Swiss and belgians not real ethnicities

[TheForeigner]

Why do these genetic studies treat the swiss and belgians as real ethnic groups and feature them on pls plots? I am sure there is some minor genetic difference between walloons and flemings and maybe more between germanic swiss, rhaeto-romans and french swiss, not to speak of italian swiss who are just north italians south of the Alps who ended up on the wrong side of the border. Their ethnic origins are not the same and they don't just speak different languages by accident.

[Arbërori]

Well to me Switzerland and Belgium are just multi-ethnic countries, that's all.

[lonely forest]

I think so as well. But its true that they one of the best democracies in the world and that they are multi-ethnic countries.

[Arbërori]

I think so as well. But its true that they are multi-ethnic countries, one of the best democracies in the world.

That has nothing to do with them having the best democracies... That's a completely different story. Look at Turkey and it's so-called ''democracy''.

[lonely forest]

That has nothing to do with them having the best democracies... That's a completely different story. Look at Turkey and it's so-called ''democracy''.

I'm not a fan of Turkey or Albania. Why you are saying these?. Belgium and Switzerland both are true multi-ethnic countries and very good democracies.

[Arbërori]

I'm not a fan of Turkey or Albania. Why you are saying these?. Belgium and Switzerland both are true multi-ethnic countries and very good democracies.

What does Albania have to do with Turkey? Turkey is multi-ethnic aswell but look at it... The key lies in European ethnicity.

[lonely forest]

What does Albania have to do with Turkey? Turkey is multi-ethnic aswell but look at it... The key lies in European ethnicity.

You should ask yourself what this thread have to do with Turkey? i'm not into empty discussions my friend.

[Arbërori]

You should ask yourself what this thread have to do with Turkey? i'm not into empty discussions my friend.

Use your empty brain cells, multi-ethnic country -> Turkey.

http://i.imgur.com/tH7MrOO.gif

[lonely forest]

Use your empty brain cells, multi-ethnic country -> Turkey.

http://i.imgur.com/tH7MrOO.gif

Learn synonyms of words you use miserable dumb, how about common-wealth? thats what we talk in this thread in fact.

[Arbërori]

Learn synonyms of words you use miserable dumb, how about common-wealth? thats what we exatcly talk in this thread.

http://i.imgur.com/Igfmh1d.gif

Wow, you people really are as dumb as Germans make of you... Hmm...

[Jehan]

I should not be surprise if swiss have some caracteristic feature. It's a mountain country who are independant from many centuries. There is a strong recent immigration but in the past i don't know if the population change a lot.

[Böri]

That has nothing to do with them having the best democracies... That's a completely different story. Look at Turkey and it's so-called ''democracy''.
France is multi-ethnic country too but France is centralised. In Turkey their is Communist terrorism. This is not easy. Turkey is in Middle east. Middle East realities are different than European realities.

[Arbërori]

France is multi-ethnic country too but France is centralised. In Turkey their is Communist terrorism. This is not easy. Turkey is in Middle east. Middle East realities are different than European realities.

Well what can you do, after Ataturk you all went crazy. xD

[lonely forest]

http://i.imgur.com/Igfmh1d.gif

Wow, you people really are as dumb as Germans make of you... Hmm...

You idiotic scum, i'm not Turkish, but you are even more pathetic than them, a stupid person from Albania a pathetic baby country with a history based on external hegemony throughtout the Europe.

[Arbërori]

You idiotic scum, i'm not Turkish, but you are even more pathetic than them, a stupid person from Albania a pathetic baby country based on a sad history that consist of external hegemony throughtout the Europe.

You're Georgian, a part of Turkey. Speaking of hegemony, there are only Albanian minorities in countries surrounding us, while the immigrants mostly return back to get married and build houses, unlike Georgians or Laz who become more Turkish than Turks themselves. xD

Example of Laz scum is Erdogan. :coffee:

[lonely forest]

You're Georgian, a part of Turkey. Speaking of hegemony, there are only Albanian minorities in countries surrounding us, while the immigrants mostly return back to get married and build houses, unlike Georgians or Laz who become more Turkish than Turks themselves. xD

Example of Laz scum is Erdogan. :coffee:

Nope. You Albanians are even dumber than Turks and Communism make you of, all you are saying are nonsense to me. You are waste of time so go to hell:wavey001:

[Pendragon]

Well to me Switzerland and Belgium are just multi-ethnic countries, that's all.
You should not exaggerated either!
There is more difference between an Alsatian with a French Basque, or a German near the Baltic with a Bavarian.
No country is uniform!

The difference is rather in the heads and cultural rather than genetic...

[Ars Moriendi]

Multilingual countries. People are very similar inside them.
I can't think of any way to recognize a Dutch-speaker from a French-speaker in Brussels other than his accent. And I've been there to make the test.

[TheForeigner]

Multilingual countries. People are very similar inside them.
I can't think of any way to recognize a Dutch-speaker from a French-speaker in Brussels other than his accent. And I've been there to make the test.

Are you colombian? Why do you like hungarians so much and hate romanians? What is your ethnicity or what kind of colombian are you? Any hungarian blood in you?

[TheForeigner]

Bump

[acbrasil]

Are you colombian? Why do you like hungarians so much and hate romanians? What is your ethnicity or what kind of colombian are you? Any hungarian blood in you?

Are you Romanian?

[JohnSmith]

Makes sense ,, I am confused for Swiss a lot actually.

[TheForeigner]

Makes sense ,, I am confused for Swiss a lot actually.

Where and by who?:)

[TheForeigner]

Are you Romanian?

Yes, I am from Romania.

[Musso]

Swiss and Belgian are National Identities. Within those countries there are specific ethnic groups, e.g. Walloons, Flemish, Swiss Germans, Swiss French, Romansh, etc.

[TheForeigner]

Swiss and Belgian are National Identities. Within those countries there are specific ethnic groups, e.g. Walloons, Flemish, Swiss Germans, Swiss French, Romansh, etc.

Belgians don't even get along with each other. That country should be divided in two by referendum.

[Petros Houhoulis]

France is multi-ethnic country too but France is centralised. In Turkey their is Communist terrorism. This is not easy. Turkey is in Middle east. Middle East realities are different than European realities.

The Middle East is full of Muslim idiots like yourself. No doubt it's fucked up...

[Corvus]

Yes, I am from Romania.

Your whole attidute and terminology reminds me of Aherne.
Are you the same person

[TheForeigner]

Your whole attidute and terminology reminds me of Aherne.
Are you the same person

No and what terminology do I use that reminds you of him. Aryan is almost his catchword and I don't know if I ever used it here and I laugh at ''classification threads'', while he is a ''known expert''. Maybe just both ''racist'' and what else is similar in attitude?

[Corvus]

No and what terminology do I use that reminds you of him. Aryan is almost his catchword and I don't know if I ever used it here and I laugh at ''classification threads'', while he is a ''known expert''. Maybe just both ''racist'' and what else is similar in attitude?

You have both a certain knowledge about history, both of you write fluent English which is not usual for the average Apricity user from the Balkan region and your political ideology is as you mentioned identical as well as your whole vision and view of world developments. Ofc he is focused almost exclusivly on classification and anthro issues while you comment on all kind of matters...

[finþaų]

What's a "real ethnicity" anyhow? A tribe with a standing army and legal apparatus?

[XUTERO]

I think so as well. But its true that they one of the best democracies in the world and that they are multi-ethnic countries.

No, Belgium is a one way dictatorship that give it's ass to the USA and Israel. You can get arrested for no reason and the officials falsifies the vote results.
It is one of the worst countries in the world, in terms of democracy.

By the way democracy does not exist, it is only a lie used to justify the Zionist domination of our country. Democracy was born long ago in Athens and died a few years later at that same place.

[TheForeigner]

You have both a certain knowledge about history, both of you write fluent English which is not usual for the average Apricity user from the Balkan region and your political ideology is as you mentioned identical as well as your whole vision and view of world developments. Ofc he is focused almost exclusivly on classification and anthro issues while you comment on all kind of matters...

This isn't true. I am not a fascist. Most forum members are 'racist'. That is not something typical of just us. I am ok with Aherne, but we don't have the same ideology. In fact, I don't even have very fixed and well defined ideological views.

[TheForeigner]

No, Belgium is a one way dictatorship that give it's ass in the USA and Israel. You can get arrested for no reason and the officials falsifies the vote results.
It is one of the worst countries in the world, in terms of democracy.

By the way democracy does not exist, it is only a lie used to justify the Zionist domination of our country. Democracy was born long ago in Athens and died a few years later at that same place.

Do you support peaceful partition of the country and are you a Flemish or Walloon nationalist?

[TheForeigner]

What's a "real ethnicity" anyhow? A tribe with a standing army and legal apparatus?

You may as well claim there is no such thing as an ethnicity. Belgians and Swiss don't have a common language or national culture, so don't have the prerequisites of a proper ethnicity, but some people pretend they are. I doubt Swiss even have the same average looks, since they are the sum of North Italians, South Germanics and Central Frenchmen or ''Gallic'' people and let's not forget the small Central European Latin people: the Romansch.

[Petalpusher]

They are both a sub ethnicity on their own, German/French essentially for Swiss with some overlap (Italian plot a bit less). Belgians in the same way with obviously a stronger GB/NL influence.

http://s11.postimg.org/ccemrtfmr/novembreblogpostfig.jpg

[TheForeigner]

[QUOTE=Petalpusher;3212496]They are both a sub ethnicity on their own, German/French essentially for Swiss with some overlap (Italian plot a bit less). Belgians in the same way with obviously a stronger GB/NL influence.
You mean genetically and presumably by ethnic origin the Belgian groups and the Germanic and French Swiss are the same almost? Well, language, culture and self-perception still make them different peoples.

[Petalpusher]

You mean genetically and presumably by ethnic origin the Belgian groups and the Germanic and French Swiss are the same almost? Well, language, culture and self-perception still make them different peoples.

Yea sure i was talking about genetic, assessing ethno-racial makeup by ethno-linguistic settings.

[TheForeigner]

Do the French consider the Walloons and Romands as their ethnic brothers?

[LightHouse89]

British isnt really an ethnicity.

[LightHouse89]

Do the French consider the Walloons and Romands as their ethnic brothers?

Walloons yes. Those are the real Franks :cool:

[Petalpusher]

I don't know about "ethnic brothers" but i would say we feel closer to Swiss overall, maybe because a lot work or settled in Switzerland, eventually leading to more familiies link and cultural exchanges nowadays. N-E French could well disagree.

[TheForeigner]

I don't know about "ethnic brothers" but i would say we feel closer to Swiss overall, maybe because a lot work or settled in Switzerland, eventually leading to more familiies link and cultural exchanges nowadays. N-E French could well disagree.

Why not Walloons too? I think the Flemings hate you. There is even this funny comedy film by your Danny Boon from a few years ago, which makes light humour of the animosity between French and Belgians in general. Well, the chauvinist Belgian in the film has a Flemish surname at least, but they pretend Belgians are one French-speaking people for some reason. Where do you get Belgians whith mixed names like Jean Claude Van Damme anyway? Is he mixed or just Brussels area has that mix?

[TheForeigner]

Walloons yes. Those are the real Franks :cool:

No, the Flemings are. Walloons are Gallic and Latin, like the French.

[Petalpusher]

Why not Walloons too? I think the Flemings hate you. There is even this funny comedy film by your Danny Boon from a few years ago, which makes light humour of the animosity between French and Belgians in general. Well, the chauvinist Belgian in the film has a Flemish surname at least, but they pretend Belgians are one French-speaking people for some reason. Where do you get Belgians whith mixed names like Jean Claude Van Damme anyway? Is he mixed or just Brussels area has that mix?

The Flemings "hate" the Walloons, not us. There is some level of animosity between French and Belgians because we make fun of their accent to say the least (i mean from a modern standpoint), and their supposedly low intelligence (that's just taunting). If you are talking about Benoit Poelvoorde, he is Walloons and famous in France. Vandamme has a Flemish mother and Walloon father despite the surname (Varenberg or something initially). There is certainly more opportunities to make films in France if you are, or identify as, Walloon.

[LightHouse89]

No, the Flemings are. Walloons are Gallic and Latin, like the French.

No the ethnic divide in Belgian is linguistic not genetic. Belgians as a whole cluster with Franks or are related to them. Northern Eastern french are about the same as that area was heavily settled by the Franks. Dont believe me ask some French people here they know all about that history.

[LightHouse89]

I don't know about "ethnic brothers" but i would say we feel closer to Swiss overall, maybe because a lot work or settled in Switzerland, eventually leading to more familiies link and cultural exchanges nowadays. N-E French could well disagree.

I always think of the Swiss as Germanic speaking Celts hahaha. But there are French speaking Swiss, Italian speaking Swiss and then the German speaking Swiss.

[TheForeigner]

No the ethnic divide in Belgian is linguistic not genetic. Belgians as a whole cluster with Franks or are related to them. Northern Eastern french are about the same as that area was heavily settled by the Franks. Dont believe me ask some French people here they know all about that history.

There is only minor admixture from Franks in French-speaking peoples. Even Flemings must have significant Gallic admixture.

[LightHouse89]

There is only minor admixture from Franks in French-speaking peoples. Even Flemings must have significant Gallic admixture.

The Belgians are a fusion of the Belgea celts and Franks. The Franks heavily settled in France. However the North Eastern region of France....and then some ventured all over France.

[Balmung]

But you'd also have to question other nations, too. Is Italian really an ethnicity? is French?

[Petalpusher]

I always think of the Swiss as Germanic speaking Celts hahaha. But there are French speaking Swiss, Italian speaking Swiss and then the German speaking Swiss.

I think the whole world see it this way, not sure exactly why, probably the name "Switzerland" alone. Reality is a bit different.

[LightHouse89]

I think the whole world see it this way, not sure exactly why. Reality is a bit different.

Really? Are there more French speakers? Do the french speakers play the Alphorn? :cool::thumb001:

[TheForeigner]

But you'd also have to question other nations, too. Is Italian really an ethnicity? is French?

Yes, they are.

[TheForeigner]

Really? Are there more French speakers? Do the french speakers play the Alphorn? :cool::thumb001:

No, over half are German speaking. And they don't just speak German.They are of Germanic stock too, but with large Celtic admixture too. Just like Austrians and southern Germans.

[LightHouse89]

But you'd also have to question other nations, too. Is Italian really an ethnicity? is French?

not anymore. mainly because anyone born there is apart of that nationality. I mean a black born in germany today is considered german. so nationality itself has zero meaning behind it in terms of ethnics.

Although ethnic groups might be a different matter. I do not consider blacks, asians or other groups born in England to be English.....they might be British but they are certainly not English.

[TheForeigner]

not anymore. mainly because anyone born there is apart of that nationality. I mean a black born in germany today is considered german. so nationality itself has zero meaning behind it in terms of ethnics.

Although ethnic groups might be a different matter. I do not consider blacks, asians or other groups born in England to be English.....they might be British but they are certainly not English.
Ethnicity and political ''nationality''(i.e. citizenship) are different matters. Nationality used to mean ethnicity too.

[LightHouse89]

Ethnicity and political ''nationality''(i.e. citizenship) are different matters. Nationality used to mean ethnicity too.

yes but today that is changing thanks to cultural marxism.

[Petalpusher]

Really? Are there more French speakers? Do the french speakers play the Alphorn? :cool::thumb001:

Hehe no, what i meant was the Swiss are a bit more than only just German. I think the language distribution is something like 60 German - 30 French -10 Italian/Romanish, so yea more than half speak German but genetically they are almost a perfect intermediate of French and German (which are already close) with a touch of Italian.

About the Franks, of course the kingdom extended well over today Belgium which is a small country, so at this scale the influence was huge but the actual Flemings are more leaning to the Saxon side. Some good article about the subject i believe : http://larocheusa.org/histoire.htm

[Hevo]

The Belgians are a fusion of the Belgea celts and Franks. The Franks heavily settled in France. However the North Eastern region of France....and then some ventured all over France.

Southern Dutch people have the most (Salian atleast) Frankish admixture imo.

[LightHouse89]

Hehe no, what i meant was the Swiss are a bit more than only just German. I think the language distribution is something like 60 German - 30 French -10 Italian/Romanish, so yea more than half speak German but genetically they are almost a perfect intermediate of French and German (which are already close) with a touch of Italian.

About the Franks, of course the kingdom extended well over today Belgium which is a small country, so at this scale the influence was huge but the actual Flemings are more leaning to the Saxon side. Some good article about the subject i believe : http://larocheusa.org/histoire.htm

thankyou. I think Rudel in the past may have confused me as to where the Franks actually came from and the level of impact they had on the gene pool of france....I think by now almost every french person has frankish, gaul and some roman ancestry. Not to mention burgundian, norse and some iberian to the south west.

But thankyou for that link. Yes one of my friends speaks german and he thinks swiss sounds odd to him hahaha.

The flemish and dutch to me are the closest to Anglo-Saxons or English people.

[Yuffayur]

Swiss as Belgians, Americans and Canadians are not true ethnicities more a nation like.

[XUTERO]

Do you support peaceful partition of the country and are you a Flemish or Walloon nationalist?

I'm neither a Flemish or Walloon Nationalist, my politics are National Socialist, it's impossible for me to desire separatism for Belgium.
Now, more than ever, we need union spirit. As an extend, Germany should merge again with Austria and recover the stolen land from the treaty of Versailles.
The Balkanic countries should merge again also, separatism only serves the interests of the enemies of Europe.


Why not Walloons too? I think the Flemings hate you. There is even this funny comedy film by your Danny Boon from a few years ago, which makes light humour of the animosity between French and Belgians in general. Well, the chauvinist Belgian in the film has a Flemish surname at least, but they pretend Belgians are one French-speaking people for some reason. Where do you get Belgians whith mixed names like Jean Claude Van Damme anyway? Is he mixed or just Brussels area has that mix?

Even if we speak different languages, Belgium remains one populace as a whole. That's why, by marriage names of Walloons and Flemish can get names from one another.

[Ades]

You should not exaggerated either!
There is more difference between an Alsatian with a French Basque, or a German near the Baltic with a Bavarian.
No country is uniform!

The difference is rather in the heads and cultural rather than genetic...

Actually, there is a considerable genetic difference between these places you mentioned, even if they are within the same country.

That's especially true regarding the Basques.

[Ades]

Belgians as a whole cluster with Franks or are related to them.

We can't really tell that yet, as no ancient Frankish genome has been tested.

Dutch people south of the Rhine are "more southern" compared to those from the north. That makes it very likely that the Belgians have a considerable Celtic/Gaulish and probably even Roman influence, compared to the "more purely Germanic" north Dutch people.

Belgians are probably a 3-way admixture between these groups.

[Tchek]

Why not Walloons too? I think the Flemings hate you. There is even this funny comedy film by your Danny Boon from a few years ago, which makes light humour of the animosity between French and Belgians in general. Well, the chauvinist Belgian in the film has a Flemish surname at least, but they pretend Belgians are one French-speaking people for some reason. Where do you get Belgians whith mixed names like Jean Claude Van Damme anyway? Is he mixed or just Brussels area has that mix?

Actually, many French people don't know Belgium much and consider it as a single unit, vaguely of flemish influenced northerners speaking with a weird accent, they know vaguely that a part of the population don't speak French.
Belgium tried to constitute itself as a "French-speaking nation of Flemish culture and sensibility" (example: Maurice Maeterlinck and Jacques Brel), which was the "Belgian" cultural construct of the 19th century. It stopped during WWI when Germans (or Prussians) divided the country and stired local cultural sensibilities who weren't happy with this cultural construct.
Actually, I would say that French are more familiar with Flemish culture than with Walloon culture, because Flemish culture is more distinctive compared to French. Walloon culture is a bit unknown.



No, the Flemings are. Walloons are Gallic and Latin, like the French.

Walloons are very Frankish influenced, more so than the French actually if you except the north. Clovis (the first French king) was born in Tournai, the cradle of the Merovingians and Charlemagne was born supposedly between Liège and Aachen. Walloons are an admixture of both Franks and Gallo-romans.

[Ouistreham]

Actually, Belgium and Switzerland are genetically probably more homogeneous than any French, German, British or Italian region.


Do the french speakers play the Alphorn? :cool::thumb001:
In Switzerland? Of course they do!
The alphorn is also played in all French alpine districts (and even in the Vosges mountains).
It's a cherished symbol of French Alpine troops.
But since it's poorly usable in marching bands, they just display the instrument during military parades.

http://www.jeanlouiscouturier.com/images/site/documents/LACOSTE/Article_Cor_Naturel/27_BCA_Fanfare.png?width=618&height=380

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Fanfare_27BCA_01.JPG/1280px-Fanfare_27BCA_01.JPG

http://static.ladepeche.fr/content/media/image/zoom/2014/05/26/201405261649-full.jpg

[KawaiiKawaii]

I still don't get why language must be the alpha and omega of an ethnicity. Switzerland is divided in cantons, each being catholic or protestant. This used to be the main division in Switzerland, religion, not language, which is a more recent factor. Anyway, most people identify with their canton, not their language.

[Tchek]

I still don't get why language must be the alpha and omega of an ethnicity. Switzerland is divided in cantons, each being catholic or protestant. This used to be the main division in Switzerland, religion, not language, which is a more recent factor. Anyway, most people identify with their canton, not their language.

In Belgium, people identify with their cities. People from Liège, Antwerp, Brussels etc... don't care at all about what happens in other cities, and Brussels failed big time to be the cultural capital of the country.

[TheForeigner]

Hm, I agree language is not everything, but it's usually on of the main factors in determining ethnicity in the Old World.

[Grace O'Malley]

We can't really tell that yet, as no ancient Frankish genome has been tested.

Dutch people south of the Rhine are "more southern" compared to those from the north. That makes it very likely that the Belgians have a considerable Celtic/Gaulish and probably even Roman influence, compared to the "more purely Germanic" north Dutch people.

Belgians are probably a 3-way admixture between these groups.

I wish people would stop thinking people are purely Celtic or Germanic. I'm apparently a full Irish Celt but I get North Dutch as a first option on a lot of Gedmatch calculators so that is why I think these terms are mainly cultural. That's the conclusion I've come to looking at genetics anyway.

[JohnSmith]

I wish people would stop thinking people are purely Celtic or Germanic. I'm apparently a full Irish Celt but I get North Dutch as a first option on a lot of Gedmatch calculators so that is why I think these terms are mainly cultural. That's the conclusion I've come to looking at genetics anyway.

Your right,The terms are culturally,, many people on this forum are just not educated on the meanings.

[Rudel]

I still don't get why language must be the alpha and omega of an ethnicity.
Well, as it stands the (Romance) Swiss are French by blood, language and names. They're even French in their qualities and vices, though they won't knowledge it. They're distinguished by law and political identity, which is not to be under-estimated, rather than ethnicity à proprement parler.

[KawaiiKawaii]

Well, as it stands the (Romance) Swiss are French by blood, language and names. They're even French in their qualities and vices, though they won't knowledge it. They're distinguished by law and political identity, which is not to be under-estimated, rather than ethnicity à proprement parler.

There is nothing to acknowledge.

[Ulla]

All the ethnicities are a human and cultural creation. Some are more homogenous genetically though, but identity is related to the first not the latter.

[Ctwentysevenj]

I always think of the Swiss as Germanic speaking Celts hahaha. But there are French speaking Swiss, Italian speaking Swiss and then the German speaking Swiss.

I believe the Celts originated in an area which includes Switzerland

[TheForeigner]

Well, as it stands the (Romance) Swiss are French by blood, language and names. They're even French in their qualities and vices, though they won't knowledge it. They're distinguished by law and political identity, which is not to be under-estimated, rather than ethnicity à proprement parler.

What about Walloons?

[Rudel]

What about Walloons?

I feel the Swiss are the most similar to the French but at the same time the most distant, as they live in their bubble. The Walloons are completely intertwined with us.

[TheForeigner]

I feel the Swiss are the most similar to the French but at the same time the most distant, as they live in their bubble. The Walloons are completely intertwined with us.

Only by accident Walloons and Romands ended up outside France. Napoleon did annex these areas. Too bad France wasn't allowed to keep them, but without Flanders. Also Louis xv passed the opportunity of annexing what is now Belgium. What do you think of that?

[Rudel]

Only by accident Walloons and Romands ended up outside France. Napoleon did annex these areas. Too bad France wasn't allowed to keep them, but without Flanders. Also Louis xv passed the opportunity of annexing what is now Belgium. What do you think of that?
I think that Western bank of the Rhine looks quite tasty.

[KawaiiKawaii]

I feel the Swiss are the most similar to the French but at the same time the most distant, as they live in their bubble. The Walloons are completely intertwined with us.

I take this as something positive, seeing how outside the bubble everything seems chaotic and uncivilized.

[KawaiiKawaii]

Only by accident Walloons and Romands ended up outside France. Napoleon did annex these areas. Too bad France wasn't allowed to keep them, but without Flanders. Also Louis xv passed the opportunity of annexing what is now Belgium. What do you think of that?

Accident or not, it was the best outcome possible for us (don't know about Belgians). France is France, Switzerland is Switzerland, deal with it.

[Tchek]

No, the Flemings are. Walloons are Gallic and Latin, like the French.
wait, I didn't quote that... why is it appearing

I take this as something positive, seeing how outside the bubble everything seems chaotic and uncivilized.
It was a shock when I went from Mulhouse to Basel; the Swiss seemed to look down on the French... then when I changed my Euros into Francs suisse at the exchange thingie in Lausanne, I was looked at in a weird way.

[KawaiiKawaii]

It was a shock when I went from Mulhouse to Basel; the Swiss seemed to look down on the French... then when I changed my Euros into Francs suisse at the exchange thingie in Lausanne, I was looked at in a weird way.

We look down on everybody. Don't be shocked. It's not our fault foreigners come from foreign, poor and uncivilized places.

[TheForeigner]

We look down on everybody. Don't be shocked. It's not our fault foreigners come from foreign, poor and uncivilized places.

You outdo the French, English and many others in arrogance.:D

[TheForeigner]

Accident or not, it was the best outcome possible for us (don't know about Belgians). France is France, Switzerland is Switzerland, deal with it.

Why the best possible outcome? You belong with France. Walloons too, but not Alsace and Maritime Flanders.:)

[StonyArabia]

I like the Swiss no matter their ethnicity their good and kind hearted people

[caviezel]

it should be noted that swiss germans from Valais are genetically italians, I would never stress this enough.

[TheForeigner]

it should be noted that swiss germans from Valais are genetically italians, I would never stress this enough.

That is the part French and part German canton right? How come they are Germanized Italians north of the Alps?

[Rudel]

You outdo the French, English and many others in arrogance.:D
They don't outdo us, they're just the same.

[caviezel]

That is the part French and part German canton right? How come they are Germanized Italians north of the Alps?they were linguistically germanized in XII century A.D. if I recall correctly.

[TheForeigner]

they were linguistically germanized in XII century A.D. if I recall correctly.

Yes, but Frenchmen and not Italians. They still had to actually mix with new German settlers too. Might be that the common Celtic substratum of Alpine peoples obscures that. Germans there would be in part Celtic and Latins there more so.

[caviezel]

Yes, but Frenchmen and not Italians. They still had to actually mix with new German settlers too. Might be that the common Celtic substratum of Alpine peoples obscures that. Germans there would be in part Celtic and Latins there more so.they were speaking the same language spoken in Ticino and the germanization was cultural, not demographic.

[TheForeigner]

they were speaking the same language spoken in Ticino and the germanization was cultural, not demographic.

Any source for this? I'm quite sure it was all French and still half French. Also there was a migration of Germans there in the Middle Ages.

[caviezel]

Any source for this? I'm quite sure it was all French and still half French. Also there was a migration of Germans there in the Middle Ages.those swiss germans who cluster with swiss italians genetically are a dead giveaway.

[TheForeigner]

those swiss germans who cluster with swiss italians genetically are a dead giveaway.

Just with them?

[Leto]

I wonder if Italian migrants in Switzerland have blended into the Swiss Italian minority. Or are they still a distinct group? It reminds me of Sri Lanka, there are native Tamils and descendents of Tamil migrants there. They are still separate, however not as much as they used to be.

[TheForeigner]

I wonder if Italian migrants in Switzerland have blended into the Swiss Italian minority. Or are they still a distinct group? It reminds me of Sri Lanka, there are native Tamils and descendents of Tamil migrants there. They are still separate, however not as much as they used to be.

I think they migrated primarily outside the small Italian speaking area and they probably assimilated with whatever language group is dominant where they live, if they did at all.

[Leto]

I think they migrated primarily outside the small Italian speaking area and they probably assimilated with whatever language group is dominant where they live, if they did at all.
Well, the thing is that they are free to use Italian, because it is an official language in Switzerland. They simply don't have to abandon it.

[TheForeigner]

Well, the thing is that they are free to use Italian, because it is an official language in Switzerland. They simply don't have to abandon it.

Hm, I thought each canton has it's language policy.

[Leto]

Hm, I thought each canton has it's language policy.
Well, there are four national languages, but their usage might be different depending on a canton. Let's wait for Kawaii, he knows better.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

define ethnicity

[TheForeigner]

define ethnicity

A group of people with common ancestry, language, religion(not necessarily), traditions, customs, culture and history.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

A group of people with common ancestry, language, religion(not necessarily), traditions, customs, culture and history.

Well Belgians and Swiss have religion, traditions, customs, culture and history and ancestry.

[Leto]

define ethnicity
Personal self-identification.:rolleyes:

[TheForeigner]

Well Belgians and Swiss have religion, traditions, customs, culture and history and ancestry.

Some Swiss are Protestants and other Catholics. Belgium has a political conflict between Walloons and Flemings. Belgium only exists since 1830 and there were no ''Belgians'' before that. I doubt that either groups have common national cultures.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Some Swiss are Protestants and other Catholics. Belgium has a political conflict between Walloons and Flemings. Belgium only exists since 1830 and there were no ''Belgians'' before that. I doubt that either groups have common national cultures.

You expect everyone in a country to be the same religion? Wow so Americans have been around longer than Belgians. And of course Belgium has a national culture. Switzerland too.

[TheForeigner]

You expect everyone in a country to be the same religion? Wow so Americans have been around longer than Belgians. And of course Belgium has a national culture. Switzerland too.

You clearly don't understand what an ethnicity is. There is no such thing as an ethnicity with more than one language and with conflicted identity issues.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

You clearly don't understand what an ethnicity is. There is no such thing as an ethnicity with more than one language and with conflicted identity issues.

Oh I think I understand. Do you think American is an ethnicity?

[TheForeigner]

Oh I think I understand. Do you think American is an ethnicity?

No, but that proves nothing. What are Flemings and Walloons, if the Belgians are one ethnicity? And what is Flemish nationalism then?:)

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

No, but that proves nothing. What are Flemings and Walloons, if the Belgians are one ethnicity? And what is Flemish nationalism then?:)

Okay maybe you're right. Ethnicity is a loose term in my opinion. It's always confused me when someone says ethnicity. I cannot tell if it has more to do with culture or blood. When someones asks me what my ethnicity is I just say I don't have one.

[TheForeigner]

Okay maybe you're right. Ethnicity is a loose term in my opinion. It's always confused me when someone says ethnicity. I cannot tell if it has more to do with culture or blood. When someones asks me what my ethnicity is I just say I don't have one.

It has to do with both culture and blood and you being mixed, as I am too, makes it natural to think you don't have a proper ethnicity. We're Euro-mutts.:)

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

It has to do with both culture and blood and you being mixed, as I am too, makes it natural to think you don't have a proper ethnicity. We're Euro-mutts.:)

Yep.

[Tchek]

You expect everyone in a country to be the same religion? Wow so Americans have been around longer than Belgians. And of course Belgium has a national culture. Switzerland too.

Americans have been around longer than most European countries if you base the birth of a nation by the outcome of the French Revolution or the Congress of Vienna and other treaties of the 19th century.

Before that, Belgium had a long history of being southern Netherlands except entities (Liège) attached to the Holy Roman Empire, back to Lotharingia and even before that, Austrasia, and even before, the Belgae. So I wouldn't considered Belgium as "fake" a country as people make it to be. The shape and the size are just arguable.

[KawaiiKawaii]

Well, there are four national languages, but their usage might be different depending on a canton. Let's wait for Kawaii, he knows better.

Each canton has an official (or two, or even three in the case of Grisons) language. Most Italian immigrants didn't go to Ticino or Grisons, they went to German or French speaking areas, so they had to learn either French or German.

[Wild North]

Can an ethnicity be multilingual?

In Switzerland for instance, there´s 1 Germanic, and 3 Romance ethno-lingual groups.

[TheForeigner]

Can an ethnicity be multilingual?

In Switzerland for instance, there´s 1 Germanic, and 3 Romance ethno-lingual groups.

Very true, but at the same time one can point to modern Celtic peoples who have as native languages both English or French and their respective Celtic languages, although that is a different situation entirely.

[TheForeigner]

Is it true that part of Valais was once Italian speaking, Kawai?

[Wild North]

Very true, but at the same time one can point to modern Celtic peoples who have as native languages both English or French and their respective Celtic languages, although that is a different situation entirely.

Here we focus much on linguistics, to define ethnicity. In Switzerland, again, German is very different from French, Italian and Romansh etc. If language is a primary criteria to define ethnicity, then we could say that there are two "meta-ethnicities" in Switzerland, one Germanic and one Romance. Although all these languages belongs to the Indo-European mega-group.