Grandmother's 23andme results: No AJ but Italian likely

[Siberia62]

Maternal Grandmother confirmed zero % AJ. AJ on my father's side, most likely now. Known ancestry for her: 1/8 Italian, 1/4 Scottish, rest English.

http://anony.ws/i/2014/11/29/GranAC.jpg

http://anony.ws/i/2014/11/29/GranCoA.jpg

http://anony.ws/i/2014/11/29/GranAJa96a8.jpg

Eurogenes K13:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.6
2 Baltic 20.4
3 West_Med 14.73
4 West_Asian 7.76
5 East_Med 3.05
6 Red_Sea 1.34
7 South_Asian 1.23
8 Oceanian 1
9 Amerindian 0.45
10 Sub-Saharan 0.44

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_English 3.68
2 Southeast_English 4.53
3 Irish 5
4 West_Scottish 5.24
5 Orcadian 5.25

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.9% Southwest_English + 6.1% Ossetian @ 1.27
2 94.5% Southwest_English + 5.5% Georgian @ 1.31
3 94.7% Southwest_English + 5.3% Abhkasian @ 1.33
4 94.1% Southwest_English + 5.9% North_Ossetian @ 1.45
5 94% Southwest_English + 6% Adygei @ 1.45

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% South_Dutch +50% West_Scottish @ 3.739649

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.963162

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 2.853384

K15:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_English 3
2 Southeast_English 4.22
3 Orcadian 5.46
4 Irish 5.71
5 North_Dutch 5.85

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.9% Orcadian + 35.1% French @ 2.53
2 90.4% Orcadian + 9.6% Sardinian @ 2.54
3 82.6% Orcadian + 17.4% North_Italian @ 2.66
4 77.8% Orcadian + 22.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.67
5 82.1% Southwest_English + 17.9% West_German @ 2.69
6 97.9% Southwest_English + 2.1% Abhkasian @ 2.72

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +50% Southwest_English @ 3.445693

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% Orcadian +25% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.074985

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.858913


Jtest:

# Population (source) Distance
1 English 4.85
2 Cornish 5.85
3 NL 6.79
4 IE 6.96
5 Orcadian 6.99

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.8% English + 10.2% French_Basque @ 4.18
2 90% English + 10% ES @ 4.5
3 84.8% English + 15.2% FR @ 4.58
4 96.8% English + 3.2% Sardinian @ 4.58
5 91.1% English + 8.9% PT @ 4.59
20 99.7% English + 0.3% Algerian @ 4.85

K36:

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.79%
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.47%
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 1.70%
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 2.99%
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 0.83%
Fennoscandian 9.54%
French 11.87%
Iberian 13.24%
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 13.77%
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 15.35%
North_Caucasian 0.27%
North_Sea 16.99%
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.12%
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 2.16%
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 1.91%


MDLP K23b:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 2.456647
2 Frisian @ 3.413619
3 English @ 3.474676
4 Belgian @ 4.191391
5 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 4.375595
6 English_Kent_GBR @ 4.399317

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Italian_North +25% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.007607

Using 4 populations approximation:
4 Frisian + Irish + Italian_North + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.979055


I certainly think there's some Italian in her though, looking at these results, even though they differ slightly from test to test. Most DNA relatives on 23andme are Scottish & English Americans but also found one Italian 5th cousin from Milan, the very city her great grandfather immigrated from to London in the 1850s. Amazing.

[Nerdryk]

I'm always interested in the genetics of fellow Britons. I actually suspect that if you tested your other three grandparents, the AJ would prove to be illusory, a mere product of the calculator effect*, especially since you state your ancestry is well documented, and even for a Londoner (if that's what you are), AJ ancestry before the late 19th century is rare and pretty much limited to Whitechapel, so if it's there, you and your family would almost certainly know about it. None of the Eurogenes UK sample, or the Kentish or Cornish (amounting to about 100 individuals) have any AJ. Do you cluster with other Britons in European PCAs? AJs are very distinct from Britons genetically, so a genealogical proportion as high as 12.5-25% should take you well out of the British cluster. If you cluster with Britons, the AJ must be either non-existent or much more distant.

*The calculator effect basically makes people using DIY calculators get dodgier results than individuals who are actually used by the genome blogger in creating the calculator. In fact, I'm thinking that your slightly atypical ancestry (i.e. slight Italian) may be amplifying the calculator effect more than usual, because most Britons lack it.

[Nerdryk]

I had a look at some of your other posts re. your genetics. I did see the PCA and it seems the ancestry is real. I would say, though, that you deviated from the English cluster in the direction of Sephardic Jews and some S. Europeans and Middle Eastern populations rather than towards Ashkenazi Jews, so maybe this ancestry is something other than AJ or even SJ. How far back can you trace all of your ancestry without gaps? For example, I know who all of my 32 g-g-g grandparents were, with the exception of the ancestors of my Irish g-grandmother (who was from the middle of nowhere on an island in a lake in the Irish midlands and no doubt all Irish).

[Siberia62]

I'm always interested in the genetics of fellow Britons. I actually suspect that if you tested your other three grandparents, the AJ would prove to be illusory, a mere product of the calculator effect*, especially since you state your ancestry is well documented, and even for a Londoner (if that's what you are), AJ ancestry before the late 19th century is rare and pretty much limited to Whitechapel, so if it's there, you and your family would almost certainly know about it. None of the Eurogenes UK sample, or the Kentish or Cornish (amounting to about 100 individuals) have any AJ. Do you cluster with other Britons in European PCAs? AJs are very distinct from Britons genetically, so a genealogical proportion as high as 12.5-25% should take you well out of the British cluster. If you cluster with Britons, the AJ must be either non-existent or much more distant.

*The calculator effect basically makes people using DIY calculators get dodgier results than individuals who are actually used by the genome blogger in creating the calculator. In fact, I'm thinking that your slightly atypical ancestry (i.e. slight Italian) may be amplifying the calculator effect more than usual, because most Britons lack it.

I had a look at some of your other posts re. your genetics. I did see the PCA and it seems the ancestry is real. I would say, though, that you deviated from the English cluster in the direction of Sephardic Jews and some S. Europeans and Middle Eastern populations rather than towards Ashkenazi Jews, so maybe this ancestry is something other than AJ or even SJ. How far back can you trace all of your ancestry without gaps? For example, I know who all of my 32 g-g-g grandparents were, with the exception of the ancestors of my Irish g-grandmother (who was from the middle of nowhere on an island in a lake in the Irish midlands and no doubt all Irish).

My ancestry on all four grandparents family trees is fairly well-documented. On my Dad's Dad's paternal side I can go back about 6 generations to an individual from Hampshire with my surname. Perhaps earlier origin in Wiltshire. Dad's Dad's Mum's side goes back a few generations but there is something shady there, an unexplained birth or something that I need to clarify with my Dad.

My Dad's maternal grandparents were from up North originally. Birkenhead and Yorkshire I think.

As for my Mother's side: Well her Mother has been tested, and zero AJ as has been confirmed. She's English, Scottish and Italian. Her Father's side; his father was from a rural farming community in Sussex, I think, Norman surname. His Mother.....funny you mention Jews in Whitechapel - she was from the East End of London, with the surname Smith. Whether this being a very generic surname was anglicised from something Jewish, who knows. I have photos of her, she doesn't look particularly Jewish, and her son (my mum's Father) didn't look at all Ashkenazi.

What PCA of me? I saw McDonald's map of where I cluster and it was different in all three samples: One time I was closest to French, another Northern Italian, another Romania. The latter is obviously bullshit.

My nearest ethnicities according to Eurogenes are West German and South Dutch at distances of just over 5, with French not far behind, and Belgian and Frisian at just over 6 according to MDLP.

[Siberia62]

I really do not have a clue about who is Jewish in my ancestry, nor does it bother me. But I am eager to find out an amazing mystery. But my Chromosome X on 23andme is mostly Ashkenazi which means that there MUST be AJ ancestry to some amount in my Mother's Father. Perhaps her father's Mother from the East End was Jewish or part-Jewish, but she produced two children which looked very typically English, including my aunt who was blonde and blue-eyed, so the phenotypes don't correspond to AJ heritage.

On the other hand, my paternal grandfather, where I get my surname from - I'm not gonna lie, he has frizzy hair and looks marginally AJ/SJ, but features wise he has light eyes, a small straight nose and looked somewhat atlantid when he was younger. I'd like to get him or a parent tested but my folks don't trust DNA testing just yet (especially American companies for some reason), and I don't think my Granddad would be willing to get involved. At least my Gran helped, she finds this stuff fascinating and was only too happy to help me and find out all about her ancestry and more for herself.

[Longbowman]

Doesn't look like that Italian ancestry tale is true. Cool results anyway :thumb001:

Doubt it'd be SJ because SJ doesn't come up as AJ. A full SJ might score some AJ (usually around 1/8) due to genetic similarities but the overlap isn't significant. If you scored 25% AJ, you're 25% AJ.

Have you considered that you might be adopted? Or maybe your father was adopted?

[Siberia62]

Doesn't look like that Italian ancestry tale is true. Cool results anyway :thumb001:

Doubt it'd be SJ because SJ doesn't come up as AJ. A full SJ might score some AJ (usually around 1/8) due to genetic similarities but the overlap isn't significant. If you scored 25% AJ, you're 25% AJ.

Have you considered that you might be adopted? Or maybe your father was adopted?

Ok, are you purposely trying to wind me up or are you just proceeding to spew a whole load more utter bullshit at me?

1. "Doesn't look like that italian ancestry tale is true."

Right....despite all this:

1 64.9% Orcadian + 35.1% French @ 2.53
2 90.4% Orcadian + 9.6% Sardinian @ 2.54
3 82.6% Orcadian + 17.4% North_Italian @ 2.66

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Italian_North +25% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.007607

Using 4 populations approximation:
4 Frisian + Irish + Italian_North + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.979055

Plus the fact she picks up 13.77% Italian in K36, has Northern Italian in more Eurogenes/Dodecad 3 and 4 populations approximations, AND the fact that 23andme states she has a fifth cousin in MILAN which is just so the very fucking place our genealogy records show that her great grandfather immigrated from to London in the 1850s.

No, of course, all of that is bullshit. There's no Italian in her whatsoever, but there's certainly 100% chance of me being 1/4 Jewish despite having zero knowledge about any Jewish heritage, just like my parents and my grandparents. Yeah, you're right, I'm a quarter jew and my Gran has no Italian ancestry, you got it.

And the cheek of you to suggest I might be adopted; My parents, especially mother, both look like me and we share similar physical traits. I am not adopted and thoroughly doubt my parents are adopted because they share similar physical traits with their parents.

Yes, we've discovered I detest Zionism, Israel and am not a fan of the cultural Marxism that Jews like you repeatedly peddle, so please take your yiddo agenda elsewhere because I'm fed up of it. I've seen your gedmatch results and you claim you're only 3/8 Jewish.

Funny!!!!

[Longbowman]

Ok, are you purposely trying to wind me up or are you just proceeding to spew a whole load more utter bullshit at me?

1. "Doesn't look like that italian ancestry tale is true."

Right....despite all this:

1 64.9% Orcadian + 35.1% French @ 2.53
2 90.4% Orcadian + 9.6% Sardinian @ 2.54
3 82.6% Orcadian + 17.4% North_Italian @ 2.66

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Italian_North +25% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.007607

Using 4 populations approximation:
4 Frisian + Irish + Italian_North + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.979055

Plus the fact she picks up 13.77% Italian in K36, has Northern Italian in more Eurogenes/Dodecad 3 and 4 populations approximations, AND the fact that 23andme states she has a fifth cousin in MILAN which is just so the very fucking place our genealogy records show that her great grandfather immigrated from to London in the 1850s.

No, of course, all of that is bullshit. There's no Italian in her whatsoever, but there's certainly 100% chance of me being 1/4 Jewish despite having zero knowledge about any Jewish heritage, just like my parents and my grandparents. Yeah, you're right, I'm a quarter jew and my Gran has no Italian ancestry, you got it.

And the cheek of you to suggest I might be adopted; My parents, especially mother, both look like me and we share similar physical traits. I am not adopted and thoroughly doubt my parents are adopted because they share similar physical traits with their parents.

Yes, we've discovered I detest Zionism, Israel and am not a fan of the cultural Marxism that Jews like you repeatedly peddle, so please take your yiddo agenda elsewhere because I'm fed up of it. I've seen your gedmatch results and you claim you're only 3/8 Jewish.

Funny!!!!

You know what? Fuck off, you highly-strung piece of shit. Don't take everything so seriously. I made the comment because she scores no Italian on the ancestry composition. And even if I'm wrong, do I deserve this diatribe? And the constant antisemitism? One more time and I'll have you banned.

[Siberia62]

You know what? Fuck off, you highly-strung piece of shit. Don't take everything so seriously. I made the comment because she scores no Italian on the ancestry composition. And even if I'm wrong, do I deserve this diatribe? And the constant antisemitism? One more time and I'll have you banned.

Lmfao.

No, you made an illogical comment and sounded like a cunt in the process. I've seen you do this before with other people: You emphasis their minority Jewish ancestry a lot and dismiss other ancestries they claim to have. I have my sources.

As for my Grandmother's Italian: So what 23andme didn't highlight it?! 23andme is shit compared to gedmatch and it still mentions southern European and other non-specific Euro; it isn't as in depth nor accurate as gedmatch.

Also....stop crying "anti-Semitism." Kindly show me some evidence that points to overwhelming Semitic ancestry in Ashkenazi Jews, which are around 80% of the world's Jewish population. Jews are more European than Middle-Eastern and have ancestry from the Caucasus region too; I've studied them in depth, so your bullshit accusations of anti-semitism are baseless.

Israel is anti-Semitic considering it happily enjoys cleansing actual Semitic peoples (the Palestinians) from their own land.

Of course, you would ban me. Kaganovich and his Bolshevik Jewish chums never did believe in freedom of speech, and it turns out ancestors of the tribe like yourself are all too keen to follow in their footsteps.

[Longbowman]

Lmfao.

No, you made an illogical comment and sounded like a cunt in the process. I've seen you do this before with other people: You emphasis their minority Jewish ancestry a lot and dismiss other ancestries they claim to have. I have my sources.

As for my Grandmother's Italian: So what 23andme didn't highlight it?! 23andme is shit compared to gedmatch and it still mentions southern European and other non-specific Euro; it isn't as in depth nor accurate as gedmatch.

Also....stop crying "anti-Semitism." Kindly show me some evidence that points to overwhelming Semitic ancestry in Ashkenazi Jews, which are around 80% of the world's Jewish population. Jews are more European than Middle-Eastern and have ancestry from the Caucasus region too; I've studied them in depth, so your bullshit accusations of anti-semitism are baseless.

Israel is anti-Semitic considering it happily enjoys cleansing actual Semitic peoples (the Palestinians) from their own land.

Of course, you would ban me. Kaganovich and his Bolshevik Jewish chums never did believe in freedom of speech, and it turns out ancestors of the tribe like yourself are all too keen to follow in their footsteps.

Listen, dipshit: 85% Orcadian + 15% Italian doesn't mean Italian in the same way it doesn't mean Orcadian. And why no Italian in the countries of origin function? Literally zero? She's not Italian. 13% Italian on K36 also means nothing as anyone scores Italian on K36. You don't understand GEDmatch and you don't understand 23andme and you seem to be bending the evidence to fit your desperate self-image.

Anti-semitism is just a word. The etymology is irrelevant, you pedant. Of course AJs are more European than anything. I'd use Judeophobic but it's not a recognised term. Popularise it for me.

Yeah, we're all communists and I'm censoring you for your 'beliefs,' not because you're an arsehole. That's why I wanted Klaus made a mod.

[Siberia62]

Listen, dipshit: 85% Orcadian + 15% Italian doesn't mean Italian in the same way it doesn't mean Orcadian. And why no Italian in the countries of origin function? Literally zero? She's not Italian. 13% Italian on K36 also means nothing as anyone scores Italian on K36. You don't understand GEDmatch and you don't understand 23andme and you seem to be bending the evidence to fit your desperate self-image.

Anti-semitism is just a word. The etymology is irrelevant, you pedant. Of course AJs are more European than anything. I'd use Judeophobic but it's not a recognised term. Popularise it for me.

Yeah, we're all communists and I'm censoring you for your 'beliefs,' not because you're an arsehole. That's why I wanted Klaus made a mod.

You're stupider than I thought considering you're referring to CoA on 23andme for confirmed, real ancestry. LOL. That is virtually based on DNA relatives you moron. It means very little. If it meant a lot, for someone who's at least 75% non-AJ (myself), why are my top CoA's Belarus, Russia, Poland etc?! Because Ashkenazi Jews have many cousins and they're far over-represented on 23andme DNA relatives, everyone knows this. Wow, you've gone even further downhill in my estimations, and there was me thinking you're at least somewhat intelligent, bah, not any more.

Again, you just keep ignoring the Oracle 4 results, Eurogenes, Dodecad, all the 3 and 4 population approximation fits and the fact she has 23andme cousin from Milan the very place her Great Grandfather is from. Plus, Italian does come up about 8 places down the list in her CoA, numb-nuts.

You've proved nothing tonight but the fact that you're stubborn, incomprehensible and fucking irritating.

I know you're from the North London/Herts area and if I ever see you I'll stomp you're fucking guts out you pretentious little parasite.

[Longbowman]

You're stupider than I thought considering you're referring to CoA on 23andme for confirmed, real ancestry. LOL. That is virtually based on DNA relatives you moron. It means very little. If it meant a lot, for someone who's at least 75% non-AJ (myself), why are my top CoA's Belarus, Russia, Poland etc?! Because Ashkenazi Jews have many cousins and they're far over-represented on 23andme DNA relatives, everyone knows this. Wow, you've gone even further downhill in my estimations, and there was me thinking you're at least somewhat intelligent, bah, not any more.

Again, you just keep ignoring the Oracle 4 results, Eurogenes, Dodecad, all the 3 and 4 population approximation fits and the fact she has 23andme cousin from Milan the very place her Great Grandfather is from. Plus, Italian does come up about 8 places down the list in her CoA, numb-nuts.

You've proved nothing tonight but the fact that you're stubborn, incomprehensible and fucking irritating.

I know you're from the North London/Herts area and if I ever see you I'll stomp you're fucking guts out you pretentious little parasite.

Guess what? You're permabanned. And you couldn't beat me in a fight with one hand tied behind your back. Plus, I'm a police officer. Christ, you're thick.

And you're wrong about your grandmother.