Pashtuns: A genetically South Asian ethnicity wrapped in self hate(?)

[Truthbetold]

Why do the Pashtuns (who form a significant amount of the Pakistani population and are the largest group in Afghanistan) have such an extreme amount of self hate regarding what they are?
Historically, they are tied to South-Central Asia. Genetically, they're CLOSELY linked with other South Asian populations such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, and Sindhi's. Geographically, most of them live in Pakistan. after that Afghanistan. Last time I checked Pakistan was South Asia, and Afghanistan lies both in South Asia and Central Asia.
Pashtuns are clear cut South Asian people by genetics. They cluster with other Northwest South Asians. I was reading some comments on this forum, and once again I noted that there are Pashtuns who live in some bubble regarding this fact.
They think that because they speak an Iranic language, they are somehow not related to their closest geographical and historical brothers; the Indic Pakistanis and Northwest Indians.
This menace needs to stop. A Turkic speaking Turk from Turkey is closer genetically to a Semitic speaking Syrian, an Iranic speaking Kurd or Persian, than to a Turkic speaking Central Asian, by genetics. A Turkic speaking Azerbaijani is genetically much and much closer related to a Persian speaking Iranian, or a Kartvelian speaking Georgian, than to a Turkic speaking Uyghur. By the same logic, an Iranic speaking Pashtun is closer to an Indo-Aryan speaking Sindhi, Kashmiri, Himachali, and even up to including High Caste Hindu's from Central India, than to any West Asian group. Linguistics =/= genotype, the same way all people know and acknowledge that phenotype =/= genotype.

Pashtuns don't just ''cluster'' somewhere loosely in South Asia, no they cluster firmly in South Asia genetically. Some South Asians just sound so self-haterish on the internet. For outsiders its very confusing and quite a hilarious scene. I assume the ''lightness'' factor plays a role as well considering what role it always has played in south asia. Would be the reason why Pashtuns (as they are so-called the lightest south asians, no?) find it so insulting to be compared to their darker but close genetic brothers, the Sindhi's, high caste Hindu Indians, Kashmiri's, etc.

The haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) is found at a frequency of 51.02% among the Pashtun people. Paragroup Q-M242 (xMEH2, xM378) (of Haplogroup Q-M242 (Y-DNA)) was found at 16.3% in Pashtuns.[89] Haplogroup Q-M242 is also found at a frequency of 18% in Pashtuns in the Afghan capital of Kabul.[90]

According to a 2012 study:

"MDS and Barrier analysis have identified a significant affinity between Pashtun, Tajik, North Indian, and West Indian populations, creating an Afghan-Indian population structure that excludes the Hazaras, Uzbeks, and the South Indian Dravidian speakers. In addition, gene flow to Afghanistan from India marked by Indian lineages, L-M20, H-M69, and R2a-M124, also seems to mostly involve Pashtuns and Tajiks. This genetic affinity and gene flow suggests interactions that could have existed since at least the establishment of the region's first civilizations at the Indus Valley and the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex."

source: Haber M, Platt DE, Ashrafian Bonab M, Youhanna SC, Soria-Hernanz DF et al. (2012). "Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage Structured by Historical Events". PLoS ONE 7 (3): e34288. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0034288. PMC 3314501. PMID 22470552.

World plots/PCA's.

http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2008137066/2030915790/gr1.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3074/eumescalabeled.jpg

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v466/n7303/carousel/nature09103-f3.2.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HwyKjFcicAQ/T3Nbet3odMI/AAAAAAAAEtc/9Le5g_dLfuc/s1600/journal.pone.0034288.g001.png

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0076748


As compared to West Asia/European/Eurasia plots

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UCP5T1pduGU/TzpBa9QbK3I/AAAAAAAAEe4/_uWuqnnb1zQ/s1600/1_2.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_6XAIk6ygtg/Tcqj7WCS_jI/AAAAAAAADsU/WJDG6R2XnH0/s1600/waeu.png

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6945/neareast13labeled.png

http://pichoster.net/images/2014/02/13/Eurasia%20PCA.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TBDgV2r3hxI/AAAAAAAACck/sYi1shNB8bc/s1600/westeurasianpca.jpg

Sure they're not the same as other South Asians etc in all aspects, but genetically, geographically and to a certain good extent phenotypically, they are firmly South Asian. Culturally however they received influence from wider regions.
Pashtuns, like all other South Asian populations are very far from West Asians genetically, and even more further from Europeans. (Tbh, even hilarious to discuss all this)
A Pashtun is genetically closer to Indians all the way up to South India, than he is towards a West Asian Georgian.

A population hailing mostly from Pakistan (clear cut South Asia) and from Afghanistan (a nation in South Asia and Central Asia), that genetically cluster and overlap with peoples such as Punjabi Jatts, Baloch, Sindhi's, and high caste Hindu Indians, are just South Asian.

"South Asian" doesn't equate Punjabi/Tamil/Sindhi etc. it's a wide diverse region. We're talking about genetics however. Genetically they overlap and cluster with other South Asians (or either Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiri, Himachali people are not South Asian anymore genetically?), geographically they are also mostly South Asian (worlds largest amount of Pashtuns live in South Asian Pakistan), so they are South Asians. Of course their language and culture differs somewhat from other close clustering South Asians (Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiri's etc), but did/does it change their genetics remotely significantly? No.

Pashtuns, should embrace their closest genetic, historical, and cultural brothers, the Indic Pakistanis, and the Northwest Indians, and not be such self haters on the internet. It all doesn't change reality and neither does it bring anything to either peoples other than more chisms and hate in that already troubled region of the world.

[Jana]

As far as I Know Pashtuns are genetically far northwestern shifted South Asian population, with West and Central Asian admixture that makes them unique :p

[jatt]

They don't have problems with Sikh jatts from what I know they hate pakistani punjabis for distroying their country and using it as a puppet state for so long

[Highlands]

Not just Pashtuns actually most of the Muslim meta-ethnicities there. Claiming all sorts of lineage from Arabic to Persian. I don't know if this is because of caste system (?). It has implications in the real world, especially when linked to Islamic radicalism (in a non-direct way). Many British Pakistanis have joined ISIS because of strong, superficial affinity with the Middle East and West Asia - they are willing to fight for MENA causes instead of their own. You even see it in universities - raising money for MENA causes instead of pumping it to their own countries. They think if you are light-skin and don't look typical Indian, you must have Arabic/Persian/Turkish ancestors - which makes no sense. I think it's a social issue which needs looking into.

[jatt]

Not just Pashtuns actually most of the Muslim meta-ethnicities there. Claiming all sorts of lineage from Arabic to Persian. I don't know if this is because of caste system (?). It has implications in the real world, especially when linked to Islamic radicalism (in a non-direct way). Many British Pakistanis have joined ISIS because of strong, superficial affinity with the Middle East and West Asia - they are willing to fight for MENA causes instead of their own. You even see it in universities - raising money for MENA causes instead of pumping it to their own countries. They think if you are light-skin and don't look typical Indian, you must have Arabic/Persian/Turkish ancestors - which makes no sense. I think it's a social issue which needs looking into.
There is lot of bad blood between Muslims n non Muslims in subcontinent. Majority of Muslims converts were low casts Hindus from North west India even now a days they are sort of low casts in India. Nbecsuse of this and Friday sermons at local mosque they think they are Arabian because Muslim
Originated in Arabia.

[Highlands]

There is lot of bad blood between Muslims n non Muslims in subcontinent. Majority of Muslims converts were low casts Hindus from North west India even now a days they are sort of low casts in India. Nbecsuse of this and Friday sermons at local mosque they think they are Arabian because Muslim
Originated in Arabia.

They have a very good culture and beautiful people. That's why it just doesn't make sense to me.

[jatt]

Forget about Pakistanis and afghNs even bangladeshis think they come from Arabs and Persians. This coming of Islam in indiA has spell doom for these people. Divided India and these people are like having one leg in one boat and Another in another boat

[Stefan_Dusan]

Indians themselves are very different people. I would say Pashtuns are more similar to Iranians than they are to Punjabis. Just look at their language for one, or their looks.

[jatt]

They have a very good culture and beautiful people. That's why it just doesn't make sense to me.


What is hAppening between Israel and Arabs. Multiply the hatred 10 times that is how Muslims and non Muslims are in subcontinent

[Willem]

Indians themselves are very different people. I would say Pashtuns are more similar to Iranians than they are to Punjabis. Just look at their language for one, or their looks.

Look at the genetic charts he posted. Pathans are almost the same as other Pakistani groups. They do not cluster with Iranians on regional PCA plots.

[Stefan_Dusan]

What is hAppening between Israel and Arabs. Multiply the hatred 10 times that is how Muslims and non Muslims are in subcontinent

Islam is the culture of the Arabs, the quran is written in their language, the most holy site (Mecca) is on Arab lands, the most important prophet (Muhammad ) was Arab. This is why all Muslims kind of wish they were truly Arab even if they don't fully realize their intents. It was Arab conquests that brought Islam to them.

[jatt]

Indians themselves are very different people. I would say Pashtuns are more similar to Iranians than they are to Punjabis. Just look at their language for one, or their looks.
Lookwise they are more like Kashmiris but culture is sort of Persian which itself is not big deal differ t to Pakistani culture

[Stefan_Dusan]

Look at the genetic charts he posted. Pathans are almost the same as other Pakistani groups. They do not cluster with Iranians on regional PCA plots.

u place too much importance on genetics, their language is closer to Persian. Plus, I don't think good genetic results have been done on them.

[Willem]

u place too much importance on genetics, their language is closer to Persian. Plus, I don't think good genetic results have been done on them.

Language classification means nothing to racial affinity, especially in groups that underwent language shift through elite dominance (very common around the world).

[Highlands]

Islam is the culture of the Arabs, the quran is written in their language, the most holy site (Mecca) is on Arab lands, the most important prophet (Muhammad ) was Arab. This is why all Muslims kind of wish they were truly Arab even if they don't fully realize their intents. It was Arab conquests that brought Islam to them.

Turks and Persians are proud though and Persians are even anti-Arab. (at least what I've seen).

[Stefan_Dusan]

Language classification means nothing to racial affinity, especially in groups that underwent language shift through elite dominance (very common around the world).

where someone plots on a PCA plot means even less. I'd say Pashtuns look closer to Persians than Punjabis. This is from some experience with all 3 ethnic groups.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Turks and Persians are proud though and Persians are even anti-Arab. (at least what I've seen).

It depends how Muslim they are. The Turks though have their own mythos because they lead the Ottoman Empire.

[Arhat]

Pashtuns dont hate indians and dont deny that they have south asian admixture.But they are not south asian people because they speak an eastern iranic language and even genetically the south asian components are not dominant and came from the maternal side.Pashtuns were nomads in the past and were culturally closer to central asian turks than to indians.They are in no sense south asian people and i thought that only indians who have some kind of weird fetish for pashtuns claim such things.They even dont look similar and their tribal culture is very foreign for south asia

[Stefan_Dusan]

Pashtuns dont hate indians and dont deny that they have south asian admixture.But they are not south asian people because they speak an eastern iranic language and even genetically the south asian components are not dominant and came from the maternal side.Pashtuns were nomads in the past and were culturally closer to central asian turks than to indians.They are in no sense south asian people and i thought that only indians who have some kind of weird fetish for pashtuns claim such things.They even dont look similar and their tribal culture is very foreign for south asia

I know from talking to Indians, they have some "tribes" of their own, I'm curious, can u explain Pashtun tribal hierarchy and customs?

[jatt]

Turks and Persians are proud though and Persians are even anti-Arab. (at least what I've seen).
So are Indians. Have you ever met an Indian even online who show favorBle view of these people. It's always Pakistani and bAngladeshi who have abnormal love for these good for nothing people. Persians were once ZorastrNians but Islamic conquest changed them to today's people. Islam met resistance in India. We have indegenous religions like Hinduism Sikhism and budhism. Since these countries are overwhelmic Islamic there are no conflicts. If Muslims were minority I their region things would been different

[jatt]

Pashtuns dont hate indians and dont deny that they have south asian admixture.But they are not south asian people because they speak an eastern iranic language and even genetically the south asian components are not dominant and came from the maternal side.Pashtuns were nomads in the past and were culturally closer to central asian turks than to indians.They are in no sense south asian people and i thought that only indians who have some kind of weird fetish for pashtuns claim such things.They even dont look similar and their tribal culture is very foreign for south asia Buddy your people in indian Punjab we call them pashoris they are shawl vendors. Don't mix up Indians N Pakistanis. You are sort of low cast India

[Arhat]

where someone plots on a PCA plot means even less. I'd say Pashtuns look closer to Persians than Punjabis. This is from some experience with all 3 ethnic groups.

most pashtuns have this typical afghan look 53060 but some can look like persians,uzbeks or punjabies but on average they look similar to persians than indians

[Arhat]

what the hell are talking about???? i am not from india or pakistan

[jatt]

what the hell are talking about???? i am not from india or pakistan I beg pardon for mistooking for afghan. Don't insult an Indian by saying we like
Afghans. Who the fuck R they. We can crush them like bugs. My ancestors ruled over that part Nd even to this day they say to their kids chup Che Singh nalwa vagela. Meaning keep quite or Sikhs will come. Just don't talk indians and Pakistani mentality as same. The people these Pakistani worship are like cockroach for us. Got it my friennd

[Arhat]

I know from talking to Indians, they have some "tribes" of their own, I'm curious, can u explain Pashtun tribal hierarchy and customs?

pashtun customs are based on the ethnical code pashtunwali which is probably of pre-islamic origin and for some pashtuns as much as important as their islamic religion.Pashtuns have many tribes and clans which are based on patrilineal ancestry.Pashtuns always took foreign women and married them because they only identify with their paternal line so some pashtuns can look north indian,persian(tajik) or even a bit turkish because their ancestors mixed with non-pashtun women but most pashtuns preserved this typical afghan look.In pakistam some regions were only recently pashtunized and here more pashtuns can have a indic look which is rather uncommon among afghan pashtuns but exists.

[Arhat]

i didnt say that all indians have a fetish for pashtuns but many indians and indian pakistanis seem to be "facinated" by them or want to claim them as indian people

[jatt]

pashtun customs are based on the ethnical code pashtunwali which is probably of pre-islamic origin and for some pashtuns as much as important as their islamic religion.Pashtuns have many tribes and clans which are based on patrilineal ancestry.Pashtuns always took foreign women and married them because they only identify with their paternal line so some pashtuns can look north indian,persian(tajik) or even a bit turkish because their ancestors mixed with non-pashtun women but most pashtuns preserved this typical afghan look.In pakistam some regions were only recently pashtunized and here more pashtuns can have a indic look which is rather uncommon among afghan pashtuns but exists. Pashtonwali my ass. They are known for selling their women in Pakistan. Anyone who can't find a wife go to pashtoon areas and buy women.

[Arhat]

Pashtonwali my ass. They are known for selling their women in Pakistan. Anyone who can't find a wife go to pashtoon areas and buy women.

funny that pashtuns say exact the same thing about indian people.Prostitution exist everywhere in the world but is surely more widespread in india than in tribal pashtun areas of afghanistan and pakistan

[Stefan_Dusan]

pashtun customs are based on the ethnical code pashtunwali which is probably of pre-islamic origin and for some pashtuns as much as important as their islamic religion.Pashtuns have many tribes and clans which are based on patrilineal ancestry.Pashtuns always took foreign women and married them because they only identify with their paternal line so some pashtuns can look north indian,persian(tajik) or even a bit turkish because their ancestors mixed with non-pashtun women but most pashtuns preserved this typical afghan look.In pakistam some regions were only recently pashtunized and here more pashtuns can have a indic look which is rather uncommon among afghan pashtuns but exists.

In Serbian tribes it's based on male founder as well (seed), however taking a foreign woman is still discouraged, it happens from time to time. I was curious about your codes of conducts to compare, what u call "Pashtunwali" for example in Serbian system,

If u descend from same man, u cannot marry anyone inside it. So even if u have to back a 1000 years to get a common ancestor, u still cannot marry. Usually villages are based on one or two tribes, and they cannot marry within the village.

Second, if u do not descend from same man, u have to trace ur ancestry to 8 generations to make sure there is no common link. For example if ur great-grandmother came from the same family (here clan, not tribe) u cannot marry even though this is all female lines.

I find the above two most important, as it underlines how people organize. For example, I still can go to someone from the same male founder, and we trace to 1300s, and he will treat me how an American will treat a first cousin, or even better. At same time, I keep in touch with only immediate cousins form my female line.

[jatt]

i didnt say that all indians have a fetish for pashtuns but many indians and indian pakistanis seem to be "facinated" by them or want to claim them as indian people There was no Afghanistan before Ahmed shah abdali got power. This area
Was under hindushahi Kings. At least know afghan history before talking. N by the way they look quite similar to valley of Kashmir people. You wanna deny I don't give two hoot about it anyways

[Arhat]

In Serbian tribes it's based on male founder as well (seed), however taking a foreign woman is still discouraged, it happens from time to time. I was curious about your codes of conducts to compare, what u call "Pashtunwali" for example in Serbian system,

If u descend from same man, u cannot marry anyone inside it. So even if u have to back a 1000 years to get a common ancestor, u still cannot marry. Usually villages are based on one or two tribes, and they cannot marry within the village.

Second, if u do not descend from same man, u have to trace ur ancestry to 8 generations to make sure there is no common link. For example if ur great-grandmother came from the same family (here clan, not tribe) u cannot marry even though this is all female lines.

I find the above two most important, as it underlines how people organize. For example, I still can go to someone from the same male founder, and we trace to 1300s, and he will treat me how an American will treat a first cousin, or even better. At same time, I keep in touch with only immediate cousins form my female line.


yes pashtuns also still prefer pashtun women for their sons and in rural areas most people are unmixed but urbanized pashtuns or pashtuns who live in a region inhabited by a large non-pashtun majority are often mixed.

[jatt]

In Serbian tribes it's based on male founder as well (seed), however taking a foreign woman is still discouraged, it happens from time to time. I was curious about your codes of conducts to compare, what u call "Pashtunwali" for example in Serbian system,

If u descend from same man, u cannot marry anyone inside it. So even if u have to back a 1000 years to get a common ancestor, u still cannot marry. Usually villages are based on one or two tribes, and they cannot marry within the village.

Second, if u do not descend from same man, u have to trace ur ancestry to 8 generations to make sure there is no common link. For example if ur great-grandmother came from the same family (here clan, not tribe) u cannot marry even though this is all female lines.

I find the above two most important, as it underlines how people organize. For example, I still can go to someone from the same male founder, and we trace to 1300s, and he will treat me how an American will treat a first cousin, or even better. At same time, I keep in touch with only immediate cousins form my female line. Bro this pashtoonwali type shit is
Common in Indians too. But we are sort of getting westernized.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Bro this pashtoonwali type shit is
Common in Indians too. But we are sort of getting westernized.

As are Serbs if they move to cities. It's sad to me. Anyways in Serbian custom, you have a special family designated during marriage (kum) and from there, your first son/first daughter marry 1-1 each of this family. So it used to be, your wife was chosen before you were born. This was done to strengthen ties between families. However communism was brutal here, and outlawed this.

There is also tradition of 'blood brotherhood' it's elaborate ceremony where u drink the blood of each other before elders. But after it's done, you can no longer marry anyone from this family line, nor can your descendants, almost like your seeds are the same.

[Arhat]

There was no Afghanistan before Ahmed shah abdali got power. This area
Was under hindushahi Kings. At least know afghan history before talking. N by the way they look quite similar to valley of Kashmir people. You wanna deny I don't give two hoot about it anyways

yes afghanistan is a young state but this doesnt mean that afghans(pashtuns) didnt existed before this period and there was also no indian state before 1947 but indian civilization is very old .Afghanistan was dominated by eastern iranic tribes like kushan,scythians,hepthalites,tocharians and bactrians in the pre-islamic period.These eastern iranic tribes represent the ancestors of modern pashtuns and modern pashto is classified as eastern iranic language similar to scythian,baktrian and pamiri but later pashtuns also mixed with indians,turks and persians.Pashtuns were originally nomads and some of their tribes like abdali(hepthalites) or sakazai(saka=scythians) show that eastern iranic nomads played a very important role in the ethnogenesis of pashtuns.

[jatt]

As are Serbs if they move to cities. It's sad to me. Anyways in Serbian custom, you have a special family designated during marriage (kum) and from there, your first son/first daughter marry 1-1 each of this family. So it used to be, your wife was chosen before you were born. This was done to strengthen ties between families. However communism was brutal here, and outlawed this.

There is also tradition of 'blood brotherhood' it's elaborate ceremony where u drink the blood of each other before elders. But after it's done, you can no longer marry anyone from this family line, nor can your descendants, almost like your seeds are the same.
We have gotra system. Where men and women from same gotra can't marry. We exchange our turbans As a sign of brotherhood. And then consider the guy whom we changed turbans as real brother

[jatt]

yes afghanistan is a young state but this doesnt mean that afghans(pashtuns) didnt existed before this period and there was also no indian state before 1947 but indian civilization is very old .Afghanistan was dominated by eastern iranic tribes like kushan,scythians,hepthalites,tocharians and bactrians in the pre-islamic period.These eastern iranic tribes represent the ancestors of modern pashtuns and modern pashto is classified as eastern iranic language similar to scythian,baktrian and pamiri but later pashtuns also mixed with indians,turks and persians.Pashtuns were originally nomads and some of their tribes like abdali(hepthalites) or sakazai(saka=scythians) show that eastern iranic nomads played a very important role in the ethnogenesis of pashtuns.
India is one of the worlds most ancient and continuous civilization. Actually ancient Greeks give us this name India. India is 1000s year old my friend. Much older than pashtoons and as far as language is concerned check language family tree both Persian and Indian language are branches of same family. Ancient iranic language is Avesta which is sImar to Sanskrit Indian language.
I

[Truthbetold]

Indians themselves are very different people. I would say Pashtuns are more similar to Iranians than they are to Punjabis. Just look at their language for one, or their looks.
Well genetically they're not as you see, to any West Asian ethnicity. By far.

Indians themselves are very diverse and the way you mention ''Indians'' (as if it's an ethnicity), is nothing more than utterly wrong. Kashmiris and Tamils are very different people for starters, but are both Indians (those Kashmiris who live in Indian territories that is). Punjabis got quite some diversity as well. Punjabi Jatts for example, are genetically very very close to Pashtuns, and historically as well, yet other Punjabi tribes are much more distant.
In other words; you can't talk about such concepts as if it's some homogenous group.

About the language, Pashto language is an Eastern Iranian language and alongside Ossetian (spoken by the North Caucasian Iranian ethnic group, the Ossetians), the only significant existing Eastern Iranian languages these days. Persian is an Western Iranian language, like Kurdish, Talysh, and Tat, and an average Persian speaker can understand about as much Ossetian as he can understand Pashto; well exactly, close to nihil. Or you wanna say now that because Pashto and Ossetian belong to the same language tree (Iranic) and even to the same linguistic regional distribution as well (Eastern) that Ossetians and Pashtuns are close as well? That would be almost like comparing diferent human races, in my humble opinion.
Linguistics are a very fluid concept and I'd rather not use that argument. An advanced Persian speaker can understand about ~50% of Azerbaijani Turkish yet it doesn't belong to the same family tree of linguistics.

Phenotypically, the average Pashtun looks between a North Indian, a West Asian, and with some Central Asian Turkic touch. Yet his genetics put him the closest with other Northwest South Asians (Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, high caste Hindu Indians, etc)

[StonyArabia]

Turks and Persians are proud though and Persians are even anti-Arab. (at least what I've seen).

Well Persians did rule over the Arabs before the Arabs ruled over them to be honest. Also Arab nationalists are often anti-Persian. Persians have had their own culture and civilization so hence they don't need to feel affinity to stranger. Well the people in the Indian subcontinent did not, although most of it came via Turko-Persian dynasties and not the Arabs. So they think their is cultural link with Turks and Persians, despite their is not much as their culturally south Asian. The Arab lineage is claimed because they want to be more genuine or what have you, but they relate themselves to the Turks, Persians, and so on because they were basically a people with rich empires, the Arabs to but they feel more kinship to the Turks, Persians who don't have much genetic relation to them due to linguistic or cultural elements brought on. The Arab impact on the Indian subcontinent was very small, the Turko-Persians made a good lasting effect especially under the Mughals.

[Arhat]

actually afghan pashtuns are close to some pamiri people of eastern tajikistan genetically who have similar genetic admixtures(west asian,indoeuropean,south asian,central asian and a bit east asian) But i think that pashtuns of pakistan are quite close to northern pakistanis but afghan pashtuns are more west asian and east asian shifted so they cluster rather with pamiri people

[jatt]

Well Persians did rule over the Arabs before the Arabs ruled over them to be honest. Also Arab nationalists are often anti-Persian. Persians have had their own culture and civilization so hence they don't need to feel affinity to stranger. Well the people in the Indian subcontinent did not, although most of it came via Turko-Persian dynasties and not the Arabs. So they think their is cultural link with Turks and Persians, despite their is not much as their culturally south Asian. The Arab lineage is claimed because they want to be more genuine or what have you, but they relate themselves to the Turks, Persians, and so on because they were basically a people with rich empires, the Arabs to but they feel more kinship to the Turks, Persians who don't have much genetic relation to them due to linguistic or cultural elements brought on. The Arab impact on the Indian subcontinent was very small, the Turko-Persians made a good lasting effect especially under the Mughals. Bro they like Arabs way more than Persians and Turks in my opinion because prophet Muhammad was Arab. They have high regard for Arabs.

[StonyArabia]

I should add that the Turko-Persian Muslims who invaded the Indian subcontinent were not Turks or Persians, but Central Asians who had a Persianate culture and spoke a Turkic language often between themselves. It was these people who established and strengthened the presence of Islam and qausi Persian elements. Arabs had little influence if they did we would in fact see a lot of Arab speakers and maybe paternal lineages we don't, but we see people wanting to relate to the real zones of Turko-Persian civilization that's Turkey and Iran, despite the fact no one from these nations had their foot their, it was all done by Central Asians like the Ghurids, Ghazavanids, and last of them are the Moghuls.

[jatt]

bro gauris and gaznawis invaded india for looting and pillaging .. they didn't established empires. the true emripre builders were mugals. mugal word itself means mongoloids. the first mugal emperor to invade india was babur from Samarkand in uzbekistsan.. many Pakistanis claim to mugals especially the domestic helpers lol.

[jatt]

most pashtuns have this typical afghan look 53060 but some can look like persians,uzbeks or punjabies but on average they look similar to persians than indians

this is how kashmiris and gujjars look too

.http://www.topnews.in/files/Gujjar.jpghttp://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000WRf92PyC2pE/fit=1000x750/india-gujjar-06-07-19-15-52-19.jpg

gujjar men

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20091212/dplus1.jpg

gujjars agitating for getting reservation from government of india.. gujjars are classified backward cast by government of india. so you see its not as if we in india don't have such mountainous looking people.. come to indian Punjab you will see tons of them living in mud huts on the sides of highway... the only nomadic people other than banjaras.

[Arhat]

gujjars agitating for getting reservation from government of india.. gujjars are classified backward cast by government of india. so you see its not as if we in india don't have such mountainous looking people.. come to indian Punjab you will see tons of them living in mud huts on the sides of highway... the only nomadic people other than banjaras.
yes only kashmiri can have this sterotypical afghan look but they are clearly more indian shifted in their physical appereance.Pashtuns and eastern iranic people(saka,kushan,hepthalites) ruled northern india and especially punjab very often and this areas were often invaded by nomadic tribes of eastern iranic or altaic origin who enslaved the local population and had much "fun" there.So many pashtuns also settled there.It is very funny that you claim that pashtuns and mountain tribes of pakistan and northern india(kashmir) are inferior to plain indians,who were often just the servants of this "barbaric" tribes .Even the first indo-aryans who invaded india came from the mountains of afghanistan and pakistan and brought sanskrit to the indian subcontinent.Actually dardic/indo-aryan mountain tribes of kashmir,pakistan and afghanistan(pashayi) are the closest population to ancient vedic indo-aryans genetically and linguistically

But originally the indo-aryans and iranic people originated like other indoeuropeans in the eastern europe steppe and migrated via central asia to afghanistan,pakistan,iran and india

[scytsar]

Pashtuns wrapped in self hate, are you kidding me? They're way too overly proud, trust me I'm partly one. And you say we reject any south asian identity, well why should we accept any south asian identity? What south asian identity do we have other than raiding it and pillaging it a countless number of times or that one time when alexander's general lost a satrap to the mauryans? Hell we even reject iranian identity, tell a pashtun or actually any afghan whether they're tajik or pashtun that they're part of the "iranian peoples" and they'll give you a dirty look. And closest to sindhis, are you kidding me? Maybe 'pathans' are close to them owing to the fact that they live in the indian subcontinent but afghan pashtuns and hell even the tribal pakistani ones that don't live in the cities are quite distinct. The only people I'd consider somewhat close to us would be some punjabis who can sometimes look like us.

It's just dumb to lump pashtuns, especially the afghanistani ones in with south asians genetically, linguistically and definitely culturally.

[scytsar]

I beg pardon for mistooking for afghan. Don't insult an Indian by saying we like
Afghans. Who the fuck R they. We can crush them like bugs. My ancestors ruled over that part Nd even to this day they say to their kids chup Che Singh nalwa vagela. Meaning keep quite or Sikhs will come. Just don't talk indians and Pakistani mentality as same. The people these Pakistani worship are like cockroach for us. Got it my friennd
Is that what they teach you in the gurdwaras? Listen I like sikhs and think of them as good people but by god some of them (only an online phenomenon to be honest) are literally retarded. You think pashtuns, who literally caused a sikh holocaust twice, who invaded india with the samanids, ghorids, ghaznavids, durranis so on and so forth give a crap that they lost some clay to some sikhs who were heavily aided by the british?

And pakistanis worship us? Dude, we hate pakistanis and they hate us. We like indians, they like us. And no, that thing you said about singh nalwa or whatever is a self propagated myth by the sikhs, something to make themselves feel a little better after losing so hard.

[scytsar]

Bro they like Arabs way more than Persians and Turks in my opinion because prophet Muhammad was Arab. They have high regard for Arabs.

You're wrong here, afghans probably like turks (from turkey) the most. Pashtuns are indifferent to persians and generally don't care about them. And arabs, are you kidding me? We like arabs but I've heard more than once from people we know that arabs are 'ayash' meaning they're quite rough or rowdy and to not let their daughter marry an arab.

[jatt]

You're wrong here, afghans probably like turks (from turkey) the most. Pashtuns are indifferent to persians and generally don't care about them. And arabs, are you kidding me? We like arabs but I've heard more than once from people we know that arabs are 'ayash' meaning they're quite rough or rowdy and to not let their daughter marry an arab. I got this impression from some Pakistani pashtoons.. they show abnormal level of arab servitude. lot of Pakistani pashtoons even dress like arabs now a days.. lol anyways nice to meet proud pashtoon.. haha

[Truthbetold]

Pashtuns wrapped in self hate, are you kidding me? They're way too overly proud, trust me I'm partly one. And you say we reject any south asian identity, well why should we accept any south asian identity? What south asian identity do we have other than raiding it and pillaging it a countless number of times or that one time when alexander's general lost a satrap to the mauryans? Hell we even reject iranian identity, tell a pashtun or actually any afghan whether they're tajik or pashtun that they're part of the "iranian peoples" and they'll give you a dirty look. And closest to sindhis, are you kidding me? Maybe 'pathans' are close to them owing to the fact that they live in the indian subcontinent but afghan pashtuns and hell even the tribal pakistani ones that don't live in the cities are quite distinct. The only people I'd consider somewhat close to us would be some punjabis who can sometimes look like us.

It's just dumb to lump pashtuns, especially the afghanistani ones in with south asians genetically, linguistically and definitely culturally.

We saw the plots, PCA's, and quotes from genetic papers on the first page. Personal opinions can't change reality especially when hard facts are posted. Pashtuns are a South-Central Asian people, historically and culturally. Their tribalistic culture and overal mores are close to Central Asians. But genetically, they're clearly South Asian.
If they're not South Asian genetically (as in belonging with other South Asians), then so are not the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachali's, High Caste Northern Hindu Indians etc, whom the Pashtuns cluster closely with, and yes such statement would be an obvious fallacy.

[scytsar]

I got this impression from some Pakistani pashtoons.. they show abnormal level of arab servitude. lot of Pakistani pashtoons even dress like arabs now a days.. lol anyways nice to meet proud pashtoon.. haha

What 'dress like arabs' are you referring to? Just because the dresses look similar doesn't mean they're the same. What arab servitude? Are you just pulling random anecdotes out of nowhere? It seems to me you believe that anybody who's muslim worships arabs.

[scytsar]

We saw the plots, PCA's, and quotes from genetic papers on the first page. Personal opinions can't change reality especially when hard facts are posted. Pashtuns are a South-Central Asian people, historically and culturally. Their tribalistic culture and overal mores are close to Central Asians. But genetically, they're clearly South Asian.
If they're not South Asian genetically (as in belonging with other South Asians), then so are not the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachali's, High Caste Northern Hindu Indians etc, whom the Pashtuns cluster closely with, and yes such statement would be an obvious fallacy.

Like I said, some 'pathans' in india or pakistan are probably much more south asian shifted/oriented. Those samples were probably from said 'pathans' from india/pakistan and not actually from afghanistan let alone the tribal areas in pakistan. We look different to almost every indian aside from kashmiris, we have a completely different set of cultures to them and speak entirely different languages. Just take a look at any of the studies on afghan pashtuns and you'll see they cluster with themselves and not with any indian.

Also, I'm saying that we're south asian shifted meaning there definitely IS south asian influence, but to believe we're completely south asian is just troll tier

[jatt]

Is that what they teach you in the gurdwaras? Listen I like sikhs and think of them as good people but by god some of them (only an online phenomenon to be honest) are literally retarded. You think pashtuns, who literally caused a sikh holocaust twice, who invaded india with the samanids, ghorids, ghaznavids, durranis so on and so forth give a crap that they lost some clay to some sikhs who were heavily aided by the british?

And pakistanis worship us? Dude, we hate pakistanis and they hate us. We like indians, they like us. And no, that thing you said about singh nalwa or whatever is a self propagated myth by the sikhs, something to make themselves feel a little better after losing so hard. ghorids and ghaznavids were not pashtoons they were turkiks. the only time pashtoons ever controlled indian part of Punjab was just one year which Sikhs wrestled back from them including many afghan controlled territories.

[jatt]

Like I said, some 'pathans' in india or pakistan are probably much more south asian shifted/oriented. Those samples were probably from said 'pathans' from india/pakistan and not actually from afghanistan let alone the tribal areas in pakistan. We look different to almost every indian aside from kashmiris, we have a completely different set of cultures to them and speak entirely different languages. Just take a look at any of the studies on afghan pashtuns and you'll see they cluster with themselves and not with any indian.

Also, I'm saying that we're south asian shifted meaning there definitely IS south asian influence, but to believe we're completely south asian is just troll tier

south Asians are hetrogenous people my friend not homogenous like Chinese.. tell me what similarities does kashmiris,tamils and north easterners have with one another. but yet we are all south Asians. you guys are no different. indians speak various language too but it is foolish to say we aint south Asians just because we have tiny bit differnces among us.

[jatt]

What 'dress like arabs' are you referring to? Just because the dresses look similar doesn't mean they're the same. What arab servitude? Are you just pulling random anecdotes out of nowhere? It seems to me you believe that anybody who's muslim worships arabs. there are many Pakistani and pashtoon forums .. log onto them and you will get an idea.. this thread was not started by me by the way..even Europeans have observed this phenomenon among south Asians muslims

[scytsar]

ghorids and ghaznavids were not pashtoons they were turkiks. the only time pashtoons ever controlled indian part of Punjab was just one year which Sikhs wrestled back from them including many afghan controlled territories.

Sounds like you need to open up a history book - if you can't you could even learn this stuff from wikipedia. The ghorids are contested to be either pashtun or tajik and I personally believe they were tajik. The ghaznavids were not completely turkic, mahmud of ghazni was half turkic half persian (nowadays tajik). The armies of these dynasties and several others were most definitely composed of pashtuns among other muslims at the time. And dude, seriously you need to learn history, even wikipedia would expand your knowledge to something more than whatever it is they tell you at the gurdwaras lol. Ghaznavids, delhi sultanates, durranis - these were all arguably pashtun engineered rule over parts of what is now pakistan and india - no matter the dynasty, pashtun or tajik (I'm both by the way) they ruled over parts of india for decades to centuries at a time. And yes, the sikhs were able to fight off pashtun aggression but let's be honest it was done with quite a bit of british help not to mention the durrani and ghilzai tribes were always infighting with one another at the time, sometimes even switching allegiances to the punjabi/british side to gain favor after the victory.

[scytsar]

there are many Pakistani and pashtoon forums .. log onto them and you will get an idea.. this thread was not started by me by the way..even Europeans have observed this phenomenon among south Asians muslims

go to pashtunforums and see what they think of arabs and pakis there lol

[jatt]

Sounds like you need to open up a history book - if you can't you could even learn this stuff from wikipedia. The ghorids are contested to be either pashtun or tajik and I personally believe they were tajik. The ghaznavids were not completely turkic, mahmud of ghazni was half turkic half persian (nowadays tajik). The armies of these dynasties and several others were most definitely composed of pashtuns among other muslims at the time. And dude, seriously you need to learn history, even wikipedia would expand your knowledge to something more than whatever it is they tell you at the gurdwaras lol. Ghaznavids, delhi sultanates, durranis - these were all arguably pashtun engineered rule over parts of what is now pakistan and india - no matter the dynasty, pashtun or tajik (I'm both by the way) they ruled over parts of india for decades to centuries at a time. And yes, the sikhs were able to fight off pashtun aggression but let's be honest it was done with quite a bit of british help not to mention the durrani and ghilzai tribes were always infighting with one another at the time, sometimes even switching allegiances to the punjabi/british side to gain favor after the victory.

it seems you need to read history not me.. there were no british in Punjab at them times of Sikh misls and Sikh empire...actually half of Afghanistan is in Pakistan because british inherited the area from Sikh empire.. don't spread ignorance

[Dynamo]

Why do the Pashtuns (who form a significant amount of the Pakistani population and are the largest group in Afghanistan) have such an extreme amount of self hate regarding what they are?
Historically, they are tied to South-Central Asia. Genetically, they're CLOSELY linked with other South Asian populations such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, and Sindhi's. Geographically, most of them live in Pakistan. after that Afghanistan. Last time I checked Pakistan was South Asia, and Afghanistan lies both in South Asia and Central Asia.
Pashtuns are clear cut South Asian people by genetics. They cluster with other Northwest South Asians. I was reading some comments on this forum, and once again I noted that there are Pashtuns who live in some bubble regarding this fact.
They think that because they speak an Iranic language, they are somehow not related to their closest geographical and historical brothers; the Indic Pakistanis and Northwest Indians.
This menace needs to stop. A Turkic speaking Turk from Turkey is closer genetically to a Semitic speaking Syrian, an Iranic speaking Kurd or Persian, than to a Turkic speaking Central Asian, by genetics. A Turkic speaking Azerbaijani is genetically much and much closer related to a Persian speaking Iranian, or a Kartvelian speaking Georgian, than to a Turkic speaking Uyghur. By the same logic, an Iranic speaking Pashtun is closer to an Indo-Aryan speaking Sindhi, Kashmiri, Himachali, and even up to including High Caste Hindu's from Central India, than to any West Asian group. Linguistics =/= genotype, the same way all people know and acknowledge that phenotype =/= genotype.

Pashtuns don't just ''cluster'' somewhere loosely in South Asia, no they cluster firmly in South Asia genetically. Some South Asians just sound so self-haterish on the internet. For outsiders its very confusing and quite a hilarious scene. I assume the ''lightness'' factor plays a role as well considering what role it always has played in south asia. Would be the reason why Pashtuns (as they are so-called the lightest south asians, no?) find it so insulting to be compared to their darker but close genetic brothers, the Sindhi's, high caste Hindu Indians, Kashmiri's, etc.

The haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) is found at a frequency of 51.02% among the Pashtun people. Paragroup Q-M242 (xMEH2, xM378) (of Haplogroup Q-M242 (Y-DNA)) was found at 16.3% in Pashtuns.[89] Haplogroup Q-M242 is also found at a frequency of 18% in Pashtuns in the Afghan capital of Kabul.[90]

According to a 2012 study:

"MDS and Barrier analysis have identified a significant affinity between Pashtun, Tajik, North Indian, and West Indian populations, creating an Afghan-Indian population structure that excludes the Hazaras, Uzbeks, and the South Indian Dravidian speakers. In addition, gene flow to Afghanistan from India marked by Indian lineages, L-M20, H-M69, and R2a-M124, also seems to mostly involve Pashtuns and Tajiks. This genetic affinity and gene flow suggests interactions that could have existed since at least the establishment of the region's first civilizations at the Indus Valley and the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex."

source: Haber M, Platt DE, Ashrafian Bonab M, Youhanna SC, Soria-Hernanz DF et al. (2012). "Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage Structured by Historical Events". PLoS ONE 7 (3): e34288. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0034288. PMC 3314501. PMID 22470552.

World plots/PCA's.

http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2008137066/2030915790/gr1.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3074/eumescalabeled.jpg

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v466/n7303/carousel/nature09103-f3.2.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HwyKjFcicAQ/T3Nbet3odMI/AAAAAAAAEtc/9Le5g_dLfuc/s1600/journal.pone.0034288.g001.png

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0076748


As compared to West Asia/European/Eurasia plots

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UCP5T1pduGU/TzpBa9QbK3I/AAAAAAAAEe4/_uWuqnnb1zQ/s1600/1_2.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_6XAIk6ygtg/Tcqj7WCS_jI/AAAAAAAADsU/WJDG6R2XnH0/s1600/waeu.png

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6945/neareast13labeled.png

http://pichoster.net/images/2014/02/13/Eurasia%20PCA.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TBDgV2r3hxI/AAAAAAAACck/sYi1shNB8bc/s1600/westeurasianpca.jpg

Sure they're not the same as other South Asians etc in all aspects, but genetically, geographically and to a certain good extent phenotypically, they are firmly South Asian. Culturally however they received influence from wider regions.
Pashtuns, like all other South Asian populations are very far from West Asians genetically, and even more further from Europeans. (Tbh, even hilarious to discuss all this)
A Pashtun is genetically closer to Indians all the way up to South India, than he is towards a West Asian Georgian.

A population hailing mostly from Pakistan (clear cut South Asia) and from Afghanistan (a nation in South Asia and Central Asia), that genetically cluster and overlap with peoples such as Punjabi Jatts, Baloch, Sindhi's, and high caste Hindu Indians, are just South Asian.

"South Asian" doesn't equate Punjabi/Tamil/Sindhi etc. it's a wide diverse region. We're talking about genetics however. Genetically they overlap and cluster with other South Asians (or either Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiri, Himachali people are not South Asian anymore genetically?), geographically they are also mostly South Asian (worlds largest amount of Pashtuns live in South Asian Pakistan), so they are South Asians. Of course their language and culture differs somewhat from other close clustering South Asians (Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiri's etc), but did/does it change their genetics remotely significantly? No.

Pashtuns, should embrace their closest genetic, historical, and cultural brothers, the Indic Pakistanis, and the Northwest Indians, and not be such self haters on the internet. It all doesn't change reality and neither does it bring anything to either peoples other than more chisms and hate in that already troubled region of the world.


The cluster Map you've shown represents the pakistani pashtuns, they are significantly more South Asian than the afghan pashtuns. The afgghan pashtuns forms the gap berween the iranian cluster and Pathan cluster. Language wise yes, we speak a iranic language. Phenotypically we are iranid. Not North indid. There's no self hate.

[scytsar]

it seems you need to read history not me.. there were no british in Punjab at them times of Sikh misls and Sikh empire...actually half of Afghanistan is in Pakistan because british inherited the area from Sikh empire.. don't spread ignorance
hahaahaha oh wow, seriously m8 open a book or wikipedia as I said so you can get real knowledge and not gurdwara knowledge. This is literally muslims studying in madrassas their entire lives tier.

[Dynamo]

Look at the genetic charts he posted. Pathans are almost the same as other Pakistani groups. They do not cluster with Iranians on regional PCA plots.

That's because it shows the pakistani Pathans!! Their average South indian score on harappa world was around 30%!! For sfghsn pashtuns IT was 14%!!!!!!!!! The afghan pashtuns are much more west shifted

[scytsar]

Anyway I literally don't see what the point OP is trying to make here, he's essentially trying to say afghans are south asian. Go ask south asians what they think of us and they'll literally tell you they consider us the same as arabs and iranians i.e. completely foreign. Hell we're not even 'desi' by any measure. There's literally nothing wrong with having south asian genes (and even then it hardly has an effect on phenotype considering most of us look iranic and quite distinct from any population in india other than kashmiris and SOME punjabis) but what is wrong is to say we're south asian culturally or linguistically which simply isn't true other than perhaps the fact that we tend to like bollywood.

[Dynamo]

Why do the Pashtuns (who form a significant amount of the Pakistani population and are the largest group in Afghanistan) have such an extreme amount of self hate regarding what they are?
Historically, they are tied to South-Central Asia. Genetically, they're CLOSELY linked with other South Asian populations such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, and Sindhi's. Geographically, most of them live in Pakistan. after that Afghanistan. Last time I checked Pakistan was South Asia, and Afghanistan lies both in South Asia and Central Asia.
Pashtuns are clear cut South Asian people by genetics. They cluster with other Northwest South Asians. I was reading some comments on this forum, and once again I noted that there are Pashtuns who live in some bubble regarding this fact.
They think that because they speak an Iranic language, they are somehow not related to their closest geographical and historical brothers; the Indic Pakistanis and Northwest Indians.
This menace needs to stop. A Turkic speaking Turk from Turkey is closer genetically to a Semitic speaking Syrian, an Iranic speaking Kurd or Persian, than to a Turkic speaking Central Asian, by genetics. A Turkic speaking Azerbaijani is genetically much and much closer related to a Persian speaking Iranian, or a Kartvelian speaking Georgian, than to a Turkic speaking Uyghur. By the same logic, an Iranic speaking Pashtun is closer to an Indo-Aryan speaking Sindhi, Kashmiri, Himachali, and even up to including High Caste Hindu's from Central India, than to any West Asian group. Linguistics =/= genotype, the same way all people know and acknowledge that phenotype =/= genotype.

Pashtuns don't just ''cluster'' somewhere loosely in South Asia, no they cluster firmly in South Asia genetically. Some South Asians just sound so self-haterish on the internet. For outsiders its very confusing and quite a hilarious scene. I assume the ''lightness'' factor plays a role as well considering what role it always has played in south asia. Would be the reason why Pashtuns (as they are so-called the lightest south asians, no?) find it so insulting to be compared to their darker but close genetic brothers, the Sindhi's, high caste Hindu Indians, Kashmiri's, etc.

The haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) is found at a frequency of 51.02% among the Pashtun people. Paragroup Q-M242 (xMEH2, xM378) (of Haplogroup Q-M242 (Y-DNA)) was found at 16.3% in Pashtuns.[89] Haplogroup Q-M242 is also found at a frequency of 18% in Pashtuns in the Afghan capital of Kabul.[90]

According to a 2012 study:

"MDS and Barrier analysis have identified a significant affinity between Pashtun, Tajik, North Indian, and West Indian populations, creating an Afghan-Indian population structure that excludes the Hazaras, Uzbeks, and the South Indian Dravidian speakers. In addition, gene flow to Afghanistan from India marked by Indian lineages, L-M20, H-M69, and R2a-M124, also seems to mostly involve Pashtuns and Tajiks. This genetic affinity and gene flow suggests interactions that could have existed since at least the establishment of the region's first civilizations at the Indus Valley and the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex."

source: Haber M, Platt DE, Ashrafian Bonab M, Youhanna SC, Soria-Hernanz DF et al. (2012). "Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage Structured by Historical Events". PLoS ONE 7 (3): e34288. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0034288. PMC 3314501. PMID 22470552.

World plots/PCA's.

http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2008137066/2030915790/gr1.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3074/eumescalabeled.jpg

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v466/n7303/carousel/nature09103-f3.2.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HwyKjFcicAQ/T3Nbet3odMI/AAAAAAAAEtc/9Le5g_dLfuc/s1600/journal.pone.0034288.g001.png

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0076748


As compared to West Asia/European/Eurasia plots

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UCP5T1pduGU/TzpBa9QbK3I/AAAAAAAAEe4/_uWuqnnb1zQ/s1600/1_2.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_6XAIk6ygtg/Tcqj7WCS_jI/AAAAAAAADsU/WJDG6R2XnH0/s1600/waeu.png

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6945/neareast13labeled.png

http://pichoster.net/images/2014/02/13/Eurasia%20PCA.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TBDgV2r3hxI/AAAAAAAACck/sYi1shNB8bc/s1600/westeurasianpca.jpg

Sure they're not the same as other South Asians etc in all aspects, but genetically, geographically and to a certain good extent phenotypically, they are firmly South Asian. Culturally however they received influence from wider regions.
Pashtuns, like all other South Asian populations are very far from West Asians genetically, and even more further from Europeans. (Tbh, even hilarious to discuss all this)
A Pashtun is genetically closer to Indians all the way up to South India, than he is towards a West Asian Georgian.

A population hailing mostly from Pakistan (clear cut South Asia) and from Afghanistan (a nation in South Asia and Central Asia), that genetically cluster and overlap with peoples such as Punjabi Jatts, Baloch, Sindhi's, and high caste Hindu Indians, are just South Asian.

"South Asian" doesn't equate Punjabi/Tamil/Sindhi etc. it's a wide diverse region. We're talking about genetics however. Genetically they overlap and cluster with other South Asians (or either Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiri, Himachali people are not South Asian anymore genetically?), geographically they are also mostly South Asian (worlds largest amount of Pashtuns live in South Asian Pakistan), so they are South Asians. Of course their language and culture differs somewhat from other close clustering South Asians (Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiri's etc), but did/does it change their genetics remotely significantly? No.

Pashtuns, should embrace their closest genetic, historical, and cultural brothers, the Indic Pakistanis, and the Northwest Indians, and not be such self haters on the internet. It all doesn't change reality and neither does it bring anything to either peoples other than more chisms and hate in that already troubled region of the world.

Are you kidding me?!!!! An pashtun closer to South indian than to caucasian?!!! Loooooooool. Look at the fst distances mate, pashtuns from Afghanistan are closer to Caucasians thsn to gujaratis let alone South indians
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchSingleRepresentation.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0076748.s004

[Dynamo]

Anyway I literally don't see what the point OP is trying to make here, he's essentially trying to say afghans are south asian. Go ask south asians what they think of us and they'll literally tell you they consider us the same as arabs and iranians i.e. completely foreign. Hell we're not even 'desi' by any measure. There's literally nothing wrong with having south asian genes (and even then it hardly has an effect on phenotype considering most of us look iranic and quite distinct from any population in india other than kashmiris and SOME punjabis) but what is wrong is to say we're south asian culturally or linguistically which simply isn't true other than perhaps the fact that we tend to like bollywood.
The fucking OP is a ignorabt self hating fuck, I guarantee you modt people have no clue about us but flipping act like experts on us loooool give that guy a dildo

[Dynamo]

A message to the OP: you talk about genetics? Here is a AFGHAN PASHTUN resukts: South asian? Gimme a break. The Pathans in the cluster which you have shown had South indian admixture more than 30%!!! Afghanistan is the homelabd of afghans, sI don't give ME that Pathan homeland bullcrap. Btw this guy was nowhere near the Indian cluster, he was much closer to the iranian, adgyei Georgian turkish cluster.


Paternal: J1
Maternal: M30D1

Ethnicity: Afghan Pashtun

34.19% Baloch
26.42% Caucasian
14.71% South Indian
12.85% Northeast Euro
3.15% Southwest Asian
2.72% Mediterranean
2.11% Siberian
1.15% Northeast Asian
1.09% Beringian
0.97% American
0.59% West African
0.02% Papuan
0.02% Southeast Asian
0% San
0% Pygmy
0% East African

K=15

29.80% Caucasian
12.92% Balkanic
11.25% South-Central-Asian
11.11% West Altaic
7.16% Balto-Slavic
6.36% East Mediterranean
5.12% Uralic Permic
4.23% East Altaic
4.15% Volga-Uralic
3.65% Celto-Germanic
3.07% Balto Finnic
1.07% Paleo-North-European
0.07% Balkanic-2
0.04% Iberian
0.00% West-Mediterranean

K=12

36.79% Caucasian
14.54% Volga-Uralic
11.87% South-Central Asian
9.72% Paleo-Mediterranean
8.21% East-European
5.43% Uralic-Permic
4.38% Asian
4.36% Celto-Germanic
3.22% Balto-Finnic
1.25% Paleo-North-Euroepan
0.21% Paleo-Balkanic
0.03% Iberian

[jatt]

hahaahaha oh wow, seriously m8 open a book or wikipedia as I said so you can get real knowledge and not gurdwara knowledge. This is literally muslims studying in madrassas their entire lives tier.

dude we Sikhs don't have to make up fairy tale stories to feel confident.. our gurudwaras don't teach hate or false history neither do we have to look upto other peoples achievements to feel proud.. we are good soldiers, better businessmen, better farmers, never beg, people feel safe in our company n our culture is copied by Bollywood, we are tall and good looking which is a plus as well.so u see we don't have to look upto others achievements to feel proud.

[Dynamo]

And we look South Asian?!!! Loooooooooool since when did Desis from Pakistan and Indian looks like these people?:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xUwYNwzrgQk
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXsEAjwjO3c
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gsJo9SvPH2I
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-zwoEpzsQ
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hGgBrrrqjk0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wn4VKgYn7g8

[scytsar]

dude we Sikhs don't have to make up fairy tale stories to feel confident.. our gurudwaras don't teach hate or false history neither do we have to look upto other peoples achievements to feel proud.. we are good soldiers, better businessmen, better farmers, never beg, people feel safe in our company n our culture is copied by Bollywood, we are tall and good looking which is a plus as well.so u see we don't have to look upto others achievements to feel proud.

I agree with everything you said, sikhs are great people. But come on now you guys are obsessed with muslims and afghans on the internet, always seeking to defame us or saying things like "oh 20,000 of them got killed by like 2 of us" or "lol x DDD they stil r afred of us x Ddd". You're literally more butthurt about us and muslims in general than we could ever be of you.

[jatt]

I agree with everything you said, sikhs are great people. But come on now you guys are obsessed with muslims and afghans on the internet, always seeking to defame us or saying things like "oh 20,000 of them got killed by like 2 of us" or "lol xDDD they stil r afred of us xDdd"
don't get me wrong my friend. I seriously met some deluded people in net. anyways u seem like good guy.. end of the day all I want to say you don't have to bum kiss others. you are better than the people some of your people are so eager to associate with.

[Dynamo]

Oh I'm not done yet haha

Average afghsns( there's no agenda except the OP clearly has an sgebda trying to group us with South Asians)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?128878-Classify-Afghan-teams
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?99865-Which-country-can-these-afghans-fit-in
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?119216-What-phenotypes-are-present-in-these-Afghan-Footballers-from-USA-and-London
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?115138-Classify-these-Afghan-Journalists
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?115477-Classify-these-4-Afghan-Footballers
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?112005-Classify-some-Afghan-female-singers
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?106825-Where-can-these-afghans-pass
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?133954-Classify-group-of-afghans

[scytsar]

don't get me wrong my friend. I seriously met some deluded people in net. anyways u seem like good guy.. end of the day all I want to say you don't have to bum kiss others. you are better than the people some of your people are so eager to associate with.

See you're doing it again, what people do we try to associate with? Delusion runs in the minds of everyone who visits ethnocentric forums and that definitely applies to indians and pakis (seriously just go look at defence.pk for a laugh) as well.

[Dynamo]

We saw the plots, PCA's, and quotes from genetic papers on the first page. Personal opinions can't change reality especially when hard facts are posted. Pashtuns are a South-Central Asian people, historically and culturally. Their tribalistic culture and overal mores are close to Central Asians. But genetically, they're clearly South Asian.
If they're not South Asian genetically (as in belonging with other South Asians), then so are not the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachali's, High Caste Northern Hindu Indians etc, whom the Pashtuns cluster closely with, and yes such statement would be an obvious fallacy.

Well genius in what wat South asian? Now you know those were pakistani Pathans who God knows what their forefathers married, what now? Afghab Pashtuns are majority west asian, less South Asian thsn the ones you've hat wet dreams over. Burst your bubble?? Aww that's cute.

[Dynamo]

I beg pardon for mistooking for afghan. Don't insult an Indian by saying we like
Afghans. Who the fuck R they. We can crush them like bugs. My ancestors ruled over that part Nd even to this day they say to their kids chup Che Singh nalwa vagela. Meaning keep quite or Sikhs will come. Just don't talk indians and Pakistani mentality as same. The people these Pakistani worship are like cockroach for us. Got it my friennd

Wait what? Crush afghans? Looooooooooooool over here mate Bhai, if your sardar jis find out if yiur afghab they'll kiss your feet while passing their pants looooooool

[Dynamo]

Pashtonwali my ass. They are known for selling their women in Pakistan. Anyone who can't find a wife go to pashtoon areas and buy women.

Your one ugky motherfucker soooo

[jatt]

See you're doing it again, what people do we try to associate with? Delusion runs in the minds of everyone who visits ethnocentric forums and that definitely applies to indians and pakis (seriously just go look at defence.pk for a laugh) as well.

http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2011/09/29/SC-governor-targets-legislators-pensions-94EA8AR-x-large.jpg

governor of south Carolina..a Sikh lady

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x36/patrick-tovma/India/hemaboys3aw.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4004/4380771826_b6c777043d_z.jpg?zz=1 http://trixiesplatz.de/KabirBediSandokan.jpg

Sikh dudes... lol saying Sikhs are not south Asians because some are weird looking are foolish

[jatt]

Your one ugky motherfucker soooo

lol did I touched some nerve ..u seem butthurt.. lol are you into bacha bazi.. lol

[scytsar]

governor of south Carolina..a Sikh lady


Sikh dudes... lol saying Sikhs are not south Asians because some are weird looking are foolish

Literally what was the point of your post m8

[jatt]

Literally what was the point of your post m8
people are known by how majority of them look not by posting some cherry picked pictures

[scytsar]

people are known by how majority of them look not by posting some cherry picked pictures

and what does that have to do with us? are you seriously implying we look south asian?

[jatt]

and what does that have to do with us? are you seriously implying we look south asian?
u deny you look like kashmiris who are south Asians..

[scytsar]

u deny you look like kashmiris who are south Asians..

I said some kashmiris and punjabis CAN look like us. And let's be honest they look quite distinct from the rest of the north indians.

[jatt]

I said some kashmiris and punjabis CAN look like us. And let's be honest they look quite distinct from the rest of the north indians.

does tajiks and pashtoons in Afghanistan look same to same.. not right..so whats this obsession with looking different from other south Asians when all afghans are not similar looking either..indian probably have 50 different nationalities living side by side.. we all proudly claim to be south Asians..

[Dynamo]

http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2011/09/29/SC-governor-targets-legislators-pensions-94EA8AR-x-large.jpg

governor of south Carolina..a Sikh lady

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x36/patrick-tovma/India/hemaboys3aw.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4004/4380771826_b6c777043d_z.jpg?zz=1 http://trixiesplatz.de/KabirBediSandokan.jpg

Sikh dudes... lol saying Sikhs are not south Asians because some are weird looking are foolish

First one is half white lol the two guys with "amazing eyes" wow look like gypsies. Doesbt the last guy have Pathan ancestry ? Sikhs over here are one ugly motherfuckers, brown like my shit

[scytsar]

does tajiks and pashtoons in Afghanistan look same to same.. not right..so whats this obsession with looking different from other south Asians when all afghans are not similar looking either..indian probably have 50 different nationalities living side by side.. we all proudly claim to be south Asians..

Yes actually, tajiks and pashtuns in afghanistan mostly look the same. I have a shitton of pashtun and tajik friends and on both my tajik and pashtun side of the family I can hardly differentiate between the two. The only tajiks and pashtuns that look distinct are tajiks in the far north where they sort of look asian or white and the pashtuns in places like nangarhar where they're really, really brown.

Listen, we'd proudly call ourselves south asians if we were south asian, hell we're part of the iranian peoples yet we deny and reject almost any sort of association with iran the same exact way we reject anything south asian (like our buddhist or hindu heritage among our zoroastrian heritage). The only thing connecting us to arabs perhaps is islam - other than that we first call ourselves afghan, and if you were to ask an afghan what he is culturally or geographically they'll tell you middle eastern or central asian.

[jatt]

Cuz you ugly fuck we are not south asians!! Don't group is with desis, we are not similar!!!! Look at the afghans I posted, di they look like patels, pundey and singhs?

i saw those videos you posted..whats big deal they all look like those chunnu munnu pahari shyte types whom we slap around. it is people like you who suffer from deep rooted inferiority complex

[Dynamo]

Yes actually, tajiks and pashtuns in afghanistan mostly look the same. I have a shitton of pashtun and tajik friends and on both my tajik and pashtun side of the family I can hardly differentiate between the two. The only tajiks and pashtuns that look distinct are tajiks in the far north where they sort of look asian or white and the pashtuns in places like nangarhar where they're really, really brown.

Listen, we'd proudly call ourselves south asians if we were south asian, hell we're part of the iranian peoples yet we deny and reject almost any sort of association with iran. The only thing connecting us to arabs perhaps is islam - other than that we first call ourselves afghan, and if you were to ask an afghan what he is culturally or geographically they'll tell you middle eastern or central asian.

Exactly, don't get it twisted, I flipping hate Iranians but at the end of the day, I feel more related to them than anyone else other than Tajiks from Tajikistan.

[Dynamo]

i saw those videos you posted..whats big deal they all look like those chunnu munnu pahari shyte types whom we slap around. it is people like you who suffer from deep rooted inferiority complex

Haha your not making sense mate. I'll take it I proved my point .

[scytsar]

Exactly, don't get it twisted, I flipping hate Iranians but at the end of the day, I feel more related to them than anyone else other than Tajiks from Tajikistan.
I feel closes to tajiks in tajikistan even though they look more asian other than the pamiri ones who kind of look white. They speak in a dialect very similar to ours and don't sound like koonis like when some iranis speak farsi. I can hardly understand pashtuns from the cities in pakistan, they've mixed in way too much urdu in their speech.


i saw those videos you posted..whats big deal they all look like those chunnu munnu pahari shyte types whom we slap around. it is people like you who suffer from deep rooted inferiority complex

is sex and perversion all you think about?

[jatt]

tajiks are more central Asians looking and many of them show mongoloid eyes while pashtoons are like kashmiris. dunno why afghans keep on denying this..if it was all same same people there wouldn't been this much bllodshed between tajiks and pashtoons.

[Arhat]

tajiks are more central Asians looking and many of them show mongoloid eyes while pashtoons are like kashmiris. dunno why afghans keep on denying this..if it was all same same people there wouldn't been this much bllodshed between tajiks and pashtoons.

you probably never saw an afghan tajik to claim such ridicolous things about them.Afghan tajiks look much less east asian shifted than tajiks in tajikistan and most of them especially in eastern afghanistan (kabul,panshir,parwan,..) look just like pashtuns and pashtuns look just like them there.

[Dynamo]

tajiks are more central Asians looking and many of them show mongoloid eyes while pashtoons are like kashmiris. dunno why afghans keep on denying this..if it was all same same people there wouldn't been this much bllodshed between tajiks and pashtoons.

Now it's Kashmiris? Lol look at the google pics of them, they look pretty Indian to me although some do look very light. Most Tajiks in their pure form are Caucasian, mongoloid ones tend to be the ones in Samarkand Uzbekistan. Don't think your an expert daal wala I'm here .

[jatt]

you probably never saw an afghan tajik to claim such ridicolous things about them.Afghan tajiks look much less east asian shifted than tajiks in tajikistan and most of them escpecially in eastern afghanistan look just like pashtuns and pashtuns look just like them there. lol t live in Toronto and regularly visit kandhar kebab shop owned by Tajik afghans here.

[scytsar]

tajiks are more central Asians looking and many of them show mongoloid eyes while pashtoons are like kashmiris. dunno why afghans keep on denying this..if it was all same same people there wouldn't been this much bllodshed between tajiks and pashtoons.
lmao, half my family are tajiks, HALF, that's one entire side of my family filled with just tajiks, they look no different from my pashtun side.

[scytsar]

lol t live in Toronto and regularly visit kandhar kebab shop owned by Tajik afghans here.

yeah, KANDAHAR kebab owned by tajiks, this is how you spot a lie since kandahar is a pashtun dominated province.

[jatt]

Now it's Kashmiris? Lol look at the google pics of them, they look pretty Indian to me although some do look very light. Most Tajiks in their pure form are Caucasian, mongoloid ones tend to be the ones in Samarkand Uzbekistan. Don't think your an expert daal wala I'm here .

buddy you are talking to a Sikh... is that fuddu parang you in that picture.. lol we are taller mightier and better than you..now be yourself and act like yourself.. Sikhs will beat you any day

[jatt]

yeah, KANDAHAR kebab owned by tajiks, this is how you spot a lie since kandahar is a pashtun dominated province. so you mean no tajiks can own kandhar kebab and the owner told me a lie and he even look mongoloid from eye.

[Dynamo]

Loooooooool Ey someone give this jatt a plate of daal loool

[Vasconcelos]

Huh babaji Sala kameeneh benchod kuttah

Holy shit, sound the alarm, invasion alert.

[scytsar]

so you mean no tajiks can own kandhar kebab and the owner told me a lie and he even look mongoloid from eye.
well if he was mongoloid then he was most definitely a hazara
tajiks in afghanistan mostly look like this
53111
53112
53113
53114
53115
53116
man you are literally telling me about my OWN people

[jatt]

Where's your turban then if your a Sikh? Huh babaji Sala kameeneh benchod kuttah

this is internet forum and everyone can post their views but refrain from using disgusting language.. and here is me in turban http://i59.tinypic.com/2rqewbq.jpg

next time be in limits when debating.

[scytsar]

this is internet forum and everyone can post their views but refrain from using disgusting language.. and here is me in turban http://i59.tinypic.com/2rqewbq.jpg

next time be in limits when debating.

To be fair, you started with the insults. And you're literally acting as if you know more about us than we do.

[jatt]

To be fair, you started with the insults. And you're literally acting as if you know more about us than we do.

I was actually very polite.. other than when i claimed pashtoons selling women in northern Pakistan.. but there is truth to it... it was not directed as an insult. just a question if pashtoon was all that ghairatmand as they claim then why they have this sort of malpractice among them

[scytsar]

I was actually very polite.. other than when i claimed pashtoons selling women in northern Pakistan.. but there is truth to it... it was not directed as an insult. just a question if pashtoon was all that ghairatmand as they claim then why they have this sort of malpractice among them
you do realize we have the same saying about punjabis right? you probably heard something like that from your punjabi friend the same way we heard it about you. And how the hell can we be sold when it's the woman's family that pays money to the male's family to take the woman lol.

[jatt]

anyways its getting late here and i am in no mood to fight internet war here.. lol... buh bye peeps

[Mortimer]

jatt you are a extremely handsome guy, no wonder you scored with white chicks and were called international guy

[jatt]

jatt you are a extremely handsome guy, no wonder you scored with white chicks and were called international guy

thx bro.. appreciated your admiration..i no longer hit on any other women other than the one you know :thumb001:

[Mortimer]

thx bro.. appreciated your admiration..i no longer hit on any other women other than the one you know :thumb001:

she is extremely beautiful too nice couple.

[asingh]

We like indians, they like us.

I stopped reading here...!

What you said is correct. Pashtuns (or Pathans as we call them) are regarded as: Honorable, honest, truthful, and never-forgetting people. We say "Pathan ka bacha" (son of a Pathan); for anyone who is tough and resilient in "life". Most of the Bollywood actors love to glorify that they are Pathan off-spring. Indian's basically look up to Pashtuns with galore and awe...!

[scytsar]

I stopped reading here...!

What you said is correct. Pashtuns (or Pathans as we call them) are regarded as: Honorable, honest, truthful, and never-forgetting people. We say "Pathan ka bacha" (son of a Pathan); for anyone who is tough and resilient in "life". Most of the Bollywood actors love to glorify that they are Pathan off-spring. Indian's basically look up to Pashtuns with galore and awe...!

It goes the other way around too, one of Durrani's men recorded him saying something like "don't call the sikhs dogs since they are not, they are lions and fight like lions and they carry that in the 'singh' of their name, if you wish to learn how to fight, come and fight against the sikhs for they will teach you" too lazy to dig up the actual quote so I paraphrased.

[asingh]

It goes the other way around too, one of Durrani's men recorded him saying something like "don't call the sikhs dogs since they are not, they are lions and fight like lions and they carry that in the 'singh' of their name, if you wish to learn how to fight, come and fight against the sikhs for they will teach you" too lazy to dig up the actual quote so I paraphrased.

Yups...SINGH means LION. Somewhat how Singapore uses the misnomer..!

:)

Sikhs are a martial group, respected and feared. No one picks an argument out of the way in India: with a Turbaned Sikh.

By the way: Am not a Sikh. :)

[Dynamo]

Holy shit, sound the alarm, invasion alert.

I insulted him in his own language lol dw I'll tell you when I'm invading :)

[Dynamo]

Where's is the OP? Hiding in a hole are we?

[Dynamo]

Not just Pashtuns actually most of the Muslim meta-ethnicities there. Claiming all sorts of lineage from Arabic to Persian. I don't know if this is because of caste system (?). It has implications in the real world, especially when linked to Islamic radicalism (in a non-direct way). Many British Pakistanis have joined ISIS because of strong, superficial affinity with the Middle East and West Asia - they are willing to fight for MENA causes instead of their own. You even see it in universities - raising money for MENA causes instead of pumping it to their own countries. They think if you are light-skin and don't look typical Indian, you must have Arabic/Persian/Turkish ancestors - which makes no sense. I think it's a social issue which needs looking into.

That doesn't apply to afghans though. That's a south asuan inferiority complex, that's needs lookimg into...not afghans.

[asingh]

Where's is the OP? Hiding in a hole are we?

Taking tutelage from BK.

[Dynamo]

Taking tutelage from BK.

What?

[asingh]

What?

BK = Butler King.

[Dynamo]

BK = Butler King.

Lol

[Raikaswinþs]

And this thread is relevant to an European Cultural Community how?

[Dynamo]

And this thread is relevant to an European Cultural Community how?

Exactly it's not, blame the OP

[Raikaswinþs]

I just find silly that this thread is allowed to be on the Genetics/General div of the board when the OP was clairly aiming to stir controversy for the sake of controversy and have a personal release of his frustratios by bashing some random ethnicity that is not even European. If this was opened about an European ethnicity it should be on the Trollfest section, but as it stands, I do not know where it should be moved. Perhaps to Troll section until further evaluation?

[Dynamo]

I just find silly that this thread is allowed to be on the Genetics/General div of the board when the OP was clairly aiming to stir controversy for the sake of controversy and have a personal release of his frustratios by bashing some random ethnicity that is not even European. If this was opened about an European ethnicity it should be on the Trollfest section, but as it stands, I do not know where it should be moved. Perhaps to Troll section until further evaluation?

He's taken quotes out of context, genetic studies which don't even apply to us and is invalid plus clearly having an agenda. Defintlley troll section.

[Truthbetold]

A message to the OP: you talk about genetics? Here is a AFGHAN PASHTUN resukts: South asian? Gimme a break. The Pathans in the cluster which you have shown had South indian admixture more than 30%!!! Afghanistan is the homelabd of afghans, sI don't give ME that Pathan homeland bullcrap. Btw this guy was nowhere near the Indian cluster, he was much closer to the iranian, adgyei Georgian turkish cluster.


Paternal: J1
Maternal: M30D1

Ethnicity: Afghan Pashtun

34.19% Baloch
26.42% Caucasian
14.71% South Indian
12.85% Northeast Euro
3.15% Southwest Asian
2.72% Mediterranean
2.11% Siberian
1.15% Northeast Asian
1.09% Beringian
0.97% American
0.59% West African
0.02% Papuan
0.02% Southeast Asian
0% San
0% Pygmy
0% East African

K=15

29.80% Caucasian
12.92% Balkanic
11.25% South-Central-Asian
11.11% West Altaic
7.16% Balto-Slavic
6.36% East Mediterranean
5.12% Uralic Permic
4.23% East Altaic
4.15% Volga-Uralic
3.65% Celto-Germanic
3.07% Balto Finnic
1.07% Paleo-North-European
0.07% Balkanic-2
0.04% Iberian
0.00% West-Mediterranean

K=12

36.79% Caucasian
14.54% Volga-Uralic
11.87% South-Central Asian
9.72% Paleo-Mediterranean
8.21% East-European
5.43% Uralic-Permic
4.38% Asian
4.36% Celto-Germanic
3.22% Balto-Finnic
1.25% Paleo-North-Euroepan
0.21% Paleo-Balkanic
0.03% Iberian

You post a random example to represent a whole population of about 50 million Pashtuns? The same reasoning like: ''I saw a bird with gold stripes so all birdz must be striped with gold'' Anyway the sample you posted is 34.19% Baloch (the same as ANI aka Ancestral North Indian), which peaks in Baloch, and 14.71% South Indian, which itself is a combination of ANI and ASI (Ancestral South Indian). I'm sure he will cluster close to any Northwest South Asian population as well, such as the Punjabi Jatts. I sense alot of frustration reading your comments. No one said Afghans (nationality) are South Asians. Afghanistan is a South-Central Asian nation. The Pashtuns however, (ethnic group) who's majority live in Pakistan and the 2nd largest amount in Afghanistan, are genetically a South Asian population as I clearly demonstrated on the first page. All you're giving me as a response is PoV and merely personal, non scientific opinions. Not one paper, not one PCA plot, no nothing valuable reading was posted by you on behalf of the fact that you don't agree with the hard scientific facts posted on the first page. If the Pashtuns are not South Asian GENETICALLY (as in the fact that they clearly cluster with other South Asians), then so would also the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhis, Himachalis etc not be South Asian. Which would be an obvious fallacy.

[Truthbetold]

Well genius in what wat South asian? Now you know those were pakistani Pathans who God knows what their forefathers married, what now? Afghab Pashtuns are majority west asian, less South Asian thsn the ones you've hat wet dreams over. Burst your bubble?? Aww that's cute.

So basically you state that Afghan Pashtuns are significantly different from Pakistani Pashtuns? Well, I'd like to see the paper that shows that. Apart from perhaps a mere minor pull towards Central Asia due to geography, I don't expect anything to be remotely different from them as compared to Pakistani Pashtuns.

[Truthbetold]

Anyway I literally don't see what the point OP is trying to make here, he's essentially trying to say afghans are south asian. Go ask south asians what they think of us and they'll literally tell you they consider us the same as arabs and iranians i.e. completely foreign. Hell we're not even 'desi' by any measure. There's literally nothing wrong with having south asian genes (and even then it hardly has an effect on phenotype considering most of us look iranic and quite distinct from any population in india other than kashmiris and SOME punjabis) but what is wrong is to say we're south asian culturally or linguistically which simply isn't true other than perhaps the fact that we tend to like bollywood.

Read again. I said the Pashtun ethnic group are clearly South Asian genetically, as they are very very close to other northwest South Asian populations aka the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachalis,. etc. The plots and data shown on the first page confirm this as well. They're part of the South Asian genetic group for sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Pashtun culture however, is much closer to Central Asia than South Asia. The nation of Afghanistan (I never said a word about it), is a South-Central Asian nation.

[back_up]

Read again. I said the Pashtun ethnic group are clearly South Asian genetically, as they are very very close to other northwest South Asian populations aka the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachalis,. etc. The plots and data shown on the first page confirm this as well. They're part of the South Asian genetic group for sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Pashtun culture however, is much closer to Central Asia than South Asia. The nation of Afghanistan (I never said a word about it), is a South-Central Asian nation.

Most of Pakistani pashtuns barely pass in Pakistan punjab, so forget about any region of India except Kashmiri muslims in IoK. Indian punjabis are even more bihari type looking on average then Pakistani punjabis.

[Arhat]

Read again. I said the Pashtun ethnic group are clearly South Asian genetically, as they are very very close to other northwest South Asian populations aka the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachalis,. etc. The plots and data shown on the first page confirm this as well. They're part of the South Asian genetic group for sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Pashtun culture however, is much closer to Central Asia than South Asia. The nation of Afghanistan (I never said a word about it), is a South-Central Asian nation.

just stop trolling .Pashtuns have no south asian identity because they are and were always foreigners in south asia.Actually many pashtuns in non-tribal areas of pakistan are local pashtunized dardic people or have mixed with local indian populations so this samples are not very useful and say nothing about tribal pashtuns of pakistan and afghan pashtuns.They are genetically in no way south asians and they mostly carry the y-dna haplogroups r1a(50-60%), Q(10-20%),J,G and L.Only the y-dna haplogroup L has maybe a south asian origin but all other have either a central asian or west asian origin

[back_up]

So basically you state that Afghan Pashtuns are significantly different from Pakistani Pashtuns? Well, I'd like to see the paper that shows that. Apart from perhaps a mere minor pull towards Central Asia due to geography, I don't expect anything to be remotely different from them as compared to Pakistani Pashtuns.

70% of pashtuns live in Pakistan. Afghanistan is majority mongoloid nation. There will be obvious differences between both groups. But lots of similarities as well, especially in eastern Afghanistan pashtuns and Pakistani pashtuns.

[asingh]

Most of Pakistani pashtuns barely pass in Pakistan punjab, so forget about any region of India except Kashmiri muslims in IoK. Indian punjabis are even more bihari type looking on average then Pakistani punjabis.

:)

[Truthbetold]

Here another chart from a scientific paper published in 2013, confirming the story again as well. The Pakistani Pashtuns fall clear cut in the Indus Basin (South Asia) cluster, while the Afghan Pashtuns are extremely close to it. One sample lies deeper into the Central Asian cluster, most likely as a deviating example. However, even then, drawing a horizontal line on the axis it still makes them closer to the Indus Basin cluster, than the Caucasus or Middle East cluster, which is totally obivous as well looking at geography and history. Keep also in mind that the largest population of ethnic Pashtuns in the world live in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan.


http://i62.tinypic.com/e0qqtx.png

Analysis from the paper the graph is from:


(...) Pashtun are close to the Indo-Aryan cluster, and Hazara are, as expected, near to the Altaic cluster.

source: Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge. MC: Julie Di Cristofaro, Erwan Pennarun. Published October 18, 2013.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0076748

So we can make three hypothesises here based on some of the comments in this thread.

- Some Pashtun posters don't like the fact that they cluster with other Northwestern South Asians, despite the multiple charts, plots, PCA's, and papers posted.

- They don't agree with the hard scientific facts that are posted because they would rather see themselves cluster firmly with Central Asians, West Asians, you name it, for whatever reason.

- They want to present this as ''trolling'' by twisting my words to make it seem as if I said that the Pashtuns are a South Asian/''Desi'' people. (Which they are CLEARLY not). I only said they are genetically South Asian, as they cluster very closely/overlap with Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, etc (who are South Asians/Desi's), and all which the hard scientific material posted confirms. Overal the Pashtuns (taking genetics, culture, history etc into account) are a South-Central Asian people.

[Sky earth]

Karachi itself has the biggest urban Pashtun population in the world. Afghanistan is a Central Asian nation and the Mongoloid admixture of Afghan Tajiks is totally underrated. North Afghanistan is entirely Turko-Persian while South Afghanistan is more Pashto-Persian

[Arhat]

Here another chart from a scientific paper published in 2013, confirming the story again as well. The Pakistani Pashtuns fall clear cut in the Indus Basin (South Asia) cluster, while the Afghan Pashtuns are extremely close to it. One sample lies deeper into the Central Asian cluster, most likely as a deviating example. However, even then, drawing a horizontal line on the axis it still makes them closer to the Indus Basin cluster, than the Caucasus or Middle East cluster, which is totally obivous as well looking at geography and history. Keep also in mind that the largest population of ethnic Pashtuns in the world live in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan.

http://i62.tinypic.com/e0qqtx.png

Analysis from the paper the graph is from:



source: Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge. MC: Julie Di Cristofaro, Erwan Pennarun. Published October 18, 2013.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0076748


it doesnt matter were most pashtuns live today because they orginated in modern afghanistan. Also this study shows that pashtuns belong to the central asian cluster so i dont get your point here.Just explain me why the dominant y-dna haplogroups of modern pashtuns r1a(50-60%),Q(10-20%),J and G have all a non south asian origin

[Arhat]

Karachi itself has the biggest urban Pashtun population in the world. Afghanistan is a Central Asian nation and the Mongoloid admixture of Afghan Tajiks is totally underrated. North Afghanistan is entirely Turko-Persian while South Afghanistan is more Pashto-Persian

afghan tajiks look exact like pashtuns and only tajiks of northern afghanistan look often mongolid

[Dynamo]

You post a random example to represent a whole population of about 50 million Pashtuns? The same reasoning like: ''I saw a bird with gold stripes so all birdz must be striped with gold'' Anyway the sample you posted is 34.19% Baloch (the same as ANI aka Ancestral North Indian), which peaks in Baloch, and 14.71% South Indian, which itself is a combination of ANI and ASI (Ancestral South Indian). I'm sure he will cluster close to any Northwest South Asian population as well, such as the Punjabi Jatts. I sense alot of frustration reading your comments. No one said Afghans (nationality) are South Asians. Afghanistan is a South-Central Asian nation. The Pashtuns however, (ethnic group) who's majority live in Pakistan and the 2nd largest amount in Afghanistan, are genetically a South Asian population as I clearly demonstrated on the first page. All you're giving me as a response is PoV and merely personal, non scientific opinions. Not one paper, not one PCA plot, no nothing valuable reading was posted by you on behalf of the fact that you don't agree with the hard scientific facts posted on the first page. If the Pashtuns are not South Asian GENETICALLY (as in the fact that they clearly cluster with other South Asians), then so would also the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhis, Himachalis etc not be South Asian. Which would be an obvious fallacy.

I don't understand, you say south Asian, however that includes South Indians and peninsular Indians. Afghan Pashtuns do not cluster with South Asians, are you blind? The only group they cluster in that pcs plot are balochis and makranis, hardly South Asian. Plus that looks at how west or east shifted you are. You quote all these texts thinking your very knowledgable yet you know jack shit. Fst distances determine the distance between populations. As you can see from that link I posted of you bothered looking at it, afghan Pashtuns and Tajiks are very close to Iranians, Caucasians and Turks. Much closer to South Asians. That's FST distance! These PCA plots look at west East Eurasian shiftmebt. For instance, Uzbeks and Turkmens are pretty far away from afghan Pashtuns and Tajiks, however why did the part conclude we were close to other Central Asians? BECAUSE of FST DISTANCE. In addition, the gedrosia is a west Eurasian component, the reason why it's called ANE in some cases, is because the west Eurasian component found in South Asians come from the gedrosia. Please locate gedrosia for me. It's not in South Asia. When you say Pashtun that will refer to most Caucasian afghans in Afghanistan, and if you see, it's actually the other way round, northwest south Asians are west Eurasian shifted. We are far far away from the Indian cluster anyways.

[Sky earth]

afghan tajiks look exact like pashtuns and only tajiks of northern afghanistan look often mongolid

Many Afghan Tajiks look like Pashtuns but not all. Those with significant Mongoloid admixture don't look like Pashtuns. Tajiks from Kabul have the same amount of 15 % Mongoloid admixture on average like Tajikistan Tajiks.

[Dynamo]

Hahaha now you say represent 50 million Pashtuns? You ignorant fuck, the samples you showed us were all from the same tribe, same area and country....PAKISTAN. There's 3 other afghan Pashtuns as well, and they got very similar results to each other. Plus I'm talking to a Pashtun/ Tajik afghan, and his results are also similar except he's got a higher northern euro component. Is that coincidence that paki Pathans have similar resujts, while afghan Pashtuns have similar results to each other? I think not. Again, those PCA plots look at how much west Eurasian shifted you are. A half English half chinese in that PCA plot would be far easy from both groups, yet FST distances will show how close you are to the groups.

[Arhat]

Many Afghan Tajiks look like Pashtuns but not all. Those with significant Mongoloid admixture don't look like Pashtuns. Tajiks from Kabul have the same amount of 15 % Mongoloid admixture on average like Tajikistan Tajiks.

most tajiks in kabul look very close to pashtuns and have often are of pashtun origin.So it is unlikely that they have the same amount of east asian admixture like tajiks of tajikistan.Tajiks of kabul look very different from tajikistani tajiks .You are only right about tajiks in the north who are close to tajikistani tajiks but this tajiks look sometimes really white also.

[Dynamo]

Did you see the afghan Pashtuns k15 and k12? Lol he had more Volga Uralic than South Asian. His highest percentage was Caucasian.

[Dynamo]

I'll post the afghan Pashtun and Tajiks eurogenes K36 results in a bit. I'll also post the paki Pathans Harappa world admixture. On average they had more than 30% South Indian. Average afghsn Pashtun had only 14%.

[Sky earth]

most tajiks in kabul look very close to pashtuns and have often are of pashtun origin.So it is unlikely that they have the same amount of east asian admixture like tajiks of tajikistan.Tajiks of kabul look very different from tajikistani tajiks .You are only right about tajiks in the north who are close to tajikistani tajiks but this tajiks look sometimes really white also.

I cant'f find the study but samples of Tajiks from Kabul showed 15 % Mongoloid admixture on average and that's not really unsignificant. Pashtuns themselves are descendants of tribes from different origins. There was a significant Pashtunization period in Afghanistan which began with the Hotaki dynasty and reached its peak during the Durrani empire.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunization

[Dynamo]

I cant'f find the study but samples of Tajiks from Kabul showed 15 % Mongoloid admixture on average and that's not really unsignificant. Pashtuns themselves are descendants of tribes from different origins. There was a significant Pashtunization period in Afghanistan which began with the Hotaki dynasty and reached its peak with the Durrani empire.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunization

I've got the results Dw I'll post it

[Dynamo]

Here are the eurogenes k36 for afghan pashtuns, for comparison I've added thr punjabi jatt. Notice how much South asuan jatts have compared to thr afghans. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?107779-Eurogenes-K36-for-Afghan-Pashtuns

[Dynamo]

Based on this data, this makes:

Afghan pashtun 1- ~74% West Asian, 9.90% South Asian, ~16% European
Afghan pashtun 2- ~70% West Asian, 11.76 South Asian, ~20% European
Afghan pashtun 3- ~74% West Asian, 13.65% South Asian, ~11% European

Punjabi- ~50% West Asian, 40% South Asian, ~10& European

[Dynamo]

In addition to all this, the afghan who is half tajik and pashtun like me, Ia around 85% western eurasian, much more west shifted than any pakistani Pathan in that pca plot

[jatt]

That doesn't apply to afghans though. That's a south asuan inferiority complex, that's needs lookimg into...not afghans.
South Asian Muslim inferiority complex not othrs Tell me didn't you pashtoons served Arab Osama the terrorist as ur state guest n got your country distroyed Or Malala who is pashtoon herself donating money for Palestinians when they r 20 times richer than afghans and 6 times Pakistanis. Now that is called inferiority complex.

[jatt]

L
In addition to all this, the afghan who is half tajik and pashtun like me, Ia around 85% western eurasian, much more west shifted than any pakistani Pathan in that pca plot
Yep central Asian pheno is visible in you.

[Dynamo]

L
Yep central Asian pheno is visible in you.

You haven't seen me you fucking ogre, people guessed me as Balkan if you really wanna know. I haven't had myself tested so you don't make sense.

[Dynamo]

South Asian Muslim inferiority complex not othrs Tell me didn't you pashtoons served Arab Osama the terrorist as ur state guest n got your country distroyed Or Malala who is pashtoon herself donating money for Palestinians when they r 20 times richer than afghans and 6 times Pakistanis. Now that is called inferiority complex.

Oh yeah sure, but what about Bollywood dardar ji? Bleachening of your skin? What about your whole fucking system? The fact that you look down on anyone who is poorer and darker than you? You fucking babuji brown piece of fuck, it's called helping out for our brothers. Shows the fact that we are poor ourselves yet always offer to help our brothers in need no matter what. Afghans have the biggest hearts I'll tell you. What do you fucking Sikhs have? Bet you got a bush underneath your armpit lol. Stinks? Eww

[Dynamo]

Another afghan Pashtun from Kandahar is 88% Western Eurasian. I'll post his results when I can .

[jatt]

You haven't seen me you fucking ogre, people guessed me as Balkan if you really wanna know. I haven't had myself tested so you don't make sense. So is that not you In pic. So you now not wanna be central Asian. Ok you look Balkan

[Highlands]

Pakistani pashtuns score almost 2x more South Asian component. I think Afghan Pashtuns score 25 on Eurogenes K13 and Pakistani Pashtuns score 40, closer to North Indians.

@sorry I was meant to quote truthbetold.

[Dynamo]

Pakistani pashtuns score almost 2x more South Asian component. I think Afghan Pashtuns score 25 on Eurogenes K13 and Pakistani Pashtuns score 40, closer to North Indians.

@sorry I was meant to quote truthbetold.

Have you checked the eurogenes k36 scores? I'll post the eurogenes k36 scores for the paki Pathans as we'll. truth is, most of the Pathans in that sample must've had recent admixture from Pakistan itself. Afghan Pashtuns and Tajiks are much less south Asian shifted

[jatt]

Oh yeah sure, but what about Bollywood dardar ji? Bleachening of your skin? What about your whole fucking system? The fact that you look down on anyone who is poorer and darker than you? You fucking babuji brown piece of fuck, it's called helping out for our brothers. Shows the fact that we are poor ourselves yet always offer to help our brothers in need no matter what. Afghans have the biggest hearts I'll tell you. What do you fucking Sikhs have? Bet you got a bush underneath your armpit lol. Stinks? Eww Hey listen you fucking
ChootiA upgAndu who the fuck you think you are. White wannabe. I will come out of computer and beat you up with my shoes. Be in your limits when posting about my people don't make up lies and spread falsehood you wanna be whoever matter not to me but never ever talk shit about my people ever

[wvwvw]

Oh yeah sure, but what about Bollywood dardar ji? Bleachening of your skin? What about your whole fucking system? The fact that you look down on anyone who is poorer and darker than you? You fucking babuji brown piece of fuck, it's called helping out for our brothers. Shows the fact that we are poor ourselves yet always offer to help our brothers in need no matter what. Afghans have the biggest hearts I'll tell you. What do you fucking Sikhs have? Bet you got a bush underneath your armpit lol. Stinks? Eww

The reason why dirt poor Afganis support terrorism is because they are religious fanatics not because they have a big heart. Sheikhs are superior in everyway to Afganis.

[Dynamo]

Hey listen you fucking
ChootiA upgAndu who the fuck you think you are. White wannabe. I will come out of computer and beat you up with my shoes. Be in your limits when posting about my people don't make up lies and spread falsehood you wanna be whoever matter not to me but never ever talk shit about my people ever

Looooooool man said slipper loooooool awwww that's cute

[Dynamo]

The reason why dirt poor Afganis support terrorism is because they are religious fanatics not because they have a big heart. Sheikhs are superior in everyway to Afganis.

Sheikhs? You fucking kidding me? Those bastards are spraying money on women jewellery like the way someone shits when they have diorreah. How is supporting Palestine supporting terrorism? How fucking dare you . Those fuckjnh Jews were killing innocent civilians yet Palestinians are terrorist? Fuck you

[Highlands]

Hey listen you fucking
ChootiA upgAndu who the fuck you think you are. White wannabe. I will come out of computer and beat you up with my shoes. Be in your limits when posting about my people don't make up lies and spread falsehood you wanna be whoever matter not to me but never ever talk shit about my people ever

:rotfl:

[Arhat]

Hey listen you fucking
ChootiA upgAndu who the fuck you think you are. White wannabe. I will come out of computer and beat you up with my shoes. Be in your limits when posting about my people don't make up lies and spread falsehood you wanna be whoever matter not to me but never ever talk shit about my people ever

i have never encountered an afghan who wants to be white like many indians. Even the minority of afghans who look white and have light eyes/hair dont think they are the same like white people of the west unlike some indians who just because they have light brown skin think they are already europeans. Afghans are never south asians genetically and the west asian components are dominating but the ancestors of afghans (saka,kushan,bactrians,kamboja..) have mixed with south asians or south asian admixed people . But this happened mostly on the maternal side and indoeuropean and west asian y-dna haplogroups are very widespread among afghans and dominate them

[Dynamo]

i have never encountered an afghan who wants to be white like many indians. Even the minority of afghans who look white and have light eyes/hair dont think they are the same like white people of the west unlike some indians who just because they have light brown skin think they are already europeans. Afghans are never south asians genetically and the west asian components are dominating but the ancestors of afghans (saka,kushan,bactrians,kamboja..) have mixed with south asians or south asian admixed people . But this happened mostly on the maternal side and indoeuropean and west asian y-dna haplogroups are very widespread among afghans and dominate them

Our ancestors most likley went tk South Asia and settled there etc that's why northwest South Asians have west asian components. It also happened the other way round but much much less( hence why probably we show little South asian influence albeit present )

[Arhat]

Our ancestors most likley went tk South Asia and settled there etc that's why northwest South Asians have west asian components. It also happened the other way round but much much less( hence why probably we show little South asian influence albeit present )

the old iranic and indo-aryan tribes orginated somewhere in the eurasian steppe and had high percentages of caucasian and northern european dna but they migrated and settled in central asia,south asia and also west asia. In central asia they encountered and conquered the BMAC civilization which was connected to other sedentary cultures in modern iran and had a high developed urban civilization.The iranic and indo-aryan tribes mixed with the population of the BMAC culture , which was west asian predominately , and their religions were also influenced by this.In afghanistan they encountered several different local cultures which were mostly also of west asian origin but influenced by people from the indus basin but even this pre-indoeuropean were mostly west asians.The ancestors of afghans subjugated this people and spread their genes and languages so that modern afghans speak indoeuropean languages and are predominately the descendants of this indoeuropean iranic tribes
But later the indo-aryan tribes moved to india ( but some like pashai and kalash stayed in afghanistan/pakistan and preserved their original look) and mixed much with pre-indoeuropean south asians but iranic people like pashtuns mixed only rarely with south asians and lived for the most time in central asia and only recently they also populate south asia and took many indian women (raids). Pashtuns are still very close to pamiri people of tajikistan and of course also to tajiks of afghanistan.Pashtuns of modern pakistan have mostly so much south asian components because of recent admixture and pashtuns of afghanistan have low south asian components which are also very different from other south asian components in india

[Truthbetold]

Hahaha now you say represent 50 million Pashtuns? You ignorant fuck, the samples you showed us were all from the same tribe, same area and country....PAKISTAN. There's 3 other afghan Pashtuns as well, and they got very similar results to each other. Plus I'm talking to a Pashtun/ Tajik afghan, and his results are also similar except he's got a higher northern euro component. Is that coincidence that paki Pathans have similar resujts, while afghan Pashtuns have similar results to each other? I think not. Again, those PCA plots look at how much west Eurasian shifted you are. A half English half chinese in that PCA plot would be far easy from both groups, yet FST distances will show how close you are to the groups.

What in F's name are you talking about? I posted both data about Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns both on page 1 and page 13. Are you blind or what? Page 13 shows a plot which shows both Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns. Page one shows both quotes from the paper about Afghanistans ethnic groups, as well as plots/PCA's about Pakistani Pashtuns.

The one from page 13 once again:

http://i62.tinypic.com/e0qqtx.png

Analysis from the paper the graph is from:


(...) Pashtun are close to the Indo-Aryan cluster, and Hazara are, as expected, near to the Altaic cluster.

As we can see, in Dynamo's and Vir9's PAINS to disassociate the Pashtun ethnic group from the other (Northwestern) South Asians, such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, etc, user Dynamo has resorted to the usage of ad-hominem insults and trolling to virtually everyone here who dares speaking about the Pashtuns, disregarding obvious complete scientific papers and facts posted, while ''Vir9'' tries to fraud every plot/graph/paper posted, trying to present it as '''trolling'' and frauding results as shown on the graphs (such as saying about the graph above that the Pashtuns all fall in the Central Asian cluster). Dynamo also thinks that by posting individually grabbed results without any source given he can refute any of the complete sources/papers/PCA's and plots I have given.

These two users of presumably Pashtun origin have OBVIOUS superiority feelings towards other geneticallly Northwestern South Asian peoples such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachali's, etc. They hate the fact that Pashtuns cluster with these people and are in grief due to this. They don't agree with the hard scientific facts and papers that are posted because they would rather see themselves cluster firmly with Central Asians, West Asians, you name it, for whatever dumb reason. This is clearly seen by reading their comments.

Either post scientific papers if you think this is all not true. If you can't contribute anything remotely useful please keep out. And yes, that includes posting unsourced random results of persons while I have posted whole papers on both Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistani Pashtuns.

I never thought being South Asian geneticaly would be such an extreme insult towards some people.

User ''Dynamo'' once again showed how incredibly hard he finds it and how extremely butthurt he is by PM'ing me this comment:



Dynamo - Yesterday 02:36 PM View Conversation Report
Why are you hiding you motherfucker Pussy bumberclart, your probably some butthurt brown paki prongo or indian. Fucking pussyhole don't ever make useless threads you butthurt monkey or I'll get you banned. Cunt.

Obvious inferiority complexion detected.

Conclusion: The majority of Pashtuns live in Pakistan. 70% of the total Pashtun population. As shown in EVERY paper, graph, and PCA I posted the Pakistani Pashtuns CLEARLY cluster with other Northwestern South Asian and clear cut fall in the South Asian cluster. The Afghan Pashtuns, as seen in the graph above are on the edge of the South Asian/Central Asian cluster. They are extremely close to the South Asian cluster. Muuuuuch closer to the Middle East/Caucasus cluster as eveyone can see. The paper says as well itself in words that they are close to Indo-Aryan populations. It all makes sense considering the geography and history of the Pashtun people.

The plots, scientific papers, and graphs on the first page on this thread confirm this again as well, with the Pakistani Pashtuns first and foremost being closest to other Northwest South Asian populations, including the Sindhi's. Pashtuns are a South Asian population genetically, clustering closely with Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, High Caste Himachali's, Baloch, etc. I showed it here with the results, papers, plots, and PCA's posted. No individual result, no trolling, no frauding can change this.

Deal with this fact Dynamo and Vir9. The Pashtuns are first and foremost Northwestern South Asian genetically as is shown in this thread. Otherwise, Pakistani Pashtuns are not Pashtuns, or otherwise the Kashmiris, Punjabi Jatts, Sindhi's, high caste Himachali's (aka the closest genetic brethren to the Pashtuns), etc are not actually South Asians ;) I know you can't refute this. Pashtuns are not remotely close to Middle Eastern/West Asian/Caucasus peoples. By far. Give up.
As if there's anything bad about clustering with other (Northwestern) South Asians as a population.

[Truthbetold]

Afghan cricket team, mostly Pashtuns, few Tajiks/Hazaras

http://i59.tinypic.com/23kr802.jpg

Pakistani cricket team, mixed Pashtun/Punjabi/other Pakistani ethnic groups

http://i62.tinypic.com/2vm7jhd.jpg

[Dynamo]

the old iranic and indo-aryan tribes orginated somewhere in the eurasian steppe and had high percentages of caucasian and northern european dna but they migrated and settled in central asia,south asia and also west asia. In central asia they encountered and conquered the BMAC civilization which was connected to other sedentary cultures in modern iran and had a high developed urban civilization.The iranic and indo-aryan tribes mixed with the population of the BMAC culture , which was west asian predominately , and their religions were also influenced by this.In afghanistan they encountered several different local cultures which were mostly also of west asian origin but influenced by people from the indus basin but even this pre-indoeuropean were mostly west asians.The ancestors of afghans subjugated this people and spread their genes and languages so that modern afghans speak indoeuropean languages and are predominately the descendants of this indoeuropean iranic tribes
But later the indo-aryan tribes moved to india ( but some like pashai and kalash stayed in afghanistan/pakistan and preserved their original look) and mixed much with pre-indoeuropean south asians but iranic people like pashtuns mixed only rarely with south asians and lived for the most time in central asia and only recently they also populate south asia and took many indian women (raids). Pashtuns are still very close to pamiri people of tajikistan and of course also to tajiks of afghanistan.Pashtuns of modern pakistan have mostly so much south asian components because of recent admixture and pashtuns of afghanistan have low south asian components which are also very different from other south asian components in india
Spot on, Pashtuns are extremely close to the pamirs as we'll yaghnobis. The FST distance was something like 0.04

[Dynamo]

What in F's name are you talking about? I posted both data about Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns both on page 1 and page 13. Are you blind or what? Page 13 shows a plot which shows both Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns. Page one shows both quotes from the paper about Afghanistans ethnic groups, as well as plots/PCA's about Pakistani Pashtuns.

The one from page 13 once again:

http://i62.tinypic.com/e0qqtx.png

Analysis from the paper the graph is from:



As we can see, in Dynamo's and Vir9's PAINS to disassociate the Pashtun ethnic group from the other (Northwestern) South Asians, such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, etc, user Dynamo has resorted to the usage of ad-hominem insults and trolling to virtually everyone here who dares speaking about the Pashtuns, disregarding obvious complete scientific papers and facts posted, while ''Vir9'' tries to fraud every plot/graph/paper posted, trying to present it as '''trolling'' and frauding results as shown on the graphs (such as saying about the graph above that the Pashtuns all fall in the Central Asian cluster). Dynamo also thinks that by posting individually grabbed results without any source given he can refute any of the complete sources/papers/PCA's and plots I have given.

These two users of presumably Pashtun origin have OBVIOUS superiority feelings towards other geneticallly Northwestern South Asian peoples such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachali's, etc. They hate the fact that Pashtuns cluster with these people and are in grief due to this. They don't agree with the hard scientific facts and papers that are posted because they would rather see themselves cluster firmly with Central Asians, West Asians, you name it, for whatever dumb reason. This is clearly seen by reading their comments.

Either post scientific papers if you think this is all not true. If you can't contribute anything remotely useful please keep out. And yes, that includes posting unsourced random results of persons while I have posted whole papers on both Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistani Pashtuns.

I never thought being South Asian geneticaly would be such an extreme insult towards some people.

User ''Dynamo'' once again showed how incredibly hard he finds it and how extremely butthurt he is by PM'ing me this comment:



Obvious inferiority complexion detected.

Conclusion: The majority of Pashtuns live in Pakistan. 70% of the total Pashtun population. As shown in EVERY paper, graph, and PCA I posted the Pakistani Pashtuns CLEARLY cluster with other Northwestern South Asian and clear cut fall in the South Asian cluster. The Afghan Pashtuns, as seen in the graph above are on the edge of the South Asian/Central Asian cluster. They are extremely close to the South Asian cluster. Muuuuuch closer to the Middle East/Caucasus cluster as eveyone can see. The paper says as well itself in words that they are close to Indo-Aryan populations. It all makes sense considering the geography and history of the Pashtun people.

The plots, scientific papers, and graphs on the first page on this thread confirm this again as well, with the Pakistani Pashtuns first and foremost being closest to other Northwest South Asian populations, including the Sindhi's. Pashtuns are a South Asian population genetically, clustering closely with Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, High Caste Himachali's, Baloch, etc. I showed it here with the results, papers, plots, and PCA's posted. No individual result, no trolling, no frauding can change this.

Deal with this fact Dynamo and Vir9. The Pashtuns are first and foremost Northwestern South Asian genetically as is shown in this thread. Otherwise, Pakistani Pashtuns are not Pashtuns, or otherwise the Kashmiris, Punjabi Jatts, Sindhi's, high caste Himachali's (aka the closest genetic brethren to the Pashtuns), etc are not actually South Asians ;) I know you can't refute this. Pashtuns are not remotely close to Middle Eastern/West Asian/Caucasus peoples. By far. Give up.
As if there's anything bad about clustering with other (Northwestern) South Asians as a population.

Do I have to say this again and again? The fucking PCA plots show how much west or east shifted. The Pathans from Pakistan in that PCA plot are like 80% west Eurasian. The afghan samples ranged from 85-89%. ( I'm talking about individual samples). Iranians are like 91% west Eurasian. Did yiu see the eurogenes k36? I give evidence yet you still show me the same graphs and quotes. I'll show my friends oracle results. You'll be suprised.

[Dynamo]

Afghan cricket team, mostly Pashtuns, few Tajiks/Hazaras

http://i59.tinypic.com/23kr802.jpg

Pakistani cricket team, mixed Pashtun/Punjabi/other Pakistani ethnic groups

http://i62.tinypic.com/2vm7jhd.jpg

So I gave you literally 20 links to afghan people in crowds yet you expect to convince people over this? Get a life ffs.

[Dynamo]

It's funny how when people want to convince people we are South Asian, they always use those cricket photos as an example loool. I showed him hubdreds of afghans but no. Still ignorant

[Arhat]

What in F's name are you talking about? I posted both data about Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns both on page 1 and page 13. Are you blind or what? Page 13 shows a plot which shows both Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns. Page one shows both quotes from the paper about Afghanistans ethnic groups, as well as plots/PCA's about Pakistani Pashtuns.

The one from page 13 once again:

http://i62.tinypic.com/e0qqtx.png

Analysis from the paper the graph is from:



As we can see, in Dynamo's and Vir9's PAINS to disassociate the Pashtun ethnic group from the other (Northwestern) South Asians, such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, etc, user Dynamo has resorted to the usage of ad-hominem insults and trolling to virtually everyone here who dares speaking about the Pashtuns, disregarding obvious complete scientific papers and facts posted, while ''Vir9'' tries to fraud every plot/graph/paper posted, trying to present it as '''trolling'' and frauding results as shown on the graphs (such as saying about the graph above that the Pashtuns all fall in the Central Asian cluster). Dynamo also thinks that by posting individually grabbed results without any source given he can refute any of the complete sources/papers/PCA's and plots I have given.

These two users of presumably Pashtun origin have OBVIOUS superiority feelings towards other geneticallly Northwestern South Asian peoples such as the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, Himachali's, etc. They hate the fact that Pashtuns cluster with these people and are in grief due to this. They don't agree with the hard scientific facts and papers that are posted because they would rather see themselves cluster firmly with Central Asians, West Asians, you name it, for whatever dumb reason. This is clearly seen by reading their comments.

Either post scientific papers if you think this is all not true. If you can't contribute anything remotely useful please keep out. And yes, that includes posting unsourced random results of persons while I have posted whole papers on both Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistani Pashtuns.

I never thought being South Asian geneticaly would be such an extreme insult towards some people.

User ''Dynamo'' once again showed how incredibly hard he finds it and how extremely butthurt he is by PM'ing me this comment:



Obvious inferiority complexion detected.

Conclusion: The majority of Pashtuns live in Pakistan. 70% of the total Pashtun population. As shown in EVERY paper, graph, and PCA I posted the Pakistani Pashtuns CLEARLY cluster with other Northwestern South Asian and clear cut fall in the South Asian cluster. The Afghan Pashtuns, as seen in the graph above are on the edge of the South Asian/Central Asian cluster. They are extremely close to the South Asian cluster. Muuuuuch closer to the Middle East/Caucasus cluster as eveyone can see. The paper says as well itself in words that they are close to Indo-Aryan populations. It all makes sense considering the geography and history of the Pashtun people.

The plots, scientific papers, and graphs on the first page on this thread confirm this again as well, with the Pakistani Pashtuns first and foremost being closest to other Northwest South Asian populations, including the Sindhi's. Pashtuns are a South Asian population genetically, clustering closely with Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, High Caste Himachali's, Baloch, etc. I showed it here with the results, papers, plots, and PCA's posted. No individual result, no trolling, no frauding can change this.

Deal with this fact Dynamo and Vir9. The Pashtuns are first and foremost Northwestern South Asian genetically as is shown in this thread. Otherwise, Pakistani Pashtuns are not Pashtuns, or otherwise the Kashmiris, Punjabi Jatts, Sindhi's, high caste Himachali's (aka the closest genetic brethren to the Pashtuns), etc are not actually South Asians ;) I know you can't refute this. Pashtuns are not remotely close to Middle Eastern/West Asian/Caucasus peoples. By far. Give up.
As if there's anything bad about clustering with other (Northwestern) South Asians as a population.

you are a troll and we should ignore people like you. Either you have never seen a pashtun in your whole life or you have some kind of personal hate for pashtuns.Even italians and levantine arabs look closer to us than south asians. Dynamo already posted several afghan samples and some of them even had more european dna than south asian.So explain that? and you still didnt answered my question why pashtuns have predominately west asian or central asian y-dna haplogroups like R1a,Q,G,J) ???

[Dynamo]

Here is my friends dodecad world 9 results

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan (HGDP) 10.6
2 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 12.3
3 Burusho (HGDP) 13.9
4 Balochi (HGDP) 16.28
5 Brahui (HGDP) 17.39
6 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 17.71
7 Sindhi (HGDP) 17.93
8 Makrani 18.39
9 Kalash 19.27
10 Lezgins (Behar) 21.32
11 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 21.83
12 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 21.99
13 North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) 22.53
14 Balkars (Yunusbayev) 22.75
15 Adygei (HGDP) 22.76
16 Iranian (Dodecad) 23.31
17 Bnei_Menashe_Jews 23.98
18 Iranians (Behar) 26.13
19 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 27.08
20 Kurd (Dodecad) 27.17

The afghans closet populations according to fst distances are the yaghnobi tajiks and pamiri tajiks( they maintained their pure form). So calling us South asian genetically is fucking absurd. If your not blind please open your fucking eyes mate, how can we be genetically nearly identical to the purest Central asians yet be South asian?

[Dynamo]

Lol in your face mate, we are not even REMOTLEY related to west asians? Haha is that why lezgin, Chechens,balkans, iranians , Kurds and Ossetians come up on my friends dodecades resukts? Nice one mate, made yourself look like a fool.

Edit post: not to mention kumyks, adgyei and nogais

[Dynamo]

you are a troll and we should ignore people like you. Either you have never seen a pashtun in your whole life or you have some kind of personal hate for pashtuns.Even italians and levantine arabs look closer to us than south asians. Dynamo already posted several afghan samples and some of them even had more european dna than south asian.So explain that? and you still didnt answered my question why pashtuns have predominately west asian or central asian y-dna haplogroups like R1a,Q,G,J) ???

He probably poured out his heart out to an afghan women, shame she spat on it and stuck it up your arsehole and wrapped you around a bubble wrap waiting to be shipped back to azerbaijan

[Arhat]

Here is my friends dodecad world 9 results

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan (HGDP) 10.6
2 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 12.3
3 Burusho (HGDP) 13.9
4 Balochi (HGDP) 16.28
5 Brahui (HGDP) 17.39
6 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 17.71
7 Sindhi (HGDP) 17.93
8 Makrani 18.39
9 Kalash 19.27
10 Lezgins (Behar) 21.32
11 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 21.83
12 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 21.99
13 North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) 22.53
14 Balkars (Yunusbayev) 22.75
15 Adygei (HGDP) 22.76
16 Iranian (Dodecad) 23.31
17 Bnei_Menashe_Jews 23.98
18 Iranians (Behar) 26.13
19 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 27.08
20 Kurd (Dodecad) 27.17

The afghans closet populations according to fst distances are the yaghnobi tajiks and pamiri tajiks( they maintained their pure form). So calling us South asian genetically is fucking absurd. If your not blind please open your fucking eyes mate, how can we be genetically nearly identical to the purest Central asians yet be South asian?

thank for this list and i often regisered that northern caucasians (chechens,ossetians,..) can look quite similar to us and we to them.But pashtuns are closest to other central asian people who were genetically not so much influenced by turks and mongols.But we are close to turkemens because most of them are of iranic origin but were turkisized later

[Dynamo]

you are a troll and we should ignore people like you. Either you have never seen a pashtun in your whole life or you have some kind of personal hate for pashtuns.Even italians and levantine arabs look closer to us than south asians. Dynamo already posted several afghan samples and some of them even had more european dna than south asian.So explain that? and you still didnt answered my question why pashtuns have predominately west asian or central asian y-dna haplogroups like R1a,Q,G,J) ???

Mtdna too. Here's my friend maternal lineage. http://s14.postimg.org/63nf91agh/Screen_Shot_2014_12_05_at_11_46_53_AM.png

R0a likely originated in the Near East, splitting off from the lineages that would eventually form the H and V haplogroups. R0a arose during the end of the height of the Ice Age, when most of the northern hemisphere was covered in ice. While H and V spread across Europe, R0a stayed primarily in the Near East. Today it can be found at highest frequencies in the Arabian peninsula and some isolated populations in Pakistan, however across the entire region and in northeastern Africa one in ten individuals are R0a. In Europe, R0a is rare outside of certain groups such as Ashkenazi Jews with recent historical ties to the Near East.

[Dynamo]

thank for this list and i often regisered that northern caucasians (chechens,ossetians,..) can look quite similar to us and we to them.But pashtuns are closest to other central asian people who were genetically not so much influenced by turks and mongols.But we are close to turkemens because most of them are of iranic origin but were turkisized later

Being called Central Asian is absolute no problem for me, because yes, we are gebetically very close to them, but South Asians are not, the South. Asian influence is ancient anyways. Turkmens are mostly Western eurasiab but east eurasian shifted. Like I said, truthbetold is posting the same PCA plot again and again, what he doesn't get in that little pea brain of his, is that determines how west eyrasian or East eurasian yiur shifted. Lebanese Muslims turks and iranians are all around 91-94% western eurasian hence they ckuster closely because they have very little eastern eurasian influence, unlike pashtuns and tajiks who have some East Eurasian influence, thus why we are in the 85-88 % range. Plus, samples from southwest and west afghanistan haven't even been done, they might be on the same level as iranians, East eurasuan could be minor influence in them.

[Arhat]

Mtdna too. Here's my friend maternal lineage. http://s14.postimg.org/63nf91agh/Screen_Shot_2014_12_05_at_11_46_53_AM.png

R0a likely originated in the Near East, splitting off from the lineages that would eventually form the H and V haplogroups. R0a arose during the end of the height of the Ice Age, when most of the northern hemisphere was covered in ice. While H and V spread across Europe, R0a stayed primarily in the Near East. Today it can be found at highest frequencies in the Arabian peninsula and some isolated populations in Pakistan, however across the entire region and in northeastern Africa one in ten individuals are R0a. In Europe, R0a is rare outside of certain groups such as Ashkenazi Jews with recent historical ties to the Near East.

thank you for the information, i have not so much knowledge about mtdna and it is often neglected in genetic studies.

[Dynamo]

Jatt is my new favourite poster.

He fucking AMOGs the incels in this thread so hard that scores of untouchables die with each of his posts.

The hero, the DOM that India deserves. I hereby declare you Indo-Borreby. You can put that on your taxonomy.

Indo borreby :rotfl:

[jatt]

Indo borreby :rotfl: Now since you have settled down on being central Asian I would advise u not to laugh too much while driving or u may not see nothing with those Tiny central asan eyes closed and get involved in accident.

[jatt]

Jatt is my new favourite poster.

He fucking AMOGs the incels in this thread so hard that scores of untouchables die with each of his posts.

The hero, the DOM that India deserves. I hereby declare you Indo-Borreby. You can put that on your taxonomy. thx bro. I don't usually brag about my lineage and stuff but just to give u a perspective we jatts are warrior landlords of South Asia. British called us martial race. In anciet times Alexander the Great sent a letter to his mom telling here everyone is an Alexander. Although he brought to knees the Persians and middle easterners he made a u turn here. He was later kills by Malhi clan of jatts. We have fought many wars with afghans and the northern Pakistan is in Pakistan n not in Afghanistan because of us. That being said other than few deluded afghans we have mutual respect for each other and r happy go marrie people.

[Dynamo]

thx bro. I don't usually brag about my lineage and stuff but just to give u a perspective we jatts are warrior landlords of South Asia. British called us martial race. In anciet times Alexander the Great sent a letter to his mom telling here everyone is an Alexander. Although he brought to knees the Persians and middle easterners he made a u turn here. He was later kills by Malhi clan of jatts. We have fought many wars with afghans and the northern Pakistan is in Pakistan n not in Afghanistan because of us. That being said other than few deluded afghans we have mutual respect for each other and r happy go marrie people.

Haha sent a letter to his mom? Looooool. It's the Bactrian people he called Alexander not you jatts. He formed the Greco Bactrian empire which lasted for hundreds of years. His first wife Roxanne was a Bactrian princess, don't see any jatts over here, nope. Jog on mate. Your so ugly.

Btw he was taking the piss outta you looool, you really are deluded

[Dynamo]

Now since you have settled down on being central Asian I would advise u not to laugh too much while driving or u may not see nothing with those Tiny central asan eyes closed and get involved in accident.

Funny because the pure central asians, yagghnobis and pamiris are fully caucasoid, the mongoloid influence Is in uzbeks

[Dynamo]

No, Jatt really is my new favourite poster. Alpha among south asians. AMOGs the shit out of the ethnic subforum.

.He's ugky tho

[jatt]

Funny because the pure central asians, yagghnobis and pamiris are fully caucasoid, the mongoloid influence Is in uzbeks Uzbeks hazara and many Tajiks of Afghanistan are half mongoloid anyway. Even majority of afghans have last name khan which come from mongolia

[Dynamo]

Uzbeks hazara and many Tajiks of Afghanistan are half mongoloid anyway. Even majority of afghans have last name khan which come from mongolia

That's how I you know bollocks, the last name khan is used by pathans, punjabis and indians not afghans. The term khan is actually Turkic not mongoloid you waste of embryo

[jatt]

.He's ugky tho


R u gay or what. No I m not interested in doing u in ass. Doesn't matter if I look ugly to u. Ladies admire me n that's what matter not soMe Mongol shit on Internet. N by the way I have super hot girl n am not sexually frustrated like u

[Arhat]

Haha sent a letter to his mom? Looooool. It's the Bactrian people he called Alexander not you jatts. He formed the Greco Bactrian empire which lasted for hundreds of years. His first wife Roxanne was a Bactrian princess, don't see any jatts over here, nope. Jog on mate. Your so ugly.

Btw he was taking the piss outta you looool, you really are deluded

jatts are not part of the indian caste system so they are just shudras/dalits for orthodox hindus.Yes they were good warriors but only after the 17th century and before this period they were nothing special.I hope he is not one of this deluded jatts who think they are descendants of scythians when jatts look just like other indians of punjab.Jatt really reminds me on a not less annoying fat,ugly and small persian guy at school who thought he is the purest descendant of aryans and annoyed anyone with his "superiority complex" but looked like an egyptian.We had much fun with him,especially when we beaten him up

[jatt]

That's how I you know bollocks, the last name khan is used by pathans, punjabis and indians not afghans. The term khan is actually Turkic not mongoloid you waste of embryo


Google urself where khan comes frm. Chengiz khan daddy of all khans

[Dynamo]

R u gay or what. No I m not interested in doing u in ass. Doesn't matter if I look ugly to u. Ladies admire me n that's what matter not soMe Mongol shit on Internet. N by the way I have super hot girl n am not sexually frustrated like u
Says the one who jacks off to indian porno. I guess it was Me that bought sexual references into this thread. Looooool super hot girlfriend? Hey come on we know Mrs Singh is a bit chubby but domt take the mickey out of her. How am I gay? I'm just stating facts Bhai, not my fault your South indian genes has dominated your phenotype. Hey look on the bright side, you can be a Tamil model because of yiur brown skin, not black.

[Dynamo]

jatts are not part of the indian caste system so they are just shudras/dalits for orthodox hindus.Yes they were good warriors but only after the 17th century and before this period they were nothing special.I hope he is not one of this deluded jatts who think they are descendants of scythians when jatts look just like other indians of punjab.Jatt really reminds me on a not less annoying fat,ugly and small persian guy at school who thought he is the purest descendant of aryans and annoyed anyone with his "superiority complex" but looked like an egyptian.We had much fun with him,especially when we beaten him up


Hahahahahaha I guess he is deluded, probably having wet dreams over how Alexander analled their ancestors loool. Truth is. I have yet to see a light jatt or Sikh or punjabi. They show me one in million pics.

[jatt]

jatts are not part of the indian caste system so they are just shudras/dalits for orthodox hindus.Yes they were good warriors but only after the 17th century and before this period they were nothing special.I hope he is not one of this deluded jatts who think they are descendants of scythians when jatts look just like other indians of punjab.Jatt really reminds me on a not less annoying fat,ugly and small persian guy at school who thought he is the purest descendant of aryans and annoyed anyone with his "superiority complex" but looked like an egyptian.We had much fun with him,especially when we beaten him up Haha u 2suffer from small man syndrome too like your other afghan buddie Jatts n shudras. HahhahhaahahhHa. Anyways I don't believe in this me better than u stuff

[Dynamo]

Google urself where khan comes frm. Chengiz khan daddy of all khans

Your so stupid!!!!! Oh my daze ffs, just because someone used the name doesn't mske IT Mongolian. Look At his real name, the Khan was just a status, in Turkic it means General. Ask the turkish members

[Dynamo]

Haha u 2suffer from small man syndrome too like your other afghan buddie Jatts n shudras. HahhahhaahahhHa. Anyways I don't believe in this me better than u stuff

OKAY DEN Big boyyyy, apparently the "jatts and Sikhs" are more than six foot tall, looooool but you have s small cock and stink of daal

[jatt]

Says the one who jacks off to indian porno. I guess it was Me that bought sexual references into this thread. Looooool super hot girlfriend? Hey come on we know Mrs Singh is a bit chubby but domt take the mickey out of her. How am I gay? I'm just stating facts Bhai, not my fault your South indian genes has dominated your phenotype. Hey look on the bright side, you can be a Tamil model because of yiur brown skin, not black.
Mr Snow White here too you showing ur inferiority complex again. How does it matters if I look Tamil or not. These statements make u look a wannabe. I am what I am. And get admired often in real world so as u see I have no effect of your calling me anything. Confidence is another name of jatt.

[jatt]

Your so stupid!!!!! Oh my daze ffs, just because someone used the name doesn't mske IT Mongolian. Look At his real name, the Khan was just a status, in Turkic it means General. Ask the turkish members Turkish and turkik is not one n a same thing n by the way original Turks were mongoloid anyways. Now as I am in office gotta work.

[Arhat]

Turkish and turkik is not one n a same thing n by the way original Turks were mongoloid anyways. Now as I am in office gotta work.

india was in the last several thousand years just a playground for every invader.Everyone who tried to invade india was succesful and without the british colonial empire afghans would still raid india like in the good old times.

[asingh]

actually i have more respect for turks and mongols than for indians which country was in the last several thousand years just a playground for every invader.Everyone who tried to invade india was succesful and without the british colonial empire afghans would still raid india like in the good old times.

But it is still: India. Not that you invaded...!

:)

[Arhat]

But it is still: India. Not that you invaded...!

:)

we dont hate indians and afghans even love your crappy bollywood movies but it is just annoying that some say that we are south asians and belong to india indirectly.We always had our own distinct culture,language and mentality.We are both of indoeuropean origin and iranic and indo-aryan people have many linguistic and cultural similarities but we are also quite different from each other today

[zhaoyun]

Many of the Pashtuns I've met can pass for Mediterranean Europeans. I think one reason why they distance themselves from South Asia is because the Western image of South Asians is associated with Australoid racial mixture. Culturally, I would say Afghans are closer to Iranians than other South Asians, so that's probably another reason.

[Dynamo]

Many of the Pashtuns I've met can pass for Mediterranean Europeans. I think one reason why they distance themselves from South Asia is because the Western image of South Asians is associated with Australoid racial mixture. Culturally, I would say Afghans are closer to Iranians than other South Asians, so that's probably another reason.
Couldn't of said it better, culturally I find no affinity towards South asians in terms of language, morality, traditions, music ec. I would be lying if I said some afghans can't pass in South asia, because they can although even our dark ones( cricket players) hav their own distinct look. Genetically,Yes, out of iranians, Kurds turks and levantines, we have the most South asian influence,but could you be that suprised? I mean afghanistan is right next to South asia, and to be fair, our ancestors did pretty well to minimise the admixturew with South asians( thank god for the mountains). I mean, if you compare the average pashtun to the average punjabi, the South asian is more than double. Did you see my two Afghan friends genetic resukts? There's 2 more afghans but I don't access to it right now.

[Dynamo]

india was in the last several thousand years just a playground for every invader.Everyone who tried to invade india was succesful and without the british colonial empire afghans would still raid india like in the good old times.

Haha without the resistance of afghanistan during the Cold War against the soviets, all these communists country like the Central asian Republic, Eastern Europe and more would not have been freed. Our resistance gave a way for all these countries to claim their freedom. As for India, well, don't get it wrong, it's a great country with a long history, but the British really made indians wipe their ass. Never to afghans. They're still trying and still failing. Nothing new to them. Ask any Brit and they'll throw a fucking tantrum.

[jatt]

india was in the last several thousand years just a playground for every invader.Everyone who tried to invade india was succesful and without the british colonial empire afghans would still raid india like in the good old times.
Afghanistan was the doormat of every invader before they invaded india. Even today your country is used as a whore by Pakistan n west. Daily violated forget india even Pakistan can turn your country into parking lot.

[jatt]

Those central Asian invaders were parasites with no civilization of their own Other than how to live in a tent they knew nothing. Once gunpowder was invented these invaders became the worlds biggest sissies we know today

[jatt]

N regarding mugals. Their kin work as domestic helpers n dishwashers in restaurants of delhi

[Arhat]

Those central Asian invaders were parasites with no civilization of their own Other than how to live in a tent they knew nothing. Once gunpowder was invented these invaders became the worlds biggest sissies we know today

the languages you and most other indians speak are also just a relict of indoeuropean central asian invaders 3000 years ago who subjugated the local dravidians and forced them to speak indo-aryan languages like sanskrit.So your whole civilization is based on the invasion of central asian indoeuropean tribes.Many indians can not accept this facts and create this stupid out of india theories because they can not accept that aryans invaded them and that their own language came from "barbaric" invaders from the northwest

[jatt]

the languages you and most other indians speak are also just a relict of indoeuropean central asian invaders 3000 years ago who subjugated the local dravidians and forced them to speak indo-aryan languages like sanskrit.So your whole civilization is based on the invasion of central asian indoeuropean tribes.Many indians can not accept this facts and create this stupid out of india theories because they can not accept that aryans invaded them and that their own language came from "barbaric" invaders from the northwest

Come on. Indo Europeans indo Aryana were not mongoloid or look similar to central Asians. Aryan itself is Sanskrit word have nothing to do with central Asian languages it wouldn't been even famous if not for hitler making it famous

[Coon]

Pashtuns are Iranic speaking Pakistanis.

[Arhat]

Pashtuns are Iranic speaking Pakistanis.

:picard1: pashtuns live also in afghanistan and orginate from there. Afghanistan is actually named after them

[Arhat]

Come on. Indo Europeans indo Aryana were not mongoloid or look similar to central Asians. Aryan itself is Sanskrit word have nothing to do with central Asian languages it wouldn't been even famous if not for hitler making it famous

do you really think that ancient central asians 3000/4000 years ago were mongolic??? turks and mongols settled in central asia only in the last 1000 years and before that indoeuropeans like scythians,tocharians and yuezhi lived there.Ancient central asians were all caucasoid and carried r1a and other west asian haplogroups only

[StonyArabia]

Bro they like Arabs way more than Persians and Turks in my opinion because prophet Muhammad was Arab. They have high regard for Arabs.

That might be true, but the Arabs never made a significant impact in Afghanistan or South Asia, we made far more impact in Sicily and Iberia to be honest. As we did not care about the eastern part of the empire. It was the Turkic tribes that did care and came from that region to South Asia. We did care about North Africa however since it had similar culture and climate to us.

[Dynamo]

That might be true, but the Arabs never made a significant impact in Afghanistan or South Asia, we made far more impact in Sicily and Iberia to be honest. As we did not care about the Eastern empire. It was the Turkic tribes that did care.

More impact in Sicily? I think its more emphasised in Sicily although the impact in Iberia was pretty big. Ofcourse there's impact in Afghanistan due to the Arabs, but ,more Turkic yes.

[Dynamo]

Pashtuns are Iranic speaking Pakistanis.

So I take it you haven't read the last 21 pages? Troll.

[finþaų]

A traditional anthroboard wogdown, how lovely!

[Dynamo]

:picard1: pashtuns live also in afghanistan and orginate from there. Afghanistan is actually named after them

What people don't understand is, the HOMELAND of the pashtuns is AFGHANISTAN not pakistan. So what if theyres more of them over in Pakistan, a lot of them are admixed anyways and a lot of them claim false ancestry just to associate themselves with pashtuns. I've seen peshawaris and by God, they look frickin paki. Not iranid lookig but indid looking. When they count the ethnic groups, these kinds of people Will be counted as "pashtun". It's a pisstake because now people are claiming that pakistan is the homeland. The only pashtuns IMO in pakistan are the villagers at the border. You can forest about the ones in cities and apparently in the swat region, where malalai yusufzai comes from, they are pashtunized dardics. Although many look light pigmented.

[Dynamo]

A traditional anthroboard wogdown, how lovely!

Yeahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

[Dynamo]

A traditional anthroboard wogdown, how lovely!

Conclusion is : the title is fucking blocks, hence why OP is hiding.

I gave several links and posted genetic studies on afghans, calling us South asian genetically is absurd. We don't look soitun asian. We don't speak South asian language. We don't eat South asian food. Spicy as fuck plus your arsehole burns the next morning.

[StonyArabia]

More impact in Sicily? I think its more emphasised in Sicily although the impact in Iberia was pretty big. Ofcourse there's impact in Afghanistan due to the Arabs, but ,more Turkic yes.

The impact on Iberia was quite big there is no doubt, especially in culture and the linguistic aspect. In Sicily it was the same, but the rule was short lived, but in many areas the Arabs left some cultural elements, today they intermixed with the local traditions. The Arabs could not control Afghanistan so they left it and focused on expanding westward. This why the Turkic tribes made the most impact there and eventually to South Asia.

[back_up]

What people don't understand is, the HOMELAND of the pashtuns is AFGHANISTAN not pakistan. So what if theyres more of them over in Pakistan, a lot of them are admixed anyways and a lot of them claim false ancestry just to associate themselves with pashtuns. I've seen peshawaris and by God, they look frickin paki. Not iranid lookig but indid looking. When they count the ethnic groups, these kinds of people Will be counted as "pashtun". It's a pisstake because now people are claiming that pakistan is the homeland. The only pashtuns IMO in pakistan are the villagers at the border. You can forest about the ones in cities and apparently in the swat region, where malalai yusufzai comes from, they are pashtunized dardics. Although many look light pigmented.

What half breeds like you don't understand is that Pakistani pashtuns are not indid. Unlike Afghani pashtuns who have mixed with mongol bastards like tajiks, uzbeks, hazaras etc, Pakistani pashtuns have not.

And origin of all pashtuns is Sulaiman Mountains in upper Balochistan, open some book. Your avatar perfectly suite you.

[Dynamo]

What half breeds like you don't understand is that Pakistani pashtuns are not indid. Unlike Afghani pashtuns who have mixed with mongol bastards like tajiks, uzbeks, hazaras etc, Pakistani pashtuns have not.

And origin of all pashtuns is Sulaiman Mountains in upper Balochistan, open some book. Your avatar perfectly suite you.

I never said all, I said the ones from the cities. The ones in the villages next to the durrand line look no different to us. Half breeds? What's that meant To mean? I don't why you got insulted tbh because you kmoe its true. You genuinely believe pathans in Peshawar are fully pashtuns and have no recent admixture? No way in hell woukd I believe it. Even pashtuns in cities in Afghanistan are likley mixed with tajiks. The ones in villages are the pure ones most likley, and they clearly are less South asiab thsn pakistan Pathans. I've seen peshawaris, and bro, they look paki. Yes, their great grandparent was pribably an afghab who blah blah but that's tge truth. You mention the Suleiman mountains? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulaiman_Mountains

[Dynamo]

What half breeds like you don't understand is that Pakistani pashtuns are not indid. Unlike Afghani pashtuns who have mixed with mongol bastards like tajiks, uzbeks, hazaras etc, Pakistani pashtuns have not.

And origin of all pashtuns is Sulaiman Mountains in upper Balochistan, open some book. Your avatar perfectly suite you.

No yiur right, paki pathans have mixed with punjabis, and Sindhis modt likley.

[Arhat]

What half breeds like you don't understand is that Pakistani pashtuns are not indid. Unlike Afghani pashtuns who have mixed with mongol bastards like tajiks, uzbeks, hazaras etc, Pakistani pashtuns have not.

And origin of all pashtuns is Sulaiman Mountains in upper Balochistan, open some book. Your avatar perfectly suite you.

not all pakistani pashtuns are indid and the majority looks still iranic.But many in cities like peshawar are clearly mixed with indians and some areas where pashtuns live today in pakistan were only quite recently pashtunized. Afghan pashtuns have very low east asian components and they are a much better example for the genes and look of original pashtuns than most pashtuns in pakistan today.

[jatt]

Lol even Pakistani pashtoon are half Mongol. Look at Imran khan n his eyes. Many pashtoon look like nepalis

[Dynamo]

Lol even Pakistani pashtoon are half Mongol. Look at Imran khan n his eyes. Many pashtoon look like nepalis

Oh just fuck off mate your seriously annoying me now. We had a bit of bants now fuck off, don't know why your even hear in the first place, always looking to pop your head in between gaps and chat shit. We're trying to have a adult conversation here now. The eye thing has got nothing to do with mongoloid admixture ffs I've seen english people with those Kinds of eyes,guess the Brits got it from you lot when they had the British raj...

[jatt]

British n some euro have small eyes because of Mongol invasion too. Is a fact

[jatt]

Y I said pashtoons look Nepali because they are mixed race too n u going to get a shocker Visit kathmandoo

[Arhat]

British n some euro have small eyes because of Mongol invasion too. Is a fact

wow thank you, i didnt know that mongols invaded britain with their mighty mongolian fleet :picard2: .Maybe i should just ignore what educated people wrote and historians say about that because the omniscient Jatt knows it better.

[back_up]

not all pakistani pashtuns are indid and the majority looks still iranic.But many in cities like peshawar are clearly mixed with indians and some areas where pashtuns live today in pakistan were only quite recently pashtunized. Afghan pashtuns have very low east asian components and they are a much better example for the genes and look of original pashtuns than most pashtuns in pakistan today.


latest study done on Afghan pashtuns clearly showed more east asian genes compared to Pakistani pashtuns. And Tajiks, hazaras and Uzbeks are mongloid anyway so it does not surprise me that some mongol genes got to Afghan pashtuns. That why many Afghan pashtuns look like hazaras.

The reason Afghan pashtuns have less South Asian is because of more east asian component in them. So how the f are Afghan pashtuns mixed with mongols closer to original pashtuns?

[back_up]

I never said all, I said the ones from the cities. The ones in the villages next to the durrand line look no different to us. Half breeds? What's that meant To mean? I don't why you got insulted tbh because you kmoe its true. You genuinely believe pathans in Peshawar are fully pashtuns and have no recent admixture? No way in hell woukd I believe it. Even pashtuns in cities in Afghanistan are likley mixed with tajiks. The ones in villages are the pure ones most likley, and they clearly are less South asiab thsn pakistan Pathans. I've seen peshawaris, and bro, they look paki. Yes, their great grandparent was pribably an afghab who blah blah but that's tge truth. You mention the Suleiman mountains? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulaiman_Mountains

Not evryone in Peshawar is pashtun. Just like not everyone in Karachi is muhajir. I already wrote that the reason Afghan pashtuns have less South Asian is because of more east asian in them.

[Arhat]

latest study done on Afghan pashtuns clearly showed more east asian genes compared to Pakistani pashtuns. And Tajiks, hazaras and Uzbeks are mongloid anyway so it does not surprise me that some mongol genes got to Afghan pashtuns. That why many Afghan pashtuns look like hazaras.

The reason Afghan pashtuns have less South Asian is because of more east asian component in them. So how the f are Afghan pashtuns mixed with mongols closer to original pashtuns?

yes afghan pashtuns have more east asian dna than pakistan pashtuns and on average pashtuns have around 5% east asian dna there but some individuals have almost none and other have a bit more.This is not really much and surely not the reason why pashtuns in afghanistan have much less south asian dna components than pakistani pashtuns

[back_up]

yes afghan pashtuns have more east asian dna than pakistan pashtuns and on average pashtuns have around 5-7% east asian dna there but some individuals have almost none and other have a bit more.This is not really much and surely not the reason why pashtuns in afghanistan have much less south asian dna components than pakistani pashtuns

I don't want repeat again and again, read properly this time.

The reason Afghan pashtuns have less South Asian is because of more east asian. Learn how admixture is calculated and then come back.

[Dynamo]

latest study done on Afghan pashtuns clearly showed more east asian genes compared to Pakistani pashtuns. And Tajiks, hazaras and Uzbeks are mongloid anyway so it does not surprise me that some mongol genes got to Afghan pashtuns. That why many Afghan pashtuns look like hazaras.

The reason Afghan pashtuns have less South Asian is because of more east asian component in them. So how the f are Afghan pashtuns mixed with mongols closer to original pashtuns?

Have you seen the afghan pashtuns harappa world resukts? He's a mohammadzai and barakzai, he scored 1.19% northeast asian and 2.10 Siberian. Hardly admixture compared to almost more than 30% South asian admixture in Pathans from Pakistan. What's your point? The pakistan Pathans have way too much South Asian in them for them to be considered pure anyways. Look at the links I posted, all afghan pashtuns, East asian admixture is extremely little.

[back_up]

No yiur right, paki pathans have mixed with punjabis, and Sindhis modt likley.

Those who have settled in Punjab and mixed with punjabis are called punjabi pathans. Upper Balochistan, KPK and FATA where 70% of pashtuns live are not mixed with Sindhi/Punjabis.

[Dynamo]

I don't want repeat again and again, read properly this time.

The reason Afghan pashtuns have less South Asian is because of more east asian. Learn how admixture is calculated and then come back.

That's not true ffs anyways, ask me why. Because the afghan Pashtuns have a higher west eurasuan percentage, so even if your little fantasy is true, the afghans woukd have the same or even less percentage of Western eurasuan in them. Average pakistani Pathan had 81% Western eurasuan, average afghan pashtun ranged from 85-88%.

[Arhat]

latest study done on Afghan pashtuns clearly showed more east asian genes compared to Pakistani pashtuns. And Tajiks, hazaras and Uzbeks are mongloid anyway so it does not surprise me that some mongol genes got to Afghan pashtuns. That why many Afghan pashtuns look like hazaras.

The reason Afghan pashtuns have less South Asian is because of more east asian component in them. So how the f are Afghan pashtuns mixed with mongols closer to original pashtuns?

many afghan pashtuns look like hazaras??? are you kidding me? It is sad that you try to defame afghan pashtun .We never said that pakistani pashtuns look south asian but i and dynamo just mentioned that the samples that were used for this genetic studies were not representative because they were taken from an area were pashtuns often mixed with south asians so this pashtuns are more south asian shifted than other pashtuns

[back_up]

Have you seen the afghan pashtuns harappa world resukts? He's a mohammadzai and barakzai, he scored 1.19% northeast asian and 2.10 Siberian. Hardly admixture compared to almost more than 30% South asian admixture in Pathans from Pakistan. What's your point? The pakistan Pathans have way too much South Asian in them for them to be considered pure anyways. Look at the links I posted, all afghan pashtuns, East asian admixture is extremely little.

Here is actual study on Afghans.

http://www.harappadna.org/2014/01/afghan-dataset/

And Pakistani pashtuns average 20-22% South Asian.

[back_up]

many afghan pashtuns look like hazaras??? are you kidding me? It is sad that you try to defame afghan pashtun .We never said that pakistani pashtuns look south asian but i and dynamo just mentioned that the samples that were used for this genetic studies were not representative because they were taken from an area were pashtuns often mixed with south asians so this pashtuns are more south asian shifted than other pashtuns

study was done on 25 Pakistani pashtuns and average south asian was 23%, not over 30%...

And genius most lightest people in Pakistan and Afghanistan are Nuristanis and Kalash, and Kalash score 22% South Asian. So when the f did Pakistani pashtuns mixed with punjabis?

But its clear east asian genes in Afghan pashtuns are recent admixture thanks to mongols and thats why it shows in face.

[Dynamo]

study was done on 25 Pakistani pashtuns and average south asian was 23%, not over 30%...

And genius most lightest people in Pakistan and Afghanistan are Nuristanis and Kalash, and Kalash score 22% South Asian. So when the f did Pakistani pashtuns mixed with punjabis?

But its clear east asian genes in Afghan pashtuns are recent admixture thanks to mongols and thats why it shows in face.

It's kinda inconvenient lol. The reason why the average went down to 22% was because of two individuals who had South asiab score of I think 12 and 9%. The rest were well above 25%.

[Dynamo]

study was done on 25 Pakistani pashtuns and average south asian was 23%, not over 30%...

And genius most lightest people in Pakistan and Afghanistan are Nuristanis and Kalash, and Kalash score 22% South Asian. So when the f did Pakistani pashtuns mixed with punjabis?

But its clear east asian genes in Afghan pashtuns are recent admixture thanks to mongols and thats why it shows in face.
study has not been done on the nuristanis so you cannot speculate, although most likley is that they would be pretty close to tajiks and pashtuns. Afterall nuristan lies between laghman panjsher

[Arhat]

study was done on 25 Pakistani pashtuns and average south asian was 23%, not over 30%...

And genius most lightest people in Pakistan and Afghanistan are Nuristanis and Kalash, and Kalash score 22% South Asian. So when the f did Pakistani pashtuns mixed with punjabis?

But its clear east asian genes in Afghan pashtuns are recent admixture thanks to mongols and thats why it shows in face.

i really dont get where you got your hatred for afghan pashtuns.Mongols didnt mixed much with pashtuns in afghanistan and the tiny east asian admixture could come from anywhere.Already the old iranic tribes of central asia had a bit east asian admixture because they took east asian women in siberia and later they migrated to afghanistan so this is also a possible source for this admixture

[back_up]

i really dont get where you got your hatred for afghan pashtuns.Mongols didnt mixed much with pashtuns in afghanistan and the tiny east asian admixture could come from anywhere.Already the old iranic tribes of central asia had a bit east asian admixture because they took east asian women in siberia and later they migrated to afghanistan so this is also a possible source for this admixture

hatred? when afghanis are talking shit about my people then i will respond. No hatered for anyone particular. And you are wrong again, anyway lets leave it.

[Dynamo]

hatred? when afghanis are talking shit about my people then i will respond. No hatered for anyone particular. And you are wrong again, anyway lets leave it.

Oh it's yiur people now eh? Oksy den

[Sky earth]

Here is actual study on Afghans.

http://www.harappadna.org/2014/01/afghan-dataset/

And Pakistani pashtuns average 20-22% South Asian.

Lol Tajiks are basically half Turkic. Some score even higher Mongoloid admix than Uzbeks. Pashtuns have also big Turkic influence as the second largest Pashtun tribal confederacy ,the Ghilzais are probably originally of Turkic origin anyway

[Dynamo]

Lol Tajiks are basically half Turkic. Some score even higher Mongoloid admix than Uzbeks. Pashtuns have also big Turkic influence as the second largest Pashtun tribal confederacy ,the Ghilzais are probably originally of Turkic origin anyway

More than uzbeks? Really? Btw those samples were from North afghsnistsn not from Kabul, panjsher or other big cities.

[Sky earth]

More than uzbeks? Really? Btw those samples were from North afghsnistsn not from Kabul, panjsher or other big cities.

Of course not an average but 2 Tajik samples here have more Mongoloid admix than the Uzbek samples. Turkmens from Afghanistan are Definitely more Mongoloid than those from Turkmenistan

[Sky earth]

More than uzbeks? Really? Btw those samples were from North afghsnistsn not from Kabul, panjsher or other big cities.

Of course not an average but 2 Tajik samples here have more Mongoloid admix than the Uzbek samples. Turkmens from Afghanistan are Definitely more Mongoloid than those from Turkmenistan

[Arhat]

Lol Tajiks are basically half Turkic. Some score even higher Mongoloid admix than Uzbeks. Pashtuns have also big Turkic influence as the second largest Pashtun tribal confederacy ,the Ghilzais are probably originally of Turkic origin anyway

lol.Are you fucking serious? Tajiks of northern afghanistan are very different from the rest of the country and this areas are populated by Uzbeks.Tajiks of kabul,panjshir or parwan are almost entirely caucasoid and just show me one sample of a afghan tajik who is not from the north with so much east asian admixture

Ghilzai are not turks and even dont dream about that in your wet pan-turanian dreams.Ghilzai have nothing to do with turks and they are descendants of nomadic iranic tribes (hepthalites,saka,kushan) who mixed with sedentary iranic tribes like bactrians.

[scytsar]

Honestly I don't get why indians and pakis are so obsessed over trying to lump us in with them. And tajiks in afghanistan mongoloid? looool
this shit is hilarious coming from people who've never met any afghans, and those cricket players you posted were all mostly from nangarhar, take a minute to see the temperature in that area, you'll find it's a hell of a lot warmer than any other place in the country.
Here, some more average tajiks from afghanistan
53187
53188
53189
hell even this interview of a hazara who grew up in iran goes over this topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0IslpKscSM
the gist of it is she faced racism because she's a hazara, she also says when you ask iranians what an afghan looks like, the image of a hazara pops up and then says if aghae pedram (latif pedram) or any tajik/pashtun were to go to iran and say they're afghan iranians wouldn't believe them at first.

[scytsar]

lol.Are you fucking serious? Tajiks of northern afghanistan are very different from the rest of the country and this areas are populated by Uzbeks.Tajiks of kabul,panjshir or parwan are almost entirely caucasoid and just show me one sample of a afghan tajik who is not from the north with so much east asian admixture

Ghilzai are not turks and even dont dream about that in your wet pan-turanian dreams.Ghilzai have nothing to do with turks and they are descendants of nomadic iranic tribes (hepthalites,saka,kushan) who mixed with sedentary iranic tribes like bactrians.

Actually, when you're referring to north you must be referring to places like mazar-e sharif where there are lots of uzbeks and hazaras - even then tajiks are quite distinct like Atta Mohammad Nur for example. The north east, in the badakhshan-pamir area (incidentally also tajikistan's badakhshan and pamir regions) they look fully caucasian. It's the rest of tajikistan and the other northern areas of afghanistan where they look like they're 1/8 asian for example. And of course in the rest of afghanistan they look quite similar to pashtuns.

[Truthbetold]

Even italians look closer to us than south asians

loooool

Yeah we can feel the breeze from Tuscany and Roma already mate...HAHA

(all group pics of Afghan Pashtuns)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5144/5560629057_b4f74b7842.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5227/5560632715_f2142a8272.jpg

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2014-03/31/133227763_13962627048641n.jpg

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-IP858_TALFEA_G_20100525184404.jpg

http://www.breachbangclear.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/images_PashtunTribesmen.jpg

http://proof.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/12/7_CH3_013_13_173-Edit-Edit-featured.jpg

nono... :) absolutely nothing south asian :)... just tanned nordics/Atlanto-Meds.. :)

Jokes aside, they resemble Tajiks, Baloch/Brahui, Sindhi, Kashmiri, Gujjars, Punjabi Jatt, and some other high caste northwest Hindu Indians the most. Good looking people.


many afghan pashtuns look like hazaras??? are you kidding me? It is sad that you try to defame afghan pashtun .We never said that pakistani pashtuns look south asian but i and dynamo just mentioned that the samples that were used for this genetic studies were not representative because they were taken from an area were pashtuns often mixed with south asians so this pashtuns are more south asian shifted than other pashtuns

The same perpetual problem with you and your co-worker dynamo is that you two only talk. Talk, talk, talk, for the same fucking sake of talking and trying to distort reality. Still not one paper or one combination of PCA's/plots posted by either of you to support your arguments and motives. You both only refrain in saying Pakistani Pashtuns are not representative and other types of bullcrap without posting any proof. You two obviously try to dodge every paper, plot and graph posted and resort in using weasel words, trolling, and posting individual examples to represent a whole population separated in two nations. You have some superiority feeling towards South Asian people who clearlyyyyy cluster very closely with Pashtuns as is seen in all my graphs, plots, papers, and even the random example posted by Dynamo.



The reason Afghan pashtuns have less South Asian is because of more east asian component in them.
Exactly and it's only due to geographical proximity as the Afghan Pashtuns live somewhat more northern. Nothing else. They try to blame everything on their Indo-Aryan genetic brethren living in wider South Asia.



What people don't understand is, the HOMELAND of the pashtuns is AFGHANISTAN not pakistan. So what if theyres more of them over in Pakistan, a lot of them are admixed anyways and a lot of them claim false ancestry just to associate themselves with pashtuns. I've seen peshawaris and by God, they look frickin paki. Not iranid lookig but indid looking. When they count the ethnic groups, these kinds of people Will be counted as "pashtun". It's a pisstake because now people are claiming that pakistan is the homeland. The only pashtuns IMO in pakistan are the villagers at the border. You can forest about the ones in cities and apparently in the swat region, where malalai yusufzai comes from, they are pashtunized dardics. Although many look light pigmented.
Many many Pashtuns look Indid which is obvious as they cluster very closely with Sindhi's, Baloch, Kashmiris, etc. Even the posted results of your buddy show this ONCE again; he's closer to Sindhi's than to any West Asian population.


Many of the Pashtuns I've met can pass for Mediterranean Europeans. I think one reason why they distance themselves from South Asia is because the Western image of South Asians is associated with Australoid racial mixture. Culturally, I would say Afghans are closer to Iranians than other South Asians, so that's probably another reason.
Can you post me a group pic of at least five Pashtuns on the same pic that can all pass for Mediterranean Europeans? I sincerely sincerely doubt your first subjective statement. Afghan = nationality comprising Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Hazara, Sikh, Hindu, Dardic, etc. Pashtun = ethnicity mainly living in Pakistan and Afghanistan. But yes I agree Afghanistan as a nation is clearly Central Asian and their culture is rather skewed towards the ME and especially Central Asia. However, the various ethnicities living there are definetely not homogenous. Pashtuns are historically tied to South-Central Asia, while the Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc are virtually only tied to Central Asia. As one can see in the graphs, plots, papers the Tajiks, Uzbeks etc all clearly fall in the Central Asian cluster. Pashtuns however, the ones from Pakistan fall clear cut in the South Asian cluster, and the Afghan Pashtuns are on the edge of the Central Asian/South Asian cluster. All sources in this thread posted show this. Even the random sample posted by Dynamo show that he's very close to both Central Asian ethnicities such as Tajiks, but also close to Sindhi's, who are clearly South Asian.


Here is my friends dodecad world 9 results

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan (HGDP) 10.6
2 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 12.3
3 Burusho (HGDP) 13.9
4 Balochi (HGDP) 16.28
5 Brahui (HGDP) 17.39
6 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 17.71
7 Sindhi (HGDP) 17.93
8 Makrani 18.39
9 Kalash 19.27
10 Lezgins (Behar) 21.32
11 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 21.83
12 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 21.99
13 North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) 22.53
14 Balkars (Yunusbayev) 22.75
15 Adygei (HGDP) 22.76
16 Iranian (Dodecad) 23.31
17 Bnei_Menashe_Jews 23.98
18 Iranians (Behar) 26.13
19 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 27.08
20 Kurd (Dodecad) 27.17



HAHA, it only confirms everything I said once again. Pashtuns from Afghanistan are on the bordering cluster of South Asia and Central Asia, while Pakistani Pashtuns fall clear cut in South Asia. That's why your friend, an Afghan Pashtun, gets a Pakistani Pashtun on the first place, a Tajik (central asian ethnicity) on the second place, and RIGHT after that a Burusho (SOUTH ASIAN), followed by three more Pakistani ethnicities (South Asian), and one Central Asian (Turkmen). You only confirmed all my statements once again.

Summary:

Afghani Pashtuns = border of the South Asian and Central Asian genetic cluster
Pakistani Pashtuns = South Asian clearly genetically
Pashtun culture (all Pashtuns) = Central Asian
Afghanistan = South-Central Asian

As you like random examples so much as well haha
Here, an Indian Punjabi Jatt, your close genetic brethren. Just for you.

MDLP World 22.

Population Averages:

MDLP World-22 Oracle results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West-Asian 35.78
2 Indian 31.98
3 North-East-European 10.75
4 Indo-Iranian 8.34
5 Samoedic 3.19
6 North-European-Mesolithic 2.57
7 Near_East 1.84
8 North-Amerind 1.82
9 Indo-Tibetan 1.45
10 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 1.41
11 East-Siberean 0.51
12 South-America_Amerind 0.34
13 Mesoamerican 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan (derived) 6.52
2 Burusho (derived) 6.88
3 Sindhi (derived) 11.02
4 Balochi (derived) 14.25
5 Pashtun (derived) 14.27
6 Jew_India (derived) 17.12
7 Brahui (derived) 18.79
8 Makrani (derived) 19.09
9 Tadjik (derived) 20.14
10 Parsi (derived) 21.03
11 Hindu (derived) 25.37
12 Turkmen (derived) 27.1
13 Roma (derived) 27.97
14 Uzbek (derived) 31.47
15 Indian (derived) 33.64
16 Nogai (derived) 33.82
17 Kumyk (derived) 33.85
18 Hazara (derived) 34.06
19 Iranian (derived) 34.06
20 Azeri (derived) 34.07

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.4% Pathan (derived) + 13.6% Indian (derived) @ 3.83
2 82.8% Pathan (derived) + 17.2% Hindu (derived) @ 3.93
3 93.1% Pathan (derived) + 6.9% Indian (ancestral) @ 4.01
4 64.7% Pashtun (derived) + 35.3% Hindu (derived) @ 4.17
5 83.6% Pashtun (derived) + 16.4% Indian (ancestral) @ 4.49
6 56% Tadjik (derived) + 44% Hindu (derived) @ 4.54
7 79.6% Pathan (derived) + 20.4% Jew_India (derived) @ 4.99
8 57.9% Hindu (derived) + 42.1% Tabassaran (derived) @ 5.3
9 58.2% Hindu (derived) + 41.8% Lak (derived) @ 5.41
10 59% Hindu (derived) + 41% Avar (derived) @ 5.51
11 55.3% Pathan (derived) + 44.7% Burusho (derived) @ 5.78
12 58.2% Hindu (derived) + 41.8% Lezgin (derived) @ 5.86
13 96.2% Burusho (derived) + 3.8% North-East-European (ancestral) @ 5.9
14 95.6% Burusho (derived) + 4.4% Lithuanian (derived) @ 5.94
15 95.3% Burusho (derived) + 4.7% Belarusian (derived) @ 5.94
16 95.5% Burusho (derived) + 4.5% Lithuanian_V (derived) @ 5.96
17 95.6% Burusho (derived) + 4.4% Latvian (derived) @ 5.98
18 95.4% Burusho (derived) + 4.6% Russian (derived) @ 6.01
19 95.3% Burusho (derived) + 4.7% Polish (derived) @ 6.01
20 95.2% Burusho (derived) + 4.8% Polish_V (derived) @ 6.01

He's even closer to Pakistani Pashtuns than your friend is lol.

Dodecad k12b, Indian Punjabi Jatt

Admixture Results:

#Population Percent
1 Gedrosia 40.78
2 South_Asian 30.95
3 North_European 14.48
4 Caucasus 8.88
5 Southwest_Asian 2.32
6 Siberian 2.1
7 Atlantic_Med 0.41
8 East_African 0.1


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Jatt @ 7.216
2 Pathan @ 9.177
3 Burusho @ 11.200
4 Sindhi @ 14.130
5 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh @ 15.545
6 Meena @ 17.089
7 Kshatriya @ 19.331
8 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu @ 21.299
9 Indian @ 21.783
10 Cochin_Jews @ 21.856
223 iterations.
[/B]

You two are too butthurt and have a too high sense of superiority complexion to embrace and acknowledge the obvious facts that the Pashtun ethnic group are very close genetically to other Northwestern South Asian populations like the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, High Caste Northwestern Hindu Indians, Burusho. Those from Pakistan more than those from Afghanistan. Now it's time for both of you to lower your heads, and start making dat curry. Cheers

[scytsar]

jesus, how many times do we have to post new studies done on AFGHAN pashtuns, and not paki or indian pathans for you to get the point? The people you posted were all destitute and poor, with not a care to their appearance and yet they still look strikingly different compared to pakis or indians, I won't even get into the fact that most of them look like they're from nangarhar/jalalabad. No one's dodging anything here but you. If you're a daalkhor looking to group yourself with us go right ahead, the entire world, including your brethren know exactly how similar and different we are.

[scytsar]

53193
53194

I'm not even denying some pashtuns can look indian, but what you're saying is all of us look indian which isn't true, even in pakistan they recognize that the 'pathans' up north are quite different looking not to mention foreign in culture.

Even if most pashtuns have a high south asian genetic component, it's still fact that even indians/pakis recognize we look way different to them

[Dynamo]

loooool

Yeah we can feel the breeze from Tuscany and Roma already mate...HAHA

(all group pics of Afghan Pashtuns)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5144/5560629057_b4f74b7842.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5227/5560632715_f2142a8272.jpg

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2014-03/31/133227763_13962627048641n.jpg

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-IP858_TALFEA_G_20100525184404.jpg

http://www.breachbangclear.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/images_PashtunTribesmen.jpg

http://proof.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/12/7_CH3_013_13_173-Edit-Edit-featured.jpg

nono... :) absolutely nothing south asian :)... just tanned nordics/Atlanto-Meds.. :)

Jokes aside, they resemble Tajiks, Baloch/Brahui, Sindhi, Kashmiri, Gujjars, Punjabi Jatt, and some other high caste northwest Hindu Indians the most. Good looking people.



The same perpetual problem with you and your co-worker dynamo is that you two only talk. Talk, talk, talk, for the same fucking sake of talking and trying to distort reality. Still not one paper or one combination of PCA's/plots posted by either of you to support your arguments and motives. You both only refrain in saying Pakistani Pashtuns are not representative and other types of bullcrap without posting any proof. You two obviously try to dodge every paper, plot and graph posted and resort in using weasel words, trolling, and posting individual examples to represent a whole population separated in two nations. You have some superiority feeling towards South Asian people who clearlyyyyy cluster very closely with Pashtuns as is seen in all my graphs, plots, papers, and even the random example posted by Dynamo.



Exactly and it's only due to geographical proximity as the Afghan Pashtuns live somewhat more northern. Nothing else. They try to blame everything on their Indo-Aryan genetic brethren living in wider South Asia.



Many many Pashtuns look Indid which is obvious as they cluster very closely with Sindhi's, Baloch, Kashmiris, etc. Even the posted results of your buddy show this ONCE again; he's closer to Sindhi's than to any West Asian population.


Can you post me a group pic of at least five Pashtuns on the same pic that can all pass for Mediterranean Europeans? I sincerely sincerely doubt your first subjective statement. Afghan = nationality comprising Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Hazara, Sikh, Hindu, Dardic, etc. Pashtun = ethnicity mainly living in Pakistan and Afghanistan. But yes I agree Afghanistan as a nation is clearly Central Asian and their culture is rather skewed towards the ME and especially Central Asia. However, the various ethnicities living there are definetely not homogenous. Pashtuns are historically tied to South-Central Asia, while the Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc are virtually only tied to Central Asia. As one can see in the graphs, plots, papers the Tajiks, Uzbeks etc all clearly fall in the Central Asian cluster. Pashtuns however, the ones from Pakistan fall clear cut in the South Asian cluster, and the Afghan Pashtuns are on the edge of the Central Asian/South Asian cluster. All sources in this thread posted show this. Even the random sample posted by Dynamo show that he's very close to both Central Asian ethnicities such as Tajiks, but also close to Sindhi's, who are clearly South Asian.



HAHA, it only confirms everything I said once again. Pashtuns from Afghanistan are on the bordering cluster of South Asia and Central Asia, while Pakistani Pashtuns fall clear cut in South Asia. That's why your friend, an Afghan Pashtun, gets a Pakistani Pashtun on the first place, a Tajik (central asian ethnicity) on the second place, and RIGHT after that a Burusho (SOUTH ASIAN), followed by three more Pakistani ethnicities (South Asian), and one Central Asian (Turkmen). You only confirmed all my statements once again.

Summary:

Afghani Pashtuns = border of the South Asian and Central Asian genetic cluster
Pakistani Pashtuns = South Asian clearly genetically
Pashtun culture (all Pashtuns) = Central Asian
Afghanistan = South-Central Asian

As you like random examples so much as well haha
Here, an Indian Punjabi Jatt, your close genetic brethren. Just for you.

MDLP World 22.

Population Averages:

MDLP World-22 Oracle results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West-Asian 35.78
2 Indian 31.98
3 North-East-European 10.75
4 Indo-Iranian 8.34
5 Samoedic 3.19
6 North-European-Mesolithic 2.57
7 Near_East 1.84
8 North-Amerind 1.82
9 Indo-Tibetan 1.45
10 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 1.41
11 East-Siberean 0.51
12 South-America_Amerind 0.34
13 Mesoamerican 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan (derived) 6.52
2 Burusho (derived) 6.88
3 Sindhi (derived) 11.02
4 Balochi (derived) 14.25
5 Pashtun (derived) 14.27
6 Jew_India (derived) 17.12
7 Brahui (derived) 18.79
8 Makrani (derived) 19.09
9 Tadjik (derived) 20.14
10 Parsi (derived) 21.03
11 Hindu (derived) 25.37
12 Turkmen (derived) 27.1
13 Roma (derived) 27.97
14 Uzbek (derived) 31.47
15 Indian (derived) 33.64
16 Nogai (derived) 33.82
17 Kumyk (derived) 33.85
18 Hazara (derived) 34.06
19 Iranian (derived) 34.06
20 Azeri (derived) 34.07

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.4% Pathan (derived) + 13.6% Indian (derived) @ 3.83
2 82.8% Pathan (derived) + 17.2% Hindu (derived) @ 3.93
3 93.1% Pathan (derived) + 6.9% Indian (ancestral) @ 4.01
4 64.7% Pashtun (derived) + 35.3% Hindu (derived) @ 4.17
5 83.6% Pashtun (derived) + 16.4% Indian (ancestral) @ 4.49
6 56% Tadjik (derived) + 44% Hindu (derived) @ 4.54
7 79.6% Pathan (derived) + 20.4% Jew_India (derived) @ 4.99
8 57.9% Hindu (derived) + 42.1% Tabassaran (derived) @ 5.3
9 58.2% Hindu (derived) + 41.8% Lak (derived) @ 5.41
10 59% Hindu (derived) + 41% Avar (derived) @ 5.51
11 55.3% Pathan (derived) + 44.7% Burusho (derived) @ 5.78
12 58.2% Hindu (derived) + 41.8% Lezgin (derived) @ 5.86
13 96.2% Burusho (derived) + 3.8% North-East-European (ancestral) @ 5.9
14 95.6% Burusho (derived) + 4.4% Lithuanian (derived) @ 5.94
15 95.3% Burusho (derived) + 4.7% Belarusian (derived) @ 5.94
16 95.5% Burusho (derived) + 4.5% Lithuanian_V (derived) @ 5.96
17 95.6% Burusho (derived) + 4.4% Latvian (derived) @ 5.98
18 95.4% Burusho (derived) + 4.6% Russian (derived) @ 6.01
19 95.3% Burusho (derived) + 4.7% Polish (derived) @ 6.01
20 95.2% Burusho (derived) + 4.8% Polish_V (derived) @ 6.01

He's even closer to Pakistani Pashtuns than your friend is lol.

Dodecad k12b, Indian Punjabi Jatt

Admixture Results:

#Population Percent
1 Gedrosia 40.78
2 South_Asian 30.95
3 North_European 14.48
4 Caucasus 8.88
5 Southwest_Asian 2.32
6 Siberian 2.1
7 Atlantic_Med 0.41
8 East_African 0.1


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Jatt @ 7.216
2 Pathan @ 9.177
3 Burusho @ 11.200
4 Sindhi @ 14.130
5 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh @ 15.545
6 Meena @ 17.089
7 Kshatriya @ 19.331
8 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu @ 21.299
9 Indian @ 21.783
10 Cochin_Jews @ 21.856
223 iterations.
[/B]

You two are too butthurt and have a too high sense of superiority complexion to embrace and acknowledge the obvious facts that the Pashtun ethnic group are very close genetically to other Northwestern South Asian populations like the Punjabi Jatts, Kashmiris, Sindhi's, High Caste Northwestern Hindu Indians, Burusho. Those from Pakistan more than those from Afghanistan. Now it's time for both of you to lower your heads, and start making dat curry. Cheers

5 afghans? Ha. These are people I know so don't quote http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?133954-Classify-group-of-afghans
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?128878-Classify-Afghan-teams Theres more if you bothered looking at the VIDEOS and pics I posted

[Dynamo]

According to the harappa ancestry project, the Sindhis were from a region in Baluchistan where many adopted Sindhi culture. Plus when I said they are not close with South asians, I meant North indians, jatts, Sikhs etc. Burushos, Kalash and sindhis are the only ones where were close. Fine. The afghabs form a complete separate cluster from the South asians ffs, why can't you accept that?

[Coon]

Pashtuns are clearly Pakistanis who speak an Iranic language. Very few of them could pass outside of Pakistan, let alone in Georgia or Turkey. Maybe they can pass as gypsies or Pakistani immigrants there.

[Dynamo]

How many times do I have to show AFGHAN Pashtuns results? Stop fucking showing me pathans from Pakistan that's irrekevant yo me, I showed you several studies done on us. We have little although present South asian influence. We do t cluster with South asians. We form our own cluster. And how many times did I say that pca plots just showed how western eurasian you are? Average iranian Turk lebanese are 93% western eurasuan. The 4 afghans individuals were 85%, 85% 86% and 88%. Just a couple percentage off the iranian ckuster but not within it, we accept that ffs!!!!!! We firm our own cluster