Increased European-like Admixture in Northern India: Ancient Greek influence?

[Longbowman]

Ancient Greeks rules Northwest India (Punjab region) from Alexander's conquests to the first century AD; thereafter Greek was still widely spoken and in use until the 8th century, and certain tribes such as the Kalash and Hanza and Nuristani in Pakistan and Southern Afghanistan still claim Greek heritage. Some estimates put Greek (and other ancient European) genetic admixture in Punjabis at 0-15%. Some tribes in Afghanistan have incredibly high European or East Med type haplogroups (which some people consider Jewish, but could just as easily be Greek). Greeks had a huge diaspora until very recently from the Atlantic to the Himalayas of which there are still some communities extant. Thoughts?

[Longbowman]

Genetic origins[edit]

Rosenberg et al. (2006) ran simulations dividing autosomal
gene frequencies in selected populations into a given number of clusters. For 7 or more clusters, a cluster (yellow) appears which is nearly unique to the Kalash. Smaller amounts of Kalash gene frequencies join clusters associated with Europe and Middle East (blue) and with South Asia (red).
Genetic analysis of Y-chromosome DNA (Y-DNA) by Firasat et al. (2007) on Kalash individuals found high and diverse frequencies of these Y-DNA Haplogroups: L3a (22.7%), H1* (20.5%), R1a (18.2%), G (18.2%), J2 (9.1%), R* (6.8%), R1* (2.3%), and L* (2.3%).[38] Haplogroup L and Haplogroup H are thought to have originated from prehistoric South Asia.[39]

Genetic analysis of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) by Quintana-Murci et al. (2004) stated that "the western Eurasian presence in the Kalash population reaches a frequency of 100%" with the most prevalent mtDNA Haplogroups being U4 (34%), R0 (23%), U2e (16%), and J2 (9%). The study asserted that no East or South Asian lineages were detected and that the Kalash population is composed of western Eurasian lineages (as the associated lineages are rare or absent in the surrounding populations). The authors concluded that a western Eurasian origin for the Kalash is likely, in view of their maternal lineages.[40]

A study of ASPM gene variants by Mekel-Bobrov et al. (2005) found that the Kalash people of Pakistan have among the highest rate of the newly evolved ASPM Haplogroup D[clarification needed], at 60% occurrence of the approximately 6,000-year-old allele.[41] The Kalash also have been shown to exhibit the exceedingly rare 19 allele value at autosomal marker D9S1120 at a frequency higher than the majority of other world populations which do have it.[42]

A study by Rosenberg et al. (2006) employing genetic testing among the Kalash population concluded that they are a distinct (and perhaps aboriginal) population with only minor contributions from outside peoples. In one cluster analysis with (K = 7), the Kalash formed one cluster, the others being Africans, Europeans, Middle Easterners, South Asians, East Asians, Melanesians, and Native Americans. [43]

A study by Li et al. (2008) with geneticists using more than 650,000 single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP) samples from the Human Genome Diversity Panel, found deep rooted lineages that could be distinguished in the Kalash. The results showed them clustered within the Central/South Asian populations at (K = 7). The study also showed the Kalash to be a separated group, having no membership within European populations.[44]

Speculated Greek descent[edit]
Three Pakistani populations residing in northern Pakistan, the Burusho, the Pathan, and the Kalash claim descent from Greek soldiers associated with Alexander's invasion of southwest Asia. [45] However, on the basis of Y chromosome allele frequency, some researchers describe the exact Greek contribution to Kalash as unclear.[46]

A study by Qamar et al. (2002) found that even though "no support for a Greek origin of their Y chromosomes was found" in the Kalash, Greek Y-chromosome admixture could be as high as 20% to 40%.[47] Considering the apparent absence of Haplogroup 21 (E-M35) in the local population, one of the possibilities suggested was because of genetic drift.[47]

The estimates by Qamar et al. of Greek admixture has been dismissed by Toomas Kivisild et al. (2003) stating that “some admixture models and programs that exist are not always adequate and realistic estimators of gene flow between populations ... this is particularly the case when markers are used that do not have enough restrictive power to determine the source populations ... or when there are more than two parental populations. In that case, a simplistic model using two parental populations would show a bias towards overestimating admixture”.[48] The study came to the conclusion that the Kalash population estimate by Qamar et al. “is unrealistic and is likely also driven by the low marker resolution that pooled southern and western Asian–specific Y-chromosome Haplogroup H together with European-specific Haplogroup I, into an uninformative polyphyletic cluster 2”.[48]

Discover Magazine genetics blogger Razib Khan has repeatedly cited information indicating that the Kalash are an Indo-Iranian people with no Greek ethnic admixture.[49][50][51]

A study by Firasat et al. (2006) concluded that the Kalash lack typical Greek Haplogroups such as Haplogroup 21 (E-M35),[52]

A study by Hellenthal et al. (2014) on the DNA of the Kalash people showed evidence of input from Europe or the Middle East (the researchers could not pin down a precise geographic location) between 990 and 210 BC, a period that overlaps with that of Alexander the Great.[53][54]

[Longbowman]

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n1/full/5201726a.html


Y-chromosomal evidence for a limited Greek contribution to the Pathan population of Pakistan

Three Pakistani populations residing in northern Pakistan, the Burusho, Kalash and Pathan claim descent from Greek soldiers associated with Alexander's invasion of southwest Asia. Earlier studies have excluded a substantial Greek genetic input into these populations, but left open the question of a smaller contribution. We have now typed 90 binary polymorphisms and 16 multiallelic, short-tandem-repeat (STR) loci mapping to the male-specific portion of the human Y chromosome in 952 males, including 77 Greeks in order to re-investigate this question. In pairwise comparisons between the Greeks and the three Pakistani populations using genetic distance measures sensitive to recent events, the lowest distances were observed between the Greeks and the Pathans. Clade E3b1 lineages, which were frequent in the Greeks but not in Pakistan, were nevertheless observed in two Pathan individuals, one of whom shared a 16 Y-STR haplotype with the Greeks. The worldwide distribution of a shortened (9 Y-STR) version of this haplotype, determined from database information, was concentrated in Macedonia and Greece, suggesting an origin there. Although based on only a few unrelated descendants, this provides strong evidence for a European origin for a small proportion of the Pathan Y chromosomes.



Clade E lineages were more frequent in the Greeks (21%) as compared to Pakistan (4%). The majority of haplogroup E chromosomes belonged to clade E3b and all Greek and Pakistani samples were resolved into the branches E3b1 (M78) and E3b3 (M123). Among the three Pakistani populations claiming Greek descent, this clade was observed only in the Pathans. The Pathan samples belonged to clade E3b1 that constituted 17% of the Greek samples.

A median-joining network of clade E Y chromosomes was constructed in order to examine the genetic relationship between these Greek and Pathan samples. A duplication of 10 and 13 repeat units was observed in the clade-E-derived Y chromosomes for the trinucleotide repeat DYS425 and this locus was, therefore, excluded from the network. The most striking feature of this network was the sharing of haplotypes between the Pathan and Greek samples (Figure 4). One Pathan individual shared the same Y-STR haplotype with three Greek individuals, and the other Pathan sample was separated from this cluster by a single mutation at the DYS436 locus. This demonstrates a very close relationship between the Pathan and Greek E lineages, but how surprising is this?

[quediustu]

The european-like admixture is the result of central asian iranian tribes migrating and mixing into dravidian territory.
The greek admixture is either null or minimal.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

When it comes to the Kalash and Hanza although their own legends speak of Alexander the Great's soldiers DNA testing does not back up their stories, I recall reading this on multiple different sources, which I am far too insomniac drunk at the moment to look up. I dated some part north indian/paki girls was nice i had a taste for curry.

[cally]

It is Scythian.

[Longbowman]

The european-like admixture is the result of central asian iranian tribes migrating and mixing into dravidian territory.
The greek admixture is either null or minimal.

Some studies suggest there is Greek admixture there. Did you read the Pakistani YDNA report which suggests close sharing with Greeks in up to 4% of the population? Furthermore the Greek presence is well attested. The European-like admixture, according to the National Geographic, is only around 5% anyway.

[Longbowman]

It is Scythian.

Can you evidence this by proving a) Scythians would have had European blood, and b) the admixture in Northern Subcontinentals is Scythian and not Greek/Macedonian.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

It is Scythian.

Far more likely actually.


Can you evidence this by proving a) Scythians would have had European blood, and b) the admixture in Northern Subcontinentals is Scythian and not Greek/Macedonian.

Scythian mummies were found in Western china and they were caucasoid with varying degrees of blondism and red hair, so it is only logical to assume they would have had Euro linked genes. As far as the studies that were done testing the Northern paki tribes I can look them up when I am more awake but its there.

[Longbowman]

Far more likely actually.

Except for the YDNA sharing with Greeks.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Except for the YDNA sharing with Greeks.

Now we will have to check if the Scythians YDNA is a match as well if not then we have a good story here indeed. You mean for Punjabis? I do actually believe the Punjabis carry greek, and in Afghanistan the Pashto that is certain.......... yes. I was more on about the blondies in north Pak whats their name///

[Longbowman]

Now we will have to check if the Scythians YDNA is a match as well if not then we have a good story here indeed. You mean for Punjabis? I do actually believe the Punjabis carry greek, and in Afghanistan the Pashto that is certain.......... yes. I was more on about the blondies in north Pak whats their name///

Yeah the Kalash don't have a great genetic claim, though it's not definite. The thing is, the Scythians would have to basically be Greek. The study found numerous incidences of actual or very similar matches with Pakistani and Greek Y-DNA. Also I doubt the Scythians were EV13, probably more QR.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Yeah the Kalash don't have a great genetic claim, though it's not definite. The thing is, the Scythians would have to basically be Greek. The study found numerous incidences of actual or very similar matches with Pakistani and Greek Y-DNA. Also I doubt the Scythians were EV13, probably more QR.

Likely, we will have to actually see the data sometime and stop speculating when I feel far more rested, and you konw what i mean/.

[quediustu]

Some studies suggest there is Greek admixture there. Did you read the Pakistani YDNA report which suggests close sharing with Greeks in up to 4% of the population? Furthermore the Greek presence is well attested. The European-like admixture, according to the National Geographic, is only around 5% anyway.

Only the relationship with ydna E3b has been found. Considering it only accounts for 21% of total greek ydna, what happened with the other haplogroupos? Only E3b men went to Pakistan? Very unlikely.

[Longbowman]

Only the relationship with ydna E3b has been found. Considering it only accounts for 21% of total greek ydna, what happened with the other haplogroupos? Only E3b men went to Pakistan? Very unlikely.

But the matches are perfect/almost perfect. And the other groups do exist too. Furthermore considering small admixture, genetic drift could easily explain the absence of some of the other groups.

[Ianus]

Historically speaking there were the Indo Greeks kingdoms in India, between the III BC and I century
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Indo-GreekWestermansNarain.jpg

Some cities were founded and there were settlements of Greek soldiers. However the genetic impact on local population should be low, unless some remote zone.

[Ianus]

Perhaps ther were some intermarriage between Indians and Greeks


In 305 BC, Seleucus I led an army to the Indus, where he encountered Chandragupta. The confrontation ended with a peace treaty, and "an intermarriage agreement" (Epigamia, Greek: Ἐπιγαμία), meaning either a dynastic marriage or an agreement for intermarriage between Indians and Greeks. Accordingly, Seleucus ceded to Chandragupta his northwestern territories, possibly as far as Arachosia and received 500 war elephants (which played a key role in the victory of Seleucus at the Battle of Ipsus):[11]


"The Indians occupy in part some of the countries situated along the Indus, which formerly belonged to the Persians: Alexander deprived the Ariani of them, and established there settlements of his own. But Seleucus Nicator gave them to Sandrocottus in consequence of a marriage contract, and received in return five hundred elephants."

—Strabo 15.2.1(9

[wvwvw]

More:

SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2013
Afghani cap with Hellenistic Connection

Doing research on Hellenistic centers in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India, I discovered an article titled "The Cap that Survived Alexander", by Bonnie Kingsley, in the American Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 85, No. 1, Jan., 1981.

It connects the history of the chitrali that is worn today in Pakistan and Afghanistan with the Kausia (Καυσία), the cap worn Greeks during the Hellenistc era.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-94ZnwQBUYIQ/UQ73dYZ_v1I/AAAAAAAABPg/R4hKhg8wlxo/s1600/Bonnie+Kinsgsley+the+cap+that+survived+Alexander.j pg

Source (Jstor)
Wikipedia entry on Kausia

The so-called Macedonian kausia was originally identical with a cap often called a chitrali still worn today by men in Afghanistan, Pakistan and, above all, in Nuristan. No kausia is mentioned in Greek literature before 325/24 B. C. No depiction of the cap can be securely dated earlier than that time. The kausia came to the Mediterranean as a campaign hat worn by Alexander and veterans of his campaigns in India. Descendants of the people from whom the cap was taken may well survive in Asia today.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/504964?uid=3738984&uid=2460338175&uid=2460337935&uid=2&uid=4&uid=83&uid=63&sid=21102552410927]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Antialcidas_Indo_Greek_coin.jpg

Depictions of the kausia can be found on a variety of coins and statues found from the Mediterranean to the Greco-Bactrian kingdom and the Indo-Greeks in northwestern India. A modern descendant of the hat may be the Pakol, a men's hat from the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Indo-Greeks

The Indo-Greek Kingdom or Graeco-Indian Kingdom was a Hellenistic kingdom covering various parts of the northwest regions of the Indian subcontinent during the last two centuries BC, and was ruled by more than 30 kings, often in conflict with each other.

The kingdom was founded when the Graeco-Bactrian king Demetrius invaded India early in the 2nd century BC. Pushed by the Scythian tribes, the Graeco-Bactrians were forced to invade India. The Greeks in India were eventually divided from the Graeco-Bactrians centered in Bactria (now the border between Afghanistan and Uzbekistan). But, the Greeks failed to establish a united rule in north-western India. The most famous Indo-Greek ruler was Menander (Milinda). He had his capital at Sakala in Punjab, modern Pakistan, and he successfully invaded the Ganges-Yamuna doab.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Indo-Greeks_100bc.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/4/4d/20080801231344%21Indo-Greeks_100bc.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Antialcidas.JPG
Coin with Antialkidas' (c. 145-135 B.C.) head, an Indo-Greek king. Silver drachma

[cally]

It would make more sense to look at their West and East Med scores and they don't score much.

[Longbowman]

It would make more sense to look at their West and East Med scores and they don't score much.

Yes but is what little they score attributable to Greeks?

[cally]

Yes but is what little they score attributable to Greeks?

Possibly or neolithic farmers.

I thought this theory was debunked a while ago because they don't have E-V13 which is the typical E1b clade in Greece.

[wvwvw]

INDIA: 10 coins from the period c. 500-1 BCE

Bactria, Seleucid, Seleucos I Silver tetradrachm, c. 290 BCE
Weight: 16.87 gm., Diam: 26 mm.

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/1.png

Laureate, bearded bust of Zeus right / Athena driving elephant quadriga
Greek legend: BAΣIΛEΩΣ ΣEΛEYKOY (of King Seleucos)
Bactria: Seleucid
Seleucos I
Silver drachm, c. 290 BCE
Weight:4.22 gm., Diam:16-17 mm., Die axis:6h

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2.png

Bust of horned horse right/ Seleucid anchor
Greek legend: BAΣIΛEΩΣ ΣEΛEYKOY (of King Seleucos)

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2.png

Bactrian Kingdom, Diodotos I or II, Gold stater, c. 250-230 BCE
Weight: 8.24 gm., Diam: 18 mm

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/3.png

Diademed head of Dioddotos right, dotted border around /
Nude Zeus standing left, seen from behind, holding aegis on left arm, hurling thunderbolt with right
Eagle at left, Greek legend, at right: BAΣIΛEΩΣ, at left: ΔIOΔOTOY

Bactria: Diodotos I or II, as King
Bronze dichalkon, c. 240 BCE
Weight: 5.74 gm., Diam: 21 mm., Die axis: 6h

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/41.png

Bust of Hermes right, wearing petasos /
Pallas Athena standing facing, holding spear
Greek legend: BAΣIΛEΩΣ ΔIOΔOTOY (of King Diodotos)

coinindia.com/fifty-coins1.htm

[Longbowman]

Possibly or neolithic farmers.

I thought this theory was debunked a while ago because they don't have E-V13 which is the typical E1b clade in Greece.

See post #3.