Classify Gypsy activist and journalist from Austria

[Leto]

Gilda Horvath
http://www.beams-project.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Gilda-Horvath-940x625.jpg
http://diepresse.com/images/uploads/6/1/d/1316381/schokohupf_schlag_statt_mohr_gilda_horvath20121123 194649.jpg
http://5.firepic.org/5/images/2014-12/14/6powyrlfzrth.jpg

[TheForeigner]

Surprisingly light pigmented for a Gypsy. Looks South European by coloration only at least. Could pass as Romanian and Italian easily.

[King Claus]

beastoid

[Leto]

Surprisingly light pigmented for a Gypsy. Looks South European by coloration only at least. Could pass as Romanian and Italian easily.
Yes, she doesn't look like your average Gypsy. She must be heavily Euro-admixed.

[Jana]

Asian alpine altered by Taurid maybe. I think she could pass as Afghan ? Croatian surname though .....:p

[Highlands]

Armenoid & Alpine-Med

[Borna]

Surprisingly light pigmented for a Gypsy. Looks South European by coloration only at least. Could pass as Romanian and Italian easily.

Thats most likely because Horvath is Croatian surname, and some of her ancestors were probably Croats who mixed with animals.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Call it my desi master skills but I can pick up the south asian.

[Leto]

Thats most likely because Horvath is Croatian surname, and some of her ancestors were probably Croats who mixed with animals.

Gilda Horvath (* 1983 in Wien) ist eine österreichische Roma-Aktivistin, Kolumnistin sowie Journalistin bei der Roma-Redaktion des ORF. Sie gehört der Roma-Gruppe der Lowara an, zudem ist sie die Obfrau der Organisation Lovara-Roma Österreich. Horvath moderiert außerdem die Sendung Servus, Szia, Zdravo, Del tuha. Horvats Familie lebt seit mehr als drei Generationen in Österreich. Sie persönlich gibt an, dass ihre Urgroßmutter aus Deutschland kam und andere Verwandte aus Ungarn kamen.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilda_Horvath

[solaris]

Thats most likely because Horvath is Croatian surname.

bist ja ein richtiger wiffzack.

[Baldur]

I always thought Horvath was a Hungarian name.

[Jana]

I always thought Horvath was a Hungarian name.

It is very common in Hungary, but Horvat means Croat. Most Croatian like name would be person named Hrvoje Horvat. I am not saying Hungarians with surname Horvath are Croats though.

[Baldur]

It is very common in Hungary, but Horvat means Croat. Most Croatian like name would be person named Hrvoje Horvat. I am not saying Hungarians with surname Horvath are Croats though.

Yeah now when I thought more about it, it makes sense since Hrvatska = Croatia. Found this:

The surname Horvat is the most frequent surname in Slovakia, and 4th most frequent in Hungary.

[Corvus]

I always thought Horvath was a Hungarian name.

Indeed it is. And its a gypsy name.

But the woman is attractive despite her slight overweight

[Antimage]

Asian alpine altered by Taurid maybe. I think she could pass as Afghan ? Croatian surname though .....:p

this is hungarian surname

[Antimage]

Thats most likely because Horvath is Croatian surname, and some of her ancestors were probably Croats who mixed with animals.

gypsies in hungary often have that surname, but it's frequent among ethnic hungarians too. I believe the girl has hungarian-roma ancestry. I also think this surname doesn't indicate croatian origin

[Borna]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilda_Horvath

There hundred of thousands Hungarians with surname Horvath, but they are not really Hungarians.
Hungarians assimilated large number of Slavs, including Croats.

[TheForeigner]

I knew a Hungarian girl from Transylvania with the surname Horvath and she said it's Slovakian and that she is part Slovakian. Hungarians have assimilated large numbers of ethnic minorities, in even recent or modern times.

[Borna]

Horvati su uglavnom Hrvati, većim dijelom iz Čakovca, a prema nekim izvorima iz Like, okolice Zagreba, Turopolja te iz Mađarske. Vrlo su rijetko Mađari (okolica Belog Manastira) te Romi (okolica Čakovca). Razmjerno najviše Horvata u proteklih sto godina rođeno je u Čakovcu, gdje se svaki četrdeseti stanovnik prezivao Horvat. U Hrvatskoj danas živi oko dvadeset tisuća Horvata u više od sedam tisuća domaćinstava (1. prezime prema brojnosti). Sredinom prošlog stoljeća bilo ih je približno devetnaest tisuća, pa se njihov broj do danas povećao za jednu petinu.
Etimologija

Horvaths are mainly Croats, most of them are located in Čakovec, and by some sources they came from Lika, surroundings of Zagreb or Hungary. In very rare case (In Croatia) they are Hungarians, or Gypsies ( Near Čakovec). Most of Horvats are born in Čakovec, where every 40th citizen had surname Horvath.

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/view/family_name/prezime-horvat

First people who were noted with such last name were Croatian nobles Ivan and Stjepan Horvath. I highly doubt Hungarians use name Stjepan.

[Leto]

There hundred of thousands Hungarians with surname Horvath, but they are not really Hungarians.
Hungarians assimilated large number of Slavs, including Croats.
Btw, I wonder if recent ex-Yugoslavian immigrants can or try to pass as Burgenland Croats in Austria. They are considered indigenous there, so a person won't be an immigrant if he says he's a Burgenland Croat.

[StonyArabia]

She is good looking Alpine-Med.

[TheForeigner]

Papa Bouba Diop, are you really Swedish and why do you have the manele singer from Romania Sandu Ciorba on your signature? Are you trolling Romanians or do you really like shit Gypsy manele music?

[Antimage]

There hundred of thousands Hungarians with surname Horvath, but they are not really Hungarians.
Hungarians assimilated large number of Slavs, including Croats.

whether we assimilated large number of croats or not, Horváth is clearly a hungarian surname. the "th" at the end is typical for hungarian surnames eg. Mikszáth, Németh(means german), Vassuth, Kossuth etc.

this gypsy below is called Aladár Horváth, do you think he's also assimilated croatian?
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPTddb0Iu4PRjbc3ssSTpJ2CNB72ANW Z3gVCYWnhYUQ3nA-fm_bA

[Jana]

Papa Bouba Diop, are you really Swedish and why do you have the manele singer from Romania Sandu Ciorba on your signature? Are you trolling Romanians or do you really like shit Gypsy manele music?

He is ethnic Swede from Malmo. :)

[Baldur]

Papa Bouba Diop, are you really Swedish and why do you have the manele singer from Romania Sandu Ciorba on your signature? Are you trolling Romanians or do you really like shit Gypsy manele music?

Sandu Ciorba is my father.

[Corvus]

Btw, I wonder if recent ex-Yugoslavia immigrant can or try to pass as Burgenland Croats in Austria. They are considered indigenous there, so a person won't be an immigrant if he says he's a Burgenland Croat.

Burgenland Croats speak an archaic version of Croatian. They have distincitive names but regarding appearance you can`t tell them apart from German Austrians in general. But you can even hardly distinguish a Croatian immigrant from an Austrian just by sight.
So surely they can pass.

[TheForeigner]

[QUOTE=illes93;3221451]whether we assimilated large number of croats or not, Horváth is clearly a hungarian surname. the "th" at the end is typical for hungarian surnames eg. Mikszáth, Németh(means german), Vassuth, Kossuth etc.

Lajos Kossuth was of Slovakian and German descent. His surname was Slovak.

[Antimage]

Horvaths are mainly Croats, most of them are located in Čakovec, and by some sources they came from Lika, surroundings of Zagreb or Hungary. In very rare case (In Croatia) they are Hungarians, or Gypsies ( Near Čakovec). Most of Horvats are born in Čakovec, where every 40th citizen had surname Horvath.

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/view/family_name/prezime-horvat

First people who were noted with such last name were Croatian nobles Ivan and Stjepan Horvath. I highly doubt Hungarians use name Stjepan.

maybe, in hungary they definitely aren't croats

[Borna]

Btw, I wonder if recent ex-Yugoslavian immigrants can or try to pass as Burgenland Croats in Austria. They are considered indigenous there, so a person won't be an immigrant if he says he's a Burgenland Croat.

Burgenland Croats are most true Croats of all. In every possible aspect, culture, dialect, appearance ... They are core of Slavic population in Croatia (Or at least they were). They preserved literally everything in Austria after they fled Ottomans. They are those Croats who came from Carpathian basin and settled Croatia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/02_Ferdinand_Quiquerez_Dolazak_Hrvata_k_moru.JPG

(Arrival of the Croats at the Sea, Roman lady greets the Slavic invaders)

[Antimage]

[QUOTE=illes93;3221451]whether we assimilated large number of croats or not, Horváth is clearly a hungarian surname. the "th" at the end is typical for hungarian surnames eg. Mikszáth, Németh(means german), Vassuth, Kossuth etc.

Lajos Kossuth was of Slovakian and German descent. His surname was Slovak.

his surname is hungarianized. slovaks call him 'Ľudovít Košut'

[TheForeigner]

Burgenland Croats speak an archaic version of Croatian. They have distincitive names but regarding appearance you can`t tell them apart from German Austrians in general. But you can even hardly distinguish a Croatian immigrant from an Austrian just by sight.
So surely they can pass.

Only more limited German language skills and an accent will give them away as foreign.

[Corvus]

Burgenland Croats are most true Croats of all. In every possible aspect, culture, dialect, appearance ... They are core of Slavic population in Croatia (Or at least they were). They preserved literally everything in Austria after they fled Ottomans. They are those Croats who came from Carpathian basin and settled Croatia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/02_Ferdinand_Quiquerez_Dolazak_Hrvata_k_moru.JPG

(Arrival of the Croats at the Sea, Roman lady greets the Slavic invaders)

I agree but most of them are not able to speak fluent Croatian anymore.

[Borna]

[QUOTE=illes93;3221451]whether we assimilated large number of croats or not, Horváth is clearly a hungarian surname. the "th" at the end is typical for hungarian surnames eg. Mikszáth, Németh(means german), Vassuth, Kossuth etc.

Lajos Kossuth was of Slovakian and German descent. His surname was Slovak.

Similar like Sandor Petefi was Serb/Slovak.

[Antimage]

I knew a Hungarian girl from Transylvania with the surname Horvath and she said it's Slovakian and that she is part Slovakian. Hungarians have assimilated large numbers of ethnic minorities, in even recent or modern times.

it can't be slovakian because in slovakian language the equivalent of croatian is Chorvát, not Horváth, which is in hungarian

[Antimage]

[QUOTE=WhiteBear;3221457]

Similar like Sandor Petefi was Serb/Slovak.

irrelevant. Kossuth is hungarianized surname, the original form was Košut

[Borna]

Burgenland Croats speak an archaic version of Croatian. They have distincitive names but regarding appearance you can`t tell them apart from German Austrians in general. But you can even hardly distinguish a Croatian immigrant from an Austrian just by sight.
So surely they can pass.

They do not speak "Archaic" but most proper Croatian dialect Čakavian, this is the truest form of Croatian language . Some of them Kajkavian or even Štokavian, but essence is Čakavian. Probably modern Croats from Burgenland can't speak Croatian, but elder people know it very well.

My paternal Grandma is Burgenland Croat.

Croats moved everywhere around Central Europe, Slovakian president was of Croatian descent.

[TheForeigner]

[QUOTE=WhiteBear;3221457]

Similar like Sandor Petefi was Serb/Slovak.

Petrofi Sandor as they call him,is their most famous and popular writer, I believe. So many of their heroes are of partly or wholly non-Hungarian origin.

[Leto]

it can't be slovakian because in slovakian language the equivalent of croatian is Chorvát, not Horváth, which is in hungarian
Just like in Russian. Хорват/Khorvat.

[Antimage]

[QUOTE=WhiteBear;3221457]

Similar like Sandor Petefi was Serb/Slovak.

Petőfi was the most hungarian man ever. he considered himself hungarian and fought for the hungarian nation. He had serbian and slovakian origins but that means absolutely nothing imo

[Leto]

They do not speak "Archaic" but most proper Croatian dialect Čakavian, this is the truest form of Croatian language . Some of them Kajkavian or even Štokavian, but essence is Čakavian. Probably modern Croats from Burgenland can't speak Croatian, but elder people know it very well.

My paternal Grandma is Burgenland Croat.
Don't they study the modern Croatian language? (I'm leaving out the Serbo part in this case). I mean the language the Republic of Croatia uses.

[Borna]

[QUOTE=Ringelnatter;3221473]

Petőfi was the most hungarian man ever. he considered himself hungarian and fought for the hungarian nation. He had serbian and slovakian origins but that means absolutely nothing imo


I am speaking about his origin, not about his views. Nothing wrong with him identifying as Hungarian, we were all in one state. We formed the brave old world, Hungarians are one of the very few allies we had, and no sane Croat feels any kind of hatred toward Hungarians.

Seems that Serbs were easiest to Hungarize, Janoš Damjanović or whatever his name is, comes to mind. He fought against his own people for Hungarians, and even got hanged when Magyar revolution collapsed because he fought Austrians.

[TheForeigner]

[QUOTE=Ringelnatter;3221473]

Petőfi was the most hungarian man ever. he considered himself hungarian and fought for the hungarian nation. He had serbian and slovakian origins but that means absolutely nothing imo
Very American trait the Hungarian nation has. Greatest writer, greatest king and greatest modern political leader were of non-Hungarian origin. Well Matei Corvin was only part Romanian. Some other kings had some Cuman ancestry. In fact Americans used to be dominated by the ''WASP'' old stock at least.

[Borna]

Don't they study the modern Croatian language? (I'm leaving out the Serbo part in this case). I mean the language the Republic of Croatia uses.

I do not know, i left Burgenland when i was 4 years old. I lived there for 2 years with my mother while my father was serving in the War.

[TheForeigner]

[QUOTE=illes93;3221493]


I am speaking about his origin, not about his views. Nothing wrong with him identifying as Hungarian, we were all in one state. We formed the brave old world, Hungarians are one of the very few allies we had, and no sane Croat feels any kind of hatred toward Hungarians.

Seems that Serbs were easiest to Hungarize, Janoš Damjanović or whatever his name is, comes to mind. He fought against his own people for Hungarians, and even got hanged when Magyar revolution collapsed because he fought Austrians.

Romanians had Pomut as one of many military officer who fought with Hungarian revolutionaries and also, more or less, against his own people. He escaped capture and then went to fight in the US federal army against Southern secessionist, some years later. He even became an American army brigadier general during that war and major American diplomat later.

[Borna]

Romanians had Pomut as one of many military officer who fought with Hungarian revolutionaries and also, more or less, against his own people. He escaped capture and then went to fight in the US federal army against Southern secessionist, some years later. He even became an American army brigadier general during that war and major American diplomat later.

Croats were on the Vienna side, but it was mistake we realized pretty soon, since we got backstabbed by Vienna, while only nation which got something were Serbs, their support was rewarded really well, it was the point when Hungarians lost Vojvodina on a long term, but they did not realize it.

[Duke]

It is very common in Hungary, but Horvat means Croat. Most Croatian like name would be person named Hrvoje Horvat. I am not saying Hungarians with surname Horvath are Croats though.


It is Hungarian surname, and most of them are not Croats but Roma, this is because Roma didnt had surnames back then, and Hungarians gave them surname from place they come from.

Lots od Roma people emigrated to Hungary from Croatia at one point, and got Horvath surname, and Croats had surnames, so at best they got hungarized.
with Roma birth rates, they went larger in number over time

Actually when i thing about it, Horvath is probably least Croatian surname, even if it means Croat in Hungarian

[Duke]

Don't they study the modern Croatian language? (I'm leaving out the Serbo part in this case). I mean the language the Republic of Croatia uses.

Its not much different, they have al 3 dialects, štokavian, kajkavian and čakavian, only diference they took čakavian as standard opposed to us, we took štokavian

[Borna]

It is Hungarian surname, and most of them are not Croats but Roma, this is because Roma didnt had surnames back then, and Hungarians gave them surname from place they come from.

Lots od Roma people emigrated to Hungary from Croatia at one point, and got Horvath surname, and Croats had surnames, so at best they got hungarized.

Actually when i thing about it, Horvath is probably least Croatian surname, even if it means Croat in Hungarian

Može biti, ali kaj onda na imehrvatsko piše drukčije ?

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/view/family_name/prezime-horvat

[Antimage]

[QUOTE=illes93;3221493]
Very American trait the Hungarian nation has. Greatest writer, greatest king and greatest modern political leader were of non-Hungarian origin. Well Matei Corvin was only part Romanian. Some other kings had some Cuman ancestry. In fact Americans used to be dominated by the ''WASP'' old stock at least.


It's not that special imo. If they live in hungary and consider themselves hungarian, then they are accepted as ethinc hungarians. Although this this doesn't apply to gypsies, they are sadly discriminated nowdays in hungary.

[Borna]

they are sadly discriminated nowdays in hungary.

?

[Antimage]

It is Hungarian surname, and most of them are not Croats but Roma, this is because Roma didnt had surnames back then, and Hungarians gave them surname from place they come from.

Lots od Roma people emigrated to Hungary from Croatia at one point, and got Horvath surname, and Croats had surnames, so at best they got hungarized.

Actually when i thing about it, Horvath is probably least Croatian surname, even if it means Croat in Hungarian

It is true. Gypsies often have this surname in hungary, but not rare among ethnic hungarians either. There are also gypsies with the surname 'Németh'(german) or 'Magyar'. Horváth definitely doesn't indicate croatian origins

[Duke]

Može biti, ali kaj onda na imehrvatsko piše drukčije ?

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/view/family_name/prezime-horvat

pa krivo piše, to su prezime djelili mađari, mogli su dat i njemcima, i tunguzijcima, a ti ljudi kod čakovca su blizu granice sa mađarskom, znači da je bilo migracije tamo-vamo


To je sigurno mađarsko prezime, pa nema smisla da se hrvat u hrvatskoj preziva Horvath :D

[Antimage]

?

I am anti racist, I believe gypsies are good people, they are just poor and live in bad conditions.

Do you still maintain your view that people with 'Horváth' surname in hungary aren't 'real hungarians' but assimilated croatians?

[Duke]

It is true. Gypsies often have this surname in hungary, but not rare among ethnic hungarians either. There are also gypsies with the surname 'Németh'(german) or 'Magyar'. Horváth definitely doesn't indicate croatian origins

precisely, Nemeth, is person from germany, we say njemac for german which is similar

[Borna]

pa krivo piše, to su prezime djelili mađari, mogli su dat i njemcima, i tunguzijcima, a ti ljudi kod čakovca su blizu granice sa mađarskom, znači da je bilo migracije tamo-vamo


To je sigurno mađarsko prezime, pa nema smisla da se hrvat u hrvatskoj preziva Horvath :D

Imaš pravo, čudno mi je to malo kak su Cigani poskrbili to za sebe.

[Borna]

precisely, Nemeth, is person from germany, we say njemac for german which is similar

Its nearly same in all Slavic languages, i heard a theory that it means Muted (Nijem) since Slavs could not understand them.

[Duke]

I am anti racist, I believe gypsies are good people, they are just poor and live in bad conditions.

Do you still maintain your view that people with 'Horváth' surname in hungary aren't 'real hungarians' but assimilated croatians?

no they are not croatians, nor hungarians, moslty roma, also they came from Čakovec county, and there is stil Roma population there, and they have surname Horvath among them.

Horvath that are not Roma, probably have some diferent ancestry, some of them are designated as Croats, and some of them as Hungarians, probably they are neither in true origin

[Antimage]

no they are not croatians, nor hungarians, moslty roma, also they cam from around Čakovec, and there is stil Roma population there, and they have surname Horvath among them.

Horvath that are not Roma, probably have some diferent ancestry, some of them are designated as Croats, and some of them as Hungarians, probably they are neither

according to wikipedia there are 200.000 people in hungary with this surname. 50.000 of them may be roma, not more.

[Duke]

Its nearly same in all Slavic languages, i heard a theory that it means Muted (Nijem) since Slavs could not understand them.


Probably, Njemac=mute

[Antimage]

Probably, Njemac=mute

'néma' means mute in hungarian :)

[Leto]

Its nearly same in all Slavic languages, i heard a theory that it means Muted (Nijem) since Slavs could not understand them.
It's the official and confirmed etymology. Немец = немой. Нем exists as well, it's the short form of the adjective.

[Jana]

Well Zlatko Horvat, Mila Horvat and many others with surname Horvat are Croats. I doesn't have to mean anything and as I said before, surname doesn't determine someone's origin. If someone is feeling Hungarian, living there of course he is Hungarian. Some Horvats maybe have distant or recent Croatian ancestry, maybe they have none. Who knows, I just said that literal translation of surname means Croat. Nothing unusual if Roma people have foreign surnames, many Askhenazi Jews have German or Slavic surnames too.

[Leto]

'néma' means mute in hungarian :)
A Slavic loanword. As far as I'm concerned, Hungarian has a lot of old Slavic borrowings.

[Duke]

Well Zlatko Horvat, Mila Horvat and many others with surname Horvat are Croats. I doesn't have to mean anything and as I said before, surname doesn't determine someone's origin. If someone is feeling Hungarian, living there of course he is Hungarian. Some Horvats maybe have distant or recent Croatian ancestry, maybe they have none. Who knows, I just said that literal translation of surname means Croat. Nothing unusual if Roma people have foreign surnames, many Askhenazi Jews have German or Slavic surnames too.

Oni jesu hrvati danas, al vjerojatno nisu po porjeklu, mogu bit, al veća je vjerojatnost da nisu

[Jana]

a moguće tko zna, nova informacija svakako

[Corvus]

Well Zlatko Horvat, Mila Horvat and many others with surname Horvat are Croats. I doesn't have to mean anything and as I said before, surname doesn't determine someone's origin. I f someone is feeling Hungarian, living there of course he is Hungarian. Some Horvats maybe have distant or recent Croatian ancestry, maybe they have none. Who knows, I just said that literla translation of surname means Croat. Nothing unusual if Roma people have foreign surnames, many Askhenazi Jews have German or Slavic surnames too.

I agree. Surnames do not necessarily indicate the origin. Its something many people tend to overestimate.
The maternal line counts as much as the paternal one

[Beit El]

Swarthoid gypsy scum. Why is she in Austria?

[Duke]

a moguće tko zna, nova informacija svakako


U nas Hrvat nije nikad bio Horvat, to je iz mađarskog jezika, što znači da su svi horvati u jedno vrijeme došli iz hrvatske u mađarsku, nevezano koje nacionalnosti, al očito su došli bez prezimena, i da su se u nekom kasnijem periodu vratili

[Antimage]

Well Zlatko Horvat, Mila Horvat and many others with surname Horvat are Croats. I doesn't have to mean anything and as I said before, surname doesn't determine someone's origin. If someone is feeling Hungarian, living there of course he is Hungarian. Some Horvats maybe have distant or recent Croatian ancestry, maybe they have none. Who knows, I just said that literal translation of surname means Croat. Nothing unusual if Roma people have foreign surnames, many Askhenazi Jews have German or Slavic surnames too.

don't you calls yourselves 'hrvat' in croatian? horvat is an old word or something? we call croatians 'horvát'

[Antimage]

A Slavic loanword. As far as I'm concerned, Hungarian has a lot of old Slavic borrowings.

yes.

[Duke]

don't you calls yourselves 'hrvat' in croatian? horvat is an old word or something?

yes, hrvat=croat in croatian

It can also mean wrestle

[Empecinado]

I think with Gypsies there was a some sort of "one drop rule", if some non-Gypsy mixed with a Gypsy their descendants would be considered Gypsies too and assimilated to the Gypsy population. These are another examples:

http://media.grupojoly.com//cache//0001462187_230x230_jpg000.jpg

http://www.andalucesdiario.es/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/foto1.jpg

https://desaparecido1007.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/marcela_fdez_fdezg.jpg

http://cloud1.todocoleccion.net/tc/2011/01/08/23899621.jpg

[Jana]

don't you calls yourselves 'hrvat' in croatian? horvat is an old word or something?

Yes we call ourself Hrvat, Hrvati in plural :) But Duke says Horvat is not Croatian surname , but it came from Hungary. I didn't Know that, he seems knowledgable. There was lot of mixing in Pannonian plain, it is complicated for me to grasp:p

[Leto]

I think with Gypsies there was a some sort of "one drop rule", if some non-Gypsy mixed with a Gypsy their descendants would be considered Gypsies too and assimilated to the Gypsy population. These are another examples:
Hm, they surely pass as white. At least in my eyes.

[Antimage]

I think with Gypsies there was a some sort of "one drop rule", if some non-Gypsy mixed with a Gypsy their descendants would be considered Gypsies too and assimilated to the Gypsy population. These are another examples:

http://media.grupojoly.com//cache//0001462187_230x230_jpg000.jpg

http://www.andalucesdiario.es/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/foto1.jpg

https://desaparecido1007.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/marcela_fdez_fdezg.jpg

http://cloud1.todocoleccion.net/tc/2011/01/08/23899621.jpg

it is true. mixing between low class hungarian and gypsies isn't rare. their children always become gypsy. which is why there are some light skinned gypsy who don't look south asian at all

[Antimage]

Yes we call ourself Hrvat, Hrvati in plural :) But Duke says Horvat is not Croatian surname , but it came from Hungary. I didn't Know that, he seems knowledgable. There was lot of mixing in Pannonian plain, it is complicated for me to grasp:p

i never understood why there are croatians with a seemingly hungarian surname,cuz croatia have small ethnic hungarian population

[Leto]

it is true. mixing between low class hungarian and gypsies isn't rare. their children always become gypsy. which is why there are some light skinned gypsy who don't look south asian at all
So it is not Gypsies assimilating into the Hungarian population, but the other way around?

[Antimage]

So it is not Gypsies assimilating into the Hungarian population, but the other way around?

yes. it happens in other countries too

[Duke]

So it is not Gypsies assimilating into the Hungarian population, but the other way around?

it was mostly back and forth in north Croatia, since we were in union with Hungary

[Leto]

yes. it happens in other countries too
Well, that's bad. Gypsies are nowhere near European to me. I mean real brown Gypsies, not like the people in Empecinado's post.

[Alenka]

Horvath that are not Roma, probably have some diferent ancestry, some of them are designated as Croats, and some of them as Hungarians, probably they are neither in true origin
The surname Horvat and various versions of it (Horvath, Hrovat, Chorvat, Horbat,...) are common in Slovakia, Hungary, and Slovenia. All of these countries are located between Chrobatia (proto-Croatia) and the cotemporary country Croatia. Is it a coincidence? I don't think so. Personally, I don't think these surnames necessarily denote descendance strictly from within the modern country of Croatia. It could be remnants from the migration of Byelohravati, the Slavic tribe coming from Chrobatia. They are one of the tribes that migrated from Poland southwards. They are ancestors of cotemporary Croats, but I think these surnames prove that not all of them migrated to Croatia, perhaps some of them settled the area between the two regions as well.
The reason why it also exists among Gypsies could be simply because they have absorbed some Slavic ancestry through the centuries.
http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/chrobat.jpg

[Jana]

i never understood why there are croatians with a seemingly hungarian surname,cuz croatia have small ethnic hungarian population

There is surname Kovač (Kovacs in Hungarian), common especially in Northern Croatia, which exists in both countries. Where does it somes from no idea, but seems we share some surnames.
Kovač means blacksmith in Croatian though.

[Empecinado]

Hm, they surely pass as white. At least in my eyes.

Yes, though don't need to say that they represent a small minority.


it is true. mixing between low class hungarian and gypsies isn't rare. their children always become gypsy. which is why there are some light skinned gypsy who don't look south asian at all

More or less the same here, though depends. If the mixed people live within the Gypsy community, they will be become Gypsies. But if they don't, they will become "kinkis" or "kinkilleros" that means mixed and are very Gypsy culturally influenced. These are Kinkis:

http://cuatrostatic-a.akamaihd.net/conexion-samanta/programastemporada-06/t06xp08-quinquis/Ivan-dan-bien-fugas-robos_MDSVID20140218_0195_17.jpg

http://derayadas.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/1.jpg

http://www.colchonero.com/media/galeria/4/9/9/6/1/n_atletico_de_madrid_los_entrenadores-881699.jpg

[Duke]

The surname Horvat and various versions of it (Horvath, Hrovat, Chorvat, Horbat,...) are common in Slovakia, Hungary, and Slovenia. All of these countries are located between the old 'White Croatia' and the cotemporary country Croatia. Is it a coincidence? I don't think so. Personally, I don't think it necessarily denotes descendance strictly from within the modern country of Croatia, but rather from the Slavic tribe known as Byelohravati, who at the time were settled in White Croatia aka Chrobatia, which is an area in cotemporary Poland. Byelohravati are one of the tribes that migrated from Poland southwards. They are ancestors of cotemporary Croats, but not only theirs. I think these surnames prove that not all of them migrated to Croatia, they settled the area between the two regions.
The reason why it also exists among Gypsies could be simply because they have absorbed some Slavic ancestry through the centuries.
http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/chrobat.jpg

Croats got surnames in 12th century AD, before that it was clan names, which transfered into surnames

Also, it exist among gypsies, because hungarians gave it to gypsies without surnames who came from Croatian Banovina.
Not only gypsies, mind you, it could be others like Slovenians, Serbs, Vlachs.. etc

[Leto]

Yes, though don't need to say that they represent a small minority.


More or less the same here, though depends. If the mixed people live within the Gypsy community, they will be become Gypsies. But if they don't, they will become "kinkis" or "kinkilleros" that means mixed and are very Gypsy culturally influenced. These are Kinkis:

These look different from the Spanish.

[Duke]

There is surname Kovač (Kovacs in Hungarian), common especially in Northern Croatia, which exists in both countries. Where does it somes from no idea, but seems we share some surnames.
Kovač means blacksmith in Croatian though.

Better to say Smith, Kovač=Smith

Hungarians took some slavic words into their vocabulary, i believe Kovacs is Smith in Hungarian as well

A surname which came from occupation

[Empecinado]

These look different from the Spanish.

Yes, these would be easily identified as "agitanados" (Gypsified) or "kinkis". Usually marginal people and prone to crime.

[Antimage]

There is surname Kovač (Kovacs in Hungarian), common especially in Northern Croatia, which exists in both countries. Where does it somes from no idea, but seems we share some surnames.
Kovač means blacksmith in Croatian though.

it means blacksmith in hungarian,too. So it is both hungarian and croatian surname

[TheForeigner]

Its nearly same in all Slavic languages, i heard a theory that it means Muted (Nijem) since Slavs could not understand them.

In Romanian they are also called ''Neamt/Nemti'', besides the less folksy and more Latin ''German/Germani''.

[TheForeigner]

Croats were on the Vienna side, but it was mistake we realized pretty soon, since we got backstabbed by Vienna, while only nation which got something were Serbs, their support was rewarded really well, it was the point when Hungarians lost Vojvodina on a long term, but they did not realize it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avram_Iancu Well most Romanians or almost all that thought were also on Vienna side, under the command of Avram Iancu or ''Crăișorul Munților'' ("The Little Prince of the Mountains"), who gave the Hungarians quite the fight. Well, they were fighting to get better treatement for Romanians actually and get minority rights at least, I guess. Towards the end, they negotiated with Hungarians, but only a truce came of it and it was too late for the Magyar revolutionaries, who got crushed by the Habsburg and Russian forces.

[TheForeigner]

In Romania, many mixed people assimilate or at least try to integrate into the general Romanian population and lie about their ethnic origin trying to claim pure Romanian origin. They are still more often swine and look different too, but many stupid Romanians believe them anyway or don't openly challenge their lies at least.

[Roy]

Surprisingly light pigmented for a Gypsy. Looks South European by coloration only at least. Could pass as Romanian and Italian easily.

Many Gypsies look like that because this is what makes up most of their ancestry actually. They differ in amount of Indian ancestry much.

[Leto]

Many Gypsies look like that because this is what makes up most of their ancestry actually. They differ in amount of Indian ancestry much.
Well, those who look like her can be absorbed, they wouldn't change the population of an Eastern European country.

[Borna]

Well, those who look like her can be absorbed, they wouldn't change the population of an Eastern European country.

These hidden gypos are somehow spotted by regular people. Marriages with gypos are very rare , since 90% of the people feel strong disgust and hatred toward them.
I remember when i was a kid, and i did something wrong my grandma would say " Gypos will come and kidnap you" :D As well she learned me never to speak with them when i was a kid, a habit i maintain today as well.

[solaris]

These hidden gypos are somehow spotted by regular people. Marriages with gypos are very rare , since 90% of the people feel strong disgust and hatred toward them.
I remember when i was a kid, and i did something wrong my grandma would say " Gypos will come and kidnap you" :D As well she learned me never to speak with them when i was a kid, a habit i maintain today as well.

any other interessing childhood stories to tell? my grandma told me the same, instead of "gypos" she mentioned "pontid/baltid/alpine burgenlandkroaten" though.

[blogen]

Yes, she doesn't look like your average Gypsy. She must be heavily Euro-admixed.

She is a typical Hungarian Gypsy based on her skin color and character.

http://nepszava.hu/picture/34062/normal/135/00135730.jpeg
http://hirportal.sikerado.hu/images/kep/201111/roma_osztondij.jpg
http://jrsz.hu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/parlament_jrsz.jpg

[Empecinado]

These hidden gypos are somehow spotted by regular people. Marriages with gypos are very rare , since 90% of the people feel strong disgust and hatred toward them.
I remember when i was a kid, and i did something wrong my grandma would say " Gypos will come and kidnap you" :D As well she learned me never to speak with them when i was a kid, a habit i maintain today as well.

My grandma said me the same xD I remember I was 5 years old and told me that if a Gitano ever entered at home was needed to "throw him a chair". There was a time when they came at night to rob at homes of old people, and she slept with a hammer under the pillow.

[blogen]

These hidden gypos are somehow spotted by regular people. Marriages with gypos are very rare , since 90% of the people feel strong disgust and hatred toward them.
I remember when i was a kid, and i did something wrong my grandma would say " Gypos will come and kidnap you" :D As well she learned me never to speak with them when i was a kid, a habit i maintain today as well.

The Gypsy-Hungarian intermarriage is one of the most common thing in Hungary, basically 10% of the Hungarians have Gypsy ancestor (3% of them -30% from this 10%- are ethnically Gypsy) besides the others.

[Borna]

any other interessing childhood stories to tell? my grandma told me the same, instead of "gypos" she mentioned "pontid/baltid/alpine burgenlandkroaten" though.

Gypo are you trying to get my attention ? I am sorry i do not speak with Ottoman leftovers like yourself.

[Borna]

The Gypsy-Hungarian intermarriage is one of the most common thing in Hungary, basically 10% of the Hungarians have Gypsy ancestor (3% of them -30% from this 10%- are ethnically Gypsy) besides the others.

Such thing is non-existent in Croatia, i do not know anyone who is married with a gypsy.

[blogen]

Better to say Smith, Kovač=Smith
Hungarians took some slavic words into their vocabulary, i believe Kovacs is Smith in Hungarian as well
A surname which came from occupation

Yes, the name is Hungarian, but the word -kovács- is South-Slav, presumably Pannonslav origin (kovač) as the majority of the Slavonic loandwords in the Hungarian. This was the short story:

Slavonic kovač --> Hungarian kovács --> Hungarian name Kovács

or for example:

Slavonic hrvat --> horvát --> Hungarian name Horvát or Horváth

[Mortimer]

she is not from croatia she said her relatives are from hungary and the one of her grandmothers was from germany but most of her relatives are from hungary, she is not from croatia. and she is cute despite the lighter skin her roma features are still visible, im also not dark brown like "the stereotype gypsies".

[Mortimer]

she would be a good girlfriend for me though

[solaris]

I am sorry i do not speak with Ottoman leftovers like yourself.

and what are you doing now?

[blogen]

she is not from croatia she said her relatives are from hungary and the one of her grandmothers was from germany but most of her relatives are from hungary, she is not from croatia. and she is cute despite the lighter skin her roma features are still visible, im also not dark brown like "the stereotype gypsies".

Yes, she is a Hungarian Gypsy. The majority of the Austrian Gypsies are Hungarian Gypsy and the Horváth name is a very common Gypsy name in Hungary, but the name is not Gypsy origin.

[Mark]

Looks more dinarized alpine-pontid + some turanid to me than anything. I would not think she was Roma off the bat.

[Borna]

Yes, she is a Hungarian Gypsy. The majority of the Austrian Gypsies are Hungarian Gypsy and the Horváth name is a very common Gypsy name in Hungary, but the name is not Gypsy origin.

How come they adopted such last name ? I know for example in Serbia they adopted large number of Serbian surnames,is it same in Hungary ?

[blogen]

Such thing is non-existent in Croatia, i do not know anyone who is married with a gypsy.

Yes, I understand this, the Balkanite Gypsy is a very different thing.

[Leto]

These hidden gypos are somehow spotted by regular people. Marriages with gypos are very rare , since 90% of the people feel strong disgust and hatred toward them.
I remember when i was a kid, and i did something wrong my grandma would say " Gypos will come and kidnap you" :D As well she learned me never to speak with them when i was a kid, a habit i maintain today as well.
Well, I was also taught not to mess with them. They are said to be able to hypnotize you and steal your money.:)

[Leto]

She is a typical Hungarian Gypsy based on her skin color and character.
Typical? I didn't know they were that light in Hungary. Do you think they can be absorbed without much damage to Hungarian population?

[Borna]

Well, I was also taught not to mess with them. They are said to be able to hypnotize you and steal your money.:)

I haven't seen much of them in Russia, and even less in Ukraine (I was living in Western Ukraine for nearly a year).

[Mortimer]

Looks more dinarized alpine-pontid + some turanid to me than anything. I would not think she was Roma off the bat.

to me she looks roma just that she has lighter skin. her eyes are very gypsy and her hair

[Mark]

to me she looks roma just that she has lighter skin. her eyes are very gypsy and her hair

Okay, you know better than myself. I am just going by my limited exposure to Roma types that seem more exotic than her.

[blogen]

How come they adopted such last name ? I know for example in Serbia they adopted large number of Serbian surnames,is it same in Hungary ?

Their ancestors presumably were Gypsies from Slavonia. The Gypsy surmanes indicate the occupation or the geographical ancestry. For example this 1777 register from the settled Gypsies in Jászság (the nomadism was not a Hungarian Gypsy habit since the end of the medieval times), the ethnical surnames of the owner's families:

Rácz: 38,5%
Horváth: 10,8%
Oláh: 2,4%
Tót: 1,2%

[Leto]

I haven't seen much of them in Russia, and even less in Ukraine (I was living in Western Ukraine for nearly a year).
They are visible in big cities. Especially in Moscow. They usually beg in underpasses and subway trains.
http://www.e1.ru/news/images/new/383496/images/%D0%A6%D1%8B%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5%20lenta%20ru_ 400x267.jpg

[blogen]

Typical? I didn't know they were that light in Hungary. Do you think they can be absorbed without much damage to Hungarian population?

What demage?

[Mortimer]

Okay, you know better than myself. I am just going by my limited exposure to Roma types that seem more exotic than her.

she is less exotic then stereotype romas, but her roma is still visible.

[Empecinado]

Yes, she is a Hungarian Gypsy. The majority of the Austrian Gypsies are Hungarian Gypsy and the Horváth name is a very common Gypsy name in Hungary, but the name is not Gypsy origin.

At least here, there is not even a single surname of Gypsy origin, eventhough there are surnames very common among them. Curiously, many of them were of noble origin (Montoya, Heredia, Amaya, Cortés, Vargas...) and today are related to Gypsies because around 90% of people who have them is Gypsy or Gypsy admixed.

[Mortimer]

or lets say a mixed stereotype gypsy european could easily produce such a phenotype as i know half gypsies who have her skin colour and look as much exotic as her but if she told us she is something else and we didnt know she is gypsy we could believe it too

[Leto]

What demage?
Well, I mean Hungarians would get darker and more Gypoid. Do you disagree?

[blogen]

Well, I mean Hungarians would get darker and more Gypoid. Do you disagree?

Yes, but this is not demage in Hungary, the average Hungarian is not so light as a Russian. If they would be Romanians, then we would be worried, since there is not racial question in Hungary, we do not have racial narrative about himself, only ethnical.

[Antimage]

Typical? I didn't know they were that light in Hungary. Do you think they can be absorbed without much damage to Hungarian population?

she's definitely lighter than the avarage. this is how the avarage gypsy in hungary look (start watching at 3:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFMg27DdDPw

[Hungarian_master]

Asian alpine altered by Taurid maybe. I think she could pass as Afghan ? Croatian surname though .....:p

But the Horváth is common surname in the Gypsies.