Turcophobia is a mental disorder

[Sky earth]

Turcophobia is a serious mental disorder of several ethncities in the world. The symptoms are butthurtism and obssesions with Turks or Turkey. Especially Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, Persians, Germans, Austrians, Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbs and other ethncities suffer from this serious sickness. Turcophobia goes also hand in hand with Islamophobia and European supremacy racism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism

[Also]

Poor turks.

[peterselva2]

LoL... Turks have caused centuries of DESTRUCTION in many countries, and contributed a little.
That could be the reason :)

[Ars Moriendi]

Same thing people say about Anti-Jew positions.

"It doesn't matter all those people have a problem with us, we're right, they're just all collectively crazy".

[Sky earth]

LoL... Turks have caused centuries of DESTRUCTION in many countries, and contributed a little.
That could be the reason :)

Destruction? No we didn't. We contributed to culture, architecture and two world empires, the Seljuks and Ottomans.

[War Chef]

Turks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people)=/=Türks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples)

[mikhail]

http://i61.tinypic.com/2qrzh4h.jpg

[Ars Moriendi]

Turks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people)=/=Türks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples)

True.
Few people have a problem with Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan, while Turks in Anatolia are one of the most overwhelmingly disliked ethnicities.

[mikhail]

Destruction? No we didn't. We contributed to culture, architecture and two world empires, the Seljuks and Ottomans.


http://i57.tinypic.com/2wmgfid.jpg

[FeederOfRavens]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVon-azYI2w

Explain this.

[Sky earth]

http://i61.tinypic.com/2qrzh4h.jpg


Not again a Bulgarian self-hater. Embrace your Bulgaro-Turkic ancestry and don't pretend to be a Slav just because your forefathers were assimilated by them

[mikhail]

Not again a Bulgarian self-hater. Embrace your Bulgaro-Turkic ancestry and don't pretend to be a Slav just because your forefathers were assimilated by them

Bulgarians have Turkic ancestry, yes, but as for Turkish "Turks", eh, maybe not so much

Turkic person from Siberia http://i57.tinypic.com/29fq8tj.jpg

Another Turkic Person from Siberia http://i60.tinypic.com/2qxavyb.jpg

Turkic person from Kazakhstan http://i61.tinypic.com/el16xg.jpg

Another Turkic Person from Kazakhstan http://i61.tinypic.com/rje59f.jpg

Turkish person from Turkey http://i58.tinypic.com/10pn7sj.jpg

Another Turkish person from Turkey http://i57.tinypic.com/2m4bnd5.jpg

And another from Turkey http://i58.tinypic.com/2u43pmo.jpg

Funny how when confronted, you come on to me like "but we are the same, brother". You are funny, Anatolian Arab. Yeah, you're right, Bulgarians have Turkic ancestry, maybe they are more Turkic than the Turks :p

[Pennywise]

Where is Bulgaria?

[Instinct]

Well,

I can say that Turks (not educated ones especially) hate every country in neighborhood. Well, Turks hate their neighbors.

Turks use "Ermeni dölü: Armenian sperm" as an insult. Remember before elections Erdogan said on an interview on TV "They said about me that I was Georgian, and worse they said about me I was Armenian"

Even you can feel how Turkish people (uneducated ones) are nationalists and racists.

Turks shouldn't use "Kızılbaş: Qizilbash" as an insult aswell. Qizilbash is a proud word in my culture so I understand why people are angry and people are hatred because of discrimination and of course Ottoman Empire's barbaric captures in Europe and Anatolia.

Sunni Turks have said many times "Kızılbaş, Yahudi, Sabataist, Ermeni, Gavur" to insult people on the Television Channels so many times.

So, if you'd like to get some respect from people you should respect too.

[Shah-Jehan]

True.
Few people have a problem with Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan, while Turks in Anatolia are one of the most overwhelmingly disliked ethnicities.

maybe in the western world, but, Uzbeks for e.g. are hated by Pashtuns and Persians in Afghanistan, while for e.g. Armenians hate the Azerbaijani Turks.

[Kale]

Of course "Turcophobia" is a mental disorder. Why would you be AFRAID/REPULSED BY (ophobia) of TURC? Turc does not exist.

Turkophobia on the other hand...

[Queen B]

Butthurt turk is butthurt.

[Hithaeglir]

I will call my grandmother and announce to her that she is mentally ill ;D

[Guapo]

I will call my grandmother and announce to her that she is mentally ill ;D


http://youtu.be/g29UCHbJKqk xD

[Hithaeglir]

http://youtu.be/g29UCHbJKqk xD

HAHAHAHAHA!

she lost her grandfather in some jail in Turkey and she never loses the chance to say it.

[StormBringer]

"It is not a phobia if you know why you don't like it."

[Xanthias]

How can Turkophobia be an mental disorder, when it unites half the planet ?

[Guapo]

Turcophobia is a serious mental disorder of several ethncities in the world. The symptoms are butthurtism and obssesions with Turks or Turkey. Especially Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, Persians, Germans, Austrians, Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbs and other ethncities suffer from this serious sickness. Turcophobia goes also hand in hand with Islamophobia and European supremacy racism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=6294&dateline=1402804524

[Immortal Technique]

Greeks were turkish dogs

[Armenian Bishop]

Hey! My maternal grandparents came from Moush (aka Mush or Muş), and they arrived in Fresno, California, a few years before the outbreak of genocide, in 1915.

Nearly all of my distant relatives from Moush were murdered in the Armenian Genocide (1915-1923). One of them, a good swimmer, escaped and eventually raised a large family in Yerevan, Armenia, the other exceptions were 2 siblings who arrived in the USA, with my grandparents.

Many Armenians in Moush and Bitlis were burned alive in churches and other structures, and didn't even get deported into the Syrian Desert, where bones of Armenian women, children and babies were picked clean and bleached in the desert sun. So, yea, I'm a little angry about it, and that's an understatement.

[Armenian Bishop]

Destruction? No we didn't. We contributed to culture, architecture and two world empires, the Seljuks and Ottomans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXiP-vEPEJQ

My ancestral homeland, in Moush (also known as Mush, or Muş), shortly before the outbreak of the Armenian Genocide, in 1915. The Armenian community in Moush was extinguished a century ago, present day Moush is a city of Kurds and Turks. The women and children, in the video, were murdered in the Armenian Genocide (1915-1923).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzcrEKOYexw

Cultural Genocide: Ruins of Armenian Churches and Monasteries, in the regions of Moush, my ancestral homeland, reduced to rubble by Turks and Kurds, during the Armenian Genocide (1915-1923). So yea, I'm a little angry about it!

[Sky earth]

Butthurt turk is butthurt.

Butthurt Greek is butthurt since 1071. Still cyring because you lost Constantinople and Anatolia?

After 57 years we will celebrate the "Turkish Anatolia since 1000 years" celebration.

[Ars Moriendi]

Butthurt Greek is butthurt since 1071. Still cyring because you lost Constantinople and Anatolia?

They lost something directly, the rest of us lost something indirectly. The areas of the world that Turks occupied and de-culturized are now lost for the world. Nothing good comes from Anatolia now, unlike the day when Thales lived there. Constantinople is no longer an imperial city one can visit to learn something new, it's an overpopulated bazaar that can drive you insane easily.

Relishing in this destruction is a pretty wicked thing to do. Although it's a constant nowadays. Romanians enjoy degrading Transylvania and Jews make fun of the Palestinians that have lost their ancient villages and town.

Just the tide of the era I suppose.

[Shah-Jehan]

They lost something directly, the rest of us lost something indirectly. The areas of the world that Turks occupied and de-culturized are now lost for the world. Nothing good comes from Anatolia now, unlike the day when Thales lived there. Constantinople is no longer an imperial city one can visit to learn something new, it's not an overpopulated bazaar that can drive you insane easily.

Relishing in this destruction is a pretty wicked thing to do. Although it's a constant nowadays. Romanians enjoy degrading Transylvania and Jews make fun of the Palestinians that have lost their ancient villages and town.

Just the tide of the era I suppose.

Istanbul may not be an imperial city but, its' a huge cosmopolitan and cultural centre. It's the largest city in Europe and 4th largest in Asia with a population of 14 million+.

[Ars Moriendi]

Istanbul may not be an imperial city but, its' a huge cosmopolitan and cultural centre. It's the largest city in Europe and 4th largest in Asia with a population of 14 million+.

That's precisely what I said. It's an overpopulated bazaar with little too offer to a visitor, unless we're referring to the Greek legacy of the city.
Just how the entire Western coast in Anatolia is appreciated for it's Pre-Turkish legacy.

As I said, it may be the Greek's territorial and geopolitical loss, but it's the world's civilizational's loss. Not unlike US, Romania or Israel. Doing their best to make the world a worse place.

[Shah-Jehan]

That's precisely what I said. It's an overpopulated bazaar with little too offer to a visitor, unless we're referring to the Greek legacy of the city.
Just how the entire Western coast in Anatolia is appreciated for it's Pre-Turkish legacy.

As I said, it may be the Greek's territorial and geopolitical loss, but it's the world's civilizational's loss. Not unlike US, Romania or Israel. Doing their best to make the world a worse place.
I still disagree, The major historic sites of Istanbul are mostly from the Ottoman era such as the numerous mosques, hamaams, palaces, fortresses, the greek historical sites are barely remaining, mostly the Hagia Sophia (which was also renovated by Ottomans) and few minor churches. Lying side by side along the historic Istanbul, is a bustling modern megacity.
What more could one possibly want in a city?

[Queen B]

Butthurt Greek is butthurt since 1071. Still cyring because you lost Constantinople and Anatolia?
After 57 years we will celebrate the "Turkish Anatolia since 1000 years" celebration.

Let's see

1) You can't accept the fact that some people don't like you - for their own reasons.
Like if they have to like you, and if they don't, there is something wrong with their mental health:picard2:

2) I'm 30 years old. I'm not Mathusalas, neither is my family, so what happened 1000 years ago, doesn't really affect me.

3) As you can see, I have never mentioned Contantinopole in my posts. Its you (turks in general) that you mention it because is the only thing you manage to do the last 1000 years.

4) Who opened this thread? A Greek or a Turk? Its a Turk, whining like a little bitch because people don't like Turks. Yes, that's butthurtism. To the maximum level.

[Rudel]

Destruction? No we didn't. We contributed to culture, architecture and two world empires, the Seljuks and Ottomans.
How does it contradict ? Imperialism always entails a certain amount of destruction. It's neither good nor bad, it's just how it is.
I don't know why people care so much about appearing as if they were free of any sin.


What more could one possibly want in a city?
Who could possible want a disorganized bustling megacity ?

[Vlach]

They lost something directly, the rest of us lost something indirectly. The areas of the world that Turks occupied and de-culturized are now lost for the world. Nothing good comes from Anatolia now, unlike the day when Thales lived there. Constantinople is no longer an imperial city one can visit to learn something new, it's an overpopulated bazaar that can drive you insane easily.

Relishing in this destruction is a pretty wicked thing to do. Although it's a constant nowadays. Romanians enjoy degrading Transylvania and Jews make fun of the Palestinians that have lost their ancient villages and town.

Just the tide of the era I suppose.

So we fuck Transylvania since we exist? :picard2:

[Petros Houhoulis]

Turcophobia is a serious mental disorder of several ethncities in the world. The symptoms are butthurtism and obssesions with Turks or Turkey. Especially Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, Persians, Germans, Austrians, Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbs and other ethncities suffer from this serious sickness. Turcophobia goes also hand in hand with Islamophobia and European supremacy racism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism

Turk Tamerlane resulted to 17 million corpses.

Various Turkish massacres resulted to more than 100 million corpses cumulatively so far.

We are culturally superior to Turks AND Muslims.

Our civilization is superior to anything the Turks or the Muslims have created.

Race is irrelevant.

The shortest definition of Phobia is "irrational fear". The only ones irrational here are the Turks, and their sense of "honor".

Get the fuck out of Europe...

[turkojew]

as a matter of fact, turks hate greek, armenian, french and brits but turns out they dont have mental disorder?

[Xanthias]

Romanians enjoy degrading Transylvania

and you enjoy a history of suppression, forced cultural and ethnic assimilation, and call it "Great Hungaria".

[TheForeigner]

and you enjoy a history of suppression, forced cultural and ethnic assimilation, and call it "Great Hungaria".

Ars in cur pretended to be montenigren at first and acted like a superior intelectual, but he is a wannabe.

[Leliana]

Turcophobia is a serious mental disorder of several ethncities in the world. The symptoms are butthurtism and obssesions with Turks or Turkey. Especially Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, Persians, Germans, Austrians, Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbs and other ethncities suffer from this serious sickness. Turcophobia goes also hand in hand with Islamophobia and European supremacy racism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism

'Turcophobia' means fear of Turks. :picard2: I'm not afraid of Turks or any other Muslims like Arabs. I just can't stand your people, I loath and hate you. I loath and hate you for all what you have done to other people in history of mankind, I loath and hate you for your backward cultural habits, for your religion (99% of Turds are Muslim) and for your ridiculous blown-up ego when you're nothing else but a steppe country behind the butt of Europe and bordering similar 'interesting' countries like Syria, Iraq or Iran.

Turks are the most rejected immigrant group in Europe, just on par with gypsies. You deserve all of this because schizophrenia is encoded in your genomes. :p How else could it be explained that the biggest Turkish patriots, the biggest story tellers about the joys of the Ottoman Empire...reside as immigrants in 'infidel' countries like Germany, Austria, France, Britain or Italy?

Sky earth, you're just one of the many other stupid, nonsensical Turks. You live in Germany and dare to claim Turkish achievements or superiority! :D So, if Turkey is oh so great and impressive, then why are you here? Pack your bags, take your disgusting compratiots along with you and PISS OFF!

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/nikos21_2008/L_oFoBrySDBTivHdrzqCcQ.gif


Istanbul may not be an imperial city but, its' a huge cosmopolitan and cultural centre. It's the largest city in Europe and 4th largest in Asia with a population of 14 million+.
Most of Istanbul isn't located in Europe so Istanbul is no European town at all. It will be a European town again when Konstantinopel is reconquered by its rightful owners, the Byzantines, whose legitimate heirs are the Greeks.

[Trun]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2wmgfid.jpg

I completely agree with what you imply but just can't give a thumb up for this picture which was reality until a century ago.

Turds are the dogs of the universe, no wonder they chose a dog as their symbol.

(I apologize to all dog lovers for comparing their favorite animal to something as repulsive as Turds).

[Leto]

I also think Turks are not true Europeans. They may be Caucasian and even lighter than Arabs, but their culture is Islamic, not European. Turks started to migrate to European countries in the 1960-70s and now over 50% of Turks in Germany and the Netherlands actually belong to the 2nd generation. But still they don't assimilate, mainly because of Islam and nationalism. I'm not against Turkey in general, I acknowledge its economic success of the past few decades, but I'm against Turkish nationalism in Europe. Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands invited Turkish workers themselves, but no one knew at that time they would stay in the countries for long. One thing is good - Turks don't migrate to Europe so actively nowadays. On the contrary, many Turks leave Europe returning to Turkey in search of better opportunities. And their birth rates are not as high as they used to be in the past.

[Leto]

Turks are the most rejected immigrant group in Europe, just on par with gypsies.
It's partly because Turks migrating to Europe were mostly Anatolian peasants with minimal education (women were often illiterate). Turkey in the 1970s was much poorer and more rural than it is now. Educated Istanbul or Ankara Turks didn't go to work in Europe in large numbers. Children of those immigrants were growing up between two different worlds - one of their strict Muslim parents and the other of liberal and modern European cities. That's why many of them joined street gangs or embraced religious radicalism.

[Loki]

I agree - it is not a very smart philosophy.

[SKYNET]

turkic tribes against the balkan tribes


http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/goldionhammer/Balkans1877popC.gif



turkic tribes against the caucasian tribes


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Caucasus_1090_AC_de_alt.svg/1155px-Caucasus_1090_AC_de_alt.svg.png

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120616003132/althistory/images/d/d3/Ottomon_invasion.png





it isn't a mental disorder, it's the primary historical reason

[Dengizik]

Most of the Turkish people including me are oxygen waste but we have also considerable amount of good-hearted, well educated and humble people and education level in the country increasing rapidly so at least our future is might be bright and we can tolerate our past.

[Sky earth]

as a matter of fact, turks hate greek, armenian, french and brits but turns out they dont have mental disorder?

I don't hate none of these ethnic groups. I only hate retarded racists like many butthurt Europeans here in this forum

[Sky earth]

'Turcophobia' means fear of Turks. :picard2: I'm not afraid of Turks or any other Muslims like Arabs. I just can't stand your people, I loath and hate you. I loath and hate you for all what you have done to other people in history of mankind, I loath and hate you for your backward cultural habits, for your religion (99% of Turds are Muslim) and for your ridiculous blown-up ego when you're nothing else but a steppe country behind the butt of Europe and bordering similar 'interesting' countries like Syria, Iraq or Iran.

Turks are the most rejected immigrant group in Europe, just on par with gypsies. You deserve all of this because schizophrenia is encoded in your genomes. :p How else could it be explained that the biggest Turkish patriots, the biggest story tellers about the joys of the Ottoman Empire...reside as immigrants in 'infidel' countries like Germany, Austria, France, Britain or Italy?

Sky earth, you're just one of the many other stupid, nonsensical Turks. You live in Germany and dare to claim Turkish achievements or superiority! :D So, if Turkey is oh so great and impressive, then why are you here? Pack your bags, take your disgusting compratiots along with you and PISS OFF!

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/nikos21_2008/L_oFoBrySDBTivHdrzqCcQ.gif


Most of Istanbul isn't located in Europe so Istanbul is no European town at all. It will be a European town again when Konstantinopel is reconquered by its rightful owners, the Byzantines, whose legitimate heirs are the Greeks.

Typical butthurt, full of hatred and disgusting Leliana post! Should the whole world hate Germans for their endless plundering of Rome or the Holocaust? You are responsible for the WW2 and the killings in the Kzs of 11 million minorities like Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals...Does it even get more disgusting and barbarian? Stop your retarded hatred against Muslims and Turks. Germany is a multicultural country with many immigrants, Turks, Muslims, blacks, Asians. Deal with this reality in your backward Nazi village in Bavaria.

[Pennywise]

'Turcophobia' means fear of Turks. :picard2: I'm not afraid of Turks or any other Muslims like Arabs. I just can't stand your people, I loath and hate you. I loath and hate you for all what you have done to other people in history of mankind, I loath and hate you for your backward cultural habits, for your religion (99% of Turds are Muslim) and for your ridiculous blown-up ego when you're nothing else but a steppe country behind the butt of Europe and bordering similar 'interesting' countries like Syria, Iraq or Iran.

Turks are the most rejected immigrant group in Europe, just on par with gypsies. You deserve all of this because schizophrenia is encoded in your genomes. :p How else could it be explained that the biggest Turkish patriots, the biggest story tellers about the joys of the Ottoman Empire...reside as immigrants in 'infidel' countries like Germany, Austria, France, Britain or Italy?

Sky earth, you're just one of the many other stupid, nonsensical Turks. You live in Germany and dare to claim Turkish achievements or superiority! :D So, if Turkey is oh so great and impressive, then why are you here? Pack your bags, take your disgusting compratiots along with you and PISS OFF!

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/nikos21_2008/L_oFoBrySDBTivHdrzqCcQ.gif


Most of Istanbul isn't located in Europe so Istanbul is no European town at all. It will be a European town again when Konstantinopel is reconquered by its rightful owners, the Byzantines, whose legitimate heirs are the Greeks.

Hahah, when germans became a humanity teacher? :) You have no right to talk about mankind nazi.

[Grenzland]

Since nobody likes you, why don't you just go back to Turkey? :rolleyes:

"BlaBla Nazis are disliked too, bla bla you all"

Shut up and be grateful that there are nations who accept scum like you in their countries. Still...

[Selurong]

Typical butthurt, full of hatred and disgusting Leliana post! Should the whole world hate Germans for their endless plundering of Rome or the Holocaust? You are responsible for the WW2 and the killings in the Kzs of 11 million minorities like Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals...Does it even get more disgusting and barbarian? Stop your retarded hatred against Muslims and Turks. Germany is a multicultural country with many immigrants, Turks, Muslims, blacks, Asians. Deal with this reality in your backward Nazi village in Bavaria.

Actually, the German are 500x better than Turks in that they actually repented and made ammends for what they did.

So what if Germanic tribes sacked Rome and destroyed it? The Pagan Germans, experienced remorse for what they did and they converted to Christianity. And Germany's largest Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, even gave the Pope free lands in the Papal States.

So what if the German's massacred alot of people in the past? They genuinely repented of it and they even give out reparation money, which Jews abuse to the highest increments.

As a witness, we Filipinos have been victims of Axis oppression too. Yet I haven't seen Japan fork-out even 1/10th the remorse Germany expressed. So please stop yapping on Germany's mistakes because they showed genuine repentance from it.

Turks on the other hand have no sense of shame whatsoever. Unlike the Germans who converted to Christianity after they sacked Rome, upon seeing the nation's achievements...

Turks on the other hand, when they conquered a more advance civilization, Byzantium, instead of being awed and humbled by their destructive practices upon an high-culture, sought to completely eradicate that high-culture and replace it with a pig-sty of a desert nomad mentality.

Tearing down sculptures, statues, books and architecture and building Mosques on top of that.

You cannot compare Germans to Turks. Germans are human beings who feel shame when they do wrong and are full of virtuous people at heart, who were simply mislead by leaders.

The Pagan Germanic tribes were sorry when they sacked Rome and converted to Christianity. Whereas, Turks are shameless people who will go shit on a priceless pearl whenever they see it. And that was the case when the Turks who had sacked Constantinople, didn't convert to Christianity from Islam, and instead degraded a beautiful city.


You are just bitter that the Germanic Hapsburg Dynasty.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Habsburg_dominions_1700.png/800px-Habsburg_dominions_1700.png

Was the sworn enemies of the Turks and they served your asses unto you during the Battle of Lepanto, where they were part of the Holy League.


And Hapsburg Spain. Kicked your Muslim-Turk ass in the Reconquista, the Battle of Lepanto or world-wide...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Spanish_Empire_Anachronous_en.svg/1280px-Spanish_Empire_Anachronous_en.svg.png

When the Portuguese (In union with Spain then) kicked the asses of India's Mughal Empire (Which had a Turkik aristocracy) or we here kicked your Muslim asses when we openly opposed Sultan Iskander Shah (A Malay Sultan with ties to Turkik-Persian royalty) despite outnumbering us 100000 to 1.

[Bloodnigger]

If they implemented the idea of converting into orthodox christianity instead of just toying with it early on, much better things would've come out of it.

[Selurong]

Since nobody likes you, why don't you just go back to Turkey? :rolleyes:

"BlaBla Nazis are disliked too, bla bla you all"

Shut up and be grateful that there are nations who accept scum like you in their countries. Still...


German's reputation among the world is actually better than that of Turkey's. Check my previous post.

[Selurong]

If they implemented the idea of converting into orthodox christianity instead of just toying with it early on, much better things would've come out of it.

I don't know why the stupid rabies infected animals called Turks even think that they can compare to the human beings called Germans.

The Pagan Germans converted to Christianity after they sacked Rome, because they felt bad about their bad actions.

But the stupid Turks, fresh from the desert, didn't even bother to convert to Christianity after they sacked Constantinople. Even when the people there were more civilized than them.

[Alphawolf]

Hatred is the cowards revenge for being intimidated.

[mikhail]

I completely agree with what you imply but just can't give a thumb up for this picture which was reality until a century ago.

Turds are the dogs of the universe, no wonder they chose a dog as their symbol.

(I apologize to all dog lovers for comparing their favorite animal to something as repulsive as Turds).

Turkey promised Bulgaria during the 1920's that they would pay us compensation for the 500 years of occupation under the ottoman empire, so far they have paid us nothing. They have the audacity to claim that Ottoman times were better for Bulgaria, the Turks are nothing but genocidal pigs who lie and deny their crimes.

[Gustave H]

Eh, I don't have anything against Turks. Met some good ones, met some bad ones. The Aryanophobia is a worse mental disorder and a few jerks around here seem to have it. They're just jealous of mein swag. :coffee:

[Bell Beaker]

Go to Turkey. Eat the turkey!

[Cleitus]

Wow what a highly intelligent kind of propaganda...........NOT!!!

[Sky earth]

Actually, the German are 500x better than Turks in that they actually repented and made ammends for what they did.

So what if Germanic tribes sacked Rome and destroyed it? The Pagan Germans, experienced remorse for what they did and they converted to Christianity. And Germany's largest Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, even gave the Pope free lands in the Papal States.

So what if the German's massacred alot of people in the past? They genuinely repented of it and they even give out reparation money, which Jews abuse to the highest increments.

As a witness, we Filipinos have been victims of Axis oppression too. Yet I haven't seen Japan fork-out even 1/10th the remorse Germany expressed. So please stop yapping on Germany's mistakes because they showed genuine repentance from it.

Turks on the other hand have no sense of shame whatsoever. Unlike the Germans who converted to Christianity after they sacked Rome, upon seeing the nation's achievements...

Turks on the other hand, when they conquered a more advance civilization, Byzantium, instead of being awed and humbled by their destructive practices upon an high-culture, sought to completely eradicate that high-culture and replace it with a pig-sty of a desert nomad mentality.

Tearing down sculptures, statues, books and architecture and building Mosques on top of that.

You cannot compare Germans to Turks. Germans are human beings who feel shame when they do wrong and are full of virtuous people at heart, who were simply mislead by leaders.

The Pagan Germanic tribes were sorry when they sacked Rome and converted to Christianity. Whereas, Turks are shameless people who will go shit on a priceless pearl whenever they see it. And that was the case when the Turks who had sacked Constantinople, didn't convert to Christianity from Islam, and instead degraded a beautiful city.


You are just bitter that the Germanic Hapsburg Dynasty.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Habsburg_dominions_1700.png/800px-Habsburg_dominions_1700.png


Was the sworn enemies of the Turks and they served your asses unto you during the Battle of Lepanto, where they were part of the Holy League.


And Hapsburg Spain. Kicked your Muslim-Turk ass in the Reconquista, the Battle of Lepanto or world-wide...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Spanish_Empire_Anachronous_en.svg/1280px-Spanish_Empire_Anachronous_en.svg.png

When the Portuguese (In union with Spain then) kicked the asses of India's Mughal Empire (Which had a Turkik aristocracy) or we here kicked your Muslim asses when we openly opposed Sultan Iskander Shah (A Malay Sultan with ties to Turkik-Persian royalty) despite outnumbering us 100000 to 1.

Spare me your retarded stockholm syndrome behavoir please! Just because the Spaniards fucked and colonized your ancestors it doesn't mean that Manila is a romance metropolis! What did Filipinos really achieve other than to be colonized and Christianized by the Spaniards? Why was the Byzantine empire more advanced than the Seljuk empire? The Seljuks promoted astronomers and scientists like Omar Khayyam or world known poets and thinkers like Rumi whose tomb is in modern Konya. The same goes for other Turkic-ruled empires like the Mughals who built the Taj Mahal, the inofficial eighth world-wonder.

Oh and the Mughals were defeated by the Hindu Maratha empire. Your masters played no role here

[Dengizik]

Turkey promised Bulgaria during the 1920's that they would pay us compensation for the 500 years of occupation under the ottoman empire, so far they have paid us nothing. They have the audacity to claim that Ottoman times were better for Bulgaria, the Turks are nothing but genocidal pigs who lie and deny their crimes.

Your money is on the table.

[mikhail]

Spare me your retarded stockholm syndrome behavoir please! Just because the Spaniards fucked and colonized your ancestors it doesn't mean that Manila is a romance metropolis! What did Filipinos really achieve other than to be colonized and Christianized by the Spaniards? Why was the Byzantine empire more advanced than the Seljuk empire? The Seljuks promoted astronomers and scientists like Omar Khayyam or world known poets and thinkers like Rumi whose tomb is in modern Konya. The same goes for other Turkic-ruled empires like the Mughals who built the Taj Mahal, the inofficial eighth world-wonder.

Oh and the Mughals were defeated by the Hindu Maratha empire. Your masters played no role here

Sounds exactly like what the Turks did.

[Shah-Jehan]

'

Most of Istanbul isn't located in Europe so Istanbul is no European town at all. It will be a European town again when Konstantinopel is reconquered by its rightful owners, the Byzantines, whose legitimate heirs are the Greeks.

I thought Germans were good at Geography?
2/3 of Istanbul is in Europe and most of the population lives in the European part, spare me that crap by researching first, now that you are gonna' be a mom.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Map_of_the_Districts_of_Istanbul.png/1024px-Map_of_the_Districts_of_Istanbul.png

[Shah-Jehan]

Turk Tamerlane resulted to 17 million corpses.


Timur was an Uzbek, not an Anatolian/Balkan Turk.

[Instinct]

Timur was an Uzbek, not an Anatolian/Balkan Turk.

How you claim yourself as Turkic? I am curious.

If you are really Turkic none of us would classify as a "Turk".

[cally]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2wmgfid.jpg

Sad picture. :(

where is this ?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Spare me your retarded stockholm syndrome behavoir please! Just because the Spaniards fucked and colonized your ancestors it doesn't mean that Manila is a romance metropolis! What did Filipinos really achieve other than to be colonized and Christianized by the Spaniards? Why was the Byzantine empire more advanced than the Seljuk empire? The Seljuks promoted astronomers and scientists like Omar Khayyam or world known poets and thinkers like Rumi whose tomb is in modern Konya. The same goes for other Turkic-ruled empires like the Mughals who built the Taj Mahal, the inofficial eighth world-wonder.

Oh and the Mughals were defeated by the Hindu Maratha empire. Your masters played no role here

The Byzantine empire was certainly more advanced than the Seljuk empire, because the Greek scholars who fled the Byzantine empire brought the spark of the Renaissance to Europe. Because all the modern Judicial systems around the world are based upon Justinians' laws. Because all of the religious music in the Ottoman and most Catholic churches had roots in the Orthodox ecclesiastic music. There are many things you can refer that can prove the Byzantines did more than the Seljuks, but the comparison shall always be unfair because the Seljuks were very short lived. Had they persisted, Turkey would have been an entirely different country today.

The Mughals massacred up to 100 million Buddhists and Hindus from 1000 A.D. until they collapsed 500 years later. Does this ever cross your mind.

I wonder though why you are neglecting both the Ottoman Turkey AND Modern Turkey. Have you lost all faith in them?

BTW, Omar Khayyam was a Persian who had little to do with the Seljuks. Why do you claim him as if he was a Turk? Can't you find a truly Turkish scientist whatsoever???

[StormBringer]

Sad picture. :(

where is this ?


The Bulgarian martyresses by Konstantin Makovsky, a painting depicting the rape of Bulgarian women by the Bashi-bazouk during the April Uprising.Unrestrained by the regulations that governed regular soldiers in the army, they became notorious for preying on civilians.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Timur was an Uzbek, not an Anatolian/Balkan Turk.

So what if he was not an Anatolian/Balkan Turk? Some folks here claim the legacy of the Mughals because of the Taj Mahal. Were the Mughals Anatolians or Balkaners?

[Ars Moriendi]

A better question is: Who likes Turks?

I know personally of Turanists that feel they're somehow kin, even though they're overwhelmingly Hittite/Syriac/Armenian/Hellenic people that sold their identity to Altaic migrants, who never constitued more than 10-15% of the population in Anatolia. I'd wager Central Asian Turkics do feel some sympathy as well.

Everybody in the region seems to dislike them. Greeks, Kurds, Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, Persians, Russians, Balkanites of every sort (except Bosniaks and maybe Albanians), Germans/Austrians, and I've met even a fair share of Polish people who remember the Hunyady episode with fierce pride against the Turks, similar to how non-Turanist Hungarians feel. Every neighbouring country has a problem with them, with only Azerbaijan being friendly, and maybe Georgia being neutral.

To be honest, I think that outside other Turkic countries, only Israel has ever felt close to them, and that was prior to Erdogan and the AKP coming to power. Can't say if the US/UK have ever looked at them as a reliable partner or simply an useful tool to wield when needed.

[mikhail]

Sad picture. :(

where is this ?

It is a painting of 2 Bulgarian women who were victims of the Turkish suppression of the April uprising in 1877.

[Instinct]

Well, being Turk is an "identity" actually. So, if you are a muslim and support Turkism you are a Turk even if you're a pure German, Kurd or Armenian. That ideology is created during WWI and still it's popular by nationalists. So Turkish Nationalism or Pan-Turkism is pretty different than the term of "nationalism" in the world.

As you mention those people who support the ideology of Turan or Turkish Nationalism are usually converts or islamist. Why do you need willing to do something if you already have on your genetics, history or family?

Although for most of members I look very Anatolian Turkish (guess they expect me to not to love other nations): I am not a Turanist nor an Anti-Greek, Armenian, Kurd, whatever.

I told that ethnicity or roots are not important for them. In their opinion I am a Greek, Armenian or a Kurdish convert because I deeply empathy them. So, you can see how being Greek, Kurd, Laz or Armenian is just something bad in their view.

Why I do empathy? I have a different religion and est. 10 million of people are Alevis in Turkey. We have suffered many massacres by ottomans, and even burned by Islamist Nationalists during our festival in Sivas, 2nd of July 1993.

So, even having a different religion is a reason that you shouldn't exists in the country.

But also have many friends in the university who are liberal leftists or nihilists, educated people who are basicaly just a human. They are not hatred to our neighbors actually we love to discover our similarities.

Well, when we go back to my question is very simple for all Turks or non-Turks who adopt Turkic ethnicity: Empathy.

[Pennywise]

It is a painting of 2 Bulgarian women who were victims of the Turkish suppression of the April uprising in 1877.

Actually they were probably not Turkish. They might be Bulgarian or other balkan originated soldiers. Killing their own womans. How sad...

[FeederOfRavens]

Actually they were probably not Turkish. They might be Bulgarian or other balkan originated soldiers. Killing their own womans. How sad...

Actually they were part of irregular Albanian troop units know for brutality.

[FeederOfRavens]

Actually they were part of irregular Albanian troop units know for brutality.

However Turks were still the main force.

[StormBringer]

Actually they were probably not Turkish. They might be Bulgarian or other balkan originated soldiers. Killing their own womans. How sad...

The Ottomans still didn't bother to discipline them, and their "terror tactics" surely served a purpose.

[Pennywise]

However Turks were still the main force.

Nope. It's against to Ottoman Empire's military system. Ottomans had regional units. Not centrical.

[Alessio]

Bullshit clip..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVon-azYI2w

Explain this.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Actually they were probably not Turkish. They might be Bulgarian or other balkan originated soldiers. Killing their own womans. How sad...

They were probably Turks, Kurds or Albanians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashi-bazouk


A bashi-bazouk or bashibazouk (Turkish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language) başıbozuk, or delibaş, literally "damaged head", meaning "free headed", "leaderless", "disorderly") was an irregular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregular_military) soldier of the Ottoman army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_army), mostly of Albanian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_people) origin. They were particularly noted for their lack of discipline.

Although Turkish armies always contained bashi-bazouk adventurers as well as regular soldiers, the strain on the Ottoman feudal system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudal_system) caused mainly by the Empire's wide expanse required heavier reliance on irregular soldiers. They were armed and maintained by the government, but did not receive pay and did not wear uniforms or distinctive badges. They were motivated to fight mostly by expectations of plunder.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashi-bazouk#cite_note-4) Though the majority of troops fought on foot, some troops (called akinci) rode on horseback. Because of their lack of discipline, they were incapable of undertaking major military operations, but were useful for other tasks such as reconnaissance and outpost duty. However, their uncertain temper occasionally made it necessary for the Turkish regular troops to disarm them by force.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashi-bazouk#cite_note-Brittanica-3)

I think that the troops which committed those massacres were from Anatolia... This was certainly the case of the Ilinden uprising.

[mikhail]

Actually they were probably not Turkish. They might be Bulgarian or other balkan originated soldiers. Killing their own womans. How sad...

Subhuman trash, they were a mix of Turkish, Albanian, and Pomak soldiers under the command of Turkish officers, the blood of the entire Balkans is on your hands, and everyone knows it.

[Sky earth]

Well, being Turk is an "identity" actually. So, if you are a muslim and support Turkism you are a Turk even if you're a pure German, Kurd or Armenian. That ideology is created during WWI and still it's popular by nationalists. So Turkish Nationalism or Pan-Turkism is pretty different than the term of "nationalism" in the world.

As you mention those people who support the ideology of Turan or Turkish Nationalism are usually converts or islamist. Why do you need willing to do something if you already have on your genetics, history or family?

Although for most of members I look very Anatolian Turkish (guess they expect me to not to love other nations): I am not a Turanist nor an Anti-Greek, Armenian, Kurd, whatever.

I told that ethnicity or roots are not important for them. In their opinion I am a Greek, Armenian or a Kurdish convert because I deeply empathy them. So, you can see how being Greek, Kurd, Laz or Armenian is just something bad in their view.

Why I do empathy? I have a different religion and est. 10 million of people are Alevis in Turkey. We have suffered many massacres by ottomans, and even burned by Islamist Nationalists during our festival in Sivas, 2nd of July 1993.

So, even having a different religion is a reason that you shouldn't exists in the country.

But also have many friends in the university who are liberal leftists or nihilists, educated people who are basicaly just a human. They are not hatred to our neighbors actually we love to discover our similarities.

Well, when we go back to my question is very simple for all Turks or non-Turks who adopt Turkic ethnicity: Empathy.

Being Turkish is to speak Turkish as mother tongue. It doesn't matter if you're a leftist, nationalist, Pan-turkist, Islamist, Alevi, atheist or whatever. If your mother tongue is Turkish then you're a Turk it's simple as that. I don't hate Armenians, Greeks, Kurds and any other folks who had close contacts with Turks in history. What I dislike are obvious racist Anti-Turkists who want to see all Turkish people dead and Turkey dissolved. I also don't like hardcore pan-turanists who hate Greeks, Armenians, Kurds and whatever.

[Instinct]

Being Turkish is to speak Turkish as mother tongue. It doesn't matter if you're a leftist, nationalist, Pan-turkist, Islamist, Alevi, atheist or whatever. If your mother tongue is Turkish then you're a Turk it's simple as that. I don't hate Armenians, Greeks, Kurds and any other folks who had close contacts with Turks in history. What I dislike are obvious racist Anti-Turkists who want to see all Turkish people dead and Turkey dissolved. I also don't like hardcore pan-turanists who hate Greeks, Armenians, Kurds and whatever.

I don't agree with speaking Turkish is being Turkish. So, there are many Turkish people in Germany and some of their mother tongue is German language. Can we say that they are German? or do Germans consider them as "German"?

It's good to hear that we feel close to our neighbors. Well, there is no difference between a Turk identified wants to see Greeks, Kurds or Armenians dead or a Greek, German, Swedish who wants to see all the Turks or any kind of nation cleanised on the earth.

Turks only can get over it if we can make connections and try to have empathy to our neighbors. Ottoman Empire was such a big empire tried ethnic cleansing in Balkans and Anatolia against Greeks, Serbs, Armenians, and Alevis. Basicaly Ottoman Empire was a caliphate of Sunni Islam. You haven't heard about the rules about non-Muslim people in Ottoman zone? So, Turkey must be a new page for all of us by equal rights and fight against the hatred emotions. Unfortunately, by the government islamic people convert as "Neo-Ottomans or Islamists".

Nobody needs to support its own ethnic's fault, massacres or genocides.

Imagine, Europe has been collapsed after WWII and they got over nationalism, now you can go all the countries in Schengen Zone. Imagine, if we could go to our neighbors without any problem. A Greek moves to Turkey as an expat, a Turk or a Kurd living in Turkey moves to Greece to study or whatever. An Armenian moves to Mush for studying?

Why the area of Middle East is awful? It's all because of highly Nationalism and Islamism.

[Shah-Jehan]

How you claim yourself as Turkic? I am curious.

If you are really Turkic none of us would classify as a "Turk".

I am not Turkish or really Turkic but, I am an avid follower of the "Turko-Iranian tradition" plus, my maternal ancestors (maternal grandfather) descend from Shah Shuja who was an exiled Mughal prince who left a lot of his descendants in a place called Satkania (corruption of the word Sat Khaniye literally meaning the place of the 60 khans)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Shuja_(Mughal_prince)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satkania_Upazila

So what if he was not an Anatolian/Balkan Turk? Some folks here claim the legacy of the Mughals because of the Taj Mahal. Were the Mughals Anatolians or Balkaners?
Those folks are not using logic if they are, it is not a Turkish legacy but, it is pretty much a Turkic legacy.


It is a painting of 2 Bulgarian women who were victims of the Turkish suppression of the April uprising in 1877.
The painting is historically false (not denying or agreeing with the incident), seriously, a black Ottoman soldier in the balkans in the late 19th century?!

[mikhail]

I am not Turkish or really Turkic but, I am an avid follower of the "Turko-Iranian tradition" plus, my maternal ancestors (maternal grandfather) descend from Shah Shuja who was an exiled Mughal prince who left a lot of his descendants in a place called Satkania (corruption of the word Sat Khaniye literally meaning the place of the 60 khans)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Shuja_(Mughal_prince)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satkania_Upazila

Those folks are not using logic if they are, it is not a Turkish legacy but, it is pretty much a Turkic legacy.


The painting is historically false (not denying or agreeing with the incident), seriously, a black Ottoman soldier in the balkans in the late 19th century?!

Muslim North Africans from occupied Ottoman territories who migrated to other parts of the Ottoman empire through their career in the military. It wasn't THAT uncommon.

[King Claus]

Turkophobia should be an oxymoron, because otherwise people shouldn't be naziphobic as well.

[Shah-Jehan]

Muslim North Africans from occupied Ottoman territories who migrated to other parts of the Ottoman empire through their career in the military. It wasn't THAT uncommon.

The coast of North Africa was ruled by the Ottomans and blacks were not even present in that part. It is pure fantasy of the artist, much like how some western artists used to envision Harems as a sex-palace or brothel when it was only a secure place for women of high authority.

[FeederOfRavens]

The coast of North Africa was ruled by the Ottomans and blacks were not even present in that part. It is pure fantasy of the artist, much like how some western artists used to envision Harems as a sex-palace or brothel when it was only a secure place for women of high authority.

Blacks in orientalist pictures are meant to be Moors. They exaggerated the Moors darkness to differentiate them from Europeans. Medieval chronicles also exaggerated the dark colour of Moors.

[Shah-Jehan]

Blacks in orientalist pictures are meant to be Moors. They exaggerated the Moors darkness to differentiate them from Europeans. Medieval chronicles also exaggerated the dark colour of Moors.

Arabs were barely even in Ottoman armies till WWI and some campaigns in Egypt/Syria (definitely not in Balkans). No North Africans either, even most of the garrisoned Ottoman force in North Africa were composed of Turkish soldiers and janissaries.

[FeederOfRavens]

Arabs were barely even in Ottoman armies till WWI and some campaigns in Egypt/Syria (definitely not in Balkans). No North Africans either, even most of the garrisoned Ottoman force in North Africa were composed of Turkish soldiers and janissaries.

Do you really think the average French artist cared?

[Shah-Jehan]

Do you really think the average French artist cared?

True. Most artists from that era and even now do not really care about intricate historical details.

[mikhail]

The coast of North Africa was ruled by the Ottomans and blacks were not even present in that part. It is pure fantasy of the artist, much like how some western artists used to envision Harems as a sex-palace or brothel when it was only a secure place for women of high authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro_Turks

There did also exist black Bashi Bazouk Ottoman soldiers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashi-bazouk

[mikhail]

True. Most artists from that era and even now do not really care about intricate historical details.

The artist was Russian if I remember correctly.

[Sir_Kat]

lol I have Turkocentrism.

so did Kaiser Wilhelm II.

[Shah-Jehan]

The artist was Russian if I remember correctly.

He was a great artist.

[Pennywise]

lol I have Turkocentrism.

so did Kaiser Wilhelm II.

lol you too. welcome to our bloody club!

[Sir_Kat]

lol you too. welcome to our bloody club!

haha I am proud to be a Turk :)

I consider myself descendant of the Assyrians.

[Pennywise]

haha I am proud to be a Turk :)

I consider myself descendant of the Assyrians.

No actually we are descented from reptilians :/ apparently you misunderstood everything.

[Sir_Kat]

No actually we are descented from reptilians :/ apparently you misunderstood everything.

lol no I said I am descended from Assyrians....who were descended from reptilians? First Iv'e heard of that.

[Shah-Jehan]

No actually we are descented from reptilians :/ apparently you misunderstood everything.

It's a disproven theory he's talking about, British people being Hebrews and Germans being Assyrians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

[Pennywise]

lol no I said I am descended from Assyrians....who were descended from reptilians? First Iv'e heard of that.

nevermind. What is your business with turks and who did you make a muslim?

[Sky earth]

The Byzantine empire was certainly more advanced than the Seljuk empire, because the Greek scholars who fled the Byzantine empire brought the spark of the Renaissance to Europe. Because all the modern Judicial systems around the world are based upon Justinians' laws. Because all of the religious music in the Ottoman and most Catholic churches had roots in the Orthodox ecclesiastic music. There are many things you can refer that can prove the Byzantines did more than the Seljuks, but the comparison shall always be unfair because the Seljuks were very short lived. Had they persisted, Turkey would have been an entirely different country today.

The Mughals massacred up to 100 million Buddhists and Hindus from 1000 A.D. until they collapsed 500 years later. Does this ever cross your mind.

I wonder though why you are neglecting both the Ottoman Turkey AND Modern Turkey. Have you lost all faith in them?

BTW, Omar Khayyam was a Persian who had little to do with the Seljuks. Why do you claim him as if he was a Turk? Can't you find a truly Turkish scientist whatsoever???

Modern Turkey and Anatolian Turks are basically the legacy of Seljuks and Ottomans. The Seljuk empire wasn't really short lived as its successor sultanates lived further after the collapse of the Great Seljuk Empire.

Mughals massacred 100 million Buddhists and Hindus? Source please! At the time of Mughal empire Buddhists were an insignificant population anyways. The Mughals were supporters of arts, culture and poetry. Their architecture left many buildings in India including the famous Taj Mahal and the 177 million Muslims in India are the legacy of Mughals. Stop your butthurtness and live with these facts! Oh and learn history please! The Mughal empire was founded in the 16th century and not in 1000 AD

Omar Khayyam flourished under the Seljuk court so he has very much to do with Turks.

[Scholarios]

For all the irrational hatered of Turks, Turks have more hatered of Serbs, Armenians, Greeks- and all of the West. The events of the last years have proved this. " Operation Atilla" proved this, Hrant Dink proved this, the bullshit demagogy about Israel that they recently picked up after years of kissing Israeli ass proves this. The only ones who can compete on this hate are Armenians- and they're pretty much totally justified in being pissed.

Otherwise, not all Turks, but a significant portion passively goes along with the insecurity and butthurt from 90 years ago.

[Sky earth]

I am not Turkish or really Turkic but, I am an avid follower of the "Turko-Iranian tradition" plus, my maternal ancestors (maternal grandfather) descend from Shah Shuja who was an exiled Mughal prince who left a lot of his descendants in a place called Satkania (corruption of the word Sat Khaniye literally meaning the place of the 60 khans)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Shuja_(Mughal_prince)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satkania_Upazila

Those folks are not using logic if they are, it is not a Turkish legacy but, it is pretty much a Turkic legacy.


The painting is historically false (not denying or agreeing with the incident), seriously, a black Ottoman soldier in the balkans in the late 19th century?!

Do you speak Persian? What do you mean with Turko-Iranian tradtition? Indo-Islamic dynasties like Delhi Sultanate, Deccan Sultanate, Mughals, Ghurids....?

[Ars Moriendi]

Do you speak Persian? What do you mean with Turko-Iranian tradtition? Indo-Islamic dynasties like Delhi Sultanate, Deccan Sultanate, Mughals, Ghurids....?

I suppose he's refering to Persian dynasties with partial Turkic (language) origins, such as the Safavids or the Qajar.

[Faklon]

Seeing Turkey's modern politics and "bipolar" stances on things,one shouldn't even go digging up history to show some basic despise to the entity.

[Grenzland]

It's nice to see that you are online at 3 am, Sky earth.

Living on welfare?

[Borna]

Turks are cancer of Europe. They have always been.

I don't get why can't they understand one simple fact - You are immigrants, no one like immigrants, specially Muslim immigrants.
You never done anything positive so Europeans should love you.

[Selurong]

Spare me your retarded stockholm syndrome behavoir please! Just because the Spaniards fucked and colonized your ancestors it doesn't mean that Manila is a romance metropolis! What did Filipinos really achieve other than to be colonized and Christianized by the Spaniards? Why was the Byzantine empire more advanced than the Seljuk empire? The Seljuks promoted astronomers and scientists like Omar Khayyam or world known poets and thinkers like Rumi whose tomb is in modern Konya. The same goes for other Turkic-ruled empires like the Mughals who built the Taj Mahal, the inofficial eighth world-wonder.

Oh and the Mughals were defeated by the Hindu Maratha empire. Your masters played no role here

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6741445632/h8ADD73E0/

[Selurong]

http://a3.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Purple/v4/34/89/57/34895738-8ab5-5570-42e6-ac26769dd65e/screen480x480.jpeg

[Sir_Kat]

It's a disproven theory he's talking about, British people being Hebrews and Germans being Assyrians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

Disproven?

[Sir_Kat]

nevermind. What is your business with turks and who did you make a muslim?

I love Turkey and Turkish history =)

[Cleitus]

Being Turkish is a Genetical and Racial disorder.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Modern Turkey and Anatolian Turks are basically the legacy of Seljuks and Ottomans. The Seljuk empire wasn't really short lived as its successor sultanates lived further after the collapse of the Great Seljuk Empire.

Either way, neither of them produced someone worthy of note. This is proved by the fact that you are claiming the legacy of Persians as yours!!!


Mughals massacred 100 million Buddhists and Hindus? Source please!



http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/02/make-way-for-mughalistan/ (http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/02/make-way-for-mughalistan/)


The Hindu genocide at the hands of Islam lasted more than a thousand years, and continues in a reduced fashion to this day. It is the largest genocide in recorded history, with many millions of Hindus — possibly over a hundred million — slaughtered by the Muslim invaders, and countless millions more enslaved or forcibly converted to Islam.

http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&id=3312:islams-indian-slave-trade-part-i-in-islams-genocidal-slavery-


The cost of the Muslim invasions is massive in lives, wealth and culture. Estimates suggest that 60-80 MILLION died at the hands of Muslim invaders and rulers between 1000 and 1525 alone (ie over 500 years-the population FELL). (Lal cited in Khan p 216) Impossible you think? In the war of Independence of Bangladesh, 1971, the Muslim Pakistani army killed 1.5-3 million people (mainly Muslims ...) in just 9 MONTHS. (Khan p 216). The world looked the other way—but don’t we always when it’s Muslims committing the violence!

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/biggest-holocaust-world-historywhitewashed-history


The biggest holocaust in World History...whitewashed from history

Mon, 16/04/2012 - 05:00
The genocide suffered by the Hindus of India at the hands of Arab, Turkish, Mughal and Afghan occupying forces for a period of 800 years is as yet formally unrecognised by the World.

The only similar genocide in the recent past was that of the Jewish people at the hands of the Nazis; of the Africans during the slave trade and also the almost total extermination of native populations like the Aboriginal people in Australia and the native Indians, Aztecs, Incas, etc. in North and South America.

The holocaust of the Hindus in India was of even greater proportions, the only difference was that it continued for 800 years, till the brutal regimes were effectively overpowered in a life and death struggle by the Sikhs in the Panjab and the Hindu Maratha armies in other parts of India in the late 1700's.
We have elaborate literary evidence of the World’s biggest holocaust from existing historical contemporary eyewitness accounts. The historians and biographers of the invading armies and subsequent rulers of India have left quite detailed records of the atrocities they committed in their day-to-day encounters with India’s Hindus.

These contemporary records boasted about and glorified the crimes that were committed - and the genocide of tens of millions of Hindus, mass rapes of Hindu women and the destruction of thousands of ancient Hindu / Buddhist temples and libraries have been well documented and provide solid proof of the World's biggest holocaust.

Quotes from modern historians

Dr. Koenraad Elst in his article “Was There an Islamic Genocide of Hindus?” states:

“There is no official estimate of the total death toll of Hindus at the hands of Islam. A first glance at important testimonies by Muslim chroniclers suggests that, over 13 centuries and a territory as vast as the Subcontinent, Muslim Holy Warriors easily killed more Hindus than the 6 million of the Holocaust. Ferishtha lists several occasions when the Bahmani sultans in central India (1347-1528) killed a hundred thousand Hindus, which they set as a minimum goal whenever they felt like punishing the Hindus; and they were only a third-rank provincial dynasty.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/sites/default/files/news/temples_destroyed.jpgThe biggest slaughters took place during the raids of Mahmud Ghaznavi (ca. 1000 CE); during the actual conquest of North India by Mohammed Ghori and his lieutenants (1192 ff.); and under the Delhi Sultanate (1206-1526)."

He also writes in his book "Negation in India":

"The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter."

Will Durant argued in his 1935 book "The Story of Civilisation: Our Oriental Heritage" (page 459):

"The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period."

Francois Gautier in his book 'Rewriting Indian History' (1996) wrote:
"The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese."

Writer Fernand Braudel wrote in A History of Civilisations (1995), that Islamic rule in India as a

"colonial experiment" was "extremely violent", and "the Muslims could not rule the country except by systematic terror. Cruelty was the norm – burnings, summary executions, crucifixions or impalements, inventive tortures. Hindu temples were destroyed to make way for mosques. On occasion there were forced conversions. If ever there were an uprising, it was instantly and savagely repressed: houses were burned, the countryside was laid waste, men were slaughtered and women were taken as slaves."

Alain Danielou in his book, Histoire de l' Inde writes:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/sites/default/files/news/for_the_sake_of_islam.jpg"From the time Muslims started arriving, around 632 AD, the history of India becomes a long, monotonous series of murders, massacres, spoliations, and destructions. It is, as usual, in the name of 'a holy war' of their faith, of their sole God, that the barbarians have destroyed civilizations, wiped out entire races."

Irfan Husain in his article “Demons from the Past” observes:

“While historical events should be judged in the context of their times, it cannot be denied that even in that bloody period of history, no mercy was shown to the Hindus unfortunate enough to be in the path of either the Arab conquerors of Sindh and south Punjab, or the Central Asians who swept in from Afghanistan…The Muslim heroes who figure larger than life in our history books committed some dreadful crimes. Mahmud of Ghazni, Qutb-ud-Din Aibak, Balban, Mohammed bin Qasim, and Sultan Mohammad Tughlak, all have blood-stained hands that the passage of years has not cleansed..Seen through Hindu eyes, the Muslim invasion of their homeland was an unmitigated disaster.

"Their temples were razed, their idols smashed, their women raped, their men killed or taken slaves. When Mahmud of Ghazni entered Somnath on one of his annual raids, he slaughtered all 50,000 inhabitants. Aibak killed and enslaved hundreds of thousands. The list of horrors is long and painful. These conquerors justified their deeds by claiming it was their religious duty to smite non-believers. Cloaking themselves in the banner of Islam, they claimed they were fighting for their faith when, in reality, they were indulging in straightforward slaughter and pillage...”

A sample of contemporary eyewitness accounts of the invaders and rulers, during the Indian conquests

The Afghan ruler Mahmud al-Ghazni invaded India no less than seventeen times between 1001 - 1026 AD. The book ‘Tarikh-i-Yamini’ - written by his secretary documents several episodes of his bloody military campaigns : "The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously [at the Indian city of Thanesar] that the stream was discoloured, notwithstanding its purity, and people were unable to drink it…the infidels deserted the fort and tried to cross the foaming river...but many of them were slain, taken or drowned... Nearly fifty thousand men were killed."

http://www.bnp.org.uk/sites/default/files/news/banner_of_islam.jpgIn the contemporary record - ' Taj-ul-Ma’asir' by Hassn Nizam-i-Naishapuri, it is stated that when Qutb-ul- Din Aibak (of Turko - Afghan origin and the First Sultan of Delhi 1194-1210 AD) conquered Meerat, he demolished all the Hindu temples of the city and erected mosques on their sites. In the city of Aligarh, he converted Hindu inhabitants to Islam by the sword and beheaded all those who adhered to their own religion.

The Persian historian Wassaf writes in his book 'Tazjiyat-ul-Amsar wa Tajriyat ul Asar' that when the Alaul-Din Khilji (An Afghan of Turkish origin and second ruler of the Khilji Dynasty in India 1295-1316 AD) captured the city of Kambayat at the head of the gulf of Cambay, he killed the adult male Hindu inhabitants for the glory of Islam, set flowing rivers of blood, sent the women of the country with all their gold, silver, and jewels, to his own home, and made about twentv thousand Hindu maidens his private slaves.

This ruler once asked his spiritual advisor (or ‘Qazi’) as to what was the Islamic law prescribed for the Hindus. The Qazi replied:

“Hindus are like the mud; if silver is demanded from them, they must with the greatest humility offer gold. If a Mohammadan desires to spit into a Hindu’s mouth, the Hindu should open it wide for the purpose. God created the Hindus to be slaves of the Mohammadans. The Prophet hath ordained that, if the Hindus do not accept Islam, they should be imprisoned, tortured, finally put to death, and their property confiscated.”

Timur was a Turkic conqueror and founder of the Timurid Dynasty. Timur's Indian campaign (1398 – 1399 AD) was recorded in his memoirs, collectively known as 'Tuzk-i-Timuri.' In them, he vividly described probably the greatest gruesome act in the entire history of the world – where 100,000 Hindu prisoners of war in his camp were executed in a very short space of time. Timur after taking advice from his entourage says in his memoirs :

"they said that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty.
"In fact, no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword’

Timur thereupon resolved to put them to death. He proclaimed :

"throughout the camp that every man who has infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasir-ud-din Umar, a counselor and a man of learning, who, in all his life had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives".

http://www.bnp.org.uk/sites/default/files/news/confiscated.jpgDuring his campaign in India - Timur describes the scene when his army conquered the Indian city of Delhi :

"In a short space of time all the people in the [Delhi] fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers.
"They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground....All these infidel Hindus were slain, their women and children, and their property and goods became the spoil of the victors. I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death."

The Mughal emperor Babur (who ruled India from 1526 -1530 AD) writing in his memoirs called the 'Baburnama' - wrote : " In AH 934 (2538 C.E.) I attacked Chanderi and by the grace of Allah captured it in a few hours. We got the infidels slaughtered and the place which had been Daru'l-Harb (nation of non-muslims) for years was made into a Daru'l-Islam (a muslim nation)."
In Babur's own words in a poem about killing Hindus (From the 'Baburnama' ) he wrote :

"For the sake of Islam I became a wanderer,
I battled infidels and Hindus,
I determined to become a martyr
Thank God I became a Killer of Non-Muslims!"

The atrocities of the Mughal ruler Shah Jahan (who ruled India between 1628 - 1658 AD) are mentioned in the contemporary record called : 'Badshah Nama, Qazinivi & Badshah Nama , Lahori' and goes on to state : "When Shuja was appointed as governor of Kabul he carried on a ruthless war in the Hindu territory beyond Indus...The sword of Islam yielded a rich crop of converts....Most of the women (to save their honour) burnt themselves to death. Those captured were distributed among Muslim Mansabdars (Noblemen)"

The Afghan ruler Ahmad Shah Abdali attacked India in 1757 AD and made his way to the holy Hindu city of Mathura, the Bethlehem of the Hindus and birthplace ofKrishna.

The atrocities that followed are recorded in the contemporary chronicle called : 'Tarikh-I-Alamgiri' :

"Abdali's soldiers would be paid 5 Rupees (a sizeable amount at the time) for every enemy head brought in. Every horseman had loaded up all his horses with the plundered property, and atop of it rode the girl-captives and the slaves. The severed heads were tied up in rugs like bundles of grain and placed on the heads of the captives...Then the heads were stuck upon lances and taken to the gate of the chief minister for payment.
"It was an extraordinary display! Daily did this manner of slaughter and plundering proceed. And at night the shrieks of the women captives who were being raped, deafened the ears of the people...All those heads that had been cut off were built into pillars, and the captive men upon whose heads those bloody bundles had been brought in, were made to grind corn, and then their heads too were cut off. These things went on all the way to the city of Agra, nor was any part of the country spared."

Why we should remember

"Holocaust Memorial Day (HMD) is the international day of remembrance for the victims of the Holocaust and of other genocides" (Holocaust Memorial Day Trust)

The biggest holocaust in World History has been whitewashed from history.

When we hear the word HOLOCAUST most of us think immediately of the Jewish holocaust. Today, with increased awareness and countless cinema films and television documentaries - many of us are also aware of the Holocaust of the Native American peoples, the genocide of the Armenian peoples in the Ottoman Empire, and the millions of African lives lost during the Atlantic slave trade.

The World seems to either ignore or just does not seem to care about the many millions of lives lost during the 800 - year long holocaust of Hindus in India.

The Indian historian Professor K.S. Lal estimates that the Hindu population in India decreased by 80 million between 1000 AD and 1525 AD, an extermination unparalleled in World history. This slaughter of millions of people occurred over regular periods during many centuries of Arab, Afghan, Turkish and Mughal rule in India.

Many Indian heroes emerged during these dark times – including the 10th Sikh Guru - Guru Gobind Singh and also the Hindu Maratha king – Shivaji Maratha – who led the resistance against this tyranny and eventually led to its defeat by the late 1700s - after centuries of death and destruction.

The modern World today is facing a global threat from organizations and groups of terrorists such as the Taliban and Al-Qaeeda - whose ideology is chillingly similar to that of the perpetrators of the World’s biggest holocaust in India. Also ironically – these terrorist groups are growing and launching attacks in exactly those areas that suffered extensively during India’s holocaust. Let us hope that the bloody lessons of the past are learnt so that history does not even have the remotest chance of repeating itself.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bibliography, Articles and Links:
Negationism in India, by Dr Koenrad Elst. (Voice of India, New Delhi.)

“Was There an Islamic Genocide of Hindus?” (article) by Dr. Koenraad Elst (http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/irin/genocide.html)

Rewriting Indian History by Francois Gautier (Vikas Publishing House, New Delhi 1996)

‘‘Aurangzeb, as he was according to Mughal Records’’(An exhibition) by Francois Gautier’s Trust : ‘FACT – India’ URL(http://www.aurangzeb.info/)

The Story of Civilization. Vol. 1: Our Oriental Heritage by Will Durant (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1935.)

A History of Civilisations by Fernand Braudel (Penguin Books, New York 1995)

Histoire de l'Inde, by Jean Danielou. (Editions Fayard, Paris.)

Growth of Muslim population in India (A.D. 1000-1800) by K.S. Lal. (Voice of India, New Delhi.)

“Demons from the Past” (article in the ‘Daily Times’, Pakistan August 30, 2004) by Irfan Husain (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-8-2004_pg3_4)

The 'Hindu Wisdom' website : http://thedevil.com/The_Hindu_Holocaust_by_Muslims/Islamic_Onslaught.htm

stephen-knapp.com website : http://www.stephen-knapp.com/islamic_destruction_of_hindu_temples.htm





The Hindu Holocaust Museum website : http://hinduholocaust.com/HinduHolocaustMuseum.htm




At the time of Mughal empire Buddhists were an insignificant population anyways.

Yes, you massacred way more Hindus than Buddhists or Sikhs. So what?


The Mughals were supporters of arts, culture and poetry. Their architecture left many buildings in India including the famous Taj Mahal and the 177 million Muslims in India are the legacy of Mughals.

As a modern Indian politician put it: The Taj Mahal is being celebrated every day, but few benefit from its' existed. The humble railroad that the British built serves millions of people every day, but nobody takes notice! Furthermore, despite being described as "Mongol architecture", no building as the Taj Mahal exists anywhere in Mongolia, or any Turkish lands. The building was built by Indians according to the Indian standards, but just happened to be commissioned for the sake of a conqueror with Turkish roots!


Stop your butthurtness and live with these facts! Oh and learn history please! The Mughal empire was founded in the 16th century and not in 1000 AD

I got a bit confused because the massacre of the Indian people begun long before the Mughal empire. The Arabs started it, the Turks took over around 1000 A.D. and they kept up for a long time, until the last Mughal rulers ceased to be of Turkic origin.


Omar Khayyam flourished under the Seljuk court so he has very much to do with Turks.

He has absolutely nothing to do with the Turks. He was a Persian, who wrote in Persian and the British translated his works straight from Persian. The Seljuks just happened to have conquered Persia at the time, but their impact was superficial at best. Ironically, you Turks have not produced a single person more notable than Omar Khayyam, and this makes your claims even more ridiculous!

Either you like it, the Persians had high culture before, during and after their submission to the Seljuks. Even when the Ancient Greeks called them Barbarians, they were civilized.

[Sir_Kat]

It's a disproven theory he's talking about, British people being Hebrews and Germans being Assyrians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism


Whenever a German calls himself Deutsch, he is saying he is Tiw’s or
Asshur’s son — an Assyrian.

[Loki]

I like Turkish people a lot.

[Pennywise]

I like Turkish people a lot.

yeah, why is that? and why atatürk is your hero? please tell us, I'am wondering.

[Armenian Bishop]

Destruction? No we didn't. We contributed to culture, architecture and two world empires, the Seljuks and Ottomans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-oXpWYzsU

Ripping Off Armenian Music, and then calling it Turkish, doesn't magically transform it into Turkish music. The same is true for every aspect of Armenian Civilization, which was conveniently obliterated in Western Armenia (present day Eastern Turkey), a century ago.

[Loki]

yeah, why is that? and why atatürk is your hero? please tell us, I'am wondering.

Yes. Ataturk is, to me, one of the greatest politicians/leaders of all time. Also I'd love to visit Istanbul, Izmir, Gobekli Tepe and other places in Turkey. The Turks can be admired for many things. They seem to be cool people as well, and I like their secularist mindset (of course, there are many religious ones as well).

[Pennywise]

Yes. Ataturk is, to me, one of the greatest politicians/leaders of all time. Also I'd love to visit Istanbul, Izmir, Gobekli Tepe and other places in Turkey. The Turks can be admired for many things. They seem to be cool people as well, and I like their secularist mindset (of course, there are many religious ones as well).

Interesting. Usually Germans hate Turks. (Include here) But you're a both Russian and Chinese nationalist German. (Weird) Loving Turks is not supposed be suprising I guess....

[Loki]

Interesting. Usually Germans hate Turks. (Include here) But you're a both Russian and Chinese nationalist German. (Weird) Loving Turks is not supposed be suprising I guess....

The Germans who hate Turks are mainly young, uninformed ones who don't have a good grasp of history yet. Germans used to get along very well with Turks indeed. Germany and Turkey (the OE) were allied in WW1. Hitler also spoke well of them.

[Pennywise]

The Germans who hate Turks are mainly young, uninformed ones who don't have a good grasp of history yet. Germans used to get along very well with Turks indeed. Germany and Turkey (the OE) were allied in WW1. Hitler also spoke well of them.

True, I noticed that too.

[Linet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-oXpWYzsU

Ripping Off Armenian Music, and then calling it Turkish, doesn't magically transform it into Turkish music. The same is true for every aspect of Armenian Civilization, which was conveniently obliterated in Western Armenia (present day Eastern Turkey), a century ago.

They ripped off the Greek dances of Pontus and they claim them as their traditional dances, the Armenian music, the Byzantine kitchen and architecture and they called them Turkish-Othoman....is not like they created anythign to show....so ripping off everything and present it later as their own is the only way for them, since they dont want to be sincere about their past. But it works well for them, since is tiring to tell them all the time and about everything that what they claim as theirs isnt theirs at all.....plus they spam it so.....in the end you just quit and let them talk....

[Queen B]

What a logic :picard2: If someone doesn't like Turks either has a mental disorder or he is uninformed.

[Graus]

Turcophobia is an oxymoron, since a phobia is by definition irrational.

[Kastrioti1443]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2wmgfid.jpg

There were no negro bashi buzuks... however, that picure describes very well the ottoman legacy in balkans.

[Linet]

What a logic :picard2: If someone doesn't like Turks either has a mental disorder or he is uninformed.

Actually in order to like them, you must either be uninformed either a very forgiving-forgetfull person (and brave since they repeat the same atrocities every few decades)....

[RussiaPrussia]

Istanbul may not be an imperial city but, its' a huge cosmopolitan and cultural centre. It's the largest city in Europe and 4th largest in Asia with a population of 14 million+.

moscow is larger

[Linet]

Istanbul may not be an imperial city but, its' a huge cosmopolitan and cultural centre. It's the largest city in Europe and 4th largest in Asia with a population of 14 million+.

If culture goes by the numbers, then India of Today is the biggest cultural center every! http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/crazy-monkey/crazy-monkey-emoticon-041.gif?1292792389

[Styrian Mujo]

Wile the Ottoman empire had mostly if not wholly negative influence in the Balkans. The memory of the Turkish incursions in the Balkans is well in inprinted in the folklore of the Balkan people.

[Queen B]

Actually in order to like them, you must either be uninformed either a very forgiving-forgetfull person (and brave since they repeat the same atrocities every few decades)....

Come on Linet, what are you talking about ?

Shouldn't all Armenians love them for butchering over a million of them? Their families, their forefathers, all..
Shouldn't Greeks love them for the pogrom of 55? For the genocide of over 350.000 of Pontics? For destroying everything they owned in Smyrna?
Shouldn't Cypriots love the shit out of them, for butchering thousands, illegally occupy half of the island for 40 years and being hated from both GCyprios and TCyprios?
Shouldn't all the Balkans have the best memory of opression, black years, and the total lack of delelopment while the rest of the Europe was thriving?
Shouldn't Germans love the fact that they are parasiting their country by living on wellfare and refuse to adapt to their society and rules?

I mean, what's not to love ? :confused:

[Pennywise]

They ripped off the Greek dances of Pontus and they claim them as their traditional dances, the Armenian music, the Byzantine kitchen and architecture and they called them Turkish-Othoman....is not like they created anythign to show....so ripping off everything and present it later as their own is the only way for them, since they dont want to be sincere about their past. But it works well for them, since is tiring to tell them all the time and about everything that what they claim as theirs isnt theirs at all.....plus they spam it so.....in the end you just quit and let them talk....

The fact is, noone believe this except few Greek nationalist and Turkish haters... So, your "superiror culture" claims make no sense.

[Petros Houhoulis]

The Germans who hate Turks are mainly young, uninformed ones who don't have a good grasp of history yet. Germans used to get along very well with Turks indeed. Germany and Turkey (the OE) were allied in WW1. Hitler also spoke well of them.

Actually they are very well informed, because they live at today, not at 5 decades ago or 10 decades ago. If they were stuck at that mentality, they would have to hate the French and the British, who were their enemies back then.

Nowadays, they know why they hate people:

https://www.todayszaman.com/columnist/gokhan-bacik/turkey-humiliates-germany-why_346839.html


GÖKHAN BACIKg.bacik@todayszaman.com
http://cdncms.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/columnists/g-bacik-b.png



May 04, 2014, Sunday
Turkey humiliates Germany: Why?

Developments in Turkey have reached a surreal level. The question “What next?” has lost all meaning, as the next step might be something you could never imagine. Developments during the recent visit of the German president, Joachim Gauck, deserve to be treated as a case study of how Turkey has become a surreal country.

Prominent Turkish politicians and intellectuals accused Herr Gauck of “major criminal” offenses such as “being a pastor.” According to the accusation, he is a “pastor,” so he must have some bad intentions towards Turkey. The Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, commenting on Herr Gauck publicly, said, “He still thinks he is a pastor.” Accusing someone of being a pastor might symbolize the established mental habit of conspiracy theories, as many Turks believe that clerics were behind the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

But how should we analyze Turkey's attempt to humiliate the German president? Is it correct, and is it useful for Turkey? Germany is Turkey's leading trade partner. It is Germany whose Patriot missiles protect the Turkish border from Bashar al-Assad's army. But forget these “realistic facts.” Is this a polite way of receiving a visiting president? Aren't Turks proud of their polite treatment of guests? We may dislike what Herr Gauck said in Turkey. However, aren't there better ways of reacting to that? More importantly, why did Turkey behave as it did?

Several current dynamics in Turkey can explain these recent developments. One should mention arrogance first. Arrogance reigns in Turkish politics now. Prominent Turkish politicians, and many others inspired by them, believe they are so powerful that no other actor can punish them. Moreover, they also believe they are right to the point that they cannot make mistakes. Thus, for the first time in the modern history of Turkey, words such as “silly,” “stupid,” “vampire” and “betrayer” are employed on a daily basis against those who criticize the government. This psychological superiority syndrome naturally affects foreign policy thinking. It is this simple arrogance that made Turkish politicians attempt to humiliate German President Gauck; they sincerely believe that Turkey has the right and power to discipline Germany.

The second fact is the emerging set of special conspiracy theories about Germany. Many Turks from Islamist and secular backgrounds have chosen Germany as the pivotal center of their conspiracy theories. There is a systematic Germany-centered conspiracy theory in Turkey. This thinking has been consolidating over the last three years. Actors link any unwanted development in Turkey to Germany. In every period of Turkish history, there has been a “foreign enemy,” strong or vague. We are receiving signals today that Germany is likely to be Turkey's new “foreign enemy.” One frequently hears references to Germany in conspiracy theories: “It is Germany that does not want Turkey to develop,” “It is Germany that does not want Turkey to have a strong railway system” and “It is Germany that was behind the Gezi Park events.”

However, there is also a Machiavellian logic behind Turkey's assault on Germany. In Turkish politics, politicians traditionally need domestic and foreign “enemies” to survive. Today, putting the blame on domestic and foreign targets has become an essential part of political survival. Millions believe the Turkish government is under attack from foreign powers and that they therefore should support it. Germany, interestingly, is “eligible” to be Turkey's new foreign enemy focal point. Pragmatic Turkish politicians prefer to make Germany the focal point rather than the US. An assault on the US is not equally lucrative in domestic politics, and it is a risky foreign policy.



Finally, one should not forget the Turks living in Germany. They will be voting in the upcoming presidential elections in Turkey. That means they will become part of Turkish politics soon. Some Turkish politicians may be thinking it is a good idea to create some tensions that might increase nationalistic fervor among Turks in Germany.

http://www.thelocal.de/20130303/48293


http://www.thelocal.de/userdata/images/article/w468/de/48293.jpg (http://www.thelocal.de/20130303/48293)Photo: DPA
Bundeswehr 'bullied' by Turkish troops
Published: 03 Mar 2013 07:49 GMT+01:00
Updated: 03 Mar 2013 07:49 GMT+01:00
German troops deployed on the Turkish-Syrian border are being badly treated by their Turkish hosts and NATO partners, a government report said over the weekend.


Turkish mob threatens German soldiers (http://www.thelocal.de/20130123/47511) (23 Jan 13)
Bundeswehr 'unprepared for chemical warfare' (http://www.thelocal.de/20121214/46777)(14 Dec 12)
German troops heading to Turkey-Syria border (http://www.thelocal.de/20121206/46609) (06 Dec 12)


<iframe width="300" height="250" framespacing="0" frameborder="no" scrolling="no" id="ox_6575572839_247043" name="ox_6575572839_247043"></iframe>
A majority of the 400 German troops sent to Turkey in December as part of a NATO mission deploying Patriot anti-aircraft missiles to defend the Syrian border said Turkish soldiers did not treat them as welcome guests and were “rarely helpful,” wrote Der Spiegel magazine on Saturday.
Not only that, but the soldiers often felt they were being persecuted by the Turkish army on purpose, according to a report presented to parliament on Friday.
Cooperation between the Bundeswehr soldiers and local forces is “overwhelmingly perceived as problematic,” wrote parliamentary commissioner for the armed forces Hellmut Königshaus, who has just returned from an inspection of the troops.
A general ban means Turkish troops are not allowed to make any contact with the Germans and will be immediately disciplined if they do. Meanwhile, the Germans have only been granted restricted movement outside the camp in Kahramanmaras - confined to a "Green Zone" in the centre of town, said the report.
German military police said they had been told they must keep a low profile and are not allowed to carry weapons outside camp or drive in their khaki jeeps, wrote Königshaus.
Bundeswehr soldiers said conditions in the camp were unacceptable, with toilets in the main headquarters said to have been at times knee-high in faeces. Turkish customs also often prevented the military postal delivery from arriving for days or even weeks, they said.
Königshaus also reported several incidents of bad treatment against the Germans by the Turkish commanding officer in charge of the barracks, wrote the magazine.
Ahead of a visit by German Defence Minister Thomas de Maizière at the end of February, for example, the officer ordered the Germans to take down all German flags in the camp, and told them it was still a Turkish barrack.
Just before the minister arrived, a young German military policewoman attempted to block a road for the minister's convoy. She stopped a limousine carrying the commanding officer - a general in the Turkish army.
German soldiers who witnessed the incident said the commanding officer then flew into a rage and started a shoving match with the woman, which escalated until troops stepped in to protect her. Several injuries later documented by a doctor support this version of events, which the magazine said differed in tone to the official version.
A Defence Ministry spokeswoman said they were taking Königshaus' report very seriously and were looking into the accusations.
The Local/jlb

The Local (news@thelocal.de)

When the Turks abuse the troops which have been sent to save them (because TURKEY REQUESTED NATO SUPPORT, THE GERMANS DIDN'T MOVE OUT THERE ON THEIR OWN OR SIMPLY BECAUSE OF NATO) it is quite clear that they have gone insane.

Of course, this is no news for us in the other side of the Aegean. We can bring proof of Turkish mentality under different administrations and point out the flaws anytime you like. In the end of the day, this would only serve to prove why everybody hates the Turks...

[Shah-Jehan]

If culture goes by the numbers, then India of Today is the biggest cultural center every! http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/crazy-monkey/crazy-monkey-emoticon-041.gif?1292792389
Istanbul has everything, any other city in Europe does but, I was talking about the diversity present and history in Istanbul that makes it a great cultural center.
But, yes, India is one of the biggest cultural center of the world, it has more languages and ethnic groups than every continent except Africa and virtually all religions and all types of races.

[Sky earth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-oXpWYzsU

Ripping Off Armenian Music, and then calling it Turkish, doesn't magically transform it into Turkish music. The same is true for every aspect of Armenian Civilization, which was conveniently obliterated in Western Armenia (present day Eastern Turkey), a century ago.

The Turkish government wanted to open and analyze all historical archives of the whole Armenian genocide issue but your government refused this and so the debate is still open. Just get over it. It's 100 years ago and neither me nor any other Turk is responsible for what happened 100 years ago. Western Armenia doesn't exist. You just lost it and you should get over it.

[Grenzland]

The Germans who hate Turks are mainly young, uninformed ones who don't have a good grasp of history yet. Germans used to get along very well with Turks indeed. Germany and Turkey (the OE) were allied in WW1. Hitler also spoke well of them.

Oh thanks. Now I feel a lot better! :rolleyes:

Thanks for being aliied with us in WW1. Thanks a lot, now I CANNOT be pissed of your Anatonlian scum who is workless, doesn't speak our language and does most of the crime in Germany.

I don't dislike Turks because I'm uninformed, I dislike them for being savages. Loki, you don't know anything about our immigration problems, why do you talk for Germany? Same for the Turks in Turkey. Great idea, sending all the jobless to Germany. They aren't the same as the people walking along in Istanbul.
And for the Turks living in Germany. You hate us and Turkey is so much better? Then just leave. Nobody would be sad! Ah I forgott, our welfare is better than the Turkish ones. That's pure nationalism!


And again for the ones who still don't believe it:
Turks are the second most disliked group only topped by Gypsies. That's because of their behaviour, not because some hard racism. Same in Austria and Netherlands and whatever nations you immigrate to leave your own nation.

[XUTERO]

Should the whole world hate Germans for their endless plundering of Rome or the Holocaust? You are responsible for the WW2 and the killings in the Kzs of 11 million minorities like Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals...Does it even get more disgusting and barbarian?

In fact they did not. History has been altered greatly. History is slowly proving that the Nazi's were not the criminals, described as in the Israeli propaganda.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vfdZtpx_ug


Then, about the Turkish phobia...
I suppose that if your population wasn't that high in numbers, you would be less hated. Genes are the nervous system of this debate.
The other thing is that Turkey is not part of Europe. Instead of focusing on us, you would do well to watch out for the Zionists,
as this menace is growing close to your country.

Anyway, I don't really care about this. I just hope the blond genes in humans will not be wiped out by immigration.

Peace,

[Instinct]

The Turkish government wanted to open and analyze all historical archives of the whole Armenian genocide issue but your government refused this and so the debate is still open. Just get over it. It's 100 years ago and neither me nor any other Turk is responsible for what happened 100 years ago. Western Armenia doesn't exist. You just lost it and you should get over it.

There are many Turks who accept that Armenian Genocide is a fact. Actually, in the university we have discussed this each other in class by documents and other stuff. Most of us also our proffessor agreed with the what happened during 1915.

Research about the history of East Turkey in English language by objective points and historians. That was the homeland of Armenians for thousand of years. I am not talking about millions of people were killed. I am talking about a culture which is not exists anymore.

If you search about the city names in East Turkey, also some places like Hemshin in the North East: mostly they're in Armenian. Turkish people of Erzurum, or anywhere in the East of Turkey still call the villages with their previous names.

No, Turks are not guilty about what happened in 1915. We should ask about the system how a person was born as a baby then turned to Hrant Dink's murderer in Turkey, Rakel Dink says.


You'll see the truth when you just look the perspective as a human instead of getting any identity. Also Murat Bardakçı ( a well known nationalist historian ) said that Armenians were late to get independence from Ottoman Empire. Are you suprised?

Have you heard about that Turkish Foreign Ministery published a document about condolence to Armenian generation who lost their mothers, fathers, grandparents?
Next year, we'll watch a movie called THE CUT. Although Nationalists threatened Fatih Akın.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khpZ3NtPjTM

[Xanthias]

My bet now Autor has mental disorder after all the right an true things he tries to hide on this thread.

[turkojew]

There are many Turks who accept that Armenian Genocide is a fact. Actually, in the university we have discussed this each other in class by documents and other stuff. Most of us also our proffessor agreed with the what happened during 1915.

Research about the history of East Turkey in English language by objective points and historians. That was the homeland of Armenians for thousand of years. I am not talking about millions of people were killed. I am talking about a culture which is not exists anymore.

If you search about the city names in East Turkey, also some places like Hemshin in the North East: mostly they're in Armenian. Turkish people of Erzurum, or anywhere in the East of Turkey still call the villages with their previous names.

No, Turks are not guilty about what happened in 1915. We should ask about the system how a person was born as a baby then turned to Hrant Dink's murderer in Turkey, Rakel Dink says.


You'll see the truth when you just look the perspective as a human instead of getting any identity. Also Murat Bardakçı ( a well known nationalist historian ) said that Armenians were late to get independence from Ottoman Empire. Are you suprised?

Have you heard about that Turkish Foreign Ministery published a document about condolence to Armenian generation who lost their mothers, fathers, grandparents?
Next year, we'll watch a movie called THE CUT. Although Nationalists threatened Fatih Akın.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khpZ3NtPjTM

well said.

[gültekin]

They ripped off the Greek dances of Pontus and they claim them as their traditional dances, .
Are you serious, Greeks with boots and pants ? :laugh: you must be kidding
http://placesiwanttogoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/400px-traditional_greek_foustanelles.jpg

[Casandrinos]

Gultekinism is a mental disorder

[Shah-Jehan]

Are you serious, Greeks with boots and pants ? :laugh: you must be kidding
http://placesiwanttogoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/400px-traditional_greek_foustanelles.jpg

She's talking about Horon, sure, it has similarities with Greek but, it also has similarities to Persian and Laz/Georgian dance styles, then who ripped off who?

[Linet]

She's talking about Horon, sure, it has similarities with Greek but, it also has similarities to Persian and Laz/Georgian dance styles, then who ripped off who?

horon....means dance....in Greek.....so your traditional dance is the "dance"?
I suppose thats what Turks were hearing the Greeks yell when they were dancing and thought thats the name of the dance. :joy: ...well...is not.....Greeks were yelling horon "dance" in order to call people to dance :fdancing:....the dances real name is pyrrihios.... :wink:

[Linet]

Are you serious, Greeks with boots and pants ? :laugh: you must be kidding
http://placesiwanttogoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/400px-traditional_greek_foustanelles.jpg

Greeks have many traditional clothes.... :eyes

[gültekin]

She's talking about Horon, sure, it has similarities with Greek but, it also has similarities to Persian and Laz/Georgian dance styles, then who ripped off who?
dude , al in one, if you wanna dance Horon , you need boots and pants. watching Horon etc. dancing Greeks with skirts would be funny :laugh:. Horon is indeed Laz-Caucasian origin. Pontids are helenized Laz's

[Bloodnigger]

Are you serious, Greeks with boots and pants ? :laugh: you must be kidding
http://placesiwanttogoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/400px-traditional_greek_foustanelles.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridates_VI_of_Pontus

Pants in Pontus go all the way back to him. The only auxilaries taken from the greek east in the roman legions that did not wear skirts were pontics.

[Petros Houhoulis]

dude , al in one, if you wanna dance Horon , you need boots and pants. watching Horon etc. dancing Greeks with skirts would be funny :laugh:. Horon is indeed Laz-Caucasian origin. Pontids are helenized Laz's

When the Laz became Hellenized, the Turks were still in Central Asia.

Since the Pontians were Hellenes for ~3-4 thousand years now, they are more Greek than anything is Turkish outside of Central Asia...

[gültekin]

Greeks have many traditional .... :eyes
fixed.. Abkhaz-Caucasian clothes...
http://abkhazworld.com/aw/images/people/abkhaz_longevity/Abkhazian_Longevity_10.jpg

[Instinct]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY6IF8BSTRg


:ranger::ranger:

[gültekin]

:ranger::ranger:
just copycats.. that is original

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZCsYWRu4bI

[Instinct]

just copycats.. that is original

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZCsYWRu4bI

I think it's common culture, no need to be specified :) anyway, i can't imagine myself dancing horon :D

I found on youtube Armenian's wedding dance davul, zurna is the same in Erzurum, Erzincan, etc. :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z6IDL73CTg

[gültekin]

..
what i say, just copycats. when you talking about Davul! Pants and Boots, nothing is common.

Boots
Türkish: Çizme Magyar: Csizma
you got it?

[Linet]

just copycats.. that is original

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZCsYWRu4bI

Thast the original

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pasu3WhQ6o0/UxIGnlLGPiI/AAAAAAAAC0s/pwZKGMZFHFY/s1600/Pyrichios.gif
http://parisis.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ceb5ceb9cebacf8ccebdceb111.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nNlMvTVKUWg/UefFokggobI/AAAAAAAAKks/9iHtjR8mLSQ/s1600/pirrixios.jpg

[Linet]

Goodnight now http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr112/denimcg/Smileys/bf-cloudstarsmiley.gif....continue your horon... :wink:
ooooh i like that.....i said dance in Greek but Turks can understand it....coooool :rockon:

[gültekin]

Thast the original

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nNlMvTVKUWg/UefFokggobI/AAAAAAAAKks/9iHtjR8mLSQ/s1600/pirrixios.jpg
:picard1:
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000PShjtaLQy_s/s/900/900/HI211-861.jpg
http://www.justicefornorthcaucasus.com/innovaeditor/assets/Cherkesska.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/CircassianPhoto.jpg

[Casandrinos]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/CircassianPhoto.jpg

Which one is you gultekin?

http://ladygeekgirl.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/power-rangers-1-mighty-morphin.jpg

[Pennywise]

:picard1:.....]

those are totally diffrent than that greek fantasy bunny clothes. :)

[gültekin]

Which one is you gultekin?

[IMG]ht
This one
http://s17.postimg.org/ovcn133jj/10400661_18892834398_9654_n.jpg

[Petros Houhoulis]

This one
http://s17.postimg.org/ovcn133jj/10400661_18892834398_9654_n.jpg

I guess this is what you use to clean your arse...

[gültekin]

I guess this is what you use to clean your arse...
nope, to screw some already enlarged monkey's arses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op1t-DR1tU0

[Pennywise]

nope, to screw some already enlarged monkey's arses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op1t-DR1tU0

Hahahah, nereden buldun bunu yahu, akşam akşam kahkaha attım.

[Petros Houhoulis]

nope, to screw some already enlarged monkey's arses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op1t-DR1tU0

Yeah, sure... Rape with the clothes on!

What sort of weed are you smoking?

[Pennywise]

Yeah, sure... Rape with the clothes on!

What sort of weed are you smoking?

it doesn't count, his clothes on! :cry

[Faklon]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/man-rapes-duck-in-turkish-village-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=30133&NewsCatID=341


A man was detained in Bursa province in Turkey’s Marmara region for allegedly raping a duck, daily Habertürk reported.

Police forces detained the man following complaints from his inlaws, who claimed he had raped one of their ducks during an overnight stay in their house.

The man’s father-in-law said he found "feathers and blood" in a bed with the duck.

The duck was "unable to walk," according to the father-in-law. The man’s mother-in-law told daily Habertürk she later discovered the man’s bloody shirt by a tree the next morning.

The 50 year-old suspect denied all accusations, calling them all "slander."

The duck was found to have suffered deformation and damage to its intestines and underwent several operations. It is now reportedly in good condition and remains in a vetrenarian’s care.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_duck


Peking Duck is a famous duck dish from Beijing[1] that has been prepared since the imperial era.


Durks claim descent and legacy from far Asia and this is more or less what characterises a Durk superficially,turning upon his Duck.
That the Turkics were called Donkeys in the Ottoman Empire is another example.

People do the mistake to turn only to Ottoman Empire and they let Durks to play the Ataturk argument when that Durkish legacy consist of 2-faced snakedonkeys is shown from Armenia/Cappadocia to Cyprus to Assad and ISIS.

[Wadaad]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2wmgfid.jpg

I could tell the Slavic painter draw alot from the well of 19th century scientific racism ideals...(angelic and clean/pure White slav molested by evil: negro, mongoloid and umm, sandnig/armenoid/semite

[Faklon]

Thast the original

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pasu3WhQ6o0/UxIGnlLGPiI/AAAAAAAAC0s/pwZKGMZFHFY/s1600/Pyrichios.gif
http://parisis.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ceb5ceb9cebacf8ccebdceb111.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nNlMvTVKUWg/UefFokggobI/AAAAAAAAKks/9iHtjR8mLSQ/s1600/pirrixios.jpg

What differentiates it from Syrtos?

The hands?

[morski]

I could tell the Slavic painter draw alot from the well of 19th century scientific racism ideals...(angelic and clean/pure White slav molested by evil: negro, mongoloid and umm, sandnig/armenoid/semite

I'd say it's quite an accurate representation. Compare with actual footage from the FBW, only this time the mongrel filth are POW. They look the same, their tendencies towards rape and murder are also clearly demonstrated - the old fart with the beard was caught with two female ears with earrings still attached to them among the other things he'd looted.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHPPtOQ0d3c

[Wadaad]

Cant imagine the wrath that old man faced once the camera reels stopped rolling :lol:

(to me he just looks Irano-Afghan/Armenoid covered in filth or soot)

[Trun]

Comments on the video are clear, Bulgarians were too kind to give these animals what they really deserved.


I could tell the Slavic painter draw alot from the well of 19th century scientific racism ideals...(angelic and clean/pure White slav molested by evil: negro, mongoloid and umm, sandnig/armenoid/semite

Scientific racism or the bare truth, I'm sure rape is in your nature too. It didn't end in 19th century, your monkey brothers raped Bulgarian women in 1918 as well.

[Wadaad]

Comments on the video are clear, Bulgarians were too kind to give these animals what they really deserved.



Scientific racism or the bare truth, I'm sure rape is in your nature too. It didn't end in 19th century, your monkey brothers raped Bulgarian women in 1918 as well.

Would explain your bastard looks

[Trun]

Would explain your bastard looks

At least I look like a human, not an ape.

[mikhail]

I could tell the Slavic painter draw alot from the well of 19th century scientific racism ideals...(angelic and clean/pure White slav molested by evil: negro, mongoloid and umm, sandnig/armenoid/semite
It's actually a rather realistic depiction of Ottoman atrocities (though there were far worse ones), aside from the black Ottoman soldier in the Balkans.

[Linet]

Yeah, sure... Rape with the clothes on!

What sort of weed are you smoking?


I actually like this video :thumbs:
Its funny and the guy in the end proved that he has both humour and nice feelings and stroke the dog http://forums.colts.com/public/style_emoticons/default/luv4yorkies_wagging.gif rather than kick it away like a Turk would have done .

[Loki]

I :love: Turks and Turkey :thumb001:

That means I'm sane ;)

[Queen B]

I agree - it is not a very smart philosophy.

I like Turkish people a lot.

The Germans who hate Turks are mainly young, uninformed ones who don't have a good grasp of history yet. Germans used to get along very well with Turks indeed. Germany and Turkey (the OE) were allied in WW1. Hitler also spoke well of them.

I :love: Turks and Turkey :thumb001:

That means I'm sane ;)

We got it already :laugh:

[gültekin]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/man-rapes-duck-in-turkish-village-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=30133&NewsCatID=341

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_duck

Durks claim descent and legacy from far Asia and this is more or less what characterises a Durk superficially,turning upon his Duck.
That the Turkics were called Donkeys in the Ottoman Empire is another example.

People do the mistake to turn only to Ottoman Empire and they let Durks to play the Ataturk argument when that Durkish legacy consist of 2-faced snakedonkeys is shown from Armenia/Cappadocia to Cyprus to Assad and ISIS.
You talking about zoophilia, and that is well-known a Greek legacy and founded by ancient Greeks, that shows the deep characteristic of some Greeks, and this character still continues today
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Pan_goat_MAN_Napoli_Inv27709_n01.jpg/220px-Pan_goat_MAN_Napoli_Inv27709_n01.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_zoophilia

* In ancient Greece, Xenophon records sex with goats. Norman Haire (Hymen) states "since the Greek myths contain many stories of gods who assumed the shape of animals in order to mate with mortals, we may judge that even bestiality was not regarded as revolting."

* Plutarch and Virgil state of Greece, that: "it commits very frequently and in many places great outrages, disorders and scandals against nature, in the matter of this pleasure of love; for there are men who have loved she-goats, sows and mares," (Discourse on the Reason of Beasts, xvii) Pliny states that Semiramis prostituted herself to her horse, and Venette says that "there is nothing more common in Egypt than that young women have intercourse with bucks."

* Robson, in "Bestiality and bestial rape in Greek myth" (1997) suggests three points of departure for analyzing Greek myth: 1) sex with animals as pornography, 2) as part of hunting ritual, and 3) as bestial myths and/or male initiation rituals.

http://s15.postimg.org/g8g25rfvf/rape.png

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=Z-GbOvrbniQC&pg=PT7&lpg=PT7&dq=Bestiality++greek&source=bl&ots=goTh5meJZO&sig=VUWts9VVG49GYImfvA5EZrBtiP4&hl=tr&sa=X&ei=tX3eU9b5OYqB4gT62oDIAQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Bestiality%20%20greek&f=false


http://greeceexposed.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/10294278_303550979802134_2802039037756604501_n-1.jpg?w=852&h=444
28th April 2014.

http://greeceexposed.com/2014/04/30/...-for-dog-rape/
84 Year Old Man Arrested For Dog Rape
Details emerged yesterday from Constantina Kanellopoulou, Animal Welfare Group Volunteer Trifylias of the arrest of an 84 year old male resident of Filiatron for allegedly raping a stray female dog on Monday 28th April 2014.
We understand the ACCUSED was witnessed with his trousers down and holding the stray females dogs legs apart towards his penis.
A second witness said that the accused is known to sexually abuse dogs in the area and that he had previously seen him doing something whilst a third witness claimed that he had seen the perpetrator rape dog but he did not want to testify to the police.
February 28, 2013

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-934545
TWO DOGS RAPED, TORTURED AND KILLED BY BEAST's' IN GREECE
Disturbing reports from two news agencies posted 27:02:13 of two dogs who have been SEXUALLY ABUSED and TORTURED to death in Laconia Greece.
The reports say- Two dogs have been sexually abused to death in Skala, Laconia. A family who saw ther dogs die in horrible pain complained of this crime in the Panhellenic Animal Welfare Federation, which, in turn disclosed the affair.
August 11, 2013
http://i.cdn.turner.com/ireport/sm/prod/2013/08/11/WE00990020/2563740/thumbjpg-2563740_p9.jpg
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1018934

It has been reported today that a young stray female dog from the Olympic Village in Thrakomakedones GREECE was abducted and RAPED yesterday, Saturday 10th August 2012.
Witnesses observed the dog being taken from the street and placed inside a white Toyota Corolla by a man and noted the registration number of the vehicle.
30 minutes after the abduction the man returned to the region and dumped the female dog back onto the street where she was found to be bleeding from the vagina.
Witnesses contacted Police and the animal was transferred to a vet by volunteers where it has been announced after first tests the veterinarian confirmed the young female dog was subject to RAPE.
The vet confirmed that the animal was suffering from soft tissue contusion and that the cervix was open,this can happen only if the dog has had intercourse, the female dog had pulled muscles in her lower back body, she was not on heat and as explained by the veterinarian to the police the bleeding vagina was the result of RAPE!



http://greece.greekreporter.com/files/goat1-150x150.jpg
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-977670
A 25-year-old BEAST from the island of CRETE (Where else) has been sentenced to 16 months in jail, but then released on appeal after being convicted of the RAPE of his neighbor’s goat.

The BEAST was caught in the act RAPING the goat and reportedly had been engaging in frequent sexual relations with the abused animal.

The finding of a provincial court in CRETE on 22nd May 2013, according to (mellon.gr) the indictment, the man arrested was caught raping a goat in his neighbor’s stall, outside the village.

Suspicions were aroused in the village when the defendant was seen repeatedly going into the barn by another resident. The owner of the animal reported the PERVERT to police and he was later arrested,..

[Loki]

We got it already :laugh:

You are very observant :P :o

[Queen B]

You are very observant :P :o
Well, reading it over 2 times, it feels like deja-vu ''Wait, didn't I read it yesterday?"

:lol:

[Pennywise]

The Germans who hate Turks are mainly young, uninformed ones who don't have a good grasp of history yet. Germans used to get along very well with Turks indeed. Germany and Turkey (the OE) were allied in WW1. Hitler also spoke well of them.


Oh thanks. Now I feel a lot better! :rolleyes:

Thanks for being aliied with us in WW1. Thanks a lot, now I CANNOT be pissed of your Anatonlian scum who is workless, doesn't speak our language and does most of the crime in Germany.

I don't dislike Turks because I'm uninformed, I dislike them for being savages. Loki, you don't know anything about our immigration problems, why do you talk for Germany? Same for the Turks in Turkey. Great idea, sending all the jobless to Germany. They aren't the same as the people walking along in Istanbul.
And for the Turks living in Germany. You hate us and Turkey is so much better? Then just leave. Nobody would be sad! Ah I forgott, our welfare is better than the Turkish ones. That's pure nationalism!


And again for the ones who still don't believe it:
Turks are the second most disliked group only topped by Gypsies. That's because of their behaviour, not because some hard racism. Same in Austria and Netherlands and whatever nations you immigrate to leave your own nation.

well... Loki, what were you saying? come again? :)

[Grenzland]

I :love: Turks and Turkey :thumb001:

That means I'm sane ;)

Turkey is a NATO country, what about your solidarity with Syria?

[Faklon]

You talking about zoophilia, and that is well-known a Greek legacy and founded by ancient Greeks, that shows the deep characteristic of some Greeks, and this character still continues today
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Pan_goat_MAN_Napoli_Inv27709_n01.jpg/220px-Pan_goat_MAN_Napoli_Inv27709_n01.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_zoophilia

* In ancient Greece, Xenophon records sex with goats. Norman Haire (Hymen) states "since the Greek myths contain many stories of gods who assumed the shape of animals in order to mate with mortals, we may judge that even bestiality was not regarded as revolting."

* Plutarch and Virgil state of Greece, that: "it commits very frequently and in many places great outrages, disorders and scandals against nature, in the matter of this pleasure of love; for there are men who have loved she-goats, sows and mares," (Discourse on the Reason of Beasts, xvii) Pliny states that Semiramis prostituted herself to her horse, and Venette says that "there is nothing more common in Egypt than that young women have intercourse with bucks."

* Robson, in "Bestiality and bestial rape in Greek myth" (1997) suggests three points of departure for analyzing Greek myth: 1) sex with animals as pornography, 2) as part of hunting ritual, and 3) as bestial myths and/or male initiation rituals.

http://s15.postimg.org/g8g25rfvf/rape.png

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=Z-GbOvrbniQC&pg=PT7&lpg=PT7&dq=Bestiality++greek&source=bl&ots=goTh5meJZO&sig=VUWts9VVG49GYImfvA5EZrBtiP4&hl=tr&sa=X&ei=tX3eU9b5OYqB4gT62oDIAQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Bestiality%20%20greek&f=false


This means foremost that it was recorded.

Who know how many ducks,pigeons or even butterflies are raped in Durkey and not recoded.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/persecute-turkey-dog-rapists-please-put-them-in-prison-do-to-them-the-same-thing-they-done-to-the/


Tell the Mayor of Sincan (Ankara) that dogs are being raped behind his office

There is nothing strange about finding a raped dog in Turkey.
It happens everywhere and you only have to spend some time on Facebook to discover many many cases, sometimes on a daily basis.
But this case is a little different. The end result is the same, a dog is raped by a human and is killed afterwards... what is different is the LOCATION of the crime.
The rape took place right behind the building of the Sincan Municipality in Ankara.
A few meters away from a building constantly surveiled by security a dog is being raped, his screams are loud, can be heard from the distance...
But nobody did anything...
Please call the office of the mayor Mustafa Tuna on:

Tell him dogs are being raped behind his office. Tell him to today was a dog, tomorrow could be a little girl or a boy.


http://english.pravda.ru/science/mysteries/12-01-2010/111621-sheep_human_face-0/



Sheep Gives Birth to Human-Faced Lamb in Turkey


A sheep gave birth to a dead lamb with a human-like face. The animal was born in a village not far from the city of Izmir, Turkey.

Erhan Elibol, a vet, performed Cesarean section on the animal to take the lamb out, but was horrified to see that the features of the lamb’s snout bore a striking resemblance to a human face.

“I’ve seen mutations with cows and sheep before. I’ve seen a one-eyed lamb, a two-headed lamb, a five-legged lamb. But when I saw this youngster I could not believe my eyes. His mother could not deliver him so I had to help the animal,” the 29-year-old veterinary said.

The lamb’s head had human features on – the eyes, the nose and the mouth – only the ears were those of a sheep.

Veterinaries said that the rare mutation most likely occurred as a result of improper nutrition since the fodder for the lamb’s mother was abundant with vitamin A, CNNTurk.com reports.

In Zimbabwe, a goat gave birth to a similar youngster in September 2009. The mutant baby born with a human-like head stayed alive for several hours until the frightened village residents killed him.

The governor of the province where the ugly goat was born said that the little goat was the fruit of unnatural relationship between the female goat and a man.

"This incident is very shocking. It is my first time to see such an evil thing. It is really embarrassing," he reportedly said. "The head belongs to a man while the body is that of a goat. This is evident that an adult human being was responsible. Evil powers caused this person to lose self control. We often hear cases of human beings who commit bestiality but this is the first time for such an act to produce a product with human features," he added.

The mutant creature was hairless. Local residents said that even dogs were afraid to approach the bizarre animal.

The locals burnt the body of the little goat, and biologists had no chance to study the rare mutation.

[denz]

A better question is: Who likes Turks?

I know personally of Turanists that feel they're somehow kin, even though they're overwhelmingly Hittite/Syriac/Armenian/Hellenic people that sold their identity to Altaic migrants, who never constitued more than 10-15% of the population in Anatolia. I'd wager Central Asian Turkics do feel some sympathy as well.

Everybody in the region seems to dislike them. Greeks, Kurds, Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, Persians, Russians, Balkanites of every sort (except Bosniaks and maybe Albanians), Germans/Austrians, and I've met even a fair share of Polish people who remember the Hunyady episode with fierce pride against the Turks, similar to how non-Turanist Hungarians feel. Every neighbouring country has a problem with them, with only Azerbaijan being friendly, and maybe Georgia being neutral.

To be honest, I think that outside other Turkic countries, only Israel has ever felt close to them, and that was prior to Erdogan and the AKP coming to power. Can't say if the US/UK have ever looked at them as a reliable partner or simply an useful tool to wield when needed.

All races who knelled down in history hates Turks. So it makes 70% of total

[Empecinado]

I could tell the Slavic painter draw alot from the well of 19th century scientific racism ideals...(angelic and clean/pure White slav molested by evil: negro, mongoloid and umm, sandnig/armenoid/semite

Long before the 19th century Muslims were represented as blacks even though blacks were a minority among them, take a look at the coat of arms.

[TheGoldenSon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVon-azYI2w

Explain this.

Quite impressive.

[Ars Moriendi]

All races who knelled down in history hates Turks. So it makes 70% of total

Fun interpretation.
I suppose then 90%+ of people have kneeled to Jews and that's why they hate them.

I like how people like gültekin exist, hating Jews when in reality, they are the closest thing you can find to Anatolian Turks. Dubious backgrounds, hateful identity and civilizational destruction left and right.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Quite impressive.

Quite an exaggeration. Turks in West Africa? Turks in Indonesia? Turks taking over all of Austria and pockets in South Italy?

[TheGoldenSon]

Quite an exaggeration. Turks in West Africa? Turks in Indonesia? Turks taking over all of Austria and pockets in South Italy?

I discarded those silly notions, I counted them in as spheres of influence at best. But the amount the territory the ethnic Turks controlled with only three Empires (and which fought against opposing empires of equal or greater strenght) which existed in continuum until the early days of the twentieth century is quite awe inspireing and only rivaled by other higher races, like Anglo Saxons and ancient Romans.

[Petros Houhoulis]

I discarded those silly notions, I counted them in as spheres of influence at best. But the amount the territory the ethnic Turks controlled with only three Empires (and which fought against opposing empires of equal or greater strenght) which existed in continuum until the early days of the twentieth century is quite awe inspireing and only rivaled by other higher races, like Anglo Saxons and ancient Romans.

Huge chunks of territory in spaces barely inhabited accounts for nothing. It's like conquering the Antarctica.

As for judging civilizations according to their extent, only a fool would consider the Mongols civilized, despite having the largest empire in the world ever. Basically, even the Turks could hardly pass as civilized...

[TheGoldenSon]

Huge chunks of territory in spaces barely inhabited accounts for nothing. It's like conquering the Antarctica.

We are talking about some of the densly populated regions on the planet nestled in some of the most fertile river valleys which have spawned first civilizations.


As for judging civilizations according to their extent, only a fool would consider the Mongols civilized, despite having the largest empire in the world ever.

Original Mongols were far from sub intelligent brutes, but still they were a nomadic people which have forged an impresive empire which desolved with second generation, and the memory if not the effects of it, were lost with the third generation which assimilated into the local population, cultures and customs.


Basically, even the Turks could hardly pass as civilized...

Their hold on over the entire territory of the eastern Roman Empire (and a few chunks mre) which they held out longer than their predecesors suggests otherwise. What was the Ottoman downfall was their tolerance of the non Turks, had they were not Muslims which maintained multiculturalism trough jizya tax, you and I might have spoken Turkish and be praying in a Nestorian Turkish Church.

[Arianiti]

I could tell the Slavic painter draw alot from the well of 19th century scientific racism ideals...(angelic and clean/pure White slav molested by evil: negro, mongoloid and umm, sandnig/armenoid/semite

That painting is a bullshit, an imagination, and it is brought here as a proof for Ottoman violence. Very serious.

I do not know what happened during ottoman times as many lies were spread since, but I do not hate today Turks and do not fear them of course. :P

[StormBringer]

Their hold on over the entire territory of the eastern Roman Empire (and a few chunks mre) which they held out longer than their predecesors suggests otherwise. What was the Ottoman downfall was their tolerance of the non Turks, had they were not Muslims which maintained multiculturalism trough jizya tax, you and I might have spoken Turkish and be praying in a Nestorian Turkish Church.
I'm fairly sure that under such oppression the population of occupied lands would've rebelled even more often.
http://www.medievalists.net/2012/09/09/in-the-lions-den-orthodox-christians-under-ottoman-rule-1400-1550/

I thought that it was established that they fell because the Empire was simply to obsolete by that time?

[mikhail]

That painting is a bullshit, an imagination, and it is brought here as a prove for Ottoman violence. Very serious.

I do not know what happened during ottoman times as many lies were spread since, but I do not hate today Turks and do not fear them of course. :P

Convert to Orthodoxy and gain your dignity back, put the Turkish dick down and pump the Turk semen out of your stomach, slave. I know that Turkish semen was baby formula for you when you were an infant, but you have to let it go.

[Arianiti]

Convert to Orthodoxy and gain your dignity back, put the Turkish dick down and pump the Turk semen out of your stomach, slave. I know that Turkish semen was baby formula for you when you were an infant, but you have to let it go.

Fuck Orthodoxy :P

Why don't you say a Catholic or a Protestant a least. I would rather be a Satanist than an Orthodox.

[mikhail]

Fuck Orthodoxy :P

Why do not say a Catholic or a Protestant a least. I would rather be a Satanist than an Orthodox.

You're drunk on Turk sperm.

[Arianiti]

You're drunk on Turk sperm.

You are stupid, a peasant who has no link with reality.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Fuck Orthodoxy :P

Why do not you say a Catholic or a Protestant a least. I would rather be a Satanist than an Orthodox.

Even Satanism is better than Islam these days...

[mikhail]

You are stupid, a peasant who has no link with reality.

And you're a Turkish slave.

[Arianiti]

Even Satanism is better than Islam these days...

Who says it it isn't?

[Arianiti]

And you're a Turkish slave.

:mad:

http://yoyowithoutborders.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/tumblr_m7ndlwhvpf1qz6f9yo1_500.jpg

[TheGoldenSon]

I thought that it was established that they fell because the Empire was simply to obsolete by that time?

The Empire had all the prerequisites for survival and a potential for it to be a higher power with it's geostrategical position and resources, what dragged them down were ethnic non-Turks which they had failled to wipe out or assimilate with their initial conquests of the territory unlike the Anglo Saxons in Americas and Australia or the Germans in Prussia. I still hold to my idea, that what took them down was the multiculturism maintained by archaic Islamic laws which were incompatible with the changing world they found themselves in.

The Ottomans were a proud lion which was drained of life by flees rather than other apex players.

[mikhail]

:mad:

http://yoyowithoutborders.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/tumblr_m7ndlwhvpf1qz6f9yo1_500.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/t0pz7a.jpg

Go unite with Turkey then if you love the Ottoman empire so much you Turkish semen dispenser.

[Arianiti]

http://i61.tinypic.com/t0pz7a.jpg

Go unite with Turkey then if you love the Ottoman empire so much you Turkish semen dispenser.

You seriously suffer from turcophpbia which seem to be a mental disorder. And watch your dirty mouth ! Do not listen too much to your village priest as in the time of Ottomans Im sure he would have kissed their ass the most as they did back then.

No need to fear them boy.

[Shah-Jehan]

The Empire had all the prerequisites for survival and a potential for it to be a higher power with it's geostrategical position and resources, what dragged them down were ethnic non-Turks which they had failled to wipe out or assimilate with their initial conquests of the territory unlike the Anglo Saxons in Americas and Australia or the Germans in Prussia. I still hold my idea, that what took them down was the multiculturism maintained by archaic Islamic laws which were incompatible with the changing world they found themselves in.

The Ottomans were a proud lion which was drained of life by flees rather than other apex players.
nice summary, even despite the multicultural pressure and growth of nationalism in the empire, it still would've survived intact had the Central powers not have lost the war, otherwise, it could've also survived if there the Turkish national struggle against invaders wasn't there (which would've been horrible considering the Ottoman empire proposed by the treaty of Sevres had drained away much of its' traditional heartland)

Actually, had the CUP led by the three pashas hadn't seized power from the Ottoman porte, then they would've never joined the Central powers, there would be no British plan to incite the Arab revolt although Russia would've still been a massive threat.

[Petros Houhoulis]

We are talking about some of the densly populated regions on the planet nestled in some of the most fertile river valleys which have spawned first civilizations.

That was before the Turks passed from there and massacred them all. Tamerlane alone massacred 17 million people, all of the Turks more than 100 million people, remember?


Original Mongols were far from sub intelligent brutes, but still they were a nomadic people which have forged an impresive empire which desolved with second generation, and the memory if not the effects of it, were lost with the third generation which assimilated into the local population, cultures and customs.

Nomadic is the opposite of Civilized.


Their hold on over the entire territory of the eastern Roman Empire (and a few chunks mre) which they held out longer than their predecesors suggests otherwise. What was the Ottoman downfall was their tolerance of the non Turks, had they were not Muslims which maintained multiculturalism trough jizya tax, you and I might have spoken Turkish and be praying in a Nestorian Turkish Church.

Their hold over the entire territory of the East Roman empire was only the result of an extensive genocide. I could also hold on Bosnia for many centuries if I kill half the Bosniak population during the conquest (and that is what the Ottomans did with most of the Balkans, maybe they couldn't catch all of you in the mountains).

The Turks were too few to try to make everybody a Turk during the Ottoman conquests. If they tried, they would have failed for sure, because they were less than 5% of the total population in Turkey alone, not to mention the entire empire...

...Yet they did exactly that during the collapse of the Ottoman empire. You can ask the Armenians, the Greeks, the Kurds, the Assyrians e.t.c.

[mikhail]

You seriously suffer from turcophpbia which seem to be a mental disorder.

No need to fear them boy.

You're ancestors would shit on you for converting to Islam and spitting on your culture, you Ottoman sidekick.

[Arianiti]

You're ancestors would shit on you for converting to Islam and spitting on your culture, you Ottoman sidekick.

I will shit on you if you don't stop being so sensitive religion-wise. So you know what my ancestors think. What is the most important thing here is that we do not share religion with peasants like you.

Go to church now as your priest is calling you, ding-dong, ding-dong, ding-dong

[mikhail]

I will shit on you if you don't stop being so sensitive religion-wise. So you know what my ancestors think. What is the most important thing here is that we do not share religion with peasants like you.

The religion of the first Albanian state was Roman Catholicly, and you traded that for Islam. You got ripped off.

[Empecinado]

The Empire had all the prerequisites for survival and a potential for it to be a higher power with it's geostrategical position and resources, what dragged them down were ethnic non-Turks which they had failled to wipe out or assimilate with their initial conquests of the territory unlike the Anglo Saxons in Americas and Australia or the Germans in Prussia. I still hold to my idea, that what took them down was the multiculturism maintained by archaic Islamic laws which were incompatible with the changing world they found themselves in.

The Ottomans were a proud lion which was drained of life by flees rather than other apex players.

We played a big role on that, Spain beat them and stopped their expansion many times, and we lost to them only when we were extremely exceeded in number and yet causing them a heavy number of casualties.

[Arianiti]

The religion of the first Albanian state was Roman Catholicly, and you traded that for Islam. You got ripped off.

Yeah maybe we should go back to roman Catholicism, but do not have time now as I have some other important things to do. First, top priorities.

[TheGoldenSon]

That was before the Turks passed from there and massacred them all. Tamerlane alone massacred 17 million people, all of the Turks more than 100 million people, remember?

Necessities of Imperialism, yet I doubt that the number was that high. But for me to as a Slav to pretend that my people where any better than them while I speak on a Slavic language and walk over the bones of the native Latins and Illyrians would be beyond hypocritical, same can be said for any American or Australian.


Nomadic is the opposite of Civilized.

Yes?


Their hold over the entire territory of the East Roman empire was only the result of an extensive genocide.

I would rather say it was an effect of an effective administration and laxer tax policy rather than it's predecesor.


I could also hold on Bosnia for many centuries if I kill half the Bosniak population during the conquest (and that is what the Ottomans did with most of the Balkans, maybe they couldn't catch all of you in the mountains).

Their mistake they didn't finish the job in Bosnia and the rest of Balkans.


The Turks were too few to try to make everybody a Turk during the Ottoman conquests. If they tried, they would have failed for sure, because they were less than 5% of the total population in Turkey alone, not to mention the entire empire...

The region has many more of such precidents with massive linguistical and cultural shifts, like the Arab expansion with the rise of Islam falls first to my mind and the procentages were much more in favor of the non Arabs.


...Yet they did exactly that during the collapse of the Ottoman empire. You can ask the Armenians, the Greeks, the Kurds, the Assyrians e.t.c.

Too little too late they realized their mistake and the benefits of having a homogenous population.

[Petros Houhoulis]

nice summary, even despite the multicultural pressure and growth of nationalism in the empire, it still would've survived intact had the Central powers not have lost the war, otherwise, it could've also survived if there the Turkish national struggle against invaders wasn't there (which would've been horrible considering the Ottoman empire proposed by the treaty of Sevres had drained away much of its' traditional heartland)

Actually, had the CUP led by the three pashas hadn't seized power from the Ottoman porte, then they would've never joined the Central powers, there would be no British plan to incite the Arab revolt although Russia would've still been a massive threat.

The last time I checked, those Albanians of Muhammad Ali threatened the Ottomans so bad, they had to rely upon British and Austrian troops to survive a conquest by their Egyptian subordinates, and yet some fools still think that the Ottoman empire could have made it to this day!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian%E2%80%93Ottoman_War_(1839%E2%80%9341)

It was just a matter of time fools!

[Shah-Jehan]

The religion of the first Albanian state was Roman Catholicly, and you traded that for Islam. You got ripped off.

The language of the first Bulgars were Oguric Turkic and you guys traded it for South Slavic, not to mention the adoption of Byzantine Orthodox Christianity and discarding of Tengriism.

Not insulting you but, just pointing out that things change in a nation and one has to live with it, there's no point of insulting others.

[Shah-Jehan]

The last time I checked, those Albanians of Muhammad Ali threatened the Ottomans so bad, they had to rely upon British and Austrian troops to survive a conquest by their Egyptian subordinates, and yet some fools still think that the Ottoman empire could have made it to this day!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian%E2%80%93Ottoman_War_(1839%E2%80%9341)

It was just a matter of time fools!

They weren't a modernized army back then. After the Russo-Turkish war of the late 1800's, the Ottomans had adopted a modern military structure with German help and during the Greco-Turkish war of 1897, they were almost conquering Greece, had not the British and other great powers intervened and proposed the sides to sign a peace treaty. The post-tanzimat Empire was way different than before.

[mikhail]

The language of the first Bulgars were Oguric Turkic and you guys traded it for South Slavic, not to mention the adoption of Byzantine Orthodox Christianity and discarding of Tengriism.

Not insulting you but, just pointing out that things change in a nation and one has to live with it, there's no point of insulting others.

The Bulgar language was a variation of the Oghur Turkic language, the Chuvashians from Volga Bulgaria preserved the Bulgar language and the Bulgar language is now the basis of modern Chuvashian, I wouldn't care that much if we returned to using the Bulgar language.

[Shah-Jehan]

The Bulgar language was a variation of the Oghur Turkic language, the Chuvashians from Volga Bulgaria preserved the Bulgar language and the Bulgar language is now the basis of modern Chuvashian, I wouldn't care that much if we returned to using the Bulgar language.

The last part would be horrible for Bulgarians who will lose much of their culture, literature and the sense of nationalism itself, as it will be a defiance of history of more than a millennium.

[mikhail]

The last part would be horrible for Bulgarians who will lose much of their culture, literature and the sense of nationalism itself, as it will be a defiance of history of more than a millennium.

I think that the Bulgar language should be resurrected in the form of becoming the secondary language of Bulgaria. What is known of the Bulgar language should be taught as a second language in Bulgarian schools, and given some official status, while the Bulgarian language remains the primary language, in my opinion. I meant the return of the Bulgar language being used in Bulgaria with some form of official status, not the entire eradication of the Bulgarian language, maybe I didn't state that properly.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Necessities of Imperialism, yet I doubt that the number was that high. But for me to as a Slav to pretend that my people where any better than them while I speak on a Slavic language and walk over the bones of the native Latins and Illyrians would be beyond hypocritical, same can be said for any American or Australian.

Of course the Turks were more effective than you Bosniaks shall ever be but... civilized??? C'mon now!


Yes?

Yes, Nomadic is the opposite of Civilized


I would rather say it was an effect of an effective administration and laxer tax policy rather than it's predecesor.

The tax policy was not laxer. The Ottoman empire collapsed for economic reasons after all! Of course Muslims like you payed fewer taxes, that is why you are so deluded about the Ottomans!


Their mistake they didn't finish the job in Bosnia and the rest of Balkans.

If they had finished the job in the Balkans, neither me nor you would exist today. Of course your absence would not be a problem even for you, but I have a different opinion about myself.


The region has many more of such precidents with massive linguistical and cultural shifts, like the Arab expansion with the rise of Islam falls first to my mind and the procentages were much more in favor of the non Arabs.

The people conquered by the Arabs also spoke a Semitic language, as the Arabs themselves speak. This is why the transformation was way easier than that of the transformation of Turkey. The Middle East was only superficially Hellenized after Alexander the Great, you know!


Too little too late they realized their mistake and the benefits of having a homogenous population.

Nope, every empire is by definition multicultural, or else it would not survive. They simply switched from religion to ethnicity when they no longer commander an empire, much like the "emperor" Theodore Laskaris of the "empire of Nikaea" switched from Christian "Roman" identity to Greek, right after 1204...

[Shah-Jehan]

I think that the Bulgar language should be resurrected in the form of becoming the secondary language of Bulgaria. What is known of the Bulgar language should be taught as a second language in Bulgarian schools, and given some official status, while the Bulgarian language remains the primary language, in my opinion. I meant the return of the Bulgar language being used in Bulgaria with some form of official status, not the entire eradication of the Bulgarian language, maybe I didn't state that properly.
Yeah, I support that idea like revival of Gaelic in Ireland for e.g. but, much of the Bulgar language has been lost and even the Chuvash language which is closely related to old Bulgar, is pretty different from Bulgar which will probably sound more archaic, though, Turkic languages are very close to each other in grammar and syntax.

[TheGoldenSon]

Of course the Turks were more effective than you Bosniaks shall ever be but... civilized??? C'mon now!

Qualify civilization? Do you mean Western civilization? Is it sedentary lifestyle with urban centres of commerce and industry to dot the land with a tax system based on currency and a bureaucracy/standing military to maintain the system?



Yes, Nomadic is the opposite of Civilized.

Okay?


The tax policy was not laxer.

Large empire, greater population means a bigger tax poll which results in a smaller taxes.


The Ottoman empire collapsed for economic reasons after all!

Missmenagment of resources caused the economic collapse which sparked national revolt which put more strain on the treasury. That wouldn't be much of a problem had the Turks did what their Anglo-Saxon counterparts did. Economic collapses in homogen countries would only lead to eventual cultural change which in the long run and in most cases results in greater efficiency of the state.


Of course Muslims like you payed fewer taxes, that is why you are so deluded about the Ottomans!

Offcourse we payed fewer taxes as could have your ancestors if they served in the Ottoman military as was compulsory for all Muslims, which was much more harmful to Muslims in the long run because all MALES were required to fight for the empire and the sultan's call.

While that "evil Islamic tax" is still in effect with any nation with a draft and in which there is an option to evade the military service in exchange for higher taxes like Turkey, Germany and Russia.


If they had finished the job in the Balkans, neither me nor you would exist today. Of course your absence would not be a problem even for you, but I have a different opinion about myself.

I was talking from an objective standpoint and about a hypothetical case.


The people conquered by the Arabs also spoke a Semitic language, as the Arabs themselves speak. This is why the transformation was way easier than that of the transformation of Turkey. The Middle East was only superficially Hellenized after Alexander the Great, you know!

And there were many more Roman Alexanders which upheld his Hellenisation/Romanization campaings, yet all those Berber and Indo-European languages where wipped away by Arabic language and culture with a little bit of preasure in the right places.


Nope, every empire is by definition multicultural, or else it would not survive. They simply switched from religion to ethnicity when they no longer commander an empire, much like the "emperor" Theodore Laskaris of the "empire of Nikaea" switched from Christian "Roman" identity to Greek, right after 1204...

Had they used the Japanese or Chinise aproach to their empire and their stances to the conquered peoples, the religion/ethnity problem would have never arisen.

[Armenian Bishop]

Destruction? No we didn't. We contributed to culture, architecture and two world empires, the Seljuks and Ottomans.

Ani, also known as the city of 1,001 churches, was a wealthy, formidably fortified Armenian City in the medieval kingdom of Bagratid Armenia (885-1045). Ani, enriched by the silk road trade routes, was crowned with architectural masterpieces, it served as the capitol of Bagradid Armenia (961-1045). After a 25 day siege, Ani, with a population of 200,000 fell to the Seljuk Turks in 1064, a few decades after the Byzantines destabilized the Armenian Kingdom and absorbed it into their empire. The Seljuk Turks slaughtered the people of Ani, those whom escaped slaughter were sold into slavery, the city was sacked and pillaged by the Turks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagratid_Armenia

Perhaps, 100,000 Armenians in Ani were slaughtered, and more than 50,000 were sold into slavery in 1064 AD. The city never fully recovered from this carnage and pillaging, and eventually, irreversibly fell into the condition of a ghost town. The Arab historian, Sibt ibn al-Jawzi recorded an eye witness account of the slaughter, destruction and pillaging of Ani (1064), at the hands of the Turks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ani#cite_note-20

“The army entered the city, massacred its inhabitants, pillaged and burned it, leaving it in ruins and taking prisoner all those who remained alive...The dead bodies were so many that they blocked the streets; one could not go anywhere without stepping over them. And the number of prisoners was not less than 50,000 souls. I was determined to enter city and see the destruction with my own eyes. I tried to find a street in which I would not have to walk over the corpses; but that was impossible.”
http://lisao.travellerspoint.com/12/


That painting is a bullshit, an imagination, and it is brought here as a proof for Ottoman violence. Very serious.

I do not know what happened during ottoman times as many lies were spread since, but I do not hate today Turks and do not fear them of course. :P

When the Seljuk Turks first succeeded in their endeavor to invade Armenia, in the 11th Century, they rounded up tens of thousands of Armenians and sold them into slavery.

[Petros Houhoulis]

They weren't a modernized army back then. After the Russo-Turkish war of the late 1800's, the Ottomans had adopted a modern military structure with German help and during the Greco-Turkish war of 1897, they were almost conquering Greece, had not the British and other great powers intervened and proposed the sides to sign a peace treaty. The post-tanzimat Empire was way different than before.

In other words, without the Europeans, the Ottomans were doomed. The Ottomans barely made any territorial gains in the war of 1897, I don't get it where you see they were about to conquer Greece. The post-Tanzimat empire was simply hanging from the Germans' balls, because the Ottoman empire copied only some military traits from the Germans. They didn't copy their industry, and their economy kept sinking... Not to mention the failure of their democratic reforms e.t.c.

[Shah-Jehan]

In other words, without the Europeans, the Ottomans were doomed. The Ottomans barely made any territorial gains in the war of 1897, I don't get it where you see they were about to conquer Greece. The post-Tanzimat empire was simply hanging from the Germans' balls, because the Ottoman empire copied only some military traits from the Germans. They didn't copy their industry, and their economy kept sinking... Not to mention the failure of their democratic reforms e.t.c.

The territorial expansion is a fact, Greece was very tiny before Balkan wars.

Actually, without Britain/Germany/Russia, the modern republic of Greece would've never even existed.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Qualify civilization? Do you mean Western civilization? Is it sedentary lifestyle with urban centres of commerce and industry to dot the land with a tax system based on currency and a bureaucracy/standing military to maintain the system?

Civilization is an organized way of life which helps in many aspects of life. I cannot analyse the nature of civilization here (since not all civilizations are the same) but a basic feature of civilization is not to let people die in scores for no apparent reason, like earthquakes, workplace accidents, the police shooting at them or the government killing them in various ways, deaths by road rage or honor killings. All of the above are proof that the Turks are NOT CIVILIZED.



Okay?

Well, if you have grasped it, good for you!


Large empire, greater population means a bigger tax poll which results in a smaller taxes.

Not if you keep making genocides upon your population in order to keep them in check! Other things are also at play like industry. India has a huge population, but I don't think they amass much of tax revenues.


Missmenagment of resources caused the economic collapse which sparked national revolt which put more strain on the treasury. That wouldn't be much of a problem had the Turks did what their Anglo-Saxon counterparts did. Economic collapses in homogen countries would only lead to eventual cultural change which in the long run and in most cases results in greater efficiency of the state.

The lack of industry and trade was a main reason for the collapse of the Ottoman empire. The #1 problem was the disdain of the Muslims to have any contact with non-Muslim people. This is why the Greeks, the Armenians and the Jews dominated trade and later the industry, which granted them disproportionate power and facilitated their rebellions. If you take a look at the list of the Ottoman ambassadors in London, you shall notice that for the best part of the 19th century, they were Greeks. The same applied for many others who worked within the Porte as translators, bureaucrats, e.t.c.


Offcourse we payed fewer taxes as could have your ancestors if they served in the Ottoman military as was compulsory for all Muslims, which was much more harmful to Muslims in the long run because all MALES were required to fight for the empire and the sultan's call.

Don't blame me for your stupidity. I didn't force you to become Muslim!


While that "evil Islamic tax" is still in effect with any nation with a draft and in which there is an option to evade the military service in exchange for higher taxes like Turkey, Germany and Russia.

Not yet in Greece, and above all you don't have to change religion if you wish to pay your military service in any of those countries!


I was talking from an objective standpoint and about a hypothetical case.

I was also writing from an objective standpoint, and my notion that you are dead from the neck upwards is not merely a hypothesis. You just proved it!!!


And there were many more Roman Alexanders which upheld his Hellenisation/Romanization campaings, yet all those Berber and Indo-European languages where wipped away by Arabic language and culture with a little bit of preasure in the right places.

Nope, the Hellenization of the region was superficial. The old languages were never persecuted. Take a look at the Rosetta stone and you shall realize that at times even Ancient Egyptian (Hieroglyphic) had an official status, something that was not the case in Persian times before or Roman times later, but shows very clearly the way the Macedonian rulers of Egypt treated the local people and culture.


Had they used the Japanese or Chinise aproach to their empire and their stances to the conquered peoples, the religion/ethnity problem would have never arisen.

Not really. Japan was homogeneous since some South Koreans conquered the island, except from Hokkaido, and the Chinese still have linguistic minorities like the Manchu in the north, the Tibetans and the Uighurs in the east and a few more in their south...

[Shah-Jehan]

the Tibetans and the Uighurs in the east and a few more in their south...

They are from the west:picard2:

[Kamal900]

Civilization is an organized way of life which helps in many aspects of life. I cannot analyse the nature of civilization here (since not all civilizations are the same) but a basic feature of civilization is not to let people die in scores for no apparent reason, like earthquakes, workplace accidents, the police shooting at them or the government killing them in various ways, deaths by road rage or honor killings. All of the above are proof that the Turks are NOT CIVILIZED.Well, if you have grasped it, good for you!Not if you keep making genocides upon your population in order to keep them in check! Other things are also at play like industry. India has a huge population, but I don't think they amass much of tax revenues.The lack of industry and trade was a main reason for the collapse of the Ottoman empire. The #1 problem was the disdain of the Muslims to have any contact with non-Muslim people. This is why the Greeks, the Armenians and the Jews dominated trade and later the industry, which granted them disproportionate power and facilitated their rebellions. If you take a look at the list of the Ottoman ambassadors in London, you shall notice that for the best part of the 19th century, they were Greeks. The same applied for many others who worked within the Porte as translators, bureaucrats, e.t.c.Don't blame me for your stupidity. I didn't force you to become Muslim!Not yet in Greece, and above all you don't have to change religion if you wish to pay your military service in any of those countries!I was also writing from an objective standpoint, and my notion that you are dead from the neck upwards is not merely a hypothesis. You just proved it!!!Nope, the Hellenization of the region was superficial. The old languages were never persecuted. Take a look at the Rosetta stone and you shall realize that at times even Ancient Egyptian (Hieroglyphic) had an official status, something that was not the case in Persian times before or Roman times later, but shows very clearly the way the Macedonian rulers of Egypt treated the local people and culture.

Not really. Japan was homogeneous since some South Koreans conquered the island, except from Hokkaido, and the Chinese still have linguistic minorities like the Manchu in the north, the Tibetans and the Uighurs in the east and a few more in their south...

True, Alexandria is a prime example of harmonious coexistence between hellenic and egyptians cultures melding together. People dont understand that the word, Hellenization, dosent mean forcing people in accepting greek language and identity, but rather accepting greek culture and blending it with your own native one in peace. Alexander the great was considered to be a hero in both babylon and egypt for freeing them from the clutches of the persian kings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjQ6lbwN9R8
The egypto-greeks in the 19th and 20th centuries dominated egypt economy, and contributed the country in being a rich, stable country. Shame that Jamal Abdul Nasser kicked most of them out of the country, and contributed egypt's political and economic demise in the future. Btw, the Burqa wasnt even invented by the arabs or the persians, it was the turks who invented it, and really, there werent much emphasis in learning and education in the ottoman empire either.

[Petros Houhoulis]

The territorial expansion is a fact, Greece was very tiny before Balkan wars.

Actually, without Britain/Germany/Russia, the modern republic of Greece would've never even existed.

Without Britain/Austrian empire/Russia not even the Ottoman empire would exist. Mohammed Ali was ready to conquer the entire Ottoman empire right after the Greek revolution.

Without British/French empire, the Ottomans would have also lost the Crimean war to Russia.

So?

[Petros Houhoulis]

They are from the west:picard2:

O.K., I made one mistake. It happens from time to time.

Still I am not a Muslim!

[Shah-Jehan]

Without Britain/Austrian empire/Russia not even the Ottoman empire would exist. Mohammed Ali was ready to conquer the entire Ottoman empire right after the Greek revolution.

Without British/French empire, the Ottomans would have also lost the Crimean war to Russia.

So?
The establishment of Greece by the great powers was decades before the Crimean war.

[Petros Houhoulis]

True, Alexandria is a prime example of harmonious coexistence between hellenic and egyptians cultures melding together. People dont understand that the word, Hellenization, dosent mean forcing people in accepting greek language and identity, but rather accepting greek culture and blending it with your own native one in peace. Alexander the great was considered to be a hero in both babylon and egypt for freeing them from the clutches of the persian kings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjQ6lbwN9R8
The egypto-greeks in the 19th and 20th centuries dominated egypt economy, and contributed the country in being a rich, stable country. Shame that Jamal Abdul Nasser kicked most of them out of the country, and contributed egypt's political and economic demise in the future. Btw, the Burqa wasnt even invented by the arabs or the persians, it was the turks who invented it, and really, there werent much emphasis in learning and education in the ottoman empire either.

Also the other way around. We had a few Serapeums, one in Thessalonika, another somewhere in modern Turkey!

[Petros Houhoulis]

The establishment of Greece by the great powers was decades before the Crimean war.

Yes, but the Greeks were still there, and so were all of the other minorities. The Ottoman empire could not function without them at that point, because they controlled the economy, because the Muslims were too stupid to trade with other people...

[BigBlackBeast]

just copycats.. that is original

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZCsYWRu4bI

LOL! Original what? WTF is this ungainly bastardised crap?


The jury might still be out as to whether this form of music/dance was born amongst the Laz or amongst the Greeks of the Pontus , but the extent of both the ‘Horon’ and the Pontian lyra resembles quite closely, and very suspiciously, the extent of the old ‘Empire’ of Trebizond. Very, very suspiciously indeed. This was also the same range of the peculiar Greek folk songs and ballads of the region that had no doubt been performed to the accompaniment of the lyra for countless generations.

However, one thing is for sure; neither the Horon nor the native lyra have anything to do with the Chepni Turkomans who invaded the area much later. The kingdom of Trebizond had developed a distinct Greek character of its own; its own institutions, history, culture and traditions and its unique form of – quite archaic – Greek. Basically it had its own identity - all this long before the arrival of the Turks who eventually destroyed it. Yet now these same Turks apparently want to claim its musical traditions! … Faaaaark!

BTW, if it had been the Laz who conceived this style of dance and music, why did it take off only amongst the Greeks of Pontus rather than towards their Georgian cousins? Why isn’t it pan-Georgian to some extent? It makes more sense that this musical tradition was actually centred in the Trapezuntine kingdom (as per the current range of the Horon and the kemenche) and to have influenced, and expanded towards, the Georgian periphery that bordered it (ie the Laz).? That is not to say that there is not a Georgian (Laz/Tzan) component within the Greeks of the region – this is undeniable; the Pontian Greeks certainly subsumed a part of this group.

[denz]

Fun interpretation.
I suppose then 90%+ of people have kneeled to Jews and that's why they hate them.

I like how people like gültekin exist, hating Jews when in reality, they are the closest thing you can find to Anatolian Turks. Dubious backgrounds, hateful identity and civilizational destruction left and right.

Nope, contrarily, Jews are one of rare that, there is no any blood-spill between Jews and Turks except Marmara scam. I don't think he is Jews-hater.

Arab fringe supporters are Jew-hater like Erdogan.

Civilizational destruction happened only those in due time ...

[portusaus]

No, Turkic blood is a genetic disorder.

[Leliana]

The Germans who hate Turks are mainly young, uninformed ones who don't have a good grasp of history yet.
Neither is true. I'm well read in all kind of European history and it's obvious to anyone with open eyes that Turkic tribes have always been troublemakers at the gates of Europe, trying to gain territory from ours and trying to pollute occupied territories with their malevolent Non-European practices, customs, ideologies and ethics. That's why Asia Minor, once at least a periphery of Europe (Galatia, Lycia, Bitynia, Phyrgia, etc.) fell to a Anterior Asiatic tribe: The Turks. The Turks basically ruined the remains of the Eastern Roman Empire and captured Konstantinopel. Later they conquered the Balkans like a vile plague and brought constant subjugation, pressure, turmoil and cruelty to that lands and their tribes, the Balkans still suffers today from centuries of Turkish oppression. They still thirsted for more and tried to get their hands on Central Europe (with the 'golden apple' Vienna) more than once, but for the sake of our gods they could be ultimately stopped by united European powers and be driven back behind the Bosporus in the subsequent time by the glorious and rightous 'Holy League'. :)

The victory of us European people over the Turks was one of the few questions of fate for our continent. But the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and it seems that soon the time will come again to fight back that horde from our lands and our soils.


Germans used to get along very well with Turks indeed. Germany and Turkey (the OE) were allied in WW1. Hitler also spoke well of them.
Germany has made many false decisions in WW1. Allying with Turkey for strategical reasons (like weakening the British, not for any other reasons) was one of them.

And that Adolf Hitler spoke well of them...really doesn't make your choice shine in a good light. :picard2:

[Pennywise]

Neither is true. I'm well read in all kind of European history and it's obvious to anyone with open eyes that Turkic tribes have always been troublemakers at the gates of Europe, trying to gain territory from ours and trying to pollute occupied territories with their malevolent Non-European practices, customs, ideologies and ethics. That's why Asia Minor, once at least a periphery of Europe (Galatia, Lycia, Bitynia, Phyrgia, etc.) fell to a Anterior Asiatic tribe: The Turks. The Turks basically ruined the remains of the Eastern Roman Empire and captured Konstantinopel. Later they conquered the Balkans like a vile plague and brought constant subjugation, pressure, turmoil and cruelty to that lands and their tribes. They still thirsted for more and tried to get their hands on Central Europe (with the 'golden apple' Vienna) more than once, but for the sake of our gods they could be ultimately stopped by united European powers and be driven back behind the Bosporus in the subsequent time by the glorious and rightous 'Holy League'. :)

The victory of us European people over the Turks was one of the few questions of fate for our continent. But the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and it seems that soon the time will come again to fight back that horde from our lands and our soils.


Germany has made many false decisions in WW1. Allying with Turkey for strategical reasons (like weakening the British, not for any other reasons) was one of them.

And that Adolf Hitler spoke well of them...really doesn't make your choice shine in a good light. :picard2:

Here we go again...

"We", "our lands", "our home" there is no such thing sweethearth can't you get it? You're thinking and acting like a little girl.

[Borna]

I am really curious how Turkish immigrants don't feel any shame in living another country ?

Why is so hard to go home ? When i go 10 days on vacation i still want to get back home.

[Borna]

"We", "our lands", "our home" there is no such thing sweethearth can't you get it? You're thinking and acting like a little girl.

Who we are if we are not "We" ? Whos land is one built by my ancestors, defended by my ancestors, farmed by my ancestors ? How can place my ancestors built and shed blood for it in 500 years of constant war be your home ?

[Bloodnigger]

We are talking about some of the densly populated regions on the planet nestled in some of the most fertile river valleys which have spawned first civilizations.

I think you quite forgot what Timur did to mesopotamia and how he killed the only affluent period islam had with one stroke.

I will not even mention Yuan China and to what an extent the mongols managed to destabilize it in a very short reign.

[mikhail]

Funny how ultranationalist Turk immigrants in Germany don't feel any shame for invading a real European's land.

[Shah-Jehan]

Funny how ultranationalist Turk immigrants in Germany don't feel any shame for invading a real European's land.

When do invaders ever get invited into a country like the Turks did?

[mikhail]

When do invaders ever get invited into a country like the Turks did?

When your leaders care about you even less than usual :rolleyes:

[Shah-Jehan]

or When your democratically elected who the majority voted to leadership, leaders care about you even less than usual :rolleyes:

Fixed


The Turks did the menial work that the Germans never wanted to do, Turks were not the only ones, there were people from the balkans such as Serbs, Italians etc who were invited but, Turks get blamed because they form the largest immigrant population even though the recent trend in Germany is that Turks are slowly moving back to Turkey.

[mikhail]

Fixed


The Turks did the menial work that the Germans never wanted to do, Turks were not the only ones, there were people from the balkans such as Serbs, Italians etc who were invited but, Turks get blamed because they form the largest immigrant population even though the recent trend in Germany is that Turks are slowly moving back to Turkey.

You seem to be living in an ideal world, where corruption doesn't exist and the government does exactly what the people want them to do.

[Bloodnigger]

Fixed


The Turks did the menial work that the Germans never wanted to do, Turks were not the only ones, there were people from the balkans such as Serbs, Italians etc who were invited but, Turks get blamed because they form the largest immigrant population even though the recent trend in Germany is that Turks are slowly moving back to Turkey.

Greeks and Italians were also quite big minorities. Now they are mostly doctors or engineers. The places I interned at were run by a greek second gen immigrant and the other two by similar italians.

Why are Turks still running kebab shops and causing all the trouble? Before the EU crisis, I never heard or read a complaint about them.

[Borna]

When do invaders ever get invited into a country like the Turks did?

When you were "invited" no one invited several millions of you, dirty subhumans.

[Shah-Jehan]

You seem to be living in an ideal world, where corruption doesn't exist and the government does exactly what the people want them to do.

This was back in the 1960s/1970s where Germany was still growing as one of the strongest economies in Europe and they needed a larger workforce to suit the economic needs and these "gastarbeiters" suited these labour needs and helped Germany prosper and it was indeed in good for Germany (at least at the time) to invite such foreign labour, even today, the German population is decreasing.


Greeks and Italians were also quite big minorities. Now they are mostly doctors or engineers. The places I interned at were run by a greek second gen immigrant and the other two by similar italians.

Why are Turks still running kebab shops and causing all the trouble? Before the EU crisis, I never heard or read a complaint about them.
Not all Turks run Kebab shops and very few "cause trouble". Many are professionals in various areas as well, we cannot generalize. But, the cause of this indifference between immigrant groups is probably because the Turks of Germany came from rural districts of the Turkish black sea coast or Central-East Anatolia, both of which are highly conservative and at that time, economically very inequal to the Turkish west.

This would not have been the case had most Turkish immigrants came from the Marmara or western Turkey in general, for e.g. there's 500,000 Turks in Britain who are mostly Cypriots and they are prosperous and same could be said about the USA for e.g.

[Shah-Jehan]

When you were "invited" no one invited several millions of you, dirty subhumans.

I am not Turkish, Saqaliba.

[Ars Moriendi]

Kind of funny to say you were "invited" when in reality, the American government, eager to pacify Turkey for its own geopolitical aims, forces the puppet government in Bonn to accept a massive influx of Turkish vermin.

Germany is an occupied country with a semi-autonomous government, and it shows so much that it's evident when you care to take off the blindfold. Getting their gold stolen withot any real justification, getting their leadership under total surveillance without the right to complain, getting their military industries to donate important assets for free to Israel just to please AIPAC and Zionist advocacy group, all while demonizing and ridiculing any political movement that points the obvious critical situation under hollow epithets is what Bonn, and now Berlin, have done for decades now.

[Bloodnigger]

Not all Turks run Kebab shops and very few "cause trouble". Many are professionals in various areas as well, we cannot generalize. But, the cause of this indifference between immigrant groups is probably because the Turks of Germany came from rural districts of the Turkish black sea coast or Central-East Anatolia, both of which are highly conservative and at that time, economically very inequal to the Turkish west.

This would not have been the case had most Turkish immigrants came from the Marmara or western Turkey in general, for e.g. there's 500,000 Turks in Britain who are mostly Cypriots and they are prosperous and same could be said about the USA for e.g.

As someone who has been living in germany for some time, I can tell you that this is bull. The only western turks you find are actually recent arrivals and mostly students. Instead of Kemaliste you'll find the turkish version of Dralos 90% of the time in germany.

[Shah-Jehan]

As someone who has been living in germany for some time, I can tell you that this is bull. The only western turks you find are actually recent arrivals and mostly students. Instead of Kemaliste you'll find the turkish version of Dralos 90% of the time in germany.

that's exactly what I said.

[Bloodnigger]

that's exactly what I said.

No, you implied that importing the modern turkish lower class will make a difference. The recent arrivals are students who study in germany which implies they can afford it and come from developed areas in turkey. The turkish masses that came over early on and still populate germany are like day or night compared to them.

While most other immigrants, like the ones I mentioned, either intergrated and made their way up or got their money and went back home when things became better, turks kept causing the same troubles. They seriously act like niggers, especially the younger ones which I can't understand. They all have that RAP BRAUCHT KEIN ABITUR EITER attitude.

Unsurprisingly, most muslim immigrants do too. So it's not a turkish phenomenon, it's a durka durka one and it persists.