Premarital Sex

[Murphy]

Where do you stand on premarital sex? Is sex outside of marriage completely acceptable or do you view it as immoral and wrong?

Regards,
Eóin.

[The Lawspeaker]

I don't care. Whatever they want. It is their relationship.

[Absinthe]

For me it is not only acceptable but encouraged, to get to know someone inside-out before you proceed into something more serious.

[Black Turlogh]

I would only speak for myself in saying that I don't feel it would be terribly immoral to be intimate with a woman who I truly loved and intended to marry.

[Lysander]

It's overrated, that's all I have to say.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's overrated, that's all I have to say.
Not really. It keeps both partners fit and they also work on knowing each other even better.

Sex is healthy in more then one way.

[Svarog]

Hell yes, there is nothing immoral about having sexual relationships. I can't even understand people going on with it, what does crappy piece of paper changes? It is immoral, and then all of sudden it is completely acceptable?! I am practicing fairly regular sex since i was 17, and in the one period, a year maybe, i did not have any. Was pretty much the worse period since my 17's. I sure am not gonna spend the rest of my life without sex wondering for the right person

[Eldritch]

You don't buy a piggy in a bundle, as we say in this country.

[Freomæg]

Nothing wrong with it. Personally I've only had sex in relationships, but I don't really care what others choose to do. I used to, but I got over it. I see no difference between a committed relationship and a marriage. I'm in a committed relationship with a view to getting married when we can afford it. Nothing will change except we get to have nice big party ;).

[Saxan Starbreeze]

Not that it's immoral or wrong,
it's just disgusting and retarded.

There are a lot of things I could say about it.
Like picking up diseases which lie dormant til you give them to your new husband.
Or having babies before you're married and being ditched by all of the fathers.
Sex is for reproduction,
not to make a fool out of yourself with.
Just be careful, damn.
Just be careful.

[Sally]

As a Catholic, I know that the Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states that premarital sex (fornication is the term they use) is gravely sinful. It would certainly earn me a trip to the confessional! ;)

I do think, though, that sexual sins are singled out too often. There are several other sins mentioned in the Letter to the Galatians that don't receive as much attention, and are equally as damning, such as jealousy, anger, selfishness and envy.

[Absinthe]

Not that it's immoral or wrong,
it's just disgusting and retarded.

How is it disgusting and retarded, to make love with someone before you marry him?

Or would you fancy marrying someone who could turn out to be, e.g. sexually defunct, impotent, and so on and so forth?


There are a lot of things I could say about it.
Like picking up diseases which lie dormant til you give them to your new husband.
Or having babies before you're married and being ditched by all of the fathers.


All that can be prevented with the use of a condom. :wink


Sex is for reproduction,
not to make a fool out of yourself with.

How does one make a fool out of oneself by doing the most natural thing for adult, heterosexual humans to do?

By the way sex was always been for more things than reproduction, one random usage that I can think for is for sacred/ritualistic purposes.


Just be careful, damn.
Just be careful.

Be careful of what? :icon_ask:

[Saxan Starbreeze]

As a Catholic, I know that the Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states that premarital sex (i.e., fornication) is gravely sinful. It would certainly earn me a trip to the confessional! ;)

I do think, though, that sexual sins are singled out too often. There are several other sins mentioned in the Letter to the Galatians that don't receive as much attention, and are equally as damning, such as jealousy, anger, selfishness and envy.

Damn that mermaid in your pic, I'm so jealous of her hair! It makes me so angry I may kill all of the mermaids in the world.

Oops.

:eek:


How is it disgusting and retarded, to make love with someone before you marry him?

Or would you fancy marrying someone who could turn out to be, e.g. sexually defunct, impotent, and so on and so forth?

You could just mess around and not go all the way.

Duh.
And it's not like sex is all that matters in a relationship.
Marriage is about eternal love.

[Black Turlogh]

Marriage is about eternal love.

Ah, to be 18 again... :coffee:

[Absinthe]

You could just mess around and not go all the way.

In my humble opinion one should stick to one principle and follow it all the way:

either no pre-marital sexual activity whatsoever, or having no problem about it.

This messing around without going all the way is a little...eh. Hypocritical :o

(no personal offence, we're just talking)

By the way, you can get STDs from various kinds of "messing around", as well.


Duh.
And it's not like sex is all that matters in a relationship.
Marriage is about eternal love.

Of course not!

In fact for me, sex could be placed on the bottom of the list concerning what matters in a relationship...

Communication would be the first thing I would seek, common interests, mutual understanding, companionship, affection...

But sex would be the factor that would distinguish us from being good friends. And if we're not compatible in that department then what is the point of not being just friends? :thumb001:

[Sally]

Marriage is about eternal love.

Not unless you're a Mormon.

[Saxan Starbreeze]

In my humble opinion one should stick to one principle and follow it all the way:

either no pre-marital sexual activity whatsoever, or having no problem about it.

This messing around without going all the way is a little...eh. Hypocritical :o

(no personal offence, we're just talking)



Of course not!

In fact for me, sex could be placed on the bottom of the list concerning what matters in a relationship...

Communication would be the first thing I would seek, common interests, mutual understanding, companionship, affection...

But sex would be the factor that would distinguish us from being good friends. And if we're not compatible in that department then what is the point of not being just friends? :thumb001:

There's those things you get to do though. Like strawberries and champagne when it rains. Waking up in each others' arms to a kiss on the face and an "I love you." So many beautiful things, which require no sex.

I will state this though.

When me and my boyfriend get hitched if we couldn't have sex, I'd be extremely disappointed.

But of course, I'd still be happy as a lark to be with him forever and ever.

[Cato]

No, as it implies a lack of restraint and self-control. However, one shouldn't make a moral spectacle of one's pre-marital celibacy or denigrate those who don't possess a similar belief. This goes for extra-marital sex as well.

[Saxan Starbreeze]

No, as it implies a lack of restraint and self-control. However, one shouldn't make a moral spectacle of one's pre-marital celibacy or denigrate those who don't possess a similar belief. This goes for extra-marital sex as well.

In this world, virgins at my age in my country could be called even saints :p
American girls are sluts, yo!
High school girls walking around with swollen wombs and baby carriages.
There wasn't enough room in our halls in the first place for these tax-leeches to come in with their whorish selves and soak up every last inch of room.

Too harsh?
Too bad.

[Cato]

The sexual activities of today's children is shameful, but not the fault of the children themselves. Rather, it's a case of poor parenting and a lack of proper role models to emulate. Vacuity seems to be the norm and many young people that I see today seem almost semi-retarded in terms of right and wrong.

[Saxan Starbreeze]

The sexual activities of today's children is shameful, but not the fault of the children themselves. Rather, it's a case of poor parenting and a lack of proper role models to emulate. Vacuity seems to be the norm and many young people that I see today seem almost semi-retarded in terms of right and wrong.

Rotten children come from bad parenting, yes.
But I have only myself to blame for my lack of bad behaviour, as I have refrained from immoral physical contact by means of my own dislike of it.

In other words, I don't like people touching me. >.<

[Grey]

My view on sex is about the same as my view on drugs: There's nothing evil about it, but there's no need to spend your life addicted to it. And personally, I'm too shy to be that way with random people. I wouldn't say marriage needs to be waited for, but at least someone worth being that close to.

I'd never hold anyone else to the same though; this is just my opinion.

I guess I live an accidental straight-edge lifestyle? :D

[Skandi]

Nothing wrong with premarital sex. In fact I would not marry anyone I hadn't slept with. Also sex is very important in relationships, during intercourse both partners produce hormones which help bond the pair together, probably one of the reasons we have sax when no children are possible/desired

[Rachel]

Pre martial sex ... well i knew if i stayed here long enough we would eventually get to the good stuff ;)

IMO, my religion ( Paganism,) teaches that prematrial sex is healthy if done in safe and knowledgeable manner. I had sex on Yule at the age of 16, in the back of a car, and while i don't think it was a mistake it also helped me to understand my body and to get comfortable with what was going on with my body.

I think that having sex is an act for reproducing and pleasure. I feel that sex is a beautiful way of showing some one you love that you love and trust them to see you nude, pretty much reveling everything to this one person. I would never have sex outside of a relationship. I only want to show my body to someone i am dating and am commited to.

Premartial sex for me and only me is okay and is encouraged, it helps reduce stress, is a great activity for cardio and shows love and trust for one's partner.

And that is the what the peanut gallery has to say.

[Svarog]

Not that it's immoral or wrong,
it's just disgusting and retarded.

what? why?

What's disgusting about having sex? Or retarded?


There are a lot of things I could say about it.
Like picking up diseases which lie dormant til you give them to your new husband.
Or having babies before you're married and being ditched by all of the fathers.
Sex is for reproduction,
not to make a fool out of yourself with.

These days you could pick up a disease in a bus, food even hospitals, I still take buses and eat, I mean, you gotta be careful sure, but not paranoid :confused:

I really think you're mixing having sex and promiscuity, or whoring?


Be careful of what? :icon_ask:

A thunder from the sky frying you for dinner ;)


You could just mess around and not go all the way.

AND how is that any better or any different?! :confused:


And it's not like sex is all that matters in a relationship.
Marriage is about eternal love.

On one thing we agree, somewhat - there is so much more in a relationship than sex, but sex is a vital part of it, or should be, once that thing goes wrong, trust me, everything else does.. and I wish you were right about marriage and yet i can't deny the feeling in my head saying it still lives in Celtic fairytales only..

[Beorn]

Nothing wrong with it at all. You become a better lover with practice and experience. Sex is the binding between two people. If that is not there, or is defunct in some manner, then the relationship is perched on a precarious precipice, relying mostly on what should have been built alongside the sexual encounters.

[The Lawspeaker]

Not that it's immoral or wrong,
it's just disgusting and retarded.

There are a lot of things I could say about it.
Like picking up diseases which lie dormant til you give them to your new husband.
Or having babies before you're married and being ditched by all of the fathers.
Sex is for reproduction,
not to make a fool out of yourself with.
Just be careful, damn.
Just be careful.
Sex is for more then that. It also works to bind the couple closer together. That is one of the reasons why having an affair is unforgivable: it damages the bond between the couple so much that a relationship is effectively dead.

[Svarog]

Sex is for more then that. It also works to bind the couple closer together. That is one of the reasons why having an affair is unforgivable: it damages the bond between the couple so much that a relationship is effectively dead.

Yes, but also sex can be just sex, so there is no reason to spoil relationship worked on for years because of a mistake if you're able to work further on it, that's it. Not everything is always black and white, but basically, you're right.

And no, I never ever cheated in my life, not once, I've been cheated on several times and see, while once I was get the hell out of my sight the other time I did my best to get over it because relationship meant damn much to me and did not won't to lose everything cause of pushing and making farm animal voices in drunken condition for probably 10 minutes, tho, did not work out, it did ruin everything, see, some people can forgive, some can't, I can't and wish if I could

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes, but also sex can be just sex, so there is no reason to spoil relationship worked on for years because of a mistake if you're able to work further on it, that's it. Not everything is always black and white, but basically, you're right.

And no, I never ever cheated in my life, not once, I've been cheated on several times and see, while once I was get the hell out of my sight the other time I did my best to get over it because relationship meant damn much to me and did not won't to lose everything cause of pushing and making farm animal voices in drunken condition for probably 10 minutes, tho, did not work out, it did ruin everything, see, some people can forgive, some can't, I can't and wish if I could
Well.. been there too. I remember the days in which I was together with my ex and sometimes you just wanted to curl up together and eat each other alive so to speak.
Sex for the sake of sex. Yes perhaps so-- but only with the one you love. Otherwise I'd actually be bloody scared (even with a condom): one can never be too certain in this world.

[Svarog]

Well.. been there too. I remember the days in which I was together with my ex and sometimes you just wanted to curl up together and eat each other alive so to speak.

Regarding cheating -

..if i remember correctly she told me to go out and do the same just don't tell her about it which pissed me off even more so i said a lot of things including threats involving stabbing, screwdriver and gasoline, so yeah, hopeless, glad I am done with that crap.


Sex for the sake of sex. Yes perhaps so-- but only with the one you love. Otherwise I'd actually be bloody scared (even with a condom): one can never be too certain in this world.

Well, there is nothing to be scared of, and what the hell, if i die because of sex - so be it - could not wish for a better reason, people die for less.

[Cato]

Given that I highly revere Athena, a celibate Goddess, and also am very interested in such belief systems as Stoicism and Mithraism, which taught the mastery of the mind over matter, what can I say? :) I am being consistent with my interests, but I'm not the sort of person who would deny any and all sexuality as a carnal sin. I do not believe in sin per se, merely right choices and wrong choices, knowledge and ignorance and such. People have actually remarked that I seem to have an amazing level of self-control in certain areas. That is, I can quite easily avoid carnal topics, but I still tend to get impatient and spout off at the drop of a hat (hence my choice to follow the life of philo sophia). :D

I find it a bit shameful when I hear people talking to openly about sex as if it is a topic of casual conversation, like sports or somesuch. :eek: I shy away from the popular forms of entertainment, be it football or a loose conversation. :eek:

And, no, avoidance of loose conversation and carnal topics does not imply that I am ignorant. I am very aware of such, ahem, procedures. I was a free-spirited young man once upon a time. :p

[Beorn]

I find it a bit shameful when I hear people talking to openly about sex as if it is a topic of casual conversation

I do as well. I don't mind the discussion of sex when it is conducted with tact and some decorum and has a point ie: A sexual problem or some such, but I do get embarrassed and uncomfortable in the gutter talk I often hear around me. I personally don't want to know how many times they stuck it inside her and how many times she swallowed, or indeed which position makes her 'go like a Dog'. :D

[Murphy]

I do think, though, that sexual sins are singled out too often. There are several other sins mentioned in the Letter to the Galatians that don't receive as much attention, and are equally as damning, such as jealousy, anger, selfishness and envy.

This is a result of Jansenist thought in the Church. The Jansenists held that sex is at the root of most of the evil within man. As you may know, for a long time the Catholic Church was supressed in Ireland and so many Irishmen who would desire to become priests would study abroad in Spain, Italy and France and then sneak back to minister within Ireland.

The Jansenists were very influencial in France where a great many Irish Catholic Priests had studied and been ordained. So Jansenist thought crept into Ireland via these priests. This is the origin of the noted Irish Catholic attitude regarding sex.

Now, the Jansenists were eventually taken care off by the Church, but they had left their mark on Catholicism in Ireland. Even though the Church in Ireland has never really been influencial outside of Ireland-I am not including the Irish missionaries who went into mainland Europe in earlier days-when the Great Hunger hit Ireland and millions of her sons and daughters fled to America, Canada and the United Kingdom, they brought with them a Catholicism that is distinctly Irish.

This is I believe the root of the early conflict within the early Church in America. I speak of the conflict between the Irish Catholic Bishops and the Italian Catholic Bishops. This was not the sole cause of the conflict of course. It is my understanding that Irish Priests and Italian Priests would regularly denounce each other as heretics due to different traditional devotions :P!

Although the conflict was eventually settled, the Church in America has always retained a very distinct Irish character as whole. And the American Bishops are themselves very influencial in the English-speaking Catholic world.

Regards,
Eóin.

[Cato]

I do as well. I don't mind the discussion of sex when it is conducted with tact and some decorum and has a point ie: A sexual problem or some such, but I do get embarrassed and uncomfortable in the gutter talk I often hear around me. I personally don't want to know how many times they stuck it inside her and how many times she swallowed, or indeed which position makes her 'go like a Dog'. :D

Given that I work around many people who are much younger than myself, I tend to hear this sort of talk a lot. It makes me uncomfortable and I usually move away from such conversations or just clam up and keep my thoughts to myself.

[Black Turlogh]

Sex is for more then that. It also works to bind the couple closer together.

Right. Or it could have the reverse effect, which is desensitisation to the importance and sacredness of intimacy and sexuality; a thing easily observed in the modern world. In such cases, a relationship is hollowed and soiled from its beginning.

So a balance must be stricken, I'm sure you'll agree, between understanding sex as an integral and natural part of human relationships, and understanding it as something quite different from a hobby. The trouble is that, in my opinion, too many who feel there is nothing immoral about premarital sex do not find this balance, but favour the latter over the former.

[Hrolf Kraki]

In this world, virgins at my age in my country could be called even saints :p
American girls are sluts, yo!
High school girls walking around with swollen wombs and baby carriages.
There wasn't enough room in our halls in the first place for these tax-leeches to come in with their whorish selves and soak up every last inch of room.

Too harsh?
Too bad.

Nope. Right on the money!

And those two bolded statements are exactly why I'm neither pro-life nor pro-choice, but rather pro-abortion. Save me some damn money!!

[Hussar]

Ah, to be 18 again... :coffee:


God, Yes.......:(

[Inese]

My opinion about premarital sex is that it is total normal. You know, i am not Christian and i dont believe in holy phrases ---- "No sex until marriage!!" and many more of the type. :coffee: People can wait if they want but if they dont want to wait it is okay too!!
For me sex is a important part of a relationship because if you like someone you want to have that wonderful feelings with your partner and your mind and body goes insane in joy , there is no reason to wait for many years until a marriage!! :rolleyes:You love someone and when you love you have feelings and needs! People who push back the feelings and needs for dogmas are taking away some life quality from themselfes. That is what i am thinking. I want to have fun now and not in 10 years --- no one knows what is in 10 years!! :nod

Hm that does not mean i am for sex everyday with people you know only fleeting , there is a very big difference okay?? You never learn out and when i look back i think some sex partners of my past were very bad , it should have never happened with them. :icon_rolleyes: But what can i do its in the past and i will make it better in the future!



Not that it's immoral or wrong,
it's just disgusting and retarded.
What?? :mad: I tell you love and sex are very strong related and both are the most normal things in the world!! Only crazy religions say that normal things are evil and bring you to hell! They destroy all what is fun and normal. Hmm i am sinner in many religions ---- i eat pig and Muslim think it brings you to hell. I have sex before marriage and Christians think it brings you to hell. I eat beef and hinduists think it is bad.... Hm do i think i burn million of years in hell for my very very evil sins?? loool!! :jump0000: No i dont!! Pfff it is my life no own has to give me rules from above.

Just be careful, damn.
Just be careful.
Yes thank, i am very careful of religious fanatics and banners of life quality.:dancing:

[Black Turlogh]

Only crazy religions say that normal things are evil and bring you to hell!

There's nothing crazy about a religion demanding temperance from its followers.

[The Lawspeaker]

There's nothing crazy about a religion demanding temperance from its followers.
It is something unnatural though. Hence it is crazy.

[Lutiferre]

IMO, my religion ( Paganism,) teaches that prematrial sex is healthy if done in safe and knowledgeable manner.
That's not the moral ideal I've heard of in the case of the paganism of my ancestors. There, marriage was certainly an important thing, as important as ever, and girls were many times promised away, which would make premarital sex a disgrace and shame the honour of the family.


I had sex on Yule at the age of 16, in the back of a car, and while i don't think it was a mistake it also helped me to understand my body and to get comfortable with what was going on with my body.
What is that, I feel something bulging out of my throat... *cough*white trash*cough*. Sorry, I had something stuck in my throat.

[Black Turlogh]

It is something unnatural though. Hence it is crazy.

How's that? As far as I can see, the argument that temperance = unnatural = crazy is a logical fallacy.

[The Lawspeaker]

How's that? As far as I can see, the argument that temperance = unnatural = crazy is a logical fallacy.
What indigenous people (not effed up by Christianity) do you know that follows temperance ?

And before Christianity took over our own ancestors didn't seem to have followed (apart from those in the priesthood) the practice either.

[Svarog]

That's not the moral ideal I've heard of in the case of the paganism of my ancestors. There, marriage was certainly an important thing, as important as ever, and girls were many times promised away, which would make premarital sex a disgrace and shame the honour of the family.


I have to agree with this post, most ancient 'pagan' religions did forbid premarital sex and would consider having it a disgrace and shameful, certainly not the Persians or Babylonians but am pretty sure Slavs and Germanic people did.

But times changes just as anything else, even if i were a virgin again I'd still go for sex rather than 'marriage quest'.

[Cato]

Certain early Christian cults taught free love iirc, luft might be able to help me out with this. I'm pretty sure that these groups were as scandalous to the Christians as, say, the Bacchantes, who were kicked out of Rome itself at one point for their practices, were to the ancient pagans.

Moderns who think that paganism was, and is, some kind of free-love movement are wrong or that pagans have no equivalent to Christian or Buddhist celibacy are ignorant of such groups as the Pythagorians and Stoics. Or, in the case of heathen Germanic folk, the severe penalties for adultery (drowned in a bog, for example, the same or similar penalties also applied to male homosexuality).

[Lutiferre]

Certain early Christian cults taught free love iirc, luft might be able to help me out with this. I'm pretty sure that these groups were as scandalous to the Christians as, say, the Bacchantes, who were kicked out of Rome itself at one point for their practices, were to the ancient pagans.

Moderns who think that paganism was, and is, some kind of free-love movement are wrong or that pagans have no equivalent to Christian or Buddhist celibacy are ignorant of such groups as the Pythagorians and Stoics. Or, in the case of heathen Germanic folk, the severe penalties for adultery (drowned in a bog, for example, the same penalties applied to homosexuality).
Exactly. I can only speak about Germanic pagans, for whom premarital sex, adultery and other sexual immorality was certainly not acceptable and as you note, the penalties were not light. It would surprise me if honour killings were unknown to them. Honour was much more important back then, and a disobedient girl who has sex without the permission of the father (to marry) would be in big trouble. People do not seem to understand the grave importance of sexual unions for social structures back then and the seriousness of trespassing these social structures by unmandated sexual activity.

But "paganism" is a retarded word in itself, which means nothing, because there is not and has never been any unitary phenomenon of "pagans". It simply means non-Christians.

[Rachel]

That's not the moral ideal I've heard of in the case of the paganism of my ancestors. There, marriage was certainly an important thing, as important as ever, and girls were many times promised away, which would make premarital sex a disgrace and shame the honour of the family.

What is that, I feel something bulging out of my throat... *cough*white trash*cough*. Sorry, I had something stuck in my throat.


1st Point: how i was raised to be a pagan differs now in the 21st century then in ancient and tribal times.

And 2nd Point, if i am white trash in your eyes so be it, but where i come from and the area in which i grew up i know children in middle school who have had their second kid! So i am quite proud i got to my junior year before spreading my legs.

[Murphy]

So i am quite proud i got to my junior year before spreading my legs.

Wow. It really says so much about American society, in fact society as a whole, when this is an accomplishment.

Regards,
Eóin.

[Lutiferre]

1st Point: how i was raised to be a pagan differs now in the 21st century then in ancient and tribal times.
It doesn't just differ. It has no connection. "Pagan" means simply non-Christian, or in other words, it means nothing for someone who isn't himself a Christian in terms of religious tradition, continuity and content.


And 2nd Point, if i am white trash in your eyes so be it, but where i come from and the area in which i grew up i know children in middle school who have had their second kid! So i am quite proud i got to my junior year before spreading my legs.
:rolleyes:

That would not be the trailer park perchance...

[Cato]

Exactly. I can only speak about Germanic pagans, for whom premarital sex, adultery and other sexual immorality was certainly not acceptable and as you note, the penalties were not light. It would surprise me if honour killings were unknown to them. Honour was much more important back then, and a disobedient girl who has sex without the permission of the father (to marry) would be in big trouble.

But "paganism" is a retarded word in itself, which means nothing, because there is not and has never been any unitary phenomenon of "pagans". It simply means non-Christians.

The sexual escapades of the great heroes are embellishments, and shouldn't be taken to represent ancient paganism as a whole. Sexually morality was different, of course, but the idea that orgiastic displays of lust were ripe in ancient times is patent nonsense. Such activities often filled people with horror, such as when the Roman Senate banished the followers of Bacchus out of the city during pepublican times.

I find pagan an unsavory but useful term. If, for example, I said I'm "a Stoic follower of Athena," in everyday speech, who would really understand me? It's for this reason that I try to follow the advice of Epictetus and avoid metaphysical discourse with those who would misunderstand/misinterpret it.

Also, pagan tends to conjure up images of new age freaks and weirdos in the minds of some, but I'm not really addressing the majority when I use the term pagan or heathen. In the spirit of Alain de Benoist, I merely regard many modern neo-paganisms as a rejection of Judeo-Christian mores rather than an attempt to [re]create paganism anew in a world seriously in need of metaphysical guidance. This is the position taken by Anton LeVay, the indulgence in sensual pleasures as a means to reject Jehovah and the religious foundations of the Bible.

[Svarog]

Exactly. I can only speak about Germanic pagans,

As for the Slavs, it depends, some myth says that we were rather, hmmm, free people that likes to do it a lot and most Slavic magic are actually based on a sexual magic and rituals. Some myths even describes sex being the most important thing, tho, not whoring, most of them says between one guy and one girl so still kind of different.

However, other and more likely to be true myths said that adultery and sex with more than one partner was considered a shame and a disgrace, such woman would no one ever want to marry and man that'd do that would be expelled from the village, and no other tribe would want him in.

Those are all pretty much stories, but, what I know is that in Serbia, only 100 years ago, premarital sex was unacceptable, as for the guys there is no real way to find out did he or did he not have it but girls that were not virgins would really have a tough time in life.

[Hussar]

It is something unnatural though. Hence it is crazy.


Maybe a person involved in such problems should be brave and rational enough to start a deep reflection about his/her own belief and decide if he/she wants still practicing THAT religion. If that faith is the most compatible with his/her personality and spirit.

You can't ask a church to change too much its principles. But you can leave THAT church, if it's your will. You're a human being and you can choice. Nobody can force you and a church isn't a prison.

[Lutiferre]

As for the Slavs, it depends, some myth says that we were rather, hmmm, free people that likes to do it a lot and most Slavic magic are actually based on a sexual magic and rituals. Some myths even describes sex being the most important thing, tho, not whoring, most of them says between one guy and one girl so still kind of different.

However, other and more likely to be true myths said that adultery and sex with more than one partner was considered a shame and a disgrace, such woman would never want to marry and man that'd do that would be expelled from the village, and no other tribe would want him in.

Those are all pretty much stories, but, what I know is that in Serbia, only 100 years ago, premarital sex was unacceptable, as for the guys there is no real way to find out did he or did he not have it but girls that were not virgins would really have a tough time in life.
Don't misunderstand me. Sex was certainly important, in fact, extremely important, and it continued to be so in Christian times, too. But I am speaking of a social and political importance.

As I said:

People do not seem to understand the grave importance of sexual unions for social structures back then and the seriousness of trespassing these social structures by unmandated sexual activity.

[Svarog]

Don't misunderstand me. Sex was certainly important, in fact, extremely important, and it continued to be so in Christian times, too. But I am speaking of a social and political importance.

Nah, I did not misunderstood you mate, you're right, I am just talking from, hmm, folklore and I won't say 'pagan' view on premarital sex and sex in generally.

I don't give a damn for church or myths, I do how I think it is the right, and certainly don't care if I end in hell for having sex or eating too much, I am not sitting on a cold sidewalk tho, so I am a good boy after all.

[Lutiferre]

I would say it's rather because sex is considered as unimportant (in the larger sense, politically and socially) today, which is a side-effect of the dissolution of tightly-knit community life, than because it's important, that loose sexual behaviour is seen so lightly.

[Psychonaut]

*cough*white trash*cough*. Sorry, I had something stuck in my throat.

Do not use personal insults in highbrow sections of the forum.


There, marriage was certainly an important thing, as important as ever, and girls were many times promised away, which would make premarital sex a disgrace and shame the honour of the family.

Would you mind providing a citation for this? Pre-Christian Germanic views on premarital sex varied widely depending on which tribe at which point you're talking about. Those that did punish premarital sex almost exclusively punished the female, leaving the male participant with no social stigma (I'm thinking of the Burgundians especially here).


Where do you stand on premarital sex? Is sex outside of marriage completely acceptable or do you view it as immoral and wrong?

The one thing that I hope to impress on my children is that, yes, sex is fun, sex can help build strong relationships, etc. However, it is not wise to have sex with someone who you are not prepared to have a child with. Birth control is pretty effective, but it can and does fail. I'd rather not see my children faced with the horrible decision of choosing between having a child when they're not economically/psychologically ready for it and having an abortion (neither of which are desirable in the least). I don't condemn it at all, but I do think that contemporary views are a bit too flippant and don't treat the subject with enough gravity.

[Cato]

The notion that the ancients were happy-go-lucky swingers is wrong. Sexual values differed, but not entirely so. The fables of the great Gods presented the deities in an often unflattering light, but there were many who regarded the lusty exploits of the Gods as so much nonsense or in an allegorical manner.

However, this raises the question of "If the Gods behaved in such a way, what of their followers?" People will tend to follow the example of their divine heroes and heroines, a fact not lost on the critics of [the lower forms of] paganism.

[Lutiferre]

Do not use personal insults in highbrow sections of the forum.
Sorry. It was a spontaneous reflex after hearing a certain sentence.


Would you mind providing a citation for this? Pre-Christian Germanic views on premarital sex varied widely depending on which tribe at which point you're talking about. Those that did punish premarital sex almost exclusively punished the female, leaving the male participant with no social stigma (I'm thinking of the Burgundians especially here).
Of course they punished the female. I was almost exclusively speaking of females, myself. I took the example of the social structure around fathers promising their daughters away and the need for the fathers consent (etc). In a society with arranged marriage (like most tribal societies) sexual promiscuity will shame the honour of your family and could easily lead to something like an honour killing or another severe punishment or alienation from the community. I was speaking in general terms, of course.

[Svarog]

slight offtopic -

What's funny is that I often here from Americans terms - white thrash, trailer thrash etc while in Europe and Serbia rich kids are more likely to act decadent than poor kids, like, most of the sluts that I know are daddy's girls with tons of cash and most men-whores that I know are also sitting on loads of cash. Also, whenever i got a close encounter with European sluts they usually were rich kids/tourists etc.

Now, I either got trailer thrash term wrong or Europe and USA really differ even more than I thought

[Lutiferre]

slight offtopic -

What's funny is that I often here from Americans terms - white thrash, trailer thrash etc while in Europe and Serbia rich kids are more likely to act decadent than poor kids, like, most of the sluts that I know are daddy's girls with tons of cash and most men-whores that I know are also sitting on loads of cash. Also, whenever i got a close encounter with European sluts they usually were rich kids/tourists etc.

Now, I either got trailer thrash term wrong or Europe and USA really differ even more than I thought

There are Serbian immigrant girls in Denmark which would qualify for "white trash".

[Cato]

White trash isn't a term that's unique to the U.S. It's a mentality and lifestyle that whites possess, like niggers are to black people.

[Svarog]

There are Serbian immigrant girls in Denmark which would qualify for "white trash".

And the point is?

Want me to tell you stories and experiences about Danish, English, French etc girls that comes to my town in July on some techno festival?

Decadence see no nationality.

[Lutiferre]

And the point is?
I think you summarized it pretty well yourself:


Want me to tell you stories and experiences about Danish, English, French etc girls that comes to my town in July on some techno festival?

Decadence see no nationality.

[Lutiferre]

White trash isn't a term that's unique to the U.S. It's a mentality and lifestyle that whites possess, like niggers are to black people.
I would say the white trash phenomenon in specific has been imported from the U.S. to Europe into various European incarnations.

[Cato]

I would say the white trash phenomenon in specific has been imported from the U.S. to Europe into various European incarnations.

Such as whiggers? Slack-jawed yokel types don't strike me as being very European, but I've seen Russian whiggers, whiggers from the UK, etc.

[Frigga]

How do I feel about premarital sex?

I see nothing wrong with sex outside of marriage. I do however do not think that sleeping around with every Tom, Dick or Harry that a woman may meet at a bar on a Saturday night is to be admired. Sex should be between two people who are commited to each other, whether it is marriage, or a live in relationship, which I am in right now. I don't feel that my relationship is any less bindiing or committed because we haven't had the official ceremony. We still feel for each other just the same.

The same goes for men as well. I do not approve of the concept of sexual conquest that a lot of modern men seem to think it is, is a good thing. Men need to learn patience with women, and to learn creative coping practices until the relationship is ripe for copulation.

[Inese]

There's nothing crazy about a religion demanding temperance from its followers.
Hm you call it temperance and i call it restriction! :rolleyes: But please do you see that they want to achive your temperance with threats and a life in hell!!!? And that is very very wrong! :mad: They say very natural things and needs are sins and get punished very bad , they put fear into the people. I ask what is wrong when a couple want to exchange endearments and more?? Hellooo that are normal human feelings and human needs! And how do we call things who are against human feelings? You know , inhumane is the word!! :sad_shakefist:

[Cato]

Hm you call it temperance and i call it restriction!

Patient you must learn to be young Padawan. Lack of self-control, leads to the Dark Side it does.

[Inese]

Patient you must learn to be young Padawan. Lack of self-control, leads to the Dark Side it does.

Dark side is cooler!! :embarrassed

[The Lawspeaker]

Patient you must learn to be young Padawan. Lack of self-control, leads to the Dark Side it does.
Learn English you must. ;)


But I agree with her. It is restriction. I do think that people should be very careful with sex though as it should be a sign that a couple is really committed to each other. And preferably use contraception.

I even think that children born before marriage are legitimate children. One of the reasons for that is that the father can not run off and leave the woman with the child.

[Cato]

Dark side is cooler!! :embarrassed

The Dark Side, tempting it is.

[Hrolf Kraki]

Hm you call it temperance and i call it restriction! :rolleyes: But please do you see that they want to achive your temperance with threats and a life in hell!!!? And that is very very wrong! :mad: They say very natural things and needs are sins and get punished very bad , they put fear into the people. I ask what is wrong when a couple want to exchange endearments and more?? Hellooo that are normal human feelings and human needs! And how do we call things who are against human feelings? You know , inhumane is the word!! :sad_shakefist:

We call them Christians.

[Psychonaut]

Insanely strict social taboos on premarital sex lead to the creation of absolutely insane innovations (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,560241,00.html?test=latestnews).

[Lutiferre]

Hm you call it temperance and i call it restriction! :rolleyes: But please do you see that they want to achive your temperance with threats and a life in hell!!!?Of course it's a restriction, just like it's a restriction to say that a man cannot have sex with any woman he likes any time he wants (rape).

Just like it's a restriction to say that the feeling of aggression doesn't necessarily make killing alright, then it's also a restriction to say that the feeling of horniness doesn't necessarily make sex alright.

It only does so within the right context, and killing is even good in the right context, like when you have to defend your family for instance, killing an aggressor cancels out an evil.

But it does not mean that you can kill people only if you have their consent; their consent is not enough. It has to be mandated by the context (defense of others; self-defense; war).

In the same way, you cannot have sex just because you have a 12 year old girls consent, or any girl; it needs to be in the right context (marriage).


And that is very very wrong! :mad: They say very natural things and needs are sins and get punished very bad. What is wrong when a couple want to exchange endearments and more?? Hellooo that are normal human feelings and human needs! And how do we call things who are against human feelings? You know , inhumane is the word!! :sad_shakefist:
The feeling is indeed simply a drive toward reproduction which is healthy, but the question is how you handle your feelings as a human. If you just feed into it, then they will start taking over. You need temperance to be in control over your feelings.

[Svarog]

What kind of tires me is the point of view where MEN are the only one that wants sex, look for it on every corner, are horny as hell with some sexual conquest etc, it is ridiculous, women are as bad as we are, it takes two to have sex (or more but that is really up to a taste and likes), but in the end it's always the man that looks bad in whole picture (something similar to the views that guys that sleeps with a lot of girls is a hero and girls that sleep with a lot of guys is a slut), it is really getting old.

When girls talk about it looks as if we force them to have sex with us while they don't really want that, many times, I met girls that were way more horny than me or any of my male friends.

They explain it as 'women are passionate beings', bullshit, we're all animals with instincts and I am sick of fake moral already.

[Inese]

The Dark Side, tempting it is.

From booooring weeenie!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1960000/images/_1960624_anakin.jpg

to cool man!! :cool:
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/media/images/anakin-skywalker.jpg

[Cato]

We call them Christians.

I'm far from being a Christian, but I have to agree with them on certain points regarding human sexuality. Man is uplifted when he uplifts himself. Sex can either be the beautiful culmination of human pair-bonding or an act of beastly copulation.

[Cato]

From booooring weeenie!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1960000/images/_1960624_anakin.jpg

to cool man!! :cool:
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/media/images/anakin-skywalker.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8015/190816-167380-darth-raven_large.jpg

Darth Revan owns Darth Vader.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan

*Back on-topic*

[Sally]

Before the Council of Trent, I thought I read somewhere that sexual relations began with the betrothal, and there was even a formal betrothal ceremony. Back then, the betrothal or engagement carried more weight, and fertility was (obviously) more central to the meaning of marriage. The Church wedding, many times, took place when the woman was already pregnant.

[Lutiferre]

Before the Council of Trent, I thought I read somewhere that sexual relations began with the betrothal, and there was even a formal betrothal ceremony. Back then, the betrothal or engagement carried more weight, and fertility was (obviously) more central to the meaning of marriage. The Church wedding, many times, took place when the woman was already pregnant.
Though betrothal is essentially what happens at a wedding ceremony today.

[Murphy]

Before the Council of Trent, I thought I read somewhere that sexual relations began with the betrothal. Back then, the betrothal or engagement carried more weight, and fertility was (obviously) more central to the meaning of marriage. The Church wedding, many times, took place when the woman was already pregnant.


Betrothal

The giving of one's troth — that is, one's true faith or promise. Betrothal, in the Catholic Church, is a deliberate and free, mutual, true promise, externally expressed, of future marriage between determinate and fit persons. It is a promise, compact, or agreement — not merely an intention; and, like all contracts, it must be entered into with deliberation proportionate to the obligation which it begets; it must be free from force, substantial error, and grave fear. The promise given must be mutual; a promise on the part of one only, with acceptance by the other, does not constitute a betrothal. The consent, of course, as in all contracts, must be true, or sincere, not feigned; it must be given with the intention of binding oneself, and this intention must be expressed verbally, by writing, or by action, in person or by proxy. Lastly, this contract, like matrimony, can exist only between two definite persons whose capacity is recognized by the Church; that is, between whom there is no matrimonial impediment, either as regards the licitness or validity of the contract. The betrothal is a promise of future marriage, and hence it differs from the marriage contract itself, which deals with that state as in the present.

FORMALITIES

Formal betrothal is not customary in the United States, or in English-speaking countries generally, as it is among certain nations, where the ceremony is sometimes solemn (before ecclesiastical witnesses) and sometimes private (made at home before the family or friends as witnesses). Among English-speaking peoples the betrothal, if it occurs, is generally without the presence of a third party. In Spain (S. C. C., 31 January, 1880; 11 April, 1891) and in Latin America (Acta et Decreta Conc. Pl. Amer. Lat., p. 259, in note 1) a betrothal compact is considered invalid by the Church unless written documents pass between the contracting parties. This practice obtains in other countries also, but its observance is not necessary to validate the agreement.

EFFECTS

A valid betrothal begets chiefly two effects. There arises first an obligation in justice, binding the contracting parties to keep their agreement; viz. to marry at the time specified; or, when the date of marriage is not agreed upon, whenever the second party to the compact reasonably demands the fulfillment of the marriage-promise. Marriage, consequently, with a third party is forbidden, though not invalid. There arises, secondly, owing to an ecclesiastical law, a diriment impediment, known as "public decency", extending to relatives in the first degree of the parties betrothed. Hence, a marriage contracted between the male party to a betrothal and the mother, sister, or daughter of the other party; and, vice versa, between the woman and the father, brother, or son of the man, would be null and void. This impediment continues to exist in all its force, even after the betrothal has been legitimately dissolved. The first of these effects, an obligation of justice, may arise, it will be seen, from a betrothal compact which has not all the essentials of the definition given above; not so, however, of the second effect. It is sometimes stated that a betrothal does not bind in English-speaking countries. This is inexact, to say the least. There is no exception at any time, or in any country, to the binding force arising from a valid betrothal, even though it be not public (S. C. S. Off., 11 Aug., 1852), or to the impediment begotten thereby. Engagements very frequently, though not always, are rather proposals of matrimony than promises as explained above, and in them an essential element of the betrothal is wanting (Sabetti, Theol. Mor., n. 838, qu. 30; Kenrick, Theol. Mor., nos. 23, 37).

DISSOLUTION

A betrothal may be dissolved: (1) By the mutual and free consent of the contracting parties. (2) By a diriment impediment, which subsequently arises between said parties. In this case the innocent party is released form his or her obligation, but not the one through whose fault the impediment arose. The latter may be held to the contract, if the impediment be such that the Church can dispense from it. (3) By a valid marriage entered into with a third person. (4) By protracted delay on the part of either of the contracting parties in fulfilling the agreement to marry, in which case the innocent party is released from obligation. (5) By one of the contracting parties choosing a higher state of perfection, as for example by solemn profession in a religious order, by the reception of major orders, etc. (6) By any notable change in body or soul or worldly state of one of the parties — any grave circumstance which if it had happened or been known before the betrothal would have prevented it. To these may be added the impossibility of contracting matrimony, and a dispensation granted by the pope for just causes.

PROCEDURES FOR BREACH OF PROMISE

In case of refusal to complete the contract by marriage an action before the diocesan court is permissible. Bishops, however, are counseled not ordinarily to enforce marriage in such cases, as generally it would prove unhappy. In English-speaking countries these matters are, as a rule, taken into the civil courts, where the only remedy is a breach-of-promise suit, the penalty being a fine. In the United States, before the civil law, betrothal has only the moral force of a mutual promise. Betrothal in England was once a legal bar to matrimony with another; at present the only legal remedy for the violation of the betrothal is an action for breach of promise.

HISTORY

Jewish and Roman laws and customs must have influenced the early practice of the Church anent betrothal. The Jewish laws of marriage, and consequently of betrothal, were based in a great measure on the supposition that it was a purchase. In the law of Moses there are certain provisions respecting the state of the virgin who is betrothed, but nothing particularly referring to the act of betrothal. Selden's "Uxor Hebraica" gives the schedule of later Hebrew contracts of betrothal. Where the contract was in writing, it was written out by the man before witnesses and delivered to the woman, who must know its import. Rome, on the other hand, at the beginning of the Christian Era, had ceased to consider marriage as a wife-purchase. Marriage, and still more betrothal, was a purely civil compact, verbally concluded.

Under later Roman law, which constituted a basis for our ecclesiastical legislation, betrothal was looked upon simply as a contract of future marriage, stronger indeed than the engagement, since to enter into a second betrothal compact was held to be as infamous as bigamy itself. No legal forms were prescribed for the early Roman betrothal, but the compact was generally accompanied by the man's sending to the woman the iron betrothal ring (annulus pronubus). As the Empire grew in importance, so did the betrothal contract, while at the same time its obligations were more frequently disregarded. Hence the practice of giving earnest-money, or pledges of fidelity (arrhoe), came into prominence; another step led to gifts being bestowed by the parties, one upon the other. The kiss, the joining of hands, and the attestation of witnesses were other elements introduced. Even in England formal engagements of this kind were common down to the time of the Reformation. As barbarian influence, however, began to affect the Empire, the betrothal took on more the semblance of wife-purchase.

The Church, at the beginning of the third century at the latest, recognized betrothal as a perfectly valid and lawful contract. In the fourth century, in Africa at least, according to the testimony of St. Augustine (Sermo viii, 18; Sermo xxxvii, 7; Sermo cccxxxii, 4, etc.), espousals were contracted in writing, the instrument (tabulae), signed by the bishop, being publicly read. At the same time the dowry, if any, was given, or nuptial gifts were exchanged. Pope Benedict I (573-577), writing to the Patriarch of Gran, declares that it is connubial intercourse that makes two one, that mere betrothal would not prevent a man from entering into wedlock with the sister of his betrothed. The question of relationship, then, arising from the betrothal contract was mooted even at that early period. Gregory the Great (590-603) allowed a woman who was betrothed to dissolve her engagement in order to enter a convent (Bk. VI, Ep. xx).

At the end of the ninth century betrothal had become a very frequent subject of Church legislation. From a reply of Pope Nicholas to the Bulgarians in 860 (Responsa ad Consulta Bulgarorum, c. iii) it is apparent that the preliminaries leading up to a marriage in the Church were: (1) The betrothal or espousal; the expression of consent by the contracting parties, and the consent also of their parents, or guardians, to the projected marriage. (2) The subarrhatio, or delivery of the ring by the man to the woman by way of an earnest, or pledge. (3) The documentary transfer, by the man to the woman, of the dowry, in the presence of witnesses. The marriage was to follow immediately, or after an interval more or less protracted. These rites are still recognized in modern uses. The ceremony of betrothal is found in a measure in the present nuptial service. There is a declaration of consent, which, since the marriage follows immediately after, is de praesenti. The placing of the ring on the finger of the bride by the bridegroom constitutes the subarrhatio, while in many places transferring of the dowry is represented by a medal or coin — a relic of Salic law and of wife-purchase. (See Martene, De Antiq. Ecc. Ritibus, I, ix, a. 3, n. 4, speaking of a ritual of the Church of Reims.)

Sorry, I have no source for this :(!

Regards,
Eóin.

[Loki]

Sex before marriage? Not even worth discussing. It is sex (or the lack thereof) after marriage which should be the massive topic as it is way more important. ;)

[RoyBatty]

Where do you stand on premarital sex? Is sex outside of marriage completely acceptable or do you view it as immoral and wrong?

Regards,
Eóin.

It's fine by me. There's nothing immoral about it. It becomes "immoral" when people behave like sluts.

[Jamt]

Young Scandinavian women have rolled around on the hay lofts and at dances at the summer meadow for thousands of years. Against the expressed desire of the fathers and the local community witch always valued fidelity. But such is human nature and we dealt with it.

Now we have one different way in dealing with it in Sweden, something called “balcony girls” where Mid Eastern young women accidentally fall to their death from apartment buildings after coming under suspicion from their male relatives or after refusing to marry dad’s brother.

[RoyBatty]

You could just mess around and not go all the way.

Duh.
And it's not like sex is all that matters in a relationship.
Marriage is about eternal love.

I'd send such a girl straight home to her mama and get a real gf if she tried that bs with me, lol :D

As for eternal love, life ain't always going to turn out like a Disney movie. Yes, we'd all like it to but it just doesn't necessarily work that way, despite the best intentions and the best laid plans.

[RoyBatty]

Sex is for more then that. It also works to bind the couple closer together. That is one of the reasons why having an affair is unforgivable: it damages the bond between the couple so much that a relationship is effectively dead.

Nothing's unforgivable. Yes betrayal sux but at some point one ought to get over one's self and those "hurt feelings" unless the intention were to lose one's partner. If a relationship can be salvaged it ought to be salvaged unless there were no interest from either party to do so.

[Murphy]

Oh, I almost forgot to add my view on the issue.


As a Catholic, I know that the Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states that premarital sex (fornication is the term they use) is gravely sinful. It would certainly earn me a trip to the confessional! ;)

Sally speaks for me here. I believe that premarital sexual relations are greatly immoral and constitute a mortal sin. I don't think I can say it anymore simpler than that :D!

Regards,
Eóin.

[Tony]

Dark side is cooler!! :embarrassed

:eek:

I'm apalled!

dark side=swarthy side!

[Tony]

Oh, I almost forgot to add my view on the issue.



Sally speaks for me here. I believe that premarital sexual relations are greatly immoral and constitute a mortal sin. I don't think I can say it anymore simpler than that :D!

Regards,
Eóin.
I remind you that for a catholic also masturbation is a sin...:rolleyes:

[Black Turlogh]

What indigenous people (not effed up by Christianity) do you know that follows temperance ?

Again, this runs in line with the logical fallacy you first brought to light. What seems natural is not inherently right, Lawspeaker. I hope you can see this.

To respond to your question more directly: there are no writings, to my knowledge, that outright express in certain terms what the pre-Christian Irish view on temperance was. There was, on the other hand, a rather clear-cut system of honour that resembles in many regards the much later idea of chivalry.

I ask, instead, what civilised people have ever regarded gluttony of any kind, even in the most elementary of forms, a virtue?


And before Christianity took over our own ancestors didn't seem to have followed (apart from those in the priesthood) the practice either.

I don't see why that would matter, to be honest with you. Or do you maintain all the practices of pre-Christian Europeans, under the belief that they are inherently right? Been sacrificing humans lately, have you?

In the end, you and I have very different concepts of morality. I don't reject Catholic morals as being something in any way foreign to Ireland, but embrace them as an aspect of my identity from which there's no part. I don't need to look back in time to see if my ancestors were a gluttonous lot to determine whether or not gluttony is wrong.

[Aemma]

Ah, to be 18 again... :coffee:

No thanks...I prefer being a grown up. :rolleyes:

[Inese]

:eek:

I'm apalled!

dark side=swarthy side!
No Pallamedes was refering to Star Wars universe and the dark side is not a pysical trait , it is a ideology!! For many political correct people we Apricity member are at the dark side for our views you know?? :rolleyes:

[Murphy]

I remind you that for a catholic also masturbation is a sin...:rolleyes:

I am perfectly aware that masturbation is a sin.. you have a point?

Regards,
Eóin.

[Loki]

I am perfectly aware that masturbation is a sin.. you have a point?

Regards,
Eóin.

Slightly curious here ... if/when you have committed that sin, do you have to go the confessional and tell the priest about it?

[Black Turlogh]

No thanks...I prefer being a grown up. :rolleyes:

:tongue

As for myself, there are many woes I am with today as an adult that I was not with as a boy. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

[Murphy]

Slightly curious here ... if/when you have committed that sin, do you have to go the confessional and tell the priest about it?

Of course :).

Regards,
Eóin.

[Loki]

Of course :).

Regards,
Eóin.

Okay I know you and Lutiferre are going to crucify me for saying this, but I'm going to say it in any case:

Is it any surprise then that many Roman Catholic priests end up molesting young boys? :rolleyes: I mean ... masturbation is a very common pastime in the life of any young man ... those who say they never do it lie. And those who say they rarely do it lie also. Now imagine ... these priests have to sit in the confessional boxes day by day, hearing thousands of detailed confessions of teenage boys' masturbation fantasies. :rolleyes: This is not normal. :coffee:

[Murphy]

Okay I know you and Lutiferre are going to crucify me for saying this, but I'm going to say it in any case:

Is it any surprise then that many Roman Catholic priests end up molesting young boys? :rolleyes: I mean ... masturbation is a very common pastime in the life of any young man ... those who say they never do it lie. And those who say they rarely do it lie also. Now imagine ... these priests have to sit in the confessional boxes day by day, hearing thousands of detailed confessions of teenage boys' masturbation fantasies. :rolleyes: This is not normal. :coffee:

There are no disproportionate rates of paedophillia in the Catholic Church compared to the rest of society, so I would thank you not to claim that many Catholic priests turn into sexual predators. Such cases are in a very firm minority. So you cannot say that priests hearing confessions of sexual sins to be cause of a sexual predator's crimes.

What do you think is the cause of a father molesting his son, or a Protestant minister molesting young boys in his charge?


And those who say they rarely do it lie also.

I rarely do it, and that isn't a lie :confused:!

Regards,
Eóin.

[Phlegethon]

There's those things you get to do though. Like strawberries and champagne when it rains.

I do strawberries and champagne without even thinking of sex. Whipped cream, too! ;)

[anonymaus]

In the immortal words of Frank Booth:

Let's FUCK! I'll fuck anything that moooves!

http://i35.tinypic.com/v5hil0.jpg

[Phlegethon]

Pre martial sex ... well i knew if i stayed here long enough we would eventually get to the good stuff ;) .

Yeah, my saying! Pre-martial sex! Sex is war!

No, wait, you are just dyslexic. Nevermind!

[Smaland]

God does not restrict the sexual practices of Christians in order to make their lives miserable. He does so because they are sinful, and need to be restrained for their own good.

In Genesis 18, God has appeared to Abraham before He proceeds towards Sodom. Abraham has persuaded Him to pause for something to eat, before He continues on His way:


9 "And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.

10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.

12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?

13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?

14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

Genesis 18:9-14, KJV

God did not find fault with Sarah about sexual pleasure, because we are made for that. He only wants Christians to have the self-control to wait for a spouse.

[Tony]

No Pallamedes was refering to Star Wars universe and the dark side is not a pysical trait , it is a ideology!! For many political correct people we Apricity member are at the dark side for our views you know?? :rolleyes:
I know Inese , mine was a boutade :)


I am perfectly aware that masturbation is a sin.. you have a point?

Regards,
Eóin.
Are you telling me that untill you're get married you won't get involved in any sexual stuff?:rolleyes:

[Murphy]

Are you telling me that untill you're get married you won't get involved in any sexual stuff?:rolleyes:

That is exactly what I am saying.

Regards,
Eóin.

[RoyBatty]

Yeah, my saying! Pre-martial sex! Sex is war!


Oi!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeVigBavITg

[Lysander]

Not really. It keeps both partners fit and they also work on knowing each other even better.

Sex is healthy in more then one way.

So you would not agree that over sexification of western society is one of its main problems?

It disgusts me.

I for one will not take any part of it.

[Hrolf Kraki]

So you would not agree that over sexification of western society is one of its main problems?

It disgusts me.

I for one will not take any part of it.

Natural processes disgust you? You'll not take part in sex? Maybe you're asexual? :p

[Lysander]

Natural processes disgust you? You'll not take part in sex? Maybe you're asexual? :p

I was talking about the over sexification "do many chicks and you are cool".

[Phlegethon]

Disgust is not a sign of asexuality, but antisexuality.

[Tony]

So you would not agree that over sexification of western society is one of its main problems?

It disgusts me.

I for one will not take any part of it.
One less rival , thank you.

[Hrolf Kraki]

I was talking about the over sexification "do many chicks and you are cool".

Ah ok. That makes more sense. :thumb001:

[Aemma]

So you would not agree that over sexification of western society is one of its main problems?

It disgusts me.

I for one will not take any part of it.

Why such strong language? I don't get this. Sex is as natural as breathing. It's what the human animal does and nope sorry young ones, it is NOT only for procreation. We're a much more complex and sophisticated animal than that. There is absolutely nothing disgusting about sex in the end unless it is performed for malicious intentions. But as a human response to so many dimensions of the human condition, there is nothing inherently bad and much less disgusting with respect to sex.

[Lysander]

Why such strong language? I don't get this. Sex is as natural as breathing. It's what the human animal does and nope sorry young ones, it is NOT only for procreation. We're a much more complex and sophisticated animal than that. There is absolutely nothing disgusting about sex in the end unless it is performed for malicious intentions. But as a human response to so many dimensions of the human condition, there is nothing inherently bad and much less disgusting with respect to sex.

No, not per se. Read my other post.

[Hrolf Kraki]

Why such strong language? I don't get this. Sex is as natural as breathing. It's what the human animal does and nope sorry young ones, it is NOT only for procreation. We're a much more complex and sophisticated animal than that. There is absolutely nothing disgusting about sex in the end unless it is performed for malicious intentions. But as a human response to so many dimensions of the human condition, there is nothing inherently bad and much less disgusting with respect to sex.

I think he was referring to the idea that youth should have sex with as many partners as possible. This ideal is propagated by the entertainment industry as normal.

[anonymaus]

http://arrachetachemise.qc.ca/archive/feels-good-head-0.png

maybe this says it better (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=109761&postcount=100). :D

[Aemma]

I think he was referring to the idea that youth should have sex with as many partners as possible. This ideal is propagated by the entertainment industry as normal.



Then this is an entirely different issue imo. It has little to do with sex per se but more so promiscuity/sexual behaviour.

[Tony]

I think he was referring to the idea that youth should have sex with as many partners as possible. This ideal is propagated by the entertainment industry as normal.
But please tell him and the other young ones that there's a laarge spectrum between a sexual maniac/whore and an asexual person.

[Lysander]

But please tell him and the other young ones that there's a laarge spectrum between a sexual maniac/whore and an asexual person.

Bah.

People today have no self control. Giving in to every temptation they get, weaklings.

[Tony]

Okay I know you and Lutiferre are going to crucify me for saying this, but I'm going to say it in any case:

Is it any surprise then that many Roman Catholic priests end up molesting young boys? :rolleyes: I mean ... masturbation is a very common pastime in the life of any young man ... those who say they never do it lie. And those who say they rarely do it lie also. Now imagine ... these priests have to sit in the confessional boxes day by day, hearing thousands of detailed confessions of teenage boys' masturbation fantasies. :rolleyes: This is not normal. :coffee:
This is a thesis brought on the web by Calpurnpiso*

_4Wn6ErGgTw

I think it's a bit over the line and that's stuff used by anti-christian biased people , one can't generalize in that manner but there's definitely a point , in my view (all) religions , overall , overrate the importance of sex , they put sex stuff above all.
To me true sins are others.

*Don't take that character too seriously , in his videos he commits a lot of historical errors

[Lysander]

I think it's a bit over the line and that's stuff used by anti-christian biased people , one can't generalize in that manner but there's definitely a point , in my view (all) religions , overall , overrate the importance of sex , they put sex stuff above all.
To me true sins are others.

Well unfortunately you can't nit-pick in religion and take out the parts that you don't like.
Religion is politically incorrect, but we don't care.

[Phlegethon]

Well unfortunately you can't nit-pick in religion and take out the parts that you don't like.

Of course you can. They labeled it Wicca. ;)

[Tony]

Well unfortunately you can't nit-pick in religion and take out the parts that you don't like.
Religion is politically incorrect, but we don't care.
I'm not a Catholic right because I don't want to be a part Catholic or a half Catholic , there are too many things I don't believe in and never got , by the way neither I'm a maniac or a promiscuos person , parents are enough , you don't need a priest or a Bible to understand that it doesn't make sense to change partner every saturnday , having sex with prostitutes or even worse , getting involved in gay/trans sex.

[Lysander]

I'm not a Catholic right because I don't want to be a part Catholic or a half Catholic , there are too many things I don't believe in and never got , by the way neither I'm a maniac or a promiscuos person , parents are enough , you don't need a priest or a Bible to understand that it doesn't make sense to change partner every saturnday , having sex with prostitutes or even worse , getting involved in gay/trans sex.

Who said you needed a bible or a priest for it?


Of course you can. They labeled it Wicca. ;)
Heard of it but never really looked into it so can't say...

[Tony]

Who said you needed a bible or a priest for it?

If you're catholic you have to confess your acts to the priest and he will tell you wether they're sins and in the case they are how you can find remedy , to make it short.

[Lysander]

If you're catholic you have to confess your acts to the priest and he will tell you wether they're sins and in the case they are how you can find remedy , to make it short.

Yes, but who said you needed a priest to understand that a promiscuous life style is a bad idea?

[Svarog]

There are no disproportionate rates of paedophillia in the Catholic Church compared to the rest of society

Beside the fact that the rest of the society is much bigger mass of people than priests, so when you compare number of people and child molesters and number of priests and child molesters results are rather uneven.

I am lucky I am not Catholic, priests would have to listen a lot of stuff from me I am not very fond on sharing, I mean, c'mon, if I were you, I would really hope Heaven is the hell of a place :D

[Atlas]

I see nothing wrong with it, neither do I care about women or men who go for casual sex.

[Murphy]

Beside the fact that the rest of the society is much bigger mass of people than priests, so when you compare number of people and child molesters and number of priests and child molesters results are rather uneven.

I wasn't trying to compare things in the sense of pure weight of numbers.

In the United States for example, available research suggests that approximately 2 to 5% of priests have had a sexual experience with a minor (i.e., anyone under the age of 18). There are approximately 60,000 active and inactive priests and brothers in the United States and thus we can estimate that between 1,000 and 3,000 priests have sexually engaged with minors. That's a lot. In fact, that is 3,000 people too many. Any sexual abuse of minors whether perpetrated by priests, other clergy, parents, school teachers, boy-scout leaders or anyone else in whom we entrust our children is horrific. However, although good data is hard to acquire, it appears that this 2 to 5% figure is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is lower than the general adult male population that is best estimated to be closer to 8%. Therefore, the odds that any random Catholic priest would sexually abuse a minor are not likely to be significantly higher than other males in or out of the clergy.

I think I should also add that 80 to 90% of all priests who in fact abuse minors have sexually engaged with adolescent boys not prepubescent children. Thus, the teenager is more at risk than the young alter boy or girls of any age. Technically, the vast majority of priest sex offenders are not pedophiles at all but are ephebophiles. This may seem like an irrelevant semantic difference but the implications for prevention and treatment are enormous. Furthermore, this suggests that parents of teenage boys should be more concerned about sexual abuse by priests than parents of girls or prepubescent children of either gender.


I am lucky I am not Catholic, priests would have to listen a lot of stuff from me I am not very fond on sharing, I mean, c'mon, if I were you, I would really hope Heaven is the hell of a place :D

I hope for Heaven, but that is not why I am a Christian.

Regards,
Eóin.

[Tony]

Yes, but who said you needed a priest to understand that a promiscuous life style is a bad idea?
Seemed to me you meant that , throu the lines , that you're catholic and therefore have a regular approach to sex while the others , because they aren't catholics , are some sort of perverts.

[Lysander]

Seemed to me you meant that , throu the lines , that you're catholic and therefore have a regular approach to sex while the others , because they aren't catholics , are some sort of perverts.

Hah. Not at all.
Sex is not perverse by any means.

[Skandi]

why are most of the nay sayers twenty or under? does it make a good excuse for not being laid?

You know, little MISS here, has better things to be doing than reading this thread, although it does give me ideas, good night folks!

[Phlegethon]

I am well over 20.

[Svarog]

I am well over 20.

Yes, but you are different than, well, most humans.

[Murphy]

why are most of the nay sayers twenty or under? does it make a good excuse for not being laid?

That's ours, what is yours?

Regards,
Eóin.

[Grumpy Cat]

A priest and a rabbi are sitting together.

The priest asks the rabbi "Why don't you eat pork?"

The rabbi responds "Because it's against my religion. Why don't you have premarital sex?"

The priest responds "Because it's against my religion".

The rabbi says "You should try it, it's better than pork".

[Tony]

why are most of the nay sayers twenty or under? does it make a good excuse for not being laid?
1-0 for Thrymheim

That's ours, what is yours?

Regards,
Eóin.
1-1

[Hrolf Kraki]

Well unfortunately you can't nit-pick in religion and take out the parts that you don't like.

Exactly. And that's why it's best to simply abandon the entire doctrine.

[Hrolf Kraki]

Yes, but who said you needed a priest to understand that a promiscuous life style is a bad idea?

I don't think it's a bad idea in of itself, but there are often times bad consequences which stem from such a lifestyle (i.e. disease, pregnancy).

However, one can keep those in check if precautions are taken and you're not going to bed with every random woman you meet.

[Mesrine]

Is sex outside of marriage completely acceptable(...)?

F*CK YEAH!

[Germanicus]

When buying a car a man takes it for a test drive.:)

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/000727088.jpg

[Aemma]

When buying a car a man/woman takes it for a test drive.:)

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/000727088.jpg

:p

[The Lawspeaker]

In other words, I don't like people touching me. >.<
"thinks" Something happened to this girl....

[Svarog]

When buying a car a man/woman takes it for a test drive.

And I would chose to be that test car, that buyers test all the time but never get sold :)

[The Lawspeaker]

And I would chose to be that test car, that buyers test all the time but never get sold :)
Manwhore. :coffee:;)

[Svarog]

Manwhore. :coffee:;)

:p

[Lysander]

Exactly. And that's why it's best to simply abandon the entire doctrine.
Fortunately I am not that weak. I can control myself, my religion guides me through my life and since I became a religious Catholic my life has been steadily improving.
I wouldn't abandon it for anything, least of all fleshly urges.

[Germanicus]

Every woman i have ever bedded, (except my exwife)has gave IT up on the first date, the sex before marriage is not just a mans fixation to pursue, to have.
Sex is on the brain of women as soon as they meet a prospective partner, give me any woman, and they will agree with me and say it is true.:coffee:

[Phlegethon]

Nah, it is an island ape thingy. Reflected in your teenage pregnancy statistics.

[Germanicus]

Nah, it is an island ape thingy. Reflected in your teenage pregnancy statistics.


Germanicus peers at Phlethy behind a shrub, and says "very interesting, but very stupid":coffee:

[Osweo]

There's those things you get to do though. ... Waking up in each others' arms to a kiss on the face
So you regularly sleep with someone, and do everything but that, and think you haven't had 'sex'? :confused:

To be honest, I was in a situation not too different for a long while. Not too horrendous, but we still thought we were having 'sex'!

pushing and making farm animal voices in drunken condition for probably 10 minutes,
Man, I got to get me a ticket to Нови Сад to learn how you odd-balls do it! :p Sounds quite ... anthropological...

when i look back i think some sex partners of my past were very bad ,
:eek:
Good GOD, girl, HOW old are you?!? :eek:

I'm an old prude, and think perhaps Starbreeze's system IS the sensible option for under-21s. From then on it's just silly to follow this rule, but for the younger ones, why not? If they insist in getting into bed in their teens... :(

[Black Turlogh]

To be honest, I was in a situation not too different for a long while. Not too horrendous, but we still thought we were having 'sex'!

You can thank these for that:

http://2fm.rte.ie/blogs/colm_jim_jims_blogggggg/socks-sandals.jpg

[Svarog]

Oswiu - you're most welcome to visit, I'll show you 'around' :P

[Osweo]

Oswiu - you're most welcome to visit, I'll show you 'around' :P
Ура!

And will the above footwear be considered 'exotic' and 'sexy' to the Srbki? :p

[Osweo]

You can thank these for that:

http://2fm.rte.ie/blogs/colm_jim_jims_blogggggg/socks-sandals.jpg

Um, I'm RACKING my brains to work out what the uncropped version of that photo could POSSIBLY be?!? :D

Not one from your own personal album, Thorlaikr Dubh? :eek:

[Black Turlogh]

Um, I'm RACKING my brains to work out what the uncropped version of that photo could POSSIBLY be?!? :D

Not one from your own personal album, Thorlaikr Dubh? :eek:

That's a style only the great Oswiu could pull off, me thinks.

Besides, judging by that beast of a man's legs, he could kill me in one punch.

[Svarog]

Ура!

And will the above footwear be considered 'exotic' and 'sexy' to the Srbki? :p

Will, with those socks on, you're surely gonna attract a look or two but with no socks, that's 'in' these days, i have exactly the same ones :D

Wait - exotic and sexy ?

If you consider sex with a man exotic then might be! :eek:

j/k

(see - in every sentence and everywhere there is space for exotic AND sexy! )

[Rachel]

Yeah, my saying! Pre-martial sex! Sex is war!

No, wait, you are just dyslexic. Nevermind!

It's true. I can only spell when i have my Mac computer how sad is that ????

[Saxan Starbreeze]

Graaaaghaghrghh... -stirs from her slumber-

[Lutiferre]

Okay I know you and Lutiferre are going to crucify me for saying this, but I'm going to say it in any case:

Is it any surprise then that many Roman Catholic priests end up molesting young boys? :rolleyes: I mean ... masturbation is a very common pastime in the life of any young man ... those who say they never do it lie. And those who say they rarely do it lie also. Now imagine ... these priests have to sit in the confessional boxes day by day, hearing thousands of detailed confessions of teenage boys' masturbation fantasies. :rolleyes: This is not normal. :coffee:
Well, in my experience, the more sexually active you are, the more your greediness for sexual satisfaction grows. The less sexually active, the more the need settles and become smaller because you get used to it and your body adjusts.

It adjusts according to your mindset. If you constantly think about sex, your need for it and your activity will grow. But if you don't, then your need for it will be smaller, as well.

So it's a matter of theosis through ascesis, the spiritual struggle for self-control and elevation above beasts into the divine nature which is freedom from such compulsions.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well, in my experience, the more sexually active you are, the more your greediness for sexual satisfaction grows. The less sexually active, the more the need settles and become smaller because you get used to it and your body adjusts.

It adjusts according to your mindset. If you constantly think about sex, your need for it and your activity will grow. But if you don't, then your need for it will be smaller, as well.

So it's a matter of theosis through ascesis, the spiritual struggle for self-control and elevation above beasts into the divine nature which is freedom from such compulsions.
Seriously. Rubbish. I haven't had a sexual relationship for years now. And guess what ? When I get a girlfriend with whom I get a serious relationship I will feast like someone who has been starved.

[Lutiferre]

Seriously. Rubbish. I haven't had a sexual relationship for years now. And guess what ? When I get a girlfriend with whom I get a serious relationship I will feast like someone who has been starved.
You haven't had a sexual relationship for years.

I said sexual activity.

So am I to believe this means you haven't had any sexual activity for years?

[The Lawspeaker]

You haven't had a sexual relationship for years.

I said sexual activity.

So am I to believe this means you haven't had any sexual activity for years?
With sexual activity I mean sexual intercourse. You know: sex is a lot more then the orgasm. That's one of those things that you young people never seem to understand.
It is the act of being together with someone while being involved in this very intimate business.

[Lutiferre]

With sexual activity I mean sexual intercourse. You know: sex is a lot more then the orgasm. That's one of those things that you young people never seem to understand.
It is the act of being together with someone while being involved in this very intimate business.
I'm quite aware of that. I was speaking about the growing of sexual urges, and that means also the urge to be together with someone else sexually, in connection to how such urges grows with any sexual activity at all, and with any thoughts which slowly buld up a mindset which constantly is oriented toward attaining such a sexual union.

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm quite aware of that. I was speaking about the growing of sexual urges, and that means also the urge to be together with someone else sexually, in connection to how such urges grows with any sexual activity at all, and with any thoughts which slowly buld up a mindset which constantly is oriented toward attaining such a sexual union.
That hasn't changed at all. Still as strong.

[Lutiferre]

That hasn't changed at all. Still as strong.
What hasn't changed at all?

My point was that if you are sexually active, even with yourself, even in your mind, or with your body (autoeroticism), it doesn't detract anything from this growing in orientation towards sex.

That's what I meant with sexual activity. I didn't mean you actually have to have sex with someone else for your lust for sex to grow. In truth, you only have to think about it.

[The Lawspeaker]

What hasn't changed at all?

My point was that if you are sexually active, even with yourself, even in your mind, or with your body (autoeroticism), it doesn't detract anything from this growing in orientation towards sex.

That's what I meant with sexual activity. I didn't mean you actually have to have sex with someone else for your lust for sex to grow. In truth, you only have to think about it.
O.K Let me try to explain this to a virgin like yourself:

What is sex ? Well - sex is a lot more then just "making a child" or "getting an orgasm".
Having sex with someone is a form of union. Psychical, mentally and spiritually. It is the act of completely surrendering yourself to your partner in the act of love making and complete surrender to you of your partner who is dedicated to the same "idea" at that moment.

Whereas autoeroticism also known as masturbation temporarily releases some of the psychical pressure it does not relieve you from the spiritual and mental need to be one with someone you love.

[Lutiferre]

O.K Let me try to explain to a virgin like yourself:

What is sex ? Well - sex is a lot more then just "making a child" or "getting an orgasm".
Having sex with someone is a form of union. Psychical, mentally and spiritually. It is the act of completely surrendering yourself to your partner in the act of love making and complete surrender to you of your partner who is dedicated to the same "idea" at that moment.
I know. Read what I said again - I was speaking of the desire to attain a sexual union and what makes this desire grow. I gave a few examples of that, autoeroticism and thinking about sex being two.


Whereas autoeroticism also known as masturbation temporarily releases some of the psychical pressure it does not relieve you from the spiritual and mental need to be one with someone you love.
And again, I know. It does not relieve that need, it increases your orientation toward attaining it because it makes your body and mind used to the sexual satisfaction which is (without doubt) itself oriented towards union with another human being.

[The Lawspeaker]

I know. Read what I said again - I was speaking of the desire to attain a sexual union and what makes this desire grow. I gave a few examples of that, autoeroticism and thinking about sex being two.
And you actually say this like this is something unnatural ? :coffee:



And again, I know. It does not relieve that need, it increases your orientation toward attaining it because it makes your body and mind used to the sexual satisfaction which is (without doubt) itself oriented towards union with another human being.
And you say this like I would be more likely to go into a bed with just about everyone.:coffee:

[Lutiferre]

And you actually say this like this is something unnatural ? :coffee:
No, I did not? What I said has nothing to do with whether it's unnatural or natural..


And you say this like I would be more likely to go into a bed with just about everyone.:coffee:
No... I did not...

[The Lawspeaker]

No, I did not? What I said has nothing to do with whether it's unnatural or natural..
Then the way in which you describes it makes it sound like you consider it to be unnatural and sinful.


No... I did not...
Likewise. That is most definitely not the case.

[Saxan Starbreeze]

Then the way in which you describes it makes it sound like you consider it to be unnatural and sinful.


Likewise. That is most definitely not the case.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c114/munkmunk04/my%20pictures/pwnd.jpg

[Lutiferre]

Then the way in which you describes it makes it sound like you consider it to be unnatural and sinful.
Whether I consider it so is irrelevant to my statement, which was not about what I consider right and wrong, but simply human psychology and psychoplasticity.

[Jamt]

That hasn't changed at all. Still as strong.


Lutiferre just tried to explain that if you have sex daily you are in greater need than if you have not ejaculated for a period of time. Your urges tend to calm down from abstinence. It’s a fact.

[The Lawspeaker]

Lutiferre just tried to explain that if you have sex daily you are in greater need than if you have not ejaculated for a period of time. Your urges tend to calm down from abstinence. It’s a fact.
That's actually also a cock and bull story. :D
It didn't help those priests did it during their life of abstinence ?

[Aemma]

Well, in my experience, the more sexually active you are, the more your greediness for sexual satisfaction grows. The less sexually active, the more the need settles and become smaller because you get used to it and your body adjusts.

It adjusts according to your mindset. If you constantly think about sex, your need for it and your activity will grow. But if you don't, then your need for it will be smaller, as well.

So it's a matter of theosis through ascesis, the spiritual struggle for self-control and elevation above beasts into the divine nature which is freedom from such compulsions.

But we're meant to be "divine beasts" Lutiferre. :)

[Lutiferre]

Lutiferre just tried to explain that if you have sex daily you are in greater need than if you have not ejaculated for a period of time. Your urges tend to calm down from abstinence. It’s a fact.
Not exactly as simple as that. Its also just if you are mentally sexually active, that is, if you think about sex a lot, your desire and urge to be sexually together with someone will increase.

It's like a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger and bigger it gets.

And like a muscle, you can either use it or lose it.

That's actually also a cock and bull story. :D
It didn't help those priests did it during their life of abstinence ?
It does. Most monks and priests that live celibately do reduce their sexual urge by being less mentally and physically active with regards to sex. Not just Christian monks, but Buddhist ones as well.

Instead, they detach themselves from fleshly desires through prayer and meditation. This applies to food as well (fasting).

The few that don't are a small minority, which has been greatly exaggerated by the media.

[The Lawspeaker]

Not exactly as simple as that. Its also just if you are mentally sexually active, that is, if you think about sex a lot, your desire and urge to be sexually together with someone will increase.

It's like a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger and bigger it gets.

And like a muscle, you can either use it or lose it.

It does. Most monks and priests that live celibately do reduce their sexual urge by being less mentally and physically active with regards to sex. Not just Christian monks, but Buddhist ones as well.

Instead, they detach themselves from fleshly desires through prayer and meditation. This applies to food as well (fasting).

The few that don't are a small minority, which has been greatly exaggerated by the media.
I don't believe that as sex as a natural urge. What they are doing is not reducing it - they are repressing it.
Actually in the Middle Ages one of the reasons why people respected the clergy so much is because they thought that a lack of sexual activity could cause illness and even insanity. That's also a reason why widows and widowers remarried only months after the late spouse had passed away.
So the people thought that "those clergy are brave because they willingly risk it".

I actually believe that the people in the Middle Ages were on to something. For me the lack of a stable relationship and a normal healthy sex life causes periods of depression.
Celibacy, voluntary or involuntary, is completely unnatural.

So here's my advise to you: leave the religious stuff for when you are older and married. Get a girlfriend, get yourself laid and see life from the sunny side. :coffee::D

[Loddfafner]

I think some of the participants in this thread should try premarital sex before condemning it.

[Lutiferre]

I don't believe that as sex as a natural urge. What they are doing is not reducing it - it is repressing it.
But it's a fact that the less you actively stimulate your sexual urges, the less they become. It's a fact not only of the psychoplasticity that I can personally attest to from experience, but also of the physical plasticity which applies to neural structures (neuroplasticity) as well as to muscles.

The fact that you have no cognition of this plasticity shows me that you have never practicised spiritual exercise - asceticism.


Actually in the Middle Ages one of the reasons why people respected the clergy so much is because they thought that a lack of sexual activity could cause illness and even insanity. That's also a reason why widows and widowers remarried only months after the late spouse had passed away.
So the people thought that "those clergy are brave because they willingly risk it".
It can, for those who are weak who are advised to marry by St. Paul in his letters (better to marry than to burn in lust). For those who are strong in spirit, however, they do not become insane. That is why some are called to marry, and others (a small minority) are called to become clergy. A principle of differentiation that you have diffuculties understanding, apparently - and that is this fact: not everyone is created like your or me. Everyone is different. And for that reason, some are fit to marry, others are fit to clergy.


I actually believe that the people in the Middle Ages were up to something. For me the lack of a stable relationship and a normal healthy sex life causes bouts of depression.
Maybe for someone as superficial as you, while others see that you can still have a deep love relationship to others without it being sexual. (like you have with family or true spiritual friends)

[Lutiferre]

I think some of the participants in this thread should try premarital sex before condemning it.
And I can guarantee you several of the participants of this thread have tried premarital sex before condemning it.

[The Lawspeaker]

But it's a fact that the less you actively stimulate your sexual urges, the less they become. It's a fact not only of the psychoplasticity that I can personally attest to from experience, but also of the physical plasticity which applies to neural structures (neuroplasticity) as well as to muscles.
But you have no practical experience in life- as it shows.



The fact that you have no cognition of this plasticity shows me that you have never practicised spiritual exercise - asceticism.
Ascetism is not spiritual exercise. It is sado-masochism with a religious veneer.



It can, for those who are weak who are advised to marry by St. Paul in his letters (better to marry than to burn in lust). For those who are strong in spirit, however, they do not become insane. That is why some are called to marry, and others (a small minority) are called to become clergy. A principle of differentiation that you have diffuculties understanding, apparently - and that is this fact: not everyone is created like your or me. Everyone is different. And for that reason, some are fit to marry, others are fit to clergy.
Personally I think that most of the clergy are insane. And there are a lot of them who have sexual relationships- with the choir boy against his will.;)



Maybe for someone as superficial as you, while others see that you can still have a deep love relationship to others without it being sexual.
Superficial. That would be you then as you don't know anything about life.
Life is about... life. It is about being a member of society. About being part of something. Establish a family and raise it and see your children get their own children and enjoy a mild day as an old man.
That is the time for celibacy- not when you are young.


And I can guarantee you several of the participants of this thread have tried premarital sex before condemning it.
I doubt it. Otherwise they wouldn't condemn it.

[Lutiferre]

But you have no practical experience in life- as it shows.
You know nothing of my practical experience in life.


Ascetism is not spiritual exercise. It is sado-masochism with a religious veneer.
Yes, asceticism is spiritual exercise. Ascesis (Greek) literally means exercise.


Personally I think that most of the clergy are insane. And there are a lot of them who have sexual relationships- with the choir boy against his will.;)
JP has already falsified this lie from statistics. There are not a lot, nor are there more than among married clergy or other sectors of society.


Superficial. That would be you then as you don't know anything about life.
Life is about... life.
:rolleyes:


It is about being a member of society. About being part of something. Establish a family and raise it and see your children get their own children and enjoy a mild day as an old man.
I have an idea of what life is about. It is without doubt about being part of something, especially something greater than yourself (the Church). And life is certainly about raising a family, for most. But not for all.

[The Lawspeaker]

You know nothing of my practical experience in life.
Perhaps I am very glad that I, seriously, don't envy you.


Yes, asceticism is spiritual exercise. Ascesis (Greek) literally means exercise.
It bears the name but it isn't. It is self-denial. Self torture.


JP has already falsified this lie from statistics. There are not a lot, nor are there more than among married clergy or other sectors of society.
That's what the Church claims. But the Church in the U.S almost went bankrupt because so many priests couldn't keep their hands of children.


:rolleyes:
Yes Lutiferre. If God existed he wouldn't have put us on this Earth to torture ourselves until the day we end up in purgatory for the "sins" we have committed. God is love, right ? :coffee:


I have an idea of what life is about. It is without doubt about being part of something, especially something greater than yourself (the Church). And life is certainly about raising a family, for most. But not for all.
Frankly you have no idea. The Church is not a goal. Where in the Bible did God write that one should join the Church and live as a priest ?
Anyways - life is meant to be lived. To raise a family and be a member of indeed something more then that- society.

[Lutiferre]

Frankly you have no idea. The Church is not a goal. Where in the Bible did God write that one should join the Church and live as a priest ?
Joining the Church does not mean living as a priest. That is a vocation within the Church. Most members of the Church are not priests, but laity.

Anyways - life is meant to be lived. To raise a family and be a member of indeed something more then that- society.
Raising a family is indeed for most, but not for all.

[Lutiferre]

It bears the name but it isn't. It is self-denial. Self torture.
Ascesis is ascesis. Self-denial is an aspect of ascesis, in which you learn to become independent of things outside of you and your desire for material things. But it's not the whole of it.

That is not torture, but is purification of your being, which opens you to the spiritual state of divine enlightenment - the vision and presence of God, which is a foretaste of heaven.


That's what the Church claims.
No. That is what he evidenced with statistics. You are the one making claims without disproving his evidence.


Yes Lutiferre. If God existed he wouldn't have put us on this Earth to torture ourselves until the day we end up in purgatory for the "sins" we have committed. God is love, right ? :coffee:
He did not put us on this earth to torture ourselves. Asceticism contains many things, and is voluntary, and certainly not torture. It contains opening up for a lot of spiritual joy and love and presence of God which for those who work toward it, is the ultimate fulfillment of their lives.

Besides, what God put us here to do, is not what we are called to do now, because we have trespassed his original plans, and operate in a fallen world that needs reparation.

[Psychonaut]

I think some of the participants in this thread should try premarital sex before condemning it.

Yup. I find it HILARIOUS that there are teenage virgins in this thread who are pretending to know the psychological ins-and-outs of what sexual relationships entail.

[Bridie]

during intercourse both partners produce hormones which help bond the pair together,That's a very scientific way of looking at it all! :D

[Phlegethon]

Yup. I find it HILARIOUS that there are teenage virgins in this thread who are pretending to know the psychological ins-and-outs of what sexual relationships entail.

There are a few lessons to be learnt without physical experience.
There have to be a few lessons to be learnt without physical experience.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I think some of the participants in this thread should try premarital sex before condemning it.

Premarital sex is an abhorrent,disgusting,crooked,crotch vandalizing,fleece stealing,ball-bashing,mongrel promoting,fornicating,womb gar-rotting, left-hand swanking and short of breath sexualized keep fit physical exercise.:confused::):D:tongue

[Amapola]

The good thing, in my opinion, about chastity is the learning of the self-control and the virtue of temperance (racionality in human passions) that entails and lasts a whole life. For Christians, sexual relations before marriage is quite the converse of people's dignity and human sexuality simply because sexuality is meant to be ordered for the good of the husband and wife, so... "sex and husband and wife" are indissoluble and inseparable.

[Cato]

My opinions are based on personal experience and current belief. In regards to the former, my sexual activities always took place within a bit of a hedonistic mindset. The younger, more carefree days lol. IMO, it's easy to get carried away by sensualism since it's, well, of the senses. The passions that can carry a person away into sexual activities are very, very strong and can create situations of loss of self-control.

However, if I was totally sexless, I might have my balls chopped off or they'd atrophy up from lack of use or somesuch. I just happen to feel that self-control and moderation are far more flattering than lack of such. :)

[Saxan Starbreeze]

I like that.

[Cato]

:)

[Inese]

:eek:
Good GOD, girl, HOW old are you?!? :eek:

I'm an old prude, and think perhaps Starbreeze's system IS the sensible option for under-21s. From then on it's just silly to follow this rule, but for the younger ones, why not?
Hm what can i say?? I am not proud about it and i regret some partners ---- but please it were not much other things to do and it gives you good feelings for a time!! You know , some people use drugs or alcohol to forget about bad events and other people do other things :shy: Now i am older and a little wiser!! No premarital sex is against nature and human needs, that is what i think! And too many partners are a problem also. A good balance between no premartial sex and too much is the best solution for me.
And what is different with over 21 and below 21 please??:confused: Some people are grow adult earlier and some later in the mind. The age on the paper is not very important

[Svarog]

Well, I am sure once you're older than 21 you're look at sex differently than the thing you want to do just cause there is nothing else to do - in your own words.

[Tabiti]

I'm for because three reasons:
1. You must be very close with the person you want to spend your life and know him/her well.
2. One of the ways of knowing someone from the opposite sex better is having sexual relation as well.
3. You must know your parent's potency (for females) :D

On the other hand, I share Inese's opinion that big number of partners is not something good, both for females and males. So, you must just know when and to whom to say "NO!".

[Svarog]

So, you must just know when and to whom to say "NO!".

Many people do start with NO!! then NO! then no! then no.. then 'i don't know' then maybe.. then yes yes yes yes yeees

Talking about modern society :D

[Saxan Starbreeze]

Maybe I condemn premarital sex simply because physical affection isn't in my nature.
I have a tale of irony for my friends here, though.
Anyone whom I can trust is free to message me about it.
I guess I could say I'm a proud virgin, but it's not like I'm a virgin through self-control or anything.
It's not like sex doesn't appeal to me, believe me, I find it vastly enticing.
I just haven't wanted to be that close to anyone in my life.
Main reason?
People just suck too much ass.
All the guys I've ever dated (except this one) are losers.
I think so, anyway.
Then again, I have more figured out than my peers, so I kind of look down on them.
I guess that makes me a prude or whatever.
But I don't care.
I never tried drugs either.
Quit smoking.
Have a beer or two every so often.
I was a good kid but I make for a more boring adult, I think.
:D

@Inese
I believe that's how to be "adult in the head"; to just have the right choices built into your frame.
It wasn't through parenting.
It wasn't through church.
It was through long hours of thought.
Lots and lots of self-exploration.
It's always better to learn without having to make the mistakes.
Watch your friends, predict your outcome if you took the same road.
That's what I did, and hoooooo boy, my friends all got in worlds and I mean ALTERNATE DIMENSIONS of shit.
One of them does drugs all the time and has 300 myspace pictures because she's in love with herself and the other one is 17 and about to be a father...
And he's happy.
And it's with the girl his mom hates.
And he cheated on the druggie girl forementioned with the preggo one.
So yeah, sorry if I rambled...
But I'm not on drugs or pregnant cuz I let them do it for me.
Did I try to tell them it was not good?
Of course. They are my friends.
But kids, I swear, teenagers always think they know best,
even when it's the most fucked up shit.
>_<
Anyway.
I apologize for the ramble...

[Lutiferre]

Yup. I find it HILARIOUS that there are teenage virgins in this thread who are pretending to know the psychological ins-and-outs of what sexual relationships entail.
If anyone knows anything about horniness and the urge to have sex, then it should be a teenager.

[Tony]

Now i am older and a little wiser!!
:coffee:


Lots and lots of self-exploration.

Sin alert , sin alert!

[Amapola]

Maybe I condemn premarital sex simply because physical affection isn't in my nature.
I have a tale of irony for my friends here, though.
Anyone whom I can trust is free to message me about it.
I guess I could say I'm a proud virgin, but it's not like I'm a virgin through self-control or anything.
It's not like sex doesn't appeal to me, believe me, I find it vastly enticing.
I just haven't wanted to be that close to anyone in my life.
Main reason?
People just suck too much ass.
All the guys I've ever dated (except this one) are losers.
I think so, anyway.
Then again, I have more figured out than my peers, so I kind of look down on them.
I guess that makes me a prude or whatever.
But I don't care.
I never tried drugs either.
Quit smoking.
Have a beer or two every so often.
I was a good kid but I make for a more boring adult, I think.
:D

@Inese
I believe that's how to be "adult in the head"; to just have the right choices built into your frame.
It wasn't through parenting.
It wasn't through church.
It was through long hours of thought.
Lots and lots of self-exploration.
It's always better to learn without having to make the mistakes.
Watch your friends, predict your outcome if you took the same road.
That's what I did, and hoooooo boy, my friends all got in worlds and I mean ALTERNATE DIMENSIONS of shit.
One of them does drugs all the time and has 300 myspace pictures because she's in love with herself and the other one is 17 and about to be a father...
And he's happy.
And it's with the girl his mom hates.
And he cheated on the druggie girl forementioned with the preggo one.
So yeah, sorry if I rambled...
But I'm not on drugs or pregnant cuz I let them do it for me.
Did I try to tell them it was not good?
Of course. They are my friends.
But kids, I swear, teenagers always think they know best,
even when it's the most fucked up shit.
>_<
Anyway.
I apologize for the ramble...

You don't really have to give explanations, believe me. Your personal choice or opinion is as respectable as other's opinions here. Sexuality is overrated especially in young people and at times good feelings, education, respect and other virtues and values are mocked about. For most teenagers that practice sex, the sexual intercourse idea is practically put in their minds by society as a must exactly in the same way as it is for religious people according to their faith, even though the former still claim they are cool and free.

[RoyBatty]

Well, in my experience, the more sexually active you are, the more your greediness for sexual satisfaction grows. The less sexually active, the more the need settles and become smaller because you get used to it and your body adjusts.

It adjusts according to your mindset. If you constantly think about sex, your need for it and your activity will grow. But if you don't, then your need for it will be smaller, as well.

So it's a matter of theosis through ascesis, the spiritual struggle for self-control and elevation above beasts into the divine nature which is freedom from such compulsions.

I'm a guy, I think about sex all the time. Perhaps not as much as when I was a teen / student but enough.

Guys who claim differently are either repressed, liars or ..... abnormal. :D

[Svarog]

I'm a guy, I think about sex all the time. Perhaps not as much as when I was a teen / student but enough.

Guys who claim differently are either repressed, liars or ..... abnormal. :D

I am getting worse with each year actually, I fear for my thoughts in few years from now...

[Murphy]

You guys need to get a hobby.

Regards,
Eóin.

[Svarog]

You guys need to get a hobby.

Regards,
Eóin.

What makes you think we don't have one?

[Tabiti]

It adjusts according to your mindset. If you constantly think about sex, your need for it and your activity will grow. But if you don't, then your need for it will be smaller, as well.I think the more you miss sex (feel unsatisfied sexually), the more you think about it, at least for males/females with average, normal needs.
In the Middle times, till the middle of 20th century, sex was accepted as something dirty and sinful, therefore desired. In the recent years it is abnormally worshiped, therefore there is an unhealthy social interest in it as well. As soon as sex is accepted as a normal biological need the problems and aura about that "miracle" will disappear.

[RoyBatty]

Read the part I mentioned about being "repressed" again :D

[Lutiferre]

I think the more you miss sex (feel unsatisfied sexually), the more you think about it, at least for males/females with average, normal needs.
I think the more you think about it, the more you will miss it.

[Beorn]

I'm a guy, I think about sex all the time. Perhaps not as much as when I was a teen / student but enough.

They say that men think about sex every si.............Hm? What did you say? :)

[Osweo]

If anyone knows anything about horniness and the urge to have sex, then it should be a teenager.
Man, er, Boy, wait till you get to my age! It's getting so bad that the mind occasionally wanders over the species barrier... :naughty:

I'm a guy, I think about sex all the time. Perhaps not as much as when I was a teen / student but enough.
You're perhaps just over 85 or something, Roy? ;)

I am getting worse with each year actually, I fear for my thoughts in few years from now...
I refer the honourable Srbski gentleman to my first comment...

[RoyBatty]

Feels like it sometimes, lol :D

[The Lawspeaker]

You guys need to get a hobby.

Regards,
Eóin.
Ooh we have one alright. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/52-aspetti_di_vita_quotidiana%2C_amore%2CTaccuino_San itatis%2C_Cas.jpg

[Phlegethon]

Painting lousily is not really a hobby.

[Germanicus]

I think the more you miss sex (feel unsatisfied sexually), the more you think about it, at least for males/females with average, normal needs.
In the Middle times, till the middle of 20th century, sex was accepted as something dirty and sinful, therefore desired. In the recent years it is abnormally worshiped, therefore there is an unhealthy social interest in it as well. As soon as sex is accepted as a normal biological need the problems and aura about that "miracle" will disappear.


I have a healthy social interest that gets fulfilled once a month, if i am lucky, and usually i have to book up for it a week in advance, i even quote to her sex should be accepted as a normal biological need also too.......:coffee:

[Hrolf Kraki]

Painting lousily is not really a hobby.

Why not? You don't have to be good at something to enjoy doing it. :p





Edit: It wasn't until I just looked up at the picture that I realized the error in the above comment. Please bear this in mind. :p

[Bridie]

Bloody quote button isn't working for me sorry....

Originally posted by Saxan -
"it's not like I'm a virgin through self-control or anything.
It's not like sex doesn't appeal to me, believe me, I find it vastly enticing.
I just haven't wanted to be that close to anyone in my life."


I think Saxan points to something here that is very natural for women... but this instinct is largely perverted via social pressures, exposure to media etc in our modern times. I believe that it is NOT natural for women to want to have sex with men they don't know intimately, don't love nor trust, and/or whom they feel don't know them intimately, don't love nor respect them in return.

Men on the other hand are probably a different kettle of fish altogether though....

[RoyBatty]

Men on the other hand are probably a different kettle of fish altogether though....

In some ways it's the same as with women but let's just say we're less likely to want to miss out on unexpected opportunities, lol :D

[Bridie]

In some ways it's the same as with women but let's just say we're less likely to want to miss out on unexpected opportunities, lol :DI could make a good joke about penises and brains here.... :p

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I'm for because three reasons:
1. You must be very close with the person you want to spend your life and know him/her well.
2. One of the ways of knowing someone from the opposite sex better is having sexual relation as well.
3. You must know your parent's potency (for females) :D

On the other hand, I share Inese's opinion that big number of partners is not something good, both for females and males. So, you must just know when and to whom to say "NO!".

Looking at Nature only a few animals(doves for instance)have a life long relationship.
The bulk hump much better,but only the Alpha's.They just are sending their sperm any which way and only with strong Alpha females.
They in turn do not mate with an Omega male.
The Omega male and to a large extend the female female are -not by choice-not in the procreation game.

Then we have the domesticated animals(sheep-goats-cattle-humans( a tamed animal)-dogs
All of them have lost the basic concept of mating with the strong.
Heck they just do it for relieving their sad sacs.
Man/woman are influenced by their religious believes(Christianity).
These believes are totally "un-natural" and lead to creating a next generation of weaklings, excessabated by multi cult marriages.
Men are following the path of dogs and were it not for size and tools the chihuahua would quite happily fetch a pair of tilts to enter a Bouvier's inner-sanctum to slip a few beans with little thought on the next generation of "Bouv-Hua" mongrels.
I am not for "chastity" as such. I am for sex with a purpose.

[lei.talk]

...if you have sex daily you are in greater need
than if you have not ejaculated for a period of time.
Your urges tend to calm down from abstinence.
It’s a fact.only speaking from experience
and that experience is limited to hundreds of men and women
that exercise and enjoy an athlete's diet,

the exact opposite is true:

the less frequent - the greater the urge.

after a few days,
both men and women dream their way to satisfaction.

perhaps, vegetarians and weaklings differ in this?

[Skandi]

I forgot to mention, I have a uni friend who is a born again Christian he firmly believes in no sex before marriage. He married at 19, being without sex is not natural, and as a certain cobalt blue poster has said, if you deny any release then it's the bed sheets that will suffer.

[Jamt]

only speaking from experience
and that experience is limited to hundreds of men and women
that exercise and enjoy an athlete's diet,

the exact opposite is true:

the less frequent - the greater the urge.

after a few days,
both men and women dream their way to satisfaction.

perhaps, vegetarians and weaklings differ in this?

It’s true that the aching of balls increases
for a while when you are single but you really
have to absent from masturbating for more than
a few weeks lei. talk, for the
bliss of Buddha-Field to occur.

[Baron Samedi]

For me it is not only acceptable but encouraged, to get to know someone inside-out before you proceed into something more serious.

That was seriously one of the hottest things I have ever read. :thumb001:

Metaphorically speaking of course.... I agree with you 100%

[Lutiferre]

the less frequent - the greater the urge.

after a few days,
both men and women dream their way to satisfaction.
As you say, after a few days. That is like withdrawal. Unless you try living without sex for months and try avoid thinking about it, you don't really know how much it's possible to condition your body and mindset. If you are sitting and dreaming about sex, of course your urge will stay the same.

Some people do not understand that the mind is a large part of sexuality, and how we think is going to affect it. Taking control over the mind is the first step in spiritual elevation and in being one with your body rather than being forced by it.

Staying celibate for months and conditioning your body and mind is very different from abstaining for a few weeks or days while dreaming about sex.

[Hrolf Kraki]

As you say, after a few days. That is like withdrawal. Unless you try living without sex for months and try avoid thinking about it, you don't really know how much it's possible to condition your body and mindset. If you are sitting and dreaming about sex, of course your urge will stay the same.

Some people do not understand that the mind is a large part of sexuality, and how we think is going to affect it. Taking control over the mind is the first step in spiritual elevation and in being one with your body rather than being forced by it.

Staying celibate for months and conditioning your body and mind is very different from abstaining for a few weeks or days while dreaming about sex.

Or you could save yourself all that trouble and just get down to business! Your urges will only grow stronger. I promise you this.

[Lutiferre]

Or you could save yourself all that trouble and just get down to business! Your urges will only grow stronger. I promise you this.
You didn't actually read and understand my post.

You cannot promise me something that my experience directly contradicts.

It just shows, again, that unless you try living without sex for months and try avoid thinking about it, you don't really know how much it's possible to condition your body and mindset. If you are sitting and dreaming about sex, of course your urge will stay the same. Staying celibate for months and conditioning your body and mind is very different from abstaining for a few weeks or days while dreaming about sex.

[Jamt]

You people are all a bunch of teenagers and don’t know shit. If you have a normal daily sex life your sperm and sex hormones production stays high and if you don’t for a period of time it lowers and calms down, all science, mysticism and martial arts has known this forever. You are all just trying to bully poor good Christians and it pisses me of.

[Brynhild]

I've had premarital sex since I was a teenager, and that has always been my business. Now that I'm older and a lot more selective, I refuse to have sex with any man until I've taken my time in getting to know him first. I personally don't have any issues with people experimenting in that regard, so long as there is an understanding between the two consensual people, the right precautions are taken etc.

Teenagers and young adults experiment, it's healthy and natural. It's when one gets older that there is a need for something more exclusive.

[Matritensis]

Not only acceptable,I find it even necessary.I'm not kidding today,for a change.

[raZvan]

For me it is not only acceptable but encouraged, to get to know someone inside-out before you proceed into something more serious.

:thumb001:
Every person with an ounce of sense would agree with this!

[Loxias]

It's good to have some training to make it perfect with your real love.
And, as said before, it is very unrealistic to believe that a healthy person should refrain from sex. I can't even see a proper ethical reason for it.

[jerney]

I do it and I enjoy it.

[Bridie]

I do it and I enjoy it.Too much information, thanks.

[Matritensis]

^Indeed! what a scandal!

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I could make a good joke about penises and brains here.... :p

One eyed Jack

[Bridie]

^Indeed! what a scandal!Did I say that it was a scandalous comment? In case you and jerney haven't noticed, that question isn't "do you have premarital sex?" What sort of opinion is "I do it and I enjoy it"?? Maybe a braindead one...

[la bombe]

Well, I would never marry someone who I'd never had sex with, so there you go. In this day and age I think it's an unwise choice. Sex is a far too important aspect of a relationship to take that kind of chance.

[jerney]

Did I say that it was a scandalous comment? In case you and jerney haven't noticed, that question isn't "do you have premarital sex?" What sort of opinion is "I do it and I enjoy it"?? Maybe a braindead one...

You should be able to deduce my opinion based on that statement.

[Osweo]

Um, to the abstainers, who suppose that not thinking about it calms you down...

Do you live on top of a mountain with only goats and yetis for company? (After a few weeks I suppose the girl yetis wouldn't look so bad... Add a few months for the nanny-goats. :P)

I can get along not so bad when I'm only among older people, out in the country, like I often am, but any situation where I would regularly have to look at young women in the street would kill me. :p City life - :eek: How on Earth do you not look at the delectable forms that parade before you every day even in a small town and not even imagine? :rolleyes:

[Loyalist]

Did I say that it was a scandalous comment? In case you and jerney haven't noticed, that question isn't "do you have premarital sex?" What sort of opinion is "I do it and I enjoy it"?? Maybe a braindead one...

You must understand that, in this case, the poster is doing the best they can with limited intellectual capabilities. This necessitates the substitution of an opinion with a statement.

[Matritensis]

Exactly! don't I get any credit for trying?

[Lutiferre]

Um, to the abstainers, who suppose that not thinking about it calms you down...

Do you live on top of a mountain with only goats and yetis for company? (After a few weeks I suppose the girl yetis wouldn't look so bad... Add a few months for the nanny-goats. :P)

I can get along not so bad when I'm only among older people, out in the country, like I often am, but any situation where I would regularly have to look at young women in the street would kill me. :p City life - :eek: How on Earth do you not look at the delectable forms that parade before you every day even in a small town and not even imagine? :rolleyes:
Well, the less you condition your mind and body, the more it will just automatically start thinking of sex (if you just usually do that without stopping). And of course some immodestly dressed girls/women makes it almost unbearable if you're already in that situation, to try to avoid any sexual thoughts completely or avoiding that the mind wanders as it's used to do.

But the more you try to shape your own thinking, the more resistant you become toward "compulsive thinking". Even if, of course, even then an immodestly dressed girl can be a significant set back..

[Osweo]

But the more you try to shape your own thinking, the more resistant you become toward "compulsive thinking". Even if, of course, even then an immodestly dressed girl can be a significant set back..
But a 'set back' from what? what is the end to this means? As I see it, I'm 29 years old, childless, unmarried, single and without immediate prospects of fixing any of that. I think I ought to let my body remind me that I am biological sexual being once in a while, just to give me a bit of a kick up the arse, or else I become a dead end in my family tree!

(And by the way, a well dressed modest woman with nice hair and good posture is FAR more likely to catch my eye and pique my imagination than some fat skank in a tight top and cheap short skirt ever could! You're sex-obsessed to assume otherwise... ;))

[Svarog]

Kamarad Oswiu have a point, if you don't react on nicely attractive girl than there probably is something wrong with you, even my girlfriend knows that so when i throw a random comment or stare in her presence she would be like, 'yeah, she's hot you're allowed to go nuts' or'd be 'her?? really??' but either way, even she knows men are like that and is not even trying to fight it, i even have doubts she made me go look hot woman because then i am twice as fired up for her - everyone wins :P

[Lutiferre]

But a 'set back' from what? what is the end to this means?
I never said it would be a set back for you.

It would be a set back for anyone who is trying to gain spiritual elevation from beastliness, looking to detach himself from worldliness, lust and other kinds of sins against the divine image of man.

It would be a set back for anyone who tries to follow Jesus commandment, however challenging it is: “You have already heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”


As I see it, I'm 29 years old, childless, unmarried, single and without immediate prospects of fixing any of that. I think I ought to let my body remind me that I am biological sexual being once in a while, just to give me a bit of a kick up the arse, or else I become a dead end in my family tree!
Whether you are lusting after the flesh you see which is not yours, is obviously not what is going to affect whether you will be a reproductive dead-end.

Otherwise, my grand-grand father who was a pious Christian would not have had 12 children, while my dechristianised parents today only had 2, in spite of their liberal attitudes regarding sex throughout life.


(And by the way, a well dressed modest woman with nice hair and good posture is FAR more likely to catch my eye and pique my imagination than some fat skank in a tight top and cheap short skirt ever could! You're sex-obsessed to assume otherwise... ;))
Well, I wasn't exactly thinking of "fat skanks".. but any provocative dressing, and that it's more classy doesn't make it less provocative ;)

[Lutiferre]

Kamarad Oswiu have a point, if you don't react on nicely attractive girl than there probably is something wrong with you,
You can react and appreciate beauty, without turning the reaction into lusting (which I define not just as finding someone attractive, but that your whole thinking about that person is clouded by compulsive desires which are not of love, but just thinking about that one thing.. even if you don't know them).

[Svarog]

You can react and appreciate beauty, without turning the reaction into lusting (which I define not just as finding someone attractive, but that your whole thinking about that person is clouded by compulsive desires which are not of love, but just thinking about that one thing.. even if you don't know them).

I don't even love my girlfriend, you sound so dramatic talking about something you did not even experience yet, it's not all that complicated, or at least should not be.

[Poltergeist]

What about postmarital sex?

[Svarog]

What about postmarital sex?

That is what the best 'stuff' is saved for

[Lutiferre]

I don't love my girlfriend either,
You don't love your girlfriend. Why are you giving me this information? I never said anything about your girlfriend.

But no, I do find it bizarre. Those of my friends that have girlfriends actually do at least feel and claim to love each other. Maybe you are simply more disillusioned about true kærlighed than others.

you sound so dramatic talking about something you did not even experience yet, it's not all that complicated, or at least should not be.
What is it you don't think I experienced yet? Being in love? I have experienced that.

What is complicated? I am not the complicated one. I simply think like every sane culture since the beginning of time that sex and love *should be* connected (and those words are often interchangeable). When you say you don't love your girlfriend to me, you are the one who is heartless and bizarre and complicated.