My position on abortion on crippled fetuses

[Andrei the 2nd]

Why do people defend crippled fetuses from abortion before they're born? What's the point of that? Just remove the thing and get a new child and everything will be fine as you don't have to spend a lifetime and funds taking care of something that could've been taken care of before it's birth and substituted with another healthy baby.

I'd rather have a healthy kid with no mental deficiencies and physical imperfections that can pay and support me when I'm older and will have a better and easier life than having to care for a child for eternity with Down's syndrome or whateverthat will not benefit much to me but with government support. And yes, I do have a disability but it is very minor though and I overcame it and I take care of parents.

Instead of birthing more and more crippled humans onto this planet, we need to start taking care of the ones that are already disabled instead of having more.

Quality of life > Quantity of life.

[Gustave H]

I agree.

[Andrei the 2nd]

I agree.

Thanks for concurring

[dude]

I agree too. But you can't reason with dogma.

[Andrei the 2nd]

I agree too. But you can't reason with dogma.

Well, dogmas do dominate some aspects and thoughts on life. Hopefully, we can educate the next generation on the dangers of dogmatic thinking and lead them to critical thinking. These kids would be more open minded on such topics.

[dude]

Well, dogmas do dominate some aspects and thoughts on life. Hopefully, we can educate the next generation on the dangers of dogmatic thinking and lead them to critical thinking. These kids would be more open minded on such topics.
I hope it happens like that. I let all my kids choose their religion. I am OK with them going to church with friends and experience it for themselves. I have also spoken to them about my views, but that is not something we talk about very often. Since they have been raised with an open mind, they can see religions from other perspectives. None of them has chosen to be religious.

[Andrei the 2nd]

I hope it happens like that. I let all my kids choose their religion. I am OK with them going to church with friends and experience it for themselves. I have also spoken to them about my views, but that is not something we talk about very often. Since they have been raised with an open mind, they can see religions from other perspectives. None of them has chosen to be religious.

Luckily, I'm part of a generation that is more open minded and accepting of other ideas and influences against their traditional way of thinking that older generations introduced to them. On the contrary, it might also be a bad thing because kids in my generation are being exposed to these blatant leftist liberal views like for an example they are identifying themselves not with gender labels but with absurd pseudo gender names like polytrisexual. Tumblr is a good example of those kids who were too open minded

[Also]

People who defend "crippled" fetuses against abortion is because they are against abortion in a general case. They believe fetuses have natural rights in a similar way born people do, after all they are not a different species, just humans on a initial stage.

Sure, you'd rather have a healthy son, if I had a son I'd rather him not to be autistic or not to be extremely short with psychological issues, more than that, I'd rather he does not inherit any problem from me, however small, yet I'd never want my wife to abort just because the child is gonna be autistic or have any sort of problem.

You can't predict or control how your child is gonna be, being a parent is essentially about serving a purpose, that is raising your child in the best way possible to be the best person, it is not a investment for your personal gain. The thing about life is that it is unpredictable. What if you have a perfectly healthy son but at age 12 he suffers an accident and ends up on a wheel chair with mental limitations? If you are not willing to take of your own offspring because of their limitations then you probably won't be a good parent, you don't have the right values.

People who support abortion hide the fact they are deliberately killing a human being under the shadows that "it" is too young be seen, you haven't interacted with "it" so you feel no sympathy, and if you feel no sympathy that must be a great criteria to determine how valuable that life is. Why not kill newborn babies with down syndrome? Just because we can hear them crying and see their human shape? They barely understand what is going on around them, they don't have formed ideas or a formed personality, they are less intelligent than adult pigs, just like any newborn is, and we have medical procedures to kill people with causing them pain. So we spare the parents the work to raise a crippled child and we let it clear that you are not welcome into this world if you don't fit our standards.

[dude]

That depends on the parents. We raise the kids in a family environment with family, ethical, financial and educational values, as well as respect for others. They have also grown listening to us complaining about the lazy people collecting welfare. They are also not allowed Internet freedom as some parents do. We are strict about proper behavior. Being open minded about things does not mean letting anyone just do whatever crazy shit, having no standards and allowing non-sense.

[Andrei the 2nd]

People who defend "crippled" fetuses against abortion is because they are against abortion in a general case. They believe fetuses have natural rights in a similar way born people do, after all they are not a different species, just humans on a initial stage.

Sure, you'd rather have a healthy son, if I had a son I'd rather him not to be autistic or not to be extremely short with psychological issues, more than that, I'd rather he does not inherit any problem from me, however small, yet I'd never want my wife to abort just because the child is gonna be autistic or have any sort of problem.

You can't predict or control how your child is gonna be, being a parent is essentially about serving a purpose, that is raising your child in the best way possible to be the best person, it is not a investment for your personal gain. The thing about life is that it is unpredictable. What if you have a perfectly healthy son but at age 12 he suffers an accident and ends up on a wheel chair with mental limitations? If you are not willing to take of your own offspring because of their limitations then you probably won't be a good parent, you don't have the right values.

People who support abortion hide the fact they are deliberately killing a human being under the shadows that "it" is too young be seen, you haven't interacted with "it" so you feel no sympathy, and if you feel no sympathy that must be a great criteria to determine how valuable that life is. Why not kill newborn babies with down syndrome? Just because we can hear them crying and see their human shape? They barely understand what is going on around them, they don't have formed ideas or a formed personality, they are less intelligent than adult pigs, just like any newborn is, and we have medical procedures to kill people with causing them pain. So we spare the parents the work to raise a crippled child and we let it clear that you are not welcome into this world if you don't fit our standards.

I honestly feel selfish when I typed that I needed a healthy kid to support me. It's not really about personal gain, I just included that as an example for reasons to have a new pregnancy with a healthy fetus to substitute for the corrupted one. I should've included more that you'd enjoy life more together with a child that has less to no abnormalities. Forming better and happier memories with a non crippled kid, but something could happen to that child in which would disable him/her. I agree with that, but that's why we all need to be careful and try our bests to care for ourselves to avoid beckoning cripple. I can not predict what would happen to a child, but it's better than nothing at least.

[Andrei the 2nd]

That depends on the parents. We raise the kids in a family environment with family, ethical, financial and educational values, as well as respect for others. They have also grown listening to us complaining about the lazy people collecting welfare. They are also not allowed Internet freedom as some parents do. We are strict about proper behavior. Being open minded about things does not mean letting anyone just do whatever crazy shit, having no standards and allowing non-sense.

I am accord with your statement. I'll probably do the same but with more.

[Stanley]

Not necessarily saying I disagree.. just curious about your position..

1) What is your stance on the abortion of non-crippled fetuses?

2) For a handicapped baby born to a mother who didn't undergo prenatal testing or a baby with a birth defect testing doesn't detect, would you support infanticide?

[Svipdag]

I suggest that you look up Dr. Charles Proteus Steinmetz.

[Andrei the 2nd]

Not necessarily saying I disagree.. just curious about your position..

1) What is your stance on the abortion of non-crippled fetuses?

2) For a handicapped baby born to a mother who didn't undergo prenatal testing or a baby with a birth defect testing doesn't detect, would you support infanticide?

My answers to your questions:

1) My stance on that is I believe ONLY in necessary abortion; such that is life threatening to the mother and if the child has diseases or is crippled to a bad extent, (Severe retardation, Severe Autism, and such). The Abortion to on crippled-2)ones depends the child. I don't know if incest babies from rape count as crippled, if not, then I guess they need to get terminated too.

2) I honestly don't have an arguments for that so I'm on no side of it. There could be reasons supporting it, there could reasons be against it. Let's just say there's a newborn child suffering from a bad case of Harlequin-type ichthyosis, and the mother is not wanting the child and could do little about it, then I guess the baby should be put down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlequin-type_ichthyosis

[Andrei the 2nd]

I suggest that you look up Dr. Charles Proteus Steinmetz.

Yeah right, like that would happen to all cripples.

[Dictator]

So you're telling people that you'd support your own abortion? That's something new.

[Andrei the 2nd]

So you're telling people that you'd support your own abortion? That's something new.

This is to the fetuses that are crippled to a terrible extent, while I'm on the Normal rage. Minor Asperger's shouldn't be a reason to abort someone. And the fact that I'm 202 months late to abort, so your opinion is invalid.

[Mortimer]

abortion is in most countries legal anyways, so i dont need to invent the wheel really, i mean i just follow the laws and i dont disagree really. but it is up to the parents, some parents have lots of joy and love with crippled children too. i dont know if their life is worth, i mean for themselfes. but some people are not crippled and dont see value in life and they kill themselfes, very difficult topic.

[Dictator]

This is to the fetuses that are crippled to a terrible extent, while I'm on the Normal rage. Minor Asperger's shouldn't be a reason to abort someone. And the fact that I'm 202 months late to abort, so your opinion is invalid.

You don't have Aspeger syndrome (You are able to make comments here without problem, after all). You're just have a mild case of mental retardation.

[Andrei the 2nd]

You don't have Aspeger syndrome (You are able to make comments here without problem, after all). You're just have a mild case of mental retardation.

I do have Aspergers. My psychologist pinpointed my issues with my social life to Aspergers and I do show symptoms of it in real life. You're not a psychologist or a doctor a matter of fact, so you don't know. Thanks for noticing that I'm not able of making comments without a problem, only because I'm trying my best and training myself to be on a normal level as others. And please, refrain from calling others retarded on the internet, since you've thought Medditerreaneans were only European, not also Middle Eastern, that previous post of mine.

[Dictator]

I do have Aspergers. My psychologist pinpointed my issues with my social life to Aspergers and I do show symptoms of it in real life. You're not a psychologist or a doctor a matter of fact, so you don't know. Thanks for noticing that I'm not able of making comments without a problem, only because I'm trying my best and training myself to be on a normal level as others. And please, refrain from calling others retarded on the internet, since you've thought Medditerreaneans were only European, not also Middle Eastern, that previous post of mine.

You should try a psychiatrist, not a psychologist.

[Andrei the 2nd]

You should try a psychiatrist, not a psychologist.

Ah, my bad. I meant to say psychiatrist, not psychologist. Silly me. I feel disoriented and exhausted which is leading me to make mistakes. Cheers.

[Also]

I honestly feel selfish when I typed that I needed a healthy kid to support me. It's not really about personal gain, I just included that as an example for reasons to have a new pregnancy with a healthy fetus to substitute for the corrupted one. I should've included more that you'd enjoy life more together with a child that has less to no abnormalities. Forming better and happier memories with a non crippled kid, but something could happen to that child in which would disable him/her. I agree with that, but that's why we all need to be careful and try our bests to care for ourselves to avoid beckoning cripple. I can not predict what would happen to a child, but it's better than nothing at least.

Humans are not machines that you call the assistant service if it doesn't come as you ordered to get a new one conform your wishes. People feel too entitled, you're not entitled to have a healthy son or a son with specific characteristics, if your son is born with an illness or gets sick that's what you gonna have to take.

Your whole position is based on how the parents feel when they foresee the efforts they are going to have to do, not if the fetus is worthy of being protect or not because of his nature, this is egoistic because you evaluate people according to your own interest. If someone felt the same way about having an autistic child as you do about having a crippled because his standards are different, and are not willing to put on the minimal effort on raising an autistic child, how could you argue they shouldn't abort believing what you do?

Afterall, if you think that crippled fetuses are not human, then you must believe all fetuses are not human, because it is not being crippled that makes someone non-human.

[Raven_]

Why do people defend crippled fetuses from abortion before they're born? What's the point of that? Just remove the thing and get a new child and everything will be fine as you don't have to spend a lifetime and funds taking care of something that could've been taken care of before it's birth and substituted with another healthy baby.

I'd rather have a healthy kid with no mental deficiencies and physical imperfections that can pay and support me when I'm older and will have a better and easier life than having to care for a child for eternity with Down's syndrome or whateverthat will not benefit much to me but with government support. And yes, I do have a disability but it is very minor though and I overcame it and I take care of parents.

Instead of birthing more and more crippled humans onto this planet, we need to start taking care of the ones that are already disabled instead of having more.

Quality of life > Quantity of life.

There are crippled fetuses who grow into humans that lead more productive lives than those who started off without any deficiencies.

[Andrei the 2nd]

Humans are not machines that you call the assistant service if it doesn't come as you ordered to get a new one conform your wishes. People feel too entitled, you're not entitled to have a healthy son or a son with specific characteristics, if your son is born with an illness or gets sick that's what you gonna have to take.

Your whole position is based on how the parents feel when they foresee the efforts they are going to have to do, not if the fetus is worthy of being protect or not because of his nature, this is egoistic because you evaluate people according to your own interest. If someone felt the same way about having an autistic child as you do about having a crippled because his standards are different, and are not willing to put on the minimal effort on raising an autistic child, how could you argue they shouldn't abort believing what you do?

Afterall, if you think that crippled fetuses are not human, then you must believe all fetuses are not human, because it is not being crippled that makes someone non-human.

I never insinuated that crippled fetuses were non human. It's pretty heartless of introducing into the world when they're going to suffer mostly and have a limited life. Who'd want a son who's going to live a limited life with you? It's not a selfish thing. If I did have a child with terrible defects, oh well, sucks to suck. It's my duty to care for him, time to live a long life and spending soo much funds on to him/her and living as a parent with many limits. And not just that, the kid too will suffer. I should've added how the kid would live a limited life, not only just how it wouldn't benefit the parents. This is only directed at fetuses who have TERRIBLE defects and are not going to be an easy time taking care of. I don't believe in unnecessary abortion against small types of illnesses. If the child has a terrible case of autism, then is guess the yes have to decide to abort it or choose to live a life with limits.

[Svipdag]

Yeah right, like that would happen to all cripples.

You missed my point. If Steinmetz had not been allowed to live and mature to adulthood, we would have been denied his important contributions, the potential for which could not have been determined, or even surmised, prenatally. It is impossible to determine what ANY fetus, normal or deformed will develop into. This fact ought to be borne seriously in mind before playing God.

[Andrei the 2nd]

You missed my point. If Steinmetz had not been allowed to live and mature to adulthood, we would have been denied his important contributions, the potential for which could not have been determined, or even surmised, prenatally. It is impossible to determine what ANY fetus, normal or deformed will develop into. This fact ought to be borne seriously in mind before playing God.

Your life isnt determined before your birth. The future is influenced by what you do. Anybody can do that stuff. We are born a blank state and overtime we collect information and knowledge in which will lead us to what we're doing to the world.

[Andrei the 2nd]

There are crippled fetuses who grow into humans that lead more productive lives than those who started off without any deficiencies.

Who knows? Their lives aren't objectively determined before birth or known what they're going to do. Most likely they are going to live limited lives and suffer. Those type of people are very rare though. Just because there's a guy with Down's syndrome who lives a very normal life doesn't mean we should go against the anortion over one person. It's just he tried his very best to live a life like ours.

[Raven_]

Who knows? Their lives aren't objectively determined before birth or known what they're going to do. Most likely they are going to live limited lives and suffer. Those type of people are very rare though. Just because there's a guy with Down's syndrome who lives a very normal life doesn't mean we should go against the anortion over one person. It's just he tried his very best to live a life like ours.

You say you want healthy children so that they would take care of you. Your healthy children may as well decide they don't want to take care of their mentally and/or physically disabled father, if you happen to be one. You see, you don't know what kind of children you might have just like you don't know what will be left out of you when you're old. You can make a choice, so can your children.

[Andrei the 2nd]

You say you want healthy children so that they would take care of you. Your healthy children may as well decide they don't want to take care of their mentally and/or physically disabled father, if you happen to be one. You see, you don't know what kind of children you might have just like you don't know what will be left out of you when you're old. You can make a choice, so can your children.

I was just giving an example why you should have healthy children.

[Meina]

The problem with that is that the tests used to determine disabilities in a fetus are not an exact science. I have worked with people before who have been told that their child will be born with a specific severe issue and the baby was born perfectly normal. They were horrified that they even considered abortion for a minute. Of course there's the argument that they wouldn't have known either way, but the point is that we can never really know what the state of the child is until they're born--unless and until the technology used to determine the health of the baby is perfected.

I have to point out aswell that it depends on what you'd determine as "crippled". A leg deformity but otherwise 100% normal? Or mental retardation? Children with physical deformities can often go on to have healthy normal lives, and healthy normal children.

[Taiga Lake]

I think there are disabilities, diseases and deformities nobody should have to live with (like epidermolysis bullosa) and they should be aborted so in very extreme cases i support so called eugenics (also i support abortion in rape cases), but i'm heavily against sterilization or killing of people who are already alive especially if they themselves don't want that (like nazis).