Are the British really much darker than other Northern Europeans?

[Tooting Carmen]

That seems to be the common belief in the anthro world, and appears to be especially advocated by certain members here like 'Melonhead' and 'Bloody'. Even so, many overlook the fact there are Dutch people like these:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02244/Mark-vanBommel_2244253a.jpghttp://images.tvrage.com/people/84/250795.jpg
And Germans like these:
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/KristaKC10/mats-hummels-versteht-die_zps6ed1308d.jpghttp://www.bayer04.de/bilder//10_11/07_t580/Ulf-Kirsten_0707a.jpghttp://www.wz-newsline.de/polopoly_fs/1.1159347.1353489442!/httpImage/onlineImage.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_300/onlineImage.jpghttp://www.5-freunde-im-abseits.de/wp-content/plugins/2256.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/11/21/books/hari2.184.jpg
And how about these decidedly non-Nordic Scandinavians?
http://multimedia.pol.dk/archive/00679/Forbrydelsen_3_679607a.jpghttp://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2009/6/11/1244713300644/Ingmar-Bergman-005.jpghttp://www.images99.com/i99/02/45166/45166.jpg

[FeederOfRavens]

Darker phenotypes are not found in the same quantities in the Netherlands and Scandinavia as Britain.

[Tooting Carmen]

Darker phenotypes are not found in the same quantities in the Netherlands and Scandinavia as Britain.

I agree, but my point is that I think some people exaggerate the disparity.

[FeederOfRavens]

I agree, but my point is that I think some people exaggerate the disparity.

That's true. "Bloody" has already revealed his aggravations against the British when he called them an ugly people.

[Tooting Carmen]

That's true. "Bloody" has already revealed his aggravations against the British when he called them an ugly people.

Melonhead also regularly trolls the British, saying that Whites in Australia and even the US are 'purer' than them and that the British have got darker through mass mixing with Jews, South Asians, Blacks, Southern Europeans etc.:rolleyes:

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Pure british are mostly blonde or light brown hair, and blue eyes. Some of their dark hair they get from ireland. Most of it comes from jews, italians, french, poles, indians and a million other immigrants in the last 5 centuries.

When anthropologists surveyed england in 1800s black hair was maybe 1-2% in any rural areas and it was virtually 100% light eyes. Now black hair is about 40%, brown eyes about 25%. It's pretty easy to do the math. Even scando countries today are darker than england used to be not that long ago.

That's probably where the bad teeth come from as well. You never see that in Irish people, or colonial americans.

[Tooting Carmen]

Pure british are mostly blonde or light brown hair, and blue eyes. Some of their dark hair they get from ireland. Most of it comes from jews, italians, french, poles, indians and a million other immigrants in the last 5 centuries.

When anthropologists surveyed england in 1800s black hair was maybe 1-2% in any rural areas and it was virtually 100% light eyes. Now black hair is about 40%, brown eyes about 25%. It's pretty easy to do the math. Even scando countries today are darker than england used to be not that long ago.

That's probably where the bad teeth come from as well. You never see that in Irish people, or colonial americans.

Black hair 40%? If you take out immigrants it is nothing like that ffs. Besides, the darker types have always been around. Shakespeare and Dickens were hardly Nordic gods, were they, yet there is no evidence of them having any foreign ancestry. In any case, mass immigration from outside Europe has only really occurred since 1947 when the Windrush arrived, and there was no major European invasion since the Normans in 1066, and all subsequent Euro immigration was pretty small-scale. Quite simply, you are just trolling.

[Tooting Carmen]

Pure british are mostly blonde or light brown hair, and blue eyes. Some of their dark hair they get from ireland. Most of it comes from jews, italians, french, poles, indians and a million other immigrants in the last 5 centuries.

When anthropologists surveyed england in 1800s black hair was maybe 1-2% in any rural areas and it was virtually 100% light eyes. Now black hair is about 40%, brown eyes about 25%. It's pretty easy to do the math. Even scando countries today are darker than england used to be not that long ago.

That's probably where the bad teeth come from as well. You never see that in Irish people, or colonial americans.

Apart from Alistair Cooke, who I myself have said looks part-South Asian, which of these cricket players looks anything other than 'pure British' to you? http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?121547-The-England-cricket-team

[Jackson]

Pure british are mostly blonde or light brown hair, and blue eyes. Some of their dark hair they get from ireland. Most of it comes from jews, italians, french, poles, indians and a million other immigrants in the last 5 centuries.

When anthropologists surveyed england in 1800s black hair was maybe 1-2% in any rural areas and it was virtually 100% light eyes. Now black hair is about 40%, brown eyes about 25%. It's pretty easy to do the math. Even scando countries today are darker than england used to be not that long ago.

That's probably where the bad teeth come from as well. You never see that in Irish people, or colonial americans.

Well the last study looking at shared IBD genetic segments in Europeans found that we are not outbred compared to large neighboring places like Germany and France (but of course more so than smaller, less major nations), and that most of the shared segments with foreigners in recent times were with the Irish (which makes sense of course). Also, I've seen a number of people's results from additional 3rd party runs (which use basically the same technology afaik), and we basically share the vast majority of our recent segments with other British people and with other northwest & nearby Europeans. And plus, if we were subject to much larger amounts of influx from other areas of Europe it would show up in that we would be out of place compared to neighboring populations, which we aren't. So what you say must be true of all northwest Europeans, or none of them. Certainly there have been people from other areas of Europe becoming part of our population - but that is mostly urban and also not enough to make more than a minor genetic change. I have also seen Irish people and colonial Americans with bad teeth, and a many, many British people with very good teeth.

[Black Wolf]

My aunt is a good example of a person of 100% Irish/British Isles descent who is dark complexioned by Northern European standards. She has black hair, deep brown eyes and tans very easily. Some people even mistake her for being Native Canadian here lol.

[Smeagol]

No. English, Scottish, and most Irish are comparable to Dutch, and North Germans in pigmentation.

[Merida]

They are darker than other places in Northern Europe like Scandinavia. Personally, I haven't seen many people portraying them as dark necessarily. What I have noticed, though, is how some people use the term 'dark British' (as opposed to the 'average Brit') in a rather exaggerated way.

[FeederOfRavens]

No. English, Scottish, and most Irish are comparable to Dutch, and North Germans in pigmentation.

Dutch and North Germans are blonder. I think that's the difference.

[Tooting Carmen]

Dutch and North Germans are blonder. I think that's the difference.

Yes, but NOT to the extreme extent that some people assume.

[Smeagol]

Dutch and North Germans are blonder. I think that's the difference.

By a bit, but not so much as some people like to exaggerate.

[FeederOfRavens]

Yes, but NOT to the extreme extent that some people assume.


By a bit, but not so much as some people like to exaggerate.


Yes, I guess that Germanic influence did it's work.

[Tooting Carmen]

From the 'swarthiest' part of Britain: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?99363-Classify-these-various-blond-Welshmen

[Bloody]

No. English, Scottish, and most Irish are comparable to Dutch, and North Germans in pigmentation.

Brits are hardly a blonde group. Drop the coon fantasy for once.

Scandinavians , dutch and northern germans are far blonder and taller than.brits. even central-eastern european groups such as poles, czech, slovakians, ukranians and russians are blonder than brits. British adults are rarely naturally blond, same goes for the Irish.

Brits have a lot of pale skin and light eyes, but they lack the hair blondism and nordid-cromagnid features (and heights/builds) of other northeners

[Tooting Carmen]

Brits are hardly a blonde group. Drop the coon fantasy for once.

Scandinavians , dutch and northern germans are far blonder and taller than.brits. even central-eastern european groups such as poles, czech, slovakians, ukranians and russians are blonder than brits. British adults are rarely naturally blond, same goes for the Irish.

Brits have a lot of pale skin and light eyes, but they lack the hair blondism and nordid-cromagnid features (and heights/builds) of other northeners

Poles are not blonder than Brits, and I know this given that there are lots of Polish immigrants here.

[King Claus]

Those beasts that you posted as examples don't look native/Germanic

[Sisak]

They all look the same to me.

[Tooting Carmen]

They all look the same to me.

Who does?

[Sisak]

Who does?

The British have the same pigment as the Scandinavians and the British are particularly similar to the Dutch and the northern French people.

[Tooting Carmen]

The British have the same pigment as the Scandinavians and the British are particularly similar to the Dutch and the northern French people.

Dutch and Northern French, yes. Not Scandinavians though.

[Sisak]

Dutch and Northern French, yes. Not Scandinavians though.

If I saw these people on the street I would not know from which countries they came from, I'd probably first thought they are from the UK, Germany, Sweden ...
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?99363-Classify-these-various-blond-Welshmen

[Tooting Carmen]

If I saw these people on the street I would not know from which countries they came from, I'd probably first thought they are from the UK, Germany, Sweden ...
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?99363-Classify-these-various-blond-Welshmen

But while those are commonplace in Wales and the rest of the UK, they are not the average.

[King Claus]

Dutch and Northern French, yes. Not Scandinavians though.
Fool. There are huge differences between northern france and belgium , let alone with the netherlands, or even better, the northern part of it.

[Sisak]

But while those are commonplace in Wales and the rest of the UK, they are not the average.

in every country there are atypical phenotypes, but most northern Europeans look identical, have a large share of borreby, nordid and faelid impact, but they are not rare phenotypes such as Sean Connery.

[Alessio]

Nope England is more darker overall than the Netherlands and Scandinavia.

[Tooting Carmen]

Nope England is more darker overall than the Netherlands or Scandinavia.

Yes, but the question is by how much? My argument is that, while the above is true, at the same time some people exaggerate the disparity.

[Alessio]

Yes, but the question is by how much? My argument is that, while the above is true, at the same time some people exaggerate the disparity.

20 % at least my guess would be and 'darker' types like those found within the Welsh people aren't easy to find in The Netherlands.

[Tooting Carmen]

20 % at least my guess would be and 'darker' types like those found within the Welsh people aren't easy to find in The Netherlands.

So how common are those two Dutch footballers I posted in the OP? Rest assured there are other fully native examples too, but those were the first two that came into my head.

[Alessio]

So how common are those two Dutch footballers I posted in the OP? Rest assured there are other fully native examples too, but those were the first two that came into my head.

The one on the left isn't all that uncommon but I won't call him 'exotic' for Northern Euro standards. The one on the right is quite rare for Dutch standards.

[Damião de Góis]

North Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians, Balts and Finns seem lighter to me.

[Tooting Carmen]

North Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians, Balts and Finns seem lighter to me.

Like I said I don't dispute that, but the question is if the difference is so enormous viz-a-viz the British?

[Damião de Góis]

Like I said I don't dispute that, but the question is if the difference is so enormous viz-a-viz the British?

No, it's not enormous in my opinion.

[Porpolita]

In hair colour, they definitely seem a bit darker.

But for eye colour and skin colour, they are the same as other Northern Europeans. I believe many Irish, Scottish and English have some of the lightest skin tones in the world. And the darkness of the Welsh is very exaggerated on these forums.

[Hevo]

Those beasts that you posted as examples don't look native/Germanic

Mark van Bommel and Ruud van Nistelrooij are both from the swarthies regions of The Netherlands so that makes sense.

[King Claus]

Mark van Bommel and Ruud van Nistelrooij are both from the swarthies regions of The Netherlands so that makes sense.
but even then they're quite swarthy to me.

[Hevo]

but even then they're quite swarthy to me.

True, Mark van bommel looks Moroccan.xD

[Damião de Góis]

At Kyle's request, here are the England and West Germany teams from world cup 86, for comparison:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XkVw1nzRy-8/UAPgKRPD23I/AAAAAAAAZz4/FuDHpGNmkkc/s1600/Panini+RFA+Coupe+du+monde+1986+-+Mexico+86.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fK7u6O-EwqU/Tkt9xB5_qdI/AAAAAAAASeA/jtpXOSLtwfo/s1600/Planche+Panini+Angleterre+1986+Album+Coupe+du+mond e+Mexique.png

[King Claus]

True, Mark van bommel looks Moroccan.xD
Kheb geen idee waar die oorspronkelijk weg komt, maar hij lijkt iig niet volledig nederlands. Heb je foto's van hem gezien van uit zijn jeugd? Google maar eens;)

[King Claus]

That seems to be the common belief in the anthro world, and appears to be especially advocated by certain members here like 'Melonhead' and 'Bloody'. Even so, many overlook the fact there are Dutch people like these:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02244/Mark-vanBommel_2244253a.jpghttp://images.tvrage.com/people/84/250795.jpg
And Germans like these:
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/KristaKC10/mats-hummels-versteht-die_zps6ed1308d.jpghttp://www.bayer04.de/bilder//10_11/07_t580/Ulf-Kirsten_0707a.jpghttp://www.wz-newsline.de/polopoly_fs/1.1159347.1353489442!/httpImage/onlineImage.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_300/onlineImage.jpghttp://www.5-freunde-im-abseits.de/wp-content/plugins/2256.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/11/21/books/hari2.184.jpg
And how about these decidedly non-Nordic Scandinavians?
http://multimedia.pol.dk/archive/00679/Forbrydelsen_3_679607a.jpghttp://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2009/6/11/1244713300644/Ingmar-Bergman-005.jpghttp://www.images99.com/i99/02/45166/45166.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/1z6icm.jpg you forgot to add your self, buddy

[Hevo]

Kheb geen idee waar die oorspronkelijk weg komt, maar hij lijkt iig niet volledig nederlands. Heb je foto's van hem gezien van uit zijn jeugd? Google maar eens;)

LOL, inderdaad.xD

http://www.startpagina.nl/athene/dochters/fortuna-sittard/images/mark%20van%20bommel%20bij%20fortuna.png

[King Claus]

LOL, inderdaad.xD

http://www.startpagina.nl/athene/dochters/fortuna-sittard/images/mark%20van%20bommel%20bij%20fortuna.pngal huiverend gingen mijn nekharen recht overeind staan , en mijn armen zitten nog steeds onder het kippenvel xD

[Leto]

Mark van Bommel still looks more or less European
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mark+van+Bommel+Nivea+Rihanna+Celebrating+WosD-DBK_f4l.jpg
http://www.tablesleague.com/players/33309_mark_van_bommel_1.jpg
His wife
http://sin.stb.s-msn.com/i/FD/B088511114279962F39014499576.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

Mark van Bommel still looks more or less European
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mark+van+Bommel+Nivea+Rihanna+Celebrating+WosD-DBK_f4l.jpg
http://www.tablesleague.com/players/33309_mark_van_bommel_1.jpg
His wife
http://sin.stb.s-msn.com/i/FD/B088511114279962F39014499576.jpg

Yes, just as is (usually) the case with the dark Brits.

[Leto]

Yes, just as is (usually) the case with the dark Brits.
It's not a problem that Britain, the Netherlands and Germany have natives like Russell Brand, Mark van Bommel and Mats Hummels. I think people like them had existed in those countries long before the mass immigration from outside Europe started.

[Grace O'Malley]

It's not a problem that Britain, the Netherlands and Germany have natives like Russell Brand, Mark van Bommel and Mats Hummels. I think people like them had existed in those countries long before the mass immigration from outside Europe started.

Yes of course. If anyone is interested in those ancient bones being found they have some unusual results. The one in Spain La Brana had blue eyes and dark skin and plotted closest to Finns although still a bit distant. One in Germany had brown eyes, brown hair and lighter skin but closer to middle eastern people. These combinations have always been in Europe.

[Not a Cop]

Yes, but the question is by how much? My argument is that, while the above is true, at the same time some people exaggerate the disparity.

According to material i read Brits, excluding Welsh and bordering region more or less similar to south Dutch and Flemish people.

[Grace O'Malley]

According to material i read Brits, excluding Welsh and bordering region more or less similar to south Dutch and Flemish people.

Well genetically I always come up with North Dutch and I'm Irish not Anglo-Saxon. There is obviously some closeness in genetics whether it suits people or not. On any Gedmatch calculator I'll get North Dutch first or second. I look at this as a similarity in genes not that I actually have Dutch ancestry although I'm not 100% sure of that because I do get some French/German on 23andMe and I don't know what the reason for that is yet.

[Leto]

Yes of course. If anyone is interested in those ancient bones being found they have some unusual results. The one in Spain La Brana had blue eyes and dark skin and plotted closest to Finns although still a bit distant. One in Germany had brown eyes, brown hair and lighter skin but closer to middle eastern people. These combinations have always been in Europe.
Brown eyes and brown hair are common in Germany. Only the Nazis portrayed Germans as Nordics or Scandinavians.

[Bloody]

Brown eyes and brown hair are common in Germany. Only the Nazis portrayed Germans as Nordics or Scandinavians.
Who cares what the nazis portrayed now ? Its a fact germans looks more stereotypically nordic+cm meanwhile the british Islanders are very atlantid on average.
65% of germans have some form of light hair (blonde, lightbrown or red)
And 65-70% have light eyes.

Uk is more dark haired and atlantid looking.

[Bloody]

Well genetically I always come up with North Dutch and I'm Irish not Anglo-Saxon. There is obviously some closeness in genetics whether it suits people or not. On any Gedmatch calculator I'll get North Dutch first or second. I look at this as a similarity in genes not that I actually have Dutch ancestry although I'm not 100% sure of that because I do get some French/German on 23andMe and I don't know what the reason for that is yet.
Genetical matches not always translate into physical similarity. The Irish look very atlantid compared to the dutch. There could be some old substrata overlaping but the large % of dna could be different.

[Grace O'Malley]

Genetical matches not always translate into physical similarity. The Irish look very atlantid compared to the dutch. There could be some old substrata overlaping but the large % of dna could be different.

What is Atlantid but an old racial term and not really very scientific. Anyway Atlantids are mostly brown eyed and dark haired that is not the standard in the British Isles. The dna doesn't suit you so you bring in some mumbo jumbo which doesn't mean anything. I don't really want to go back and forth on this thread talking to someone who has an obsession on this subject and will never change their mantra. I also get annoyed that people aren't honest enough to portray themselves as they are. You don't even post your true nationality.

[Bahaman]

No. British are lighter than most northern europeans.

Average briton looks like Paul Bettany

[Smeagol]

Brits are hardly a blonde group. Drop the coon fantasy for once.

Scandinavians , dutch and northern germans are far blonder and taller than.brits. even central-eastern european groups such as poles, czech, slovakians, ukranians and russians are blonder than brits. British adults are rarely naturally blond, same goes for the Irish.

Brits have a lot of pale skin and light eyes, but they lack the hair blondism and nordid-cromagnid features (and heights/builds) of other northeners

Says the guy who believes Brits look like Iberians.

[Smeagol]

What is Atlantid but an old racial term and not really very scientific. Anyway Atlantids are mostly brown eyed and dark haired that is not the standard in the British Isles. The dna doesn't suit you so you bring in some mumbo jumbo which doesn't mean anything. I don't really want to go back and forth on this thread talking to someone who has an obsession on this subject and will never change their mantra. I also get annoyed that people aren't honest enough to portray themselves as they are. You don't even post your true nationality.

He's half Spanish, half Welsh, he said it in another thread about a year ago.

[Smeagol]

Who cares what the nazis portrayed now ? Its a fact germans looks more stereotypically nordic+cm meanwhile the british Islanders are very atlantid on average.
65% of germans have some form of light hair (blonde, lightbrown or red)
And 65-70% have light eyes.

Uk is more dark haired and atlantid looking.

"Atlantid" is a made up term that means nothing.

[JohnSmith]

I would not say they are much darker.

[JohnSmith]

I mean some continental non southern Europeans can be Berid looking like Taylor Lautner.
Many Europeans can look dark anywhere in Europe.

Ethnicity: Austrian, English, German, Swiss-German, French
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33500000/New-Reutner-outtakes-from-Eclipse-promotional-tour-taylor-lautner-33599805-3500-2413.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

He's half Spanish, half Welsh, he said it in another thread about a year ago.

Bloody says more than his prayers. There is no way he is half Welsh. He has an obsession with British Isles and any country like the US, Australia where there are a lot of descendants of these people. He puts Netherlands and Germany on a pedestal and likes to distance any similarity to these nations that places like the British Isles might have. I really don't think in terms of being "Germanic" like a lot of people do. The genetics has an older history and a lot of these populations have undoubtedly some shared ancestry in the past even before any Vikings or Anglo-Saxons came on the scene. Anyone looking closely at genetics know this. Bloody doesn't even like to acknowledge that there was a large amount of Germans that went to the US and contributed to the genetics of the people. I detest all these troll threads because most people don't know what they are talking about and just say whatever based on nothing more than some bias. There are countless people here that say things without any backup evidence whatsoever. There should be more quality of threads instead of quantity because most of the information is non-factual.

[Bahaman]

Bloody is south american mestizo. He is not Briton.

[JohnSmith]

Britons can look a range of ways but Germans can too. I have seen a fair share of dark Germans.

[Bahaman]

Britons can look a range of ways but Germans can too. I have seen a fair share of dark Germans.
It's south germans that are dark. North Gremans look very germanic.

[JohnSmith]

It's south germans that are dark. North Gremans look very germanic.

Well even the Southern Germans still look Germanic to me just darker. They still have that square jaw overall.

[Bahaman]

Well even the Southern Germans still look Germanic to me just darker. They still have that square jaw overall.
No. Southern german are predominantly Alpinid. It's hardly germanic look.

[JohnSmith]

No. Southern german are predominantly Alpinid. It's hardly germanic look.

I disagree with that. Alpines can look Germanic besides Southern Germans have Borreby influence also.

[Bahaman]

I disagree with that. Alpines can look Germanic besides Southern Germans have Borreby influence also.
No.

Northern Germans = Faelid and Borreby
Southern Germans = Alpinid and Dinarid.

[JohnSmith]

No.

Northern Germans = Faelid and Borreby
Southern Germans = Alpinid and Dinarid.

I disagree you can find Borrebys all the way down into in Austria and Italy also.

[Bahaman]

I disagree you can find Borrebys all the way down into in Austria and Italy also.

You can also find Nordids in Sicily doesn't mean it's predominate phenotype of that region.

[JohnSmith]

You can also find Nordids in Sicily doesn't mean it's predominate phenotype of that region.

Borrebys are more common I think than you realize they are common in the Balkans also.

[Hevo]

It's not a problem that Britain, the Netherlands and Germany have natives like Russell Brand, Mark van Bommel and Mats Hummels. I think people like them had existed in those countries long before the mass immigration from outside Europe started.

Mark van Bommel is from Limburg and that region has received alot migrations from Belgium/Western Germany etc so it could explain that people in Limburg have more exotic appearances on average compared to other regions. Limburg has been only part of The Netherlands since 1815.

[Tooting Carmen]

Male MPs representing London, Paris and Berlin: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?142324-Male-MPs-representing-London-Paris-and-Berlin-compare-and-contrast
Female MPs representing London, Paris and Berlin: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?105304-Female-MPs-from-London-Paris-and-Berlin-compare-and-contrast

[Sisak]

When it comes to these two models, it is a typical phenotype of Wales and Sweden. Is there any region in northwestern Europe, where this phenotype,skin pigment and hair color is typical?
http://i60.tinypic.com/mj61eg.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/14cxnrt.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2whov7p.jpg

[FeederOfRavens]

When it comes to these two models, it is a typical phenotype of Wales and Sweden. Is there any region in northwestern Europe, where this phenotype,skin pigment and hair color is typical?
http://i60.tinypic.com/mj61eg.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/14cxnrt.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2whov7p.jpg

Nay

[JohnSmith]

When it comes to these two models, it is a typical phenotype of Wales and Sweden. Is there any region in northwestern Europe, where this phenotype,skin pigment and hair color is typical?
http://i60.tinypic.com/mj61eg.jpg



What is this thing a man or woman? Very unattractive.

[LightHouse89]

My aunt is a good example of a person of 100% Irish/British Isles descent who is dark complexioned by Northern European standards. She has black hair, deep brown eyes and tans very easily. Some people even mistake her for being Native Canadian here lol.

I have very pale skin [or in the Irish/british sense] my dad is only a bit darker than me because of his french background as my grandmother's father came from southern france and traditionally they have darker hair color.

I have darker eyes though, brown but my mother looks very northern euro as do some of my uncles on my dad's side.

I have been sometimes confused as a Brit or Frog.

I am not sure which country I fit in the best but my B/I background is about 5/8s of my ancestry.

[Sakis]

http://i60.tinypic.com/mj61eg.jpg

http://files.sharenator.com/87720.jpg

[FeederOfRavens]

http://i60.tinypic.com/mj61eg.jpg

She looks like me except she's swarthier.

[Sakis]

She looks like me except she's swarthier.

Hitler would masturbate to you.

[JohnSmith]

I have very pale skin [or in the Irish/british sense] my dad is only a bit darker than me because of his french background as my grandmother's father came from southern france and traditionally they have darker hair color.

I have darker eyes though, brown but my mother looks very northern euro as do some of my uncles on my dad's side.

I have been sometimes confused as a Brit or Frog.

I am not sure which country I fit in the best but my B/I background is about 5/8s of my ancestry.

I am British and Italian and sometimes people think I am French or German, go figure.

[JohnSmith]

She looks like me except she's swarthier.

So it is a female.

[Anthropologique]

I am British and Italian and sometimes people think I am French or German, go figure.

You may resemble some French.

[Anthropologique]

She looks like me except she's swarthier.

Looks like an Albino, almost.

[JohnSmith]

You may resemble some French.

Perhaps, not sure how common Dinarized Borrebys are in France, maybe near Switzerland you could find them.

[FeederOfRavens]

Looks like an Albino, almost.

Yep, that is true Platinum or Light Blonde hair.

[Sandman]

Poles are not blonder than Brits, and I know this given that there are lots of Polish immigrants here.

Really?

[Neon Knight]

Brown hair is by far the most comon in Ireland and Britain. About 50% of children are blond then go darker as they get older.

[LightHouse89]

Brown hair is by far the most comon in Ireland and Britain. About 50% of children are blond then go darker as they get older.

This happened with me.

[Sandman]

Poles are not blonder than Brits, and I know this given that there are lots of Polish immigrants here.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51554&d=1413718838
Brits are "darker" than the Poles. By the way most "light" countries are those around the Baltic Sea: Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Baltic States,
northwestern Russia, northern Poland and northern Germany.

[JohnSmith]

Why does it matter who has darker hair or eyes?? I really could careless.

[LightHouse89]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51554&d=1413718838
Brits are "darker" than the Poles. By the way most "light" countries are those around the Baltic Sea: Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Baltic States,
northwestern Russia, northern Poland and northern Germany.

Yeah right. Brits and Irish people are wicked light but I do not disagree with the mentioned countries that are light. However I have a friend that is Polish, a very hot girl and she can tan by the way hahah. My mother though who is Irish, North Western German and some Finnish-Swede [from that area LOL] and she is very very light and cannot tan at all. My sisters are the same way, I cannot really tan and have a very light complected look.

[JohnSmith]

Pigmentation is only one factor. Many Poles are light complexioned that is true, however, I can tell a Pole from a Brit based on facial features quite easily.

[Bahaman]

Pigmentation is only one factor. Many Poles are light complexioned that is true, however, I can tell a Pole from a Brit based on facial features quite easily.

Poles are round-headed with baltid/peasant features.

Brits are long-headed with delicate aristocratic features.

[Mans not hot]

Poles are round-headed with baltid/peasant features.

Brits are long-headed with delicate aristocratic features.
Lmao. Ignorant people never cease to amazed me.

[Tooting Carmen]

Lmao. Ignorant people never cease to amazed me.

He is right in that the majority of the time Brits and Poles can be distinguished by their facial traits, but I wouldn't have put it so crudely as he did.

[Mans not hot]

He is right in that the majority of the time Brits and Poles can be distinguished by their facial traits, but I wouldn't have put it so crudely as he did.
Not really, I live among Brits and Polish people and what he said is far from the reality. There's good amount of diversity among both ethnicity - Not all Poles are hardcore Baltids and not all Brits are Nordoids.

[Tooting Carmen]

Not really, I live among Brits and Polish people and what he said is far from the reality. There's good amount of diversity among both ethnicity - Not all Poles are hardcore Baltids and not all Brits are Nordoids.

True, but I still think that the percentage of Brits and Poles who can pass as each others' ethnicity is well below 50%.

[Beit El]

The reason why Brits are darker than for example the Dutch is because their history is different. The English were native Celts with major Germanic admixture, whereas the Dutch are native Germanics with some minor Celtic admixture which limits itself to the south. Van Bommel and Van Nistelrooy are southerners by the way, and even there they are at the extreme end of dark. I have serious doubts whether they don't have recent foreign admixture.

[JohnSmith]

Poles usually do not have a prominent Atlantid looking nose you see along the Atlantic coast of Europe.

[Bahaman]

Poles usually do not have a prominent Atlantid looking nose you see along the Atlantic coast of Europe.
It's keltic nose. Not atlantid.

[JohnSmith]

It's keltic nose. Not atlantid.

Not all have a Keltic Nose and the Keltic Nose is similar to central European Dinarics. Many are Atlantid.

[Jackson]

The reason why Brits are darker than for example the Dutch is because their history is different. The English were native Celts with major Germanic admixture, whereas the Dutch are native Germanics with some minor Celtic admixture which limits itself to the south. Van Bommel and Van Nistelrooy are southerners by the way, and even there they are at the extreme end of dark. I have serious doubts whether they don't have recent foreign admixture.

Well it might be more accurate to say that we are Germanics with major Celtic admixture, more than the Dutch of course. After all England was formed in a Germanic society and not a Celtic society, culturally and linguistically speaking.

[LightHouse89]

The reason why Brits are darker than for example the Dutch is because their history is different. The English were native Celts with major Germanic admixture, whereas the Dutch are native Germanics with some minor Celtic admixture which limits itself to the south. Van Bommel and Van Nistelrooy are southerners by the way, and even there they are at the extreme end of dark. I have serious doubts whether they don't have recent foreign admixture.

Yet what is funny to me if I showed how the majority of Irish people looked you would change that statement fast LOL....majority Insular Celts are as white as artic snow. My mother's family is living testament of that especially those living in Ireland as oppose to the German relatives who can tan as much as a Frenchman hahah LOL.

[LightHouse89]

Well it might be more accurate to say that we are Germanics with major Celtic admixture, more than the Dutch of course. After all England was formed in a Germanic society and not a Celtic society, culturally and linguistically speaking.

Southern Englsh people have more tan to them where as Northern are the opposite. What is odd is that if you came to new england you would say every person who was light was obviously a descendant of WASPs :rolleyes: but the fact is it is the Irish here who are as bright as arctic snow.

[LightHouse89]

Poles are round-headed with baltid/peasant features.

Brits are long-headed with delicate aristocratic features.

The noble Brit feature is associated with Keltic Nordid types. I am not sure about Poles but many are very light too as much as Brits or Irish people [Irish being some of the lightest people I have ever seen].

[Hevo]

Van Bommel and Van Nistelrooy are southerners by the way, and even there they are at the extreme end of dark. I have serious doubts whether they don't have recent foreign admixture.

Keep in mind that Limburg has been only part of The Netherlands since 1815 and it has received some migrations from Belgium/Western Germany so that could explain why there are some exotic people like Van Bommel.

[Isleño]

I think various Northern European countries have their darker types. It's just less common as the south, but they still exist. If we look at Northern Europe, many Northern European countries are partially Neolithic Mediterranean, so there are Mediterranean genes floating around Northern Europe which could contribute to these phenotypes and could probably be responsible for them.

[Tooting Carmen]

I think various Northern European countries have their darker types. It's just less common as the south, but they still exist. If we look at Northern Europe, many Northern European countries are partially Neolithic Mediterranean, so there are Mediterranean genes floating around Northern Europe which could contribute to these phenotypes and could probably be responsible for them.

But then how come the British Isles appear to have more of them than do other Northern European countries, albeit not to the extreme extent that some people here claim?

[Jackson]

But then how come the British Isles appear to have more of them than do other Northern European countries, albeit not to the extreme extent that some people here claim?

Because we have slightly more of these Mediterranean genes than some other northern European places e.g Scandinavia and the Baltic, although we actually have less than most of Germany and some parts of the Netherlands.

[Neon Knight]

But then how come the British Isles appear to have more of them [darker types] than do other Northern European countries, albeit not to the extreme extent that some people here claim?If you look at the map, you'll see it was easier for migrating Scandinavians to get into Germany than Britain because we are an island. Also, British have more red hair than other northern Europeans and red hair is an equivalent of blond because it is genetically linked to light skin.

Some North-West English working class kids in the 1980s:

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu295/Alchemyst/NewtownKids_zps42574dcf.jpg

Note that not one of them has black or even dark brown hair. Some of them will have Irish ancestry.

[LightHouse89]

If you look at the map, you'll see it was easier for migrating Scandinavians to get into Germany than Britain because we are an island. Also, British have more red hair than other northern Europeans and red hair is an equivalent of blond because it is genetically linked to light skin.

Some North-West English working class kids in the 1980s:

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu295/Alchemyst/NewtownKids_zps42574dcf.jpg

Note that not one of them has black or even dark brown hair. Some of them will have Irish ancestry.

My hair darkened over time but this is due to the influence from the Finnish and French side.....the Finnish ancestor of mine had black hair and almost looked slavic to me from pictures I have seen. She was very pale though and had blue eyes. My grandmother who was half french had brown hair too but when was born my hair was very blonde and darkened over time.

[Isleño]

But then how come the British Isles appear to have more of them than do other Northern European countries, albeit not to the extreme extent that some people here claim?

Well I think because of the large migration from the Iberian peninsula after the last glacial maximum also and I think the Med genes may have been better preserved in the British Isles possibly. But it's all just educated guesses. It seems pretty logical if you think about what type of ancestry entered the British Isles and when it did and how the history played out. Since later migrations of Scandinavians and Germanics to the isles pushed the original Britons (descendants of the Iberian migration) to the western fringes of the British Isles, this also could be a factor.

I'm aware there was mixing of these groups, but the admixture percentage and the large pockets of Briton ancestry could also be a factor. They could have mixed less in some parts of Britain and more in others, there could be different frequencies of admixture in them considerably different than other Northern countries concerning Med ancestry, thus retaining more persons with this phenotype. I think there may be multiple factors at work here. But then again, I have about 5-6 scenarios that I think are candidates for a possible explanation.

[Isleño]

Because we have slightly more of these Mediterranean genes than some other northern European places e.g Scandinavia and the Baltic, although we actually have less than most of Germany and some parts of the Netherlands.
There are many southern Germans that have dark hair and swarthy complexions. I won't say all of them, but many of them do.

[Jackson]

There are many southern Germans that have dark hair and swarthy complexions. I won't say all of them, but many of them do.

Yeah I've met a couple of southern Germans and they were both dark by British standards, although i know of a couple on this forum f.e that are light by British standards, despite having more southern European admixture genetically speaking.

[Isleño]

Yeah I've met a couple of southern Germans and they were both dark by British standards, although i know of a couple on this forum f.e that are light by British standards, despite having more southern European admixture genetically speaking.

Well think of genetics like an unpredictable, wild phenomenon that combines and recombines along multigenerational patterns. So that means there could be a certain "recipe" of genetic markers and the end result could translate into a mixed phenotype or phenotype predominantly of a certain component in the "recipe". There are smaller chances for smaller genetic components, but it does not make it impossible for it to resurface in an individual phenotype. So one could be 3/4 Northern European and 1/4 Southern European ancestry and totally come out with predominant Southern European features, while their siblings could come out predominantly Northern Euro in one phenotype and one could come out with features from both in a more balanced mix. Genetics are just so unpredictable.

There's no guarantee that one will be lighter or darker in skin tone or have lighter or darker hair or eye coloring if its a population or individual that has ancestry that carries such traits.

[Jackson]

Well think of genetics like an unpredictable, wild phenomenon that combines and recombines along multigenerational patterns. So that means there could be a certain "recipe" of genetic markers and the end result could translate into a mixed phenotype or phenotype predominantly of a certain component in the "recipe". There are smaller chances for smaller genetic components, but it does not make it impossible for it to resurface in an individual phenotype. So one could be 3/4 Northern European and 1/4 Southern European ancestry and totally come out with predominant Southern European features, while their siblings could come out predominantly Northern Euro in one phenotype and one could come out with features from both in a more balanced mix. Genetics are just so unpredictable.

There's no guarantee that one will be lighter or darker in skin tone or have lighter or darker hair or eye coloring if its a population or individual that has ancestry that carries such traits.

Yeah i sort of visualize it in a way as though the range & overall parameters are set by your ancestry, but your individual admixture (and phenotype too i guess) are picked from within that.

[Isleño]

Yeah i sort of visualize it in a way as though the range & overall parameters are set by your ancestry, but your individual admixture (and phenotype too i guess) are picked from within that.

Also think of it like this....think of genetic components as marbles. If there are so many red marbles and so many green marbles and so many blue marbles from each parent, when the child is born, it's like combining all the parent marble into one bowl and scooping from that bowl and you have the child's marbles (genetics). Meaning genetic markers could be in any random combinations such as one sibling could wound up with 10 blues, 6 reds and 7 greens and his sister could of wound up with 5 blues, 8 reds and 10 greens. Factors such as these can have an influence on phenotype also. That's how genetics work.

[Neon Knight]

Also think of it like this....think of genetic components as marbles. If there are so many red marbles and so many green marbles and so many blue marbles from each parent, when the child is born, it's like combining all the parent marble into one bowl and scooping from that bowl and you have the child's marbles (genetics). Meaning genetic markers could be in any random combinations such as one sibling could wound up with 10 blues, 6 reds and 7 greens and his sister could of wound up with 5 blues, 8 reds and 10 greens. Factors such as these can have an influence on phenotype also. That's how genetics work.True, and something which people who swear by 'classification' need to understand. In any European population there will be a few natives who, just by chance, look like Arabs (and vice versa).

But in a pop. as large as Britain's all this would average out so it doesn't answer the question about the lesser blondness. I think the answer is pretty simple though: originally, the prehistoric north Germans and Netherlanders would have had the same hair colour range as the ancient Britons. The Germans who went into Scandinavia became blonder due to lower sunlight epigenetics then later on (pre-Roman times) they fed back into Northern Germany but their migration to Britain was limited because of the geography. In Britain (and especially Scotland) the red hair gene was equally favoured as an equivalent to the blond hair gene so that was a random factor which has made a difference. What I find puzzling is why the native Canadian Indians and Inuit are not a lot lighter. Maybe it is all more random than it seems.

[hipaware]

If it's about hair color, then yes. There's a significant lower number of blonds in the British Isles compared to most Northern European countries.

Notice the lack of blonds in the photos of Native Brits from London. I took these photos on my trip.

https://z-1-scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10393928_10154431598235258_3622327040755114101_n.j pg?oh=e8400d6a04df2fc7cab95309e03052ed&oe=54AF433C
https://z-1-scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10592893_10154431597955258_8244831805182872016_n.j pg?oh=844c539989cc6b2985c87440f8d4a444&oe=54B5EBD2
https://z-1-scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10403651_10154431600160258_5926445526623123222_n.j pg?oh=e3e268565a7444a59f200ed013f45aca&oe=54EC2052

[Tooting Carmen]

If it's about hair color, then yes. There's a significant lower number of blonds in the British Isles compared to most Northern European countries.

Notice the lack of blonds in the photos of Native Brits from London. I took these photos on my trip.

https://z-1-scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10393928_10154431598235258_3622327040755114101_n.j pg?oh=e8400d6a04df2fc7cab95309e03052ed&oe=54AF433C
https://z-1-scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10592893_10154431597955258_8244831805182872016_n.j pg?oh=844c539989cc6b2985c87440f8d4a444&oe=54B5EBD2
https://z-1-scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10403651_10154431600160258_5926445526623123222_n.j pg?oh=e3e268565a7444a59f200ed013f45aca&oe=54EC2052

Well alright, but does that mean that, in terms of eye colour and skin tone, there is little or no difference between the British and other Northern Europeans?

[Tooting Carmen]

Here is the Leicester Tigers rugby team, the team of the city where I grew up. Admittedly the East Midlands is one of the blonder parts of the UK, but even so. Could these not be Dutch or German? http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?103099-Leicester-Tigers-rugby-team-from-Leicester-East-Midlands-England

[Jackson]

If it's about hair color, then yes. There's a significant lower number of blonds in the British Isles compared to most Northern European countries.

Notice the lack of blonds in the photos of Native Brits from London. I took these photos on my trip.

https://z-1-scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10393928_10154431598235258_3622327040755114101_n.j pg?oh=e8400d6a04df2fc7cab95309e03052ed&oe=54AF433C
https://z-1-scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10592893_10154431597955258_8244831805182872016_n.j pg?oh=844c539989cc6b2985c87440f8d4a444&oe=54B5EBD2
https://z-1-scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10403651_10154431600160258_5926445526623123222_n.j pg?oh=e3e268565a7444a59f200ed013f45aca&oe=54EC2052

But that is in London, only 45% of the population is white British, and probably a significant number of those are partially Irish and some probably have a bit of foreign ancestry in recent times. I wouldn't reckon the population of London that is fully English (for a couple of centuries anyway) can be much above 25%.

[LightHouse89]

But that is in London, only 45% of the population is white British, and probably a significant number of those are partially Irish and some probably have a bit of foreign ancestry in recent times. I wouldn't reckon the population of London that is fully English (for a couple of centuries anyway) can be much above 25%.

some of the people in those pics do not look irish either.

[Jackson]

some of the people in those pics do not look irish either.

The point i'm making is that nowadays London is unlike most of the rest of the country outside some other big cities, so it is more worthwhile making comparisons of people with a rural background. One of POBI's early papers also showed that city-dwellers are significantly more Celtic in ancestry than the people who live in the countryside perhaps just a few miles away. So really if you are looking at English people from London, it's not surprising that they would be significantly darker given that they on average have more Celtic ancestry and are more likely to have foreign ancestry than people from rural areas, or who's family are from rural areas.

[LightHouse89]

The point i'm making is that nowadays London is unlike most of the rest of the country outside some other big cities, so it is more worthwhile making comparisons of people with a rural background. One of POBI's early papers also showed that city-dwellers are significantly more Celtic in ancestry than the people who live in the countryside perhaps just a few miles away. So really if you are looking at English people from London, it's not surprising that they would be significantly darker given that they on average have more Celtic ancestry and are more likely to have foreign ancestry than people from rural areas, or who's family are from rural areas.

Yes but most people I meet with Celtic ancestry are not dark at all. I would say London may have white people from all over europe so this is why they may appear 'dark' when infact they are really not English people or British/Irish at all.

[Balmung]

Perhaps some but I feel a lot maybe exaggerating it. Similar with Scandinavians you have people who only post extreme platinum blondes and passing them off as roughly 90% of the population. My father's family is far from being all blonde and many of those who were lighter blondes hair darkened as they got older just like mine did.

As far as Dutch & Germans i've seen just about the same quantity of darker hair as Brits. A lot of posters on anthropology boards sometimes have agendas. Its best to get a viewpoint from a third party. There are blogsites filled with Dutch/German people and alot of the photos of people showed that all of them being descended of thor, far from the case.

[Neon Knight]

From Flensberg, northern Germany near Danish border:
http://www.nord-schrott.de/images/sponsoring/sg-mannschaft-2012-13encn.jpg

From Chesterfield, central England:
http://www.chesterfieldhockeyclub.co.uk/images/2013-1st.JPG

From Laois, central Ireland:
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000IKmBOK.7zV0/fit=1000x750/GAA-National-Football-League-Laois-v-Westmeath-001.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

From Flensberg, northern Germany near Danish border:
http://www.nord-schrott.de/images/sponsoring/sg-mannschaft-2012-13encn.jpg

From Chesterfield, central England:
http://www.chesterfieldhockeyclub.co.uk/images/2013-1st.JPG

From Laois, central Ireland:
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000IKmBOK.7zV0/fit=1000x750/GAA-National-Football-League-Laois-v-Westmeath-001.jpg

The Germans are a bit lighter, but NOT to the exaggerated extent that Bloody, Melonhead and company claim.

[Neon Knight]

The differences are more in the shape of the face than in the hair colour. The English look is not quite the same as the Irish but is more like it than the German.

[Tooting Carmen]

The differences are more in the shape of the face than in the hair colour.

The Germans are a bit rounder and more robust, yes, but the difference is NOT so huge that the two groups cannot overlap.

[Smeagol]

The Germans are a bit lighter, but NOT to the exaggerated extent that Bloody, Melonhead and company claim.

Southern Germans are darker than English though.

[Tooting Carmen]

Southern Germans are darker than English though.

There are some darker individuals in Bavaria, but robust Faelids and Nordids can still be found with some frequency among them too.

[Smeagol]

There are some darker individuals in Bavaria, but robust Faelids and Nordids can still be found with some frequency among them too.

I know, but talking about pigmentation, the English are definitely lighter.

[Grace O'Malley]

I don't think people are objective. There appears to be a lot of exaggeration between "Celtic" and "Germanics". The darkness of Celts is grossly exaggerated and the blondness of Germanics is very much exaggerated. I think both populations are more similar in colouring than people on anthro forums admit. What do people actually think comprises Celtic and Germanic populations? If you look at the genetics of the British Isles there doesn't appear to be much divide with the Celtic and Germanic populations.

[Grace O'Malley]

But that is in London, only 45% of the population is white British, and probably a significant number of those are partially Irish and some probably have a bit of foreign ancestry in recent times. I wouldn't reckon the population of London that is fully English (for a couple of centuries anyway) can be much above 25%.

The Irish population has not contributed to the darkness of the English population. In fact the Irish if anything would have made the English more blue eyed. Southern England has more dark pigmentation than anywhere in Ireland. Don't blame your swarthiness on the Irish. :D

[Jackson]

The Irish population has not contributed to the darkness of the English population. In fact the Irish if anything would have made the English more blue eyed. Southern England has more dark pigmentation than anywhere in Ireland. Don't blame your swarthiness on the Irish. :D

I never said they did, i just said that London is not representative of England, so even if the population of London was entirely of Irish descent and it was lighter complexioned i would say exactly the same thing. I merely included the Irish as one example of people from 'abroad' (although not abroad abroad if you get my drift :)) that make London unrepresentative of the part of England it's in overall. Also the Irish are not super-light, they are lighter than us but not by much, and i think overall their hair is slightly darker (but their skin and eyes lighter) and they are genetically speaking slightly more northern European. I've been there a number of times so i know as well. :P

[Balmung]

I don't think people are objective. There appears to be a lot of exaggeration between "Celtic" and "Germanics". The darkness of Celts is grossly exaggerated and the blondness of Germanics is very much exaggerated. I think both populations are more similar in colouring than people on anthro forums admit. What do people actually think comprises Celtic and Germanic populations? If you look at the genetics of the British Isles there doesn't appear to be much divide with the Celtic and Germanic populations.

True.

I guess it depends on your definition of "lighter" there maybe more blondes in Northern Germany as opposed to Britain as a whole. But the Brits have fairer skin. Which I believe was what "white" was about in the first place skin color rather than hair. Especially the Irish. In the set of pics Neon Knight just posted the Irish looked lighter than both the photos of the German and English group. The picture of the English group looks like they were slightly tanned, though.

[D´Sanglard]

The Irish population has not contributed to the darkness of the English population. In fact the Irish if anything would have made the English more blue eyed. Southern England has more dark pigmentation than anywhere in Ireland. Don't blame your swarthiness on the Irish. :D

Well, I do not understand why the Irish and Welsh are treated as a dark population. The Welsh have more Mediterranean influence, but if you take a group of Welsh, Scottish, Irish and English, it is very difficult to distinguish.

And in relation to Germanic countries, it is not difficult to find dark individuals in Germany and the Netherlands. From what I could see, through my experiences, the Dutch, German and English have more blondes thn irish, but the Irish have a lot of people with light eyes. Only comparable to Scandinavian and Baltic countries. And most Irish and Welsh I saw possessed or light brown hair or were redheads.

[Grace O'Malley]

I never said they did, i just said that London is not representative of England, so even if the population of London was entirely of Irish descent and it was lighter complexioned i would say exactly the same thing. I merely included the Irish as one example of people from 'abroad' (although not abroad abroad if you get my drift :)) that make London unrepresentative of the part of England it's in overall. Also the Irish are not super-light, lighter than us but not by much, and i think overall their hair is slightly darker (but their skin and eyes lighter) and they are genetically speaking slightly more northern European. I've been there a number of times so i know as well. :P

No worries Jackson. I just read the post incorrectly. I just find that there is some exaggeration with the English perceived to be some completely different population in the BIs. There is a tendency to make out the Celts are dark and the Anglo-Saxons are the reason for the blond and blue eyes in the BI. The Celts in the BI are not that much different in colouring than the "Anglo-Saxons".

[Jackson]

No worried Jackson. I just read the post incorrectly. I just find that there is some exaggeration with the English perceived to be some completely different population in the BIs. There is a tendency to make out the Celts are dark and the Anglo-Saxons are the reason for the blond and blue eyes in the BI. The Celts in the BI are not that much different in colouring than the "Anglo-Saxons".

Yeah i agree, there seems to be two lines of thought on internet forums - that we're either more Nordic looking or more Atlantic-Mediterranean looking, when the truth is - like all British Islanders - we are in-between the two.

[Grace O'Malley]

Yeah i agree, there seems to be two lines of thought on internet forums - that we're either more Nordic looking or more Atlantic-Mediterranean looking, when the truth is - like all British Islanders - we are in-between the two.

I don't think of the Irish in any of those terms. They are not Nordic or Antlantic-Mediterranean. It annoys me no end that people want to categorise them as one or the other. They have their own unique characteristics. Most Irish people are similar to my family. I'm light blue eyed with pale, freckled skin and red-brown hair. Very stereotypical Irish because that seems to be the majority colouring. It is not Nordic or Mediterranean but very North Western European. Here are some examples.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStFkzo117afCVNvGjfAhR57Ix1JFKAY ICFmrFWzUUZS1gd8efJxg
http://th02.deviantart.net/fs51/PRE/i/2009/261/9/8/Irish_Girl_by_sadisticmarshmello.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/82/40/44/82404489dbbfe24d5fe4aebf7406fee1.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSV19if1z1D--df-6EKrpjz7kwIsH_y0JQa5pOar0rawhg-qZAh0w
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/bowlingballhead/Carly_Smithson.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4c/93/0b/4c930b9d77da65ad066b54066e1b4da6.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRwE5VtNPsypsmxKYXwVNfUqB0yIXpDr ylGTfkwVgkfKHZrPNd6

[aimar]

What is northern Europe here? Scandinavia, Baltic countries? If so, yes Brits are significantly darker.
Netherlands, Poland, Germany? a bit darker at most.

[Tooting Carmen]

What is northern Europe here? Scandinavia, Baltic countries? If so, yes Brits are significantly darker.
Netherlands, Poland, Germany? a bit darker at most.

All the countries you mentioned.

[aimar]

If not for the lower percentage of blondism Brits would be on par with other northern euros I think, even scandinavians, because Brits are as pale as them.

[Jackson]

I mean more generally northern European or western/southwestern European. Anyway as regards to the origins of light pigmentation. In terms of skin and hair it seems to mostly be down to selection during and after the Neolithic. A recent study looking at the Hungarian plain throughout the Neolithic-Iron Age that it was really during the Late Neolithic, Bronze and Iron Age when light hair and eyes (and i would guess light skin - by modern standards) became more common, as they were quite uncommon beforehand. Also it is interesting that Sardinian-like Neolithic individual is the only person to have light brown/blond hair and light eyes together, although all their compatriots are dark or medium haired and have dark or medium eyes, and there is no real difference between them genetically. So again, phenotype may or may not equal genotype, at least when it comes to pigmentation and at least during these periods.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/8pYopvgWEEa2arQzqfglPBbx-uz7D7BGpeilSTKLiRK3Lr_HGk1FBYTsBEcqs03XRsxDWpGBqDs =w1656-h867

[Grace O'Malley]

Are freckles common in Scandinavian countries? Freckles appear to be very common in British Isles populations especially the "Celts". This is obviously related to the MICR-I gene.

[Hevo]

But that is in London, only 45% of the population is white British, and probably a significant number of those are partially Irish and some probably have a bit of foreign ancestry in recent times. I wouldn't reckon the population of London that is fully English (for a couple of centuries anyway) can be much above 25%.

Imo, autochthonal people that lived for generations in a city are generally darker than people from the country side due migrants from other parts of the country or outside the country like French Hugenots etc. For example the city The Hague received alot refugees/migrants from Belgium/France(French hugenots) while a town nearby called Scheveningen had very few if not none Southern refugees.

[Bloody]

What is northern Europe here? Scandinavia, Baltic countries? If so, yes Brits are significantly darker.
Netherlands, Poland, Germany? a bit darker at most.

Poles are considerably darker than Dutch and people in (north) germany.

Baltic states arent as light/blonde as people make it out to be, just as diverse bunch as the rest of eastern europe.

[rhiannon]

Most British Red Heads are going to have skin as pale as hers:

http://i60.tinypic.com/mj61eg.jpg

What Britain lacks in Blondes is made up for by the fact it has the highest percentage of redheads in the world (with the possible exception of the Udmurts)..

Redheads and Blondes are equally light IMPO....and frankly if you put a pale-skinned red head next to some golden-skinned Scandinavian blonde person, the redhead looks lighter overall to me.

They are the most unusual phenotype overall.

The woman in the pic above is likely an albino.....only her eyes are slightly pigmented because they're blue rather than pink.

[Jackson]

Yeah you don't see many with her sort of hair colour here. Most blondes here are golden, strawberry or ash blondes rather than white-yellow, although it's not uncommon for children.

[FeederOfRavens]

Most British Red Heads are going to have skin as pale as hers:

http://i60.tinypic.com/mj61eg.jpg

What Britain lacks in Blondes is made up for by the fact it has the highest percentage of redheads in the world (with the possible exception of the Udmurts)..

Redheads and Blondes are equally light IMPO....and frankly if you put a pale-skinned red head next to some golden-skinned Scandinavian blonde person, the redhead looks lighter overall to me.

They are the most unusual phenotype overall.

The woman in the pic above is likely an albino.....only her eyes are slightly pigmented because they're blue rather than pink.

She's no albino

[rhiannon]

She's no albinoHow do you know this? I've seen albinos who look exactly like her....

It would be interesting to see her parents, I suppose.

[KawaiiKawaii]

How do you know this? I've seen albinos who look exactly like her....

It would be interesting to see her parents, I suppose.

Albinos tend to have a reddish tone in their eyes, which this person lacks.

[FeederOfRavens]

How do you know this? I've seen albinos who look exactly like her....

It would be interesting to see her parents, I suppose.

Here's another pic of her:
http://s16.postimage.org/jim2xxaud/Linn_Arvidsson_GV_5.jpg



Her name is Linn Arvidsson. She's from Växjö, Smaland, Sweden.

[rhiannon]

Albinos tend to have a reddish tone in their eyes, which this person lacks. Yes I know they do. There are individuals classified as albino who have light blue eyes, though. I have seen them myself.

[rhiannon]

Here's another pic of her:
http://s16.postimage.org/jim2xxaud/Linn_Arvidsson_GV_5.jpg



Her name is Linn Arvidsson. She's from Växjö, Smaland, Sweden.

There she looks less albino...her hair is an extremely light yellow blonde. I can see yellow in it here, but not the other pic.

[Bloody]

Here's another pic of her:
http://s16.postimage.org/jim2xxaud/Linn_Arvidsson_GV_5.jpg



Her name is Linn Arvidsson. She's from Växjö, Smaland, Sweden.

I think thats a normal shade of "Nordic" Blonde hair, Just ash blond/Light blond. Albinos often stick out because of their skin being unusually light and their eyes that look always quite sensitive to the sunlight, their hair lack of this warm yellowish hue (regardless of how light the hair can get).


Here a comparison between Kids with albinism and those with natural light/platinium blonde hair:

Albino kids:

http://www.blackblessedblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/blackblessed-white-2.png

Light/PLatinium blonde haired kids:

http://cdn0.lostateminor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/new-generals-kids-4.jpg

[JohnSmith]

Here's another pic of her:
http://s16.postimage.org/jim2xxaud/Linn_Arvidsson_GV_5.jpg



Her name is Linn Arvidsson. She's from Växjö, Smaland, Sweden.

I thought models are suppose to be attractive.

[FeederOfRavens]

I thought models are suppose to be attractive.

She isn't that bad too me but yeah pretty normal looking

[JohnSmith]

She isn't that bad too me but yeah pretty normal looking

I think she is hideous. Where are the hot tanned Swedes I am used to seeing,lol.

http://www.justingillphoto.com/randomimages/Karin-Beach-3.jpg

[FeederOfRavens]

I think she is hideous. Where are the hot tanned Swedes I am used to seeing,lol.

http://www.justingillphoto.com/randomimages/Karin-Beach-3.jpg

I hate tans on pale girls tbh. It makes them look trashy.

[JohnSmith]

I hate tans on pale girls tbh. It makes them look trashy.

A natural tan is not bad. That pale albino woman is not attractive at all to me. It might have to do with her horse teeth also.

[FeederOfRavens]

A natural tan is not bad. That pale albino woman is not attractive at all to me. It might have to do with her horse teeth also.

Pale girls are meant to be pale so they look best in their natural skin at least to me.

[JohnSmith]

Pale girls are meant to be pale so they look best in their natural skin at least to me.

But if there skin naturally tans in the sun, then there skin is naturally is not that pale. I never thought of Swedes as being that pale anyway.

[FeederOfRavens]

But if there skin naturally tans in the sun, then there skin is naturally is not that pale. I never thought of Swedes as being that pale anyway.

Swedes are as pale as other North Euros except Brits and Irishers who rarely tan. Anyways I just prefer pale look.

[JohnSmith]

Swedes are as pale as other North Euros except Brits and Irishers who rarely tan. Anyways I just prefer pale look.

I think pale skin is attractive on some women also, but a natural tan is also good on others. It depends.

[Neon Knight]

Quite a lot of Brits tan pretty well.

When I was looking for Irish teams some of them were almost all of black-haired men but that was not true for the women. I suspect there is some genetic difference in the bottom third of Ireland.

[Not a Cop]

Her name is Linn Arvidsson. She's from Växjö, Smaland, Sweden.

Is Arvid a Swedish name? I've got Latvian friend with that name, always wondered about it's orgin.

[Smaug]

Not much darker, just darker.

[FeederOfRavens]

Is Arvid a Swedish name? I've got Latvian friend with that name, always wondered about it's orgin.




Arvid, Arved or Arnvid is a male given name, most common in Scandinavia. It is derived from Old Norse Arnviðr and means "forest of eagles".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvid

[Smaug]

Most British Red Heads are going to have skin as pale as hers:

http://i60.tinypic.com/mj61eg.jpg

What Britain lacks in Blondes is made up for by the fact it has the highest percentage of redheads in the world (with the possible exception of the Udmurts)..

Redheads and Blondes are equally light IMPO....and frankly if you put a pale-skinned red head next to some golden-skinned Scandinavian blonde person, the redhead looks lighter overall to me.

They are the most unusual phenotype overall.

The woman in the pic above is likely an albino.....only her eyes are slightly pigmented because they're blue rather than pink.

Wow, that is a weird look.

[Not a Cop]

Wow, that is a weird look.

That's just light eyebrows, you are propably not used to North-European phenos.

[Smaug]

That's just light eyebrows, you are propably not used to North-European phenos.

She is far from being typical to anywhere. North Euros look more... normal.

[Not a Cop]

She is far from being typical to anywhere. North Euros look more... normal.

As i said you're just not used to seeing such depigmented individuals, but her pigmentation and features are not atypical to N. European populations. It's not rare in N. Russia, even my father's friend daugher have same colouration.

Does she look more normal under different light and slight tan to you?

http://ilarge.listal.com/image/6381603/936full-linn-arvidsson.jpg

[Smaug]

As i said you're just not used to seeing such depigmented individuals, but her pigmentation and features are not atypical to N. European populations. It's not rare in N. Russia, even my father's friend daugher have same colouration.

Does she look more normal under different light and slight tan to you?

http://ilarge.listal.com/image/6381603/936full-linn-arvidsson.jpg

Now she looks more normal. I think this kind of look only exists in NE Europe. I've neer seen a Brit or German with this look.

[FeederOfRavens]

Now she looks more normal. I think this kind of look only exists in NE Europe. I've neer seen a Brit or German with this look.

Sweden isn't NE Europe.

[JohnSmith]

As i said you're just not used to seeing such depigmented individuals, but her pigmentation and features are not atypical to N. European populations. It's not rare in N. Russia, even my father's friend daugher have same colouration.

Does she look more normal under different light and slight tan to you?

http://ilarge.listal.com/image/6381603/936full-linn-arvidsson.jpg

At least she looks like a woman in this picture.

[Smaug]

Sweden isn't NE Europe.

Of course it is!?

[Smeagol]

Of course it is!?

No, Sweden is Western.

[Smaug]

No, Sweden is Western.

They cluster within their Baltic neighbours.

[Smeagol]

They cluster within their Baltic neighbours.

All North Europeans cluster together. Swedes are genetically close to Norwegians, Danes, Brits, Germans, and Dutch as well. Sweden also has typical Germanic phenotypes mostly and is also a part of the Western, Catholic-Protestant Civilization.

[Smaug]

All North Europeans cluster together. Swedes are genetically close to Norwegians, Danes, Brits, Germans, and Dutch as well. Sweden also has typical Germanic phenotypes mostly and is also a part of the Western, Catholic-Protestant Civilization.

And Finland or the Baltic States?

[FeederOfRavens]

And Finland or the Baltic States?

Finland I think is Western historically and culturally and Estonia partially Western.

[Smeagol]

And Finland or the Baltic States?

Technically part of the Western Civilization, but they are geographically Eastern, and have more Eastern Racial types. Swedes are closer to other Germanics.

[JohnSmith]

Finland I think is Western historically and culturally and Estonia partially Western.

I do not think Estonia is considered Western. I mean even East Germany is not really Western compared to West Germany. East Germany's standard of living is on par with Poland.

[FeederOfRavens]

I do not think Estonia is considered Western. I mean even East Germany is not really Western compared to West Germany. East Germany's standard of living is on par with Poland.


That's why I said partially Western. It's been under both Eastern and Western Empires before. Today it's Western politically. East Germany was only ever considered Eastern because of communism

[Bahaman]

Finland I think is Western historically and culturally and Estonia partially Western.
What the fuck are you talking about? Estonia is eastern 3rd world country.
Finland is culturally western. They shouldn't be compared

[Neon Knight]

Students from Stuttgart, south-west Germany:

http://keizertimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/0412-COM-German-exchange.jpg

Their facial features are closer to British than the northern Germans, but about eight of them still have that 'continental' look. Virtually all could pass in England, though.

[FeederOfRavens]

Students from Stuttgart, south-west Germany:

http://keizertimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/0412-COM-German-exchange.jpg

Their facial features are closer to British than the northern Germans, but about eight of them still have that 'continental' look. Virtually all could pass in England, though.

South Germans are an even mix between Germanic and Celtic like Britain.

[Imamudin]

Darker phenotypes are not found in the same quantities in the Netherlands and Scandinavia as Britain.

True, but the Dutch are significantly darker than North Germans.

[Tooting Carmen]

True, but the Dutch are significantly darker than North Germans.

Really??? Aren't the two on par?

[Sikeliot]

Britain has a higher frequency of dark types than Germany, but when Germans look darker, they look more authentically "southern European" than do most dark Brits. This is my experience at least.

[Jana]

True, but the Dutch are significantly darker than North Germans.

Yeah, right.

Brits are darker in hair color only, and maybe shorter as well. But not that different.

[Imamudin]

Really??? Aren't the two on par?

No, the Dutch seem to have slight more dark hair and tanned skin than North Germans. North Germany is actually also more stretched into the north than the Netherlands.

http://www.rsiworld.com/assets/_images/europe_map.gif

[Imamudin]

Yeah, right.

Brits are darker in hair color only, and maybe shorter as well. But not that different.

Dutch people are optically much more like British people than like Germans, but it's still not difficult to tell them apart in most cases.

[SupaThug]

It is a known fact that british islanders are the darkest northern european,but I agree that the % of dark brits is exagerated by some,I am sure that it is not hard to find darker people in other northern european germanic countries.I personally know a brazilian who was born to portuguese parents,she married the woggiest german I've ever seen,she looks like an average Iberian,but is much lighter than him.

[Brianna]

Students from Stuttgart, south-west Germany:

http://keizertimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/0412-COM-German-exchange.jpg

Their facial features are closer to British than the northern Germans, but about eight of them still have that 'continental' look. Virtually all could pass in England, though.

That almost looks like a random classroom in a random American Midwest high school.

[Jana]

Dutch people are optically much more like British people than like Germans, but it's still not difficult to tell them apart in most cases.

The Dutch I have seen looked more Germanic than Germans actually. Not similar to Brits.

[Also]

Yes, british people have considerable wog influences. They are more akin to southern euros than other northern euros are.

[pelikarski]

Most Brits are light with a significant minority of dark people, within European range of course

[Ruyi]

I've seen quite a few fairly dark skinned Britons before, not so much for Northern European countries though. One that always strikes me as odd looking is Victoria Beckham. Her complexion is rather dark, and I think she's partly German as well.

[Neon Knight]

Germans are blonder haired but I think the skin tones are the same. Darker skinned individuals in both countries are uncommon.

http://www.wbsc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Winners-Group-Photo-20131.jpg

[Imamudin]

Germans are blonder haired but I think the skin tones are the same. Darker skinned individuals in both countries are uncommon.

http://www.wbsc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Winners-Group-Photo-20131.jpg

British people are definitely darker on average than Germans. Atlanto-Mediterranid is not a German phenotype.

[Imamudin]

Most Brits are light with a significant minority of dark people, within European range of course

Compared to Georgians, they're light, compared to Germans, rather darker.

[interes]

Pure british are mostly blonde or light brown hair, and blue eyes. Some of their dark hair they get from ireland. Most of it comes from jews, italians, french, poles, indians and a million other immigrants in the last 5 centuries.

When anthropologists surveyed england in 1800s black hair was maybe 1-2% in any rural areas and it was virtually 100% light eyes. Now black hair is about 40%, brown eyes about 25%. It's pretty easy to do the math. Even scando countries today are darker than england used to be not that long ago.

That's probably where the bad teeth come from as well. You never see that in Irish people, or colonial americans.

:picard2:
n
polish people have more light hair than most brits

[Neon Knight]

Yes, british people have considerable wog influences. They are more akin to southern euros than other northern euros are.I don't think that is a scientific explanation. If the British had "considerable wog influences" then it would have influenced their whole genomes and they would not be genetically so close to Danes and Germans. The British are of older genetic stock and that is probably the basis of why we have darker hair colouring. It is a very small piece of the jigsaw puzzle.

[Marusya]

Yes. The British are really black people who don't get much sun. Hence, their blackness has faded over centuries of sunlight deprivation.

[Imamudin]

If the British had "considerable wog influences" then it would have influenced the whole genome and they would not be genetically so close to Danes and Germans.

British people aren't extraordinary close to Danes or Germans. You would be closer to the Dutch, French and Spaniards.

[Graham]

Yes. The British are really black people who don't get much sun. Hence, their blackness has faded over centuries of sunlight deprivation.

:P

[Neon Knight]

British people aren't extraordinary close to Danes or Germans. You would be closer to the Dutch, French and Spaniards.Dutch, yes, but that undermines the 'wog influence' argument. Get up-to-date with the genetics.

[Imamudin]

Dutch, yes, but that undermines the 'wog influence' argument. Get up-to-date with the genetics.

I am, that's why I am so confused about what you're saying here.

[Beit El]

No, the Dutch seem to have slight more dark hair and tanned skin than North Germans. North Germany is actually also more stretched into the north than the Netherlands.

http://www.rsiworld.com/assets/_images/europe_map.gif

Dutch and Northern Germans are the same people. You are full of shit.

[Imamudin]

Dutch and Northern Germans are the same people. You are full of shit.

Why should they?

[Catkin]

Just to show some Brit genes and distances to other populations, my Eurogenes K13 results. I'm Southern English and Irish.

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Dutch 2.43
2 Orcadian 2.68
3 Irish 2.91
4 Danish 3.23
5 West_Scottish 3.64
6 Southeast_English 3.84
7 North_German 4.2
8 Southwest_English 4.48
9 Norwegian 4.79
10 Swedish 6.93
11 South_Dutch 7.34
12 West_German 8.23
13 North_Swedish 13.12
14 Austrian 13.13
15 French 13.14
16 East_German 13.54
17 Hungarian 17.71
18 Spanish_Cataluna 20.48
19 Southwest_Finnish 21.14
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.68

[Beit El]

Why should they?

The Dutch-German border is in the middle of an ethno-linguistic continuum. Cross the border and the only thing that changes are the laws.

[Imamudin]

The Dutch-German border is in the middle of an ethno-linguistic continuum. Cross the border and the only thing that changes are the laws.

North Germans are closer to Danes and Poles than to the Dutch, except extreme West Germans.

[Beit El]

North Germans are closer to Danes and Poles than to the Dutch, except extreme West Germans.

Source?

[Imamudin]

Source?

I don't need a source for that, it's more than obvious.

[Septentrion]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51554&d=1413718838
Brits are "darker" than the Poles. By the way most "light" countries are those around the Baltic Sea: Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Baltic States,
northwestern Russia, northern Poland and northern Germany.

Poles are not never as a whole lighter-complexioned than the Brits/Irish. The Polish groups comparable to the Brits/Irish are northern Poles. The Irish and Scottish in particular surpass them by far in terms of pale skin, freckling, blue/light eyes.

[Septentrion]

Nonsense!! North Germans are genetically much closer to the Danes, North Dutch and the Irish than they would to Poles. Now that's a scientific fact, even posted by the Eurogenes.

[Imamudin]

Nonsense!! North Germans are genetically much closer to the Danes, North Dutch and the Irish than they would to Poles. Now that's a scientific fact, even posted by the Eurogenes.

North West Germans maybe but North East Germans not.

[Deneb]

Nonsense!! North Germans are genetically much closer to the Danes, North Dutch and the Irish than they would to Poles. Now that's a scientific fact, even posted by the Eurogenes.

I seriously doubt it. Geography is too important in terms of overlapping. Dublin is too far away from Berlin.

[Grace O'Malley]

I seriously doubt it. Geography is too important in terms of overlapping. Dublin is too far away from Berlin.

I've gathered quite a few Gedmatch results for Irish people in this thread. Take a look at the results and see what you think about it?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?170150-Discussion-of-Irish-genetics-thread

For some reason all the populations of North Western Europe are quite close together. Some people might have theories on the subject but I think a lot of these people have similar origins in Bell Beaker / Corded Ware. Southern Europeans have more neolithic / Farmer ancestry which makes them a bit more distant. In genetics the differences are more north and south than west and east.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8445/7888154404_fbbbe00962_o.png

[Visage pâle]

British are lighter skinned and eyed than germans and dutch, they are darker in hair color, but not that much.

[Petalpusher]

I've gathered quite a few Gedmatch results for Irish people in this thread. Take a look at the results and see what you think about it?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?170150-Discussion-of-Irish-genetics-thread

For some reason all the populations of North Western Europe are quite close together. Some people might have theories on the subject but I think a lot of these people have similar origins in Bell Beaker / Corded Ware. Southern Europeans have more neolithic / Farmer ancestry which makes them a bit more distant. In genetics the differences are more north and south than west and east.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8445/7888154404_fbbbe00962_o.png

There s even more overlap than this in real, it depends how referencial the samples were when integrated into the graph or the components used exactly, but this one is a good starting point to get a general idea. Irish have less extremes than England (which already have less than some other big countries), as a whole they are a bit closer to Germanics than England. You can see it on that kind of graph :

http://s3.postimg.org/kbt7aueoz/8524065981_340dc95aeb_o.jpg

they are not on the left but the big chunk is slightly up and right contrary to what the geography would suggest, and in a smaller cluster, big overlap with NL and Norway, close to DE1 (North German roughly) and Danes. I ve seen some PCA where the overlap is almost total between UK and Germany.

[Neon Knight]

I've gathered quite a few Gedmatch results for Irish people in this thread. Take a look at the results and see what you think about it?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?170150-Discussion-of-Irish-genetics-thread

For some reason all the populations of North Western Europe are quite close together. Some people might have theories on the subject but I think a lot of these people have similar origins in Bell Beaker / Corded Ware. Southern Europeans have more neolithic / Farmer ancestry which makes them a bit more distant. In genetics the differences are more north and south than west and east.

Inheritance from those ancient migrations probably explains a lot of the similarities, but what explains the differences? At some period in history Scandinavians, Netherlanders and the majority of Germans acquired or developed a greater than normal incidence of blond hair genes - a process which was not repeated in the British Isles or France. So I think blond hair must be a relatively recent thing - more recent than blue eyes which do occur at about the same frequency in northwestern Europe.

A class of English high school children from the 1980s:

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/2/a1wc1ngf.jpg

[Deneb]

I've gathered quite a few Gedmatch results for Irish people in this thread. Take a look at the results and see what you think about it?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?170150-Discussion-of-Irish-genetics-thread

For some reason all the populations of North Western Europe are quite close together. Some people might have theories on the subject but I think a lot of these people have similar origins in Bell Beaker / Corded Ware. Southern Europeans have more neolithic / Farmer ancestry which makes them a bit more distant. In genetics the differences are more north and south than west and east.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8445/7888154404_fbbbe00962_o.png

I would like to see specifically NE Germany results and then compare them with Irish and western Poles..

[Deneb]

On the other hand I don't see her as Irish at all. I do believe she fits better in Poland than Ireland.

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag391/emibuf/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-06/5204F2B0-2F17-4118-A5D8-C1D9678E89D6_zps9rksre8r.jpg (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/emibuf/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-06/5204F2B0-2F17-4118-A5D8-C1D9678E89D6_zps9rksre8r.jpg.html)

[Grace O'Malley]

Inheritance from those ancient migrations probably explains a lot of the similarities, but what explains the differences? At some period in history Scandinavians, Netherlanders and the majority of Germans acquired or developed a greater than normal incidence of blond hair genes - a process which was not repeated in the British Isles or France. So I think blond hair must be a relatively recent thing - more recent than blue eyes which do occur at about the same frequency in northwestern Europe.

A class of English high school children from the 1980s:

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/2/a1wc1ngf.jpg

There is a sort of clade in populations going from less blond to more blond around the Baltic and from the British Isles more pale freckled skin to more medium skin tones. The original populations carried slightly different percentages of certain traits. Possibly they might decipher what genes where carried into different populations with ancient genomes. R1b L21 appears to be more associated with red hair and R1a with blond but this is only in a general sense as both groups have both types of hair colouring just to different degrees. Different traits could be due to founder effect. The difference in hair colour is really only a matter of some populations being more brown haired and some more blond. I think a lot of these things are exaggerated. It is also difficult to compare small populations with more limited genetic variance to larger populations with a much larger gene pool.

[Gooding]

Dutch, yes, but that undermines the 'wog influence' argument. Get up-to-date with the genetics.

Darker?

http://i.imgur.com/taLIBMQ.jpg


Darker?? Nonsense. :picard2:

[StonyArabia]

The British do have darker elements but they are a minority, with the exception of Wales. However the average British is darker than the average Anglo American most likely due to the infusion of German and Scando bloodlines in the case of Anglo Americans.

[Gooding]

The British do have darker elements but they are a minority, with the exception of Wales. However the average British is darker than the average Anglo American most likely due to the infusion of German and Scando bloodlines.

Meh, point taken. :p There are quite a few families of Anglo- German extraction ( and even the odd Scotch- Irish family has some German infusion) in the Mid- Atlantic area, such as Pennsylvania and Virginia ( and through them down into Kentucky and Tennessee) and who can tell on which side of the dark/ fair spectrum a particular phenotype will fall?

[Grace O'Malley]

On the other hand I don't see her as Irish at all. I do believe she fits better in Poland than Ireland.

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag391/emibuf/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-06/5204F2B0-2F17-4118-A5D8-C1D9678E89D6_zps9rksre8r.jpg (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/emibuf/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-06/5204F2B0-2F17-4118-A5D8-C1D9678E89D6_zps9rksre8r.jpg.html)

Poland is a bit different. The North Western cluster is more Ireland, Britain, Norway, Denmark, Netherland, Belgium, Northern France. I'm sure East Germans would be closer to Poland regarding genetics. While all these population cluster close together they obviously have differences but when looking at genetics they still cluster more closely than a lot of countries. Just for example there is a bigger difference in genetics between North German and South Germans than some countries in this dna cluster.

This is a good map that illustrates this.

http://s28.postimg.org/obcl9ajn1/pca12.png

http://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/novembreblogpostfig.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

The British do have darker elements but they are a minority, with the exception of Wales. However the average British is darker than the average Anglo American most likely due to the infusion of German and Scando bloodlines in the case of Anglo Americans.

The darkness of Wales is way overblown. They are similar to other populations in the area and very much a North Western European population. The darkness of Wales is an anthroforum meme.

[Grace O'Malley]

Poland is a bit different. The North Western cluster is more Ireland, Britain, Norway, Denmark, Netherland, Belgium, Northern France. I'm sure East Germans would be closer to Poland regarding genetics. While all these population cluster close together they obviously have differences but when looking at genetics they still cluster more closely than a lot of single countries do. Just for example there is a bigger difference in genetics between North German and South Germans than some countries in this dna cluster.

This is a good map that illustrates this.

http://s28.postimg.org/obcl9ajn1/pca12.png

http://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/novembreblogpostfig.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

What I find fascinating is the difference between North and South Dutch. Every country in the British Isles is between North Dutch and South Dutch. One would expect a country like Ireland separated by a sea to be more distant to Britain but the Orkneys, West Scottish and Irish are all grouped together. It's really odd but there is a reasonable divide for such a small country like the Netherlands.

[Gooding]

What I find fascinating is the difference between North and South Dutch. Every country in the British Isles is between North Dutch and South Dutch. One would expect a country like Ireland separated by a sea to be more distant to Britain but the Orkneys, West Scottish and Irish are all grouped together. It's really odd but there is a reasonable divide for such a small country like the Netherlands.

If I may, Ms. O' Malley. There is a thread about the Dutch where it has been postulated that the South Dutch/ Flemish people are actually Germanized Gauls, while the North Dutch/ Frisians are more Frankish/ Germanic racially. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?176372-Dutch-Thread/page2 No one was more surprised than I to learn that descendants of the ancient Gauls still exist today.

[Grace O'Malley]

If I may, Ms. O' Malley. There is a thread about the Dutch where it has been postulated that the South Dutch/ Flemish people are actually Germanized Gauls, while the North Dutch/ Frisians are more Frankish/ Germanic racially. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?176372-Dutch-Thread/page2 No one was more surprised than I to learn that descendants of the ancient Gauls still exist today.

Well that throws up another conundrum then. Why are the Scots and Irish closer to the North Dutch and not the South Dutch? :)

[Neon Knight]

What I find fascinating is the difference between North and South Dutch. Every country in the British Isles is between North Dutch and South Dutch. One would expect a country like Ireland separated by a sea to be more distant to Britain but the Orkneys, West Scottish and Irish are all grouped together. It's really odd but there is a reasonable divide for such a small country like the Netherlands.

It might not be real. I'd have to see genetic pie charts of the two areas before I believed there was a significant difference.

[Graham]

It is a North-South thing that probably Pre-dates the Germanic migrations into Britain.

Eurogenes K8

French
ANE 11.48%
Near_Eastern 45.65%
WHG 42.6%

South Dutch
ANE 13.25%
Near_Eastern 43.05%
WHG 41.66%

South East English
ANE 13.78%
Near_Eastern 39.83%
WHG 45.33%

West Scottish
ANE 15.20%
Near_Eastern 38.04%
WHG 45.52%

North Dutch
ANE 14.96%
Near_Eastern 37.8%
WHG 46.8%

Norwegian
ANE 15.51%
Near_Eastern 35.87%
WHG 47.04%

R-L21 Iron Age Briton
ANE 15.08%
Near_Eastern 35.44%
WHG 48.05%

[Balmung]

A class of English high school children from the 1980s:

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/2/a1wc1ngf.jpg

I could mistake them for American highschool children from the same period. Maybe Britain is dark, whoa.

[Neon Knight]

I've just found an up-to-date study of the Dutch:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?176778-Study-of-Netherlanders&p=3685340#post3685340

[Brianna]

Well that throws up another conundrum then. Why are the Scots and Irish closer to the North Dutch and not the South Dutch? :)

Graham confirmed my theory. I was disappointed when I saw his post. I wanted to appear the savant.

[Gooding]

Well that throws up another conundrum then. Why are the Scots and Irish closer to the North Dutch and not the South Dutch? :)

I dare not speculate.

[Neon Knight]

According to that photo I posted up there, blond hair is about 15% in England.

[Gooding]

According to that photo I posted up there, blond hair is about 15% in England.

So, if a blonde American were to visit England, he or she would probably stand out a bit. That's interesting.

[Neon Knight]

So, if a blonde American were to visit England, he or she would probably stand out a bit. That's interesting.

An individual white American would not stand out in the slightest. Is the incidence of blond hair in white Americans much higher than 15%?

[♥ Lily ♥]

Some of the junk I read...:rolleyes:

http://i.picasion.com/resize80/15a4d79c106b07e341bdd8fa30d571df.gifhttp://i.picasion.com/resize80/6fab4839eb2854052f42d83a4947d4aa.gif

Brits are often teased in other nations for being so pale.

Redheads are the palest Europeans and the British Isles and Ireland have the highest percentage of redheads. The reason why we're the palest Europeans is a result of the natural evolution process and adaption to our cloudy climate and the low altitude of our island, so that we can absorb vitamin D more easily through our fairer skin in lower sunlight levels. I've noticed that Scandinavians seem to tan in the sun and their skin isn't as pale.