Are Jews Middle-Eastern?

[Electronic God-Man]

Please do discuss. :coffee:

[Moshe]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9859/kkkyw.jpg
;)

[Electronic God-Man]

Moshe, please stay on-topic.

[The Lawspeaker]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9859/kkkyw.jpg
;)
Alright. Since you like offending Europeans:

http://brabosh.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/ewige1.jpg

[Ibericus]

Yes. Culturally and genetically

[Cynodon]

Some are. Jewish communities of Middle-Eastern countries, for example.

[Moshe]

Moshe, please stay on-topic.

- Zip it goy:cool:

[Moshe]

Alright. Since you like offending Europeans:

http://brabosh.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/ewige1.jpg

- Pathetic.

[Electronic God-Man]

Some are. Jewish communities of Middle-Eastern countries, for example.

I'm going to move to Lebanon so that I can be considered Lebanese.

[Moshe]

I'm going to move to Lebanon so that I can be considered Lebanese.

- Good for you:thumb001:

[Smaland]

The appropriate question to ask is, 'Are the Jews the descendants of Esau?' According to the 1905 edition of the Jewish encyclopedia, this is true to a major extent.

[Cynodon]

I'm going to move to Lebanon so that I can be considered Lebanese.

Just like for your remote ancestors who left Europe and became Americans, in fact. :thumb001:

[Pallantides]

It's definitly a big part of their heritage.

[Tabiti]

Sepharadic ones are Middle Eastern genetically, while Ashkenazi's are ME mostly culturally (if we can conclude that the jewish culture is strongly ME).

[Svanhild]

Jew-focused discussions make boards look lowbrow and trashy. My proposal is to get rid of these threads and that Moshe troll at one go.

[Ibericus]

Sepharadic ones are Middle Eastern genetically, while Ashkenazi's are ME mostly culturally (if we can conclude that the jewish culture is strongly ME).
Wrong. Ashkenazi are also genetically middle-easterns

[poiuytrewq0987]

Jew-focused discussions make boards look lowbrow and trashy. My proposal is to get rid of these threads and that Moshe troll at one go.

I second this. I don't think I've ever seen this forum filled with so much vomit before since this Moshe fellow came along.

[Tabiti]

Wrong. Ashkenazi are also genetically middle-easterns
Not all of them. Jews aren't that homogenous and unmixed as you may think. There were non ME tribes who accepted the Judaism, same with Christianity.
However I'm not a jewish specialist. I've always left that precious knowledge to the more devoted antisemites;)

[Pallantides]

Many of the Ashkenazi Jews on 23andMe seem to land between Northern, Eastern and Southern Europe on the PCA map, so some of them obviously have European admixture.

[Ibericus]

Many of the Ashkenazi Jews on 23andMe seem to land between Northern, Eastern and Southern Europe on the PCA map, so some of them obviously have European admixture.
Thats what we talked the other day : At 23andMe there are only 3 groups, thats the reason why. If we look at the genetic studies done in Ashkenazis :

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/420/priceplotsm4.png



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/Sx-pMth-rnI/AAAAAAAACEI/VKsn_nlOLRU/s1600/fig2.jpg


AJA = Ashkenazi Jewish Americans
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/696/jew1x.jpg



http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4954/jewm.gif

[The Lawspeaker]

I think that they have some European admixture (but so do f.i African Americans or some people in the East Indies) but that alone doesn't make them European.
Their culture, language and history and most importantly religion make it pretty evident that they are not European and as a matter of fact they are our self-proclaimed enemies. Why ? Not because of Hitler but because of how the Jews themselves call us: gojim. We are infidels to them and they themselves the Chosen People. It's essentially a lot like Islam's perception of us.

[Heimmacht]

You know, the thing that sickens me is that they think that they should be treated in a special way because of the fact they are jewish, pathetic really.

[Pallantides]

Thats what we talked the other day : At 23andMe there are only 3 groups, thats the reason why. If we look at the genetic studies done in Ashkenazis :


...
That's only the Ancestry Painting, the PCA map wich I was referring to is represented with more than three groups.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/750/pcaworld.jpg
An Arab would land in the Near Eastern cluster.

[Ibericus]

...
That's only the Ancestry Painting, the PCA map wich I was referring to is represented with more than three groups.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/750/pcaworld.jpg
An Arab would land in the Near Eastern cluster.
Yes, but inside the Near Eastern group there are only 3 groups : Bedouin, Druze and Palestinian :

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5435/347e.png

[Pallantides]

Yes, but inside the Near Eastern group there are only 3 groups : Bedouin, Druze and Palestinian :

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5435/347e.png

That doesn't make much difference, besides Palestinians are pretty much pure Semitic stock anyway.

[Ibericus]

well yes, but Ashekanzis have on average only 12.5% European admixture :

"The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with "relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim," and a total admixture estimate "very similar to Motulsky's average estimate of 12.5%." This supported the finding that "Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors.""

Hammer, M. F.; A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir (May 9 2000). "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 97: 6769. doi:10.1073/pnas.100115997. PMID 10801975.

[Pallantides]

Maybe, but the American and and European Jews I have encountered on 23andMe definitely have a lot if not more European ancestry than Middle Eastern.

They also look as European as Scarlett Johanssonn who is part Jew.
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/11/23-End%20of%20Month/scarlett_johansson.jpg

[SwordoftheVistula]

Definitely Middle Eastern:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/742430.stm

They may have their differences but Jews and Arabs share a common genetic heritage that stretches back thousands of years.

The striking similarities in their biology have just been revealed in a study of over 1,300 men in almost 30 countries worldwide.

Scientists compared the men's Y chromosomes, the tiny structures within cells that carry the genetic instructions that tell a developing foetus to become a boy.

The comparison also showed that Jews have successfully resisted having their gene pool diluted, despite having lived among non-Jews for thousands of years in what is commonly known as the Diaspora - the time since 556 BC when Jews migrated out of Palestine.

Genetic signatures

Throughout human history, alterations have occurred in the sequence of chemical bases that make up the DNA in the Y chromosome, leaving variations that can be pinpointed with modern genetic techniques.

Related populations carry the same specific variations. In this way, scientists can track descendants of large populations and determine their common ancestors.

The study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese.

These signatures were significantly different from non-Jewish men outside of the Middle East. This means Jews and Arabs have more in common with each other, genetically speaking, than they do with any of the wider communities in which they might live.

Good opportunity

Dr Mark Jobling of Leicester University, UK, one of the authors of the new study, told the BBC: "The kind of DNA we have used to analyse this question is the human Y chromosome. This represents only 2% of our genetic material and it is passed down from father to son.

"This makes it particularly interesting to use in a study of Jewish populations because Jewishness is passed down from the mother to children - it is maternally inherited. So using a paternally inherited piece of DNA gives us a good opportunity to see the signal of mixture with other populations if this has occurred.

"The fact that we don't see it suggests that after the Diaspora these populations really have managed to maintain their Jewish heritage.

Dr Jobling dismissed the idea that the study could have any political implications. "It seems that in many of these situations where groups are in conflict with each other they are likely to be pretty much genetically indistinguishable, and this factor, to the peoples involved in these conflicts, clearly isn't the point and isn't likely to change their behaviour very much."

[Ibericus]

Maybe, but the American and and European Jews I have encountered on 23andMe definitely have a lot if not more European ancestry than Middle Eastern.

They also look as European as Scarlett Johanssonn who is part Jew.
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/11/23-End%20of%20Month/scarlett_johansson.jpg

Yes, but Scarlett is half Danish, it's not the same. The majority of jews are not half-european or more, like Scarlett.

[Cato]

A sandnigger is a sandnigger.

[Cato]

Maybe, but the American and and European Jews I have encountered on 23andMe definitely have a lot if not more European ancestry than Middle Eastern.

They also look as European as Scarlett Johanssonn who is part Jew.
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/11/23-End%20of%20Month/scarlett_johansson.jpg

Thanks to such things as a good rhinoplasty.

[Guapo]

Who cares. I'd tap this jewess ass, she definitely wouldn't be resting on Sabbath.

http://i.fanpix.net/images/orig/3/x/3xej1hq3mssmjehm.jpg

[Pallantides]

Yes, but Scarlett is half Danish, it's not the same. The majority of jews are not half-european or more, like Scarlett.
I know she is half-Danish
The ones on 23andMe also have European ancestry, guess they are pretend Jews.

[Ibericus]

I know she is half-Danish
The ones on 23andMe also have European ancestry, guess they are pretend Jews.
Then why you post a picture of Scarlett as if she was the average Jew ?

[Beorn]

http://i.fanpix.net/images/orig/3/x/3xej1hq3mssmjehm.jpg

She looks like your typical Jewess who is one temper tantrum away from morphing into a Golem, ready to eat your children and implant your parents with chips and tracking devices.

However...

This I'd tap harder than a carpenter on price work.


http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1ubx4.gif


Keep these little beauties coming, mate :thumb001:

[Pallantides]

Then why you post a picture of Scarlett as if she was the average Jew ?

The ones I have seen the pictures of on 23andMe look as European as she does.


Some more Jewish women:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/Projectilist/Natalie_Portman.jpg
http://zoesknittingbag.typepad.co.uk/my_weblog/images/lauren_bacall_scanned_photo.jpg
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?40,file=7488,filename=israel5.jpg
http://media.divinecaroline.com/ext/article_images2/israeli_female_soldiers/israeli_female_soldiers_idf_women09.jpg
http://www.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/girls-israel-army.jpg
http://patriotroom.com/images/upload/IDF_Babe_2.jpg
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7OcG_pH5mtUCUVJyhs02paGD-xTfQ58aWXSy2A-zXi3hy6m87Ir8dES-VNzAY6ZCgTp4uaNprEkY14_OL14v8w
http://www.rachelpapo.com/images/serial/serial15.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l780BaM_siw/SWFXAkTqEWI/AAAAAAAAAgc/xV3COHiBpno/s400/IDF2.jpg
http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image2/israeli-idf-babe-4.jpg
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3855/israel27sn6.jpg
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/6598/f18685111179327266zo.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9747/idfwomen.jpg
http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/9039/473550809vylvuiph0tw.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8452/idfgirl.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

Yes there are Jews who look like Europeans but there are also Jews who don't. They lived in Europe and intermixed with Europeans and as a result of that, the Jews inherited European genes. Big shocker.

[Mitra]

You need to define Middle Eastern. Genetically, Jews are more closely related to Armenians & Kurds. Are Armenians and Kurds Middle Easterners? Also, remember that there has been an influx of African genes into some Arab territories for over a thousand years from East Africa. What many people think of as being the typical Arab look is really East Mediterranid-Semitic with Bantu admixture.

[Ibericus]

The ones I have seen the pictures of on 23andMe look as European as she does.


Some more Jewish women:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/Projectilist/Natalie_Portman.jpg
http://zoesknittingbag.typepad.co.uk/my_weblog/images/lauren_bacall_scanned_photo.jpg
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?40,file=7488,filename=israel5.jpg
http://media.divinecaroline.com/ext/article_images2/israeli_female_soldiers/israeli_female_soldiers_idf_women09.jpg
http://www.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/girls-israel-army.jpg
http://patriotroom.com/images/upload/IDF_Babe_2.jpg
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7OcG_pH5mtUCUVJyhs02paGD-xTfQ58aWXSy2A-zXi3hy6m87Ir8dES-VNzAY6ZCgTp4uaNprEkY14_OL14v8w
http://www.rachelpapo.com/images/serial/serial15.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l780BaM_siw/SWFXAkTqEWI/AAAAAAAAAgc/xV3COHiBpno/s400/IDF2.jpg
http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image2/israeli-idf-babe-4.jpg
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3855/israel27sn6.jpg
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/6598/f18685111179327266zo.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9747/idfwomen.jpg
http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/9039/473550809vylvuiph0tw.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8452/idfgirl.jpg

Some may look white because of european mix, but I see also some clear non-white looking girls.
Plus genetically , on average, they are not european even for the white-looking ones. Like I said, Ashkenazis have on average 12.5% of european admixture.

[la bombe]

Maybe, but the American and and European Jews I have encountered on 23andMe definitely have a lot if not more European ancestry than Middle Eastern.


Where are you getting this from? From everything I've read about Jewish genetics, they are actually quite a homogeneous bunch and not particularly genetically close to Europeans. And until very recently, Ashkenazi Jews were extremely endogamous so idk about this alleged huge amount of non-Jewish European ancestry. I'm sharing with some Jews on 23andme as well, and they tend to be genetically distant from everyone else I'm sharing with (which for the most part is white Americans and Europeans), but they're all extremely close to one another.


Who cares. I'd tap this jewess ass, she definitely wouldn't be resting on Sabbath.

http://i.fanpix.net/images/orig/3/x/3xej1hq3mssmjehm.jpg

She looks that way thanks to the wonder (or horror, depending on how you look at it) of plastic surgery anyway

http://i11.tinypic.com/2n1dzt3.jpg

[Cato]

Apricity males, let's convert to Judaism, have aliyah to Israel, join the IDF, and go wenching! :D

(Cool story, bro!)

[Beorn]

I'm in. Jews get all the pussy. Just see the ones who posted here for proooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooofffffffff

[Pallantides]

I'm sharing with some Jews on 23andme as well, and they tend to be genetically distant from everyone else I'm sharing with (which for the most part is white Americans and Europeans), but they're all extremely close to one another.



I score low with the ones who are listed as being fully Jewish, but the ones who claim Jewish as part of their ancestry is more avarage.


Americans/Europeans with listed Jewish descent
74.38%
74.35%
74.30%
74.27%


Pure Jewish ancestry

74.10%
73.99%
73.89%
73.83%

but I have a negative mideast score on McD's BGA so I guess it's no wonder I score so low with them:

Europe 94.4%
Mideast -1.0%
S. Asia 6.7%
Oceania -0.7%
America 0.8%
Africa -0.2%
E. Asia 0.1%



It would be intresting to see how much higher a Jews mideast score is than the avarge European score of 4-8%(Northern Europeans score lower since they have less input from Neolithic Middle Eastern farmers.)
I think McD's BGA and global plots are far more accurate than 23andMe at detecting it.

[Ibericus]

Scarlett also had some surgery, even thoug she is half Danish :

http://seriouslyrad.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/scarlettplastic.jpg

[Cato]

Scarlett also had some surgery, even thoug she is half Danish :

http://seriouslyrad.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/scarlettplastic.jpg

The nose knows what she had done to her. :cool:

[Kazimiera]

---> moved to History and Ethnogenesis

[itschac]

YES

[itschac]

YES! YES! YES!

[Smeagol]

No, Ashkenazi Jews cluster with South Italians, but not with any Middle Eastern Population.

[Smeagol]

well yes, but Ashekanzis have on average only 12.5% European admixture :

"The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with "relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim," and a total admixture estimate "very similar to Motulsky's average estimate of 12.5%." This supported the finding that "Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors.""

This is only Y-DNA.

''A 2010 study by Bray et al., using SNP microarray techniques and linkage analysis found that when assuming Druze and Palestinian Arabs populations to represent the reference to world Jewry ancestor genome, between 35 to 55 percent of the modern Ashkenazi genome can possibly be of European origin''

[itschac]

Genetic research only came once again prove that the Jews have Azquenazi genetic familiarity with their Arab brothers, so they are the Middle East

[Smeagol]

Genetic research only came once again prove that the Jews have Azquenazi genetic familiarity with their Arab brothers, so they are the Middle East

They're 35-55% European, so they're not Middle Eastern, and they have nothing to do with Arabs either.

[Ianus]

Depend, Askhenazi and Sephardi are Europeans, Mizhrai more ME.