BALKAN GRADIENT (Croatians, Serbians, Bulgarians, and Greeks [Thessaly] Compared on EUROGENES K15

[MINARDOWICZ]

Balkan observations using Eurogenes K15 AVERAGES

Croatian:

North Sea- 18.41
Atlantic- 17.516666
Baltic- 22.743333
Eastern European- 15.173333
West Med- 10.166666
West Asian- 6.6933333
East Med- 5.2533333
Red Sea- 1.2866666

(EVERYTHING ELSE BASICALLY NEGLIGIBLE)

Serbian:

North Sea- 18.84
Atlantic- 17.28
Baltic- 15.16
Eastern European- 12.76
West Med- 11.74
West Asian- 8.44
East Med- 12.18
Red Sea- 2.6

(EVERYTHING ELSE BASICALLY NEGLIGIBLE)

Bulgarian:

North Sea- 12.88
Atlantic- 15.88
Baltic- 16.38
Eastern European- 9.34
West Med- 13.76
West Asian- 11.88
East Med- 16.27
Red Sea- 2.18

(EVERYTHING ELSE BASICALLY NEGLIGIBLE)

Greek Thessaly:

North Sea- 14
Atlantic- 11.563333
Baltic- 11.503333
Eastern European- 5.1566666
West Med- 17.47
West Asian- 12.02
East Med- 22.23
Red Sea- 4.0066666

(EVERYTHING ELSE BASICALLY NEGLIGIBLE)

OBSERVATIONS:

CROATIANS: 15.4199993% MED total
SERBIANS: 23.92% MED total
BULGARIANS: 30.03% MED total
GREEK THESSALY: 39.7% MED total

CROATIANS: 7.9799999% West Asian + Red Sea
SERBIANS: 11.04% West Asian + Red Sea
BULGARIANS: 14.06% West Asian + Red Sea
GREEK THESSALY: 16.0266666% West Asian + Red Sea

CROATIANS: 56.326666 North Sea + Baltic + Eastern European
SERBIANS: 46.76% North Sea + Baltic + Eastern European
BULGARIANS: 38.6% North Sea + Baltic + Eastern European
GREEK THESSALY: 30.6599996% North Sea + Baltic + Eastern European

In order of most to least North European:

Croatian
Serbian
Bulgarian
Greek Thessaly

In order of most to least Med:

Greek Thessaly
Bulgarian
Serbian
Croatian

Atlantic scores from most to least:

CROATIAN- 17.516666
SERBIAN- 17.28
BULGARIAN- 15.88
GREEK THESSALY- 11.563333

What are your observations on these differences and how they form a perfect gradient in most ways? I find it kind of cool and it makes sense geographically. So, Bulgarians are between Serbs and Greeks from Thessaly in many ways is what I have noticed... The north to south gradient is very clear and consistent.

[Dani Cutie]

Interesting.:thumbs up

[Dani Cutie]

How is baltic very present in all of they?

[Sikeliot]

Thessaly is also going to be representative for most northern Greeks, and it is clear here they are more Mediterranean than Bulgarians, but the other elements are similar.

[Stefan_Dusan]

There seems to be no discontinuities in the genetic fabric of the balkan (with some notable exceptions). For example a Greek from Macedonia would be similar to Bulgarian from Macedonia genetically even though language and nationality divides them. This implies they shared a border for quite some time as well as gene pool. They shared it before such a border or nationality existed to divide them.

Exceptions exist, most notable between Serbs and Albanians on their border.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Thessaly is also going to be representative for most northern Greeks, and it is clear here they are more Mediterranean than Bulgarians, but the other elements are similar.

They are sort of between Serbians and Greeks from Thessaly it seems.

[MINARDOWICZ]

BUMP! Wanna hear what Balkan people think of these results.

[Thrax]

Expected results. I believe Albanians would be very similar to Greeks from Thessaly, maybe with more MED total and less West Asian + Red Sea.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Expected results. I believe Albanians would be very similar to Greeks from Thessaly, maybe with more MED total and less West Asian + Red Sea.

Agreed. Time to find some results, maybe? @Stefan_Dusan you got any?

[Thrax]

Greek-albanian friend of mine:

1 East_Med 22.23
2 West_Med 18.34
3 Atlantic 14.25
4 Baltic 13.43
5 West_Asian 12.83
6 North_Sea 10.63
7 Eastern_Euro 5.97
8 Red_Sea 2.18
9 Oceanian 0.12

Very similar to the greeks

[Casandrinos]

Is Greek Thessaly sample reliable or its Hellander and co again?

[ioan assen]

It seems like the Bulgarians are transition people between Greeks and Serbians and the Serbians are transition people between Bulgarians and Croatians. Croatians seems to have the biggest Slavic admixture, then Serbians then Bulgarians then Greeks. This seems to be attested in language: Bulgarian has more common features with Greek than Serbian or Croatian: very similar grammar rules and lots of Greek loanwords. It seems like the genetics are in line with linguistics.

[Thrax]

Is Greek Thessaly sample reliable or its Hellander and co again?

I think it's reliable, my results are very close to the averages of Greek Thessaly

[Trun]

Is Greek Thessaly sample reliable or its Hellander and co again?

These are the official averages, so probably reliable.

[Sikeliot]

I made my own average for Greek islanders, if anyone wants to see, based on 9 people. 5 Cretans, 2 from Chios, 1 from Lefkada and 1 Dodecanese. It is similar to the Central Greece average and Sicilians.

[Thrax]

I made my own average for Greek islanders, if anyone wants to see, based on 9 people. 5 Cretans, 2 from Chios, 1 from Lefkada and 1 Dodecanese. It is similar to the Central Greece average and Sicilians.

Post it!

[Thrax]

Here are the averages of my "DNA cousins" from mainland Greece:

North Sea: 12.59
Atlantic: 13.73
Baltic: 11.15
Eastern European: 5.23
West Med: 16.97
West Asian: 13.82
East Med: 23.2
Red Sea: 2.44

Pretty much close to the official averages for Greek Thessaly, though not everyone comes from Thessaly.

[Sikeliot]

I said which ones are which. Notice Cretans/Dodecanese differ from Lefkada and Chios.

Greek islands - Lefkada (1), Chios (2, 3), Crete (4-8), Dodecanese (9) (N=9)

East Med: 26.74 + 26.5 + 26.22 + 32.88 + 33.76 + 30.58 + 32.19 + 34.02 + 32.64 = 30.61
Atlantic: 15.62 + 13.38 + 11.16 + 9.53 + 8.21 + 6.79 + 9.84 + 5.45 + 11.70 = 10.18
West Med: 16 + 14.89 + 12.35 + 14.87 + 13.94 + 16.9 + 14.85 + 17.45 + 18.82 = 15.56
West Asian: 10.53 + 14.5 + 14.71 + 18.86 + 16.5 + 16.75 + 12.71 + 21.27 + 20.98 = 16.31
North Sea: 6.88 + 12.88 + 9.44 + 11.21 + 9 + 10.42 + 11.71 + 8.43 + 3.15 = 9.23
Red Sea: 7.01 + 2.81 + 6.3 + 5.23 + 7.19 + 6.46 + 5.55 + 5.26 + 6.10 = 5.76
Baltic: 10 + 11.03 + 10.58 + 2.49 + 9.56 + 9.13 + 9.85 + 6.51 + 3.28 = 8.05
East Euro: 6.22 + 1.54 + 7.98 + 4.23 + 1.72 + 2.5 + 3.31 + 1.03 + 1.61 = 3.35

[Thrax]

I said which ones are which. Notice Cretans/Dodecanese differ from Lefkada and Chios.

Greek islands - Lefkada (1), Chios (2, 3), Crete (4-8), Dodecanese (9) (N=9)

East Med: 26.74 + 26.5 + 26.22 + 32.88 + 33.76 + 30.58 + 32.19 + 34.02 + 32.64 = 30.61
Atlantic: 15.62 + 13.38 + 11.16 + 9.53 + 8.21 + 6.79 + 9.84 + 5.45 + 11.70 = 10.18
West Med: 16 + 14.89 + 12.35 + 14.87 + 13.94 + 16.9 + 14.85 + 17.45 + 18.82 = 15.56
West Asian: 10.53 + 14.5 + 14.71 + 18.86 + 16.5 + 16.75 + 12.71 + 21.27 + 20.98 = 16.31
North Sea: 6.88 + 12.88 + 9.44 + 11.21 + 9 + 10.42 + 11.71 + 8.43 + 3.15 = 9.23
Red Sea: 7.01 + 2.81 + 6.3 + 5.23 + 7.19 + 6.46 + 5.55 + 5.26 + 6.10 = 5.76
Baltic: 10 + 11.03 + 10.58 + 2.49 + 9.56 + 9.13 + 9.85 + 6.51 + 3.28 = 8.05
East Euro: 6.22 + 1.54 + 7.98 + 4.23 + 1.72 + 2.5 + 3.31 + 1.03 + 1.61 = 3.35

Not really big differences with the mainland averages.

[Sikeliot]

Not really big differences with the mainland averages.

It'd be closer if it was all islands minus Crete/Dodecanese. Those are the ones skewing it most.

[Thrax]

It'd be closer if it was all islands minus Crete/Dodecanese. Those are the ones skewing it most.

Still no dramatic differences

[Thrax]

I noticed that mainland Greeks are equally close to Bulgarians and Cretans, it's as if they come somewhere in the middle.

[Casandrinos]

These are the official averages, so probably reliable.

Seems Northern Greece is not that close to Bulgaria

Then again, it's just amateur science

[Sikeliot]

I noticed that mainland Greeks are equally close to Bulgarians and Cretans, it's as if they come somewhere in the middle.

It seems like mainlanders are halfway between Bulgarian and Cretan/Sicilian, and then Ionian/Aegean islanders are in between mainland Greeks and Cretan/Sicilian.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Should a gradient through europe southern towards the Levant? :p

[щрбл]

Then again, it's just amateur science

Exactly. :rolleyes:
Other than that, comparing our genetic stats is a bit like comparing our d...s, it's always fun and entertaining.

[MINARDOWICZ]

No shit there is a gradient. The whole world is a gradient with small breaks in areas with large physical barriers.

There are some strange kinks in the gradients around the world though. This one is very perfect.