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Grumpy Cat
05-06-2010, 04:41 AM
The troubling resurgence of his ideas and manifesto, ‘Mein Kampf’

On April 30, 1945, Adolf Hitler took his own life with a simultaneous bite into a cyanide pill and gunshot to the temple. The day before, he dictated his will from the dank confines of the Führerbunker, a concrete shelter buried some eight metres below the old Reich Chancellery, as Soviet forces encircled Berlin. What exactly happened next is still fiercely contested, but by most accounts, the bodies of Hitler and his wife, Eva Braun, were carried upstairs to the garden by SS devotees, doused in gasoline, and burned to pieces—then buried, then later unearthed, and then buried again in an unknown location, or perhaps just scattered to the wind.

Almost 65 years later to the day, the man and the totalitarian regime he established continue to fascinate us. In just the last few years, Mein Kampf (My Struggle), Hitler’s poorly written, 700-page magnum opus, “turgid, verbose, shapeless,” to borrow from Winston Churchill, has earned bestseller status in some unlikely markets: India, Turkey and the Palestinian territories. His paintings are fetching record-setting prices, and trade in anything the Third Reich leader touched, or might have touched, is thriving. In some cases, the fascination is trivial, even absurd, such as the “Nazi chic” clothing that has been popular in Asia: T-shirts with Hitler portraits and swastikas. In others, though, it is more pernicious: the 65 years that have passed since Hitler’s death have not dulled the allure of the Führer, or his ideology, for the now-burgeoning extreme right.

Take the lead-up to last Sunday’s national elections in Hungary, which saw the far-right Jobbik Magyarországért Mozgalom (Movement for a Better Hungary) rake in 16.7 per cent of the national vote. In just a few years, Jobbik has grown from almost nothing, winning over a disenchanted electorate with its stark anti-Semitic and anti-Roma rhetoric. Party officials have been careful to dismiss any direct links to Nazism; anti-Semitism is masked in attacks on Israeli investors and hatred of the Roma is justified with talk of “gypsy crime.” But members of Jobbik’s paramilitary wing, the Magyar Gárda (Hungarian Guard), have not been so cautious. Neither have its supporters, who gathered by the Danube River last week to lash out at “Jewish pigs” and to unite in a common cry against foreigners on Hungarian soil: “They should leave!” Jobbik’s leaders, now at the helm of the opposition, are ready to take their country forward—away from all that “commotion over the Holocaust.”

Hasnain Kazim, a journalist of Pakistani and Indian origin who is based in Islamabad, shies away from revealing where he was born: Germany. But it’s hard to avoid; Kazim says people in Pakistan jump at any opportunity to talk with someone from Germany. “They say: ‘Wow! Cool! So you’re in favour of Hitler!’ ” It’s even worse, he says, when family comes to visit him in Pakistan’s bustling capital. The embarrassment might begin on the busy drive home from the airport. “You’ll find cars with the Deutsches Kreuz, the German Cross. You’ll find people with stickers on their car saying ‘I LIKE NAZI’ or ‘I LIKE HITLER.’ ” And then there’s the banter. “People start talking about Hitler [in a] friendly way,” Kazim explains. Even though “the people aren’t Nazis,” he says that Nazi imagery is ubiquitous in Pakistan’s large cities. It took some time away, and then a move back to Islamabad eight months ago, for it to really resonate: “I only realized now how many people like Hitler.”

Jonathan Solomon, a lawyer in Mumbai, says the same revelation struck him when he was browsing for books. “I was shocked to see that Mein Kampf is available in Indian bookstores, even in the prestigious bookstores. It was not 10 years ago.” Moreover, pirated copies of the book, in a country where a 22-year ban on Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses has still to be lifted, are available at street stalls. “It sells very well,” says P.M. Shenvi, manager of the Strand Book Stall in Mumbai. Today, publishers continue to churn out multiple reprints of Mein Kampf a year to meet what R.H. Sharma, an editor at Mumbai’s Jaico Publishing House, insists is a surging demand. In 2009, “we sold 10,000 copies over a six-month period in our Delhi shops,” Sharma has boasted.

Perhaps Solomon should not have been taken aback. In 2002, the English-language Times of India published a report showing that Indian college students found much to admire in the Führer: namely, his efficiency, military strength and nationalism. The newspaper asked 400 elite college students, “Who’s your favourite leader from history?” Hitler came in third, just behind Mahatma Gandhi. “Because he made Germany a superpower,” was one student’s response.

Of course, it’s not just India where Mein Kampf is topping the charts. In 2001, it became a hot item after being introduced in Bulgaria. Soon afterwards, an Arabic translation became the sixth best seller in the Palestinian territories, according to Agence France-Presse. (“National Socialism did not die with the death of its herald,” read its introduction.) Then, in 2005, the book took a top-seller spot in Turkey, selling over 100,000 copies in January and February alone—mostly, said publishers, to males between 18 and 30. And, it’s been flying off Croatian shelves for years.
Not bad, for a badly written book. (“A boring tome that I have never been able to read,” Benito Mussolini, the Italian Fascist dictator, once jeered.) Hitler wrote Mein Kampf—part autobiography, part raving philosophical treatise—in 1923, while in jail for a failed plot to seize control of Munich. It eventually became the holy book of the German National Socialist Party.

Global sales figures are hard to estimate; the official rights to Mein Kampf are held by the German state of Bavaria, which bans it from being printed. In the U.S. and U.K., the rights were seized when Hitler was still alive, and are privately held today. Houghton Mifflin, the U.S. publisher, told Maclean’s that it sold 26,000 paperback copies in 2009. The U.K.’s Random House would not release its sales figures upon request. In many other countries, however, the situation is less controlled, and small publishers are apt to print Mein Kampf at will. Increasingly, they are feeding eager markets.

Ilhas Niaz, history professor at Islamabad’s Quaid-e-Azam University, says Hitler fares well in Pakistan in part because of a particularly Pakistani admiration for strong leaders. “The cult of personality is strong,” says Niaz. When “the current crisis cannot be met by any ordinary leader, people are looking into history for a charismatic figure.” Aurangzeb Nazir, a 24-year-old student in Islamabad, told Maclean’s, “Hitler united his nation and brought it from the brink of collapse to global prominence. That’s why we look up to him.” It’s certainly not a new phenomenon. One of Pakistan’s most beloved leaders, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, also saw the 20th century’s most famous mass murderer as someone to emulate. “Bhutto had silver-bound copies of Mein Kampf in his library,” says Niaz. “He incorporated lines from Hitler’s speeches directly into his own oratory.”

Read more (http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/04/21/the-return-of-hitler/)

Austin
05-06-2010, 06:42 AM
mmmm Hitler mmmmm

Cato
05-06-2010, 03:23 PM
Troubling, hah.
Inevitable more like it.
What is troubling is the fact that modern Hitlerites seriously misunderstand what Hitler actually stood for and, instead, focus on Hitler himself in a quasi-religious fashion. Hitler himself has little to do with his message imo; the man was more than a bit of a quack who doesn't deserve a tenth portion of the admiration (or hate) that he's given.

Austin
05-10-2010, 08:31 AM
Troubling, hah.
Inevitable more like it.
What is troubling is the fact that modern Hitlerites seriously misunderstand what Hitler actually stood for and, instead, focus on Hitler himself in a quasi-religious fashion. Hitler himself has little to do with his message imo; the man was more than a bit of a quack who doesn't deserve a tenth portion of the admiration (or hate) that he's given.

True Hitler was not the most rational of characters on all levels....insisted that an army of 300,000 stand against 1 million and only 6000 made it back to Germany.......Tried to wipe out an entire race while fighting two wars against the most powerful nations on earth........just think if Hitler had not devoted so much resources/German manpower to exterminating Jews... Also if your an open racist as a white person or even a stealth racist, you have a soft spot for Hitler on some level and a certain level of respect. Tons of people that disagree with Hitler on most everything still say things like...'gotta give it to that Hitler guy'...or 'the trains always ran on time under Hitler'...

People that like Hitler today like him in a historical/racial sense. He represented a third way from capitalism and communism, the first real modern nationalist of sorts that actually not only became globally powerful but nearly and for a short time did conquer the Western/Eastern world or much of it.

Also I think if you look at many popular historical figures in contexts of war/populist/nationalist figures it is easy to see that a good majority were just as irrational as Hitler if not more so. It is what was done under him that counts in peoples mind in the end not his psychological aspect, I don't think Hitler was actually crazy, full of seriously freak-like ideas, yes, but not batshit crazy...he did a lot of good from a structural standpoint before he went to town with his true intentions.

Jarl
05-10-2010, 09:36 AM
‘I LIKE NAZI’ or ‘I LIKE HITLER.’

Awesome! I need one too!



Jonathan Solomon, ,

Hitler came in third, just behind Mahatma Gandhi.

“Because he made Germany a superpower,” was one student’s response.

Ilhas Niaz, history professor [b]at Islamabad’s Quaid-e-Azam University,


Yeah... that makes a lot of sense...


A barbaric philosophy... for tribal people... “Because he made Germany a superpower,” ;)

julie
05-10-2010, 02:20 PM
Troubling, hah.
Inevitable more like it.
What is troubling is the fact that modern Hitlerites seriously misunderstand what Hitler actually stood for and, instead, focus on Hitler himself in a quasi-religious fashion. Hitler himself has little to do with his message imo; the man was more than a bit of a quack who doesn't deserve a tenth portion of the admiration (or hate) that he's given.



I could not said that any better.Hitler was not a hero but a murder!

Cato
05-10-2010, 02:27 PM
Hitlerism is just like Caesarism or Obamaism or any other cult of personality. The ancients gave worthy heroes divine honors; the unworthy were treated with damnatio memoriae, their existences erased from the historical record (to a lesser or greater degree).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae

Hitler is unworthy, he was a bum and a failure at what he set out to do, and nothing else needs to be said about him.

Beorn
05-10-2010, 10:27 PM
Hitler was not a hero but a murder!

He wasn't a hero to you, but to many he was (and is still). To say he isn't a hero is simply to forget what the man and his sheer drive did for the people of Germany.
Love him or loathe him (personally I am neutral) it isn't for you to state whether he was a hero or not.

Treffie
05-10-2010, 10:29 PM
He wasn't a hero to you, but to many he was (and is still). To say he isn't a hero is simply to forget what the man and his sheer drive did for the people of Germany.
Love him or loathe him (personally I am neutral) it isn't for you to state whether he was a hero or not.

What are you talking about? This is a discussion forum, so I'll just say that he was a fucking headcase! :confused:

Kanasyuvigi
05-10-2010, 10:34 PM
It's funny to read so many comments like "He's not even worth discussing"
Eh, guys, you discuss him. Evil or hero he is definately one of the most remarquable figures of the XX century.
My opinion is that he was a war criminal, just like Stalin and Truman.

Beorn
05-10-2010, 10:43 PM
What are you talking about?

I wasn't saying she couldn't say what she wanted, I was telling her she had no place or ground to suggest he isn't a hero to people.

Treffie
05-10-2010, 10:44 PM
I wasn't saying she couldn't say what she wanted, I was telling her she had no place or ground to suggest he isn't a hero to people.

OIC :)

Btw, someone just repped me with this about Hitler

`He was bouncing off the walls, yeah`

:D

Austin
05-11-2010, 11:51 AM
One persons demon is another persons angel....


I don't see why mass killings are considered immoral. It is all how you view morality really. If you view your declared enemies being wiped out as a good thing then Hitler was by no means immoral in the minds of his supporters, one must take into account the reality that morals are whatever one wants them to be ultimately not some generic manifestation.

A bank robber who would otherwise starve is usually only sorry that he was caught not that he committed the robberies...The same applies here except on a larger more encompassing scale.

Tony
05-11-2010, 12:21 PM
I could not said that any better.Hitler was not a hero but a murder!

Get an education , it's always useful to hear the other bell as well...

http://www.thenewsturmer.com/

http://www.adolfthegreat.com/index.html

Cato
05-11-2010, 01:37 PM
The true heroes of Germany during the war are the Germans themselves, not the tinpot dictator that took the easy way out in the Fuhrerbunker.

Cato
05-11-2010, 02:04 PM
http://www.adolfthegreat.com/index.html


This website looks promising. My dislike of Hitler doesn't really stem from any of the post-war propaganda about him but mainly from the fact that I regard him as a political dictator- just like Mao and "Uncle" Joe and, gasp, FDR (who often overused the power of the executive branch of government, ignored the Constitution, et cetera). The guy had a complex, perhaps overly complex, thought process that tended towards pointless, rambling vanities. He had his good points: mild-mannered, kind to women and children, animal lover, very well-read, and so forth, but these were personal good points rather than political ones.

His only real political point that I agree with is strong anti-bolshevism.

Cato
05-11-2010, 02:06 PM
http://www.adolfthegreat.com/index.html


This website looks promising. My dislike of Hitler doesn't really stem from any of the post-war propaganda about him but mainly from the fact that I regard him as a political dictator- just like Mao and "Uncle" Joe and, gasp, FDR (who often overused the power of the executive branch of government, ignored the Constitution, et cetera). The guy had a complex, perhaps overly complex, thought process that tended towards pointless, rambling vanities. He had his good points: mild-mannered, kind to women and children, animal lover, very well-read, and so forth, but these were personal good points rather than political ones.

His only real political point that I agree with is strong anti-bolshevism.

I have Mein Kampf, someplace, and Savitri Devi's Lightning and the Sun, in abridged form.

anonymaus
05-11-2010, 03:38 PM
I don't see why mass killings are considered immoral. It is all how you view morality really. If you view your declared enemies being wiped out as a good thing then Hitler was by no means immoral in the minds of his supporters, one must take into account the reality that morals are whatever one wants them to be ultimately not some generic manifestation.

A bank robber who would otherwise starve is usually only sorry that he was caught not that he committed the robberies...The same applies here except on a larger more encompassing scale.

Mass killings are considered immoral because the victims are forcefully stripped of arms and unable to fight back: a situation under which they are (if uniformed soldiers or civilians) guaranteed certain protections. The purpose of warfare is to sap the enemy's morale and will to fight; destroying assets is a means to that end, not an end in itself, and disarming those assets before slaughtering them en masse has the opposite effect--it bolsters support in the enemy's camp.

Your post is a good example of what subjectivism does to man's mind when allowed to run rampant.

Cato
05-11-2010, 03:40 PM
Violence is morally neutral. A murderer getting the chair is justice to some, murder to others.

anonymaus
05-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Violence is morally neutral. A murderer getting the chair is justice to some, murder to others.

That isn't neutral it's subjective; moreover, it disregards context entirely which is how we determine whether or not a violent act is justified (moral) or unjustified (immoral).

Cato
05-11-2010, 03:46 PM
That isn't neutral it's subjective; moreover, it disregards context entirely which is how we determine whether or not a violent act is justified (moral) or unjustified (immoral).

Let's take one embellished episode from holy writ:

Genocide of Canaanites by Israelites = Good? (Gawd approves, so it's good of course)

What then of the intentions of the purveyor of violence itself? To the Israelites, they were doing God's work; to the Canaanites, what about what they may've thought about being put to the axe by the order Jehovah's bully-boys?

(Edit: Had to edit this a bit after some thought.)

Blood Trinity
05-14-2010, 02:16 AM
As pointed out in the original post, the Third Reich is a subject of fascination for many.

I think what is lost on modern National Socialist revivalists and/or "neo-nazis" is that NS and other "Third Way" movements of the time (Fascism, Falangism, etc.) were purely phenomenal, reactionary and not suited beyond their historic eras and the circumstances which surrounded them. As Robert Paxton points out in his book on Fascist movements as they operated in practice (as opposed to merely focusing endlessly on theory), they grew as a result of a sort of populist need to unite the most relevant of people from all areas of society via nationalism, rejecting the previous long-standing political philosophies (Socialism, Conservatism, Liberalism) that prevailed then and continue to today. Further, Hitler himself made it clear that National Socialism was not for export, as did Mussolini with Fascism. Nationalist movements cater to the national character of the country in question. Today we have a situation where Americans in 2010 are wearing the uniforms -- and attempting to revive something -- of 1930s Germany.

If someone wishes to call themselves a National Socialist today, I'm sure they have their reasons and it does not offend me per se. But I think it would do them well to consider a change in name and approach, particularly the level of historical romanticism that often goes with it. Personally, I have to reiterate that I find these type of theories relics of history at this point and thus irrelevant to modern politics. And to be quite frank, these caricatures in particular who brandish replica S.A. uniforms and have rallies in the streets of American cities do nothing but make anyone with racialist views look stupid every time they get on TV shouting "Sieg Heil" with horrid pronunciation.

Austin
06-11-2010, 08:04 AM
Many people respect Hitler but at the same time would never dress up in a uniform running around being pro-Nazi. Those people are stupid, yes. I like Hitler from a racial view and a strongman view, as most do, not from a view that his exact ideology could be applied today in it's exact form, it couldn't.......but it could be fine tuned (:

Svanhild
06-11-2010, 04:46 PM
Sure, Hitler is back. :cool:

rh0sbpJJ4pM

Groenewolf
06-11-2010, 05:42 PM
Like most Dutch comedians mediocre at best. But in this context pretty funny.

Baron Samedi
06-11-2010, 06:32 PM
One persons demon is another persons angel....


I don't see why mass killings are considered immoral. It is all how you view morality really. If you view your declared enemies being wiped out as a good thing then Hitler was by no means immoral in the minds of his supporters, one must take into account the reality that morals are whatever one wants them to be ultimately not some generic manifestation.

A bank robber who would otherwise starve is usually only sorry that he was caught not that he committed the robberies...The same applies here except on a larger more encompassing scale.

You are either a troll or the BIGGEST piece of shit that has ever made it's way onto this forum.

Please shut the fuck up..... You claim to be a Christian with that reasoning?

Austin
06-12-2010, 05:59 AM
You are either a troll or the BIGGEST piece of shit that has ever made it's way onto this forum.

Please shut the fuck up..... You claim to be a Christian with that reasoning?

Being a Christian takes many forms whether you like it or not. :tongue

I might not be a Christian for the same reasons you are, yet it does not make me a Christian any less so. There are Christians that are for the death penalty, there are also ones who are against it, neither is better.

Morality is subjective just as religion is, deal with it.fZxKGxNmWz4

Baron Samedi
06-12-2010, 08:53 PM
Being a Christian takes many forms whether you like it or not. :tongue

I might not be a Christian for the same reasons you are, yet it does not make me a Christian any less so. There are Christians that are for the death penalty, there are also ones who are against it, neither is better.

Morality is subjective just as religion is, deal with it.fZxKGxNmWz4

Don't tell me the Word of God is subjective.... Please....

spearofperun
06-12-2010, 09:00 PM
this just gives me a slight hope that the death of EUSSR and NATO might come sometime soon.

Austin
06-13-2010, 12:11 AM
Don't tell me the Word of God is subjective.... Please....



The word of god is and always has been subjective throughout human history. Please.... join reality