Stephen Hawking warns against contacting aliens over invasion fears

[Liffrea]

The physicist said extraterrestrials almost certainly exist on other planets.

Professor Hawking, 68, an expert on the universe who wrote A Brief History of Time, warns that jealous aliens could one day want to steal Earth's resources.

And, in a scenario similar to Hollywood blockbuster movie Independence Day, he fears contact with them might be catastrophic.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/04/26/unwelcome-to-earth-115875-22212694/

[Svanhild]

I don't want aliens from other continents and aliens from other worlds even more so. :wink

[Cato]

"He said with 100 billion galaxies, each with hundreds of millions of stars, Earth is highly unlikely to be the only planet with life: "The numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational," he said. "The real challenge is to work out what aliens might be like.""

Unless it was intended to be so by God(s) (i.e. Fermi's Paradox, Rare Earth hypothesis, writings of Teilhard de Chardin, et cetera).

Go back to playing poker on the holodeck with the crew of the Enterprise Dr. Hawking, you're kind of an irrelevant figure nowadays, especially considering that you're quoting the plot from a horrible movie called Independence Day as a potentiality for Earth's future. Art Bell might have a guest spot for you on his next show. :cool:

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Pallamedes
Unless it was intended to be so by God(s) (i.e. Fermi's Paradox, Rare Earth hypothesis, writings of Teilhard de Chardin, et cetera).

Personally I’m sceptical about extraterrestrial intelligence as well, if it does exist it is, in my opinion, extremely rare….I doubt there is much in our galaxy and I suspect we may well be the only one’s (which is good, more for us).

However if Hawking’s is right he is probably also correct in that they will be a threat…..if we accept that life pretty much behaves the same anywhere i.e. propagation of itself, which is almost uniformly at the expense of others, then we are probably going to have to remove who ever is sitting on valuable lumps of rocks.

In the future there is only war…..

[Eldritch]

However if Hawking’s is right he is probably also correct in that they will be a threat…..if we accept that life pretty much behaves the same anywhere i.e. propagation of itself, which is almost uniformly at the expense of others, then we are probably going to have to remove who ever is sitting on valuable lumps of rocks.



The thing to take into the consideration here is that even by the most optimistic estimations about the abundance of intelligence in the universe, said valuable lumps of rocks are much more abundant than the hypothetical intelligent civilizations living on them. A race that has developed interstellar travel has no need to attack or colonise other planets anymore.

[Austin]

The thing to take into the consideration here is that even by the most optimistic estimations about the abundance of intelligence in the universe, said valuable lumps of rocks are much more abundant than the hypothetical intelligent civilizations living on them. A race that has developed interstellar travel has no need to attack or colonise other planets anymore.

Yes I agree with this. Its fun to think in Hollywood evil alien terms but realistically speaking...if a species is so advanced that it can load its entire society/race/culture onto a ship and fly around the galaxy for hundreds perhaps thousands of years, why would that amazingly advanced species not opt to just find new, pristine planets that are empty, why travel all the way to earth for a confrontation when they are that advanced?

Think how much resources it would take even an advanced species to convert their whole species to an interstellar ship existence....wouldn't it make more sense for them to just find ways to further their own resources rather than extol the effort and resources to attempt to colonize other planets?

It seems to me that the whole fly around with their whole world in a ship carries to much inherent risk that we aren't taking into consideration...what if that ship is somehow destroyed? Why would a super-advanced alien race put all their eggs in one basket like that, leaving themselves open to destruction every time they attempt a colonization/harvest of another planet?

[Cato]

Personally I’m sceptical about extraterrestrial intelligence as well, if it does exist it is, in my opinion, extremely rare….I doubt there is much in our galaxy and I suspect we may well be the only one’s (which is good, more for us).

However if Hawking’s is right he is probably also correct in that they will be a threat…..if we accept that life pretty much behaves the same anywhere i.e. propagation of itself, which is almost uniformly at the expense of others, then we are probably going to have to remove who ever is sitting on valuable lumps of rocks.

In the future there is only war…..

I believe that ours is a designer universe and, that quite literally, the universe is ours for the taking. Such an anthropocentric position doesn't sit well with people who say that it's statistically impossible for mankind to be alone in the universe and that life flourishes around the cosmos to such a degree that our Earth is, as per the idea of the Mediocrity Principle, not destined for some sort of cosmic greatness. Pale blue dot and all. :rolleyes:

Such a view might be considered a parochial relic of the dark ages, but it fits in with my intuition.

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

The caveat being the word God, which implies a designer of the heavens and the skies. I don't doubt the mechanics of the universe's workings (even if I can't really grasp them too well- physics drove me nuts in college :D); I simply don't believe in blind force directing the universe. So it goes with E.T., who I believe isn't there by design- just as man is here by design.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Austin
why travel all the way to earth for a confrontation when they are that advanced?

Well they wouldn’t specifically come to earth just for a ruck but the rate of progression of colonisation means that they would arrive here at some point and, indeed, the fact that nobody has in the ten billion years our galaxy has existed is good evidence to suggest that there is nobody else out there (unless we are the aliens…).

If/when humans begin to colonise other stars we could (at sub light) colonise the galaxy in little over a million years (a drop in the ocean time wise). All worlds will be finite in resources, eventually we would end up fighting who ever else there is for valuable real estate.

[Groenewolf]

First of all Hawkings is not necessarily correct that contact with other intelligent species might be bad for us. Not all contact was between would-be-conquers and would-be-subjected. It would all depend on the motives of those we make contact with.


I believe that ours is a designer universe and, that quite literally, the universe is ours for the taking.

Then you would probably love the novel Ironstorm (http://www.amazon.com/Ironstorm-Robert-Blumetti/dp/059520175X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272381432&sr=1-1)

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Pallamedes
I simply don't believe in blind force directing the universe. So it goes with E.T., who I believe isn't there by design- just as man is here by design.

Personally I just believe that intelligence is just exceedingly rare and that advanced civilisations do not last all that long.

Sticking around long enough to get off our own world will be humanity’s biggest achievement and the signs aren’t all that good.

[Charles U. Farley]

Go back to playing poker on the holodeck with the crew of the Enterprise Dr. Hawking, you're kind of an irrelevant figure nowadays, especially considering that you're quoting the plot from a horrible movie called Independence Day as a potentiality for Earth's future. Art Bell might have a guest spot for you on his next show. :cool:

Apparently Dr. Hawking is in stiff competition with Michio Kaku for the 'Top Pop' Scientist position now that Carl Sagan is out of the way. :p

[Cato]

Then you would probably love the novel Ironstorm (http://www.amazon.com/Ironstorm-Robert-Blumetti/dp/059520175X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272381432&sr=1-1)

The plot of the novel that you linked to reminds me of the follow-up to Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" novels, when the galaxy-spanning Foundation (or the second empire?) is covertly invaded by a race of seemingly hostile, non-human senients. :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Foundation_Series

Earth is forgotten as the homeworld of humanity, about 10,000 to 15,000 years in the future, and a galaxy-spanning empire rules. After the fall of the galactic empire, the Foundation (an empire of scholars rather than monarchists) becomes the dominant galactic body, governed by the ideals of psychohistory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)

[Bloodeagle]

By not contacting aliens for fear over invasion sounds a bit like, “hiding their head in the sand, like an ostrich”, forgive the metaphor.

If there are advanced alien species, who is to say that they don't know about us, have not visited in the past, and that they may have had a hand in our evolutionary leap from ape men of Africa to modern man!

[poiuytrewq0987]

I don't want aliens from other continents and aliens from other worlds even more so. :wink

What if Aliens off-world look like a bunch of Nordic Gods? :D:D

[poiuytrewq0987]

By not contacting aliens for fear over invasion sounds a bit like, “hiding their head in the sand, like an ostrich”, forgive the metaphor.

If there are advanced alien species, who is to say that they don't know about us, have not visited in the past, and that they may have had a hand in our evolutionary leap from ape men of Africa to modern man!

And what if they are just waiting for us to contact them because that's when they'll deem us to be advanced enough to be in regular communication with them? :p

[Cato]

By not contacting aliens for fear over invasion sounds a bit like, “hiding their head in the sand, like an ostrich”, forgive the metaphor.

If there are advanced alien species, who is to say that they don't know about us, have not visited in the past, and that they may have had a hand in our evolutionary leap from ape men of Africa to modern man!

Chariots of the Gods. Stargate.

Sounds like more sci-fi.

[Jägerstaffel]

I have to say Hawking is going out on a limb here. There is little reason to believe that anything we're doing in the insurmountable vastness of space would even be noticed (puny radio wave signals) by a more advanced species or that any species with the ability to reach our planet would 1.) need the type of resources that we have or 2.) be unable to find our resources elsewhere in the universe.

Besides, think about how insignificant we are in comparison.

http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/image002.jpg

[Bloodeagle]

Chariots of the Gods. Stargate.

Sounds like more sci-fi.

Sounds open minded towards the race of Zeus ala Clash of the Titans:D

[Cato]

Sounds open minded towards [b]the race of Zeus[b] ala Clash of the Titans:D

A.K.A. mankind, who was created by Zeus. :)

[poiuytrewq0987]

I have to say Hawking is going out on a limb here. There is little reason to believe that anything we're doing in the insurmountable vastness of space would even be noticed (puny radio wave signals) by a more advanced species or that any species with the ability to reach our planet would 1.) need the type of resources that we have or 2.) be unable to find our resources elsewhere in the universe.

Besides, think about how insignificant we are in comparison.

http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/image002.jpg

Have you ever played EVE Online? Yeah, Jupiter compared to the rest of the universe? Pretty damn insignificant. :D

[Cato]

By Jove we live in a rather large, underdeveloped universe. :)

[Svipdag]

Although I have often disagreed with Hawking's cosmological views which have an underlying assumption that just because a theoretical model is mathematically and physically valid, it MUST be true, this time, I tend to agree with him.

I do not accept the incredibly egocentric view, supported by some religions, that this whole, incredibly vast cosmos exists just for us, that we "naked apes" inhabiting one tiny planet of one mediocre star are the most important things in this vast cosmos. It certainly does not appear reasonable that the life-forms of this planet should be unique in the universe.

On the other hand, the statement made by some exobiologists that, given the necessary materials and conditions, life must inevitably arise is not a statement of fact, but of faith. [BTW, exobiology is the only science, the subject matter of which is not known to exist.]

However, though life may be fairly commonplace on planets having suitable conditions, there is no necessity whatsoever that it should be INTELLIGENT life. Intelligence does not necessarily have high survival value. For about
140,000,000 years, the dominant life forms of the fauna of this planet were of very low intelligence.

Organisms having claws, fangs, armour, and/or high speed of locomotion have no need of intelligence. The dinosaurs were magnificently well-adapted to the ecological niches which they occupied. The hubris and egotism of the human race never cease to amaze me. I have heard it said and seen it written that, because they became extinct, the dinosaurs were a failure ! THEY were dominant for 140,000,000 years; something at least remotely human-like has been here for 4,500,000 years, and THEY were a failure ? HAH !

Intelligence is of survival value only to relatively slow-moving, unarmoured organisms devoid of claws and carnivourous dentition. Such organisms are at a great disadvantage in competition with gigantic fast-moving carnivores.
Even given intelligence, they could not have competed with the dinosaurs.
The only mammals contemporary with the dinosaurs were the size of shrews and mice.

It was not until the dinosaurs became extinct that the mammals could dominate Earth's fauna, and not until some very large and dangerous mammals had failed to adapt to changing environmental conditions, that a versatile intelligent primate could emerge. Intelligent life can appear only on a planet where there is no competition from extremely large fast-moving carnivores.

The sequence of favourable events which permitted the emergence of intelligent life on this planet is not very probable and is unlikely to have been replicated on many, if any, other planets. Still, intelligent life-forms MAY have appeared on other planets elsewhere in this galaxy.

It is certainly possible that one or more such species might have developed space travel by now and also possible, though much less so, that they might have solved the problems of interstellar travel. There is no evidence that they even exist, much less that such aliens have visited or are likely to visit this planet.

IF they should, how would they behave ? We have no way whatsoever of knowing. It is useless to speculate about alien psychology and behaviour.
The only standard by which we speculate about alien behaviour is that of our own species. Applying that standard does not yield encouraging conclusions.
Technological superiority does NOT imply moral superiority. Indeed, our own experience implies quite the reverse.

Every instance of an encounter between a technologically advanced culture and a less technologically advanced one in OUR history has ended disastrously for the technologically inferior culture. It has almost always resulted in exploitation, enslavement, or extermination .

PERHAPS an alien culture would not behave as badly as we have, but there is absolutely NO reason to assume that it would be less malevolent than ours, much less benevolent. Should we detect an alien culture which might have developed interstellar travel, our wisest course would be to lie low and be as inconspicuous as possible. Were they to discover us, WE DO NOT KNOW HOW THEY WOULD BEHAVE and there is no point in trying to second-guess them.

I know, this is xenophobia. IMO, xenophobia is nothing but common sense.

[Jägerstaffel]

Although I have often disagreed with Hawking's cosmological views which have an underlying assumption that just because a theoretical model is mathematically and physically valid, it MUST be true, this time, I tend to agree with him.

I do not accept the incredibly egocentric view, supported by some religions, that this whole, incredibly vast cosmos exists just for us, that we "naked apes" inhabiting one tiny planet of one mediocre star are the most important things in this vast cosmos. It certainly does not appear reasonable that the life-forms of this planet should be unique in the universe.

On the other hand, the statement made by some exobiologists that, given the necessary materials and conditions, life must inevitably arise is not a statement of fact, but of faith. [BTW, exobiology is the only science, the subject matter of which is not known to exist.]

However, though life may be fairly commonplace on planets having suitable conditions, there is no necessity whatsoever that it should be INTELLIGENT life. Intelligence does not necessarily have high survival value. For about
140,000,000 years, the dominant life forms of the fauna of this planet were of very low intelligence.

Organisms having claws, fangs, armour, and/or high speed of locomotion have no need of intelligence. The dinosaurs were magnificently well-adapted to the ecological niches which they occupied. The hubris and egotism of the human race never cease to amaze me. I have heard it said and seen it written that, because they became extinct, the dinosaurs were a failure ! THEY were dominant for 140,000,000 years; something at least remotely human-like has been here for 4,500,000 years, and THEY were a failure ? HAH !

Intelligence is of survival value only to relatively slow-moving, unarmoured organisms devoid of claws and carnivourous dentition. Such organisms are at a great disadvantage in competition with gigantic fast-moving carnivores.
Even given intelligence, they could not have competed with the dinosaurs.
The only mammals contemporary with the dinosaurs were the size of shrews and mice.

It was not until the dinosaurs became extinct that the mammals could dominate Earth's fauna, and not until some very large and dangerous mammals had failed to adapt to changing environmental conditions, that a versatile intelligent primate could emerge. Intelligent life can appear only on a planet where there is no competition from extremely large fast-moving carnivores.

The sequence of favourable events which permitted the emergence of intelligent life on this planet is not very probable and is unlikely to have been replicated on many, if any, other planets. Still, intelligent life-forms MAY have appeared on other planets elsewhere in this galaxy.

It is certainly possible that one or more such species might have developed space travel by now and also possible, though much less so, that they might have solved the problems of interstellar travel. There is no evidence that they even exist, much less that such aliens have visited or are likely to visit this planet.

IF they should, how would they behave ? We have no way whatsoever of knowing. It is useless to speculate about alien psychology and behaviour.
The only standard by which we speculate about alien behaviour is that of our own species. Applying that standard does not yield encouraging conclusions.
Technological superiority does NOT imply moral superiority. Indeed, our own experience implies quite the reverse.

Every instance of an encounter between a technologically advanced culture and a less technologically advanced one in OUR history has ended disastrously for the technologically inferior culture. It has almost always resulted in exploitation, enslavement, or extermination .

PERHAPS an alien culture would not behave as badly as we have, but there is absolutely NO reason to assume that it would be less malevolent than ours, much less benevolent. Should we detect an alien culture which might have developed interstellar travel, our wisest course would be to lie low and be as inconspicuous as possible. Were they to discover us, WE DO NOT KNOW HOW THEY WOULD BEHAVE and there is no point in trying to second-guess them.

I know, this is xenophobia. IMO, xenophobia is nothing but common sense.

This is all well and good, but I feel Hawking's argument that alien life forms would need our resources is weak and an assumption on their behavior as well. That being said, I don't think attracting their attention would be smart - if they do exist - but I'm inclined to believe our insignificance would keep us from being first on the list of targets for an intergalactic armada bent on taking our meager resources.

http://blackmaps.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/galactus.jpg

But then again, maybe Galactus would just devour us.

[Cato]

http://www.robotmonkeylab.com/IRAA%20DVD%20cover%20art.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxjzia0zaq1qax6nao1_400.jpg

:D

[Cato]

This is all well and good, but I feel Hawking's argument that alien life forms would need our resources is weak and an assumption on their behavior as well. That being said, I don't think attracting their attention would be smart - if they do exist - but I'm inclined to believe our insignificance would keep us from being first on the list of targets for an intergalactic armada bent on taking our meager resources.

http://blackmaps.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/galactus.jpg

But then again, maybe Galactus would just devour us.

Or this guy.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/Kankurou_1/page2.jpg

[Óttar]

Looked at from the perspective of the universe, our planet is nothing in the scheme of things. Jupiter pwns us hard size wise and our entire solar system really has nothing unique about it. It is just one among a vast number. Why would aliens even bother in the first place?

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Svipdag
WE DO NOT KNOW HOW THEY WOULD BEHAVE and there is no point in trying to second-guess them.

It would be ill advised to apply subjective and often irrational human morality to extraterrestrial beings.


I know, this is xenophobia. IMO, xenophobia is nothing but common sense.

:D
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll54/Liffrea66/warhammer-blue-gold1.jpg

[SuuT]

There are apparently no avid hunters on the Apricity.

[Radojica]

I have to say Hawking is going out on a limb here. There is little reason to believe that anything we're doing in the insurmountable vastness of space would even be noticed (puny radio wave signals) by a more advanced species or that any species with the ability to reach our planet would 1.) need the type of resources that we have or 2.) be unable to find our resources elsewhere in the universe.

Besides, think about how insignificant we are in comparison.

http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/image002.jpg

I am rather to believe that all other planets are quite insignificant comparing to our beloved planet Earth ;). EARTH has something what other planets don't, Earth has life :thumb001:

There is more than 200 planets discovered around various stars, yet, none of them is like Earth, more like Jupiter ;)

About aliens, well, let them come, I have great rakija just for that. We are known in the world as hospitable nation anyway :swl

p.s. Pluto is not consider a planet anymore, btw :)

[Saruman]

I am rather to believe that all other planets are quite insignificant comparing to our beloved planet Earth ;). EARTH have something what other planets don't, Earth has life :thumb001:

There is more than 200 planets discovered around various stars, yet, none of them is like Earth, more like Jupiter ;)

About aliens, well, let them come, I have great rakija just for that. We are known in the world as hospitable nation anyway :swl

p.s. Pluto is not consider a planet anymore, btw :)

That's because smaller planets like Earth can't be detected by the means that were used to detect gas giants. So surely there are planets like ours possibly even in those systems where large gas giants were discovered, and there is life somewhere, surely, there has to be.
So, I don't consider our planet that special. In fact if I could I would perhaps move to some other planet and form a colony. :D
If I met some friendly advanced aliens I would ask hem to help me in improving humans.:)