View Full Version : Gas transit crisis
In your opinion, who is bblocking the gas transit, Russia or Ukraine?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/13/gazprom-resumes-europe-supplies
Russia and Ukraine today traded bitter accusations after gas deliveries to Europe were abruptly halted hours after Russia's state energy company, Gazprom, said it had restarted supplies supposed to end the European Union's fuel crisis.
The EU said "little or no gas" was flowing to countries suffering urgent energy shortages and urged both Russia and Ukraine to release as much gas as possible. Gazprom said Ukraine had stopped gas flows and Russian observers were prevented from inspecting Ukrainian gas stations. Kiev said Russia had "provocatively" sent the gas the wrong way.
Gazprom said its pumping stations had begun delivering gas at 10.46am Moscow time, following a monitoring deal signed in Brussels yesterday. But four hours later, a spokesman for the company said Ukraine was blocking the flow of gas - and accused the US of being behind the decision.
"We believed yesterday that the door for Russian gas was open but again it's been blocked by the Ukrainians," the Gazprom deputy CEO, Alexander Medvedev, said in a conference call with reporters.
"It looks like... they are dancing to the music which is being orchestrated not in Kiev but outside the country."
Medvedev said he was referring to an agreement signed between Ukraine and the US. He did not name the agreement, but may have been referring to a strategic partnership deal signed last month in Washington that the US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, said would enhance cooperation over energy security and other matters.
Most of Europe's gas imports from Russia arrive through the pipelines in Ukraine, and the dispute has left hundreds of thousands without heating during freezing temperatures.
Russia has accused Ukraine of siphoning off gas to make up for a shortfall since Moscow turned off the tap on 1 January. Ukraine has denied the charge and says Moscow was holding European energy consumers to ransom. The bitter row has left European countries scrabbling to find alternative energy supplies
Ukraine's state energy firm, Naftogaz, said today there had not been enough coordination over the routes chosen for the gas and the volumes shipped to ensure the smooth transit across Ukraine. "This seriously violates the established practice of reliable functioning of the gas transit system," it said in a statement.
Ukrainian officials said that Gazprom had "deliberately" sent the gas the wrong way - via a route that would have meant switching off the gas to Ukrainian consumers in the east of the country. "Today's request by Russia for the alleged resumption of gas flows is entirely provocative, because the Ukrainian gas transportation system has been given a technically unrealistic task," Bohdan Sokolovsky, Ukraine's commissioner for energy security told Interfax.
Instead of supplying gas via the traditional route, through Ukraine's Belgorod and Rostov region, gas had been sent via a bypass route, he said, which would paralyse supplies to parts of Ukraine. "This is just provocation against Ukraine," he said.
Ukraine's president Viktor Yushchenko went further. His office compared Russia's actions to those of the Nazis during the wartime siege of Leningrad. Andrei Kislinksy, deputy head of Ukraine's presidential secretariat, said Moscow was trying to seize control of Ukraine's gas network and topple the pro-western president. The gas war "increasingly resembles the blockade of Leningrad after the failure of the bliztkrieg," Kislinksky said, adding: "We are talking first of all about making president Viktor Yushchenko...step down as president."
Today's developments will appall the European Union, which had hoped that supplies would reach the freezing countries of southern and central Europe by later today and tomorrow. It now appears that the breakdown of trust between Moscow and Kiev is so profound and far-reaching that European countries can expect further delays before any gas reaches them.
Additionally, Moscow and Kiev have also failed to reach basic agreement over who will pay for the 'technical' gas needed to resume supplies via Ukraine to the European Union. Ukraine is insisting that Moscow stump up the cost of the gas - some 21 million cubic metres a day. Russia says that Kiev has to pay for it, or dig it up from its reserves. The two sides have also not resolved their acrimonious bilateral dispute over how much Ukraine will pay for Russian gas in 2009.
Russia today said it had already informed the European Commission that it has been unable to transport gas to Europe through Ukraine. Russia's prime minister Vladimir Putin phoned Jose Manuel Barroso, the European Commission president. Putin told him Russian gas was unable to get into Ukraine's system, adding: "It is shut."
In your opinion, who is bblocking the gas transit, Russia or Ukraine?
Ukraine
Revenant
01-13-2009, 03:14 PM
I think Ukraine.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20090113/119470055.html
According to this even a test delivery is a drama. What the hell is going on?.
European Commission says Ukraine blocking resumed gas flows
The European Commission has confirmed reports that Ukraine is blocking gas flowing to Europe. A spokesman in Brussels said that "little or no gas" was flowing from Russia through the Ukraine to Europe and demanded that the situation must change. Russian gas company Gazprom said the Ukrainians were blocking gas again destined for Europe. Earlier on Tuesday Gazprom officials ordered the resumption of gas supplies through Ukraine to Europe following an EU-brokered monitoring deal. Hundreds of thousands of people in Europe have been left without gas since a contract dispute came to a head with Russia shutting off supplies last week. Moscow has accused Kiev of siphoning off gas meant for European customers.
They say the USA is backing Ukraine. There is a special secret treaty between the two countries... It looks like the Yanks want to undermine European economy and, possibly, provoke Russia to attack and occupy Ukraine.
If the above is true, there will be no gas in Europe this winter. So far Gazprom is using its reserves in European storage facilities, and Germany is 100% supplied, but it is not for long...
Revenant
01-13-2009, 04:58 PM
They say the USA is backing Ukraine. There is a special secret treaty between the two countries... It looks like the Yanks want to undermine European economy and, possibly, provoke Russia to attack and occupy Ukraine.
Who's they?.
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS
01-13-2009, 05:05 PM
Yeah, which country has an extreme urge to bully and dominate neighbouring countries, and which country is a loyal puppet to the west? Ukraine would never dare. Russia would though.
Who's they?.
http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/or/113366.htm
Recognizing the importance of a well functioning energy sector, the parties intend to work closely together on rehabilitating and modernizing the capacity of Ukraine’s gas transit infrastructure and diversify and secure Ukraine’s sources of nuclear fuel making Ukraine less dependent on foreign sources of nuclear fuel and nuclear fuel storage.
Yeah, which country has an extreme urge to bully and dominate neighbouring countries,
Aren't you talking about Sweden?
Skandi
01-13-2009, 05:55 PM
unable to make a decision on this poll as there is a decided lack of impartial information available. Who to believe? Well I'm afraid I'll be a cynic and disbelieve both, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
The USA say it's Russia. The European Commission, Italy and Romania say it's Ukraine. More countries will join the latter in next few days, I'm sure.
The USA say it's Russia. The European Commission, Italy and Romania say it's Ukraine.
Very predictable. This has everything to do with geopolitical stance, and none with the reality of the situation. Current US foreign policy is decidedly anti-Russian -- I don't think there is any doubt about that.
Æmeric
01-13-2009, 08:10 PM
You should have had a "Don't give a damn" option. Russo-Ukrainian relations bore the hell out of me.:icon_yawn: But I sympathize with those of you who are freezing your bums off over this dispute.
It's the Russian section, dude. You're not interested - you don't read it.
Another thing is that it's your country/public opinion which is responsible for this bum freezing.
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS
01-13-2009, 08:41 PM
Aren't you talking about Sweden?
Well, let's see:
Sweden - neutral country that supports the European community even though they suffer from it.
Russia - A hostile nation that by ways of the military invades neighbouring countries as late as 2008.
Do you really want to play this game?
Well, let's see:
Sweden - neutral country that supports the European community even though they suffer from it.
Russia - A hostile nation that by ways of the military invades neighbouring countries as late as 2008.
Do you really want to play this game?
Fitting post for a devout Apricity Stalinist. :p ;)
Well, let's see:
Sweden - neutral country that supports the European community even though they suffer from it.
Russia - A hostile nation that by ways of the military invades neighbouring countries as late as 2008.
Do you really want to play this game?
Yeah, and you will lose it, unless, of course, you we're limited to 2008 only... because throughout history belligerent bloodthirsty land-grabbing Sweden was pain in ass for all its neighbours and even neighbours of its neighbours. :rolleyes:
SwordoftheVistula
01-14-2009, 05:27 AM
Another thing is that it's your country/public opinion which is responsible for this bum freezing.
As with the Georgia thing, it's all them. We might have embolden them with NATO membership, but we're not going to risk lives or go to great expense to ensure delivery of heat to some hovels in central Europe.
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS
01-14-2009, 06:23 AM
Yeah, and you will lose it, unless, of course, you we're limited to 2008 only... because throughout history belligerent bloodthirsty land-grabbing Sweden was pain in ass for all its neighbours and even neighbours of its neighbours. :rolleyes:
No, we're not talking 2008, but we are talking current situation. I don't think Sweden is guilty in the gas transit crisis just because we invaded Russia 1808.
If you would look back, however, you would notice that Sweden was attacked in 50% of all the wars she has fought in, which is very unique for what once was a great power.
And what does the peacekeeping operation of Russia in Georgia have to do with the current situation? I don't think Russia is guilty in the gas transit crisis just because we invaded Georgia in 2008. :)
HawkR
01-14-2009, 09:32 AM
If the above is true, there will be no gas in Europe this winter.
You might be right, but there's one country you haven't looked at; Norway. We have so many oil and gas platforms and pumping stations, and since Norway uses wood and water for warmth and power, we don't need the gas, so we sell it. Here where I live, we have the Kårstø-pump station, and Kårstø delivers gas all over Europe:) So if Ukraine is acting asshole, Europe don't need to be afraid, yes, there will be less gas resulting in less possibilities for gas use, but I don't reckon anyone will die or stuff like that.
Europe has to be afraid. Norway cannot increase its natural gas production significantly and thus compensate the missing amount of natural gas. Central and Western Europe are not freezing only because Russia foresaw the crisis and made huge reserves in natural gas storages in Europe, plus their own reserves. They will last till spring, but after that...
Another thing is that Norwegian natural gas reserves are almost depleted. Several years ago Russia even proposed to Norway to sell its gas pipeline system, as it will soon become dry. The offer was refused for political reasons.
And once rich British and Dutch natural gas deposits are run out already, the production is in rapid decline.
The Russian natural gas has NO ALTERNATIVE.
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS
01-14-2009, 01:56 PM
And what does the peacekeeping operation of Russia in Georgia have to do with the current situation? I don't think Russia is guilty in the gas transit crisis just because we invaded Georgia in 2008. :)
2008 is pretty current. And Georgia have nothing to do with Ukraine and the gas, but it's how Russia behaved and behaves towards that is pretty telling.
What is also very telling is how you view the Russo-Georgian conflict of 2008. I don't think Georgians consider themselves peacekeeped.
We know how wary we should be of Russia. In 2008 you confirmed it.
2008 is pretty current.
No, it is not. It's already 2009.
And Georgia have nothing to do with Ukraine and the gas, but it's how Russia behaved and behaves towards that is pretty telling.
Russia has protected the weak against the oppressor. Good. :thumb001:
What is also very telling is how you view the Russo-Georgian conflict of 2008. I don't think Georgians consider themselves peacekeeped.
Who cares about Georgians? Abhazians and South Ossetians are ecstatic! ;)
We know how wary we should be of Russia. In 2008 you confirmed it.
... quite contrary to peaceful Sweden, dedicating itself to liberalism, multi-culturalism, race-mixing and practising promiscuity, homosexualism and zoophilia...
Absinthe
01-14-2009, 02:18 PM
... quite contrary to peaceful Sweden, dedicating itself to liberalism, multi-culturalism, race-mixing and practising promiscuity, homosexualism and zoophilia...
Hors, you have been trolling shamelessly since day 1. Sometimes it's entertaining but it has started becoming annoying. :rolleyes:
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS
01-14-2009, 02:38 PM
No, it is not. It's already 2009.
Of course 2008 is current. We're only two weeks into 2009. One month ago isn't ancient times. It's not like they've printed new history books and teach about 2008 in history class. The Iraq and Afghanistan war is also very current. Especially considering the one who started the war (because it was a hostile conflict, as in war) is still in power in Russia.
Russia has protected the weak against the oppressor. Good. :thumb001:
Russia has declared war on a lesser power. Who's the weak of the two nations of Russia and Georgia?
Who cares about Georgians? Abhazians and South Ossetians are ecstatic! ;)
Maybe the Georgians? Yeah who cares about a small country being invaded by a greater power. :rolleyes2:
... quite contrary to peaceful Sweden, dedicating itself to liberalism, multi-culturalism, race-mixing and practising promiscuity, homosexualism and zoophilia...
Troll. Have you ever been to Sweden? Have you ever been outside of Russia? Maybe you were on the frontier in Georgia, though I doubt you're old enough. As far as I'm concerned, you're a troll. :thumbs up
Of course 2008 is current. We're only two weeks into 2009.
Check the calendar, 2009 is current, not 2008.
One month ago isn't ancient times. It's not like they've printed new history books and teach about 2008 in history class. The Iraq and Afghanistan war is also very current. Especially considering the one who started the war (because it was a hostile conflict, as in war) is still in power in Russia.
Very lame.
Russia has declared war on a lesser power. Who's the weak of the two nations of Russia and Georgia?
Georgia invaded South Ossetia and was preparing to attack Abkhazia. Last time Georgia did it back in 90s it was accompanied with large scale genocide of Abkhazians and Ossetians, Georgia being an overtly Nazi-styly state. Russia has not declared war on Georgia but just kicked the Georgian invaders off from South Ossetia (both times).
Besides, as Russia is ever victoriois and thus "bigger power", does it mean we can not defend the weak?
Maybe the Georgians? Yeah who cares about a small country being invaded by a greater power. :rolleyes2:
Russia cared about small countries of Abkhazia and South Ossetia being invaded by a greater power, that's Georgia.
Troll. Have you ever been to Sweden? Have you ever been outside of Russia? Maybe you were on the frontier in Georgia, though I doubt you're old enough. As far as I'm concerned, you're a troll.
Back in the Soviet times (were you pissing into your pampers or not conceived back then?) I lived in Western Europe for many years.
Thank God it was not Sweden, where zoophilia is so widespread that it's even LEGAL.
And it is on the RISE.
And, do you know who is infamous for bestiality down here? GEORGIANS !!!
So no wonder Swedes are so concerned about their swarthy Asiatic "brothers" being beaten by Russians...
Lenny
01-14-2009, 07:45 PM
- Russia dreams of dominating and "russifying" its neighbors, no different today than yesterday. They think Ukraine is rightfully Russian.
- Russians feel no shame at all about the genocides committed against non-Russians who they ruled. (See here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=916)).
- Russia is a bully, but so is the USA. The losers between their silly imperial/anti-national power-plays are all European-derived people on Earth.
.
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS
01-15-2009, 08:54 AM
Check the calendar, 2009 is current, not 2008.
2008 was two weeks ago. The man who started the Russo-Georgian war of 2008 (Putin) is still in power, he can make the same decisions he's made before.
Georgia invaded South Ossetia and was preparing to attack Abkhazia. Last time Georgia did it back in 90s it was accompanied with large scale genocide of Abkhazians and Ossetians, Georgia being an overtly Nazi-styly state. Russia has not declared war on Georgia but just kicked the Georgian invaders off from South Ossetia (both times).
How can Georgia invade Georgia? South Ossetia is a part of Georgia, they have not crossed another country's borders.
Besides, as Russia is ever victoriois and thus "bigger power", does it mean we can not defend the weak?
Of course you can defend your borders and those within it.
Russia cared about small countries of Abkhazia and South Ossetia being invaded by a greater power, that's Georgia.
They are not countries, they are a part of Georgia. They are not accepted by the world community in the same way Georgia is. As a part of Georgia, they are subject to Georgian law if the two parties have agreed on another solution.
Thank God it was not Sweden, where zoophilia is so widespread that it's even LEGAL.
False. But thanks for trying. :thumbs up
And it is on the RISE.
Would like source on that though. Considering it's essential to the matter we're discussing. You bring up zoophilia in other countries when discussing the gas crisis in Ukraine? Are you weird? Or simply a troll, as I and others here have guessed already?
And, do you know who is infamous for bestiality down here? GEORGIANS !!!
So no wonder Swedes are so concerned about their swarthy Asiatic "brothers" being beaten by Russians...
Well if it's important for you to know, Georgia is not important to me. I don't care about them at all. I just dislike Russia. Russians are the true swarthy Asiatic, especially after the Russo-Soviet race-mixing agenda. And you're not "brothers".
HawkR
01-15-2009, 09:05 AM
2008 was two weeks ago. The man who started the Russo-Georgian war of 2008 (Putin) is still in power, he can make the same decisions he's made before.
True.
Check the calendar, 2009 is current, not 2008.
Just because we've entered a new year, doesn't mean last year ain't current.
And why do you troll about Sweden? Is is really neccesary? And does it have ANYTHING to do with the topic?
(Just waiting for the ad hominems...)
Just because we've entered a new year, doesn't mean last year ain't current.
Nobel Prize winner :D
And why do you troll about Sweden? Is is really neccesary? And does it have ANYTHING to do with the topic?
If attitudes of Russia matter, according to G.A.'s opinion, so do attitudes of Sweden.
You bring up zoophilia in other countries when discussing the gas crisis in Ukraine?
Of course not, as
(1) bestialia is characteristic only for your kin. i.e. Swedes and
(2) you have risen the question of a country's morale putting the blame for the crisis on Russia...
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/may/05050406.html
Bestiality on the Rise in Sexually Libertine Sweden
STOCKHOLM, Sweden, May 5, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Sweden, known the world over for its avant garde sexual mores has crossed yet another barrier in its moral descent with the news that sexual abuse of animals is on the increase. A government commissioned study has found that more than 200 animals, mostly horses, have been sexually abused in Sweden since the 1970s.
The Swedish Animal Welfare Agency collected its information based on responses received from 1,600 questionnaires sent to veterinarians, animal welfare inspectors and police agencies across the country. In the period 2000 to 2004, 119 cases of bestiality were documented, compared to just three known cases in the 1970s, 17 in the 1980s and 70 in the 1990s.
The author of the report indicated that the numbers may not correctly reflect the real problem. Katarina Andersson, said that the rise in documented cases did not necessarily mean that there was a de facto increase.
"We know that there must be cases that have not been documented," she said, adding that people have also become more aware of the problem in recent years and are therefore more likely to report suspected cases to the authorities.
Animal welfare agents are not concerned about the morality of the act, or that human beings would actually resort to this kind of behaviour, but rather are concerned that animals are being hurt and are perhaps suffering "psychological harm" in the process. "Even if it is difficult to assess an animal's degree of psychological suffering, it is likely that it experiences discomfort or is subjected to psychological suffering even in cases where there is no evidence of physical injury," said the report.
Unlike most countries, bestiality is not illegal in Sweden. The legal prohibitions against both bestiality and homosexuality were lifted by the country in 1944. Advancing secularism has played the major role in the sexual radicalization of Sweden. In an article published last year entitled "The End of Marriage in Scandinavia", author Stanley Kurtz reported "Sweden is probably the most secular country in the world. Secular social scientists (most of them quite radical) have largely replaced clerics as arbiters of public morality."
. Sweden's sweeping hate crime lawThe decline of general sexual morality, evident in Swedish society, seems to be manifesting itself in many disturbing ways, spiraling downward with increasing rapidity which criminalizes speaking out against homosexuality has been criticized by Pope Benedict. In an interview published last year in the Italian newspaper "La Reppublica" and re-distributed world-wide via the Vatican Information Service, then Cardinal Ratzinger, recalled, "In Sweden, a Protestant pastor who had preached about homosexuality, based on a line from Scriptures, went to jail for one month."
Well if it's important for you to know, Georgia is not important to me. I don't care about them at all. I just dislike Russia. Russians are the true swarthy Asiatic, especially after the Russo-Soviet race-mixing agenda. And you're not "brothers".
Who cares about your opinion or opinion of your entire completely unimportant, small and fast dying-out country? There are more Asiatic Muslims there percent-wise than Russia ever conquered :D
As for Russians being swarthy...
Lundman (1946): «i mellersta Ryssland enl. tabeller hos Bunak aa, håret är föga mörkare än Mellansverige, fastän ögonen äro vida mörkare»
:D
And that's BEFORE the Swedish population got thoroughly intermixed with various muds...
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS
01-15-2009, 10:03 AM
Who cares about your opinion or opinion of your entire completely unimportant, small and fast dying-out country?
I don't think you're completely in line with the forum's European stance. Furthermore, you need an update on our laws.
As for Russians being swarthy...
Lundman (1946): «i mellersta Ryssland enl. tabeller hos Bunak aa, håret är föga mörkare än Mellansverige, fastän ögonen äro vida mörkare»
:D
Do you even understand what that means?! :rolleyes2:
Translated into English, this means "In central Russia (alone, this does not mean all of Russia) according to charts from Bunak, the hair is little darker than middle Sweden though the eyes are exceptionally darker."
So in a nutshell, the Russians are considerably darker. Also, consider this was before the race-mixing agenda of Russo-Soviet.
And that's BEFORE the Swedish population got thoroughly intermixed with various muds...
I'll be looking forward to your first visit to Sweden to see us with your own eyes for the first time.
Now, topic. Gas. Ukraine. Ring any bells?
TheGreatest
01-15-2009, 10:23 AM
- Russia dreams of dominating and "russifying" its neighbors, no different today than yesterday. They think Ukraine is rightfully Russian.
- Russians feel no shame at all about the genocides committed against non-Russians who they ruled. (See here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=916)).
- Russia is a bully, but so is the USA. The losers between their silly imperial/anti-national power-plays are all European-derived people on Earth.
.
The Russians are mongols. They are Slavs and a lot of them used to be ruled by ancient Byzantium. From Genghis Kahn to Stalin, they have not changed. They never will and we will never learn, at least, not until it is too late.
Patton had the right idea.
The Russians have always had their eyes set for much more than the Ukrainians. If it was possible, they would Rusify the entire continent. Russia is the Mongol Imperium. It lives and conspires to assimilate the people of Europe into it's Dark Empire.
Vulpix
01-15-2009, 10:44 AM
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/8430/aboutlifesitenewscomzv2.png
Nice logo :thumb001:
Nevermind that this is terribly off topic:
How do you know that is the ethnic Swedes? There's no mention of ethnicity, yours is just an assumption.
In the period 2000 to 2004, 119 cases of bestiality were documented, compared to just three known cases in the 1970s, 17 in the 1980s and 70 in the 1990s.Is it a coincidence that this "practice" increased dramatically with soaring immigration? I think not.
Sweden however seems to be the only country to dare documenting the topic:
Andersson said it was difficult to determine whether sex with animals was more common in Sweden than in other countries.
"It's impossible to say. We have not been able to find other studies from other countries because they haven't done extensive studies," she said.
http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1357&date=20050429
I don't think you're completely in line with the forum's European stance. I'm starting to doubt that as well.
Treffie
01-15-2009, 10:58 AM
During the last few years, it appears Russia has been taking advantage of its new found economic status - ie, huge natural gas and oil resources. But Russia needs to be reliable if it wants to be taken seriously and now that Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are looking westwards for the growth of their economies, it'll only be a matter of time before the west starts looking elsewhere.
I don't think you're completely in line with the forum's European stance.
Not if it includes the "swarthy Mongoloid Russian" agenda.
Furthermore, you need an update on our laws.
Sweden prohibited bestiality finally? I'd like to read more about it! :thumb001:
Do you even understand what that means?! :rolleyes2:
Yes.
Translated into English, this means "In central Russia (alone, this does not mean all of Russia) according to charts from Bunak, the hair is little darker than middle Sweden though the eyes are exceptionally darker."
Middle Sweden is the fairiest region of the country. Central and Southern Russia have the same frequency of blondism (+/- 1%). Northern Russia is significantly blonder.
Here's the translation:
"... in Central Russia according to tables by Bunak ad acta, the hair is very little darker than Central Sweden, although the eyes are much darker"
So in a nutshell, the Russians are considerably darker. Also, consider this was before the race-mixing agenda of Russo-Soviet.
This is the data from 40s, so it is AFTER the alleged race-mixing in Russia and well BEFORE Swedes become intermixed with Muds.
As for Russians being considerably darker, that's not true. Russians appear to be at least as blond as Swedes, and as for the eye color, the difference which made Lundman to make his observation is 50% vs 95% (light eyes).
However, Lundman made a mistake here, as unlike with the hair pigmentation, the Soviet anthropology used its own system for eye colors. While Swedish and other Western anthropologists considered as "light" all color shades brighter than light brown, including yellow, Russian anthropologists classified as "light" only pure light eyes.and the yellow color was classified as dark. So Swedish 95% include light mixed and yellow eyes, while Russian 50% stand only for pure light colors.
Swedes may indeed be a bit lighter eyed. For example, Russians have 5.7% of brown eyes, while Swedes have 5%.
I'll be looking forward to your first visit to Sweden to see us with your own eyes for the first time.
I'm not specifically interested to see people practising zoophilia, homosexualism and promiscuity.
Now, topic. Gas. Ukraine. Ring any bells?
Yeah, more and more countries decide to tell the truth and put the blame on Ukraine. Count in Moldova, Slovakia and Bulgaria. And Poland is trying to warm its hands on the Ukrainian fire, suggesting to Russia to build alternative gas pipelines throu its territory :thumb001:
TheGreatest
01-15-2009, 11:07 AM
Russians are olive complexioned, beady eye, brown eye, jet black hair and have flat faces... Mongols
During the last few years, it appears Russia has been taking advantage of its new found economic status - ie, huge natural gas and oil resources. But Russia needs to be reliable if it wants to be taken seriously and now that Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are looking westwards for the growth of their economies, it'll only be a matter of time before the west starts looking elsewhere.
This West-Russia antagonism is not beneficial to anyone. I say let the West partner with Russia, and stop being so suspicious about them. Who do we prefer as energy suppliers -- Arabs or Russians? I'll take the Russians. All they want is to be respected as fellow Europeans, and most of the negative stuff you read in the Western press about Russia is deliberate smear.
I have done myself the favour and read Vladimir Putin's speeches on the Kremlin website. Actually, Mr Putin seems to value European culture and brotherhood more than our current corrupt Western leaders.
Russians are olive complexioned, beady eye, brown eye, jet black hair and have flat faces... Mongols
Now the onus is on you to back up this claim, which I consider ludicrous.
During the last few years, it appears Russia has been taking advantage of its new found economic status - ie, huge natural gas and oil resources. But Russia needs to be reliable if it wants to be taken seriously and now that Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are looking westwards for the growth of their economies, it'll only be a matter of time before the west starts looking elsewhere.
The West would have already used other sources of natural gas and oil, the problem is that there is not any.
Central Asia is blocked from Europe by Russia and... Iran :D so there is no way the Central Asian natural gas make it to Europe.
Besides, Russia controls all of Central Asian gas reserves.
Another thing is that they're not enough to substitute the Russian natural gas on the European market.
The demand is rising on 5% each year...
TheGreatest
01-15-2009, 11:11 AM
This West-Russia antagonism is not beneficial to anyone. I say let the West partner with Russia, and stop being so suspicious about them. Who do we prefer as energy suppliers -- Arabs or Russians? I'll take the Russians. All they want is to be respected as fellow Europeans, and most of the negative stuff you read in the Western press about Russia is deliverate smear.
I have done myself the favour and read Vladimir Putin's speeches on the Kremlin website. Actually, Mr Putin seems to value European culture and brotherhood more than our current corrupt Western leaders.
Respect is not a one way street. No one is going to give the Russians respect when they conspire and claim that groups such as the Ukrainians are really just Russians in denial
Russians are olive complexioned, beady eye, brown eye, jet black hair and have flat faces... Mongols
That's the exact anthropological description of Rusins.
Treffie
01-15-2009, 11:13 AM
This West-Russia antagonism is not beneficial to anyone. I say let the West partner with Russia, and stop being so suspicious about them. Who do we prefer as energy suppliers -- Arabs or Russians? I'll take the Russians. All they want is to be respected as fellow Europeans, and most of the negative stuff you read in the Western press about Russia is deliverate smear.
I have done myself the favour and read Vladimir Putin's speeches on the Kremlin website. Actually, Mr Putin seems to value European culture and brotherhood more than our current corrupt Western leaders.
A smear or not, I'm open minded. Most Europeans governments now view Russia with suspicion, especially the UK after the Litvinienko case. They don't care where they get their supplies from so long as it's from a reliable source. Eastern Europe has had their fingers burned - I'm sure that they don't want this to happen again.
Treffie
01-15-2009, 11:17 AM
Central Asia is blocked from Europe by Russia and... Iran :D so there is no way the Central Asian natural gas make it to Europe.
No it isn't - Azerbaijan looks directly west from Turkmenistan, thus avoiding Russia and Iran.
http://www.stanford.edu/group/parasites/ParaSites2006/Dioctophyme_renale/Images/caspian%20sea%20region%20map.gif
TheGreatest
01-15-2009, 11:22 AM
No it isn't - Azerbaijan looks directly west from Turkmenistan, thus avoiding Russia and Iran.
Sveyn they have already proposed a pipeline like that and it was rejected for some reason. No doubt it was because it's more expensive than building on the existing infrastructure in Russia.
Because my understanding is that will require building a bridge and building pipelines through some of the most mountainous terrain in the world
A smear or not, I'm open minded. Most Europeans governments now view Russia with suspicion, especially the UK after the Litvinienko case. They don't care where they get their supplies from so long as it's from a reliable source. Eastern Europe has had their fingers burned - I'm sure that they don't want this to happen again.
I hear you, although this runs deeper and has a more complex history. For example, the Litvinenko case. Now that is a topic worth discussing on its own. There would never have been a Litvinenko case, had Britain not sheltered Judeo-Russian oligarch criminals like Berezovsky ...
Treffie
01-15-2009, 11:31 AM
Sveyn they have already proposed a pipeline like that and it was rejected for some reason. No doubt it was because it's more expensive than building on the existing infrastructure in Russia.
Because my understanding is that will require building a bridge and building pipelines through some of the most mountainous terrain in the world
There are quite a few already - the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline (crude oil)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan_pipeline
The Trans-Caspian oil pipeline is a proposed pipeline, planned to bypass Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Caspian_Oil_Pipeline
But don't forget that LNG is slowly replacing Natural Gas in the UK - how many other countries could follow suit?
I hear you, although this runs deeper and has a more complex history. For example, the Litvinenko case. Now that is a topic worth discussing on its own. There would never have been a Litvinenko case, had Britain not sheltered Judeo-Russian oligarch criminals like Berezovsky ...
I agree, he had money and that's why the Uk Govt took him in.
No it isn't - Azerbaijan looks directly west from Turkmenistan, thus avoiding Russia and Iran.
http://www.stanford.edu/group/parasites/ParaSites2006/Dioctophyme_renale/Images/caspian%20sea%20region%20map.gif
Yes, it is. The legal status of the Caspian Sea is not established, so construction of all underwater pipelines could begin only after the unanimous consent of all Caspian states, including Russia and Iran.
Sorry :)
Treffie
01-15-2009, 11:46 AM
Yes, it is. The legal status of the Caspian Sea is not established, so construction of all underwater pipelines could begin only after the unanimous consent of all Caspian states, including Russia and Iran.
Sorry :)
Why should I be sorry? Russia and Iran may protest about the building of pipelines but really there is nothing than can be done. An exclusive economic zone extends for 200 nautical miles beyond the baselines of the territorial sea, thus it includes the territorial sea and its contiguous zone.
Azerbaijan's coastline on the Caspian is approx 800kms long, either way, Iran and Russia would not be able to claim this justifiably.
Why should I be sorry? Russia and Iran may protest about the building of pipelines
Protest? LOL Azeri's balls are in Russia's hand ;)
but really there is nothing than can be done. An exclusive economic zone extends for 200 nautical miles beyond the baselines of the territorial sea, thus it includes the territorial sea and its contiguous zone.
It does not apply to the Caspian Sea.
Azerbaijan's coastline on the Caspian is approx 800kms long, either way, Iran and Russia would not be able to claim this justifiably.
Why do you think all Central Asian states have sold all their natural gas to Gazprom? They know the pipeline is just not possible, both legally and politically.
Treffie
01-15-2009, 12:11 PM
^I'm being objective, I don't have an agenda against Russia, but I'm aware of international politics and the means by which some governments will go to achieve what they want. Time will tell.
They're "building" the Trans-Caspian pipeline since mid 90s. Another 15 years will tell :)
How can Georgia invade Georgia? South Ossetia is a part of Georgia, they have not crossed another country's borders.
They HAVE crossed the border, the border which was established and defended by Russian peacekeepers on the basis of a multilateral international treaty signed and ratified, among others, by Georgia.
Russians were presented in South Ossetia for years in accordance with international law and Georgia's consent, which was not revoked till after the US backed Saakashvili regime was crushed by the 58th army.
Russia had right and duty to defend South Ossetia against murderous Georgians and deploy additional forces by transferring them from Russia if need be. Russia has not overstepped the limits established by international law.
So, what will you say, genious? :)
Æmeric
01-16-2009, 01:19 AM
Why should I be sorry? Russia and Iran may protest about the building of pipelines but really there is nothing than can be done. An exclusive economic zone extends for 200 nautical miles beyond the baselines of the territorial sea, thus it includes the territorial sea and its contiguous zone.
Azerbaijan's coastline on the Caspian is approx 800kms long, either way, Iran and Russia would not be able to claim this justifiably.
I don't know that this would apply to the Caspian Sea. Wouldn't it's legal status be more akin to that of the North American Great Lakes? Or the Great Salt Lake of Utah? It is not like an actually sea, e.g the Mediterranean or the Black Sea.
Edit: I noticed the vote was tied so I voted to blame Russia.;)
GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS
01-16-2009, 07:55 AM
They HAVE crossed the border, the border which was established and defended by Russian peacekeepers on the basis of a multilateral international treaty signed and ratified, among others, by Georgia.
So Georgia has crossed the border into Russia? Has the Georgian army left the country of Georgia? And has the Russian army crossed the border to Georgia? Because these two countries are the only ones involved here.
So, what will you say, genious? :)
Again with the personal attacks! Are you seriously resorting to personal attacks and flaming of my country when Ukrainian pipelines is the topic? :confused:
This issues runs alot deeper than anyone can understand. So far we've discussed zoophilia and Swedish 200 year old wars which for some reason had a huge impact on Russian gas in the 21st century... :rolleyes:
So Georgia has crossed the border into Russia?
No.
Has the Georgian army left the country of Georgia?
No.
And has the Russian army crossed the border to Georgia?
No.
Because these two countries are the only ones involved here.
No.
You still fail to understand that it was a peacekeeping operation, conducted by Russia in full accordance with international law and multilateral treaties signed and ratified by Georgia.
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