Dravidians genetics = Mongoloid / East Asians but not African , Caucasian , Australoid

[ButlerKing]

Sometimes I don't get it. Dravidians cluster with the Mongoloid race


" According to Bamshad et. al. (2002): To test whether samples from India could be distinguished in an analysis of samples from all three continents, we added samples from Africa and reanalyzed the data. This time, the best estimate of K was 3, and the assignment to the correct population was >98% for samples from sub-Saharan Africa, East Asia, and Europe. The samples from southern India were assigned predominantly to the cluster of East Asians (84%), though some of them (16%) were assigned to the cluster containing Europeans.According to Watkins et al. "


" (2003): A two-dimensional principal components plot of the 31 populations (Fig. 4A) demonstrates clustering of the African, E. Asian, and European populations, with the Indian caste populations located between the E. Asian and European populations (as in the network in Fig. 3).Indians are intermediate between east Asians and Europeans, with south Indians (Dravidians) being closely related to east Asians. "

[ButlerKing]

Know isn't this funny?

Dravidians are genetically East Asians like other Mongoloid yet physically they have straight hair, hairy bodies and long nosebridge like Caucasians, and dark skin like Negroid. And yet they have little to 0% to them.

[ButlerKing]

This is crazy shit ! It says Dravidians are something between North Indians and people of Malaysia, Singapore, China


"In a 2009 study of 132 individuals, 560,000 single-nucleotide polymorphisms in 25 different Indian groups were analyzed, providing strong evidence in support of the notion that modern Indians are a hybrid population descending from two pre-historic, genetically divergent populations[citation needed], one of which, referred to as the 'Ancestral North Indians', 40,000 years ago and the other, called the 'Ancestral South Indians', 60,000 years ago. The intermingling of ANI's and ASI's happened in the same period as the ANI's first appeared, 40,000 years ago.[18] The study also holds, that the caste system grew out of tribal-like organizations of the Indian society. In another study of 2009 conducted among 10 Asian countries, Dravidian peoples showed similarities with north Indians as well as peoples of Malaysia, Singapore and China.[19] "

[ButlerKing]

SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN.

[ButlerKing]

READ THIS

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22406710


Indian J Dent Res. 2011 Sep-Oct;22(5):664-8. doi: 10.4103/0970-9290.93453.

A comparison of lip prints between Aryans-Dravidians and Mongols.

Prasad P1; Vanishree.



" Indians are closer to Mongoloids than to Caucasoids or Negroids as indicated by the phylogenetic tree. Most of the studies on lip prints are done in their own population. We have compared lip prints of Manipuris with other Indians (Aryans and Dravidians) who are both close to Mongoloid race and are genetically similar. "

[Kale]

People similar to South Indians once occupied parts of Southeast Asia before Mongols came in. Then Southeast Asians migrated into the East of India as a minority, though not an insignificant ones. That and there was maritime contacts between India and Southeast Asia in (what in the west we'd call) the middle ages.

That and you're quoting studies from 2002...that is practically the stone ages in genetics.

[ButlerKing]

People similar to South Indians once occupied parts of Southeast Asia before Mongols came in. Then Southeast Asians migrated into the East of India as a minority, though not an insignificant ones. That and there was maritime contacts between India and Southeast Asia in (what in the west we'd call) the middle ages.

That and you're quoting studies from 2002...that is practically the stone ages in genetics.


I also quite studies from 2008 and 2011. Why don't you try find me one study that doesn't claim South Indians are related with East Asian genetically.

[Kale]

I also quite studies from 2008 and 2011. Why don't you try find me one study that doesn't claim South Indians are related with East Asian genetically.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TEdgg08HnTI/AAAAAAAACgg/SHVjodGXK8g/s1600/eurasian-pca.jpg

About as far from East Asians as Europeans are.

[ButlerKing]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TEdgg08HnTI/AAAAAAAACgg/SHVjodGXK8g/s1600/eurasian-pca.jpg

About as far from East Asians as Europeans are.


Um no, this chart clearly shows they are still closer to East Asians. They are obviously closest to South Asian and form a cluster with South Indian groups but they are still closer to East Asian. Look at Thai to Nepalese and Nepalese to South Asian.

Your chart properly correspond to this study, they are 65% East Asian + 35% Western Eurasian.


"
The genetic views on race differ in their classification of Dravidians. According to population geneticist L.L. Cavalli-Sforza of Stanford, based on work done in the 1980s, Indians are genetically Caucasian, but Lewontin rejects the label Caucasian. Cavalli-Sforza found that Indians are about three times closer to West Europeans than to East Asians.[8] Dr. Eduardas Valaitis, in 2006, found that India is genetically closest to East and Southeast Asians with about 15% more genetic similarity than to Europeans; he also found that India could be considered very distinct from other regions.[9] Genetic anthropologist Stanley Marion Garn considered in the 1960s that the entirety of the Indian Subcontinent to be a "race" genetically distinct from other populations.[8][10] Others, such as Lynn B. Jorde and Stephen P. Wooding, claim South Indians are genetic intermediaries between Europeans and East Asians.[11][12][13] "

[Kale]

Um no, this chart clearly shows they are still closer to East Asians. They are obviously closest to South Asian and form a cluster with South Indian groups but they are still closer to East Asian. Look at Thai to Nepalese and Nepalese to South Asian.

Your chart properly correspond to this study, they are 65% East Asian + 35% Western Eurasian.


"
The genetic views on race differ in their classification of Dravidians. According to population geneticist L.L. Cavalli-Sforza of Stanford, based on work done in the 1980s, Indians are genetically Caucasian, but Lewontin rejects the label Caucasian. Cavalli-Sforza found that Indians are about three times closer to West Europeans than to East Asians.[8] Dr. Eduardas Valaitis, in 2006, found that India is genetically closest to East and Southeast Asians with about 15% more genetic similarity than to Europeans; he also found that India could be considered very distinct from other regions.[9] Genetic anthropologist Stanley Marion Garn considered in the 1960s that the entirety of the Indian Subcontinent to be a "race" genetically distinct from other populations.[8][10] Others, such as Lynn B. Jorde and Stephen P. Wooding, claim South Indians are genetic intermediaries between Europeans and East Asians.[11][12][13] "

Nope, try again.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=50724

[ButlerKing]

Nope, try again.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=50724


No No No.... you try again.

There is no plot connection between Western Eurasian and South Asians but there is between Southeast Asian/East Asians



http://i59.tinypic.com/2ikec5h.jpg

[Kale]

No No No.... you try again.

There is no plot connection between Western Eurasian and South Asians but there is between Southeast Asian/East Asians

Please stop being stupid.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=50725

EDIT: I don't even actually know what the hell you mean by "plot connection" but here's a better one.

[ButlerKing]

Please stop being stupid.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=50725

EDIT: I don't even actually know what the hell you mean by "plot connection" but here's a better one.


No man you obviously don't understand



I once e-mail a south Indian proffessor who is close friend of a scientist from North India Delhi and replied to me saying " South Indians have closest affinity and genetic relations with Mongoloids from Southeast Asia "

Your chart clearly shows they are more related with Southeast Asians. It seems to me Southeast Asians are included in the East Asian cluster, now I understand.

Also by plot connection I mean those dots between Southeast Asians and South Asian clearly shows their more linked.


http://i61.tinypic.com/1iip7d.jpg

[Kale]

Yeah, because Southeast Asians are 80% East Asian, 20% South Asian.
1) Proximity
2) Historical contacts

No big surprise.

And for your professoral anecdote....If South Indian ancestry were collected into a "component"...besides other Indians (and probably Pakistanis), Southeast Asians would have the most of that "component".

You need to look at data, not one line conclusions.

Data: 2+2=4. Not much debating that.
One line Conclusions: Let's eat grandpa! (wait, are we telling grandpa that we (he and I) should eat or are we going to eat grandpa!?)

[ButlerKing]

Yeah, because Southeast Asians are 80% East Asian, 20% South Asian.
1) Proximity
2) Historical contacts

No big surprise.

And for your professoral anecdote....If South Indian ancestry were collected into a "component"...besides other Indians (and probably Pakistanis), Southeast Asians would have the most of that "component".

Quite a big exaggeration, most are 2.5 - 5% South Asian

1) South Asian promixity is closer to Southeast Asia

2) Historical contacts is obvious


Not that I want South Indians to be related w since every DNA chart and genetics claim they cluster with Mongoloids I suppose they are Australoids with Mongoloid DNA or that Mongoloids are cold adapted Australoid which explains their close relations.

http://i48.tinypic.com/29o5qj5.jpg

[Kale]

Quite a big exaggeration, most are 2.5 - 5% South Asian

1) South Asian promixity is closer to Southeast Asia

2) Historical contacts is obvious


Not that I want South Indians to be related with them but is isn't convincing since every DNA chart and genetics claim they cluster with Mongoloids

http://i48.tinypic.com/29o5qj5.jpg

1) Exactly what I'm saying! Easy to mix when you're right the fuck next to them.

2) Yep! More chance to mix!

It's blatantly obvious Caucasians, Mongols, and Indians form three separate clusters. Southeast Asians are intermediate between East Asians and South Asians due to admixture.

[ButlerKing]

And for your professoral anecdote....If South Indian ancestry were collected into a "component"...besides other Indians (and probably Pakistanis), Southeast Asians would have the most of that "component".

You need to look at data, not one line conclusions.

Data: 2+2=4. Not much debating that.
One line Conclusions: Let's eat grandpa! (wait, are we telling grandpa that we (he and I) should eat or are we going to eat grandpa!?)


My friend. You obviously didn't know Kurds are 6-13% South Asian, even more South Asian than Thais and yet they are still close to South Indians than Kurds


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l9oDPeNZPoc/Tg32AhSZ3TI/AAAAAAAAAk0/EpWVqfBVc1A/s1600/ADMIXTURE%2BKurd_12.png

[ButlerKing]

1) Exactly what I'm saying! Easy to mix when you're right the fuck next to them.

2) Yep! More chance to mix!

It's blatantly obvious Caucasians, Mongols, and Indians form three separate clusters. Southeast Asians are intermediate between East Asians and South Asians due to admixture.



Lol than I suppose Kurds are intermediate between Western Eurasian and South Asian due to having 2x to 3x higher South Asian admixture than Thais.

[Hadouken]

My friend. You obviously didn't know Kurds are 6-13% South Asian, even more South Asian than Thais and yet they are still close to South Indians than Kurds


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l9oDPeNZPoc/Tg32AhSZ3TI/AAAAAAAAAk0/EpWVqfBVc1A/s1600/ADMIXTURE%2BKurd_12.png

the highest % of south Asian genentic input Kurds have is usually 10% ...range is 5-10%

I told you to stop talking about my people and spreading your propaganda only because you are butthurt

[Kale]

Lol than I suppose Kurds are intermediate between Western Eurasian and South Asian due to having 2x to 3x higher South Asian admixture than Thais.

Well it's getting to be around 11:30, my internet is shitting the bed (as it does this time every night for god knows what reason) don't expect my replies to be too quick.

[ButlerKing]

the highest % of south Asian genentic input Kurds have is usually 10% ...range is 5-10%

I told you to stop talking about my people and spreading your propaganda only because you are butthurt

What the hell, those DNA red color clearly shows more than 10%, go ahead and measure some of them with a ruler.

[Hadouken]

What the hell, those DNA red color clearly shows more than 10%, go ahead and measure some of them with a ruler.

I have read genetic admixture index charts and the highest was always about 10%

I also remember seeing 23andme of several kurds and none exceeded 10%

anyway I dont see how kurds are relevant in this thread anyway ? stop mentioning us in your threads ..are you obsessed with us or what ?

[ButlerKing]

I have read genetic admixture index charts and the highest was always about 10%

I also remember seeing 23andme of several kurds and none exceeded 10%

anyway I dont see how kurds are relevant in this thread anyway ? stop mentioning us in your threads ..are you obsessed with us or what ?

Well maybe not every Kurd study.

Kurds resemble many North Indians I've seen.

[Instinct]

Lol than I suppose Kurds are intermediate between Western Eurasian and South Asian due to having 2x to 3x higher South Asian admixture than Thais.

Actually Kurds have I, and r1b1.

[ButlerKing]

Actually Kurds have I, and r1b1.


They also found many samples with haplogroup L

1x L a.k.a. hg28 (Iraqi Kurds in Nebel et al., 2001)
1x L-M11* (Kurdistan-Iran in Cristofaro et al., 2013)
5x L-M20 (Iraqi Kurds in Stenersen et al., 2004; based on Athey's Haplogroup predictor)
2x L-M20 (Iranian Kurds in Malyarchuk et al., 2013)
1x L1a-M76 (Iranian Kurds in Grugni et al., 2012)
1x L1a-M76 (Kurdistan-Iran in Cristofaro et al., 2013)
1x L1b-M317 (Kurdistan-Iran in Cristofaro et al., 2013)
1x L1c-M357 (Kurdistan-Iran in Cristofaro et al., 2013)

[Hadouken]

Well maybe not every Kurd study.

Kurds resemble many North Indians I've seen.

I highly suspect that you have the right eye to judge how people look because you write mostly nonsense and even said that southern italians look like gypsies etc.

there are SOME north indians that resemble kurds and vice versa but in general ..no ...we are west asians and look like west asians get over it already

[ButlerKing]

I highly suspect that you have the right eye to judge how people look because you write mostly nonsense and even said that southern italians look like gypsies etc.

there are SOME north indians that resemble kurds and vice versa but in general ..no ...we are west asians and look like west asians get over it already

Don't exaggerate, there is several atypical dark skinned Italians that can overlap with gypsies. I never said all Southern Italians look gypsies but quite a few.


Yes and Northwest Indians are generally closer to west Asians too.

[Hadouken]

Don't exaggerate there is several atypical dark skinned Italians that can overlap with gypsies. I never said all Southern Italians look gypsies but quite a few.


Yes and Northwest Indians are generally closer to west Asians too.

gypsies and italians dont overlap at all ....only because a handful of gypsies might resemble them or some atypical swarthy italian gives a "gypsy vibe" it doesnt mean that there is a general overlap

same with kurds and northwest indians

we overlap the MOST with these before anyone else : Anatolian Turks , Armenians , Azeris, Persians , Georgians , Syrians

I showed you many photos and also genetic maps and you still dont believe me and spread nonsense

but you are right that northwest indians can look very west asian and also have west asian genetic input

[ButlerKing]

gypsies and italians dont overlap at all ....only because a handful of gypsies might resemble them or some atypical swarthy italian gives a "gypsy vibe" it doesnt mean that there is a general overlap

same with kurds and northwest indians

we overlap the MOST with these before anyone else : Anatolian Turks , Armenians , Azeris, Persians , Georgians , Syrians

I showed you many photos and also genetic maps and you still dont believe me and spread nonsense

but you are right that northwest indians can look very west asian and also have west asian genetic input


Here is a what a atypical southern Italian look like, they can be found more common in Andalusia spain who were ruled by Moors 700 years. Is also common in a minority of greeks, portugese

http://www.gfdb.com/images%5Cpictures%5Cplayers%5Calessandro-nesta.jpg


Anatolian Turks never claim Kurds look like them though.

[Hadouken]

Here is a what a atypical southern Italian look like, they can be found more common in Andalusia spain who were ruled by Moors 700 years. Is also common in a minority of greeks, portugese

http://www.gfdb.com/images%5Cpictures%5Cplayers%5Calessandro-nesta.jpg


Anatolian Turks never claim Kurds look like them though.

that man doesnt look gypsy ....I dont know what you are seeing

and I know more turks than you ...I am from turkey and know so many turks so I know better what they claim and what not and I know better how turks and kurds look

I have never been guessed as kurd by turks for example and I know many turks who can "pass as kurds" and vice versa

dude dont tell me how my people look you cant win this ffs

[ButlerKing]

that man doesnt look gypsy ....I dont know what you are seeing

and I know more turks than you ...I am from turkey and know so many turks so I know better what they claim and what not and I know better how turks and kurds look

I have never been guessed as kurd by turks for example and I know many turks who can "pass as kurds" and vice versa

dude dont tell me how my people look you cant win this ffs


I've seen many gypsies that look much more white than him. He doesn't look European at all.


Turks always claim Kurds have huge hook noses.

[Hadouken]

I've seen many gypsies that look much more white than him. He doesn't look European at all.


Turks always claim Kurds have huge hook noses.

Some Gypsies are heavily mixed with Europeans so you will have very European looking ones of course ...duh

I bet you dont even know many turks in real life unlike me ....so what can I answer you now ? ...you know that there are problems in turkey so of course certain people will talk bad about others ...you have that in many places where there are conflicts

still you should trust me when I tell you something because I am kurdish and I am originally from turkey and know maaaaany turks (and kurds)

if you have questions you can ask me no problem ....but stop claiming things and talking about us in every 2nd thread of yours

[Empecinado]

Here is a what a atypical southern Italian look like, they can be found more common in Andalusia spain who were ruled by Moors 700 years. Is also common in a minority of greeks, portugese

http://www.gfdb.com/images%5Cpictures%5Cplayers%5Calessandro-nesta.jpg


Anatolian Turks never claim Kurds look like them though.

No.