Do You Pray - Yes, No, Sometimes?

[Murphy]

Simple question, do you pray?

I my self do of course, the rosary etc. However I am intending to take up praying The Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary (http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/little-office-of-the-blessed-virgin-mary.htm). I'm still working out how best to incorporate the devotion into my prayer life.

[Jägerstaffel]

I don't make a habit of talking to myself.

[Murphy]

I don't make a habit of talking to myself.

Yes, just the habit of being an arsehole ;).

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Never

[Äike]

I'm not lonely enough to start talking to myself. Although I sometimes prayed when I was about 8-11 years old. After my mind developed further, I didn't pray anymore for obvious reasons.

[Lars]

Nah, a working man is worth more than a thousand praying men.

[Liffrea]

No! Crom does not listen, Crom does not give a shit for worms!:D

[Groenewolf]

First of defining praying as talking to yourself is a bit silly statement and only shows that you do not understand what prayer is. Namely an act of communication with the Divine.

Second, yes I do pray :coffee: .

[Beorn]

I pray several times a day. Usually after having had a bad thought or vision, and accompanying me touching wood three times.

[Jägerstaffel]

Nevermind.

[Absinthe]

Nope, because I am irreligious. So that creates the practical implications of being without customized prayers/rituals.

But I'm working on it, and I'll let you know as soon as some obscure deity steals my heart. ;)

[Óttar]

Rarely. When I do I try to do it in Latin as much as possible. When not in Latin, I use an antiquated modern English i.e., thou hast, thine etc.

Sometimes I will recite formulas in Sanskrit in the Gayatri metre.

I have developed some formulaic prayers in Latin from studying ancient Roman religion and mysteries. These will become more complex as my knowledge of Latin increases.

Hopefully soon I'll be able to do some Greek too.

[Tabiti]

In childhood, when things went really bad, however just mentioned "God", without any religious meaning, but as a power. Now I think it's useless to pray to any power and to expect any help if we don't help ourselves first.

[Pallantides]

Never.

[W. R.]

By the way, does anyone practise self-flagellation, comrades?

[Bari]

I used to. But its been quite some years i was a devouted Catholic.

[Piparskeggr]

If one simply defines prayer as speaking to what one believes is the Holy, then yes, I do pray.

[Cail]

No, never. Sometimes i may ask my ancestors or mother nature for help, but that's not a prayer.

[la bombe]

I'm not religious but I still pray occasionally. It can be therapeutic.

[Loddfafner]

I have been known to get down on my knees for worship... with my tongue.

[Electronic God-Man]

No, never. Sometimes i may ask my ancestors or mother nature for help, but that's not a prayer.

Sounds like a prayer to me. Any attempt to communicate with something greater than yourself would be a prayer.

Yeah, I think I pray sometimes.

.................................................. ......
And as far as talking to yourself, I do that a whole lot too. :D

[Cail]

Sounds like a prayer to me. Any attempt to communicate with something greater than yourself would be a prayer.

Ok, in that case i pray each time prior to sex :D.

[Blue Cheer]

Only in a foxhole~

[Cato]

Sometimes, to which ever God is listening at the time.

[Eldritch]

No I fucking don't, you motherfucking motherfucker!

[Rachel]

I actively talk to myself. ( and by myself i mean the ancestors my gods etc.) I often find sometimes when i have an issue if i talk it out and listen i tend to answer my own questions about life and its purpose or about something stupid that i just did.

It works for me anyway.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Whiteruthenian
By the way, does anyone practise self-flagellation, comrades?

Yes twice a night and four times on a Saturday, it’s so sore I think it might drop off…..

[The Lawspeaker]

I have noticed over the years that praying doesn't help so.. continuing to do so wouldn't make any sense. So no I don't pray.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Rachel
It works for me anyway.

Well that’s it isn’t it?

I use meditation as a form of prayer I suppose….I see it as opening myself up to out there.

[Jarl]

about 8-11 years old.


After my mind developed further

... :rolleyes:

[Lenny]

I try to do it in Latin as much as possible. When not in Latin, I use an antiquated modern English i.e., thou hast, thine etc.

Sometimes I will recite formulas in Sanskrit in the Gayatri metre.

I have developed some formulaic prayers in Latin from studying ancient Roman religion and mysteries. These will become more complex as my knowledge of Latin increases.

Hopefully soon I'll be able to do some Greek too.
Ottar, why would you do this? Communicating (if that is the right word) in dead languages that we do not understand is the height of "form over substance". What is the purpose?

[Äike]

... :rolleyes:

Are you stalking me? :coffee:

[Osweo]

I pray several times a day. Usually after having had a bad thought or vision, and accompanying me touching wood three times.
Oh, well, if that counts, sure! :p

I'm irreligious in any formal way, but bursting with 'superstition'. :)

If one simply defines prayer as speaking to what one believes is the Holy, then yes, I do pray.

No, never. Sometimes i may ask my ancestors or mother nature for help, but that's not a prayer.
Interesting difference in understanding here. I associate 'prayer' with rather formalised behaviour too. I was never actually taught how to do it, though, nor exactly what it is and what it is for. I probably still don't know, really.

See Orthodox Jews rocking back and forth is an ultimate 'taking it to the logical conclusion' sort of thing, regarding formal prayer. It doesn't appeal to me. I'm open to hear whether there's something in it, though.

[Jarl]

Are you stalking me? :coffee:

Yeah! These bimbos in your sig turn me on.

[Äike]

Yeah! These bimbos in your sig turn me on.

You're not the only one;)

https://www.osta.ee/i/objects/resized/y08/w11/d5/5661232.jpg

[Jarl]

:eek: oooo....oooo!!! :thumb001:

[Lenny]

I associate 'prayer' with rather formalised behaviour too. I was never actually taught how to do it, though, nor exactly what it is and what it is for. I probably still don't know, really.
Have you ever been alone late at night, far away from city lights, all is peaceful and you are relaxed. You look up at the night sky in all its splendor. Suddenly you are overcome with "emotion": You are humbled yet invigorated by the spectacle of the awe-inspiring night sky. You feel a vague connection to something beyond yourself.

Prayer is something like this. That is why it must be done alone and come from the heart.

[Osweo]

Have you ever been alone late at night, far away from city lights, all is peaceful and you are relaxed. You look up at the night sky in all its splendor. Suddenly you are overcome with "emotion": You are humbled yet invigorated by the spectacle of the awe-inspiring night sky. You feel a vague connection to something beyond yourself.
Oh, that! I get that all the time. I left the city a few years back, and now live in deepest rural Devon. I appreciate my new surroundings inordinately (in a way that those who've never known aught else might not), and I get that in broad daylight even. Especially in the woods, and when I'm on top of the hills with scattered trees blowing in the wind. :) I sometimes go up a farmer's lane at the back of the house, on to the top of the biggest hill near our tiny village, and you can see for miles.

Prayer is something like this. That is why it must be done alone and come from the heart.
:thumb001:

But I'm not engaging in any dialogue with anyone, other than saying 'Hello, I'm here!' None of my petty personal little troubles come into this situation. It's quite impersonal, and I suppose the thread-starter at least will not define this as prayer. Or would he allow that this is on the same spectrum, at least?

[Óttar]

Ottar, why would you do this? Communicating (if that is the right word) in dead languages that we do not understand is the height of "form over substance". What is the purpose?

I am not communicating with you. :p And I understand what I'm saying, otherwise I wouldn't be saying it. :wink

Because High Tradition is disseminated from sacred tongues. Priests in ancient times would've had their liturgical languages complete with formulas and incantations. In the Roman household, to pray to the Lares, it was proper for the Paterfamilias to cover his head, face the altar, lift his hands in the air and say formulaic prayers. I know some Sanskrit slokas and they are to be recited according to a specific metre (In my case, I employ the Gayatri.) This is how the priests even today perform the rites.

In the movie Angela's Ashes, the teacher-priest says "Latin is the language that unlocks the gates of Heaven, Irish is the language of patriots." Different languages are employed for different things. To pray completely in a common tongue is to lose the mystical, otherworldly divine quality of the rite.

Consider the difference between the Gayatri mantra (hymn to the Sun deity) recited in the original Gayatri metre compared to the same mantra performed as a Bhajan (folk song-hymn.) The former sounds like a host of gandharvas (celestial spirits) singing, the latter sounds like a 2 year old's nursery rhyme.

I utilise Latin for opening and closing to heighten the experience, and because Latin is a refined and most noble language. If I want to pray more directly, I will use my mother-tongue, but naturally I still use flowery and lofty language, because that is what is natural to me when approaching the Divine.

[Psychonaut]

Have you ever been alone late at night, far away from city lights, all is peaceful and you are relaxed. You look up at the night sky in all its splendor. Suddenly you are overcome with "emotion": You are humbled yet invigorated by the spectacle of the awe-inspiring night sky. You feel a vague connection to something beyond yourself.

Prayer is something like this. That is why it must be done alone and come from the heart.

I agree 100%. I'm most often overcome by the numinosity of the World/Gods when I'm in the presence of its/their most majestic manifestations: the night sky, dawn, mountain peaks, deep forests, etc.

[Loki]

I used to pray a lot. I stopped when my prayers started falling on deaf ears.

[Charles U. Farley]

Prayer? My father Odin created me strong enough that I don't need such weakness!

[Amapola]

Yes, every night.

[Cato]

I used to pray a lot. I stopped when my prayers started falling on deaf ears.

I used to pray a lot expecting an answer, like trumpet blasts from heaven. Now, I pray, and the answer comes from within.

The effectiveness of prayer is what one expects: help from heaven is "hard to depend on" according to an old Chinese proverb (since heaven has very severe standards of good and bad, I guess). God, if you believe in the standard portrayl of him, possesses inscrutable motives and, even if you trust completely in him, like Job, you oftentimes seem to get the shaft. If you expect something that isn't in line with what heaven/God wants, the answer probably won't be very forthcoming. God doesn't answer the prayers of his believers, in the way that they want them to be answered, too much expectation of miraculous nonsense and whatnot.

I prefer Ben Franklin's proverb, "God helps those who help themselves" from, I think, one of the editions of Poor Richard's Almanac. This is a robust belief that makes a man into someone self-sufficient rather than into a weepy sponge.

[Lenny]

I pray, and the answer comes from within.
"What you are looking for is what is looking."

[Cato]

"What you are looking for is what is looking."

Aristotle or Plato or someone from that school once suggested that God is the spirit inside of worthy people. A reading of Genesis indicates that God "breathed" into Adam, who became a living being. This breath, as I understand it, is the soul, which is the microcosm to the macrocosm (God). Far too many people pray and expect an exterior answer, manna from heaven as it were, when the answer is best grasped as an interior process.

[Sally]

Do I pray? Yes!

I pray the Rosary everyday and say the Angelus at noon. I also do quite a bit of mental prayer each day, in addition to about 15-20 minutes of spiritual reading.

Oh, and I make an examination of conscience each day, too, and attend a retreat once a month.

[Loddfafner]

I would pray if I could reliably get results from any god or goddess who, "full of grace, [would] help me find a parking place". A cursory websearch churned up several such candidates.

[Charles U. Farley]

Aristotle or Plato or someone from that school once suggested that God is the spirit inside of worthy people.

What about the unworthy people though? :confused:

Those are the negroes right? :p

[Cato]

What about the unworthy people though? :confused:

Those are the negroes right? :p

A worthy negro is far more worthy of the regard of heaven than an unworthy white.

[Cato]

I said a "hail and thank you" to the heavens today before I got ate lunch and got plastered, an appreciation for the closeness of divine companionship.

[Dalriada]

Prayer is an integral part of my everyday life.

For me, it has nothing to do with formal incantations or rosary beads or anything of the kind, it is a simple but amazing act of communication with the Lord, it may or may not even take the form of distinct words and can take place in as mundane a situation as waiting at a bus-stop or eating my lunch.

I have learned that if you want to use prayer as a supernatural Jim'll Fix It, to get what you want, you're going to be sorely dissapointed. Prayer is about developing a personal relationship with God, and is about Him, not oneself. When you come to realise this, prayer becomes fulfilling.

[anonymaus]

Surely an obvious answer from me, but I felt like participating. :D

No.

[Svipdag]

All monotheistic religions take God to be omniscient. What can one possibly have to say to an omniscient entity ? There is no point in my telling God what I need or think I need because, being omniscient, God already knows, better than I, what I need.

Some religions tell us to praise God. Is God imperfect ? Does God lack something ? Does God need our praise ? Can any man understand God, or God's motives or purposes ? If you don't understand God, your praise must be based on ignorance. What, then, is it worth ? Certainly, it is not possible to ingratiate oneself with God by praise.If that be one's motive, would not an omniscient being be well aware of the fact ?

Desire arises from imperfection. We desire what we lack. Can God lack anything ? If not, God does not desire anything. The most presumptuous idea ever promulgated by any religion is that we can somehow "magnify" the Lord . Nothing that we can do can add anything to or subtract anything from God.

Of course, one might express gratitude to God for blessings received and to the human mind, it would be churlish not to be grateful, but do you imagine that God NEEDS, or even, being perfect and lacking nothing, desires our gratitude ?

What, then, is the point of prayer ? A perfect omniscient being already knows if one is grateful. A perfect omniscient being does not need to be told "How great Thou art" and cannot be flattered by being told so. Such a being does not need to be reminded of or nagged about our desires and wishes. What, then, can one hope to accomplish through prayer ?

If prayer be insincere, i.e. motivated by a spirit of wheedling and flattery, it is insulting, indeed blasphemy. If it is sincere, it is redundant. The Deity doesn't need our advice.

[Grumpy Cat]

I think the answer would be obvious for me too...

- No

[Brynhild]

My definition of prayer would be to commune with the deities that I feel the deepest connections. I don't pray for the reasons of seeking them out so they can get me out of any trouble that I've otherwise landed myself in. Nor is it to wish upon something that I expect them to manifest for me. I'm perfectly capable of getting what I want for myself. However, if I do want something specific, an opportunity presents itself for me to capitalise on. It's more along the lines of what I receive from them in the ways of suggestions and guidance. The rest of it is up to me.

Sometimes, there is nobody else to talk to when you have those moments of spiritual revelations, because nobody else would have a clue what is going on or what you're talking about. Maybe I'm just a right old loony, but that isn't anything new! :tongue

[Cato]

All monotheistic religions take Giod to be omniscient. What can one possibly have to say to an omniscient entity ? There is no point in my telling God what I need or think I need because, being omniscient, God already knows, better than I, what I need.

You're missing a strong fundamental of the monotheistic religions- that God desires fellowship with humans, i.e. is a personal God and not some blind watchmaker like the deity of the deists. This God interacts with humans via prayer, and vice-versa, and creates bonds with us, forming friendships, like with Abraham, that abstract entity cannot do.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Loddfafner
I would pray if I could reliably get results from any god or goddess who, "full of grace, [would] help me find a parking place". A cursory websearch churned up several such candidates.

This is why I’ m still waiting for my Aston Martin, sack full of gold and a harem of Aryan super babes…you’re clogging up the almighty’s air time with crap like this…..:D

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Brynhild
Sometimes, there is nobody else to talk to when you have those moments of spiritual revelations, because nobody else would have a clue what is going on or what you're talking about. Maybe I'm just a right old loony, but that isn't anything new!

Do you get the voices that tell you to kill? Or is that just me again….:D

[SuuT]

You're missing a strong fundamental of the monotheistic religions- that God desires fellowship with humans, i.e. is a personal God and not some blind watchmaker like the deity of the deists. This God interacts with humans via prayer, and vice-versa, and creates bonds with us, forming friendships, like with Abraham, that abstract entity cannot do.

It is exactly this halcyon chumminess that seals the deal of unbelieveability for me as pertains this god...:icon_ask:...indeed I find nothing god-like about it at all.


Prayer? No. I emulate, and hope that I might be worthy of the signs that I do receive. I believe that meditation (the contemplative act) is Heathen 'prayer': It is, itself, a god-like act, as my gods are contemplative.

[Cato]

It is exactly this halcyon chumminess that seals the deal of unbelieveability for me as pertains this god...:icon_ask:...indeed I find nothing god-like about it at all.

Why worship and pray to a deity at all if you don't want some sort of personal relationship with it? And, being the creator and "parent" of the human race, why shouldn't God show concern or compassion for us?

The self-reliance of the heathen religion aside, Ask and Embla were formed in the image of Odin and his brothers- and gifted with mind, spirit, and will by their creators as well. Community and human virtues are strongly emphasized in heathenry, and the deities are called the Elder Kin.

Who can worship or relate to a deity that's merely an uncaring abstraction? I sure can't. To be human is to be divine, and this means properly human, rather than properly animal, qualities: compassion, honor, justice, virtue, etc. These traits aren't contained within nature in any great degree, hence they come from an unnatural source: a cosmic source, God or Gods, who are our ideal role models.

[SuuT]

Why worship and pray to a deity at all if you don't want some sort of personal relationship with it? And, being the creator and "parent" of the human race, why shouldn't God show concern or compassion for us?

I probably understand the emboldened words in a different manner than you do.


Who can worship or relate to a deity that's merely an uncaring abstraction? I sure can't.

No one can.


To be human is to be divine,

I disagree. Not all humans are divine.


and this means properly human, rather than properly animal, qualities: compassion, honor, justice, virtue, etc. These traits aren't contained within nature in any great degree,

Oh? Just yesterday I watched 4 adult Osprey attack an American Bald Eagle that was eyeing the nest of an injured 5th Osprey which currently cannot fly. They also feed this Osprey and her chicks. And I see something akin to this everyday. :)


hence they come from an unnatural source: a cosmic source, God or Gods, who are our ideal role models.

This doesn't follow lest you show our audience what compassion, honor, justice, virtue, etc. are; and, how they only pertain to humans.

[Austin]

Was Catholic till I got big enough to scream and resist to the point where I couldn't physically be dragged to those bore-fest Sunday schools and Sunday sermons (HORRIBLE)

Once my brothers saw that my resistance worked for me they did the same and my parents gave up on it. Now we are non-denominational. I'm glad we got out of it and that I resisted it as much as I did when I was a lil guy, I could have been raped by one of those beast zealot hypocrites had I or my brothers stayed any longer.

[Murphy]

[. . .]

Now I know why people think you're a cunt.

[Austin]

Now I know why people think you're a cunt.

I love you Aequoreus your my favorite here (:

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Now I know why people think you're a cunt.

At least a C***t is good for something,what have you got.:D

[Austin]

Aequoreus I don't really care what the forum anti-nationalist-clique opinion of me is unless it is somehow positive then I'd be upset but otherwise it is irrelevant to me (:

[Cato]

Again, whenever I feel the need to- and to whichever deity is listening.

[safinator]

Simple question, do you pray?
No

[BeerBaron]

No

though, if someone could prove the existance of an omnipotent being who created us (christian god) and our would i would pray. it would go something like

"what the fuck were you thinking, what kind of child creates something with this many problems? you're a terrible god, now fuck off and send me to hell! i don't wanna hang out with a buncha christians listening to christian rock, hell has all the good music"

my prayer to allah

"i dont wanna teach 72 girls how to fuck anyways, point me in the direction of hell"

[The Lawspeaker]

Only occasionally: "God.. don't you fokken dare to crash this plane now..."

[Sikeliot]

I do not pray, no.

[Mordid]

Catholics do often do pray.

[Cato]

I used to pray quite frequently but, convinced that no one was listening, I have more or less stopped.

[Troll's Puzzle]

when I need guidance I do occasionally pray to my lord and master, Satan.
and frequently, he answers and I hear his booming voice, and his hand guides my hand and I blurrrrg.... mumble mumble... *drools* http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-001.gif

[Joe McCarthy]

I haven't prayed in about a decade.

[Osweo]

I haven't prayed in about a decade.

:ohwell: It's been a pretty bad decade, Joe...

[Gamera]

Usually never, but I do at times of extreme frustration or sadness (even though I'm agnostic). Like 80% of "religious" people in the West, that's the only moment they remember about God. :D

[Laudanum]

Nope, not really.

[Crossbow]

Only occasionally: "God.. don't you fokken dare to crash this plane now..."

These are the only times you need 'him'...

[Comte Arnau]

Today I'm praying to Ortzi, the Basque God of Storms. Although I should pray to him on Ostegun, Thursday, the ortz (thunders) egun (day).

http://www.fishsandwiches.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Grace-and-Greatness-1-pic.png

[askra]

i pray only when i'm very worried for something, for example the condition of health of members of my family or mine , i think that the last time that i have praied was when my father was opearated for a cancer, several years ago.
praying could be considered a form of autogenic training :thumb001:

[The Lawspeaker]

Only occasionally: "God.. don't you fokken dare to crash this plane now..."
I am not the kind to show what I really feel (when it comes to positive feelings) unless I have drank something then I am more willing to pray too. Usually just a brief "thanks, God" when looking at my people (I was born amongst the right set of people, was I ?) and I thank him for the girl that has been with me for some time now because I know she will set me straight when I need it (and she knows I need it .. quite often:P), has given me the responsibilities and trust that a man and father (of her children) deserves and makes sure I am safe - safe against my (sometimes) lack of confidence and my own bleeding stupidity.

Nothing lengthy. Just a "Thanks, God". I may be a twat of a man but still.... you may have led me to the right path". I think I am not a man of "many words" (as we say here) but I damn well know how to be grateful but not how to show it. And for me: that will do as a prayer.

[Humanophage]

No, and never did. I am also not superstitious.

However, in my early teens, I used to make short mental notes along the lines of "I'd give up one day off my maximum lifespan to achieve success in this endeavour". I also had an inverted cross with a pentagram that I used to cover in blood from my fingers. I did not think I was communicating with anyone, it felt more like an attempt to manipulate natural laws - I give up here, I gain there. In practice, it was a good way to concentrate on an important task.

Additionally, at some point when I was even younger, I used to run in the country as fast as I could as a way of honouring the god of wind (might have been an indirect influence of Conan the Adventurer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x_4nCj4TI0)). I don't remember the details that well, but it felt quite pagan. No people around, beautiful severe nature, great physical effort.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Every month on payday did not pray for a long time:p
I am the boss

[Baron Samedi]

I pray to my recently departed grandfather, especially during times of duress and extreme sadness.

I tend to think he listens more than most.

[Lithium]

I am not that kind of people who pray only when they need something. That is pathetic.

[Fra Baldracco]

I am not that kind of people who pray only when they need something. That is pathetic.

You talk with trees that a witty thing...:rolleyes:

[Lithium]

What I do is not in your business.

[Fra Baldracco]

What I do is not in your business.

http://www.stregaperamore.it/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/rogo-strega.jpg

[Lithium]

This only proves how "smart" the christians are. Stupid fanatics.

[Fra Baldracco]

This only proves how "smart" the christians are. Stupid fanatics.

...yes and you are able only at insulting?

True faith means GOD

not some trees....:rolleyes:

[Murphy]

This only proves how "smart" the christians are. Stupid fanatics.

There is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to this the epithets you applied to your statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated, and the facts insofar they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

[Lithium]

There is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to this the epithets you applied to your statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated, and the facts insofar they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

Trying to look intelligent can't cover your bad sides. You are a very irresponsible person. You guys are so funny you don't even know what you are talking about.

[Lithium]

The question in this thread is "Do you pray?" and I answered it much clear. The praying is a personal thing for me and I don't have to explain to some Christians to who I am praying and why. This is my personal decision and I honestly don't care about your opinions for my religion. So, you can stop trolling...NOW.

[Murphy]

Trying to look intelligent can't cover your bad sides.

Actually my post was an attempt to lighten the mood. This thread was not intended for debate.


You are a very irresponsible person.

How so?


You guys are so funny you don't even know what you are talking about.

How so?

Look lets get one thing straight. Any insinuation that Christians are somehow intellectually inferior for being Christians simply cannot be sustained. Throughout history Christians have produced the greatest philosophical, scientific and artistic minds of Europe. I'm sorry but unless you are of the Roman or Greek pagan persuasion you cannot lay claim to any heathen civilisation of your own. Your pagan ancestors were barbarians immensely inferior to what Christian civilisation produced.

[Blossom]

I used to do it as a kid...but not anymore. :shy:

[Lithium]

The philosophy, science and the arts reached their highest level in the pre-Christian times. The Christians just destroyed their achievements. You are irresponsible because you don't seem to care about your weight, but thats just my opinion.
I don't want to offend you so I will remain silent.

[Murphy]

The philosophy, science and the arts reached their highest level in the pre-Christian times.

You could posit such an argument on the basis of Greece and Rome (and be unsuccessful). You can't even broach introducing such an argument for the barbarian pagans of the Germans and the Slavs. Deal with it. Your ancestors were barbarians who were granted enlightenment from higher civilisations (my own Irish ancestors were no different).


The Christians just destroyed their achievements.

Read Saint Augustine's City of God then come back to this discussion and you'll realise Christianity saved of the ancient world everything that could be saved from the decadence of the pagans. You'll note that the decline in Roman civilisation began before the birth of Christ I hope.


You are irresponsible because you don't seem to care about your weight, but thats just my opinion.

You: XTIANS R DUM CUZ I SAI SO!
Me: No they are not as it can be clearly demonstrated by any honest and serious examination of history that this simply is not the case.
You: UR FAT! LALALALALALALA

Yea.. Christians are dumb..

[Lithium]

I dont say that you are fat. I am saying that you are irresponsible. And if your ancestors were barbarians don't talk for mine too.

[mymy]

First, I can't say for myself that i'm religions. I don't like what church do, i don't like what religion and church mean to most of people today. I hate how everybody thinks that religion must be part of your national identity and i really think that people are manipulated by church. I also don't like that priests are involved in politics.
But anyway, I have to admit that i pray to God sometimes-mostly when i have some problem and when i can't find peace in soul. Those are times when even a sincere conversation with friend doesn't help... I do believe that there is something higher than ordinary people, some power-God or call it with any other name, not important, so yes, i do pray sometimes. And to be honest, most of times it helped. But every time i did it, i did it with open heart and about things what were very important to me in those moments. Also i have to say that i'm really trying to be good person because i think being good person is more important than being good believer and go to church or read Bible. If God exist he is same for everybody and i don't believe any pray will help you if you do bad things to other people all the time or think bad about someone.

[Rosenrot]

when i'm thankfull or scary.

[Lasituacion]

I try to be a good a catholic.

So must of the times yes

[Svipdag]

It is generally assumed that God is omniscient. If so, God already knows what I need and want and whether I ought to have it. What need, then, is there to ask anything of a God who already knows the contents of my prayer ?

If God knows everything, that must include my thoughts and feelings. If I am, for example, grateful, God already knows it. When it comes to praying for a benefit for myself or another, can anyone really believe that my wheedling and flattery will really influence God ?

God will do as God wills, and needs neither to be praised or "magnified". [How can one magnify that which is already infinite ?] Human rulers are avid for praise; human rulers feed on flattery. WHAT ? Would you reduce your God to that level ? For shame !

[Cheesypie]

Tried it. It failed. Gave up.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Look lets get one thing straight. Any insinuation that Christians are somehow intellectually inferior for being Christians simply cannot be sustained. Throughout history Christians have produced the greatest philosophical, scientific and artistic minds of Europe. I'm sorry but unless you are of the Roman or Greek pagan persuasion you cannot lay claim to any heathen civilisation of your own. Your pagan ancestors were barbarians immensely inferior to what Christian civilisation produced.

Explain please,the Barbarians have invented plenty------
Genghis Khan,Atilla,Aleric,The British, The asians at that time etc.
The Christian Civilization produced plenty of dead Bodies and that would have gone on were it not for the new age humanism.

The inquisition under the guidance of the Dominicans was abhorrent.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Paying is a private matter and it includes praying , to stones,trees .the departed in your family whatever tickles your fancy

[Libertas]

As Epicurus stated in antiquity:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is impotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence comes evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

[Vril Ya]

[QUOTE=Lulletje Rozewater;472946
The inquisition under the guidance of the Dominicans was abhorrent.[/QUOTE]

It was the only way to keep their faith alive,abhorrent and disgusting.

[Inese]

I dont believe in a god or religion but I started praying to a higher power somewhere out there in the sky ( "if someone can hear me....") when the world was at the darkest for me and when i could not see much light or hope. I prayed to a power not knowing if there is a power listening but I said to myself "If someone listens then its okay and if not then I only wasted some minutes --- that doesnt matter much" and you know, sometimes you need to talk about problems and issues and I think it has helped! If there is a power who created the universe, elemental powers and the big bang , maybe the power is strong or kind enough to listen to the sorrows of one of his tiny creations on planet earth!??

[Peerkons]

Inese is back. w00t

Beidzot, varbuut, kaut ko uzzinaashu par tevi, ja esi atgriezusies shajaa foorumaa.
Esmu dzirdeejis visvisaadas lietas par tevi. :D

[Peerkons]

Once, when my internet went down I prayed. :D
Serious.

[The Lawspeaker]

Damn... Ik heb een woordenboek nodig. Van het Lets naar een beschaafde taal. :D

[Peerkons]

Damn... Ik heb een woordenboek nodig. Van het Lets naar een beschaafde taal. :D

You could translate this if I was writing in proper Latvian but I do not have Latvian keyboard layout at the moment.

Ā (aa)
Č (ch)
Ē (ee)
Ģ (gj)
Ī (ii)
Ķ (kj)
Ļ (lj)
Ņ (nj)
Š (sh)
Ū (uu)
Ž (zh)

[The Lawspeaker]

You could translate this if I was writing in proper Latvian but I do not have Latvian keyboard layout at the moment so I am writing in internet Latvian
Yes lol.. and my Google Translation to Latvian sucked. It didn't translate it well at all and it turned it into something I didn't mean to say. :D

[Groenewolf]

*looks trough his collection of language related books for something about Latvian*

[Damião de Góis]

I did almost every day when i was under 10 years old. Not anymore though.

[Raikaswinþs]

I was meant to be a priest, up until aged 14-15, when I dropped the idea. Haven't prayed often ever since. Not even to ask for favours.... (well, ok, maybe a couple times, when I was really desperate :P,but even atheists do that xD)

[Mercury]

No. It doesn't make sense to pray when God is so powerful and all-knowing. I don't think there is ever a need for prayer. Plus, I don't believe God really interferes with his creation per se.

[Hevneren]

As I do not believe in any god, it would seem rather pointless for me to pray. Then again, were I to believe in an all-mighty, all-knowing god, I would feel that it would be somewhat presumtuous of me to pray for "him" to make changes. Who am I to tell a god what to do?

[Oreka Bailoak]

I do. It feels really natural to me. Whenever somebody dies or a big change in life happens it's often what I do. Our minds are created for experiencing these uplifting feelings. Many atheists don't believe this actual feeling exists (watch the video below).

I don't see why atheists are so against praying (all their excuses are stupid- "why tell god what to do"- who said you have to pray to god why not pray to the unknown, to a universal spirit, to the universe or whatever you want). Even if there isn't a god its still mentally calming. It feels like you're connecting with the universe.

J_AaeDoiTA0
^watch the beginning of that.

The purpose of praying is for a biological reason.
You Atheists didn't know that existed did you? Praying isn't that stupid and pointless now is it?

[Edelmann]

I'm an atheist, but this is an intellectual view, and is quite out of sync with my true worldview. Despite being raised in a mostly secular environment, in times of great pain or distress I find myself "praying" to some degree. I may acknowledge atheism as a more reasonable attitude, but I cannot escape my human nature. I used to pretend that it was possible to be a consistent atheist, but I don't even bother anymore.

This is why I found it funny when Christopher Hitchens got cancer. The big question people asked him was "Have you ever thought that this is punishment?" I can understand why he would take offense at the suggestion, but I find it very hard to believe that a man as old as he, who likely grew up in a much more religious environment than I, has never thought that maybe he's getting what he deserves in a religious sense, or that he's never been tempted to praise the lord for absolution and salvation from pain or punishment.

The theistic worldview, whereby we blame our pain on sin, is far too ingrained in our culture to escape its' effects at the worst times of life, no matter how rational you think you are.

[Mercury]

I'm an atheist, but this is an intellectual view, and is quite out of sync with my true worldview. Despite being raised in a mostly secular environment, in times of great pain or distress I find myself "praying" to some degree. I may acknowledge atheism as a more reasonable attitude, but I cannot escape my human nature. I used to pretend that it was possible to be a consistent atheist, but I don't even bother anymore.

This is why I found it funny when Christopher Hitchens got cancer. The big question people asked him was "Have you ever thought that this is punishment?" I can understand why he would take offense at the suggestion, but I find it very hard to believe that a man as old as he, who likely grew up in a much more religious environment than I, has never thought that maybe he's getting what he deserves in a religious sense.



I can see why he gets offended by it. Cancer kills one American every minute, every day. It's one of the main killers of Humanity, since due to modern medicine-- we don't die from things like cavities anymore. So nature still has a way of screwing us over. So is every cancer patient being punished by God? Where do we draw the line? Are people who get a cold also being punished? The fact that theists will look at things like hurricanes, (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4114686,00.html) earthquakes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMKnvrLhWU0), or illness as evidence of God is just so fucking intellectually disgusting. An atheist who speaks his mind gets cancer, while a fucking maniac who oppresses millions of people like Kim Jong Ill gets to live a healthy long life. Theists in general need to grow up and realize that some things just happen, and God has nothing to do with it.

[Edelmann]

So is every cancer patient being punished by God?

Not likely. But in the worst of times this is how people tend to view the world, at least today.

A lot of people take offense at the phrase "there are no atheists in foxholes", but I think it's actually quite wise, in that the worst calamity will make even atheists consider some sort of higher power. Considering that, is our atheism not out of sync with our inherently mystical worldview?

Rationality is not soothing.

[Odoacer]

I can see why he gets offended by it. Cancer kills one American every minute, every day. It's one of the main killers of Humanity, since due to modern medicine-- we don't die from things like cavities anymore. So nature still has a way of screwing us over. So is every cancer patient being punished by God? Where do we draw the line? Are people who get a cold also being punished? The fact that theists will look at things like hurricanes, (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4114686,00.html) earthquakes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMKnvrLhWU0), or illness as evidence of God is just so fucking intellectually disgusting. An atheist who speaks his mind gets cancer, while a fucking maniac who oppresses millions of people like Kim Jong Ill gets to live a healthy long life. Theists in general need to grow up and realize that some things just happen, and God has nothing to do with it.

God has something to do with everything, because he is in control of everything. But people really need to consider the Book of Job.

[Osweo]

But people really need to consider the Book of Job.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/three_friends_accuse_job/jb09_15-17.jpg
http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/three_friends_accuse_job/jb09_22-23.jpg
:thumb001:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/index.html

[Johnston]

Yes. I don't judge all of my ancestors as ignorant for doing so, nor presume myself to be better than them. Their culture, pagan and Christian, is my culture, and without which, I would have none. Therefore, I declare for religion, and spirituality at least. So-called progress, post-modernism, and the abolition of religion has not helped the West, but has been the blight of Sovietism, that I am no apologist for. It is nihilism others believe in. I have convictions instead.:coffee:

[arcticwolf]

Has anyone defined prayer yet? What is it? Asking for favors, bargaining with God? What difference does believing in anything make? Will gravity stop working if I believe it will? No, I don't pray.