Arbereshe del sud Italia

[Tiberio]

Buona idea per un thread diverso dal solito. Ditemi tutto ciò che sapete su di loro.
Le cifre di Wikipedia parlano di circa 33.000 in Sicilia e di 100.000 in tutto il meridione.
Ovviamente mi auguro di vedere qualche amico albanese del forum dare il proprio contributo.

[Sideritis]

Scusa, ma parliamo dei Arbereshe oppure gli Albanesi che sono emigratti dopo gli anni '90?

[Ulla]

Scusa, ma parliamo dei Arbereshe oppure gli Albanesi che sono emigratti dopo gli anni '90?

Arbereshe, immagino.

[Tiberio]

Scusa, ma parliamo dei Arbereshe oppure gli Albanesi che sono emigratti dopo gli anni '90?

Arbereshe chiaramente.

[Sideritis]

Qualche giorno fa, tre pretti Arbereshe/ Albanesi sonno venutti a dare una interview in una tivu albanese
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?154396-quot-Shqiptaret-si-Arbereshe-quot-a-program-with-three-Arbereshe-priests&highlight=Shqiptar
Meravigliosi!

[Tiberio]

Hai notato differenze nella lingua?hanno assimilato caratteri regionali italiani secondo te?

[Sideritis]

Hai notato differenze nella lingua?hanno assimilato caratteri regionali italiani secondo te?

Si certamente. Pero il loro Albanese era chiaro come l'aqua. Specialmente per me che sonno dal Sud' Albania e a casa parliamo il dialetto Tosk.

p.s. scusa per gli errori gramtici in Italiano, e passato tempo da quando ho scrito in italiano.

[Tiberio]

Tranquilla capisco tutto.
Comunque qui c'è un buon racconto sulla storia di questa comunità nel meridione d'Italia.
http://www.arbitalia.it/storia/migrazioni.htm

[alfieb]

Scusa, ma parliamo dei Arbereshe oppure gli Albanesi che sono emigratti dopo gli anni '90?

Il governo italiano (ISTAT) tiene traccia di immigrati Albanesi, ma non il Arbereshe. Il numero di Arbereshe si stima che sulla base di persone che vivono in comuni Arbereshe.

In Sicilia, che considerano solo Palermo.

[Sideritis]

Tranquilla capisco tutto.
Comunque qui c'è un buon racconto sulla storia di questa comunità nel meridione d'Italia.
http://www.arbitalia.it/storia/migrazioni.htm

Grazie. Molto interesante. Per gli Arbereshe che ci sono spostati dalla Grecia ce anche una canzone Moj E Bukura More https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl0f0uLTw8

[Sideritis]

Il governo italiano (ISTAT) tiene traccia di immigrati Albanesi, ma non il Arbereshe. Il numero di Arbereshe si stima che sulla base di persone che vivono in comuni Arbereshe.

In Sicilia, che considerano solo Palermo.

Potrebbe essere, perche gli Arbereshe sono citadini italiani e non reconoscuti come minorita etnica, on the other side, gli immigranti legali sono facili da tennere traccia. imo

[Tiberio]

Esatto, gli arbereshe sono cittadini italiani mentre gli albanesi emigrati di recente generalmente no.
Wikipedia riporta 33.000 in Sicilia e 100.000 in tutto il meridione.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB_di_Sicilia
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB

[Tacitus]

Il governo italiano (ISTAT) tiene traccia di immigrati Albanesi, ma non il Arbereshe. Il numero di Arbereshe si stima che sulla base di persone che vivono in comuni Arbereshe.

In Sicilia, che considerano solo Palermo.


Potrebbe essere, perche gli Arbereshe sono citadini italiani e non reconoscuti come minorita etnica, on the other side, gli immigranti legali sono facili da tennere traccia. imo

Allora, in quel caso il numero degli Arbereshe e' piu' vicino a 60,000 che 100,000 se mi ricordo giusto.

[Era]

Ho incontratto qualche arbereshi a Roma e mi sonno sorpresa quanto hanno conservato la lingue. Lo potevi capire sensa difficolta. E una meraviglia che dopo 500 anni lo parlano cosi bene. :)

[Ulla]

Potrebbe essere, perche gli Arbereshe sono citadini italiani e non reconoscuti come minorita etnica, on the other side, gli immigranti legali sono facili da tennere traccia. imo

Gli Arbereshe sono cittadini italiani ovviamente, ma sono riconosciuti come minoranza etnica e linguistica.

[alfieb]

Allora, in quel caso il numero degli Arbereshe e' piu' vicino a 60,000 che 100,000 se mi ricordo giusto.

Dal loro sangue o dal loro linguaggio? Per il sangue ci può essere un milione.

[Ulla]

Dal loro sangue o dal loro linguaggio? Per il sangue ci può essere un milione.

Sono troppi un milione, la stima più grande (nel senso di stima per eccesso) per la popolazione etnica è di 250 mila. Per il linguaggio la stima è di 80 mila arbereshe che parlano ancora l'arbereshe a qualsiasi livello. Comunque molti arbereshe sono stati ormai assimilati.

[Tacitus]

Dal loro sangue o dal loro linguaggio? Per il sangue ci può essere un milione.

Penso che sia abitanti dei comuni arbereshe.

[Tiberio]

A Palermo ne conosco qualcuno di queste origini che però ormai parla solo l'italiano.
Solitamente si contano i soggetti che seguono il rito bizantino tipico loro non chi parla l'albanese.
Credo che la comunità meglio conservata è quella di Piana.

[alfieb]

Sono troppi un milione, la stima più grande (nel senso di stima per eccesso) per la popolazione etnica è di 250 mila. Per il linguaggio la stima è di 80 mila arbereshe che parlano ancora l'arbereshe a qualsiasi livello. Comunque molti arbereshe sono stati ormai assimilati.

I used to date an Arbereshe girl. Well, Arbereshe in as much as she was Palermitan and her family name was of Arbereshe origin and her father had been raised as a member of the Byzantine-rite Italo-Albanian Catholic Church in Palermo. But she called herself a Greek, because they didn't speak Albanian anymore and had come to adopt their church as their identity.

By blood she is an Arbereshe. By culture, not so much. By language, not at all. People like that have existed for 500 years. There were Arbereshe towns in Eastern Sicily that went native and now speak Sicilian and Italian. Only the towns in Palermo retain their identity, and not even all of those. Three or four, I think... and a few others used to speak Albanian but no longer do. But the blood and the names are still there.

[Ulla]

A Palermo ne conosco qualcuno di queste origini che però ormai parla l'italiano.
Solitamente si contano i soggetti che seguono il rito bizantino tipico loro non chi parla l'albanese.
Credo che la comunità più meglio conservata è quella di Piana.

Ci sono anche nel nord Italia arrivati con migrazioni più recenti dal sud Italia. Questo per esempio sta in Piemonte, è stato consigliere in regione, e nel 2010 ha sostenuto la lista Cota

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodato_Scanderebech

[Tacitus]

Interessante che il comune arbereshe piu' grande non e' nella Sicilia o Calabria, ma Puglia:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marzano_di_San_Giuseppe

[Tacitus]

If I just changed a small part of your text, it could apply the same to the Arvanites.

Many Arvanites from the Peloponnese came to Calabria during the 1500s. Some founded the town San Demetrio Corone, named after the Greek city of Koroni. Arbereshe is still spoken there today IIRC.

[alfieb]

https://i.imgur.com/H5Zlb9H.png


LMFAO, classic Raine

Same story. I got thumbs down :cry:


I'll ignore the whole you registered a few weeks ago thing. :lol:

[Ulla]

Enrico Cuccia è stato forse uno degli italiani di origine arbereshe più di successo in Italia. Era arbereshe da parte di padre, il nonno proveniva da Mezzojuso in Sicilia, e per tanti anni Cuccia è stato l'uomo più potente della finanza in Italia.

"Enrico Cuccia (24 November 1907 – 23 June 2000) was an Italian banker, who was the first and long-term president of Mediobanca SpA, the Milan-based investment bank, and a significant figure in the history of capitalism in Italy.

Cuccia was born in Rome on 24 November 1907 into a Sicilian family. His family were Catholic. His father was a senior civil servant at the finance ministry, while his paternal grandfather was a lawyer from Mezzojuso in Sicily, an Arbereshe community."

http://blog.ilgiornale.it/wallandstreet/files/2013/06/Cuccia.jpg

[wvwvw]

I used to date an Arbereshe girl. Well, Arbereshe in as much as she was Palermitan and her family name was of Arbereshe origin and her father had been raised as a member of the Byzantine-rite Italo-Albanian Catholic Church in Palermo. But she called herself a Greek, because they didn't speak Albanian anymore and had come to adopt their church as their identity.

By blood she is an Arbereshe. By culture, not so much. By language, not at all. People like that have existed for 500 years. There were Arbereshe towns in Eastern Sicily that went native and now speak Sicilian and Italian. Only the towns in Palermo retain their identity, and not even all of those. Three or four, I think... and a few others used to speak Albanian but no longer do. But the blood and the names are still there.

First of all Arbereshe and Arvanite is not the same word nor the etymology comes from the same words.
Arberia=/= Arvana. Arvana was a Greek city for up to the 14th century.

Arvanites were Greeks from that wider region, some were billingual, and some spoke Arvanitika, which contained 35% Greek words and could be understood by Greeks back in the 1800's.

So if she considered herself Greek is because she was obviously was Greek. All these Arvanites had a strong Greek conscience and knew from their forefathers and oral traditions they were Greeks. You are not in position to dictate to them how to identify, just like I am not in position to tell *YOU* how to identify.

[Era]

First of all Arbereshe and Arvanite is not the same word nor the etymology comes from the same words.
Arberia=/= Arvana. Arvana was a Greek city for up to the 14th century.

Arvanites were Greeks from that wider region, some were billingual, and some spoke Arvanitika, which contained 35% Greek words and could be understood by Greeks back in the 1800's.

So if she considered herself Greek is because she was obviously was Greek. All these Arvanites had a strong Greek conscience and knew from their forefathers and oral traditions they were Greeks. You are not in position to dictate to them how to identify, just like I am not in position to tell *YOU* how to identify.

arban=arvan=alban they are all the same thing crank just local variations.

[Sideritis]

Per la logica mathematic credo che ci sono piu di 60.000 arbereshe. Se ci sono stati 8(9) migrazioni sono poce persone. Questo deve dire che ci sono assimilati oppure hanno migrato in un altro paese. Ho conosciuto un Arbereshe in Alemanga che era sposato con una tedesca e parlava la lingua perche era un po vecchio.

[wvwvw]

arban=arvan=alban they are all the same thing crank just local variations.

These are names unrelated to each other. I also showed you in another thread the regions of Arvana, an Ancient Greek city that was Greek up to the 14th century and Arberia which was a totally different region in Albania.

Arberesh=/arvanites

Arvanites never in the annals of history considered themselves anything other than Greek, they knew from their oral traditions they were Greek. They can be seen on the map of the famous Croatian Albanologist that the Albanian government hired.

Btw Alfieb unwittingly thrashed the Albanian argument that Arvanites considered themselves Albanians and the bad Greeks forcibly Hellenized them. After 500 years in Italy the Arvanite girl he dated still considered herself Greek.

[Sideritis]

These are names unrelated to each other. I also showed you in another thread the regions of Arvana, an Ancient Greek city that was Greek up to the 14th century and Arberia which was a totally different region in Albania.

Arberesh=/arvanites

Arvanites never in the annals of history considered themselves anything other than Greek, they knew from their oral traditions they were Greek. They can be seen on the map of the famous Croatian Albanologist that the Albanian government hired.

Btw Alfieb unwittingly thrashed the Albanian argument that Arvanites considered themselves Albanians and the bad Greeks forcibly Hellenized them. After 500 years in Italy the Arvanite girl he dated still considered herself Greek.

lol crank. Alfieb is talking about Arbereshe not Arvanites. Anyways I didn't knew you were arvanites, I should have guessed.

[Era]

These are names unrelated to each other. I also showed you in another thread the regions of Arvana, an Ancient Greek city that was Greek up to the 14th century and Arberia which was a totally different region in Albania.

Arberesh=/arvanites


lol
I know about Arbana's castle. And again they ARE the same thing, it's just different dialects. Let it go :)

[wvwvw]

Even Dalmatians have some Greek ancestry.

Copying an Arvanite from History forums:

I have made it clear that Arvanites have nothing to do with Albanians.

They were Roman/Greek military settlers that left Southern Italy after the Arab invasion(from Tunis to be precise).

They migrated to Northern Italy and they ended to Dalmatia.
They were using the Latin language and their legends preach about themselves being Roman settlers of Greek origin.

Their language belonged to the branch of Dalmatian Latin(Western Latin) and not Eastern Latin(which is Romanian).

My people lived for a period of time at the boarders of Bojana river,the natural boarder of present day Albania and Montenegro.

There have been 4 waves of migrants to mainland Greece and the first one occured at Aetolo-Akarnania.
The capital was named Aggelokaston.

The first 2 waves were for sure Latinophone.
The fourth one was Albanophone for sure and I am not sure about what was the language of the third one.
The language conversion came after my people were surrounded by populations who name themselves Skipetars and lost their language slowly.

Genousos river was the natural boarder of Hellenism.
You can find Greek looking people especially in Laberia and even to Berat.
Those people are Greeks in blood.

And to sum it up.
Arvanites have nothing in common with present day Albanians.
And they didn't in the past too.
They have probably been mixed with Roman and Italic populations though.

At least this is my opinion after reading a LOT of books about my fraternal roots.

[Atvend]

http://i.imgur.com/DwbtQpY.gif

[Ulla]

Per la logica mathematic credo che ci sono piu di 60.000 arbereshe. Se ci sono stati 8(9) migrazioni sono poce persone.

Credo sia impossibile sapere con esattezza quanti siano i discendenti oggi di quelle migrazioni arbereshe. Molti sono stati assimilati ormai. Considera che nello stesso periodo ci furono migrazioni verso l'Italia anche di Greci e di Dalmati (Croati), tutte prevalentemente nel sud Italia con l'eccezione di Venezia.

Ex Scola di Santa Maria degli Albanesi a Venezia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Venezia_-_Ex_Scola_degli_albanesi_%28sec._XV%29_-_Foto_Giovanni_Dall%27Orto,_12-Aug-2007_-_01.jpg/576px-Venezia_-_Ex_Scola_degli_albanesi_%28sec._XV%29_-_Foto_Giovanni_Dall%27Orto,_12-Aug-2007_-_01.jpg

[Sideritis]

Nel Rinascimento Albanese, i Arbereshe hanno un grande roulo. Noi conosciamo Jeronim De Rada, Zef Serembe e altri.
Ah there is also the indisputable role of Joe DioGuardi , an american -arbereshe crucial in stopping the ethnic cleasning in Kosovo.
Honestly everybody loves Arbereshe in Albania, since they have played an important role and never forgot their roots due to some quarrels- As some other Albanian groups have done.

[Tiberio]

The assimilated arbereshe cities in Eastern Sicily are Bronte and Biancavilla as far as i know.
Also Piazza Armerina (ancient lombard-french city) had some arbereshe in the city who were probably assimilated.
Other two famous arbereshe are Stefano Rodotà and Francesco Crispi.

[Sideritis]

Credo sia impossibile sapere con esattezza quanti siano i discendenti oggi di quelle migrazioni arbereshe. Molti sono stati assimilati ormai. Considera che nello stesso periodo ci furono migrazioni verso l'Italia anche di Greci e di Dalmati (Croati), tutte prevalentemente nel sud Italia con l'eccezione di Venezia.

Ex Scola di Santa Maria degli Albanesi a Venezia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Venezia_-_Ex_Scola_degli_albanesi_%28sec._XV%29_-_Foto_Giovanni_Dall%27Orto,_12-Aug-2007_-_01.jpg/576px-Venezia_-_Ex_Scola_degli_albanesi_%28sec._XV%29_-_Foto_Giovanni_Dall%27Orto,_12-Aug-2007_-_01.jpg

Si certamente, pero credo che ci saranno piu di 60.000. Ma hai totalmente raggione, no si puo sappere con esatezza.

[Sideritis]

The assimilated arbereshe cities in Eastern Sicily are Bronte and Biancavilla as far as i know.
Also Piazza Armerina (ancient lombard-french city) had some arbereshe in the city who were probably assimilated.
Other two famous arbereshe are Stefano Rodotà and Francesco Crispi.

E vero che Anonio Gramsci e Arbereshe?

[Tiberio]

E vero che Anonio Gramsci e Arbereshe?

Esattamente.
Questa cittadina ha invece perso l'uso della lingua albanese e del rito bizantino e sono totalmente assimilati oggigiorno.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biancavilla

[Tiberio]

Biografia di Antonio Gramsci.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci

[Sideritis]

Esattamente.
Questa cittadina ha invece perso l'uso della lingua albanese e del rito bizantino e sono totalmente assimilati oggigiorno.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biancavilla

Interesante. Che peccato! Pero ha dire la verita queste cose che naturalmente capitano. Il stato Albanese non ha fatto niente ha presevare la loro cultara despite our good will.
Nei primi festivali doppo la ditatura, cera una canzone di due fratelli arbereshe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeCaT7h3teE
Bellissima. Tutti amavano questa canzone.

[Tiberio]

Interesante. Che peccato! Pero ha dire la verita queste cose normali. Il stato Albanese non ha fatto niente ha presevare la loro cultara despite our good will.
Nei primi festivali doppo la ditatura, cera una canzone di due fratelli arbereshe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeCaT7h3teE
Bellissima. Tutti amavano questa canzone.

Lo stesso è accaduto sempre in Sicilia ma anche Basilicata e Puglia con i comuni franco provenzali e lombardi, ormai parecchi hanno perso l'uso della lingua originale o hanno fuso gli elementi locali con quelli originari.

[Sideritis]

Questa e una canzone per Arberia Vaçe Zela - Moj e Bukur Arbëri https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pl-9M3gVxY

[wvwvw]

hahaha you're actually insane, I can understand that you want to be a sperm descendant of some great greek philosopher, but since you're arvanite, the bigger chances are that you're a sperm descendant of an honorary illyrian highlander

The fact that you are so insane to Albanize Greeks who for millenia of years considered themselves Greeks, the fact that you want to usurp Greek history as Albanian to hide your Turkoalbanian attrocities and the crimes against humanity you commited against the people of the Balkans, the fact that you take so much joy at Greece's economic misfortunes so that you feel better that your country is still a hellhole third world country even 25 years after the fall of communism, and the fact that it worries you SO MUCH that I might be a descendant of some Anceint Greeks clearly shows who the insane person is.

The day the shithole you call Albania becomes somewhat civilized (so far the only civilized parts of your country are where the Greek minority lives) that day you may open your mouth about Greeks.

[Ulla]

E vero che Anonio Gramsci e Arbereshe?

Sì, da parte di padre era di origine arbereshe/albanese, mentre la madre era sarda ma aveva anche una nonna nella linea paterna che era napoletana-spagnola. Il cognome deriva probabilmente da Gramsh in Albania.

[Ulla]

The assimilated arbereshe cities in Eastern Sicily are Bronte and Biancavilla as far as i know.
Also Piazza Armerina (ancient lombard-french city) had some arbereshe in the city who were probably assimilated.
Other two famous arbereshe are Stefano Rodotà and Francesco Crispi.

In Sicilia anche San Michele di Ganzaria che fu una comunità "lombarda" e poi ripopolata da arbereshe.

[Atvend]

Fuck you Fustanell, you broke crank!
Let it out crankles, let it all out...

[Sideritis]

Actually I want to greet my sister crank with a lovely arvanite song which every greek out there understand the lyrics. Arvanite: Moj e bukura gjitone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0vewHKySSM

[Tiberio]

https://forum.termometropolitico.it/599540-gli-albanesi-italia-arbereshe.html

[Sideritis]

https://forum.termometropolitico.it/599540-gli-albanesi-italia-arbereshe.html

Grazie per il link. Faleminderit.

[wvwvw]

lol crank. Alfieb is talking about Arbereshe not Arvanites. Anyways I didn't knew you were arvanites, I should have guessed.

I am Arvanite in your deluded head only. Keep calling me Arvanite if you like, although I have no such ancestry. If Muhammad can't go to the mountain I guess the mountain must come to Muhammad.

[Sideritis]

Come sonno percived gli Arbereshe in Italia? Ce qualche riconoscimento della loro essitenza dagli altri Italiani? Sonno curiosa-

[Sideritis]

I am Arvanite in your deluded head only. Keep calling me Arvanite if you like, although I have no such ancestry. If Muhammad can't go to the mountain I guess the mountain must come to Muhammad.

We have a say, the toungue goes where the teeth hurts, or why are you itching. So you have something with Arvanites for sure, either lineage either some Arvanites palikari broke your heart. lol But to be honest with your kind of anger, temper and behavior, you def have some Arvanites blood. :)

[Tiberio]

Come sonno percived gli Arbereshe in Italia? Ce qualche riconoscimento della loro essitenza dagli altri Italiani? Sonno curiosa-

Si certo e anche la lingua è tutelata.

[Sideritis]

Si certo e anche la lingua è tutelata.

Dalla gente normale. Per essempio gli Milanesi sanno che nel Sud d'Italia chi sonno persone comme l'arbereshe? Come sonno preceviutti(non se se e correto) , comme audacci, coragiosi, temperamento, e altre cose.:)

[Tiberio]

Dalla gente normale. Per essempio gli Milanesi sanno che nel Sud d'Italia chi sonno persone comme l'arbereshe? Come sonno preceviutti(non se se e correto) , comme audacci, coragiosi, temperamento, e altre cose.:)

Su questo non ti so rispondere.

[alfieb]

Btw Alfieb unwittingly thrashed the Albanian argument that Arvanites considered themselves Albanians and the bad Greeks forcibly Hellenized them. After 500 years in Italy the Arvanite girl he dated still considered herself Greek.
Not Arvanite. Arbereshe. They were nobles who came to Sicily as refugees after the death of Skanderbeg, because he had been a subject of our king and they were therefore under our protection, while their country was being taken over by Muslims.

She had thought she was Greek because her father's religion had been the Byzantine-Rite "Italo-Albanian Greek Catholic Church", and she was not raised in an Albanian-speaking environment, as he married a Sicilian-speaker of native stock, and her father died when she was young. The point being, there are hundreds of thousands of Sicilians and Southern Italians of Albanian blood who do not know, or do not identify with it.

[wvwvw]

Not Arvanite. Arbereshe. They were nobles who came to Sicily as refugees after the death of Skanderbeg, because he had been a subject of our king and they were therefore under our protection, while their country was being taken over by Muslims.

She had thought she was Greek because her father's religion had been the Byzantine-Rite "Italo-Albanian Greek Catholic Church", and she was not raised in an Albanian-speaking environment, as he married a Sicilian-speaker of native stock, and her father died when she was young. The point being, there are hundreds of thousands of Sicilians and Southern Italians of Albanian blood who do not know, or do not identify with it.

I see now you've changed your tune. From Greek Orthodox it became Greek Catholic now (what a joke) and from Arvanite became Arbereshe. You had mentioned in other threads before she was Arvanite and Greek Orthodox and that both Arvanite and Arbereshe was the same to you.

Your credibility is absolutely zero. You are a known Greek hater in this forum and despise everything about modern Greeks. You have made innumerable deragatory comments about Greeks and you are known to side with Albanians on every argument and dispute btween Greeks and Albanians. So know that you are not taken seriously by any Greek nor you have any credibility whatsoever Mr. Spin doctor.

[alfieb]

I see now you've changed your tune. From Greek Orthodox it became Greek Catholic now (what a joke) and from Arvanite became Arbereshe. You had mentioned in other threads before she was Arvanite and Greek Orthodox and that both Arvanite and Arbereshe was the same to you.

Your credibility is absolutely zero. You are a known Greek hater in this forum and despise everything about modern Greeks. You have made innumerable deragatory comments about Greeks and you are known to side with Albanians on every argument and dispute btween Greeks and Albanians. So know that you are not taken seriously by any Greek nor you have any credibility whatsoever Mr. Spin doctor.

There are no Orthodox in Sicily. They are Catholics with Orthodox rituals in communion with the Vatican.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo-Albanian_Catholic_Church

In Sicily, the Arbereshe were historically called Greeks by the Catholics because they were from the Balkans and had Byzantine liturgy. The main town, Piana degli Albanesi used to be called Piana degli Greci, even though the inhabitants had always been Albanian-speakers who arrived 500 years ago.

So, she was confused about her identity. I didn't change my tune. I elaborated because you are confused as usual, Raine.

[wvwvw]

There are no Orthodox in Sicily. They are Catholics with Orthodox rituals in communion with the Vatican.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo-Albanian_Catholic_Church

In Sicily, the Arbereshe were historically called Greeks by the Catholics because they were from the Balkans and had Byzantine liturgy. The main town, Piana degli Albanesi used to be called Piana degli Greci, even though the inhabitants had always been Albanian-speakers who arrived 500 years ago.

So, she was confused about her identity. I didn't change my tune. I elaborated because you are confused as usual, Raine.

I am not confused but I wouldn't say you are confused either. I remember pretty clearly what you have said before but like I said you like to spin and twist facts to suit your anti-Greek agenda. You are such a joke.

[Tiberio]

And Alfieb has ruined my thread.

[Tiberio]

Sideritis che ne pensi di questo link sulla lingua Arbereshe?
http://www.arbitalia.it/lingua/gerbino_grammatica_piana_albanesi/gerbino_grammatica.pdf

[alfieb]

And Alfieb has ruined my thread.

And you Italicroots people ruined the Sicilian women thread. So now we're even.


your anti-Greek agenda

Don't have one. Greeks are my favorite people in Europe, after Sicilians/Maltese. Many of my friends are Greek. My cousin is engaged to a Greek. I have nothing bad to say about Greek people.

One doesn't have to be anti-Greek to be pro-Albanian, or vice-versa. I'm anti-Serbian, anti-FYROM and anti-Russian.

[Sikeliot]

And you Italicroots people ruined the Sicilian women thread. So now we're even.

Not anymore though. Tiberio, Ianus and I all agreed to not post any more Sicilians. Now it's all Ctwentysevenj and Ulla posting them.

[Tiberio]

I'm not a member of ItalicRoots, i have discover this forum in these days here.
I've not ruined the thread about sicilian women because i've just posted some pictures of girls of MY people.

[alfieb]

lol "my people" says a guy who calls himself a Roman. There is virtually no Roman blood or influence in Sicilia. So unless you live in Ciazza in that silly little villa the tourists go to, you're not a Roman.

[Tiberio]

lol "my people" says a guy who calls himself a Roman. There is virtually no Roman blood or influence in Sicilia. So unless you live in Ciazza in that silly little villa the tourists go to, you're not a Roman.

And you call yourself a north african. lel
Sicels were italic like romans.

[alfieb]

And you call yourself a north african. lel
Prove it. I've never ever said I was North African, or that Sicilians were North Africans, or any of that. You're either pulling it out of your ass or you heard it on Italicroots.


Sicels were italic like romans.
We don't know what Sicels were. Either way, I'm no Sicel. I'm Sican+Elymian+Phoenician+Greek+Norman. And Sicilia was not part of the province of Italia under the Romans. Sicilians were Sicilians.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Roman_Italy.gif

[Sikeliot]

And you call yourself a north african. lel
Sicels were italic like romans.

Sikels were linguistically Italic, but if genetic testing is any implication, it's more likely that the pre-Greek Sicilians were a Neolithic Anatolian population with some Italic blood.

[Sideritis]

Sideritis che ne pensi di questo link sulla lingua Arbereshe?
http://www.arbitalia.it/lingua/gerbino_grammatica_piana_albanesi/gerbino_grammatica.pdf

Sto vendento questa pagina con intereso. Io non lo conscievo il signor Gerbino, in Albania si sa di une Altimari e Mandala, tutti e due proffesori Arbereshe. Da quando vedo questo studio ( che e nuove di 2009) e molto interesante, perche ci sono delle parole archaice che sonno scomparse dalle parlata giornaliera, pero si vede chiaramente che sonno parole di origine albanese. Sono stupita come la lingua non e cambiata radicalmente. Interesante, molto interesante. Grazie mille.

[Tiberio]

Prove it. I've never ever said I was North African, or that Sicilians were North Africans, or any of that. You're either pulling it out of your ass or you heard it on Italicroots.


We don't know what Sicels were. Either way, I'm no Sicel. I'm Sican+Elymian+Phoenician+Greek+Norman. And Sicilia was not part of the province of Italia under the Romans. Sicilians were Sicilians.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Roman_Italy.gif

Romans founded my nation which is Italy and Sicily is part of this nation!
Look here if there aren't roman buildings in Sicily lel
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilia_%28provincia_romana%29

[Ulla]

lol "my people" says a guy who calls himself a Roman. There is virtually no Roman blood or influence in Sicilia. So unless you live in Ciazza in that silly little villa the tourists go to, you're not a Roman.

Alfieb, il tradizionalismo Romano-Italico si è diffuso in tutta Italia negli ultimi anni, anche in Sicilia e nel nord Italia. So che qualche testo piacerebbe anche a te. Peraltro uno degli intellettuali di riferimento è siciliano e il tradizionalismo Romano-Italico non nega l'influenza orientale. Tutt'altro.

[Sikeliot]

Romans founded my nation which is Italy and Sicily is part of this nation!
Look here if there aren't roman buildings in Sicily lel
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilia_%28provincia_romana%29


All of central-southern Italy, Sicily and Greece are fairly genetically similar so we do not know for sure who contributed what genes.. but for what it is worth, Roman settlement was small, and Sicily became Romance speaking under Normans, not Romans. Roman era Sicilians identified as, and spoke, Greek.

[Sideritis]

And Alfieb has ruined my thread.

Scusa, pero non e vero in questo caso. Da quando vedo Alfieb sta cercando di spiegare una cosa legitima. E lei ( la raggaza) che non vuole capire, perche seconde lei tutti gli albanesi ortodosi sono greci. Una cosa che non e assolutamente vera.

[Tiberio]

With Diocleziano Sicily was part of Italian province by the way.

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians spoke Greek until into the Norman conquest. I don't think it makes sense for Sicilians to identify as "Roman" when genetically they are closest to the people in Calabria and in Crete, the Cyclades etc.

[Tiberio]

According to this map part of Sicily were latin and part were greek in the III century d.C.

http://s12.postimg.org/ynexyj9n1/Linea_La_Spezia_Rimini.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Sikeliot]

According to this map part of Sicily were latin and part were greek in the III century d.C.

http://s12.postimg.org/ynexyj9n1/Linea_La_Spezia_Rimini.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

But during the Byzantine rule they all spoke Greek again.

[alfieb]

Scusa, pero non e vero in questo caso. Da quando vedo Alfieb sta cercando di spiegare una cosa legitima. E lei ( la raggaza) che non vuole capire, perche seconde lei tutti gli albanesi ortodosi sono greci. Una cosa che non e assolutamente vera.

Grazie mille, la mia amica.


Romans founded my nation which is Italy and Sicily is part of this nation!


No, the frocio Garibaldi founded "your" nation, which is why every town in Sicily has a Via Garibaldi, created by the occupiers and collaborators. And now his hometown is in France, not "your nation". A nation to which I have a passport, but I wish I didn't.

[Tiberio]

Italian occupiers?
Are you a neo Bourbon eh?

[alfieb]

With Diocleziano Sicily was part of Italian province by the way.

Caracalla gave Roman citizenship to every free man in the empire before Diocleziano's reign, so that is irrelevant. When Roman citizenship was restricted to Italians, Sicily was not Italy.


Italian occupiers?
Are you a neo Bourbon eh?

Yes and no. I do not support Due Sicilie. I lived in Rome for a year and a half. It's better than being ruled from Naples. I'd also be fine with a Bonaparte king, since the heir to the Bonapartes is married to a Bourbon-Two Sicilies princess.

[Ulla]

No, the frocio Garibaldi founded "your" nation, which is why every town in Sicily has a Via Garibaldi, created by the occupiers and collaborators. And now his hometown is in France, not "your nation". A nation to which I have a passport, but I wish I didn't.

Garibaldi era 100% ligure anche se nato a Nizza. E tralasciamo ogni discorso su Nizza, altrimenti si apre una voragine.

[Tiberio]

It's strange but the only who claim about separatism are the americans like you, because the indipendendism movementes here take insignificant numbers of votes.

[Sideritis]

The assimilated arbereshe cities in Eastern Sicily are Bronte and Biancavilla as far as i know.
Also Piazza Armerina (ancient lombard-french city) had some arbereshe in the city who were probably assimilated.
Other two famous arbereshe are Stefano Rodotà and Francesco Crispi.

Io sto leggendo un po su di questi personaggi Arbereshe che noi non consciamo. Rodota, apparte il nome che risuona albanese, non leggo che sia arbereshe. Sai delle altre persone di origine Arbereshe?

[Tiberio]

Caracalla gave Roman citizenship to every free man in the empire before Diocleziano's reign, so that is irrelevant. When Roman citizenship was restricted to Italians, Sicily was not Italy.

We was part of Italy from Diocleziano until the Vandal invasion and with the Goths we were part of the Kingdom of Italy!

[Ulla]

Italian occupiers?
Are you a neo Bourbon eh?

Indipendentista. Immagino la 51esima stella degli USA, insomma la storia di Finocchiaro Aprile.

[alfieb]

It's strange but the only who claim about separatism are the americans like you, because the indipendendism movementes here take insignificant numbers of votes.

Because it is unrealistic, not because people do not want greater autonomy or independence. Raffaele Lombardo was elected by the silent majority. Too bad he was a crook. Better than the perverted communist now.

[Tiberio]

Indipendentista. Immagino la 51esima stella degli USA, insomma la storia di Finocchiaro Aprile.

Si e Turiddu Giulianu che voleva unirsi agli Stati Uniti, bell'indipendentismo davvero.

[alfieb]

Indipendentista. Immagino la 51esima stella degli USA, insomma la storia di Finocchiaro Aprile.
That could've happened. It's well documented that if the communists won in the post-war elections, the Americans were going to invade Sicily and take it for themselves.

[Tiberio]

Because it is unrealistic, not because people do not want greater autonomy or independence. Raffaele Lombardo was elected by the silent majority. Too bad he was a crook. Better than the perverted communist now.

Raffaele Lombardo is not a separatist! And anyway the kingdom of Sicily (or Two Sicilies) is not a kingdom only with the island and i feel very close culturally and with many other things with Naples, Calabria, Puglia, Basilicata.
The great affinity between sicilians and the mainlander southern italians is undeniable.

[alfieb]

Raffaele Lombardo is not a separatist! And anyway the kingdom of Sicily (or Two Sicilies) is not a kingdom only with the island and i feel very close culturally and with many other things with Naples, Calabria, Puglia, Basilicata.
The great affinity between sicilians and the mainlander southern italians is undeniable.
People from Calabria and Salento who speak Sicilian are my brothers. People from Naples and Foggia are not.

What of the affinity with Maltese, or Greeks? Are you going to say we are all one?

[Tiberio]

That could've happened. It's well documented that if the communists won in the post-war elections, the Americans were going to invade Sicily and take it for themselves.

I prefer Italy to US.
What would be the historical and cultural bond with them?

[Tiberio]

People from Calabria and Salento who speak Sicilian are my brothers. People from Naples and Foggia are not.

Salentini and Calabresi are our first bros but also Campanians, Lucanians and even Abruzzese are. 800 years of kingdom is a very important part of our people.
And don't forget that the first volgar italian was born in Sicily.

[alfieb]

I prefer Italy to US.
What would be the historical and cultural bond with them?

Nothing. But the USA would have eventually given Sicily independence like they did with Cuba, Philippines, etc... instead of "Autonomy" without respect.

Italy gave Sicily autonomy right before the kingdom fell, because they were afraid Sicilians would secede.

And I feel little kinship with anyone from Abbruzzu personally.

[Tiberio]

I'm actually agree with the federalism but not separatism. And again Salentini and Calabresi don't speak technically a sicilian language but their language which is close to sicilian but this great family is called Lingue Meridionali Estreme.
Abruzzo is part of kingdom of Sicily and Two Sicilies and they are our bros but for me also Lombards are our bros and this is the same for the majority of sicilians.

[Tiberio]

The word Italia was born in Calabria.

[Tiberio]

Io sto leggendo un po su di questi personaggi Arbereshe che noi non consciamo. Rodota, apparte il nome che risuona albanese, non leggo che sia arbereshe. Sai delle altre persone di origine Arbereshe?
Qui c'è una buona lista.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB#Personalit.C3.A0_arb.C3.ABresh .C3.AB
Stefano Rodotà è originario di un piccolo centro Arbereshe calabrese.
http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news//43061/Tra-i-candidati-un-arbereshe-.html

[Ulla]

Si e Turiddu Giulianu che voleva unirsi agli Stati Uniti, bell'indipendentismo davvero.

Sì, sudditanza allo stato puro.

[Tiberio]

Sì, sudditanza allo stato puro.

Gli stessi americani che riportarono in Sicilia e in tutto il Sud i vari boss mafiosi che Mussolini e Cesari Mori avevano cacciato. Non dimentichiamo questo.

[Ulla]

That could've happened. It's well documented that if the communists won in the post-war elections, the Americans were going to invade Sicily and take it for themselves.

Americans were allied with American Mafia that was anti-Communist, you know. Comunque sarebbe successo un casino innimaginabile se vincevano i comunisti e se gli americani invadevano la Sicilia.

[Tiberio]

Altra grande situazione da sottolineare.
Il regno Gotico d'Italia era il più importante di tutta Europa e la Sicilia ne era parte.
Gli italiani da nord a sud dovrebbero ricominciare a prendere coscienza delle proprie gloriose origini e radici.

[Tiberio]

Americans were allied with American Mafia that was anti-Communist, you know. Comunque sarebbe successo un casino innimaginabile se vincevano i comunisti e se gli americani invadevano la Sicilia.

E nacque la DC, a buon intenditore ...

[Ulla]

...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0-qhw6nLrg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLAd-Z6Q288

[Tiberio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmmfcG53kY4

[Ulla]

...

Old documentary about San Marzano in Puglia of Italian public broadcast RAI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D03Y87Llhbw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqdfktO4lr0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrOPXIQrsx8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sFNXC9FgeY

[Tacitus]

So to get back on topic: Sideritis, does this song sound particularly Albanian?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QKY_Tmaw2s

This one too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCtVSQPsRI

[Sideritis]

Old documentary about San Marzano in Puglia of Italian public broadcast RAI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D03Y87Llhbw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqdfktO4lr0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrOPXIQrsx8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sFNXC9FgeY

Super interesante. "dai nomi Papas, che dovevano prendere dagli riti bizantino greci agli muri di peitra che construgievano
" gli albanese sempre constretiti a chiudersi a unirsi contro le insidie che provenivano dal esterno"

[Tiberio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFqj8B402as

[Sideritis]

So to get back on topic: Sideritis, does this song sound particularly Albanian?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QKY_Tmaw2s

This one too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCtVSQPsRI

I am trying to find the same identical valle of the first one. Is very popular in mid-north Albania.

[Tiberio]

http://www.arbitalia.it/arte/poeti/zef_schiro_dimaggio.htm

[Prengs]

So to get back on topic: Sideritis, does this song sound particularly Albanian?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QKY_Tmaw2s


Yes that dance and song is Albanian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WvLCludkHw

[Sideritis]

http://www.arbitalia.it/arte/poeti/zef_schiro_dimaggio.htm

Questo nome e familiare.

[Ulla]

Lëtire Ensamble (Arbereshe from Calabria band) "Voka Jonë"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv76X229KX0

[Sideritis]

Yes that dance and song is Albanian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WvLCludkHw

Exactly this one. This is the problem when you search them in Albanian:p

[Sideritis]

Lëtire Ensamble (Arbereshe from Calabria band) "Voka Jonë"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv76X229KX0

Nice song. It sound more lyric, with latin influences a bit modern, not really traditionally. Not difficult to understand though. Meanwhile she Arta Dobroshi, a nice actress from Kosovo.

[Tiberio]

Questo nome e familiare.

Sembra che il cognome Schirò abbia origini Arbereshe, in ogni caso è abbastanza diffuso in Sicilia soprattutto.

[Sideritis]

Sembra che il cognome Schirò abbia origini Arbereshe, in ogni caso è abbastanza diffuso in Sicilia soprattutto.

Potrebbe essere. Noi abbiamo une famouse poeta di rinascimento che proveniva da Shkodra, e si chiamava Filip Shiroka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filip_Shiroka
Sh e ugale a Sc in italiano. Pero in questo caso, credo che il signore Sciro-Dimaggio lo sentito nella TV pero non ricordo. Forse mi sbaglio e mi sembra familiare solo dal cognome.

[Ulla]

Arbereshe di Piana degli Albanesi, Sicilia


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BpE5PeyrFI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjk0AcxD1aE

[Tiberio]

Potrebbe essere. Noi abbiamo une famouse poeta di rinascimento che proveniva da Shkodra, e si chiamava Filip Shiroka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filip_Shiroka
Sh e ugale a Sc in italiano. Pero in questo caso, credo che il signore Sciro-Dimaggio lo sentito nella TV pero non ricordo. Forse mi sbaglio e mi sembra familiare solo dal cognome.

L'unica fonte che ho trovato finora è questa.
Schirò è di fatto un cognome tipicamente albanese, e si ritrova in tutte le comunità albanesi in Sicilia o a chi ha queste origini.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgo_Schir%C3%B2

Altri cognomi con origini accertate Arbereshe sono Bellusci e Musacchio.

[Sideritis]

Arbereshe di Piana degli Albanesi, Sicilia


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BpE5PeyrFI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjk0AcxD1aE

Honestly, this is wonderful. I had to do smth else tonite, but I am watching your videos. Is there any arbereshe among us in here? Does anybody understand the language?

[Sideritis]

L'unica fonte che ho trovato finora è questa.
Schirò è di fatto un cognome tipicamente albanese, e si ritrova in tutte le comunità albanesi in Sicilia o a chi ha queste origini.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgo_Schir%C3%B2

Altri cognomi con origini accertate Arbereshe sono Bellusci e Musacchio.

Ah si lo so. Bellusci oppoure Belushi provenivano da Korca generalmente. Ce anche un attore americano-albanese che si chiama Jim Belushi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Belushi , e anche suo fratello James. Musacchio proviene da Muzaka, che e anche il cognome di una famiglia nobile nella provinca di Myzeqe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzaka_family

[alfieb]

Is there any arbereshe among us in here? Does anybody understand the language?
My bisnonna/great-grandmother was Arbereshe, but I am not. I don't speak a word of Albanian. Don't think there are any Arbereshe on TA.

[Ulla]

Honestly, this is wonderful. I had to do smth else tonite, but I am watching your videos. Is there any arbereshe among us in here? Does anybody understand the language?

Among the Italians on TA I haven't ever met a full Arbereshe so far. Probably someone could have some Arbereshe ancestors though.

[Sideritis]

My bisnonna/great-grandmother was Arbereshe, but I am not. I don't speak a word of Albanian. Don't think there are any Arbereshe on TA.

Ah ok. Did she had any interesting name like Lule? :) Joking. Thanks for letting me know.

[Ulla]

Altri cognomi con origini accertate Arbereshe sono Bellusci e Musacchio.

Tra gli Arbereshe è diffusa anche la versione italianizzata di Bellusci, ovvero Bellucci che però è panitaliano.

[Tiberio]

My bisnonna/great-grandmother was Arbereshe, but I am not. I don't speak a word of Albanian. Don't think there are any Arbereshe on TA.

From Piana?

[Sideritis]

Tra gli Arbereshe è diffusa anche la versione italianizzata di Bellusci, ovvero Bellucci che però è panitaliano.

Ce anche la version che Bellucci proviene da una tribu nella Persia, pero non lo so.

[Sideritis]

From Piana?

Ohh you could be cousins. Nice, nice:D

[Trogdor]

My mother's maiden name (her side of the family was also from Apulia) supposedly implies having Albanian ancestry (it's Albanese). Interesting videos though.

[alfieb]

From Piana?

I don't know if she was born there or if just her parents were. Her surname is common in Piana. She met my great-grandfather in the city (Palermo), and they settled in his hometown in Trapani. On my other side, Albanese is the #3 cognome in my mom's village, but I don't know of any direct Arbereshe ancestry there.

[Ulla]

Ce anche la version che Bellucci proviene da una tribu nella Persia, pero non lo so.

Si quello è il Beluchistan, immagino. Ma il cognome italiano Bellucci deriva da un nome diffuso nel Medioevo, Bello, più il suffisso -uccio. Da Bello sono derivati tantissimi cognomi in Italia: Bellini, Belli, Bellucci, Bellotti, Bellotto, Di Bello, De Bellis...

[Tiberio]

Ulla batte Piero Angela.

[Ulla]

Ulla batte Piero Angela.

Eh magari. ;)

[Sideritis]

Si quello è il Beluchistan, immagino. Ma il cognome italiano Bellucci deriva da un nome diffuso nel Medioevo, Bello, più il suffisso -uccio. Da Bello sono derivati tantissimi cognomi in Italia: Bellini, Belli, Bellucci, Bellotti, Bellotto, Di Bello, De Bellis...

Sicuramtente e la stessa radice. Ha dire la verita ho sentito la storia dei Belluci che provenivano dal Irano, nella bio di Monica Belluci.

[alfieb]

Ce anche la version che Bellucci proviene da una tribu nella Persia, pero non lo so.

Reminds me of the (incorrect) attempts at claiming the etymology of Mussolini being that his ancestors were immigrants from Mossoul, Iraq. :lol:

[Tiberio]

Eh magari. ;)

Fidati di me :D

[Ulla]

Sicuramtente e la stessa radice. Ha dire la verita ho sentito la storia dei Belluci che provenivano dal Irano, nella bio di Monica Belluci.

L'avevo già letta questa storia in qualche forum. Senza tanti giri di parole, quella che i Bellucci provengano dall'Iran è una enorme cazzata. :D Bellucci è un cognome estremamente diffuso in Umbria e nell'Italia centrale dove è nata Monica Bellucci. Lei è proprio di lì e direi che è piuttosto tipica per quelle zone.

[Tacitus]

Italo-Albanian churches:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?145907-Italian-churches-Chiese-italiane&p=3100545&viewfull=1#post3100545 (the first one)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?145907-Italian-churches-Chiese-italiane&p=3274377&viewfull=1#post3274377

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?145907-Italian-churches-Chiese-italiane&p=3157272&viewfull=1#post3157272

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?145907-Italian-churches-Chiese-italiane&p=3157724&viewfull=1#post3157724

[Panormus]

It's strange but the only who claim about separatism are the americans like you, because the indipendendism movementes here take insignificant numbers of votes.

All these guidos claiming that Sicily doesn't belong to Italy , make me laugh so much. Luckily they aren't italians so their opinion is worth nothing :laugh:

[alfieb]

Sicily doesn't belong to anyone. The Italians knew this, which is why they gave autonomy in the first place. Autonomy for Sicily is older than the Republic of Italy and autonomy of any other region in the country.

[Tiberio]

All these guidos claiming that Sicily doesn't belong to Italy , make me laugh so much. Luckily they aren't italians so their opinion is worth nothing :laugh:

We are historicaly and culturally close with mainlander southern Italy, so if we are not italians also they aren't italians at all. Ma sappiamo che non è vero. Non sono due secoli di occupazione musulmana ad averci escluso dall'Italia perché sappiamo bene che il grande Federico II (re anche di 3/4 di Italia) li ha spazzati via definitivamente.

[Ulla]

Sicily doesn't belong to anyone. The Italians knew this, which is why they gave autonomy in the first place. Autonomy for Sicily is older than the Republic of Italy and autonomy of any other region in the country.

Being that Sicily is an island is pretty obvious that has a more autonomous history than some inland regions. But honestly Alfieb I have never met in real life a Sicilian that doesn't feel Italian.

[alfieb]

Being that Sicily is an island is pretty obvious that has a more autonomous history than some inland regions. But honestly Alfieb I have never met in real life a Sicilian that doesn't feel Italian.
Sicily has been part of Italy for 150 years, which is longer than anyone has been alive, longer than even their parents have been alive, so of course Sicilians feel Italian. I myself date mainland Southern Italian girls regularly and I support the Azzurri and AC Milan. I've never implied otherwise. I don't even know why siparatismu sicilianu has been mentioned.

As an individual, I support autonomist parties and would like Sicily to be independent in my lifetime. I do not support independence today as Sicily is not ready.

This is all OT. Thread is about Arbereshe.

[Tiberio]

The flags.

http://s22.postimg.org/rr0c8tqfl/Bandiera_dei_Siculo_Arb_resh.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

http://s22.postimg.org/hczifl5ox/flamuri_arberia.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Tiberio]

http://contessioto.blogspot.it/2014/03/significato-di-arbereshe-e-liti-ovvero.html

Cognomi Arberesh di San Benedetto Ullano (Shën Bendhiti): Musacchio, Loizzi, Costantino, Conforti, Chimenti, Milano, Matera, Manes, De Angelis, Cribari, Iusi, Blasi, Mazzuca, Caruso, Rodotà, Corsini, Jannotti, Juliano, Fortino, Carnevale, Martino, Capparelli, Santoro, Barbuto, Basile, Zoccoli, Chiappetta, Tavolaro (Tavulari).

[Tiberio]

Sugli Arbereshe ho trovato il video di questa conferenza
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0-qhw6nLrg

[Tiberio]

Miss Arbereshe 2010
http://youtu.be/iKEC6oTYnmk

[dralos]

Miss Arbereshe 2010
http://youtu.be/iKEC6oTYnmk
i saw 2 gypsy wannabe arberesh and one very rare individual but they all speak italian, i think some are probably lying just to enter the contest

[Highlands]

Nice thread! I have quite a few genetic matches in Sicily and Southern Italy on 23andme :)

[Ulla]

http://contessioto.blogspot.it/2014/03/significato-di-arbereshe-e-liti-ovvero.html

Cognomi Arberesh di San Benedetto Ullano (Shën Bendhiti): Musacchio, Loizzi, Costantino, Conforti, Chimenti, Milano, Matera, Manes, De Angelis, Cribari, Iusi, Blasi, Mazzuca, Caruso, Rodotà, Corsini, Jannotti, Juliano, Fortino, Carnevale, Martino, Capparelli, Santoro, Barbuto, Basile, Zoccoli, Chiappetta, Tavolaro (Tavulari).

Not all these surnames are exclusively Arbereshe. Costantino, Martino and De Angelis are panitalian found mostly in the South in those variants, Caruso is typical Sicilian, Santoro mean "all the Saints", Corsini and Zoccoli are Northern Italian surnames, Blasi and Chimenti are Central-South Italian surnames...

[Tiberio]

Not all these surnames are exclusively Arbereshe. Costantino, Martino and De Angelis are panitalian found mostly in the South in those variants, Caruso is typical Sicilian, Santoro mean "all the Saints", Corsini and Zoccoli are Northern Italian surnames, Blasi and Chimenti are Central-South Italian surnames...

Yes this link said the surnames present in a San Benedetto Ullano, many of them are Italians. Typical Arbereshe surnames are Bellusci, Petyx, Musacchio et al.

[Ulla]

Yes this link said the surnames present in a San Benedetto Ullano, many of them are Italians. Typical Arbereshe surnames are Bellusci, Petyx, Musacchio et al.

Molto interessante il link che hai pubblicato. A Contessa Entellina vivono sia Arbereshe sia di etnia che di rito religioso (ortodossi e cattolici di rito greco), e sia i "latini" (>Italiani) sia di etnia che di rito religioso (cattolici). Ma poi esistono quelli "misti", e così abbiano Latini/Italiani che si sono convertiti al rito greco e Arbereshe che sono diventati cattolici al 100%.

http://contessioto.blogspot.it/2014/03/significato-di-arbereshe-e-liti-ovvero.html

[Tiberio]

Molto interessante il link che hai pubblicato. A Contessa Entellina vivono sia Arbereshe sia di etnia che di rito religioso (ortodossi e cattolici di rito greco), e sia i "latini" (>Italiani) sia di etnia che di rito religioso (cattolici). Ma poi esistono quelli "misti", e così abbiano Latini/Italiani che si sono convertiti al rito greco e Arbereshe che sono diventati cattolici al 100%.

http://contessioto.blogspot.it/2014/03/significato-di-arbereshe-e-liti-ovvero.html

Ci sono stati diversi Arbereshe che durante l'esodo arrivarono in città e paesi già abitati da gente locale e si assimilarono a loro.

[altin]

lol
I know about Arbana's castle. And again they ARE the same thing, it's just different dialects. Let it go :)

It's the evolution of the expression 'gold made'. The predecessor of 'ar' was 'al'.
When al became ar, al-ban became ar-ban.
When ban became ben ar-ban became ar-ben.
When ben became bën ar-ben became ar-bën.
When bën became bër ar-bën became ar-bër.
From bër derives bërësh, hence ar-bërësh / arbëresh.
All the above words exist as names in Albanian.

The word 'al' with the meaning gold exists as part of several words:
* thes + ar = thesar. In a previous form it was thesal. Greeks as usual have added an 'os' to have thesalos. The sister of Alexander was called Thesalonica.
* ar + kemi <= al + kimi = alkimi - to have gold - the art of obtaining gold by transforming other materials.
* Italian word for morning is 'alba' = al ba => ar bër - gold made, because in the morning the sky looks like made of gold. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108135522.htm)
* And in Turkish altin means gold.

Since Greeks read 'b' as 'v', arban becomes arvan from which arvanit derives.

There are other arguments supporting this, but by theapricity standards this should be more than enough. :)

[Sakis]

It's the evolution of the expression 'gold made'. The predecessor of 'ar' was 'al'.
When al became ar, al-ban became ar-ban.
When ban became ben ar-ban became ar-ben.
When ben became bën ar-ben became ar-bën.
When bën became bër ar-bën became ar-bër.
From bër derives bërësh, hence ar-bërësh / arbëresh.
All the above words exist as names in Albanian.

The word 'al' with the meaning gold exists as part of several words:
* thes + ar = thesar. In a previous form it was thesal. Greeks as usual have added an 'os' to have thesalos. The sister of Alexander was called Thesalonica.
* ar + kemi <= al + kimi = alkimi - to have gold - the art of obtaining gold by transforming other materials.
* Italian word for morning is 'alba' = al ba => ar bër - gold made, because in the morning the sky looks like made of gold. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108135522.htm)
* And in Turkish altin means gold.

Since Greeks read 'b' as 'v', arban becomes arvan from which arvanit derives.

There are other arguments supporting this, but by theapricity standards this should be more than enough. :)

The word alchemy has nothing to do with gold


The word alchemy was borrowed from Old French alquemie, alkimie, taken from Medieval Latin alchymia, and which is in turn borrowed from Arabic al-kīmiyā’ (الكيمياء‎) ‘philosopher's stone’. The Arabic word is borrowed from Late Greek chēmeía (χημεία), chēmía (χημία) ‘black magic’ with the agglutination of the Arabic definite article al- (الـ‎).This ancient Greek word was derived from the early Greek name for Egypt, Chēmia (Χημία), based on the Egyptian name for Egypt, kēme (hieroglyphic khmi, lit. ‘black earth’, as opposed to red desert sand).

The Medieval Latin form was influenced by Greek chymeia (χυμεία) meaning ‘mixture’ and referring to pharmaceutical chemistry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy

[altin]

The word alchemy has nothing to do with gold



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy

It's wrong. Both al = ar and kimi = kemi give the right explanation for what the word means: 'to obtain gold', which is what alkimi was about.

[Tacitus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0YI9nEUp-g

[Tacitus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crf_2ZsdovM

[Sideritis]

GRUPI ARBERESH "KYCET E ZEMRES"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW0-5ufba7A

[Tacitus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crf_2ZsdovM

HUGE thanks to Sideritis for translating the dialogue from 5:00-8:15. It's a dramatization of the start of the exodus out of Albania to Italy.

[Scanderbeg]
You! Ou!
Where did you go, when you were alive?
(didn't understand well) that was controled by ( NATO!)
and command all the Italian lands (ground)
(something Sicily)
Everything is so close, is not that far(wide)
We are the land and they are the sea.

I am like a rock
because they ( something) give you land,
So you settle in a village and house.
So our sons could grow with our traditions, language ,
with the freedom that we have contruscted here.
I told them: that us in Italy,( something) the house that has been done in Arberia.
Motherland, we have seen friendship , my heart is with you.
Keep on moving, because good luck is with you, keep on moving
my soul is with you, keep on moving
And remember that is graved 1 thing among you, there is graved
the soul of Arberia.

The girl.\

( don't know exactly)
Let's go all together, let's go
Let's start and go

The other women/
Lets all go to Italy, because they have people
that wait for us.
There you have lands and house.
Take all you have and let's all go in Italy.
Let's go friends/

( don't know)
We are all sorry for leaving the rocks, the land, the house
( don't know)
Lets go because new land is waiting for us;
So lets get all together and lets go

The other girl/
Let's take a hand( punch) full of snow and start our trip.

[Sideritis]

Arberesh Wedding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYTlqdq1mS0

[caviezel]

gli arbereshe sono italiani, pochi cazzi. siggail viva il duce!

[Ianus]

It's the evolution of the expression 'gold made'. The predecessor of 'ar' was 'al'.
When al became ar, al-ban became ar-ban.
When ban became ben ar-ban became ar-ben.
When ben became bën ar-ben became ar-bën.
When bën became bër ar-bën became ar-bër.
From bër derives bërësh, hence ar-bërësh / arbëresh.
All the above words exist as names in Albanian.

The word 'al' with the meaning gold exists as part of several words:
* thes + ar = thesar. In a previous form it was thesal. Greeks as usual have added an 'os' to have thesalos. The sister of Alexander was called Thesalonica.
* ar + kemi <= al + kimi = alkimi - to have gold - the art of obtaining gold by transforming other materials.
* Italian word for morning is 'alba' = al ba => ar bër - gold made, because in the morning the sky looks like made of gold. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108135522.htm)
* And in Turkish altin means gold.

Since Greeks read 'b' as 'v', arban becomes arvan from which arvanit derives.

There are other arguments supporting this, but by theapricity standards this should be more than enough. :)

Alba come from Latin alba, derived from adjective albus which means White.

[Sideritis]

There is also this thread here http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?25404-Arb%EBresh%EBt-n%EB-Itali

[Tiberio]

Biancavilla (Catania)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biancavilla