ANE phenotype

[War Chef]

For you noobs, ANE = Ancestral North Eurasian

Voyo Goric, Bosniak actor:

http://i.imgur.com/SPYw1BX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/STbWKN5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GXXaSms.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I3X2yKs.jpg

[John Son of David]

Interestingly enough, Scots and Estonians are the two groups in Europe with highest ANE.

Not Russians or any other East Slavs. Scots and Estonians. Now how the hell does that happen?

Anyway, I always knew I felt a strong connection with the American Indians.....

[War Chef]

Interestingly enough, Scots and Estonians are the two groups in Europe with highest ANE.

Not Russians or any other East Slavs. Scots and Estonians. Now how the hell does that happen?

Anyway, I always knew I felt a strong connection with the American Indians.....

Lightning fast reply. I can tell the ANE is strong with this one.

My guess is rather than having to do with Indo-Europeans, ANE were actually the original pre-Ice age Europeans, than WHG came from the south and replaced most of them......and then finally of course the farmers came in droves.

[Äijä]

Interestingly enough, Scots and Estonians are the two groups in Europe with highest ANE.

Not Russians or any other East Slavs. Scots and Estonians. Now how the hell does that happen?

Anyway, I always knew I felt a strong connection with the American Indians.....

East Slavs where not that East 1000 years ago.

[John Son of David]

East Slavs where not that East 1000 years ago.

Estonians are Finnic, correct? Is the Finnish ANE high as well?

[Äijä]

Estonians are Finnic, correct? Is the Finnish ANE high as well?

Yes, some have very high numbers.
Estonians are Baltic Finnic.

Others are Finns, Karelians, Vepsians, Izhorians, Livs and Votes, the bolded ones are basically extinct or dying peoples.

[War Chef]

The kid in my avatar has an ANE score of 18.46%

[Rugevit]

Interestingly enough, Scots and Estonians are the two groups in Europe with highest ANE.

Not Russians or any other East Slavs. Scots and Estonians. Now how the hell does that happen?

Anyway, I always knew I felt a strong connection with the American Indians.....

ANE is higher in Hungarian sample than in Scottish. See Full modelling average fit : http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2240/q1is.png
Since many samples are small there will be a variation from sample to sample and for true population average.

[John Son of David]

ANE is higher in Hungarian sample than in Scottish. See Full modelling average fit : http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2240/q1is.png
Since many samples are small there will be a variation from sample to sample and for true population average.

Doesnt change the fact that for some reason, Scots are a complete anomaly in Western Europe as far as ANE

[Insuperable]

Voyo Gorich is a Serb.

[John Son of David]

Yes, some have very high numbers.
Estonians are Baltic Finnic.

Others are Finns, Karelians, Vepsians, Izhorians, Livs and Votes, the bolded ones are basically extinct or dying peoples.

Livs as in, Livonians? I would think that many of the Livonians were absorbed into Estonia/Latvia historically, at least going by the borders of the medieval state called Livonia

can't say I've heard of the others, are they all located in the Baltic region?

[Pjeter Pan]

Population
ANE 11.77%
ASE 1.39%
WHG-UHG 44.59%
East_Eurasian -
West_African -
East_African -
ENF 42.26%

[Rugevit]

Estonians are Finnic, correct? Is the Finnish ANE high as well?

Finns, Saami, Russians from Kargopol and some peoples Volga-Ural have recent far eastern admixture in their gene pools detected as ancient north Eurasian (ANE).



We observe that Finns, Mordovians, Russians from Kagopol, Chuvash, and Saami from northeastern Europe do not fit our model (SI12; Extended Data Table 3). To better understand this, for each West Eurasian population in turn we plotted f4(X, Bedouin2; Han, Mbuti) against f4(X, Bedouin2; MA1, Mbuti), using statistics that measure the degree of a European population’s allele sharing with Han Chinese or MA1 (Extended Data Fig. 7). Europeans fall along a line of slope >1 in the plot of these two statistics. However, northeastern Europeans fall away from this line in the direction of Han. This is consistent with Siberian gene flow into some northeastern Europeans after the initial ANE admixture, and may be related to the fact that Y-chromosome haplogroup N is shared between Siberian and northeastern Europeans but not with western Europeans. There may in fact be multiple layers of Siberian gene flow into northeastern Europe after the initial ANE gene flow.
http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2013/12/23/001552.full.pdf

[Rugevit]

Doesnt change the fact that for some reason, Scots are a complete anomaly in Western Europe as far as ANE

Interesting, but it maybe due to sample to sample variation. In other words higher proportion in this particular sample of Scotts occurred due to chance alone.

[Gauthier]

My score: ANE 20.17%

Which is nothing compared to what these indios from south america score:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/xmLf78.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/f0xmLf78j)

Karitiana_HGDP00998

ANE 41.56%
ASE 0.41%
WHG-UHG 0%
East_Eurasian 58.01%
West_African 0%
East_African 0.01%
ENF 0%

[War Chef]

My score: ANE 20.17%

Which is nothing compared to what these indios from south america score:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/xmLf78.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/f0xmLf78j)

Karitiana_HGDP00998

ANE 41.56%
ASE 0.41%
WHG-UHG 0%
East_Eurasian 58.01%
West_African 0%
East_African 0.01%
ENF 0%

Interesting. So these Karitiana are the closest phenotype to ANE? I imagined more CM robust faced looking, archaic people.

[John Son of David]

How much do Scots score on average?

17%, I believe is what I read.

[Guapo]

17%, I believe is what I read.

Wow that's high?

[Abraxas]

Interesting. So these Karitiana are the closest phenotype to ANE? I imagined more CM robust faced looking, archaic people.

Extract the huge percentage of East Eurasian admixture (which likely gives the swarthy yellow skin) and there you have it.

I think the ANE looked more or less like this, without the overt paleo-Siberian manifesting itself.
http://edwardcurtisphotographer.com/images/Curtis%20images/Lawyer%20-%20Nez%20Perce-WEB.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41C8VWYY1TL.jpg

http://www.benbuysbooks.com/shop_image/product/BKPC0002.jpg

Edward Curtis' pictures show a lot of American Indians with traits that appear to be shared with many Northern and Eastern Europeans.

[John Son of David]

I dunno though, the same thing said that English were like 12%, so I'm guessing that would be somewhat high too. It may be that they overestimated it by a lot.

[Rugevit]

Original Indo-Europeans may not have looked like modern Europeans at all. They formed a ruling class spreading their language in many areas from northern India to Europe, the same way as Turkic did between Yakutia (eastern Siberia) and Anatolia (western Asia) 2,000 years later. Or Roman military elite spread their language to France, Iberia and Romania.

[Gauthier]

Interesting. So these Karitiana are the closest phenotype to ANE? I imagined more CM robust faced looking, archaic people.

They certainly score high but they also have a large chunk of ''East_Eurasian'' which gives them more of a mongoloid phenotype.

[Insuperable]

How much do Scots score on average?

Greek samples in link Armstrong provided have unusually high ANE. Fully modeled average 16.1%. If Scots are anomaly in Western Europe you are in Southern Europe.

[John Son of David]

Extract the huge percentage of East Eurasian admixture (which likely gives the swarthy yellow skin) and there you have it.

I think the ANE looked more or less like this, without the overt paleo-Siberian manifesting itself.




Edward Curtis' pictures show a lot of American Indians with traits that appear to be shared with many Northern and Eastern Europeans.

A certain, instantly recognizable type of look I think, that can be found in certain parts of the world.

http://indulgy.ccio.co/h8/7K/p8/276689970826417850bepRewulc.jpg

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/uploads/Crow-Indian-Warrior.jpg

[War Chef]

Original Indo-Europeans may not have looked like modern Europeans at all. They formed a ruling class spreading their language in many areas from northern India to Europe, the same way as Turkic did between Yakutia (eastern Siberia) and Anatolia (western Asia) 2,000 years later. Or Roman military elite spread their language to France, Iberia and Romania.

Almost all Andronovo Skulls were extremely square faced though. They looked like Balto-CM's in some ways.

[Roy]

Interesting. So these Karitiana are the closest phenotype to ANE? I imagined more CM robust faced looking, archaic people.

Genotype =/= phenotype + they're modern Natives after many thousands of years of seperation so ... they're closer maybe only little bit than we could be.

[KawaiiKawaii]

So, modern Europeans are basically biracials? Fun :D

[Amud]

Kennewick Man?

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/image/Kennewick-Man.jpg?itok=wYLonr6E

[Insuperable]

So, modern Europeans are basically biracials? Fun :D

Just like the rest of the world, perhaps.

[Gauthier]

Extract the huge percentage of East Eurasian admixture (which likely gives the swarthy yellow skin) and there you have it.

I think the ANE looked more or less like this, without the overt paleo-Siberian manifesting itself.


Edward Curtis' pictures show a lot of American Indians with traits that appear to be shared with many Northern and Eastern Europeans.

North american natives are probably the closest to the ANE. They show pseudo caucasoid traits and have greater height.

Apaches:

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7638/9x5k.jpg
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2893/9piy.jpg
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4839/bqum.jpg (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/bqum.jpg/)
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7909/d91p.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/d91p.jpg/)
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9333/m8ts.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/m8ts.jpg/)
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3180/yb47.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/yb47.jpg/)
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1388/jp8s.jpg (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/jp8s.jpg/)
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5649/2a7d.jpg (http://img703.imageshack.us/i/2a7d.jpg/)
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1151/5drx.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/5drx.jpg/)
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5277/p7c6.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/p7c6.jpg/)
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1071/5tcw.jpg (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/5tcw.jpg/)
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5740/cys3.jpg (http://img854.imageshack.us/i/cys3.jpg/)
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4059/exp8.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/exp8.jpg/)
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2784/nc60.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/nc60.jpg/)
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1327/x2fa.jpg (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/x2fa.jpg/)

[John Son of David]

Greek samples in link Armstrong provided have unusually high ANE. Fully modeled 16.1%. If Scots are anomaly in Western Europe you are in Southern Europe.

What are the Scots according to that chart? I don't understand how to get it "fully modeled".

[John Son of David]

Good pictures Bravado.

[Abraxas]

Genotype =/= phenotype + they're modern Natives after many thousands of years of seperation so ... they're closer maybe only little bit than we could be.

That's because extreme geographical divergence. Karitana are near the equator whereas both ANE (that is present in Europeans) and paleo-Siberians were peoples that lived in near-polar regions. Of course they suffered quite a few drastic changes such as infantilization and gracilization. But their overall core still should look Paleo-Siberian + ANE.

Let's assume that

ANE + http://s27.postimg.org/tocjdorhf/Tbaikal.jpg = Amerindians.

ANE + http://prehist.org/images/cache/126_799_889.jpeg = Modern North and Eastern Europeans.

[KawaiiKawaii]

Just like the rest of the world, perhaps.

Well, maybe except the pygmies.

I was wondering, are there pure, unmodified ethnicities of each component? Like pure farmers, pure hunter-gatherers, pure north asians? Or all we way to mixed and there is no such thing anymore?

[Insuperable]

What are the Scots according to that chart? I don't understand how to get it "fully modeled".

When fully modeled (indiviual fit) Scots score 18.2% for ANE.

When fully modeled (average fit) ANE range for Scots is 14.9%-20.1% with a mean value of 17.1%.

I meant to write fully modeled for average fit. Sorry.

[John Son of David]

When fully modeled (indiviual fit) Scots score 18.2% for ANE.

When fully modeled (average fit) ANE range for Scots is 14.9%-20.1% with a mean value of 17.1%.

Ok, so Greeks at 16.1, Scots 18.2.... What do you think would be the average for Europe? Just an estimate, I'm not asking you to calculate all that shit lol.

[KawaiiKawaii]

Nevermind

[Gauthier]

Ok, so Greeks at 16.1, Scots 18.2.... What do you think would be the average for Europe? Just an estimate, I'm not asking you to calculate all that shit lol.

Which Europeans have the lowest ANE?

[Insuperable]

Ok, so Greeks at 16.1, Scots 18.2.... What do you think would be the average for Europe? Just an estimate, I'm not asking you to calculate all that shit lol.

Hard to say. Maybe 14%.

[KawaiiKawaii]

Ok, so Greeks at 16.1, Scots 18.2.... What do you think would be the average for Europe? Just an estimate, I'm not asking you to calculate all that shit lol.


Hard to say. Maybe 14%.

But isn't 16 average for Greeks way too high? How does it fit with your 14%? Which southerner group should have less?

[Insuperable]

Which Europeans have the lowest ANE?

Sardinians, I think. To add further they are the only Europeans (maybe with Basques, not sure) who can also fit two component models (those without ANE), but don't quote me on that.

[John Son of David]

Which Europeans have the lowest ANE?

It has to be Sardinians. From what I have read they are, overwhelmingly, Neolithic. Something like 80%.

[War Chef]

Sardinians, I think. To add further they are the only Europeans (maybe with Basques, not sure) who can also fit two component models (those without ANE), but don't quote me on that.

Interestingly though, Sardinians have the most Mesolithic Y-dna haplogroup I2! Just goes to show Haplogroups don't mean much.

Anyway I think I found another ANE?

http://i61.tinypic.com/2ep23p0.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/2nhgd1d.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/vyazw6.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/2cibeq1.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/255jeis.jpg

[John Son of David]

Interestingly though, Sardinians have the most Mesolithic Y-dna haplogroup I2! Just goes to show Haplogroups don't mean much.

Anyway I think I found another ANE?

What's our criteria? If you ask me, its this fella right here:

http://www.klotzgallery.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/CURTIS_KutenaiType_W.jpg

[Gauthier]

Interestingly though, Sardinians have the most Mesolithic Y-dna haplogroup I2! Just goes to show Haplogroups don't mean much.

Anyway I think I found another ANE?



These folks remind me of a Norwegian user who used to post here with the nickname of Pallantides. They look so much alike.

[Guapo]

Interestingly though, Sardinians have the most Mesolithic Y-dna haplogroup I2! Just goes to show Haplogroups don't mean much.


It's 37% of the population. The haplogroup you mean is of the the I2a1 subtype (I-M26), which is almost unique to the island, though it takes origin in the Pyrenees region.

[Insuperable]

But isn't 16 average for Greeks way too high? How does it fit with your 14%? Which southerner group should have less?

Well duh isn't that why I mentioned them? Strange that it is that high. French and English on average have about 14% and I am assuming Germans are near that. Spanish have on average about 12%. Italians on average even less. On the other hand Eastern European population have higher averages than English or French. To come out with the exact European average I would need to take both average results of each ethnicity and respective population size of each ethnicity in consideration and I am not mad to calculate that. I said 14% just like that. So, yeah, Greeks are an anomaly in Southern Europe when it comes to ANE if these results can be trusted.

[War Chef]

It's 37% of the population. The haplogroup you mean is of the the I2a1 subtype (I-M26), which is almost unique to the island, though it takes origin in the Pyrenees region.

Yes they have developed their own sub-clade, but still it's ancestral to the Luxembourg and Swedish Mesolithic I2's no?

[Guapo]

Yes they have developed their own sub-clade, but still it's ancestral to the Luxembourg and Swedish Mesolithic I2's no?

Sure but it doesnt mean that it's Mesolithic. I1 emerged 4500 years ago so it can be considered Neolithic if we go by that. The days of supposing an I2-M26 origin in Sardinia are over, it's clearly a founder effect there from Iberia.

[John Son of David]

Reptile, have you seen this thread xD

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?136516-The-Real-Native-Europeans-and-the-Amerindian-Connexion

[Raven_]

North american natives are probably the closest to the ANE. They show pseudo caucasoid traits and have greater height.


North Americans are not the ones who carry the most ANE. See this table (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQaERNSkN5TGVIWm8/edit).

[Insuperable]

I don't know where this confusion associating Cromagnids or Hunter-Gatherers with ANE comes from. I don't know why people associate ANE input with elevated levels of HG's ancestry too. Of course if you want to associate it with Motala like individuals, that is ok then, I guess. Original Hunter-Gatherers (Western European Hunther Gutherer) like La Brana(?) have nothing to do with ANE admixture in Europeans. For a reason calculators provides us with WHG, ANE and EEF estimates separately, duuuuuuuuh. It somehow started as joke trolling southern Europeans most likely. :laugh:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2d5or7.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/2e5ocd2.jpg

It is quite evident according to data in spoiler above that ANE ancestry in Europeans has nothing to do with original Hunter-Gatherers. It is also evident that Hunter-Gatherers were genetically very distanced population from ANE like individuals. Farmers and Hunter-Gatherers were more closely related than Hunter-Gatherers and ANE like individuals were. Now, what did I meant to say with 'original' Hunter-Gatherers. Motala Hunther-Gatherer was more ANE shifted than La Brana individual, but still more similar to La Brana than anyone else of course. It seems that there was a third intrusion in Europe - Ancient North Eurasians.

The findings suggest that the arrival of modern humans into Europe more than 40,000 years ago was followed by an influx of farmers some 8,000 years ago, with a third wave of migrants coming from north Eurasia perhaps 5,000 years ago. Others from the same population of north Eurasians took off towards the Americas and gave rise to Native Americans. (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/18/ancient-ancestors-europeans-dna-study)

First map in spoiler is not very good to show it, but it is written that Mal'ta boy is genetically closer to La Brana than to East Eurasians. Since Amerindians (not sure if all) can be seen as ANE+East Eurasians claimed Western Eurasians ancestry in Amerindians most probably comes from ANE individuals, one third as claimed.So, yes, Mal'ta boy like population is an ancestreal source population for many groups in Asia.




That's because extreme geographical divergence. Karitana are near the equator whereas both ANE that is present in Europeans) and paleo-Siberians were peoples that lived in near-polar regions. Of course they suffered quite a few drastic changes such as infantilization and gracilization. But their overall core still should look Paleo-
Siberian + ANE.
Let's assume that
ANE + = Amerindians.
ANE +

That is correct except that you have to add Hunter-Gatherers when modelling Europeans.


Could explain the frequent CM element in many greeks. Paleobalkanites/balkan cm used to be quite common up to the geometric era in greece but afterwards got reduced through the process of alpinization which was aided by the doric invasion. (who carried a alpino-dinaroid trend into greece) (http://puu.sh/c3Za9.png)

Cromagnid yes, if it came from a bit ANE altered Hunther-Gatherers.


Interestingly though, Sardinians have the most Mesolithic Y-dna haplogroup I2! Just goes to show Haplogroups don't mean much

Sardinians do have a lot of Hunter-Gatherer ancestry. Nothing strange for them to have that much I2. Just as I have written above you quoted me because you also associate HG ancestry with elevated ANE and that is not always so. Pure Hunter-Gatherers have nothing to do with ANE ancestry in Europeans.

[War Chef]

Sardinians do have a lot of Hunter-Gatherer ancestry. Nothing strange for them to have that much I2.

Sardinians get a north_European score similar to Maltese or Basques. There was some migration of mainland Europeans (mostly Spanish) to Sardinia in the last 1,000 years which gave them a higher HG score but remove that and Sardinians are the best proxy for Neolithic farmers. The fact they have ancient I2 y-dna means the handful of Hunter-Gatherer males who lived on the island were popular - I'm not surprised because Sardinians are the shortest people in Europe + looking exotic to the locals would get you better reproductive success. As someone said earlier, yes it's a founder effect.... maybe you're bothered by it because I2 in the Balkans could have a similar story.



Just as I have written above you quoted me because you also associate HG ancestry with elevated ANE and that is not always so. Pure Hunter-Gatherers have nothing to do with ANE ancestry in Europeans.

Somewhat disagree. The most northern people are getting the highest ANE scores - coincidence? I think not.
It should be mentioned that those with East-Asian ancestry (like Finns) are getting elevated ANE because their East_Asian is being translated into ANE. Same for me, I get 18.5% but without my 3% East-Asian I would be like 17.00% ANE...... which is still pretty damn high.

[Albannach]

17%, I believe is what I read.

I'm a Scot and I'm 17.36% ANE

[Insuperable]

Sardinians get a north_European score similar to Maltese or Basques if I remember correctly. Anyway yes there was some migration of mainland Europeans (mostly Spanish) to Sardinia in the last 1,000 years which gave them a higher HG score but remove that and Sardinians are the best proxy for Neolithic farmers. The fact they have ancient I2 y-dna means the handful of Hunter-Gatherer males who lived on the island were popular - I'm not surprised because Sardinians are the shortest people in Europe. As someone said earlier, yes it's a founder effect.... maybe you're bothered by it because I2 in the Balkans could have a similar story.

First of all I am just telling you how it is. I lost count how many times I have written that high frequency of I2 on Balkans has to do with founder effect and how Mesolithic ancestry is highest in Northern Europe or maybe you forgot about my threads where I troll Balkanites including my own ethnicity. There is nothing for me to hyde, everything can be seen. On ANE K7 Sardinians are 50% WHG though this calc is made more to see ANE score. Early European farmers were already WHG in a great deal. According to Eurogenes they are already ~25% Baltic+Atlantic and West Med can be perhaps seen as a unique mix of WHG-UHG and Early Farmers.


Somewhat disagree. The most northern people are getting the highest ANE scores - coincidence? I think not.

Well, who cares with what you disagree with and with what you don't disagree. I noticed this falsely promoted WHG-ANE thing is prominent among certain 'easterners' so please don't tell me that I am the one who is bothered. Everything is written in my post and ANE won't make you any whiter. ;) You have maps and data from studies in my post as well as news article with quotes from the very authors. Like it is implied some Hunter-Gatherers picked up ANE ancestry. It is very easy to understand, but I know it could be a problem for you to accept some things.:)

You know I may be wrong. I don't really put effort in understanding this, but that is how it is if you ask me based on given data.

[War Chef]

Well, who cares with what you disagree with and with what you don't disagree.

I care and that's all that matters. Actually I don't even know why you're coming at me like this right now, you seem to be in a aggravated mood.



I noticed this falsely promoted WHG-ANE thing is prominent among certain 'easterners' so please don't tell me that I am the one who is bothered.


I didn't even mention WHG-ANE connection until you brought it up! You're being a rabid Ustasha here, now calm yourself before you spoil your entire week.


everything is written in my post and ANE won't make you any whiter. ;)


I don't care, I'm metrically more progressive and more robust than you. Your blond hairs won't save you from anything.
If you are hating because of my avatar, keep in mind it was taken in late August, after months of playing outside in the sun all summer.
I don't feel the need for Nihilist-style lighting 24/7, in fact I like to capture moments when I'm at my darkest - I'm 100% free from any inferiority complex.... and I pity you somewhat.



You have maps and data from studies in my post as well as news article with quotes from the very authors. Like it is implied some Hunter-Gatherers picked up ANE ancestry. It is very easy to understand, but I know it could be a problem for you to accept some things.:)


lol I have no problem if I accept it or not. It's a win-win scenario for me because at the end of the day I have a ANE score higher than yours, or higher than 90% of the Scandinavians you put on a pedestal.... sell-out. :)

Ancestral_North_Eurasian > entire world

[StormBringer]

Voyo Gorich is a Serb.

I know a dude who's got same last name (the real one, not the stage name) and is from same town, should ask him if they're related.

"An article was published about him in newspapers, titled "Colossus with a gentle heart", accounting the tale about how he'd disarmed a would be rapist, and stuck the gun into his ass."
:rofl_002:
Hastily translated from Wikipedia article in Serbian.

[Insuperable]

I care and that's all that matters. Actually I don't even know why you're coming at me like this right now, you seem to be in a aggravated mood.

I know you care. And wow you saw that I am aggravated over you PC. I thought the same for you.


I didn't even mention WHG-ANE connection until you brought it up just an hour ago.

Buahahahahahah. Don't lie, I know you are obsessed with it.


I don't care, I'm metrically more progressive and more robust than you. Your blond hairs won't save you from anything.

If it makes you feel good, yes, you are more progressive. :) I am not blond.


lol I have no problem if I accept it or not. It's a win-win scenario for me because at the end of the day I have a ANE score higher than yours, or higher than 90% of the Scandinavians you put on a pedestal.... sell-out. :)

Hahahah. Dude, you are destroying your own words written in the same post. Who cares about ANE anyway!? 2-3% up or down. HG is what matters and I am afraid you can't go there vs Scandinavians.

[Insuperable]

I know a dude who's got same last name (the real one, not the stage name) and is from same town, should ask him if they're related.

"An article was published about him in newspapers, titled "Colossus with a gentle heart", accounting the tale about how he'd disarmed a would be rapist, and stuck the gun into his ass."
:rofl_002:
Hastily translated from Wikipedia article in Serbian.

What surname? Gorich was born Vojislav Govedarica.

[StormBringer]

Yes, Govedarica.

[War Chef]

Buahahahahahah. Don't lie, I know you are obsessed with it.


Provide quotes where I even mentioned a ANE-WHG relation before you brought it up....or shut the fuck up. :)



If it makes you feel good, yes, you are more progressive.


Thank you. :)



Hahahah. Dude, you are destroying your own words written in the same post. Who cares about ANE anyway? 2-3% up or down. HG is what matters and I am afraid you can't go there vs Scandinavians.

Meh, I have a decent chunk of WHG, too. Anyway I appreciate my ENF too :coffee:
But my superior ANE is my pride and joy.

[Raven_]

I don't know where this confusion associating Cromagnids or Hunter-Gatherers with ANE comes from. I don't know why people associate ANE input with elevated levels of HG's ancestry too. Of course if you want to associate it with Motala like individuals, that is ok then, I guess. Original Hunter-Gatherers (Western European Hunther Gutherer) like La Brana(?) have nothing to do with ANE admixture in Europeans. For a reason calculators provides us with WHG, ANE and EEF estimates separately, duuuuuuuuh. It somehow started as joke trolling southern Europeans most likely. :laugh:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2d5or7.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/2e5ocd2.jpg

It is quite evident according to data in spoiler above that ANE ancestry in Europeans has nothing to do with original Hunter-Gatherers. It is also evident that Hunter-Gatherers were genetically very distanced population from ANE like individuals. Farmers and Hunter-Gatherers were more closely related than Hunter-Gatherers and ANE like individuals were. Now, what did I meant to say with 'original' Hunter-Gatherers. Motala Hunther-Gatherer was more ANE shifted than La Brana individual, but still more similar to La Brana than anyone else of course. It seems that there was a third intrusion in Europe - Ancient North Eurasians.

The findings suggest that the arrival of modern humans into Europe more than 40,000 years ago was followed by an influx of farmers some 8,000 years ago, with a third wave of migrants coming from north Eurasia perhaps 5,000 years ago. Others from the same population of north Eurasians took off towards the Americas and gave rise to Native Americans. (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/18/ancient-ancestors-europeans-dna-study)

First map in spoiler is not very good to show it, but it is written that Mal'ta boy is genetically closer to La Brana than to East Eurasians. Since Amerindians (not sure if all) can be seen as ANE+East Eurasians claimed Western Eurasians ancestry in Amerindians most probably comes from ANE individuals, one third as claimed.So, yes, Mal'ta boy like population is an ancestreal source population for many groups in Asia.





That is correct except that you have to add Hunter-Gatherers when modelling Europeans.




Your given scheme clearly shows that ANE is the most related WHG, EEF is a totally separate branch.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YbYK8NzQNAY/UrihRsR5eSI/AAAAAAAAJbo/TYynaV4cO4Y/s1600/model.png

[Insuperable]

Provide quotes where I even mentioned a ANE-WHG relation or shut the fuck up. :)

I obviously can't do that since it is my speculation and speculations are my specialty hehe. What I can tell is that it is evident you associated ANE with elevated HG and came defensive about it. You opened a thread boasting about your ANE.

[Insuperable]

Lazaridis paper clearly states otherwise:

Yes, I know about that already since I posted it. La Brana is closer autosomally to Mal'ta (ANE) than EEF's are. However I read on Eurogenes(?) comments long time ago that La Brana is somewhat autosomally closer to EEF (probably because EEFs were WHG admixed if I am not mistaken). But whatever, that is not the point of the post.

[War Chef]

I obviously can't do that since it is my speculations and speculations are my specialty hehe.

Well, it turns out your speculations are wrong if you take a look at the post above you. :)




You opened a thread boasting about your ANE.

Yes and do you have a problem? Everyone in my thread is free to boast about their ANE scores as they please. Go on now and get back to work, unclogging the toilets of the Stockholm residents who you worship.

[Insuperable]

Well, it turns out your speculations are wrong if you take a look at the post above you. :)

Hahahha


Yes and do you have a problem? Everyone in my thread is free to boast about their ANE scores as they please. Go on now and get back to work, unclogging the toilets of the Stockholm residents who you worship.

No problem at all. No reason for me to do anything with toilets in Stockholm.

[Raven_]

edit.

[War Chef]

Hahahha

Hahaha what? Your statement that WHG is closer to EEF than WHG is to ANE was not in agreement with the chart you provided, you were wrong. The most honorable thing you can do now is 1. admit you were wrong 2. get on your knees and apologize to me, your ANE master..... I'm waiting.



No problem at all. No reason for me to do anything with toilets in Stockholm.

OK, so no problems. Good, that's what I like to hear! :) Move along now.

[Insuperable]

Hahaha what? Your statement that WHG is closer to EEF than WHG is to ANE was not in agreement with the chart you provided, you were wrong. The most honorable thing you can do now is get on your knees and apologize to me, your ANE master..... I'm waiting.

I think it is in agreement. Raven's very post confirmed it further, but Raven edited (deleted) her post. Would like to comment on it. WHG being closer to ANE or not has little to do with my post. It is not important. The point is that Hunter-Gatherers are one thing and ANE ancestry in Europeans is another thing.

[Gauthier]

Guys, which haplogroup/s do you guys think ANE people carried? Would P be one?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/1fuY8G.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/ex1fuY8Gj)

[Insuperable]

Guys, which haplogroup/s do you guys think ANE people carried? Would P be one?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/1fuY8G.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/ex1fuY8Gj)

ANE is so far associated with Mal'ta boy afaik. His Y-dna was R* and mtdna U5.

[Raven_]

Yes, I know about that already since I posted it. La Brana is closer autosomally to Mal'ta (ANE) than EEF's are. However I read on Eurogenes(?) comments long time ago that La Brana is somewhat autosomally closer to EEF (probably because EEFs were WHG admixed if I am not mistaken). But whatever, that is not the point of the post.

I've read your post better (I've skimmed it the first time) and it only makes sense, if you have already read Lazaridis paper. Since most readers haven't done this, it would be nice of you to be clearer.

You mentioned genetic proximity of these components several times, so I would disagree that you are not trying to make a point, however.

[Insuperable]

I've read your post better (I've skimmed it the first time) and it only makes sense, if you have already read Lazaridis paper. Since most readers haven't done this, it would be nice of you to be clearer.

I try to be, but thanks.

[Caballero]

Remove the East Asian admixture/influence from Amerindians and what you get is a Taurid-like phenotype.

http://i.imgur.com/r6HT6.jpg

Anyway, this genotype and phenotype thing is quite tricky, but it should be easier to associate general traits from a population that formed it's own cluster.