Do western Ukrainians look more like Polish or Russians?

[Foxy]

I'd say Polish.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Ur the expert. Do I look more Polish or Russian?

[Foxy]

You look like an Abruzzese from the mountains. I see you with sheephard clothes and a bag pipe, hunting boars with naked hands.

[silentkiller]

Obviously they would look like people around them, there are Hungary, Romania, Poland.
They look more Romanian than Russians. However, I'm not expert.
Svyatoslav Vakarchuk from Lvov:
http://hochu.ua/pictures_ckfinder/images/artworks-000045886569-nndm7u-original.jpg
http://joinfo.ua/images/news/2014/11/5479b67ec7ea6_1393188395_vakarchuk.jpg

[Hochmeister]

I'd say Polish.

More Romanian. This is a Galician:

http://i040.radikal.ru/0802/82/56fbcd17583e.jpg

Lots of them are Slavasized Romanians.

[Mans not hot]

I'd say Polish.
Do I look Ukrainian?
www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?42706-Members-Pictures-Thread-II&p=3163513&viewfull=1#post3163513

I say certain parts of SE Poland overlap with Ukrainians.

[Hochmeister]

Do I look Ukrainian?

No.

[Mans not hot]

No.
I think even I fit better in Slovenia or Croatia than Ukraine. Ukrainians look more Eastern than me.

[Hochmeister]

I think even I fit better in Slovenia or Croatia than Ukraine. Ukrainians look more Eastern than me.

Yes, your jawline makes you Western looking.

[Foxy]

Obviously they would look like people around them, there are Hungary, Romania, Poland.
They look more Romanian than Russians. However, I'm not expert.
Svyatoslav Vakarchuk from Lvov:
http://hochu.ua/pictures_ckfinder/images/artworks-000045886569-nndm7u-original.jpg
http://joinfo.ua/images/news/2014/11/5479b67ec7ea6_1393188395_vakarchuk.jpg

Yes, and Russians look mongoloid. :rolleyes:

Romanians belong to an other ethnic branch: Dacio-Latin. Observing immigrants here I'd say that Romanians are those looking the most different from Ukrainians considering all their neighbours.




Moskaliagu na hiliagu

[Roy]

I am not familiar with differences between Western and Eastern Ukrainians so I can't judge. I read that they are darker than Eastern Ukrainians though.


Ur the expert. Do I look more Polish or Russian?

Well you don't look Polish but If this man is Polish than maybe then you could be too, lol :) :coffee:
IMO you strike me with something that scream that you're Serbian, but I could confuse you in real life for Italian tourist too.



http://cdn22.se.smcloud.net/t/photos/t/320106/rafal-maslak_19552219.jpg

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?130357-Classify-mister-Poland-Rafa%C5%82-Ma%C5%9Blak&highlight=Mister+Poland


Poles are diverse, there's some percentage of swarthoids among us too but that's your features that are alien mostly. I must add though that what is dark here is not really that dark if you compare to how dark are some Serb or Bulgarian posted here or even members themselves.

[Antimage]

Yes, and Russians look mongoloid. :rolleyes:

Romanians belong to an other ethnic branch: Dacio-Latin. Observing immigrants here I'd say that Romanians are those looking the most different from Ukrainians considering all their neighbours.



Moskaliagu na hiliagu

romanians from north romania and romanian minority in ukraine look different than romanians in south romania/bucharest. I've been to Transylvania and romanians in the region often look like hungarian/central european and you can't really tell them apart. Southern romanians on the other are very dark haired, dark eyed and tan skinned aka mediterranean looking

[Foxy]

romanians from north romania and romanian minority in ukraine look different than romanians in south romania/bucharest. I've been to Transylvania and romanians in the region often look like hungarian/central european and you can't really tell them apart. Southern romanians on the other are very dark haired, dark eyed and tan skinned aka mediterranean looking

Romanians I see in the streets of Italy look imo like a mix of Italian and eastern European, while Ukrainians look clearly slavic (not considering pigmentation).

[Mark]

Maybe slightly more Polish.

[silentkiller]

Yes, and Russians look mongoloid. :rolleyes:
Hahaha, ok. You are expert on Russians' look.

Romanians belong to an other ethnic branch: Dacio-Latin. Observing immigrants here I'd say that Romanians are those looking the most different from Ukrainians considering all their neighbours.
I read somewhere that Titus Flavius Domitianus killed almost all Dacians. However, I'm not historian.

Moskaliagu na hiliagu
Hilarious and childish behaviour :picard2:
Do you really want to hang all the Muscovites on the tree branches?
Western Ukrainian Nazis finished bad in 1945 and they'll finish same in 2015 :D

[Mans not hot]

I am not familiar with differences between Western and Eastern Ukrainians so I can't judge. I read that they are darker than Eastern Ukrainians though.



Well you don't look Polish but If this man is Polish than maybe then you could be too, lol :) :coffee:
IMO you strike me with something that scream that you're Serbian, but I could confuse you in real life for Italian tourist too.



http://cdn22.se.smcloud.net/t/photos/t/320106/rafal-maslak_19552219.jpg

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?130357-Classify-mister-Poland-Rafa%C5%82-Ma%C5%9Blak&highlight=Mister+Poland


Poles are diverse, there's some percentage of swarthoids among us too but that's your features that are alien mostly. I must add though that what is dark here is not really that dark if you compare to how dark are some Serb or Bulgarian posted here or even members themselves.
Honestly, he couldn't be Pole. His face scream distinctly Serbian. Just compare dark Pole like me to him, the difference are clear.

[Hevo]

Do I look Ukrainian?

I say certain parts of SE Poland overlap with Ukrainians.

I think that you could pass in Ukraine but you look more West Slav imo.

[Zmey Gorynych]

I read somewhere that Titus Flavius Domitianus killed almost all Dacians. However, I'm not historian.
I always said that when you're stupid better keep your motuh shut. Your history knowledge is probably entirely acquired here on apricity. Domitianus got his ass kicked by the dacians.

[silentkiller]

I always said that when you're stupid better keep your motuh shut. Your history knowledge is probably entirely acquired here on apricity. Domitianus got his ass kicked by the dacians.
Umm, butthurt? Honestly, I don't care neither about you nor dacians.

[Mans not hot]

I think that you could pass in Ukraine but you look more West Slav imo.
Cool.

[Rugevit]

Maybe slightly more Polish.

A lot more Polish looking. Exception are marginal group in highlands near Romania and Hungary.

[Rugevit]

Romanians I see in the streets of Italy look imo like a mix of Italian and eastern European, while Ukrainians look clearly slavic (not considering pigmentation).

These people look as regular Ukrainians


http://image.tsn.ua/media/images2/original/Mar2011/383398372.jpg

[Borna]

Still more Russian :D

[Rugevit]

Still more Russian :D

Nah! Poles and Ukrainians are visiting each other saying they are so much alike. :D

[ЛыSSый]

Do western Ukrainians look more like Polish or Russians? as for me, much more like churkas, tajiks, for example.

[ЛыSSый]

ordinary churka. Europe? gigig, maybe turkey in best way, but nuch more clother to tajikistan

Obviously they would look like people around them, there are Hungary, Romania, Poland.
They look more Romanian than Russians. However, I'm not expert.
Svyatoslav Vakarchuk from Lvov:
http://hochu.ua/pictures_ckfinder/images/artworks-000045886569-nndm7u-original.jpg
http://joinfo.ua/images/news/2014/11/5479b67ec7ea6_1393188395_vakarchuk.jpg

[ЛыSSый]

Moskaliagu na hiliagu italluku na babuku

[Roy]

Honestly, he couldn't be Pole. His face scream distinctly Serbian. Just compare dark Pole like me to him, the difference are clear.

Well I was just implying that you usually can never be 100% sure, but you're right on Stefan_Dusan.

[Shepherd]

my great Grandma is from western Ukraine, and I think she looked more Polish than Russian

[Sisak]

I'd say Polish.

I do not know, nor do I care to.

[LightHouse89]

my great Grandma is from western Ukraine, and I think she looked more Polish than Russian

My uncle is Ukrainian/Russian. His people came over when the pro Tsar people fled from Russia and Ukraine.

[Shepherd]

My uncle is Ukrainian/Russian. His people came over when the pro Tsar people fled from Russia and Ukraine.

Thats very interesting. How long ago was that?

[Peter Nirsch]

They look like Moldovans or Belarusians.

[Marusya]

I met this person recently. She's from Western Ukraine, not far from my ancestral villages. Her region was once part of Historical Galicia, whereas my region was part of the Russian Empire. Also, at my local Russian Orthodox church, there are light Russians, med Russians and dark Russians. They originate from Moscow, Samara, etc. There are also light Ukrainians, medium Ukrainians and dark Ukrainians, mostly from Kiev and west. ;)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/913/JXpRnk.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pdJXpRnkj)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/904/mwaxuv.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p4mwaxuvj)

[Marusya]

More Romanian. This is a Galician:

http://i040.radikal.ru/0802/82/56fbcd17583e.jpg

Lots of them are Slavasized Romanians.

You know this how? Sources? lol Anyway, your guy reminds me of a young Alan Rickman.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/SjmEpI.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/exSjmEpIj)

[ЛыSSый]

Moar brown subhumans from western ukraune in this thread

http://cs625321.vk.me/v625321088/e12a/Ys2UratUutY.jpg

http://f5.s.qip.ru/8walh5Dy.png

http://forumimage.ru/uploads/20141206/141786555330883681.jpg

http://i.obozrevatel.ua/8/1269343/768170.jpg

http://cs412924.vk.me/v412924767/5f94/0ZcX8I_higs.jpg

http://forumimage.ru/uploads/20141118/141630556775378222.jpg

http://cs620226.vk.me/v620226681/1e2d7/eamnkAvB0hU.jpg

http://cs622116.vk.me/v622116062/865f/Oxi9R7yuHi8.jpg

https://pp.vk.me/c622017/v622017911/197e/f7av7hpfm54.jpg

https://pp.vk.me/c540108/c620127/v620127964/2621e/1bY4gDTVWnQ.jpg

http://forumimage.ru/uploads/20141103/1415024072180210026.jpg

[Veneda]

Moar brown subhumans from western ukraune in this thread

...
https://pp.vk.me/c540108/c620127/v620127964/2621e/1bY4gDTVWnQ.jpg

Does this 'national candidate' develop his political carrier under red-and-black flag?

[Leto]

Лысый, мне плевать на западенских хохлов, но постить только нетипичных людей или вообще каких-то явных метисов всё-таки несправедливо. Нам же не нравится, когда постят Шойгу, Собянина или Валуева, говоря, что так выглядят этнические русские. Тут дохрена можно найти каких угодно "татаро-монголов", но они ни ко мне, ни к моим родственникам отношения не имеют.

[ЛыSSый]

Лысый, мне плевать на западенских хохлов, но постить только нетипичных людей или вообще каких-то явных метисов всё-таки несправедливо спасибо, для меня бесценно мнение таакого маститого эксперта как вы. И,если есть сомнения в моей правоте, предлагаю таки посетить рагулятню самому.

[ЛыSSый]

Does this 'national candidate' develop his political carrier under red-and-black flag? yes

[Leto]

спасибо, для меня бесценно мнение таакого маститого эксперта как вы. И,если есть сомнения в моей правоте, предлагаю таки посетить рагулятню самому.
А при чём тут я? Зачем сразу на личности переходить? Политика и генетика не связаны между собой. Они могут быть десять раз ублюдками, оставаясь при этом европеоидами.

[ЛыSSый]

А при чём тут я? Зачем сразу на личности переходить? Политика и генетика не связаны между собой. малой, давай проще: нехуй меня жизни учить, понял, не? ты мля за кого вписываешься, эксперт хуев? ты мне не веришь? ну то в рот тебя ебать с твоим доверием, открой вконтакт и по сёлам пробей. Облцентры не трогай - там много намешано.


Они могут быть десять раз ублюдками, оставаясь при этом европеоидами. а жизнь показала, что не могут.

[Foxy]

my great Grandma is from western Ukraine, and I think she looked more Polish than Russian

I agree with this, I think western Ukrainians look slighty more central European. Or, to explain it better, considering the Ukrainian immigrants I have seen here, I had the impression that a good portion of western Ukrainians can pass in Poland, Austria, some even in north-Eastern Italy, while eastern Ukrainians have a more "only in the East" look :D Maybe it can be also for the way they dress or cut the hair, but I had this impression.


My uncle is Ukrainian/Russian. His people came over when the pro Tsar people fled from Russia and Ukraine.

First wave of Russian immigrants were pro-Tsar refugees also in Italy. They came during the first decades of 1900. Were very different from the current ones.


I met this person recently. She's from Western Ukraine, not far from my ancestral villages. Her region was once part of Historical Galicia, whereas my region was part of the Russian Empire. Also, at my local Russian Orthodox church, there are light Russians, med Russians and dark Russians. They originate from Moscow, Samara, etc. There are also light Ukrainians, medium Ukrainians and dark Ukrainians, mostly from Kiev and west. ;)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/904/mwaxuv.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p4mwaxuvj)

If for "dark" Ukrainian you mean something like this then I agree. There is a portion of people with brown hair and light eyes. :love:

[Stanislav]

53298

The western Ukrainians look like russian and polish, cose is not big diffirence.

[Rugevit]

North-western Ukrainians from Kovel' city.


http://www.ffv.at.ua/avatar/64/DSC00215.jpg

[revealman]

do not forget lot of polsih people, ukrainians and us slovaks have mixed with turkic tribes such as magyars, turanians, tatars etc. (willingly or unwillingly)

for example polish actress ida nowakowska is a perfect example of slavic/turanian admixture

http://static.cinemagia.ro/img/resize/db/actor/02/00/82/ida-nowakowska-374184l-poza.jpg

if she told me she is turkish i would believe her

[Brzęczyszczykiewiczówna]

I live near Ukraine and There are a lot of Western Ukrainians in my town. I must say most of them are darker than average Pole.

[revealman]

Lengyel, Magyar – két jó barát.
this is what i mean :D 80% of hungarians are R1A thus slavic, the rest is hun magyar asiatic turanians...

the magyars original homeland was the area between uyghuristan and kazakhstan and they raped our woman and produced mixed offspring thus many slavic people in russia, ukraine, poland. slovakia etc have asiatic looks..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t9qH0eHnA0

it is the same thing my grandmother told me when is was a child in stories about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries the mixed offspring of asiatic turkic huns who raped slavic women

[Foxy]

North-western Ukrainians from Kovel' city.


http://www.ffv.at.ua/avatar/64/DSC00215.jpg

These rapresent very well the western Ukrainians I have met. I have the impression that they look more central European than Eastern Ukrainians (that have more east baltids).

[Antimage]

North-western Ukrainians from Kovel' city.


http://www.ffv.at.ua/avatar/64/DSC00215.jpg

definitely more polish looking than russian

[Marusya]

53298

The western Ukrainians look like russian and polish, cose is not big diffirence.

I agree Stanislav. I've known many Polish, Ukrainians, and Russians who were born around 1900. (Great Aunts, Grandparents, their friends, etc.). The Ukrainians in my family are mostly from Volyn. One side of the family looks more Polish to me. The other side of the family looks more Russian. I've never met a Pole who looks Russian, though. One commonality: they all are/were exceptionally good-looking. :D My grandfathers served in the Russian Imperial Army in St. Petersburg. They loved that last czar. Did the last czar look Russian? His mother was Danish. ;)

I will say that SOME Western Ukrainians do favor Eastern Poles (OR Eastern Poles favor Western Ukrainians. ;) ) My cousin's husband is from West Poland (Poznan) and he has a typical Central/West Poland look. He does not look Ukrainian or Eastern Polish.

Anyway, I find all of this thread full of "crazy crazy." I think some posters may need mental health therapy or a life outside of the internet. :D Maybe a girlfriend? ;)

[Corvus]

I agree Stanislav. I've know many Polish, Ukrainians, and Russians who were born around 1900. (Great Aunts, Grandparents, their friends, etc.). The Ukrainians in my family are mostly from Volyn. One side of the family looks more Polish to me. The other side of the family looks more Russian. I've never met a Pole who looks Russian, though. One commonality: they all are/were exceptionally good-looking. :D My grandfathers served in the Russian Imperial Army in St. Petersburg. They loved that last czar. Did the last czar look Russian? His mother was Danish. ;)

I will say that SOME Western Ukrainians do favor Eastern Poles (OR Eastern Poles favor Western Ukrainians. ;) ) My cousin's husband is from West Poland (Poznan) and he has a typical Central/West Poland look. He does not look Ukrainian or Eastern Polish.

Anyway, I find all of this thread full of "crazy crazy." I think some posters may need mental health therapy or a life outside of the internet. :D Maybe a girlfriend? ;)

Good proposal, sadly easier said than done :D

[Guapo]

probably both

[Marusya]

I agree with this, I think western Ukrainians look slighty more central European. Or, to explain it better, considering the Ukrainian immigrants I have seen here, I had the impression that a good portion of western Ukrainians can pass in Poland, Austria, some even in north-Eastern Italy, while eastern Ukrainians have a more "only in the East" look :D Maybe it can be also for the way they dress or cut the hair, but I had this impression.



First wave of Russian immigrants were pro-Tsar refugees also in Italy. They came during the first decades of 1900. Were very different from the current ones.



If for "dark" Ukrainian you mean something like this then I agree. There is a portion of people with brown hair and light eyes. :love:

No offense, Detfri, but I don't trust your knowledge of this subject. How many Eastern Slavs do you actually know? Are you Orthodox even? ;)

[glass]

he has a typical Central/West Poland look. He does not look Ukrainian or Eastern Polish.
Contemporary western Poland (formerly german Silesia and Pomerania) was filled mostly with polish speaking migrants from the eastern territories (western Belarus and Ukraine), so western poles are living in eastern part of country nowadays:rolleyes:

[ЛыSSый]

this ptoto is nonrepresentive in a reason, that they are not random passers from city, but espesially selected sportsmans.

North-western Ukrainians from Kovel' city.


http://www.ffv.at.ua/avatar/64/DSC00215.jpg

In a streets of western ukraine you faster will see subhumans like this one:

All this photoes are from project "faces of the Lutsk".
I didn't post peoples with russian and poland surnames, only true rogules from north-west hohlostan.
and let me notice one time more: that pieces are not hohols as me and my relatives, but rogules (this insult word actually theirs endonim).
http://www.volynnews.com/resize/640x426/r/files/news/2012/12-01/36623-8u.jpg
http://visitlutsk.com/php_uploads/images/articleimages/wcarousel_ArticleImages_330_viktor_koshkarian.jpg
http://visitlutsk.com/php_uploads/images/articleimages/wcarousel_ArticleImages_330_serhij_tkachuk.jpg
http://visitlutsk.com/php_uploads/images/articleimages/wcarousel_ArticleImages_330_andriy_kotyschuk.jpg
http://visitlutsk.com/php_uploads/images/articleimages/wcarousel_ArticleImages_330_vakebtyh_goliuk.jpg
http://visitlutsk.com/php_uploads/images/articleimages/wcarousel_ArticleImages_330_vladyslav_starynkov.jp g
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w_2Jr_DZIEc/UMb9upYWUcI/AAAAAAAAFWk/rVZhhBAxqIk/s1600/Mwna6hq1ERE.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_st8VPzplPw/UMb9sdxdoWI/AAAAAAAAFWM/Bazg_Wo2wp4/s1600/Ajx93LaYSgk.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r-A73B4S2vc/UMb9uEtL8zI/AAAAAAAAFWc/lTdrdOrKbxE/s1600/E_P6C-j9SkI.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bKZpfMPVVf0/ULTBEcRpcPI/AAAAAAAAFUI/aZnms8J7CQc/s1600/HmmkSO1YHkc.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7sDo7-vauAc/UKn6_FQYCFI/AAAAAAAAFTE/bTzBEmij2tM/s1600/REBqDy17xHo.jpg

[Marusya]

this ptoto is nonrepresentive in a reason, that they are not random passers from city, but espesially selected sportsmans.


In a streets of western ukraine you faster will see subhumans like this one:

All this photoes are from project "faces of the Lutsk".
I didn't post peoples with russian and poland surnames, only true rogules from north-west hohlostan.
and let me notice one time more: that pieces are not hohols as me and my relatives, but rogules (this insult word actually theirs endonim).


Hey, ЛыSSый, Cyrillic dude, I figure you are only around 12, so maybe you are too young for a girlfriend. Some advice: There are more entertaining things to do in this world then copy and paste random photos of random peeps off the internet. Really, there is. Because, guess what? No one on internet forums cares what the fuck you look like, Russians look like, or anyone looks like. Marusya no lie. Unless you are Kim Kardashian. Seems like a bunch of people sadly care about what she looks like. BUT, she makes millions for posting her selfies on Instagram. How many rubles are you earning finding pics of random people? If the Kremlin ain't paying you for this, I'd say you're wasting your life on a pointless pursuit. :D

[Marusya]

Contemporary western Poland (formerly german Silesia and Pomerania) was filled mostly with polish speaking migrants from the eastern territories (western Belarus and Ukraine), so western poles are living in eastern part of country nowadays:rolleyes:

You really need to stop drinking. ;)

[ЛыSSый]

Hey, ЛыSSый, Cyrillic dude, I figure you are only around 12, so maybe you are too young for a girlfriend. thank for your expert point of wiev, it's so important for me.



Some advice: There are more entertaining things to do in this world then copy and paste random photos of random peeps off the internet. Really, there is. Because, guess what? No one on internet forums cares what the fuck you look like, Russians look like, or anyone looks like. Marusya no lie. Unless you are Kim Kardashian. Seems like a bunch of people sadly care about what she looks like. BUT, she makes millions for posting her selfies on Instagram. How many rubles are you earning finding pics of random people? If the Kremlin ain't paying you for this, I'd say you're wasting your life on a pointless pursuit. :D oh, is it really true, that someone with russian name "Marusya" writing to me about kremlin arm?

In hohlostanian (ukrainian) language this small variant of "Maria" sounds like "mariyka" or "marichka", my dear cremlin troll.

About random photoes, put in google search tag "обличчя Луцька" and try to reseach what is this project, ofcause, if you able to do it.


Anyway, try to be a civiliced, and if you disagree with me in some question, try to start discussion, but not barking and insults only.

[Shkembe Chorba]

http://www.extremecentrepoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Bjy4g9sCYAEGFZF_thumb.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksey_Nikolayevich_Tolstoy

[ЛыSSый]

poor chorba wants to heal himself butthurt in any way.
Dear Chorba, try do it like civiliced human: give us some facts about my native hohlostan, but not nonexisting citations from nowhere about another country .

keep calm and hear this song from hot hohlostanian jewish maiden


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhV7NozUWug

[Stanislav]

I agree Stanislav. I've known many Polish, Ukrainians, and Russians who were born around 1900. (Great Aunts, Grandparents, their friends, etc.). The Ukrainians in my family are mostly from Volyn. One side of the family looks more Polish to me. The other side of the family looks more Russian. I've never met a Pole who looks Russian, though. One commonality: they all are/were exceptionally good-looking. :D My grandfathers served in the Russian Imperial Army in St. Petersburg. They loved that last czar. Did the last czar look Russian? His mother was Danish. ;)

I will say that SOME Western Ukrainians do favor Eastern Poles (OR Eastern Poles favor Western Ukrainians. ;) ) My cousin's husband is from West Poland (Poznan) and he has a typical Central/West Poland look. He does not look Ukrainian or Eastern Polish.

Anyway, I find all of this thread full of "crazy crazy." I think some posters may need mental health therapy or a life outside of the internet. :D Maybe a girlfriend? ;)
Marusya, believe me, you can not to fixe the difference between russian and polish. Its

[Rugevit]

In a streets of western ukraine you faster will see like these:

All this photoes are from project "faces of the Lutsk".=


How are they different to south-eastern Poles though? Poles and western Ukrainians are similar in many ways. They like each other too. Marusya will confirm it. :cool:

[ЛыSSый]

How are they different to south-eastern Poles though? western ukrainians (rogules) has much more turc blood - you can see it on posted by my photoes.

Poles and western Ukrainians are similar in many ways. like slaves and masters. By many centuries. You can see similar situation on usa's negdos - they are much more similar to white peole that any negros else.
And let me repeat opinion from polish user user Alisja. She and I seen its on uor eyes.

I live near Ukraine and There are a lot of Western Ukrainians in my town. I must say most of them are darker than average Pole.


Marusya will confirm it. :cool: Marusya only got butthurt when i broke her sweat dreams and she started to bark on me. She can't confirm or disprove this in a reason that she never was and never will in Volin region, but I was last time there about 2 years ago in Novograd-Volynskiy near nuclear station.

And if somebody wanna - just pay me for the road and some money and i will take as much photoes as i can to do.

[Rugevit]

western ukrainians (rogules) has much more turc blood - you can see it on posted by my photoes.
like slaves and masters. By many centuries. You can see similar situation on usa's negdos - they are much more similar to white peole that any negros else.
And let me repeat opinion from polish user user Alisja. She and I seen its on uor eyes.


Marusya only got butthurt when i broke her sweat dreams and she started to bark on me. She can't confirm or disprove this in a reason that she never was and never will in Volin region, but I was last time there about 2 years ago in Novograd-Volynskiy near nuclear station.


I didn't notice she got butt-hurt. It's more like you're a butt-hurt vainly searching for swarthy individuals presenting them as typical western Ukrainians. ;)


There is no Turkish influence in western Ukrainians. There's some Vlach influence in populations of Ivano-Frankivsk and certain regions of Galicia, but no on Volhynia. There is also Vlach influence in certain regions of south-eastern Poland. Cherry-picking pictures labelled as from Lutsk does not prove a point. If you want to post pictures, then post pictures of groups of people or videos of large gatherings. Genetically, western Ukrainians are overlapping with south-eastern Poles. This has been proven scientifically.



And if somebody wanna - just pay me for the road and some money and i will take as much photoes as i can to do.

No need to. Visit vkontakte or odnoklassiniki. Type in a name of a town and see thousands of pictures .

[ЛыSSый]

There is no Turkish influence in western Ukrainians. There's some Vlach influence in populations of Ivano-Frankivsk and certain regions of Galicia, but no on Volhynia. There is also Vlach influence in certain regions of south-eastern Poland. Cherry-picking pictures labelled as from Lutsk does not prove a point. If you want to post pictures, then post pictures of groups of people or videos of large gatherings. Genetically, western Ukrainians are overlapping with south-eastern Poles. This has been proven scientifically.
aaa, proves, we all need any prooves, but not blablabla about nothing only.

[Rugevit]

aaa, proves, we all need any prooves, but not blablabla about nothing only.

Exactly. Blah-blah is what you have been doing. I don't need to defend western Ukrainians but come one man...even a school student would know people living on the other side of the border cannot be all that different. See South_Polish and Ukrainian_Lviv


http://s28.postimg.org/uznbxb8il/pca12.png





If anything it's certain groups of Russians, such Russians from the Ural, who are most similar to Tatars.


http://oi59.tinypic.com/vhgscx.jpg

[ЛыSSый]

Exactly. Blah-blah is what you have been doing. really? or, maybe, i was posted photoes at first?


I don't need to defend western Ukrainians but come one man...even a school student would know people living on the other side of the border cannot be all that different. Really? But how about if one group was for long time as slaves? in any way they have some common blood as bastards from masters.



See South_Polish and Ukrainian_Lviv At beginning conversation was about Lutsk, if you remember.



http://s28.postimg.org/uznbxb8il/pca12.png
If anything it's certain groups of Russians, such Russians from the Ural, who are most similar to Tatars.
http://oi59.tinypic.com/vhgscx.jpg can you give to me more data about this reseach?

[Rugevit]

really? or, maybe, i was posted photoes at first?

Really? But how about if one group was for long time as slaves? in any way they have some common blood as bastards from masters.


At beginning conversation was about Lutsk, if you remember.



Cherry-picking pictures? :rolleyes: People of Lutsk would not be all that different to eastern Poles genetically. It has been shown on many occasions genetic proximity correlates with geographic proximity.




can you give to me more data about this reseach?

People on the Russian speaking forum molgen will provide the particulars of the research. Are you surprised to find Russians of Ural being similar to Tatars of Kazan? Russians in Volga-Ural region mix with locals like Russians are mixing with Ukrianians in Ukraine.

[Hevo]

There is also Vlach influence in certain regions of south-eastern Poland.

Only Gorals have a Vlach influence.

[ЛыSSый]

Cherry-picking pictures? :rolleyes: People of Lutsk would not be all that different to eastern Poles genetically. It has been shown on many occasions genetic proximity correlates with geographic proximity. Let me repeat: at first a posted here real photoes from real project from lutsk, after you posted some unnamed grafics from other region without any data and after you trying to proove me something. good joke, don't stop this fun.

[ЛыSSый]

some more people from Lutsk:
Станіслав Євницький
https://pp.vk.me/c622527/v622527762/aa8d/m7cAKemBZdE.jpg
Аня Марадевич
https://pp.vk.me/c619829/v619829159/145b1/GIIxsorKq-k.jpg
Іванесса Тарасюк
https://pp.vk.me/c619718/v619718339/562d/CZ5CKlWPGf0.jpg
Сан Нич
https://pp.vk.me/c619530/v619530028/23621/DnolybiX_No.jpg
Світлана Іваниця
https://pp.vk.me/c608622/v608622313/5edd/SL9jY8r5kg8.jpg
Svitlana Karpyuk and her son
https://pp.vk.me/c617317/v617317936/1d0f4/zJ54Dx92hio.jpg
https://pp.vk.me/c315916/v315916936/21de/yIxs5nUQwyM.jpg
Іринка Селюс
https://pp.vk.me/c618031/v618031802/eb4d/q4_qmxlm310.jpg
Сергій Дацюк
https://pp.vk.me/c617631/v617631545/1bb36/sz_AlMAHqxE.jpg
Сєня Савич
https://pp.vk.me/c616529/v616529313/17aa3/b2WcFXPjmsE.jpg
Танюшка Русинчук
https://pp.vk.me/c620522/v620522769/7d01/3TvqxMqypXs.jpg
Сергій Бусько
https://pp.vk.me/c624528/v624528148/55b5/tBHHgTwJyJI.jpg

[interes]

Let me repeat: at first a posted here real photoes from real project from lutsk, after you posted some unnamed grafics from other region without any data and after you trying to proove me something. good joke, don't stop this fun.

[ЛыSSый]

it's so funny, how different people, which seen my native hohlostan on a maps only, trying to explaing what it does here.

[glass]

Танюшка Русинчук
https://pp.vk.me/c620522/v620522769/7d01/3TvqxMqypXs.jpg

Oh dear :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Borna]

https://pp.vk.me/c619718/v619718339/562d/CZ5CKlWPGf0.jpg

400% Subhuman

[ЛыSSый]

400% hot! how it sayd: "so big and all she is my!"

https://pp.vk.me/c619718/v619718339/562d/CZ5CKlWPGf0.jpg

400% Subhuman

[ЛыSSый]

And moar from Volin
Макс Кобец
https://pp.vk.me/c618927/v618927197/1dabd/X0FJEK2-L3I.jpg
Віка Зелінська
https://pp.vk.me/c616231/v616231241/10b13/kC1k83WHY58.jpg
Вікторія Кидиба
https://pp.vk.me/c623228/v623228439/eb29/EoI4YsJynD4.jpg
Андрей Соколовский
https://pp.vk.me/c618321/v618321544/11630/-J91pZYsDc0.jpg
Олічька Романюк
https://pp.vk.me/c625717/v625717198/823f/-lUDUflNVB0.jpg
Тарас Гнатюк
https://pp.vk.me/c620027/v620027663/16a89/MhK_QGK9q1I.jpg
Сергій Ліщук
https://pp.vk.me/c622621/v622621312/9f84/DJWNmzMdklg.jpg
Наташа Царук
https://pp.vk.me/c616029/v616029203/1d47a/Fo6IKM7bKCw.jpg
Леся Шимчук
https://pp.vk.me/c622022/v622022443/ff66/Lm9LEHftKw8.jpg
and group photo
https://pp.vk.me/c625327/v625327109/cecc/6Q2O8l6jM5I.jpg
Рома Гус
https://pp.vk.me/c624930/v624930154/8b91/Ze5AZWEIVEk.jpg
Кира Малюга
https://pp.vk.me/c623419/v623419017/8e13/pZlRQrmtel8.jpg
Юля Бунда
https://pp.vk.me/c624829/v624829243/56b2/J7W3xNX9hrE.jpg
Маша Забродська (Федонюк) 100% hottt!
https://pp.vk.me/c623319/v623319111/11547/sftBSSAv8AQ.jpg

[glass]

http://s1.postimg.org/7q7p8t0hb/0_f5692_fb5be33f_orig.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Marusya]

And if somebody wanna - just pay me for the road and some money and i will take as much photoes as i can to do.


ЛыSSый! My friend! Why stop at photos? I think you should produce a complete video documentary! "Volyn: Who Are These People?!" If you ask nicely, I bet the you could get the Kremlin to fund your project. ;)

ЛыSSый, I bet in real life you are an uber-fun, sweet guy, so I have a Christmas present for you!

Тартак is a band from Volyn. Cool, huh? Enjoy the video! Love, Marusya. *Big Kiss* Now, a plane and a resort with a warm beach awaits! Bye-bye and Happiest of New Years to you all! :) Pssst, Cyrillic dude, find more pictures! Google the shit out of Volyn/Western Ukraine! Find every last one of them and post 'em here! Keep it going, baby, you are on a roll! :D I find your work amusing, and if there one thing that Marusya loves, it is being amused.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVDq9uQaVLY

[ЛыSSый]

ЛыSSый! My friend! Why stop at photos? I think you should produce a complete video documentary! "Volyn: Who Are These People?!" If you ask nicely, I bet the you could get the Kremlin to fund your project. ;) do you seriously wanna to share with me your Kremlin money?



Тартак is a band from Volyn. Cool, huh? Enjoy the video! Love, Marusya. *Big Kiss* Now, a plane and a resort with a warm beach awaits! Bye-bye and Happiest of New Years to you all! :) Pssst, Cyrillic dude, find more pictures! Google the shit out of Volyn/Western Ukraine! Find every last one of them and post 'em here! :D I find your work amusing, and if there one thing that Marusya loves, it is being amused.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVDq9uQaVLY let me say some interesting things for you:
1. people on this clip not from western hohlostan. Scared rogules (western hohols) too scaried pussies for being in army. usually they prefer run away in russia )))
2. some people in this clip from DNR army )))
3. This singer is scaried patriotic pussy too

anyway thankful to you fir this funny video.

[Marusya]

do you seriously wanna to share with me your Kremlin money?

Kremlin money? Worthless rubles? No, no. I get something better, baby. Chocolates from Poroshenko. ;)


I'm so glad you loved the video! :D I'll find more... You can thank me later. :)

[Veneda]

Kremlin money? Worthless rubles? No, no. I get something better, baby. Chocolates from Poroshenko. ;)


I'm so glad you loved the video! :D I'll find more... You can thank me later. :)

Slavorum troll!

[Leto]

Chocolates from Poroshenko. ;)
Actually, they don't taste really good. We've always disliked them, even when he wasn't the president.

[ЛыSSый]

іі

[ЛыSSый]

Actually, they don't taste really good. We've always disliked them, even when he wasn't the president.
ля, братиш, а хули ты хочешь? пэцька спец по отжиму заводов, а не производству хоть чего-то.

пс: и это ты ещё не знаешь из каких кизяков эти кахвэтки лепят)))

[ЛыSSый]

Slavorum troll!
panna Veneda, try to be more tolerance. Marusia rattar stupied, but very funny as my opinion

[Veneda]

panna Veneda, try to be more tolerance. Marusia rattar stupied, but very funny as my opinion

Dobra :D

[Leto]

ля, братиш, а хули ты хочешь? пэцька спец по отжиму заводов, а не производству хоть чего-то.

пс: и это ты ещё не знаешь из каких кизяков эти кахвэтки лепят)))
Слава Богу, их запретили недавно. Подозреваю, что там как минимум пальмовое масло активно используется. Это дерьмо сейчас везде добавляют. Но хохляцкие цукерки я из принципа не куплю.

[Not a Cop]

Слава Богу, их запретили недавно. Подозреваю, что там как минимум пальмовое масло активно используется. Это дерьмо сейчас везде добавляют. Но хохляцкие цукерки я из принципа не куплю.

Из какого принципа?

[Leto]

Из какого принципа?
А зачем мы должны покупать конфеты, выпущенные на фабриках Порошенко? Я не поддерживаю его. Они преступники.

[ЛыSSый]

Тартак is a band from Volyn. Cool, huh? Enjoy the video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVDq9uQaVLY And let me write some more about this group. Its leader has name Oleksanr (Sashko) Polozhinsky.

He's actually denationalised and degraded polak's descendant, who creating and singing songs glorifying UPA and banderists, who massacred polaks in 194X years.
Fuck my mind, it's nonunderstandeble for me: how to betray ancestor's memories in a searching for bigger part of lard?

[ЛыSSый]

Из какого принципа? ненене, мужики, не жрите эти кизяки. там реально вплоть до того, что нужно знать правильный номер партии, чтоб не просраться опосля )))

[Rugevit]

Dobra :D

Polacy i zachodni Ukraińcy - Bracia Na Zawsze! :cool:

[Rugevit]

Marusia rattar stupied, but very funny as my opinion

Зря ты на девушку даже если она тебе не симпатична.

[ЛыSSый]

Зря ты на девушку даже если она тебе не симпатична. братиш, давай так: ты не говоришь что мне делать, я не говорю, куда тебе стоит пойти. и это, будь добр, скинь дополнительные данные по предоставленным тобой графикам, есть мнение, что там изначально неправильная выборка. чуть то - заранее благодарен.

[ЛыSSый]

Polacy i zachodni Ukraińcy - Bracia Na Zawsze! :cool: lwuw jest polska ))

[Rugevit]

братиш, давай так: ты не говоришь что мне делать, я не говорю, куда тебе стоит пойти. и это, будь добр, скинь дополнительные данные по предоставленным тобой графикам, есть мнение, что там изначально неправильная выборка. чуть то - заранее благодарен.

лысый, ты как маленький со своим "не говори что мне делать". я буду тебе говорить, а ты будешь читать, внимая каждое мое слово.

какие данные? пацаны на moglen собрали выборки из разных регионов россии , а другие составили графики. ник не помню, помню его гаплогруппу и месторасположение. ;)

[Tan R Mubarak]

54293 some random western Ukrainians http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=54294&d=1421100592http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=54295&d=1421100792

[Brzęczyszczykiewiczówna]

Polacy i zachodni Ukraińcy - Bracia Na Zawsze! :cool:

Nie wydaję mi się...

[Brzęczyszczykiewiczówna]

lwuw jest polska ))

Racja.
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/359/3/0/polski_lwow___lviv_is_polish_traditional_city_by_n 4020-d5p59sq.jpg

[Rugevit]

Nie wydaję mi się...

Inni Ukraińcy i Polacy tak myślą.

[Brzęczyszczykiewiczówna]

Inni Ukraińcy i Polacy tak myślą.

Naprawdę?
Szczerze, to nikogo takiego nie znam ;D i nie wydaje mi się, że istnieje jakiś powód żeby Ukrainców nazywać "Braćmi na zawsze".

[Rugevit]

Naprawdę?
Szczerze, to nikogo takiego nie znam ;D i nie wydaje mi się, że istnieje jakiś powód żeby Ukrainców nazywać "Braćmi na zawsze".

Zachodni Ukraińcy i Polacy mają podobną kulturę, język, pogląd na świat i mentalność. I bardzo podobny w wyglądzie. Wy jak bracia bliźniacy. ;)

[Brzęczyszczykiewiczówna]

Zachodni Ukraińcy i Polacy mają podobną kulturę, język, pogląd na świat i mentalność. I bardzo podobny w wyglądzie. Wy jak bracia bliźniacy. ;)

...

[Foxy]

54293 some random western Ukrainians http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=54294&d=1421100592http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=54295&d=1421100792

Yes, this rapresents better the avarage western Ukrainians I have met. I think the most diffuse hair colour is between light brown and blonde.

[glass]

Yes, this rapresents better the avarage western Ukrainians I have met. I think the most diffuse hair colour is between light brown and blonde.
look at eyebrows and eyes... dark brown everywhere, some of them even have mustuches.:rolleyes:

[Tan R Mubarak]

I see ,You never seen make up before;)

[Tan R Mubarak]

thats very true. Most ukries got ashy blond hair. From medium blond to dark blond. The secret of darker shades is HAIR Dye

[Rugevit]

Много света , я бы сказал фотография слегка засвечена, что придает светлый тон коже девушек. Кроме того, две блондинки и рыжеволосая в верхнем ряду – крашеные.

[Roy]

thats very true. Most ukries got ashy blond hair. From medium blond to dark blond. The secret of darker shades is HAIR Dye

I doubt it as they strike me as bit darker then Poles and in Poland only minority of adult people is blond and I don't think they ''look Polish'', they look Ukrainian, those girls from Western Ukraine posted by you included. It must be said that they could pass as Polish though.

[John Smith]

Russians.

[Marusya]

look at eyebrows and eyes... dark brown everywhere, some of them even have mustuches.:rolleyes:

Did you know that Americans and British think that Russian women are all fat with mustasches? It's true! And that Russian men are all vodka-drinking, wife-beating alcoholics. We've had a big problem with Russian athletes beating their wives and girlfriends in the West.

[Marusya]

I see ,You never seen make up before;)

He's never seen anything, because according to his screen name he needs "glasses." :D

[Veneda]

Did you know that Americans and British think that Russian women are all fat with mustasches? It's true! And that Russian men are all vodka-drinking, wife-beating alcoholics. We've had a big problem with Russian athletes beating their wives and girlfriends in the West.

Said American woman using English transcription of Russian name

[Rugevit]

Racja.
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/359/3/0/polski_lwow___lviv_is_polish_traditional_city_by_n 4020-d5p59sq.jpg





Polak, zachodni Ukrainec, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki. :)

[glass]

Did you know that Americans and British think that Russian women are all fat with mustasches? It's true! And that Russian men are all vodka-drinking, wife-beating alcoholics. We've had a big problem with Russian athletes beating their wives and girlfriends in the West.
bottom row, first and second from right, second from left would have moustache at age of 40+ or so. I am 99% sure


He's never seen anything, because according to his screen name he needs "glasses." :D
Perhaps you are right, i really need special glasses to find a single blond among 14 females most of whom are ashy blond;)

PS: Marusya, why american of ukrainian/british heritage is using russian pet form of name Maria? Should not you use something that sounds more ukrainian?

[Tan R Mubarak]

this colour is mainly present in Ukr http://www.zachiski.ru/images/cvet_volos_rusyj_foto.jpg http://i.obozrevatel.ua/8/1600891/inner/303553.jpg http://style.pp.ua/images/09-05/15-crimped-636-image.jpghttp://cs9659.vk.me/u17197224/120113867/x_223a51c1.jpg

[glass]

this colour is mainly present in Ukr
none of them would be considered blond in Russia :rolleyes:
Not long ago you said many ukrainians look turkish your words? (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?154953-Could-you-classify-me-please!&p=3293102&viewfull=1#post3293102)
http://s8.postimg.org/cwxo1plrp/ukr.png (http://postimg.org/image/t7xry0y9d/full/)

[Foxy]

look at eyebrows and eyes... dark brown everywhere, some of them even have mustuches.:rolleyes:

Don't play the nordicist game with me, dude.
Ukrainians could be less blonde than Russians but none will get desperate for this, they are still known to be one of the most beautiful people of Europe.
Secondly, in Italy Russian woman is synonimous of slut/prostitute girl using too make up to sell herself. Ukrainian women are more faithful, serious and domestic, Russian women are known only to like parties and easy lives.


thats very true. Most ukries got ashy blond hair. From medium blond to dark blond. The secret of darker shades is HAIR Dye

My bf told me the same. He also told me that Belarusians are blonder, that's why they are called this way: light Russians.
However many Ukrainians like t dye the hair also lighter, especially in eastern Ukraine there is the fashion of dying hair platinum. In western Ukraine they leave hair at natural, some dye it darker too.

More east = more Russian = more slutty, simple and linear like mathematics.

[Foxy]

none of them would be considered blond in Russia :rolleyes:
Not long ago you said many ukrainians look turkish your words? (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?154953-Could-you-classify-me-please!&p=3293102&viewfull=1#post3293102)
http://s8.postimg.org/cwxo1plrp/ukr.png (http://postimg.org/image/t7xry0y9d/full/)

Turks stole many women from southern Europe AND FROM UKRAINE. Read history: Turkish sultans had so many white concubines that saying that sultans themselves were ethnic Turks is wrong as their mothers and grandmothers were often white concubines. It's some Turks to look Euro, not the contrary.
Wanna speak about Russians with mongol eyes?

[Shkembe Chorba]

LALALALALLA NI DAI RUSSKOMU LALLALLLALLALA

http://media.giphy.com/media/sO5A9a4jjDmW4/giphy.gif

[ЛыSSый]

http://media.giphy.com/media/sO5A9a4jjDmW4/giphy.gif dear chorba, can you wtite something about crowds of bulgarian prostitutes in europe? Or you wanna that i will create this theme and you will crying after to admistration that someone don't like bulgarians?

[Brzęczyszczykiewiczówna]

Polak, zachodni Ukrainec, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki. :)

wolę wersję z Węgrami

[glass]

More east = more Russian = more slutty, simple and linear like mathematics.
Some migrants from Ukraine.
Chess player, born in Lvov
Kateryna_Lagno (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kateryna_Lagno)
http://s7.postimg.org/9osqblpkb/lagno2.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Actress from "eastern" Kharkov, Olga Krasko
http://s22.postimg.org/qvcb42gpd/krasko.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


Russian born female chess players who currently compete for team Russia
Valentina Gunina
http://s13.postimg.org/p776w2vcn/gunina.jpg
Natalia Pogonina
http://s10.postimg.org/ylypk5o1l/pogonina.jpg
Tatyana Kosintseva
http://s17.postimg.org/i71fngj0v/kosintseva.jpg[/url]

Turks stole many women from southern Europe AND FROM UKRAINE. Read history: Turkish sultans had so many white concubines that saying that sultans themselves were ethnic Turks is wrong as their mothers and grandmothers were often white concubines. It's some Turks to look Euro, not the contrary.
Wanna speak about Russians with mongol eyes?
How many turks have ottoman ancestry?

[ЛыSSый]

Turks stole many women from southern Europe AND FROM UKRAINE. Read history: Turkish sultans had so many white concubines that saying that sultans themselves were ethnic Turks is wrong as their mothers and grandmothers were often white concubines. It's some Turks to look Euro, not the contrary.
Wanna speak about Russians with mongol eyes? dear detfry, try to understand difference between quantity of women from ukraine and europe: why, how you think, woman from territory of present ukraine were most expensive? Or like this: whom europeans can defence even in present time european woman prefer broken hohol-immigrants?

[Borna]

Polak, zachodni Ukrainec, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki.

Hungarians and Poles are brothers! Not you filthy Hohol!

[Rugevit]

Hungarians and Poles are brothers! Not you filthy Hohol!

I am not Ukrainian.

[Rugevit]

wolę wersję z Węgrami

Czy wiesz że bracia Węgrzy byli Slowianie? Słowaków dawniej nazywano Węgrami.

[Not a Cop]

My bf told me the same. He also told me that Belarusians are blonder, that's why they are called this way: light Russians.


Well that atleast explains why do you write so much nonsense about East Slavs.

Belarus litteraly means white Russia, not light, it can be observed in other languages aswell - Weißrussland, Vitryssland Valko-Venäjä

It comes from western-european separation of Kievian Rus lands - there were White, Black, Red Rus, etc.

Does he also thinks that negroes live in Black Russia, or Americans in Red:D?

[glass]

White means northern, black - southern. Initialy Novgorod and Pskov were WhiteRussia, at some point (14-15 century) such division became obsolete in Russian state but survived in Poland-Lithuania. So northern part of occupied russian territories became WhiteRussia (Belaya Rus), nowadays so called Belarussia.
There were also white croats, white serbs and so on.

[Rugevit]

A common explanation is white rus (Belarus) was that part of Rus that was free of invaders. Main invaders were Tatar-Mongols and Teutons in the west. Belarus was never conquered by Tatar-Mongols or Teutons.

[Rugevit]

Belarusian historian Ales' Bely wrote a book on the origin of the term, which is now in 2nd edition. There's so much on the subject. But it's clear the term 'Belaya' had nothing to do with blondism.

[Not a Cop]

A common explanation is white rus (Belarus) was that part of Rus that was free of invaders. Main invaders were Tatar-Mongols and Teutons in the west. Belarus was never conquered by Tatar-Mongols or Teutons.

Novgorod was also free of invaders, and you don't count Lithuanians as invaders?

[Rugevit]

Novgorod was also free of invaders, and you don't count Lithuanians as invaders?

Known Russian historian Dovnar-Zapolski held the unification of Lithuania and territories of present day Belarus was not by force.

«Присоединение белорусских земель не было насильственным. Это было присоединение с согласия населения по причине очевидной политической выгоды такого союза…Когда Литва подчиняла себе белорусские княжества, то на ее стороне была военная сила. Но литовцы и соседние белорусские княжества были хорошо знакомы друг с другом в результате прежних отношений. Отношения эти были больше мирного характера, чем враждебного Поэтому русское население охотно подчинялось власти литовских князей, которые брали под свою охрану от сильных соседей и прекращали междуусобную борьбу. ... В результате литовцы появились не как завоеватели, а как элемент, который вносил определенный прочный правопорядок в народную жизнь. Само объединение Литвы и Руси являлось результатом не завоевания, но добровольного подчинения белорусских областей Литве» . (http://vln.by/node/150)


Belarusian historian A. Kratskevich was looking for evidence of Lithuanian invasion of present day Belarusian territories and he could not find any suggesting most territories joined Lithuania peacefully.

Я целенаправленно пытался отыскать в источниках хотя бы один факт нападения литовцев на Гродно, Новогрудок, Волковыск, Слоним, — продолжает Кравцевич. — И не нашел. Единственное упоминание есть в "Слове о полку Игореве", которое не является историческим источником Всё это и способствовало возникновению моей концепции образования ВКЛ". (http://ru.delfi.lt/vkl/history/disskusiya-v-minske-raznoe-videnie-istorii-vkl-problema.d?id=61335267#ixzz3NmttPUWP)



There were two important monographs (theses) written on the Grand Duchy of Lithuania during Soviet era by V. Pashuto from Russia (50s) and F. Shabuldo from Ukraine (80s). Both historians were suggesting that expansion of Lithuania was possible because many Ruthenian boyars welcomed them fearing invasion of Tatar-Mongols or wanting to rid of Tatar-Mongols in case of Ruthenian Boyars on Ukrainian territories.

В основе экспансионистской политики правящих верхов Литвы лежали причины как социально-политического, так и экономического характера. Ее конечный результат во многом зависел от позиции влиятельных кругов боярства Юго-Западной Руси и антиордынской активности Великого княжества Литовского. Именно частичное совпадение внешнеполитических целей литовских феодалов и бояр Юго-Западной Руси, гарантирование литовской великокняжеской властью неприкосновенности определенных сословно-классовых привилегий последним, а также открывающиеся перспективы консолидации господствующего класса, укрепления его власти над зависимым населением и усиления феодальной эксплуатации послужили основой их политического сближения, завершившегося признанием местным боярством зависимости от власти великого князя литовского. "Боярство решило судьбу не только белорусских, но и украинских земель, а также смоленских городов и важных новгородских пригородов. Его поддержка обеспечила успех литовскому правительству", - подчеркивал В.Т.Пашуто, указывая при этом, что присоединение отдельных княжеств Руси к Литве "стало возможным лишь при условии признания широких иммунитетных прав за местным боярством" [16]. Склонность местных феодалов к соглашению с правящей верхушкой Литвы достаточно определенно проявилась уже в начале ее наступления на Юго-Западную Русь. Эта тенденция стала доминирующей в отношениях между указанными группами господствующего класса в 40-60-х гг. XIV в., когда военные силы Литвы и княжеств Юго-Западной Руси совместно выступили против Золотой Орды. (http://krotov.info/lib_sec/25_sh/sha/buldo_02.htm)

[Not a Cop]

Known Russian historian Dovnar-Zapolski held the unification of Lithuania and territories of present day Belarus was not by force.

«Присоединение белорусских земель не было насильственным. Это было присоединение с согласия населения по причине очевидной политической выгоды такого союза…Когда Литва подчиняла себе белорусские княжества, то на ее стороне была военная сила. Но литовцы и соседние белорусские княжества были хорошо знакомы друг с другом в результате прежних отношений. Отношения эти были больше мирного характера, чем враждебного Поэтому русское население охотно подчинялось власти литовских князей, которые брали под свою охрану от сильных соседей и прекращали междуусобную борьбу. ... В результате литовцы появились не как завоеватели, а как элемент, который вносил определенный прочный правопорядок в народную жизнь. Само объединение Литвы и Руси являлось результатом не завоевания, но добровольного подчинения белорусских областей Литве» . (http://vln.by/node/150)


Belarusian historian A. Kratskevich was looking for evidence of Lithuanian invasion of present day Belarusian territories and he could not find any suggesting most territories joined Lithuania peacefully.

Я целенаправленно пытался отыскать в источниках хотя бы один факт нападения литовцев на Гродно, Новогрудок, Волковыск, Слоним, — продолжает Кравцевич. — И не нашел. Единственное упоминание есть в "Слове о полку Игореве", которое не является историческим источником Всё это и способствовало возникновению моей концепции образования ВКЛ". (http://ru.delfi.lt/vkl/history/disskusiya-v-minske-raznoe-videnie-istorii-vkl-problema.d?id=61335267#ixzz3NmttPUWP)



There were two important monographs (theses) written on the Grand Duchy of Lithuania during Soviet era by V. Pashuto from Russia (50s) and F. Shabuldo from Ukraine (80s). Both historians were suggesting that expansion of Lithuania was possible because many Ruthenian boyars welcomed them fearing invasion of Tatar-Mongols or wanting to rid of Tatar-Mongols in case of Ruthenian Boyars on Ukrainian territories.

В основе экспансионистской политики правящих верхов Литвы лежали причины как социально-политического, так и экономического характера. Ее конечный результат во многом зависел от позиции влиятельных кругов боярства Юго-Западной Руси и антиордынской активности Великого княжества Литовского. Именно частичное совпадение внешнеполитических целей литовских феодалов и бояр Юго-Западной Руси, гарантирование литовской великокняжеской властью неприкосновенности определенных сословно-классовых привилегий последним, а также открывающиеся перспективы консолидации господствующего класса, укрепления его власти над зависимым населением и усиления феодальной эксплуатации послужили основой их политического сближения, завершившегося признанием местным боярством зависимости от власти великого князя литовского. "Боярство решило судьбу не только белорусских, но и украинских земель, а также смоленских городов и важных новгородских пригородов. Его поддержка обеспечила успех литовскому правительству", - подчеркивал В.Т.Пашуто, указывая при этом, что присоединение отдельных княжеств Руси к Литве "стало возможным лишь при условии признания широких иммунитетных прав за местным боярством" [16]. Склонность местных феодалов к соглашению с правящей верхушкой Литвы достаточно определенно проявилась уже в начале ее наступления на Юго-Западную Русь. Эта тенденция стала доминирующей в отношениях между указанными группами господствующего класса в 40-60-х гг. XIV в., когда военные силы Литвы и княжеств Юго-Западной Руси совместно выступили против Золотой Орды. (http://krotov.info/lib_sec/25_sh/sha/buldo_02.htm)

Well it may have started good and nice but ended in Belarussians being second class citizens of PLC

[Rugevit]

Well it may have started good and nice but ended in Belarussians being second class citizens of PLC

Is that what you are taught in Russia? There was a discrimination of Orthodox community in PLC and old Belarusian language was abolished as a state language of the GDL in 1693. The situation was similar to other ethnicities in PLC , which was a multi-ethnic state. In fact, ancestors of Belarusians were well represented in PLC. Majority of great Lithuanian chancellors (most important political figures in the Great Duchy after Crown) and Great Lithuanian Hetmans (highest ranking commanders) were native to the territories of present day Belarus: http://dodontitikaka.narod.ru/index/0-55

About 10-15% of the population was nobility in Belaurs, which was as high as anywhere in Europe at the time. Nobility were very mixed, but at later stage they were subjected to polonisation. Neither Poles , nor Lithuanians of Belarus were foreigners in Belarus.

[glass]

blah blah blah
Any historian can write anything he/she wants. Any western or eastern slavic ethnicity other than czech, pole, rus is result of foreign occupation. Belarussians are not russians because of lithuanian occupation, western ukrainians are not poles because of russian occupation (10-13 centuries), eastern ukrainians are not russians because of polish occupation, slovaks are not polaks or czechs because of hungarian occupation, western and eastern ukrainians within same nation because of bolshevik's ethnicity building, small west slavic ethnicities is result of german occupation. How was occupation peaceful or brutal is not really important, it was more then enough to cut local population from main body.

btw Pskov invited many lithuanian princes to rule there, yet Pskov was always russian.

[Rugevit]

Any historian can write anything he/she wants. Any western or eastern slavic ethnicity other than czech, pole, rus is result of foreign occupation. Belarussians are not russians because of lithuanian occupation, western ukrainians are not poles because of russian occupation (10-13 centuries), eastern ukrainians are not russians because of polish occupation, slovaks are not polaks or czechs because of hungarian occupation, western and eastern ukrainians within same nation because of bolshevik's ethnicity building, small west slavic ethnicities is result of german occupation. How was occupation peaceful or brutal is not really important, it was more then enough to cut local population from main body.

btw Pskov invited many lithuanian princes to rule there, yet Pskov was always russian.


Princes and royal families were mixed all over Europe in the past. But, wtf? Are you taking drugs or something?

[glass]

Princes and royal families were mixed all over Europe in the past. But, wtf? Are you taking drugs or something?
I could not care less about royals. Some eastern slavs who were supposed to become russians were separated from other eastern slavs and so became different ethnicity. What was main reason of such separation? Lithuanian occupation/conquest/whatever else. What part of this you do not understand?

[Not a Cop]

Novgorod stopped being ever since Ivan IV had it's way with it like it was a 2 euro prostitute, sadly.

I thought that the white-black part took only that Tartar yoke under account. So even if Muscovy was semi-autonomous and was the core that eventually kicked the mongols back to the yurt, it was still considered "occupied". Btw, when did the division into black and white start? I wouldn't be surprised if it started in other Russian states as a way for them to get the high ground over Muscovy who was starting to eat the ones around it.

Actually i once had a conversation with lecturer in my uni who claimed that Novgorod was in great decline by the time of massacre, and so couldn't provide any resistance.

I don't know about the coloured division of Russia very well, but most likely this division came from Western Europe in XV—XVII centuries.

[Not a Cop]

Is that what you are taught in Russia? There was a discrimination of Orthodox community in PLC and old Belarusian language was abolished as a state language of the GDL in 1693. The situation was similar to other ethnicities in PLC , which was a multi-ethnic state. In fact, ancestors of Belarusians were well represented in PLC. Majority of great Lithuanian chancellors (most important political figures in the Great Duchy after Crown) and Great Lithuanian Hetmans (highest ranking commanders) were native to the territories of present day Belarus: http://dodontitikaka.narod.ru/index/0-55

About 10-15% of the population was nobility in Belaurs, which was as high as anywhere in Europe at the time. Nobility were very mixed, but at later stage they were subjected to polonisation. Neither Poles , nor Lithuanians of Belarus were foreigners in Belarus.

I thought i already told it to you, but my grandfather works in Minsk state university, sometimes i visit him in the summer.

I gained my opinion on that matter from him and his co-workers.

And do you mean Szlachta under nobility?

[Rugevit]

I could not care less about royals. Some eastern slavs who were supposed to become russians were separated from other eastern slavs and so became different ethnicity. What was main reason of such separation? Lithuanian occupation/conquest/whatever else. What part of this you do not understand?

What kind of separation are you talking about? Eastern Slavs were always separate.


Monk Nestor in Tales of Bygone Years accounted for different Eastern Slavic and non-Slavic tribes in 1113. So, there was no unifying Russian/Ruthenian ethnicity in 1113. Fifty years later, in the mid of the 12th century the state of Rus was disintegrated (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B4_%D0%94%D1%80% D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0 %BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0% B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0) into many principalities that fought each other.

On hundred years later in 1240, principalities (Pinsk-Turau & Polotsk) on territories of Belarus joined Lithuania, while territories of Ukraine and most of present day territories of European Russia were invaded by Tatar-Mongols. In the mid 14th centuries most of present day Ukraine joined the Grand Duchy of Lithuania after the battle of Blue Waters. Ruthenian and Russian ethnicities were formed in different states between 14-17th centuries. The ethnonym Ruthenian was applied Orthodox people of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, who considered people of Moscow principality as Muscovites. People of Moscow principality were considering themselves Russians.

Eastern Slavs were never a unified group of people. Stop reading Russian propaganda pursuing the expansion of Russia and read history (http://vln.by/node/184) on ethnogenesis of Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians.

[Hevo]

Well that atleast explains why do you write so much nonsense about East Slavs.

Belarus litteraly means white Russia, not light, it can be observed in other languages aswell - Weißrussland, Vitryssland Valko-Venäjä

It comes from western-european separation of Kievian Rus lands - there were White, Black, Red Rus, etc.

Does he also thinks that negroes live in Black Russia, or Americans in Red:D?

Even the term ''Kiev Rus'' was inventend by historians. It's Rus' only.

[Rugevit]

I thought i already told it to you, but my grandfather works in Minsk state university, sometimes i visit him in the summer.

I gained my opinion on that matter from him and his co-workers.

And do you mean Szlachta under nobility?

Opinions on a subject should be formed based on historic facts, which I presented to you. Szlachta was nobility of Belarusian ancestors.

[Not a Cop]

Opinions on a subject should be formed based on historic facts, which I presented to you. Szlachta was nobility of Belarusian ancestors.

Yeah, and historical facts are presented to us by social science and lecturers of Minsk university are ones whom i asked about this question.

[Borna]

Yeah, and historical facts are presented to us by social science and lecturers of Minsk university are ones whom i asked about this question.

Your sources are false, Simargl on the other hand has a time machine to support every idiotic claim he makes.

[Rugevit]

Yeah, and historical facts are presented to us by social science and lecturers of Minsk university are ones whom i asked about this question.

What facts were presented to you? Who were the lecturers presenting to you the facts?

[glass]

accounted for different Eastern Slavic and non-Slavic tribes in 1113.

all of them who did not suffer prolonged foreign rule is now russians

on territories of Belarus joined Lithuania,
all differences because of this, foreign rule

Ruthenian and Russian ethnicities
Ruthenian and russian is as different as finn and suomalainen. Same shit under different names. Lame historians were so lame that could not even geniune name for so called ukrainians and belarussians :rolleyes: So they started to talk about russians who are not russians but russians;)
Also there was no east slavic nobility up to 16 century, there were rurikids and gediminids and later turanid princes entering service

Eastern Slavs were never a unified group of people.
There was only single eastern slavic state up to 1991, Russian state. At beginig russian state controled all eastern slavic tribes and even some western ones. If it was not mongol invasion all eastern slavs would have been just russians now.

[Not a Cop]

What facts were presented to you? Who were the lecturers presenting to you the facts?

Fact of descrimination of Orthodoxy and Belarussian language. Honestly i don't remember the surnames of thoose people. However we started with coloured division of Rus' and now we are heading towards Bulbasrach again, i wouldn't like to get there again, we both know arguments of both positions very well.

[Rugevit]

all of them who did not suffer prolonged foreign rule is now russians

all differences because of this, foreign rule

Ruthenian and russian is as different as finn and suomalainen. Same shit under different names. Lame historians were so lame that could not even geniune name for so called ukrainians and belarussians :rolleyes: So they started to talk about russians who are not russians but russians;)
Also there was no east slavic nobility up to 16 century, there were rurikids and gediminids and later turanid princes entering service

There was only single eastern slavic state up to 1991, Russian state. At beginig russian state controled all eastern slavic tribes and even some western ones. If it was not mongol invasion all eastern slavs would have been just russians now.

There are disturbing stories about drug problems in Russia. Seriously, you must be high.

[Rugevit]

Fact of descrimination of Orthodoxy and Belarussian language. Honestly i don't remember the surnames of thoose people. However we started with coloured division of Rus' and now we are heading towards Bulbasrach again, i wouldn't like to get there again, we both know arguments of both positions very well.

There was a discrimination of Orthodox community in PLC. But not in the GDL prior to formation of PLC. Old Belarusian was stopped from usaage in 17th century. The situation was similar for many ethnicities in PLC. Some ethnicities weren't even using their native languages for writing. There is no bulbasrach. I am presenting historic facts and references from history books, most of which were written by your very own historians.

[Roy]

Fact of descrimination of Orthodoxy and Belarussian language. Honestly i don't remember the surnames of thoose people. However we started with coloured division of Rus' and now we are heading towards Bulbasrach again, i wouldn't like to get there again, we both know arguments of both positions very well.

Not exactly congruent with your topic but ...
I remember that there was one poster from Belarus who claimed to be Roman Catholic or possesing some Catholics in family despite them not being Polish and it was very surprising to me. How common is that phenomenon in Russia or other East Slavic countries? Regarding Poles who lived or still live in Ukraine ... if they had children with Ukrainians then sons were to adopt father's religion & identity and daughters were raised in mother's denomination (Orthodoxy or Greek Catholicism if she was Ukrainian). That's why there are many Polish people of partially Ukrainian descent on Recoverred Territories - some of them are my neighbours, usually it's 1/4 or less albeit there are recent marriages/couples too.

[Tan R Mubarak]

there diif type of ukrainian people. Some of them really look turkish( in a good way),some jewish,asians( roma gipsy) etc but majority I v seen got light,medium hair medium skin tone Talking about Russia . I lived in Moscow,Rostov-na-Don area,been to Voronezh, watched russian movies and blondies I v seen over there usually looked like thathttp://irecommend.ru.q5.r-99.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/copyright/user-images/192464/Qfc4k91pknWijr8ECXsqdQ.jpg the rest just ashy -rusy

[Tan R Mubarak]

it will never end:rotfl:

[Rugevit]

Not exactly on topic but ...
I remember that there was one poster from Belarus who claimed to be Roman Catholic and it was very surprising to me. How common is that in Russia or other East Slavic countries? Regarding Poles who lived in Ukraine ... if they had children with Ukrainians then sons were to adopt father's religion & identity and daughters were raised in mother's denomination (Orthodoxy or Greek Catholicism if she was Ukrainian). That's why there are many Polish people of partially Ukrainian descent on Recoverred Territories - some of them are my neighbours, usually it's 1/4 or less albeit there are recent marriages/couples too.

In the past there were many Roman Catholic Belarusians. There were also many Poles in Belarus. Some were Poles because they were Roman Catholic. Ethnographically and linguistically those Poles were Belarusian. Many people could not understand Polish language properly despite identifying themselves as Poles. The situation is similar nowadays. Poles of Belarus are most Belarusian speaking group of people. 75% of Belarusians were Greek Catholic prior to January 1863 upraising against Tsarist rule. After 1863 Belarusian, Lithuanian, Latgalian schools and press were banned from print and many Belarusian Greek Catholic were converted to Orthodoxy.

Nowadays, both Orthodox and Catholic Christmas held on different dates are public holidays in Belarus.

[Tan R Mubarak]

Well that atleast explains why do you write so much nonsense about East Slavs.

Belarus litteraly means white Russia, not light, it can be observed in other languages aswell - Weißrussland, Vitryssland Valko-Venäjä

It comes from western-european separation of Kievian Rus lands - there were White, Black, Red Rus, etc.

Does he also thinks that negroes live in Black Russia, or Americans in Red:D?
Belarus means White Rus not Russia. Iv been in the train full of belarusian people once. all of them were blond:thumb001:

[Rugevit]

there diif type of ukrainian people. Some of them really look turkish( in a good way),some jewish,asians( roma gipsy) etc but majority I v seen got light,medium hair medium skin tone Talking about Russia . I lived in Moscow,Rostov-na-Don area,been to Voronezh, watched russian movies and blondies I v seen over there usually looked like thathttp://irecommend.ru.q5.r-99.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/copyright/user-images/192464/Qfc4k91pknWijr8ECXsqdQ.jpg the rest just ashy -rusy


This girl dyed her hair. Many Russians have brown hair. Russians stereotype their people , who have rusie volosy i serye glaza (light brown hair and gray eyes) . Ukrainians are marginally darker. But only marginally.

[Tan R Mubarak]

shouldn`t I trust my own eyes? What kind of statistics u talking about?

[glass]

There are disturbing stories about drug problems in Russia. Seriously, you must be high.
i know it is very hard to argue with people from artificial states. They are not being taught to use logic and scientific method, because their "history" and many other things are built around ignoring or even contradicting logic and science.
Dregovichi and radimichi were mentioned last time in middle of 12 century. Who they were between 1150 and 1240 (when they joined Litva)? Rhutenians? Just to remind you, word Rhutenia was unkown prio coronation of prince Daniil :picard1:

[Rugevit]

i know it is very hard to argue with people from artificial states. They are not being taught to use logic and scientific method, because their "history" and many other things are built around ignoring or even contradicting logic and science.
Dregovichi and radimichi were mentioned last time in middle of 12 century. Who they were between 1150 and 1240 (when they joined Litva)? Rhutenians? Just to remind you, word Rhutenia was unkown prio coronation of prince Daniil :picard1:

It's difficult to argue with a group of people who are viewed as aliens in many countries. People who cannot have a civil discussion picking up a fight on a even place. Can you remember yourself engaging in a civil discussion?

Read opinions of professional historians, pick books of historians from different countries if you need to. Stop listening to Russian propaganda that feeds you over eastern Slavic brotherhood. There was no brotherhood in the last 1,000 years. Ancestors of Belarusians probably fought more wars (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D 0%B5_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D1%8B) against people of Moscow principality than Moscovites fought against Tatars. These are historic facts. And let's be frank. You are not viewed as brothers or the similar people. So have some fucking decency and stop that 'brotherhood" and "same people" nonsense for once. Leave it to the politicians.

[glass]

Stop listening to Russian propaganda that feeds you over eastern Slavic brotherhood.
You know that i never engaged in civil conversation, yet you do not know that i am not pan slavist or pan eastern slavist? Neither ukrainians nor belarussians are brothers to me, they are as alien as portuguese. I was always against single east slavic state and still against. You are not good enough to be part of Russian state:rolleyes:
But why would i wonder? Copy pasted arguments, copy pasted bitching. Poor education and unability to argue. I have asked question, give me answear? That what educated individual would do, not you tho. Ancestors of belrussians called themselves russians, that is fact, clowns like you are very easy to start bitching about it :D

[Raven_]

Novgorod was also free of invaders, and you don't count Lithuanians as invaders?

Lithuanians weren't enforcing their language and culture on inhabitants of Belarus, nor there were population replacements. Rulers of GDL depended on support of both pagan and orthodox inhabitants which was reflected in their politics. Later on ethnic Lithuanian and Ruthenian nobility become intermixed to a great degree, so there was no ethnic conflict. They were citizens of GDL, their opponents being Polish who were not allowed to buy land in GDL. When you talk about religious division between Catholic and Orthodox nobility, you talk about the time when Lithuanian nobility was no longer ethnically Lithuanian to a great degree. So, I find it weird that processes within that mixed layer of society are deemed as ethnic-based. Moreover, ancestors of Belarusians called themselves Lithuanian (as in inhabitants of GDL), that was not a forced identity.

[Not a Cop]

Belarus means White Rus not Russia. Iv been in the train full of belarusian people once. all of them were blond:thumb001:

I was using Deftri's terminology.

[Rugevit]

Lithuanians weren't enforcing their language and culture on inhabitants of Belarus, nor there were population replacements. Rulers of GDL depended on support of both pagan and orthodox inhabitants which was reflected in their politics. Later on ethnic Lithuanian and Ruthenian nobility become intermixed to a great degree, so there was no ethnic conflict. They were citizens of GDL, their opponents being Polish who were not allowed to buy land in GDL. When you talk about religious division between Catholic and Orthodox nobility, you talk about the time when Lithuanian nobility was no longer ethnically Lithuanian to a great degree. So, I find it weird that processes within that mixed layer of society are deemed as ethnic-based. Moreover, ancestors of Belarusians called themselves Lithuanian (as in inhabitants of GDL), that was not a forced identity.



Ancestors of Belarusians did not see Lithuanians as foreigners. Slavs and Balts lived side-by-side prior to the formation of the GDL and Mindaugas coronation for around 500 years. The main obstacle was religion. Some Lithuanian Grand Dukes were baptised to Orthodoxy to reconcile with Christians, while retaining pagan names and culture to reconcile with the pagan subjects.

Territories of western Belarus were contested between Volynian principality and Lithuania at some stage. But it is often people with Lithuanian names were becoming the rulers. Principality of Viciebsk and some territories of former Polotsk principality were inherited by Algirdas after he married the daughter of Viciesbk duke Maria. Historians cannot find documented military conflicts on the territory of Belarus between locals and Lithuanians , despite Polotsk principality was one of the strongest principalities in Rus competing against Kiev and Novgorod at some stage. I am not suggesting there weren't any conflicts given that many principalities fought against each other during those time. It's just there are no documented records and many historians believe nobility were welcoming Lithuanian rulers. Lithuanians fought some mportant battles on territories of present day Ukraine and western Russia, but not in Belarus. Lithuania had a strong army , who were seen as protectors from foreign invaders. Something similar happened between Jogailo and Poland when he signed personal union in Krewo in late 14th century. Jogailo was interested in wealth, while Poles were interested in military support of Lithuania on their side against Teutons. As some historians put, ancestors of Lithuanians had a strong army, while ancestors of Belarusians had stone architecture and Christian religion and everything that came with the religion. Many Boyars and some dukes wanted to be friends with their neighbours who had a strong army in the face of foreign enemies coming from the steppes.

[glass]

Historians cannot find documented military conflicts on the territory of Belarus between locals and Lithuanians , despite Polotsk principality was one of the strongest principalities in Rus competing against Kiev and Novgorod at some stage. I am not suggesting there weren't any conflicts given that many principalities fought against each other during those time. It's just there are no documented records and many historians believe nobility were welcoming Lithuanian rulers.
даааа... случай тяжелее, чем я думал
http://annales.info/rus/polock.htm

Глава 1.
Полоцк и литовско-русское государство в XII - начале XV в.

1. Княжение Владимира Полоцкого
Во второй половине XII в. литовцы привлекают внимание русских летописей в связи с их усиливающимися набегами на русские земли и княжества, в особенности на Полотчину. В свою очередь полоцкие князья также совершали ответные походы. Например, полоцкий князь Рогволод Борисович совершил крупную акцию против Литвы,1) в результате чего литовские князья признали вассальную зависимость от Полоцка.

2. Преемники Владимира Полоцкого

Белорусские летописи весьма подробно повествуют о захвате Полоцка литовским князем Мингайлом.

В летописи Рачинского приводится следующее известие: «По смерти отца своего князь великий Мингайло собравши войско свое и пойдет на город Полоцк, ино мужи полочане которые вечем справовалися как великий Новгород и Псков, и наперви прошли к Городцу... (далее летописец описывает завязавшийся бой у Городца. В конце концов Мингайло выиграл сражение)... и зостал великим князем Новгородским и Полоцким, панновал много лет и умер, и оставил по собе двух сынов своих, одного: Скирмонта, а другого Кгинвила, и Скирмонт почнеть княжити на Новегородцы, а Кгинвил на Полоцку, и поиметь Кгинвилл дочку у великого князя Тверского Бориса (далее описывается крещение Гинвилла, получившего христианское имя Борис) и мел с нею сына именем Рогволода, которого назвал русским именем Василий, ...и по нем почнеть княжити сын его Василий в Полоцку, а сам умер. И князь Василий княжечи на Полоцку имел сына Глеба, а дочку Парасковью... а брат его князь Глеб у молодых лет княживши у Полоцку немного лет и вмер.

[Rugevit]

даааа... случай тяжелее, чем я думал

Во-первых речь шла о формировании ВКЛ, которое происходило после коронации Миндовга (1253), а не то о чем ты подумал. Во-вторых, летопись Рачинского (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%8C_% D0%A0%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0 %B3%D0%BE) была написана в 16-ом и 17-ом вв, которая скорее всего ссылалась на легенду Мацея Стрыйковсого (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BB_(%D0%BA%D0%BD %D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8C_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%86% D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9)). То есть разрыв был более 300 лет. В третьих, сходи компоту выпей.

[ЛыSSый]

Polak, zachodni Ukrainec, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki. :) nie piewen
http://cs623825.vk.me/v623825125/19589/WfJ9BqffbhQ.jpg