Mussolini vs. the Mafia

[Piccolo]

Cesare Mori was a famous anti-Mafia prefect of Sicily during the Fascist period in Italy. He was given the nickname the "Iron Prefect" because of his extremely tough anti-Mafia campaign that included mass arrests, house-to-house searches, and even the taking of hostages to force suspects to give themselves up. Mori was relieved of his duty in 1929 and made a senator and Mussolini declared the Mafia defeated.

So how successful was Cesare Mori? My understanding is that Mori was pretty successful, and that his success forced many Sicilian Mafiosi to flee to the United States (for example, Joseph Bonanno).

Finally, as a counter-factual, if Mussolini had been like Franco and stayed neutral during World War II and remained in power for a few more decades, do you think the Fascists would have wiped out organized crime in Sicily and the rest of Italy?

Cesare Mori

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Cesare_Mori.jpg

[Kamal900]

Yes i do, and its a shame really. Franco, of all the fascist leaders of the 20th century, was the most successful of them all. Franco was a very realistic man, and he cared ONLY for the will being of his people, and he dosent have an obsession on something, like Mussolini's roman imperialism or Hitler's Germanic Aryan greatness and stuff like that which blinded their judgement. I'm not sure if the mafia is severe in today's Italy, but Corsica has a very major mafia problem in that Island even though its french territory but has italian connection.

[Piccolo]

Yes i do, and its a shame really. Franco, of all the fascist leaders of the 20th century, was the most successful of them all. Franco was a very realistic man, and he cared ONLY for the will being of his people, and he dosent have an obsession on something, like Mussolini's roman imperialism or Hitler's Germanic Aryan greatness and stuff like that which blinded their judgement. I'm not sure if the mafia is severe in today's Italy, but Corsica has a very major mafia problem in that Island even though its french territory but has italian connection.

I agree with your assessment of Franco. As for the Italian mafia, it is still strong as far as I know, especially in Calabria where the ‛Ndrangheta organization has become one of the biggest organized crime syndicates in the world.

[Piccolo]

Bump.

[Piccolo]

Bump 2.

[Alessio]

No I don't think so.

[Piccolo]

No I don't think so.

Do you think organized crime is just too strongly ingrained in Sicily and Southern Italy?

[Immortal Technique]

Mafia is stronger than anything,they rule everything and will do forever.

[Alessio]

Do you think organized crime is just too strongly ingrained in Sicily and Southern Italy?

Sure, as long as the government doesn't provide good care for everyone and only behaves predatorily, organizations like the ones we're talking about will keep their power intact. In the case of Sicily (Palermo region is known for the Cosa Nostra) the government is only there to keep the infrastructure intact and most 'things' are being taken care of by the Mafia; internal and external.

[Ulla]

Sure, as long as the government doesn't provide good care for everyone and only behaves predatorily, organizations like the ones we're talking about will keep their power intact. In the case of Sicily (Palermo region is known for the Cosa Nostra) the government is only there to keep the infrastructure intact and most 'things' are being taken care of by the Mafia; internal and external.

Currently Sicilian Mafia isn't strong anymore as in the past.

The stronger actually is the Calabrese Ndrangheta, that has taken root abroad, Germany included.

[albosomething]

albanian mafia is where its at :P

[Empecinado]

Allies are to blame for the resurrection of Mafia after WW2. It's well known they collaborated with Mafiosos to ensure the invasion of Italy.

[Ulla]

Allies are to blame for the resurrection of Mafia after WW2. It's well known they collaborated with Mafiosos to ensure the invasion of Italy.

Yep, totally agree with you.

[Bell Beaker]

How did perform the Economy of Italy, under Mussolini rule?

[glicine max]

How did perform the Economy of Italy, under Mussolini rule?
bad,especially after the failure military expeditions in africa,spain,greece,ecc which ran out of all the country's money,but even as a whole the economy was a disaster in a desperate attempt to pursuing an utopian autarchy

[Alessio]

Currently Sicilian Mafia isn't strong anymore as in the past.

The stronger actually is the Calabrese Ndrangheta, that has taken root abroad, Germany included.

It's not really in the open and who knows who has the power. In Sicily itself they have the last say in a lot of matters like you perhaps already know.

[Alessio]

bad,especially after the failure military expeditions in africa,spain,greece,ecc which ran out of all the country's money,but even as a whole the economy was a disaster in a desperate attempt to pursuing an utopian autarchy

Mussolini had a severe form of ''megalomania'' :p

[LightHouse89]

that dude is needed in boston.

[LightHouse89]

Mussolini had a severe form of ''megalomania'' :p

mussolini for president!

[Piccolo]

that dude is needed in boston.

And Chicago. The gangs in Chicago are so bad people are calling Chicago "Chiraq."

[Bell Beaker]

Well, the Germans in the Third Reich era were one of the if not the people with best conditions of life.

I tought that Italians in Fascist era lived so well as British or French people and better than Soviets.

[LightHouse89]

And Chicago. The gangs in Chicago are so bad people are calling Chicago "Chiraq."

here the mob has influence supposedly with the FBI field office....would not surprise me the Irish run this whole area somewhat still.

[Jehan]

First for Franco, no he wasn't a great leader Portugal was undevelop country as the third world. Even now with the millions gave by European Union, the diaspora and the tourism, portugal economy is still weak.


For the mafia. Mussolini have been pretty efficient with some mafiosi clan. He litteraly destroyed some mob clan. But some others mafiosi had link with fascist and have been protected by them. It was a minority of mafiosi but they continued their business without trouble.
Maybe Mussolini was thinking they can't fight all the mafia in once and decided to make ally with some and finish the job later. The fascist political agenda was pretty big.

Anyway to destroy an organisation as strong as the mafia in sicilia, it take decades of a voluntary and strong politics. So for me Mussolini was right, the only way is to literraly purge sicilia.

[Jehan]

...

[Bell Beaker]

First for Franco, no he wasn't a great leader Portugal was undevelop country as the third world. Even now with the millions gave by European Union, the diaspora and the tourism, portugal economy is still weak.


For the mafia. Mussolini have been pretty efficient with some mafiosi clan. He litteraly destroyed some mob clan. But some others mafiosi had link with fascist and have been protected by them. It was a minority of mafiosi but they continued their business without trouble.
Maybe Mussolini was thinking they can't fight all the mafia in once and decided to make ally with some and finish the job later. The fascist political agenda was pretty big.

Anyway to destroy an organisation as strong as the mafia in sicilia, it take decades of a voluntary and strong politics. So for me Mussolini was right, the only way is to literraly purge sicilia.

:eek:

Franco was a Spanish ditator, Salazar was the Portuguese ditatorial, and in the end of the Regime se were far of being a third World country!

[Jehan]

:eek:

Franco was a Spanish ditator, Salazar was the Portuguese ditatorial, and in the end of the Regime se were far of being a third World country!

That's true i was thinking to a friend when i type the message ;). But the conclusion is the same.

Franco wasn't a great leader for Spain was undevelop country as the third world. Even now with the millions gave by European Union, the diaspora and the tourism, spain economy is still weak.

[Bell Beaker]

That's true i was thinking to a friend when i type the message ;). But the conclusion is the same.

Franco wasn't a great leader for Spain was undevelop country as the third world. Even now with the millions gave by European Union, the diaspora and the tourism, spain economy is still weak.

Your wrong my French friend!

[Jehan]

Your wrong my French friend!

Sorry you are right and i'am wrong, Spain and Portugal are the first and second world economy.

[Bell Beaker]

Sorry you are right and i'am wrong, Spain and Portugal are the first and second world economy.

Portuguese economy in 1974 was better than any moderna African State, and some Asians states like Vietname, Laos, Cambodja...

[Empecinado]

That's true i was thinking to a friend when i type the message ;). But the conclusion is the same.

Franco wasn't a great leader for Spain was undevelop country as the third world. Even now with the millions gave by European Union, the diaspora and the tourism, spain economy is still weak.

Absolutely not true. Look at my signature.

[xilofono]

it is a controversial argument, it's certain that when the investigation of mori came to touch the upper floors of the fascist sicilian party, mori was removed from sicily with his appointment as senator