1 Year Maidan Revolution

[Shkembe Chorba]

Ukraine's pro-democracy Euromaidan Revolution - one year on

Protests began in late November 2013 after then-President Yanukovych scrapped a key EU deal

Ukraine has this week marked the first anniversary of protests which sparked a revolution and plunged the country into war. The anniversary has sparked considerable soul-searching in Ukraine as the population assesses the historic changes which have taken place in the country over the past 12 months.

One year ago, Ukraine's pro-democracy revolution began here in Kyiv – initially in response to news that the country was abandoning plans to sign a deal bringing it closer to EU. The protests escalated throughout the winter months before culminating in the fall of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych's government – but not before over 100 protesters had been killed.

The fall of the pro-Russian Yanukovych regime marked the triumph of the Euromaidan protests – but within days the Kremlin had responded to the loss of its ally by invading Crimea. Kremlin agents have since played a key role in stirring insurgency in east Ukraine, with Russia accused of sending weapons and fighters across the border to prop up breakaway republics and destabilize Ukraine. The conflict has done much to dampen the optimism generated by the success of the Euromaidan protest movement, but political analysts argue that the pro-democracy protests nevertheless managed to change the geopolitical path of Ukraine.

Yevhen Magda, Political Analyst: "Euromaidan has proved that Ukraine does not want to be a grey zone, it wants to be a state. And for Putin it was a huge challenge. I have reasonable grounds to say that the occupation of Crimea and riots in Ukraine's Donbas region were planned by Russia before Euromaidan happened. Maybe it was aimed at the presidential elections in 2015. Everything is very difficult there, but they managed to do it very easily. That is why I think it is a challenge. (Russian President Vladimir) Putin perceives the situation in Ukraine as a challenge. That is why he took the unprecedented steps of depriving Ukraine of real sovereignty."

For many ordinary Ukrainians the past year has been a time of heightened patriotic sentiments, with many reporting a much stronger sense of national identity as a result of the Euromaidan protests and the subsequent Russian invasion. The pro-democracy, pro-European position championed by protesters in Kyiv last winter has helped many Ukrainians to define what differentiates the country from Russia.

Vira Solovyova, Kyiv resident: "(Euromaidan is) the awakening of consciousness of Ukrainians, the unity of the nation, and I hope the birth of the nation. But we cannot relax. There is a lot of work ahead of us."

Vitaly Chafonov, Kyiv resident: "I think it's a very remarkable event in the history of Ukraine. I would say that a new era has started. The level of consciousness has increased. People started realizing who they are, which state they are from, which nation they are from."

The Euromaidan Revolution is already part of Ukrainian history, but many believe that it is unfinished history.

Demands for justice have yet to be met, with no senior figures called to account for the deaths of protesters. President Poroshenko responded to hecklers on the Euromaidan anniversary by announcing that those who died during the protests would be recognized with state honours as ‘Heroes of Ukraine.'

However, for millions of Ukrainians real change would mean not only honouring the dead but punishing the guilty.

http://uatoday.tv/society/maidan-393061.html

http://static.tumblr.com/2da155c94beea6253b1efaaf956495d8/slastdn/cP0n1wdbp/tumblr_static_projectmaidan-banner.png

[Shkembe Chorba]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2_jAATCYAASSW0.jpg

:)

[Leto]

Я поражаюсь просто. Некоторые тут по-прежнему верят в "сближение с Западом", "перемены к лучшему" и "борьбу за территориальную целостность" Украины. Причём эти некоторые даже не живут на Украине. Неужели не понятно, что там за "революция" была и к чему она привела?:picard1:

[Ars Moriendi]

Down with Banderas.

[Leto]

Down with Banderas.
Down with delusional US-puppets, too.

[Leto]

A nice picture for you guys. President Petro (actually Pyotr) Waltzman;)
http://2.firepic.org/2/images/2014-11/22/xfrdupu1wcrk.jpg (http://firepic.org/)
There are rumors that he is 1/2 Jewish.

[Siberyak]

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/jewlootimf.jpg

[Veneda]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2_jAATCYAASSW0.jpg

:)

Banderites burn USA flag during the march of Ukrainian Insurgent Army, Lvov, 14th October 2014 :bored:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHOlIx8WVFs

[epirot]

Banderites burn USA flag during the march of Ukrainian Insurgent Army, Lvov, 14th October 2014 :bored:


Same do the Ustase in Croatia. Nobody notices. It is for internal consumptions. In Greece USA let greeks let off steam, by burning USA flags now and then, they are so big and powerful that they laugh watching those monkeys thninking that they resist anyone. Especially banderovci and greek anarchists have been USA's best lapdogs.

[Guapo]

So this revolution was jewish inspired like the october revolution.

[Methmatician]

So this revolution was jewish inspired like the october revolution.
Yes, the Jewish-Zionists of the CIA infiltrated the Ukrainian (maloruski) government using their agents of International Jewry in Ukraine (malorusija). Oy vey :rolleyes2:

Unsurprisingly anti-Maidan seems to have many anti-semitic conspiracy theorists among them.

[Guapo]

Yes, the Jewish-Zionists of the CIA infiltrated the Ukrainian (maloruski) government using their agents of International Jewry in Ukraine (malorusija). Oy vey :rolleyes2:

Unsurprisingly anti-Maidan seems to have many anti-semitic conspiracy theorists among them.
Calm down, cultural muslim. I am going by Sojourner's and Siberyak's posts. I could care less about shitty Ukraine.

[Methmatician]

Calm down, cultural muslim. I am going by Sojourner's and Siberyak's posts. I could care less about shitty Ukraine.
Were you asking a serious question or were you pissing?

[Guapo]

Were you asking a serious question or were you pissing?

Can you read? Go quote Sojourner or Siberyak instead. Annoying muslim.

[Methmatician]

Can you read? Go quote Sojourner or Siberyak instead. Annoying muslim.
Yeah, I can. I read your post and it was in line with Siberyak's and Soujourners. I quoted yours because it was at the bottom, after I had finished reading the other posts.

[Guapo]

Yeah, I can. I read your post and it was in line with Siberyak's and Soujourners. I quoted yours because it was at the bottom, after I had finished reading the other posts.

Bullshit, now get lost Muhamed.

[Guapo]

That's right, thumb me down like a little bosniak faggot that you are. Go quote them instead, you annoying islamic parasite.

[Vlach]

And Ianukovic isnt killed yet. :(

[Shkembe Chorba]

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/jewlootimf.jpg

So is it Fascist Junta or Jewish Organization? You seem very confused how to call the people who want an independent state of Ukraine.

[glass]

Yes, the Jewish-Zionists of the CIA infiltrated the Ukrainian (maloruski) government using their agents of International Jewry in Ukraine (malorusija). Oy vey :rolleyes2:

Unsurprisingly anti-Maidan seems to have many anti-semitic conspiracy theorists among them.
jews do not really belong to country they reside, so jews easily become agents of foreign influence.
For example, many "foreign" soviet spies were "native" jews too.

[Leto]

Yes, the Jewish-Zionists of the CIA infiltrated the Ukrainian (maloruski) government using their agents of International Jewry in Ukraine (malorusija). Oy vey :rolleyes2:

Unsurprisingly anti-Maidan seems to have many anti-semitic conspiracy theorists among them.
You're an idiot. On the one hand you say that "all nationalism is evil", but on the other hand you actively support Ukrainian fascism which is a very twisted from of nationalism. Typical libtard behavior (double standards).

[Leto]

So is it Fascist Junta or Jewish Organization? You seem very confused how to call the people who want an independent state of Ukraine.
You are dependent, moron. :picard1:

[Aviator]

That's right, thumb me down like a little bosniak faggot that you are. Go quote them instead, you annoying islamic parasite.

Little Meth head is a Bosnian? :rotfl:

[Leto]

And Ianukovic isnt killed yet. :(
The government in Kiev must be put on trial as war criminals. First they illegally seized power inthe country, then they started killing innocent civilians. Is this "democracy" to you? Over 4000 people have been killed in Eastern Ukraine so far. Many of them were women, old people and children.

[Vlach]

The government in Kiev must be put on trial as war criminals. First they illegally seized power inthe country, then they started killing innocent civilians. Is this "democracy" to you?

And Ianukovic dont?

[Leto]

And Ianukovic dont?
He was elected by people and he didn't kill anyone. I don't care for him, he might be an oligarch, but he is certainly not a war criminal.

[Vlach]

He was elected by people and he didn't kill anyone. I don't care for him, he might be an oligarch, but he is certainly not a war criminal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wb5ODzfBNI

[Methmatician]

You're an idiot. On the one hand you say that "all nationalism is evil", but on the other hand you actively support Ukrainian fascism which is a very twisted from of nationalism. Typical libtard behavior (double standards).
I think you're going to have to show my libtard brain where I said I supported fascism in Ukraine otherwise you're talking out of your arse (again).

[Methmatician]

Little Meth head is a Bosnian? :rotfl:
Bosnian-Montenegrin-Aussie.

[Leto]

I think you're going to have to show my libtard brain where I said I supported fascism in Ukraine otherwise you're talking out of your arse (again).
LOL. The "independence" of Ukraine you support (and I know you do) is a US-backed fascism against all "dissenters". You get fired in modern Ukraine if you say something against the government and its policy. It is a fact. A lot of people have been intimidated or dismissed for that.

[Methmatician]

jews do not really belong to country they reside, so jews easily become agents of foreign influence.
For example, many "foreign" soviet spies were "native" jews too.
Been reading too much 'alternative' material lately? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion) :rolleyes2:

It's laughable that people here are holding onto 19th century conspiracy theories in the 21st century.

[Leto]

..
I bet it was designed by foreign secret services, not by Yanukovich. Do not be so naive. The whole "revolution" was a pure US-product.

[Methmatician]

LOL. The "independence" of Ukraine you support (and I know you do) is a US-backed fascism against all "dissenters". You get fired in modern Ukraine if you say something against the government and its policy.
More conspiracy theories? :rolleyes2: Why don't you show me how the 'independence' was backed by the US and is synonymous with fascism.

It is a fact.
I'm going to need to see proof of this 'fact'.

A lot of people have been intimidated or dismissed for that.
Yes they have, but not by the government. I could understand if you said Ukrainian citizens had done so but the government does not simply fire people for criticising the government.

[Vlach]

I bet it was designed by foreign secret services, not by Yanukovich. Do not be so naive. The whole "revolution" was a pure US-product.

Hahaha, and of course, Yanukovic and Novorossia are like virgin angels which are raped by evil americans and ukrainans....

[Methmatician]

Hahaha, and of course, Yanukovic and Novorossia are like virgin angels which are raped by evil americans and ukrainans....
They don't seem to read the news that much. (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/7/searching-ukrainemissing.html)

[Leto]

I'm not gonna argue, since you aren't inclined to believe me or people with a similar opinion. One thing is clear: you know SHIT about the actual situation in Ukraine and its origins.
Ukraine is ruined, it's a whole lot of mess now, nothing more. And those bastards who call themselves "authorities" are responsible for that. Of course, the US and the EU are involved as well. It's not a conspiracy theory, it just lies on the surface. The US needs another cold war. It simply cannot be content, as long as there is someone that questions its omnipotence. Just listen to Obama, he has always openly said the US will dominate the world and anyone who disagrees with them will eventually become an outcast, an enemy of "democracy". Only the blind cannot see it.

[Methmatician]

I'm not gonna argue, since you aren't inclined to believe me or people with a similar opinion. One thing is clear: you know SHIT about the actual situation in Ukraine and its origins.
Ukraine is ruined, it's a whole lot of mess now, nothing more. And those bastards who call themselves "authorities" are responsible for that. Of course, the US and the EU are involved as well. It's not a conspiracy theory, it just lies on the surface. The US needs another cold war. It simply cannot be content, as long as there is someone that questions its omnipotence. Just listen to Obama, he has always openly said the US will dominate the world and anyone who disagrees with them will eventually become an outcast, an enemy of "democracy". Only the blind cannot see it.
Стрелков признал ответственность за военные действия на Украине (http://lenta.ru/news/2014/11/20/strelkov/)

I kind of thought you were smarter than this, Soujourner, but it looks like you've fallen prey to conspiracy theories and propaganda.

[Leto]

Стрелков признал ответственность за военные действия на Украине (http://lenta.ru/news/2014/11/20/strelkov/)
Признал... И что? Они, наверное, должны были сложить оружие и сдаться на растерзание.

«Спусковой крючок войны все-таки нажал я. Если бы наш отряд не перешел границу, в итоге все бы кончилось, как в Харькове, как в Одессе. Было бы несколько десятков убитых, обожженных, арестованных. И на этом бы кончилось», — заявил Стрелков, повторив, что «практически маховик войны, которая до сих пор идет, запустил наш отряд».

По словам бывшего командующего, его отряд «смешал все карты», начав воевать всерьез и уничтожать «диверсионные группы правосеков». «И я несу личную ответственность за то, что там происходит. За то, что до сих пор Донецк обстреливается, — я несу ответственность. За то, что Славянск оставлен, конечно, я несу ответственность», — заключил он.

Комментируя начало конфликта, Стрелков отметил, что изначально воевать не хотела ни одна из сторон: ни ополченцы, ни украинские силовики. «Первые дни в Славянске и мы, и они крайне осторожно подходили к применению оружия, — рассказал он. — Долгое время мы не трогали их блокпосты, и они не проявляли агрессии». Атаки на Славянск, по его словам, последовали после того, как украинская сторона уверилась в том, что в конфликт напрямую не вмешается Россия.

[Vlach]

I'm not gonna argue, since you aren't inclined to believe me or people with a similar opinion. One thing is clear: you know SHIT about the actual situation in Ukraine and its origins.
Ukraine is ruined, it's a whole lot of mess now, nothing more. And those bastards who call themselves "authorities" are responsible for that. Of course, the US and the EU are involved as well. It's not a conspiracy theory, it just lies on the surface. The US needs another cold war. It simply cannot be content, as long as there is someone that questions its omnipotence. Just listen to Obama, he has always openly said the US will dominate the world and anyone who disagrees with them will eventually become an outcast, an enemy of "democracy". Only the blind cannot see it.

Russia need it to. Russia started more wars like this from Ukraine ;) . Transnistria, Ossetia, because is a a way to stop this countries ( Ukraine,Moldova,Georgia) to become a part of Nato/EU

[Leto]

Russia need it to. Russia started more wars like this from Ukraine ;) . Transnistria, Ossetia, because is a a way to stop this countries ( Ukraine,Moldova,Georgia) to become a part of Nato/EU
Of course, we don't need NATO near our borders. The US government once promised Gorbachev there would be no further NATO extention eastward. So what? They turned out to be liars.

[Methmatician]

Признал... И что? Они, наверное, должны были сложить оружие и сдаться на растерзание.
So what? You've been blaming the conflict on Donbass on the EU and US based on no evidence. I show you a man admitting that he had something to do with the conflict in Donbass and you make more excuses as to why he was justified in helping start a war. You're a hypocrite Soujourner. You tell me things a 'facts' yet show me no proof. I show evidence that the US and EU was not to blame for the conflict in eastern Ukraine and you brush it off as if it was obvious. Get your story straight and your shit together. And you still haven't showed me where I said I supported fascism in Ukraine.

[Vlach]

Of course, we don't need NATO near our borders. The US government once promised Gorbachev there would be no further NATO extention eastward. So what? They turned out to be liars.

This is not a good excuse to start wars everywhere and to pretend to be the angels of europe.

[Leto]

So what? You've been blaming the conflict on Donbass on the EU and US based on no evidence. I show you a man admitting that he had something to do with the conflict in Donbass and you make more excuses as to why he was justified in helping start a war. You're a hypocrite Soujourner. You tell me things a 'facts' yet show me no proof. I show evidence that the US and EU was not to blame for the conflict in eastern Ukraine and you brush it off as if it was obvious. Get your story straight and your shit together. And you still haven't showed me where I said I supported fascism in Ukraine.
Watch this. I agree with what is being said there. Pretty clear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9tJw49mgOY

[Methmatician]

Of course, we don't need NATO near our borders. The US government once promised Gorbachev there would be no further NATO extention eastward. So what? They turned out to be liars.
Who said this promise? There is no evidence of a formal promise by the US government. And Russia doesn't have the right to prevent other countries from joining and international organisation. Russia needs to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, but that's unlikely because Russia couldn't even respect Ukraine's territorial integrity like it formally promised to do in 1994. Ukraine is not a Soviet satellite state anymore, it can make it's own future.

[Methmatician]

Watch this. I agree with what is being said there. Pretty clear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9tJw49mgOY
I just watched a woman explain to me why she thinks the US is involved without showing any proof that they actually are. Very professional video btw :rolleyes2:

[Leto]

Who said this promise? There is no evidence of a formal promise by the US government. And Russia doesn't have the right to prevent other countries from joining and international organisation.
We don't prevent. NATO isn't willing to accept Ukraine itself. It's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

Nevertheless he agreed, but there was a quid pro quo, namely that NATO should not expand to the east, so Russia would at least have a kind of security zone. And George Bush and James Baker, secretary of state, agreed that NATO would not expand one inch to the east. Gorbachev also proposed a nuclear free weapons zone in the region, but the U.S wouldn't consider that.
http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20090313.htm

Ukraine is not a Soviet satellite state anymore, it can make it's own future.
Oh yeah. We've already seen its choice. ;)

[Leto]

This is not a good excuse to start wars everywhere and to pretend to be the angels of europe.
Why don't you say the same about the US? We don't start wars in the Middle East and other regions. They do it all the time.

[Hochmeister]

So what? You've been blaming the conflict on Donbass on the EU and US based on no evidence. I show you a man admitting that he had something to do with the conflict in Donbass and you make more excuses as to why he was justified in helping start a war. You're a hypocrite Soujourner. You tell me things a 'facts' yet show me no proof. I show evidence that the US and EU was not to blame for the conflict in eastern Ukraine and you brush it off as if it was obvious. Get your story straight and your shit together. And you still haven't showed me where I said I supported fascism in Ukraine.

The war was started by crooked gambling of these clowns:

http://s008.radikal.ru/i304/1411/fc/5630803ec6c3.jpg

http://images.aif.ru/003/227/0ab4bce815741f8d8cdf546a40a13bb7.jpg

[Leto]

I just watched a woman explain to me why she thinks the US is involved without showing any proof that they actually are. Very professional video btw :rolleyes2:
She speaks the truth. And you may believe the CNN, BBC and Jen Psaki, libtard.

[Hochmeister]

This is not a good excuse to start wars everywhere and to pretend to be the angels of europe.

You are fully retarded if you think "Russians are starting wars everywhere". Russians, as usual human beings, are not happy about wars.

[Methmatician]

We don't prevent. NATO isn't willing to accept Ukraine itself. It's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20090313.htm

Oh yeah. We've already seen its choice. ;)

In 1997, Philip Zelikow, who in 1990 was a senior official on the National Security Council (NSC) staff responsible for German reunification issues, maintained that the United States made no commitment at all about the future shape of NATO, apart from some specific points about eastern Germany that were codified in the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany signed in September 1990. ‘‘The option of adding new members to NATO,’’ Zelikow wrote, was ‘‘not foreclosed by the deal actually made in 1990.’’

http://dialogueeurope.org/uploads/File/resources/TWQ%20article%20on%20Germany%20and%20NATO.pdf

[Vlach]

You are fully retarded if you think "Russians are starting wars everywhere". Russians, as usual human beings, are not happy about wars.

So Transnistria,Ossetia,Novorossia were not started by russians? And Im more anti USA than Russia, calm down faggy.

[Vlach]

Why don't you say the same about the US? We don't start wars in the Middle East and other regions. They do it all the time.

We talk about Russia and Maidan here, when I said that I love USA?

[Methmatician]

She speaks the truth. And you may believe the CNN, BBC and Jen Psaki, libtard.

You can't expect me to believe someone who offers me nothing but propaganda and conspiracy theories.

[Leto]

So Transnistria,Ossetia,Novorossia were not started by russians? And Im more anti USA than Russia, calm down faggy.
South Ossetians want to join Russia. We have North Ossetia. It's the same people, they shouldn't be divided.

[Hochmeister]

So Transnistria,Ossetia,Novorossia were not started by russians?

Of course.


faggy.


It's more than funny to hear it from you, wannabe insulter.

[Vlach]

Of course.



It's more than funny to hear it from you, wannabe insulter.


The difference between me and you, is that in my city the main sport is football, not vodka drinking.

http://www.opiniatimisoarei.ro/fortaviola/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/poli-protest.jpg

[Methmatician]

The difference between me and you, is that in my city the main sport is football, not vodka drinking.

Seeing as you're a moderator could you make sure the topic stays on maidan and Ukraine instead of a pissing contest between nations?

[Hochmeister]

The difference between me and you, is that in my city the main sport is football, not vodka drinking.

http://www.opiniatimisoarei.ro/fortaviola/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/poli-protest.jpg

The difference between me and you is that in my home town we got more technical and scientifical achievements in the XXth century than your shitty Balkans and East European EU countries taken together.
Czechs, Germans and Russians in my home town are very moderate about vodka.

Football (soccer) is a game for stupid, retarded people without education and future (eteral thirdworldlers).

[Leto]

The difference between me and you, is that in my city the main sport is football, not vodka drinking.
Russians are no bigger drinkers than Europeans and Americans. It's a myth. Of course, alcoholism is a problem here, but it is in many other countries as well. I personally dislike the taste of alcohol (not its effect:naughty:) and drink only rarely.

[Hochmeister]

Russians are no bigger drinkers than Europeans and Americans. It's a myth. Of course, alcoholism is a problem here, but it is in many other countries as well. I personally dislike the taste of alcohol (not its effect:naughty:) and drink only rarely.

I don't drink at all.

[silentkiller]

Football (soccer) is a game for stupid, retarded people without education and future (eteral thirdworldlers).
It's inappropriate comment, but football is really popular in Latin America, these people are crazy about it, even women cheer for some team. I remember that I was walking down the street and overheard a funny dialogue of father and son (boy was like 10 years old), the father was teaching his son - if some boy does not like football, then this boy is a fucking faggot and you can kick his ass. I do not want to offend Latin America, calling it the third world. Everything depends on the area where you live and the circle of people with whom you deal. The people with whom I've been working were quite adequate and intelligent. They treated me very well for which I am sincerely grateful :)
Now, on topic. Here are the benefits of Maidan in the opinion of Ukrainians:
https://pp.vk.me/c618325/v618325956/11ab7/WienTB6bztk.jpg
I just had to translate it:
I had a call from a friend who had sad mood and he said that people on the internet are trying to find good examples of the government's actions after the Maidan and can not find them:
And I thought about it:
1. The national battalions were formed
2. Civil society is growing.
3. Gene of fear and veneration of authorities is being destroyed.
4. People of arming themselves and self-organize.
5. More and more of ordinary people and officials switch to the side of nation.
6. Volunteer army is an army of a Free People.
7. People started to understand the difference between the state and the homeland.
8. People disenchant themselves from the darkness of the Russian world.
9. "The deputy" - that does not sound proud, almost shameful. And it's dangerous occupation.
10. The new heroic epic is being formed.

What is that? These people have gone crazy from endless jumping.

[ЛыSSый]

it's nothing, just one more crowd of meat, headersof its were bougth for long time ago. They can do nothing except thieving and ruining. And, dear europeans, biggest part of them will near you soon.

It's inappropriate comment, but football is really popular in Latin America, these people are crazy about it, even women cheer for some team. I remember that I was walking down the street and overheard a funny dialogue of father and son (boy was like 10 years old), the father was teaching his son - if some boy does not like football, then this boy is a fucking faggot and you can kick his ass. I do not want to offend Latin America, calling it the third world. Everything depends on the area where you live and the circle of people with whom you deal. The people with whom I've been working were quite adequate and intelligent. They treated me very well for which I am sincerely grateful :)
Now, on topic. Here are the benefits of Maidan in the opinion of Ukrainians:
I just had to translate it:
I had a call from a friend who had sad mood and he said that people on the internet are trying to find good examples of the government's actions after the Maidan and can not find them:
And I thought about it:
1. The national battalions were formed
2. Civil society is growing.
3. Gene of fear and veneration of authorities is being destroyed.
4. People of arming themselves and self-organize.
5. More and more of ordinary people and officials switch to the side of nation.
6. Volunteer army is an army of a Free People.
7. People started to understand the difference between the state and the homeland.
8. People disenchant themselves from the darkness of the Russian world.
9. "The deputy" - that does not sound proud, almost shameful. And it's dangerous occupation.
10. The new heroic epic is being formed.

What is that? These people have gone crazy from endless jumping.

[ЛыSSый]

so, what we have?
1. ruined economic. national valuta downing in twice
2. less of working places
3. ruined most profitable regions
4. democracy changed to strange mix of anarchy and oligarchy
5. numerous of people gone away or died

but it doesn't matter for me - i live in, maybe, best region now. Fuck all, eat what you asked, crowd of pigs

[ЛыSSый]

fuck you, gypsy shit, i was it that day maybe in 200-300 meters near and saw it on my eyes. C'mon, pidaras, what you tried to bark with this video what i didn't know till this time?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wb5ODzfBNI

[ЛыSSый]

Hahaha, and of course, Yanukovic and Novorossia are like virgin angels which are raped by evil americans and ukrainans.... fuck you one time more, gypsy shit, c'mon, return one of my themes about your heartility loved peace of shit, Romania named.

[silentkiller]

it's nothing just one more crowd of meat, headers were bougth for long time ago. They can do nothing except thieving and ruining. And, dear europeans, biggest part of them will near you soon.
Who said that Europeans will ever allow Ukraine enter European Union? I never heard the statements of European politicians on abolishing visas or inclusion of Ukraine in the European Union. The EU already has a poor and endangered countries of the former socialist bloc, beggar states such as Romania.

[Siberyak]

http://www.bollyn.com/public/Ukraine.jpg

[ЛыSSый]

Russia need it to. Russia started more wars like this from Ukraine ;) . Transnistria, Ossetia, because is a a way to stop this countries ( Ukraine,Moldova,Georgia) to become a part of Nato/EU oh, it's so nicely, how noble gypsy pidaras know ewerything about present civil disorders ( not a war!) here. You, fucked pidaras, give to us prooves that russia now fighting in ukraine

[Siberyak]

Who said that Europeans will ever allow Ukraine enter European Union? I never heard the statements of European politicians on abolishing visas or inclusion of Ukraine in the European Union. The EU already has a poor and endangered countries of the former socialist bloc, beggar states such as Romania.

Some how Ukrainians have bought the lie that they will have western Europe type living standards in no time after joing the EU

[ЛыSSый]

This is not a good excuse to start wars everywhere and to pretend to be the angels of europe. fuck you one time more, pidaras-teen, at first tell to us, how your gypsies in goverment beggaring ukrainian lands. year by year. Fuck you, gypsy beggars

[silentkiller]

Why videos of Maidan shooting were removed? It's kind of biased attitude towards one of the parties to the conflict in Ukraine
PS: Sorry, videos are still there, so nevermind.

[silentkiller]

Some how Ukrainians have bought the lie that they will have western Europe type living standards in no time after joing the EU
I do not understand a single thing - if Ukrainians say that they are free from despotism and other crap, why then they need to join some block on the rights of the underdeveloped state to live better? I think a free country has the ability to increase its standard of living, remaining neutral de facto, like Finland.

[Leto]

so, what we have?
1. ruined economic. national valuta downing in twice
2. less of working places
3. ruined most profitable regions
4. democracy changed to strange mix of anarchy and oligarchy
5. numerous of people gone away or died

but it doesn't matter for me - i live in, maybe, best region now. Fuck all, eat what you asked, crowd of pigs
Вот пожалуйста, единственный українець форума подтвердил моё мнение.
The only Ukrainian user of TA has just backed my opinion.
("Валюта" всё-таки currency по-английски.:))

[ЛыSSый]

I do not understand a single thing - if Ukrainians say that they are free from despotism and other crap, why then they need to join some block on the rights of the underdeveloped state to live better? for runing out from this shit, how it sucsessfully did the romanian crowds.

[silentkiller]

for runing out from this shit, how it sucsessfully did the romanian crowds.
They were nothing and they are still nothing but within EU. So if there's no difference, why should they pay more?

[ЛыSSый]

Вот пожалуйста, единственный українець форума подтвердил моё мнение.
The only Ukrainian user of TA has just backed my opinion.
("Валюта" всё-таки currency по-английски.:)) ля, если честно, то вы все хуёво понимаете, шо и как тут происходит. есть мнение, шо окромя пары-тройки центровых областей, всё остальное стримко укрывается пиздой.

[silentkiller]

ля, если честно, то вы все хуёво понимаете, шо и как тут происходит. есть мнение, шо окромя пары-тройки центровых областей, всё остальное стримко укрывается пиздой.
подробности в студию, пж-ста.

[Leto]

@Methmatician
Watch this. It's totally independent from the Russian media, the people are Americans.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/11/10/385483/west-accusing-russia-propaganda-war/

[ЛыSSый]

подробности в студию, пж-ста. зарплаты в 2000 грн - это уже хорошо (курс - 1 к 15), всё, кроме пищепрома и эксплуатации к хуям закрылось. комуслуги подскочили в полтора-два разы и де-то под тыщу гривен.
еда хорошо так подорожала.
Единственное, что открылось за год - производства по изготовлению надгробий (сам их был стартовал). съёбывают уси, хто тикы можэ, мля, подгоните приглашение в европы, деньгами отблагодарю - меня так не пускают, был в своё время знатно повыёбывался.

по вечерам начали появляться непонятные тела, ну шо гопота в 90х. пока тииихиие, но уже есть случаи. несколько раз встречал битые машыны.

[Leto]

ля, если честно, то вы все хуёво понимаете, шо и как тут происходит. есть мнение, шо окромя пары-тройки центровых областей, всё остальное стримко укрывается пиздой.
А распад страны неизбежен в данном случае. Всё только хуже будет с такой политикой.

[ЛыSSый]

ооо!!! продавцы вещей с базара жаловались - нихто не покупает, зато секонды работают на ура.
был искал там мотообувь - так и не удалось - у самого чуть не с руками не оторвали. уебал носком по морде и кинул ботинок на радость победителю

[silentkiller]

зарплаты в 2000 грн - это уже хорошо (курс - 1 к 15), всё, кроме пищепрома и эксплуатации к хуям закрылось. комуслуги подскочили в полтора-два разы и де-то под тыщу гривен.
еда хорошо так подорожала.
тяжело вам, сочуствую. моя донецкая родня уехала - кто в Крым, кто в Сибирь. только старики остались в Донецке, говорят что у них ебашат постоянно с градов, особенно не повезло тем кто в районе аэропорта жил / живет, там ничего не осталось нетронутым.

Единственное, что открылось за год - производства по изготовлению надгробий (сам их был стартовал).
странно, а Тымчук говорит что потерь нет

съёбывают уси, хто тикы можэ, мля, подгоните приглашение в европы, деньгами отблагодарю - меня так не пускают, был в своё время знатно повыёбывался.
а и так не пустят, Польша вроде закрыла уже въезд для беженцев.

по вечерам начали появляться непонятные тела, ну шо гопота в 90х. пока тииихиие, но уже есть случаи. несколько раз встречал битые машыны.
ебать веселуха у вас, я бы наверное тоже срулил в таком случае. есть версии, кто и зачем убивает и бьет машины? массовый психоз что-ли?

[Leto]

ооо!!! продавцы вещей с базара жаловались - нихто не покупает, зато секонды работают на ура.
был искал там мотообувь - так и не удалось - у самого чуть не с руками не оторвали. уебал носком по морде и кинул ботинок на радость победителю
Если цены даже России заметно растут, то я представляю, что там у вас. А ведь зима впереди.
Ну зачем это псевдоперемирие объявили в начале сентября! Уже давным-давно была бы разбита хохляцкая армия. А их успокоит только полное поражение. :picard1:

[ЛыSSый]

странно, а Тымчук говорит что потерь нет
так их и не было)))


а и так не пустят, Польша вроде закрыла уже въезд для беженцев. ну так меня и раньше не пускали. после депортации



есть версии, кто и зачем убивает и бьет машины? массовый психоз что-ли? ну да, а шо?
вот, пока сегодня с окраины с себе ехал - 2 драки на улице видел. знакомый оттудова говорит, шо там мигалки каждый вечер слышно.

[silentkiller]

Если цены даже России заметно растут, то я представляю, что там у вас. А ведь зима впереди.
Ну зачем это псевдоперемирие объявили в начале сентября! Уже давным-давно была бы разбита хохляцкая армия. А их успокоит только полное поражение. :picard1:
Тут я согласен, только поражение нациков спасет Украину или то что от нее осталось. Когда ехал в Ярославль на поезде, на остановке в Данилове я встретил 2-х архангельских ментов с ОМОНа, которые насмотревшись телевизора взяли отпуск за свой счет и поехали в Донецк, меня звали :D я отказался.

[ЛыSSый]

Ну зачем это псевдоперемирие объявили в начале сентября! Уже давным-давно была бы разбита хохляцкая армия. А их успокоит только полное поражение. :picard1: ыыы "видя бой сос стороны всякий мнит себя стратегом". Знакомые с местов рассказывали, мол шо ихнее, шо наше войско это восновном колхоз неученный, только у нас техники больше, а у сепаристов начальство толковее. + у 2 неполных областей народу наааамного меньше чем у двух десятков оставшихся.

[Hochmeister]

Some how Ukrainians have bought the lie that they will have western Europe type living standards in no time after joing the EU

Soviets also bought it in 1991.

Actually having West Europe type living imples to have sattelites/colonies with their markets opened for your country's production distribution there in these markets. This is how America has West Europe and West Europe has East Europe (that's why all manufactures in ex-East bloc were destroyed). But in the EU Ukraine would be another market for German or French production.

On the other hand, Customs Union with Russia would allow Ukraine to have + 150 million market for Ukrainian production. So if Ukraine would like to be a shithole alike Bulgaria or Romania it must be in EU, but if Ukraine wants high living standards it needs a Union with Russia.

[silentkiller]

так их и не было)))
да откуда, украинские солдаты - универсальные киборги.

ну так меня и раньше не пускали. после депортации
только если ждать сколько-то времени и снова просить визу.

ну да, а шо?
вот, пока сегодня с окраины с себе ехал - 2 драки на улице видел. знакомый оттудова говорит, шо там мигалки каждый вечер слышно.
ну видимо гопники чуют что в стране непорядок, бардак, вот и начали шуршать.

[Leto]

ыыы "видя бой сос стороны всякий мнит себя стратегом". Знакомые с местов рассказывали, мол шо ихнее, шо наше войско это восновном колхоз неученный, только у нас техники больше, а у сепаристов начальство толковее. + у 2 неполных областей народу наааамного меньше чем у двух десятков оставшихся.
Ну как же, у ополченцев полно опытных мужиков, которые до этого либо служили, либо воевали. В украинской армии в основном либо призывники, которые не хотят воевать хер знает за что, либо укуренные радикалы, у которых больше фанатизма, нежели героизма. Я практически уверен, что хохлам жопа была бы, если бы контрнаступление не было остановлено. Там деморализованы все, плюс техника как правило устаревшая. За 22 года на армию было выделено мало средств, никто ей особо не занимался.

[ЛыSSый]

ну видимо гопники чуют что в стране непорядок, бардак, вот и начали шуршать. неее, там дядьки под 30 и выше махались

[ЛыSSый]

Ну как же, у ополченцев полно опытных мужиков, которые до этого либо служили, либо воевали... я извиняюсь, у вас прямые данные с местов?

В украинской армии в основном либо призывники, которые не хотят воевать хер знает за что, либо укуренные радикалы, у которых больше фанатизма, нежели героизма. колгоспники, там простому бойцу 6000 грн в месяц капает. сравните с 2000. понятно, да?
Вы, видимо, херово хохлов знаете. а "радикалы" там не очень-то в боях и учавствуют, со слов вояк они за спинами стоят и за порядком следят.
и полицаями работают - там много шо спиздить можно.

Я практически уверен, что хохлам жопа была бы, если бы контрнаступление не было остановлено.
Там деморализованы все, плюс техника как правило устаревшая. За 22 года на армию было выделено мало средств, никто ей особо не занимался.
братиш, извиняй, ща открыто подъебу: для нас всех невъебенно ценно мнение такого маститого военспеца, как ты.
И да: перемирие никто не держит. просто по-крупному все наступать ссат.

[Leto]

я извиняюсь, у вас прямые данные с местов?
братиш, извиняй, ща открыто подъебу: для нас всех невъебенно ценно мнение такого маститого военспеца, как ты.
Хаха, да не, сейчас просто Украина уже задолбала всех, целыми днями на ТВ. Вся страна в курсе, что там творится в подробностях. И Донбасс показывают, и Киев. Дебаты постоянно идут. У вас-то поди всё ТВ только на украиньской, всё остальное Вальцман забанил.

[Leto]

И да: перемирие никто не держит. просто по-крупному все наступать ссат.
США с ЕС сразу Россию обвинят, если оно "официально" закончится. По факту его и нет - боле 900 человек за два месяца погибло, данные ООН.

[ЛыSSый]

США с ЕС сразу Россию обвинят, если оно "официально" закончится. По факту его и нет - боле 900 человек за два месяца погибло, данные ООН. тут это, в психушку бойцов завозят. парами-тройками. с некоторыми пообщался, говорят они с похоронных бригад.

[Vlach]

Seeing as you're a moderator could you make sure the topic stays on maidan and Ukraine instead of a pissing contest between nations?

Is impossible since Hochmeister and chyliric guy are insulting me everyday, even if Im a mod, I can take it anymore, Im a human too.

[Vlach]

The difference between me and you is that in my home town we got more technical and scientifical achievements in the XXth century than your shitty Balkans and East European EU countries taken together.
Czechs, Germans and Russians in my home town are very moderate about vodka.

Football (soccer) is a game for stupid, retarded people without education and future (eteral thirdworldlers).

Soccer, lol :lol: True european

[Methmatician]

@Methmatician
Watch this. It's totally independent from the Russian media, the people are Americans.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/11/10/385483/west-accusing-russia-propaganda-war/
The video has sort of the same problem as the previous video you showed me. They deny the accusations made by the West but offer no proof other than that the pictures could have been taken anywhere. And I've seen already seen how credible Putin's words are about Ukraine when he denied having involvement in Crimea until after Crimea was secured by Russian troops. Also, the words they use ("Kiev regime") make me doubt their impartiality.

Btw, PressTV is a news network owned by the state of Iran.

[Leo Iscariot]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s526x395/10520599_866041046774698_1324526025004885394_n.jpg ?oh=0ccf5440522a50134589ec18594698b6&oe=54DA4BC8&__gda__=1427435414_1f16a26003f64d772d123b70d1242b4 7

[Conall]

LOL. The "independence" of Ukraine you support (and I know you do) is a US-backed fascism against all "dissenters". You get fired in modern Ukraine if you say something against the government and its policy. It is a fact. A lot of people have been intimidated or dismissed for that.

Yeah, and you are liable to have your kneecaps broken if you live in Donetsk and speak out again at Novorussiya. Yeah, I recken I'd rather live in Western Ukraine....

[Ars Moriendi]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s526x395/10520599_866041046774698_1324526025004885394_n.jpg ?oh=0ccf5440522a50134589ec18594698b6&oe=54DA4BC8&__gda__=1427435414_1f16a26003f64d772d123b70d1242b4 7

Tough to disagree.

[Methmatician]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s526x395/10520599_866041046774698_1324526025004885394_n.jpg ?oh=0ccf5440522a50134589ec18594698b6&oe=54DA4BC8&__gda__=1427435414_1f16a26003f64d772d123b70d1242b4 7
Conversely...
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2dhy1s4.jpg

[Ars Moriendi]

^^ Communism is a non-factor in current geopolitics.

[Methmatician]

^^ Communism is a non-factor in current geopolitics.
Who said anything about communism?

[Ars Moriendi]

USSR isn't returning. Cartoon is disingenous and taps into pre-imprinted Cold War propaganda.

[Methmatician]

USSR isn't returning. Cartoon is disingenous and taps into pre-imprinted Cold War propaganda.
The picture is making a claim that the events in eastern Ukraine are an attempt to recreate a modern-day USSR. Which was in response to a claim by a Ukrainian MP.

Here's another I found amusing:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiCTgQ-CQAEXKvW.jpg:large

[Hochmeister]

Is impossible since Hochmeister and chyliric guy are insulting me everyday, even if Im a mod, I can take it anymore, Im a human too.

Where do I insult you? Stop, lieing, please. Probably I insulted you 5 times at all, and that was a reaction on your bad behaviour and provocations. You are insulting me exponentially more. You even tried to insult my hometown and called me "faggot" out of the blue on here and so on.

I also answered you in a PM that it's mainly kidding, when you felt hurt last time.

[Sandman]

^^ Communism is a non-factor in current geopolitics.

But Ex- communists - yes.
http://www.nationalobserver.net/2012/vladimir_putin_kgb.jpg

[Vlach]

Where do I insult you? Stop, lieing, please. Probably I insulted you 5 times at all, and that was a reaction on your bad behaviour and provocations. You are insulting me exponentially more. You even tried to insult my hometown and called me "faggot" out of the blue on here and so on.

I also answered you in a PM that it's mainly kidding, when you felt hurt last time.

Shut up liar, you starte to make meme with me and using violet just for sarcasm, you are searching for attention, because you dont have nothing to say.

[Methmatician]

But Ex- communists - yes.
http://www.nationalobserver.net/2012/vladimir_putin_kgb.jpg
Well, tbh, most of those 'communists' became pro-democracy capitalists after the fall of the Soviet Union. I don't think they really believe in anything except having power and money. Might explain the corruption over there.

[Vlach]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s526x395/10520599_866041046774698_1324526025004885394_n.jpg ?oh=0ccf5440522a50134589ec18594698b6&oe=54DA4BC8&__gda__=1427435414_1f16a26003f64d772d123b70d1242b4 7


In front there should be Russia, a cartoon which show how the West and East are playing with a poor country .

[Hochmeister]

Shut up liar, you starte to make meme with me and using violet just for sarcasm


So what?

This is what you wrote me in private:


- making fun non-stop about me because I use violet color?
- Come on, I'm kidding

Why are you still crying like baby? Man up.
Go and count how many times you have been insulting me in this thread.


because you dont have nothing to say.


Of course I don't have nothing to say, because I have something to say.

[Vlach]

So what?

This is what you wrote me in private:



Why are you still crying like baby? Man up.
Go and count how many times you have been insulting me in this thread.




Of course I don't have nothing to say, because I have something to say.

And the meme and other bullshit about romanians? Cmon, if you are brave, just play with me.

[Hochmeister]

and other bullshit about romanians?

Wut?
http://new4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/3798618+_9869296befb89f0bb7753eb22e7476cb.jpg


Cmon, if you are brave, just play with me.

lol

[Vlach]

Wut?
http://new4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/3798618+_9869296befb89f0bb7753eb22e7476cb.jpg



lol

You are pathetic as your childish jokes... awful guy.

[Shkembe Chorba]

I think you're going to have to show my libtard brain where I said I supported fascism in Ukraine otherwise you're talking out of your arse (again).

Ive tried to ask those Putin lovers about quotes from my posts about conclusion that they make, noone gave an response. Last time I asked about an evidence from my posts, I get a reply "Whatever."

Same thing with facts about their words. Sojourner gave one of the few link that they call facts and we all saw it. Angry and sour woman talks over a surprisingly unprofessional cut video. And this youtube video suppose to make me think that evil Americans started to kill Russian babies.

All we got is calling names. We are called gypsies and mongrels, whcich is really awkward, knowing the ethnic background of some of the Russians here :)


so, what we have?
1. ruined economic. national valuta downing in twice
2. less of working places
3. ruined most profitable regions
4. democracy changed to strange mix of anarchy and oligarchy
5. numerous of people gone away or died

1. http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-ruble-falls-to-new-record-lows-2014-10
2. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2014/06/21/russias-workforce-is-shrinking/
3. http://www.interpretermag.com/decline-in-russian-oil-production-will-last-until-at-least-2016-2018-russian-analysts-say/
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch
5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

Oh, I see what you did there. You talked about Russia :)

[Sandman]

Well, tbh, most of those 'communists' became pro-democracy capitalists after the fall of the Soviet Union. I don't think they really believe in anything except having power and money. Might explain the corruption over there.

Communism was supposed to be under the premise of Marx and Engels' System of social justice. "But in conjunction with the Russian, Turanian mentality came cruel tyranny and totalitarian state with all its attributes. In this sense, communism has never really existed in Russia. Tsarist elite replaced Lenin and Stalin, etc. The current system in Russia is also not like democracy, because the people who come from communist elites continue to pull the strings.

[ЛыSSый]

1. http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-ruble-falls-to-new-record-lows-2014-10
2. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2014/06/21/russias-workforce-is-shrinking/
3. http://www.interpretermag.com/decline-in-russian-oil-production-will-last-until-at-least-2016-2018-russian-analysts-say/
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch
5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

Oh, I see what you did there. You talked about Russia :) dear gypsy, are you have IQ lower 50? I said this about hohlostan. Please re-read this words to fully understanding


so, what we have?
1. ruined economic. national valuta downing in twice
2. less of working places
3. ruined most profitable regions
4. democracy changed to strange mix of anarchy and oligarchy
5. numerous of people gone away or died

but it doesn't matter for me - i live in, maybe, best region now. Fuck all, eat what you asked, crowd of pigs

[Shkembe Chorba]

I said this about hohlostan. Please re-read this words to fully understanding

http://icouldcrybutidonthavetime.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/sarcasm.png

[Wild North]

Some people insist calling the Ukrainian government "fascist". Sure there´s a right-wing nationalist party (with fascist tendecies) within the governing coalition. But the leaders of the government itself, are rather western oriented liberal conservatives, and with some Jews in it.

Nobody calls the separatists ultra-red stalinist bolsheviks. But it´s the same thing here, there are various political groups, supporting the separatists.

[Veneda]

Some people insist calling the Ukrainian government "fascist". Sure there´s a right-wing nationalist party (with fascist tendecies) within the governing coalition. But the leaders of the government itself, are rather western oriented liberal conservatives, and with some Jews in it.

Nobody calls the separatists ultra-red stalinist bolsheviks. But it´s the same thing here, there are various political groups, supporting the separatists.

You don't know what you are talking about. Do you know who banderites were?

[Wild North]

You don't know what you are talking about. Do you know who banderites were?

Stepan Bandera, yes, was a Ukrainian radical nationalist. Indeed he colaborated with the nazis.. But do you want to say that the whole Ukrainian government is banderite?

[Veneda]

Stepan Bandera, yes, was a Ukrainian radical nationalist. Indeed he colaborated with the nazis.. But do you want to say that the whole Ukrainian government is banderite?

Yes, they support Ukrainian Insurgent Army and consider them as heros.

[Empecinado]

Every day I have more clear that the Russian secret services could have done more to avoid the Maidan. Not only because they have infiltrated the factions of Ukrainian nationalists and could destroy Right Sector from the inside (which is a coalition of parties easily desestabilizable), but because there are also suspicions that some nationalist leaders are actually FSB provocateurs agents . After all, was the Maidan which allowed Russia to annex Crimea and to put Donbass under his control.

According to the polls, Yanukovich was going to lose the presidential election to be held in 2015 in Ukraine. The West only needed to wait for it to have a pro-EU candidate winning the elections. However, NATO intelligence, with the arrogance that characterizes them, organized a revolution in Kiev in order to prove "who rules here." The Russians left them do as they will and scored a goal to NATO annexing Crimea and segregating Donbas from Ukraine.

[Shkembe Chorba]

You don't know what you are talking about. Do you know who banderites were?

How many deputies the Right Sector has in the current Government? 0.

How many deputies the LDPR has in the Duma? 56.

And yet, Kyiv is fascist.

Okay.

[Methmatician]

You don't know what you are talking about. Do you know who banderites were?
Do you know what you're talking about? Right Sector only received 1.8% of all votes and has only one seat on parliament. Svoboda (if you consider them fascists) only received 4.71% of all the votes and hold 6 seats in parliament which is 31 less than before the elections. So if we're going by numbers Ukraine has become less 'fascist' since Euromaidan.

If you're looking for fascists in Ukraine look in Novorossiya.
http://oi60.tinypic.com/15rzbb9.jpg

[Veneda]

How many deputies the Right Sector has in the current Government? 0.

How many deputies the LDPR has in the Duma? 56.

And yet, Kyiv is fascist.

Okay.

No Kiev is not fascist. Masz ty swoją Swobodę/Right Sector. Enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAP6JC8_1Jk

[Methmatician]

How many deputies the Right Sector has in the current Government? 0.
There's one in parliament in Ukraine; Dmytro Yarosh.

[Veneda]

Do you know what you're talking about? Right Sector only received 1.8% of all votes and has only one seat on parliament. Svoboda (if you consider them fascists) only received 4.71% of all the votes and hold 6 seats in parliament which is 31 less than before the elections. So if we're going by numbers Ukraine has become less 'fascist' since Euromaidan.

If you're looking for fascists in Ukraine look in Novorossiya.
http://oi60.tinypic.com/15rzbb9.jpg

You know Europe only from pictures from your early childhood and situation about Ukraine conflict only from your Australian media, so please be so kind and refrain from commenting that I do not know what I am talking about.

[Methmatician]

You know Europe only from pictures from your early childhood and situation about Ukraine conflict only from your Australian media, so please be so kind and refrain from commenting that I do not know what I am talking about.
I don't need to live in Ukraine to access statistics :rolleyes2:

[Veneda]

I don't need to live in Ukraine to access statistics :rolleyes2:

Stay where you are, then :)

[Wild North]

The Ukrainian government is surely supported by USA and NATO. But is there any evidence of them being directly involved in the current events in Ukraine, in the government affairs.

[glass]

The Ukrainian government is surely supported by USA and NATO. But is there any evidence of them being directly involved in the current events in Ukraine, in the government affairs.
high ranked officials visiting maidan, $5b spent for democracy in Ukraine, CIA director in Kiev shortly after coup is not enough?
----

btw german foreign minister said yesterday, Ukraine will not join NATO in nearest future. Also Ukraine is not going to join EU either, too early even to start talks about it
in german (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukraine-krise-steinmeier-gegen-nato-mitgliedschaft-der-ukraine-a-1004525.html)
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Vlach]

No Kiev is not fascist. Masz ty swoją Swobodę/Right Sector. Enjoy!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV70uDYUqlc&list=UUZaT_X_mc0BI-djXOlfhqWQ

[RussiaPrussia]

1 year anniversary of civil war, poverty, bankruptcy, recession and secession


Maidan made a good job for the country, come on lets celebrate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

[Methmatician]

high ranked officials visiting maidan, $5b spent for democracy in Ukraine, CIA director in Kiev shortly after coup is not enough?
"Yes, the U.S. State Department spent about $5 billion in Ukraine, but this money — which was spread out over 20 years, long before Maidan — was spent on programs promoting civil society and on charitable programs. U.S. law prohibits the funding of opposition leaders and movements, and there have been no violations of this law in Ukraine."

Top 5 Myths About U.S. Meddling in Ukraine (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/top-5-myths-about-us-meddling-in-ukraine/500208.html)

[Hochmeister]

Also Ukraine is not going to join EU either, too early even to start talks about it
in german (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukraine-krise-steinmeier-gegen-nato-mitgliedschaft-der-ukraine-a-1004525.html)
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Nothing surprising, as Steinmeier said they need at least one generation to pass to be able to join EU :laugh: ("Die wirtschaftliche und politische Modernisierung der Ukraine sei "ein Generationenprojekt". "Es macht deshalb heute wenig Sinn, über eine Mitgliedschaft der Ukraine in der EU in ferner Zukunft zu spekulieren", so Steinmeier").

Only idiots believed in a soon European integration of Ukrostan.

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-780250-videoposter16-kxte.jpg

[Hochmeister]

was spent on programs promoting civil society and on charitable programs

In other words, crowds of Maidan were prepared and brainwashed on this money.

[Methmatician]

In other words, crowds of Maidan were prepared and brainwashed on this money.
Read the quote. It was spent before Maidan. Learn to read and comprehend before you start parroting conspiracy theorists.

[Hochmeister]

Read the quote. It was spent before Maidan. Learn to read and comprehend before you start parroting conspiracy theorists.

You are idiot with low knowledge. This money was spent on nongovernmental organizations which prepared everything for Maidan 2.0, of course it took years to gather young people in some study groups and brainwash them there etc. All secret services do like that :laugh: And not only in Ukraine.

[W. R.]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2_jAATCYAASSW0.jpg

:)

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs15/f/2007/072/d/f/headbang_by_erosagfx.gif English subtitles.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIbiQi9i7yc

[Siberyak]

Nothing surprising, as Steinmeier said they need at least one generation to pass to be able to join EU :laugh: ("Die wirtschaftliche und politische Modernisierung der Ukraine sei "ein Generationenprojekt". "Es macht deshalb heute wenig Sinn, über eine Mitgliedschaft der Ukraine in der EU in ferner Zukunft zu spekulieren", so Steinmeier").

Only idiots believed in a soon European integration of Ukrostan.

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-780250-videoposter16-kxte.jpg

Ukraine will be on the 30 year waiting list to join the eu. Just like turkey haha

[W. R.]

Ukraine will be on the 30 year waiting list to join the eu. Just like turkey haha

Ukraine doesn't need the EU, what Ukraine really needs is to get kicks regularly on its way of reforms, so that it does not stop. If the EU could provide that this would be perfect.

[Hochmeister]

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs15/f/2007/072/d/f/headbang_by_erosagfx.gif English subtitles.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIbiQi9i7yc

So they are singing about people in Moscow they would like to burn alive (repeating massacre in Odessa). What a fucking scum they are.

[Methmatician]

You are idiot with low knowledge. This money was spent on nongovernmental organizations which prepared everything for Maidan 2.0, of course it took years to gather young people in some study groups and brainwash them there etc. All secret services do like that :laugh: And not only in Ukraine.
Okay, genius, name the organisations that were funded by the US in order to brainwash the Ukrainian population into orchestrating a mass protest involving ~800,000 people :rolleyes2:

I'd really like to see a run-down on how that money was spent purposely for an event like Euromaidan.

[W. R.]

So they are singing about people in Moscow they would like to burn alive (repeating massacre in Odessa). What a fucking scum they are.

The song was written before the second maidan, by a Russian band from Saint Petersburg. Hate for Moscow is widespread in Russia. (Only a couple of words were changed, for example the surnames “Putin, Girkin, Boroday” were inserted.)

[glass]

Ukraine doesn't need the EU, what Ukraine really needs is to get kicks regularly on its way of reforms, so that it does not stop. If the EU could provide that this would be perfect.
do you really believe all those poroshenkos and yatsenyuks can reform Ukraine? First was in Yushchenko government and the second is former subordinate of corrupted populist Timoshenko. New Ukraine can build new people, not people who grew and made themselves in old Ukraine. They can not live and act other way, their team and trusted men either. Democratic Poroshenko is just as real as turkophilic Leliana


Okay, genius, name the organisations that were funded by the US in order to brainwash the Ukrainian population into orchestrating a mass protest involving ~800,000 people :rolleyes2:
only single weekend, most of the time there were 10-15k clowns from Galicia

[Hweinlant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIbiQi9i7yc

Fantastic :D

[Hweinlant]

You are idiot with low knowledge. This money was spent on nongovernmental organizations which prepared everything for Maidan 2.0, of course it took years to gather young people in some study groups and brainwash them there etc. All secret services do like that :laugh: And not only in Ukraine.

Yeah, like combating tuberculosis and AIDS. Or building heating systems to kindergartens. That surely started Maidan revolution against corrupted regime.

[Vlach]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp8PmgPW_AI

[Empecinado]

Nothing surprising, as Steinmeier said they need at least one generation to pass to be able to join EU :laugh: ("Die wirtschaftliche und politische Modernisierung der Ukraine sei "ein Generationenprojekt". "Es macht deshalb heute wenig Sinn, über eine Mitgliedschaft der Ukraine in der EU in ferner Zukunft zu spekulieren", so Steinmeier").

Only idiots believed in a soon European integration of Ukrostan.

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-780250-videoposter16-kxte.jpg

The ultimate goal of the EU is not Ukraine's entry therein. The aim of Brussels is to transform Ukraine into an economic colony by signing an Association Agreement. Then, on the issue of accession to Ukraine,they will refuse them to entry, as they are doing with Turkey for 50 years.

[Hweinlant]

The ultimate goal of the EU is not Ukraine's entry therein. The aim of Brussels is to transform Ukraine into an economic colony by signing an Association Agreement. Then, on the issue of accession to Ukraine,they refuse will refuse entry, as they are doing with Turkey for 50 years.

Ukraine has possibility to join maybe in 5-10 years, while Turkey.. not really. It all really depends how quick Ukrainians can fix their shit (corruption, rule-by-law, institutions etc). If they can, and I think they will, there is nothing that would stop it. Ukraine will be at the receiving end of the funds for decades, so I'm not so sure how beneficial their joining is for the old member countries. Eurocrats and politicians won't give a damn about that, as EU enlargement is their ideological pet project. Romania and Bulgaria are members of EU and certainly do not contribute anything to EU. Why would it be different in case of Ukraine ?

[Empecinado]

Ukraine has possibility to join maybe in 5-10 years, while Turkey.. not really. It all really depends how quick Ukrainians can fix their shit (corruption, rule-by-law, institutions etc). If they can, and I think they will, there is nothing that would stop it. Ukraine will be at the receiving end of the funds for decades, so I'm not so sure how beneficial their joining is for the old member countries. Eurocrats and politicians won't give a damn about that, as EU enlargement is their ideological pet project. Romania and Bulgaria are members of EU and certainly do not contribute anything to EU. Why would it be different in case of Ukraine ?

No, Ukraine will never join because If Ukraine join the EU it would be harmful to the USA interests in Europe:

a) In the best case, Ukraine could ally with Poland and the Baltic countries, forming a block of about 100 million people that could offset the growing German hegemony.

b) In the worst case, Ukraine could have a pro-Russian government that could ally with Hungary to form a Kremlin Trojan horse within the EU.

[Hweinlant]

No, Ukraine will never join because If Ukraine join the EU it would be harmful to the USA interests in Europe:

a) In the best case, Ukraine could ally with Poland and the Baltic countries, forming a block of about 100 million people that could offset the growing German hegemony.

b) In the worst case, Ukraine could have a pro-Russian government that could ally with Hungary to form a Kremlin Trojan horse within the EU.

Both of your examples would be in U.S interests. Poland and Baltics are best U.S allies in Europe, perhaps even better allies than UK. Having a strong Pro-U.S faction at EU would make many smile in Washington. Ukraine joining EU and steering back to Pro-Russia course is not very likely. Ukraine is very anti-Russia now and will remain so at-least for generation or two. Even in hypothetical scenario like that, it would be in U.S interest as it would create disharmony in ranks of EU, it would create unstability and would harm EU's capability to do reforms. EU would be split into two camps and everyone would need to choose their belonging.

[silentkiller]

I doubt something will help to Ukraine. Here's a nice video from Ukrainian TV, which shows mental state of Ukrainians:

http://youtu.be/r4WSW8LAIaQ
Best part starts at 3:48. So you have nothing to eat? You feel scared to go out at the street? You want to know why?
Kiev people have an answer - "Glory to Ukraine", "Death to the enemies". Lol, these people are so sick that it kinda makes me feel scared.

[Empecinado]

Both of your examples would be in U.S interests. Poland and Baltics are best U.S allies in Europe, perhaps even better allies than UK. Having a strong Pro-U.S faction at EU would make many smile in Washington. Ukraine joining EU and steering back to Pro-Russia course is not very likely. Ukraine is very anti-Russia now and will remain so at-least for generation or two. Even in hypothetical scenario like that, it would be in U.S interest as it would create disharmony in ranks of EU, it would create unstability and would harm EU's capability to do reforms. EU would be split into two camps and everyone would need to choose their belonging.

Only Western Ukraine is very anti-Russian.

[Hweinlant]

Only Western Ukraine is very anti-Russian.

Majority of Ukrainians think that they are in war against Russia. It's not only "west Ukrainian" thing anymore. There will be generational distrust against Russia.

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.fi/2014/10/window-on-eurasia-ukrainians-know.html

[Siberyak]

Majority of Ukrainians think that they are in war against Russia. It's not only "west Ukrainian" thing anymore. There will be generational distrust against Russia.

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.fi/2014/10/window-on-eurasia-ukrainians-know.html

Oh please window on eurasia is garbage propaganda.

[Hweinlant]

Oh please window on eurasia is garbage propaganda.

It's not. He is former CIA spook who just writes summaries from news articles around post-soviet space. Old habit I think.

[Siberyak]

It's not. He is former CIA spook who just writes summaries from news articles around post-soviet space. Old habit I think.

Former cia writing articles on russia. Real Credible

[Hweinlant]

Former cia writing articles on russia. Real Credible

He is not writing articles, he is writing summaries of articles published in various news sources in post-soviet space. Here's the original he summarized in English:

http://rus.newsru.ua/Ukraine/06oct2014/russionwar_print.html

Large majority of Ukrainians know they are at war against Russia. That will leave marks that last for decades to come.

[Empecinado]

Majority of Ukrainians think that they are in war against Russia. It's not only "west Ukrainian" thing anymore. There will be generational distrust against Russia.

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.fi/2014/10/window-on-eurasia-ukrainians-know.html

It doesn't seems to me reliable source. Anyway, Ukraine as a united state is not a viable state anymore unless a centralist dictatorship and federalization would led to desintegration.

[Hweinlant]

It doesn't seems to me reliable source. Anyway, Ukraine as a united state is not a viable state anymore unless a centralist dictatorship and federalization would led to desintegration.

The Ultimate source is Ukrainian polling company. Ukraine is still viable and mostly united (it's propably more united than ever before, foreign invasion tend to do that to people). Russian held enclaves at east of the country are actually fairly small. Moscow doesn't control even most of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, just the titular cities.

http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4789162/ukraine_rebel_control.png

[Empecinado]

The Ultimate source is Ukrainian polling company. Ukraine is still viable and mostly united (it's propably more united than ever before, foreign invasion tend to do that to people). Russian held enclaves at east of the country are actually fairly small. Moscow doesn't control even most of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, just the titular cities.

http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4789162/ukraine_rebel_control.png

A Ukrainian polling company to me has the same credibility than RT. And even if Eastern Ukraine rebels are backed by Russia, it si not an invasion, and Maidan events and war have definitely made non-viable the state, even if nominally Kiev controlls most of the country. In Cuba 1959, Batista controlled 95% of territory and yet he had to run away from the country.

IMO, the Russian tactic is to wait: wait till Ukraine go definitely into receivership and then spur a new wave of "popular" revolts in neighboring Donbas regions like Kharkov, Zaporizhia and the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk under government control of Kiev. In these territories, the pro-Russian opposition block was the most voted, and the Communists gained around 10-20% of the vote. A small spark is enough to blow a massive new rebellion.

http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/2014/11/blogs/free-exchange/20141115_fnc240.png


If the grivna continues to fall, Ukraine will have a hyperinflation process, a terrible situation. The only way to prevent the fall in the price of the grivna is to use reserves. But as is shown in the graph, the foreign exchange reserves of Ukraine are falling rapidly. And if Ukraine has no dollars will be unable to import energy from abroad and its industry and economic activity would be completely paralyzed.

That's the reason USA and the government of Kiev are trying at all costs to make Russia to invade the country. If war became widespread in Ukraine and the Kremlin sent regular troops to Donetsk, European elites may feel threatened and as a result could commit to the defense of Ukraine. Not sending troops obviously, since they have no armies prepared for it, but delivering the Ukrainian treasury repayable 20,000 million dollars that desperately sought for Ukraine George Soros few weeks ago.

[W. R.]

do you really believe all those poroshenkos and yatsenyuks can reform Ukraine? First was in Yushchenko government and the second is former subordinate of corrupted populist Timoshenko. New Ukraine can build new people, not people who grew and made themselves in old Ukraine.

I have my doubts, that's why I wrote above that Ukraine really needs kicks from the EU not the EU itself. I wish the Ukraine government was a puppet government of the USA, it would make reforms more easy to carry out. But it is not.


Only Western Ukraine is very anti-Russian.

It's one of the myths of the Russian mythology. There is no need for a Spaniard to believe it. Western Ukrainians are people like you and I. They study, work, have children. They live their lives and hatred for Russia is not among their everyday worries.


IMO, the Russian tactic is to wait: wait till Ukraine go definitely into receivership and then spur a new wave of "popular" revolts in neighboring Donbas regions like Kharkov, Zaporizhia and the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk under government control of Kiev. In these territories, the pro-Russian opposition block was the most voted, and the Communists gained around 10-20% of the vote. A small spark is enough to blow a massive new rebellion.

I doubt it. People in the east see the Mordor, Lugandon is turning into, and do not wish such fate for themselves.

[Empecinado]

It's one of the myths of the Russian mythology. There is no need for a Spaniard to believe it. Western Ukrainians are people like you and I. They study, work, have children. They live their lives and hatred for Russia is not among their everyday worries.

By anti-Russian I mean they dislike Russia, that's all.


I doubt it. People in the east see the Mordor, Lugandon is turning into, and do not wish such fate for themselves.

When the hyperinflaction happens, all will look like Mordor.

[ЛыSSый]

Large majority of Ukrainians know they are at war against Russia.it's so funny, how different spratstanians know better, what it does here, that we are.

Large majority of Ukrainians knows, that it's not a war, but a big civil disorders with army from one side, and ordinary workers, from other one.
And we are clearly understand, that mass death from our side it's nor a fault of good war skill of dnr, but consequences of bad management of ours generals.

[ЛыSSый]

No, Ukraine will never join because If Ukraine join the EU it would be harmful to the USA interests in Europe:

a) In the best case, Ukraine could ally with Poland and the Baltic countries, forming a block of about 100 million people that could offset the growing German hegemony.
and it will named "beggar block". And bulgaria and romania will be added for better fun.

b) In the worst case, Ukraine could have a pro-Russian government that could ally with Hungary to form a Kremlin Trojan horse within the EU. :picard1:

[ЛыSSый]

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs15/f/2007/072/d/f/headbang_by_erosagfx.gif English subtitles.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIbiQi9i7yc

gigig, i'm so ashamed. All cultural creations from ukraine were stolen from russia and slihtly changed. Fuck, am I only ine user from ukraine, which is possible to teach other languages except russian?

[RussiaPrussia]

I doubt something will help to Ukraine. Here's a nice video from Ukrainian TV, which shows mental state of Ukrainians:

http://youtu.be/r4WSW8LAIaQ
Best part starts at 3:48. So you have nothing to eat? You feel scared to go out at the street? You want to know why?
Kiev people have an answer - "Glory to Ukraine", "Death to the enemies". Lol, these people are so sick that it kinda makes me feel scared.

good that we took their nukes

[Hochmeister]

Okay, genius, name the organisations that were funded by the US in order to brainwash the Ukrainian population into orchestrating a mass protest involving ~800,000 people :rolleyes2:


1. Maximum capacity of the Independence square ("maidan") in Kiev is 181,500 people (http://www.archdesignfoto.com/evromajdan-majdan-nezalezhnosti-ploshhad-majdana-nezalezhnosti.html) (but only if occupying surface of everything over there, including monuments, roofs and grass-plots - what never happened).

Captured Nazis in Moscow:

http://i003.radikal.ru/1411/68/91e67a5440ea.jpg

^ How many people were there, million? Nope, only 57,000. But the pic gives us an effect of hundreds of thousands.


2. It could be Baptist and Catholic Churches, clubs of Ukrainian poetry and cat appreciation, Galician boyscout organisations, free English classes by American volunteers etc, everything what could gather people, where they would be brainwashed during years that:

a. Ukraine is cool and Russia is subhumans
b. All failures of Ukrs happen because of Russians
c. Europe and America love Ukraine so much, and are ready to adopt this lost child for free
d. Europe and America give you money for free (this tea, this donut, this class and there are more to get!)
e. Oh, wait, what's happening on Maidan? Let's support our "European choice" (aka no-democratic illigal coup) and Europe with America will give us more and more money, and some glass-beads we will modernize Ukraine with.
f. Here is a buss/train ticket from our dear sponsors, heading to Maidan (it's so romantic!). http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/gr_patriot.gif


3. Mass media (TV, newspapers) had American sponsors as well :laugh: , same with students and Soros funds among them, and so on and so forth.

[silentkiller]

1. Maximum capacity of the Independence sqaure ("maidan") in Kiev is 181,500 people (http://www.archdesignfoto.com/evromajdan-majdan-nezalezhnosti-ploshhad-majdana-nezalezhnosti.html) (but only if occupying surface of everything over there, including monuments, roofs and grass-plots - what never happened).

Captured Nazis in Moscow:

http://i003.radikal.ru/1411/68/91e67a5440ea.jpg

^ How many people were there, million? Nope, only 57,000. But the pic gives us an effect of hundreds of thousands.


2. It could be Baptist and Catholic Churches, clubs of Ukrainian poetry and cat appreciation, Galician boyscout organisations, free English classes by American volunteers etc, everything what could gather people, where they would be brainwashed during years that:

a. Ukraine is cool and Russia is subhumans
b. All failures of Ukrs happen because of Russians
c. Europe and America love Ukraine so much, and are ready to adopt this lost child for free
d. Europe and America give you money for free (this tea, this donut, this class and there are more to get!)
e. Oh, wait, what's happening on Maidan? Let's support our "European choice" (aka no-democratic illigal coup) and Europe with America will give us more and more money, and some glass-beads we will modernize Ukraine with.
f. Here is a buss/train ticket from our dear sponsors, heading to Maidan (it's so romantic!). http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/gr_patriot.gif


3. Mass media (TV, newspapers) had American sponsors as well :laugh: , same with students and Soros funds among them, and so on and so forth.
Almost all patriotic groups in vk.com (social network, which belongs to the citizens of Russia), which were created by the residents of the post-Soviet countries (such as Belarus, Ukraine) strengthen the feeling of national dignity through humiliation of everything Russian. They call Moscow successor of the Golden Horde. And it was not long before the Maidan. I believe that bribed, defective or mentally ill people are engaged in such occupation because they have a large number of Russian-speaking people in their own countries. So they hate residents of their own countries.

[epirot]

To put it mildly, even if all Slavs united, they would still be weak to face the Saxons. But granted, Slavs divided as they are now will be so easy to break it is becoming laughable.

[Shkembe Chorba]

To put it mildly, even if all Slavs united, they would still be weak to face the Saxons.

http://media.giphy.com/media/VpbctjT9VrALS/giphy.gif

[RyanORyan]

Nato is on the offensive. People in Europe know that. But governments are slaves of the USA.

Therefore, the best way to save European democracy is to kick out Nato and the EU dictatorship.

[Shkembe Chorba]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9lKp8DVpyY&feature=youtu.be

[epirot]

http://media.giphy.com/media/VpbctjT9VrALS/giphy.gif

tell that to the bulgarians who clean stairs abroad... oh wait!! its the fault of bad russian communism!! have you considered the possibility that you are the paranoid here little tatar?

[Methmatician]

1. Maximum capacity of the Independence square ("maidan") in Kiev is 181,500 people (http://www.archdesignfoto.com/evromajdan-majdan-nezalezhnosti-ploshhad-majdana-nezalezhnosti.html) (but only if occupying surface of everything over there, including monuments, roofs and grass-plots - what never happened).

Captured Nazis in Moscow:

http://i003.radikal.ru/1411/68/91e67a5440ea.jpg

^ How many people were there, million? Nope, only 57,000. But the pic gives us an effect of hundreds of thousands.
http://www.infoukes.com/euromaidan/images/euromaidan_panorama.jpg


2. It could be Baptist and Catholic Churches, clubs of Ukrainian poetry and cat appreciation, Galician boyscout organisations, free English classes by American volunteers etc, everything what could gather people, where they would be brainwashed during years that:

a. Ukraine is cool and Russia is subhumans
b. All failures of Ukrs happen because of Russians
c. Europe and America love Ukraine so much, and are ready to adopt this lost child for free
d. Europe and America give you money for free (this tea, this donut, this class and there are more to get!)
e. Oh, wait, what's happening on Maidan? Let's support our "European choice" (aka no-democratic illigal coup) and Europe with America will give us more and more money, and some glass-beads we will modernize Ukraine with.
f. Here is a buss/train ticket from our dear sponsors, heading to Maidan (it's so romantic!). http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/gr_patriot.gif
It could be, you say. But the only information I could find on how that money was spent came from a political fact-checking website that states the following:

Since 1992, the government has spent about $5.1 billion to support democracy-building programs in Ukraine, Thompson said, with money flowing mostly from the Department of State via U.S. Agency for International Development, as well as the departments of Defense, Energy, Agriculture and others. The United States does this with hundreds of other countries.

About $2.4 billion went to programs promoting peace and security, which could include military assistance, border security, human trafficking issues, international narcotics abatement and law enforcement interdiction, Thompson said. More money went to categories with the objectives of "governing justly and democratically" ($800 million), "investing in people" ($400 million), economic growth ($1.1 billion), and humanitarian assistance ($300 million).

The descriptions are a bit vague, which could lead people to think the money was used for some clandestine purpose.

But even if it that were so, the money in question was spent over more than 20 years. Yanukovych was elected in 2010. So any connection between the protests and the $5 billion is inaccurate.

And Obama was elected in 2008, so any connection between $5 billion and Obama also is inaccurate.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

3. Mass media (TV, newspapers) had American sponsors as well :laugh: , same with students and Soros funds among them, and so on and so forth.
Which media outlets received funding from the American government?

[Sarmatian]

Do you know what you're talking about? Right Sector only received 1.8% of all votes and has only one seat on parliament. Svoboda (if you consider them fascists) only received 4.71% of all the votes and hold 6 seats in parliament which is 31 less than before the elections. So if we're going by numbers Ukraine has become less 'fascist' since Euromaidan.

The very fact that neo-Nazis were allowed to participate in parliament elections and take a few seats is unimaginable in normal countries. In Russia neo-Nazis can't even register their parties officially.


If you're looking for fascists in Ukraine look in Novorossiya.
http://oi60.tinypic.com/15rzbb9.jpg

Anyone can become volunteer on either side. Indeed some neo-Nazis from Russia joined Novorossiyan resistance but it's rather individual occurence than a rule. Meanwhile Ukies have a few batallions full of neo-Nazi volunteers.

[Methmatician]

The very fact that neo-Nazis were allowed to participate in parliament elections and take a few seats is unimaginable in normal countries. In Russia neo-Nazis can't even register their parties officially.
I think the reason why they're allowed is because they don't call themselves officially a 'neo-nazi' party but instead a 'far-right nationalist' party.

Meanwhile Ukies have a few batallions full of neo-Nazi volunteers.
Such ass? I think someone said Azov Battalion but I don't know how to check if they are in fact neo-nazis other than finding pictures of these battalions doing something to indicate that they're are neo-nazis.

[Sarmatian]

I think the reason why they're allowed is because they don't call themselves officially a 'neo-nazi' party but instead a 'far-right nationalist' party.

What a childish excuse is that? Russian neo-Nazis don't call themselves neo-Nazis either yet there is no way they will ever be allowed in any kind of official elections.


Such ass? I think someone said Azov Battalion but I don't know how to check if they are in fact neo-nazis other than finding pictures of these battalions doing something to indicate that they're are neo-nazis.

Azov, Aidar and all the voluntary batallions that were formed after Maidan. Initially the core of their fighters were members of various groups belonging to Right Sector. Later they were 'enforced' by convicts released under amnesty by new government. Now their are full of brainwashed cannon fodder from all over Ukraine. Even neo-Nazis from other countries like Sweden, Poland and Baltics joined them, it's a fact confirmed by those Nazis themselves. They openly admitting they are there 'to kill Russian scum', they openly glorify killings of women and kids, they openly maintain rhetoric of Russians being subhumans that deserve nothing but total extermination. And this rhetoric face no opposition from any state official, it's quietly encouraged and supported on all governing levels. If that is not rise of Nazis for you I don't know what is then.

[Methmatician]

What a childish excuse is that? Russian neo-Nazis don't call themselves neo-Nazis either yet there is no way they will ever be allowed in any kind of official elections.
That's because neo-nazism is banned in Russia, but that doesn't mean other far-right extremist parties are not allowed to participate. I don't understand though. Ukraine gives all parties the right to participate but people complain and call it a 'junta'.

Azov, Aidar and all the voluntary batallions that were formed after Maidan. Initially the core of their fighters were members of various groups belonging to Right Sector. Later they were 'enforced' by convicts released under amnesty by new government. Now their are full of brainwashed cannon fodder from all over Ukraine. Even neo-Nazis from other countries like Sweden, Poland and Baltics joined them, it's a fact confirmed by those Nazis themselves. They openly admitting they are there 'to kill Russian scum', they openly glorify killings of women and kids, they openly maintain rhetoric of Russians being subhumans that deserve nothing but total extermination. And this rhetoric face no opposition from any state official, it's quietly encouraged and supported on all governing levels. If that is not rise of Nazis for you I don't know what is then.
Azov is a neo-nazi battalion (or at least made up of them) but I don't remember hearing them say that Russians are subhumans. I don't deny that they possible believe that but in an interview the leader of Azov battalion said he didn't hate any other nationalities, he just wanted to rid his country of 'imperialists'. I think the reason for such little opposition to the battalions is because Ukraine is desperate for military support. It doesn't justify it but I can see why they would be quiet. They're fighting a war against people who are supported by the Russian military and in some cases are actually fighting Russian soldiers. Not many countries can win a war against Russia, especially not Ukraine (in it's current state). I don't know if I say this is the rise of neo-nazism in Ukraine. Neo-nazism in Ukraine has been more popular than in other places in Europe (except Russia and the Balkans) for a while now. I remember watching a documentary of neo-nazis in Ukraine leading up to the UEFA Euro 2012. I don't think it's a surprise that neo-nazis would use this opportunity to try and gain power but looking at the election results it looks like the vast majority don't want them in power. But they're probably fine with them fighting a war for them.

[glass]

Ukraine gives all parties the right to participate but people complain and call it a 'junta'.
some time ago they banned communist party and (literaly) kicked out of parlament communist faction:rolleyes:


but looking at the election results it looks like the vast majority don't want them in power. But they're probably fine with them fighting a war for them.
90% ukrainians are plain idiots who vote according mass propaganda, those elections means nothing.

[Sarmatian]

That's because neo-nazism is banned in Russia, but that doesn't mean other far-right extremist parties are not allowed to participate.

Name me an extremist party that is allowed in parliament in Russia.


I don't understand though. Ukraine gives all parties the right to participate but people complain and call it a 'junta'.

Sometimes I have an impression you're extremely delusional due to only using official Western sources and have zero understanding of the subject. Ukraine doesn't give any right to anyone because it's a failed state with no real control over all the armed groups and parties created after Maidan. Kiev's government simply have no power to stop all these extremists and forced to play all the political games with them to sustain its image in front of the rest of the world.


Azov is a neo-nazi battalion (or at least made up of them) but I don't remember hearing them say that Russians are subhumans. I don't deny that they possible believe that but in an interview the leader of Azov battalion said he didn't hate any other nationalities, he just wanted to rid his country of 'imperialists'.

The leader is saying what he have to say to maintain image. But there are many videos of ordianry members of batallions (including of foreign origin) and they are far more sincere on the subject of their motivation. Feel free to google it.


I think the reason for such little opposition to the battalions is because Ukraine is desperate for military support. It doesn't justify it but I can see why they would be quiet. They're fighting a war against people who are supported by the Russian military and in some cases are actually fighting Russian soldiers.

This is getting ridiculous. For months already there was not a single evidence of Russian military presence provided yet all sorts of tards keep repeating that crap over and over again.


Not many countries can win a war against Russia, especially not Ukraine (in it's current state).

I've told it to you before and not going to tell you again: there is no war between Russia and Ukraine, there is a Civil War between Ukrainian citizen with Russian volunteers assisting one side. If there would've been war between Russia and Ukraine it would've ended by now with Russian forces stationed on the borders with Poland, Hungary and Romania. Repeating your nonsense won't make it true.


I don't know if I say this is the rise of neo-nazism in Ukraine. Neo-nazism in Ukraine has been more popular than in other places in Europe (except Russia and the Balkans) for a while now.

Care to provide sources on popularity of neo-Nazism in Russia?


I remember watching a documentary of neo-nazis in Ukraine leading up to the UEFA Euro 2012. I don't think it's a surprise that neo-nazis would use this opportunity to try and gain power but looking at the election results it looks like the vast majority don't want them in power. But they're probably fine with them fighting a war for them.

I'd suggest you to read about rise of Nazism in Germany in 1930's. They only needed partial access to authority and some propaganda tools, the rest was done by force. Pretty alarming parallels with current developments in Ukraine.

[Methmatician]

Name me an extremist party that is allowed in parliament in Russia.
LDPR. I don't know if Russians consider it radical but their views would definitely be considered extreme in Australia.

Sometimes I have an impression you're extremely delusional due to only using official Western sources and have zero understanding of the subject. Ukraine doesn't give any right to anyone because it's a failed state with no real control over all the armed groups and parties created after Maidan. Kiev's government simply have no power to stop all these extremists and forced to play all the political games with them to sustain its image in front of the rest of the world.
And that makes it a 'junta'?

The leader is saying what he have to say to maintain image. But there are many videos of ordianry members of batallions (including of foreign origin) and they are far more sincere on the subject of their motivation. Feel free to google it.
Rightio.

This is getting ridiculous. For months already there was not a single evidence of Russian military presence provided yet all sorts of tards keep repeating that crap over and over again.
I think I already showed you this but in case I didn't here (http://aco.nato.int/new-satellite-imagery-exposes-russian-combat-troops-inside-ukraine.aspx) it is.

I've told it to you before and not going to tell you again: there is no war between Russia and Ukraine, there is a Civil War between Ukrainian citizen with Russian volunteers assisting one side. If there would've been war between Russia and Ukraine it would've ended by now with Russian forces stationed on the borders with Poland, Hungary and Romania. Repeating your nonsense won't make it true.
If that's what you really believe then maybe you can explain to Russian mothers why their sons in the Russian military are mysteriously dying on 'military exercises'.

Russia Reports Troop Deaths In Ukraine, But Calls Them 'Volunteers' (http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/09/08/346735504/some-in-russia-admit-their-troops-volunteer-in-ukraine)
Moscow Stifles Dissent as Soldiers Return From Ukraine in Coffins (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/moscow-stifles-dissent-as-russian-soldiers-return-from-ukraine-in-coffins/506979.html)

Care to provide sources on popularity of neo-Nazism in Russia?
I don't know if you would consider this 'evidence' but roughly half the world's neo-nazis are from Russia. Russian neo-nazis are also supposedly training paramilitary groups disguised as 'sport clubs'.

http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/neonazism-in-russia.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/12/world/europe/12moscow.html?_r=0
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3718255&page=1#.UCDbiaA4SuI
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6977086.stm

I'd suggest you to read about rise of Nazism in Germany in 1930's. They only needed partial access to authority and some propaganda tools, the rest was done by force. Pretty alarming parallels with current developments in Ukraine.
So if the neo-nazis/fascists are going to/trying to take over the government then why is the current government called a 'fascist junta run by neo-nazis' if they haven't taken over yet? I certainly hope fascism/neo-nazism doesn't become the dominant political force in Ukraine and tbh it looks like it won't be. Ukraine has been in a bad economic situation for 20 years now. I don't know if a war in the eastern part of the country could have that much influence in nazi politics.

some time ago they banned communist party and (literaly) kicked out of parlament communist faction:rolleyes:
When did this happen?

90% ukrainians are plain idiots who vote according mass propaganda, those elections means nothing.
So the mass media in Ukraine is anti-fascist?

[W. R.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo-ewuZjVhE

[glass]

When did this happen?
lol
it was not covered in free media? Their parliament passed bill that allowed them to disolve factions in parliament and right after that they disolved communist faction :rolleyes:

So the mass media in Ukraine is anti-fascist?
Ukr media do not speak about fascism. So that is irrelevant.
People in all (post) communist countries can be divided into 2 groups, First group blindly follows official "proganda" just because those people want to be part of something big, to be majority. They actualy form majority of voters. Second group is minority who want to be special and their position is simply blindly anti-majority. Both are easily manipulated. IN Ukrainian case, majority - russian finno-mongols assault young democracy in european Ukraine, minority - Great Putin send tanks, save Ukraine.
Those who voted "pro-european" would easily vote "pro-russian" if information they are recieving get changed. Elections mean nothing in eastern europe. Those who control media and currently in power nearly always win.

[epirot]

Don't take this balija Djihadist seriously. He is far from representing anything Yugoslav. He represents the pro-west version of the Islamists in Bosnia, wrapped in a nice euro-looking package. People like him are responsible for destroying the best balkan country ever : Jugoslavija. Having him giving you lectures is laughable at best.

[Borna]

So lets see the ultimate results -

Ukraine is de facto separated country :fponder:
Ukraine with her poor economics even pre-war is now in way bigger hole.
Ukraine is betrayed and left by USA/EU.
Ukraine lost Crimea.
Ukraine will suffer from her gas debt very soon.

Good job, well done Maidan!

[ЛыSSый]

So lets see the ultimate results -

Ukraine is de facto separated country :fponder:
Ukraine with her poor economics even pre-war is now in way bigger hole.
Ukraine is betrayed and left by USA/EU.
Ukraine lost Crimea.
Ukraine will suffer from her gas debt very soon.

Good job, well done Maidan!
Oh, you must be prepayed russian bolshevik troll only.

real progressive europeans only congratulates us with democratic/freedom.

[silentkiller]

So lets see the ultimate results -

Ukraine is de facto separated country :fponder:
Ukraine with her poor economics even pre-war is now in way bigger hole.
Ukraine is betrayed and left by USA/EU.
Ukraine lost Crimea.
Ukraine will suffer from her gas debt very soon.

Good job, well done Maidan!
If Maidan didn't happen, Yanukovich would leave the power, and Ukraine still would be getting cheap Russian gas, have Crimea within and no war at Russian-speaking regions. Term revolution involves the replacing of the social and political structure of the state (like it happened with Russian Empire), but in Ukraine it remained the same, even worse, just people have changed. So Maidan events simply initiated a coup d'etat.

[ЛыSSый]

If Maidan didn't happen, Yanukovich would leave the power, and Ukraine still would be getting cheap Russian gas, have Crimea within and no war at Russian-speaking regions. Term revolution involves the replacing of the social and political structure of the state (like it happened with Russian Empire), but in Ukraine it remained the same, even worse, just people have changed. So Maidan events simply initiated a coup d'etat. much more easier do not a revolution, but evolution changes.

existing example - nationlistic party "Svoboda". When they got a places in goverment several years ago, they from first day began... Try to guess, what exactly they began:
1) stopped corruption
2) developed regions (lvov and ternopol)
3) stealed everything and something more and barkinng that all this disorder did nor they, but another people

















Yes! the third punkt is correct. But... poeple from that regions still beleive to this stealers till this time.

[silentkiller]

much more easier do not a revolution, but evolution changes.
existing example - nationlistic party "Svoboda". When they got a places in goverment several years ago, they from first day began... Try to guess, what exactly they began:
1) stopped corruption
2) developed regions (lvov and ternopol)
3) stealed everything and something more and barkinng that all this disorder did nor they, but another people
Yes! the third punkt is correct. But... poeple from that regions still beleive to this stealers till this time.
тернополь и львов - это же рагулятина. они разве умеют делать что-то еще?

[ЛыSSый]

тернополь и львов - это же рагулятЬнЯ. они разве умеют делать что-то еще? да, майданить например.

неточности исправил

[Sarmatian]

LDPR. I don't know if Russians consider it radical but their views would definitely be considered extreme in Australia.

Zhirinovskiy is a well known clown, nobody is taking him seriously.


And that makes it a 'junta'?

Yes but it works other way around: because they are junta they lack control. They've taken power in the illegal coup and as result lack of continuity of government. For that reason they only have partial or no control over some governing institutions and political forces within the country.


I think I already showed you this but in case I didn't here (http://aco.nato.int/new-satellite-imagery-exposes-russian-combat-troops-inside-ukraine.aspx) it is.

This evidence is as valid as the photo of supposedly Ukrainian jet firing rocket at airliner over Donetsk. Even less I'd say because you can't recognize what kind of vehicles are they, no markings are seen (thus they can be Ukrainian after all) and there is no way to prove which way they're heading.


If that's what you really believe then maybe you can explain to Russian mothers why their sons in the Russian military are mysteriously dying on 'military exercises'.

Russia Reports Troop Deaths In Ukraine, But Calls Them 'Volunteers' (http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/09/08/346735504/some-in-russia-admit-their-troops-volunteer-in-ukraine)
Moscow Stifles Dissent as Soldiers Return From Ukraine in Coffins (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/moscow-stifles-dissent-as-russian-soldiers-return-from-ukraine-in-coffins/506979.html)

I don't have to explain anything as The Moscow Times and Dozhd are very well known liars. The story of soldiers going to Ukraine on their vacation and dying there is a heartbreaking... Oh wait, conscripts have no vacations! :picard2:


I don't know if you would consider this 'evidence' but roughly half the world's neo-nazis are from Russia. Russian neo-nazis are also supposedly training paramilitary groups disguised as 'sport clubs'.

http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/neonazism-in-russia.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/12/world/europe/12moscow.html?_r=0
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3718255&page=1#.UCDbiaA4SuI
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6977086.stm

The key word here is your 'roughly' as it means estimates may vary +/-30%. Those 'experts' are funny. In any case I was asking about statistics proportion of Russian neo-Nazis in total Russian population.


So if the neo-nazis/fascists are going to/trying to take over the government then why is the current government called a 'fascist junta run by neo-nazis' if they haven't taken over yet? I certainly hope fascism/neo-nazism doesn't become the dominant political force in Ukraine and tbh it looks like it won't be. Ukraine has been in a bad economic situation for 20 years now. I don't know if a war in the eastern part of the country could have that much influence in nazi politics.

So for you it's either Nazis in power and if not they must be underground outlaws, right? And nothing in between? Don't be naive. At the moment Ukrainian neo-Nazis have no much representation in Kiev's government as they only being used by 'oligarchat' as a tool. But they are growing in force and too little being made to stop those driven by radical ideology from taking full power. The very fact Nazis allowed to undertake open political and other activities is alarming enough and good reason to ask Ukie's government some direct questions and demand answers.

[Methmatician]

Zhirinovskiy is a well known clown, nobody is taking him seriously.
The question wasn't whether or not a politician is taken seriously in the State Duma, but I think if have enough votes to be a member of the State Duma and your political party makes up 1/10 of the State Duma then I think it's fair to say that a significant portion of the population takes him and his part seriously.

Yes but it works other way around: because they are junta they lack control.
A 'junta' isn't a country that lacks control. It's quite the opposite. Juntas usually have more control than most countries around the world.

They've taken power in the illegal coup and as result lack of continuity of government. For that reason they only have partial or no control over some governing institutions and political forces within the country.
Illegal coup? Yanukovych fled the country so the next legal course of action was for the Chairman to act as President until an election is held. The same politicians were also in parliament so I'm not sure what you mean by a 'lack of continuity of government'.

This evidence is as valid as the photo of supposedly Ukrainian jet firing rocket at airliner over Donetsk. Even less I'd say because you can't recognize what kind of vehicles are they, no markings are seen (thus they can be Ukrainian after all) and there is no way to prove which way they're heading.
The MH17 photo was proven to be false and examples were given why. They say it's Russian because the Ukrainian army hasn't been able to get that far into separatist territory. Another image shows territory near the Ukrainian border where the Russian military has set up vehicles and soldiers ready for deployment. If you want to try and debunk the photos go ahead. I have no personal interest in Ukraine. If you can show me that the allegations made against Russia are false and the US was really behind Maidan and the War in Donbass then I would gladly change my stance.

But if that doesn't convince you maybe this will? Putin: Crimean 'little green men' were Russian servicemen, helped ensure true referendum (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ApPC4XoV4). Or perhaps: Ukraine's Female Pilot-Soldier Surfaces in a Russian Prison (http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/ukraine-s-female-pilot-soldier-surfaces-in-a-russian-prison).

I don't have to explain anything as The Moscow Times and Dozhd are very well known liars. The story of soldiers going to Ukraine on their vacation and dying there is a heartbreaking... Oh wait, conscripts have no vacations! :picard2:
They must not be very well known liars since the only account of false reporting I could find was about the owner of Dozhd saying that Putin would meet Poroshenko in Kiev to discuss the War in Donbass.

Neither story said that conscripts were being sent to war. "Vitaly says officers tried to force his son, who is serving mandatory military service, to change his status to a contract soldier, which would legally allow him to serve abroad. Conscripts in Russia are exempt from foreign service."

The key word here is your 'roughly' as it means estimates may vary +/-30%. Those 'experts' are funny. In any case I was asking about statistics proportion of Russian neo-Nazis in total Russian population.
I'm not sure if there are exact numbers in each country since not every country would have information on the number of neo-nazis or skinheads in their countries. This is the best I could find. If you believe they're unreliable I'd like to hear why. If you have statistics on the number of neo-nazis or skinheads in Russia then I'd like to see them.

So for you it's either Nazis in power and if not they must be underground outlaws, right? And nothing in between? Don't be naive. At the moment Ukrainian neo-Nazis have no much representation in Kiev's government as they only being used by 'oligarchat' as a tool. But they are growing in force and too little being made to stop those driven by radical ideology from taking full power. The very fact Nazis allowed to undertake open political and other activities is alarming enough and good reason to ask Ukie's government some direct questions and demand answers.
Where are you getting the idea that they are growing? If you look at parliamentary election results the 'fascists' and 'neo-nazis' have seemingly lost support. Right Sector, however, received 1.8% of the vote, which was a 1% increase since the last election. I hardly consider that a threat to Ukrainian democracy.

[Shkembe Chorba]

If Maidan didn't happen, Yanukovich would leave the power, and Ukraine still would be getting cheap Russian gas, have Crimea within and no war at Russian-speaking regions. Term revolution involves the replacing of the social and political structure of the state (like it happened with Russian Empire), but in Ukraine it remained the same, even worse, just people have changed. So Maidan events simply initiated a coup d'etat.

In this post you directly say that Russia punished Ukrained with stealing Crimea, based not on "repressing Russian minority" or "historical evidence", but because they dared to have and independent opinion.

No, political structure is replace/changed. The political situation is very different. So it is practically a revolution, based on your standards. Your concept is either way something different, or you cant be good at lying.

[silentkiller]

In this post you directly say that Russia punished Ukrained with stealing Crimea, based not on "repressing Russian minority" or "historical evidence", but because they dared to have and independent opinion.
Russia didn't punish Ukraine. Ukrainians did it themselves with their stupidity.
Here's Ukrainian show, where Crimean people were invited also. They tell why they want to separate (Crimea still was part of Ukraine) at that moment:

http://youtu.be/gI7Ah9VJKNg

No, political structure is replace/changed. The political situation is very different. So it is practically a revolution, based on your standards. Your concept is either way something different, or you cant be good at lying.
Nope, it didn't change. They still have oligarchs in power who rule the same as Yanukovich, even worse.

[Shkembe Chorba]

Russia didn't punish Ukraine. Ukrainians did it themselves with their stupidity.
Here's Ukrainian show, where Crimean people were invited also. They tell why they want to separate (Crimea still was part of Ukraine) at that moment:

http://youtu.be/gI7Ah9VJKNg

Nope, it didn't change. They still have oligarchs in power who rule the same as Yanukovich, even worse.

I speak no Russian. Understand a lot more than half of your fellow Russophilles here, but I dont see that as a source. Youtube isnt source of anything, but you will never admit it, because it is often the only source you can provide for justifying your lies.

Crimea is in Russian hands, so Ukrainians didnt do it themselves, obviously.

It changed. Even if it is the only difference (but is not) that the current government is Pro-Ukraine, not Pro-Putin is sufficiently to say that the political structure is changed.

[silentkiller]

I speak no Russian. Understand a lot more than half of your fellow Russophilles here, but I dont see that as a source. Youtube isnt source of anything, but you will never admit it, because it is often the only source you can provide for justifying your lies.
Crimea is in Russian hands, so Ukrainians didnt do it themselves, obviously.
It changed. Even if it is the only difference (but is not) that the current government is Pro-Ukraine, not Pro-Putin is sufficiently to say that the political structure is changed.
So if I'm lying then ask ЛыSSый, he is true Ukrainian. He can tell what is happening over there.

[Shkembe Chorba]

So if I'm lying then ask ЛыSSый

I wont.


he is true Ukrainian.

He's not.


He can tell what is happening over there.

He can't.

--

This night, once again in this forum, we saw how you are unable to defend your statements :)

[silentkiller]

I wont.



He's not.



He can't.

--

This night, once again in this forum, we saw how you are unable to defend your statements :)
Yeah, your opinion is really important for me:bored:

[Sarmatian]

The question wasn't whether or not a politician is taken seriously in the State Duma, but I think if have enough votes to be a member of the State Duma and your political party makes up 1/10 of the State Duma then I think it's fair to say that a significant portion of the population takes him and his part seriously.

You have a good point here. However one shouldn't consider LDPR as a serious threat. It's rather a tool for those in power to attract more aggressive imperialists with less brain cells and take them out of the game. Zhirinovskiy is a pawn used for games strictly inside of Russia, he doesn't not affect Russian foreign policy in any way.


A 'junta' isn't a country that lacks control. It's quite the opposite. Juntas usually have more control than most countries around the world.

It's depends on a country and conditions in wich junta came to power. It's easy to assume power if country is relatively small but in a larger ones it will take time and serious effort. Kiev's junta is failing to achieve any success in it so far and dragging the country towards widespread civil war. Artillery shelling of Kiev is a matter of time.


Illegal coup? Yanukovych fled the country so the next legal course of action was for the Chairman to act as President until an election is held. The same politicians were also in parliament so I'm not sure what you mean by a 'lack of continuity of government'.

Yanukovich fled the country immediately after the coup because it presented an imminent threat to his life. Once killings started it was obvious he will end up among those killed so he has taken action to save his life. What makes it a coup is the very fact that killings started. Just before that the agreement for peaceful resolution of conflict was signed where the steps for Yanukovich's removal from power were outlined in details. He agreed to give up so there was no reason for escalation of violence. But it seems the agreement didn't fit the plans of some figures. For example if following agreement Turchinov would've never get the top position, Timoshenko would most liekly stay in prison and Yatsenuk would never become as important as he is now. Few others could be named also. So to 'fix' the situation and send the events on the 'right' course the bloodshed was initiated. By whom? It's a question to appointed enforcement agencies but for some reason I think they know everything already and actually played a big role in the events. It's a big dirty game of ugly greedy minds and here we can only speculate on their line of thoughts. The truth will be revealed years later.


The MH17 photo was proven to be false and examples were given why. They say it's Russian because the Ukrainian army hasn't been able to get that far into separatist territory. Another image shows territory near the Ukrainian border where the Russian military has set up vehicles and soldiers ready for deployment. If you want to try and debunk the photos go ahead. I have no personal interest in Ukraine. If you can show me that the allegations made against Russia are false and the US was really behind Maidan and the War in Donbass then I would gladly change my stance.

Well if you insist we can go into technical dfetails.

1. Location. How do you know it's Ukraine? Only because the article says so. The photo could've been taken in Germany or even in Africa. You can only associate image with area on a map if you can identify terrain markers on the photo. Can you? I don't think so. Thus we can only be sure it's not a desert, not an ocean or Antarctica.

2. Time. Even if location is true the image could've been taken 2, 5 or 10 years ago. I can draw distorted shapes of numbers in a corner of a photo and you'll never suspect a fake.

3. Allegiance. Even if location and time are correct there is no way to tell to whom those vehicles belongs to. Remember those Ukies soldiers going across Russian borders to avoid shelling? That means they were scattered all over the place and it's actually took Donbass fighters a significant amount of manpower to secure the area and get rid of all these roaming Ukies.

These three basic questions can only be answered by an expert and I don't see any reliable independent experts making any claims on that. Those fellas from Pentagon can't be considered reliable as they are well known for fabrication of evidence to justify their military actions and compromise opponents.


But if that doesn't convince you maybe this will? Putin: Crimean 'little green men' were Russian servicemen, helped ensure true referendum (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ApPC4XoV4). Or perhaps: Ukraine's Female Pilot-Soldier Surfaces in a Russian Prison (http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/ukraine-s-female-pilot-soldier-surfaces-in-a-russian-prison).

Allegiance of 'little green men' is not a secret for long time. But nobody can call their presence there illegal, legally debatable at most. Their involvement into process of Crimea's seccession is well explained and can't be used as a proof of Russian involvement into Donbass events.

As for captured female pilot there is no surprise. Donbass have no well developed security forces so they were sending those they suspect to be war criminals into Russia for further investigation. This specific pilot is being investigated in relation to bombing of living areas with use of jets and helicopters.

So the point still stands: there is no evidence of regular Russian military involvement in Ukraine thus for now it's strictly civil war between citizen of same country.


They must not be very well known liars since the only account of false reporting I could find was about the owner of Dozhd saying that Putin would meet Poroshenko in Kiev to discuss the War in Donbass.

Their presentation of information is always one-sided with obvious agenda. They are not a news outlet but pure anti-Russian propaganda agents.


Neither story said that conscripts were being sent to war. "Vitaly says officers tried to force his son, who is serving mandatory military service, to change his status to a contract soldier, which would legally allow him to serve abroad. Conscripts in Russia are exempt from foreign service."

The logic of the article is quite puzzling. Be it contract soldier or conscript it will be equally illegal to send them to Ukraine as Russia is not in a state war with it. So changing of soldier's status seems like a pointless waste of time to me. The whole story looks like a made-up drama to present Russian army as a bunch of murderous thugs who want to send innocent boys to slaughter. Quite an obvious appeal to emotions of mothers.


I'm not sure if there are exact numbers in each country since not every country would have information on the number of neo-nazis or skinheads in their countries. This is the best I could find. If you believe they're unreliable I'd like to hear why. If you have statistics on the number of neo-nazis or skinheads in Russia then I'd like to see them.

The whole thing about quantities is irrelevant. The main difference is in Russia nao-Nazis are illegal and can only operate underground. In Ukraine they are participating in parliamentary elections. See the difference?


Where are you getting the idea that they are growing? If you look at parliamentary election results the 'fascists' and 'neo-nazis' have seemingly lost support. Right Sector, however, received 1.8% of the vote, which was a 1% increase since the last election. I hardly consider that a threat to Ukrainian democracy.

Where did you see me talking about presence in government or parliament? I said 'growing in force' which means they allowed to operate freely and recruit more and more members. They are relatively well organized and are ready to go far lenghts and make sacrifices to achieve their goals. I'm talkling about human sacrifices.

[Sarmatian]

I wont.



He's not.



He can't.
--

This night, once again in this forum, we saw how you are unable to defend your statements :)

Obvious denial of logic is obvious.

[Shkembe Chorba]

Obvious denial of logic is obvious.

There were no logic at all. See the following quote:


So if I'm lying then ask ЛыSSый, he is true Ukrainian. He can tell what is happening over there.

The member doesnt feel Ukrainian, hes loyal Russian. He is biased, so I see no point to see as logical. The post of sillentkiller was 0 value, because there are no facts, evidences, historic or political points or anything.

You, Sarmatian, are trying to post with arguments, and even though I dont agree with most of them, I see that as more constructive, than "go as him, he knows" and "heres a youtube video that tells the truth". Agree?

[glass]

I see that as more constructive, than "go as him, he knows"
usage arguments in "conversation" with you is as useful as talking in russian with ram. Waste of time, because of subject is not capapble to understand

[silentkiller]

There were no logic at all. See the following quote:
The member doesnt feel Ukrainian, hes loyal Russian. He is biased, so I see no point to see as logical. The post of sillentkiller was 0 value, because there are no facts, evidences, historic or political points or anything.
So you, you are biased towads EU. You are useless Bulgarian troll, why should I waste my time or words on you?

[Shkembe Chorba]

So you, you are biased towads EU.

I can provide my posts with information from non-youtube sources, when asked to.


You are useless Bulgarian troll, why should I waste my time or words on you?

Because when a man makes a statement, he stands by his words.

[silentkiller]

Because when a man makes a statement, he stands by his words.
In your ideal world. As for me, I think I don't have to prove something to inadequate interlocutor.

[ЛыSSый]

The member doesnt feel Ukrainian, hes loyal Russian. He is biased, so I see no point to see as logical. The post of sillentkiller was 0 value, because there are no facts, evidences, historic or political points or anything.

You, Sarmatian, are trying to post with arguments, and even though I dont agree with most of them, I see that as more constructive, than "go as him, he knows" and "heres a youtube video that tells the truth". Agree? #curiousgypsy.

c'mon, chorba, write more. I'm crying when i read your posts. from laught.
Also: if you know another hohol except me with right point of wiev, please, invite them here.

[Shkembe Chorba]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0FgmXRFq0

http://i.imgur.com/cdtzB4S.png

Bulgarian national flag in the apartment of one of the Maidan protesters.