Scytho-Turkic Z93 branch Z2125 vs. Indo-Aryan migration theory

[lameduck]

any info regarding its frequency in Pakistan and among which groups?

[Proto-Shaman]

any info regarding its frequency in Pakistan and among which groups?
Z93 general or specific Z2125 mutation?

[lameduck]

....

[Proto-Shaman]

^^ Z93 general.
If you want to get the full data concerning the frequency of Z93 in Pakistan you have to get the full access for the Underhill et al 2014 paper.

[lameduck]

^^ thanks I found an informative publication by some Pakistani university on groups in the country will go through it.

[Proto-Shaman]

^^ thanks I found an informative publication by some Pakistani university on groups in the country will go through it.
Here are most subclades of Z93. Pakistan Z93 looks like M780:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yo928Hon9Ww/UzN-U-aGWMI/AAAAAAAAJiM/3AE7m5bNwCY/s1600/ejhg201450f3.jpg

[Velda]

scythians are not turkic

They were light haired Indoeuropean people

Probably some 100 years ago, like this girl ?
http://img4.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/63206571kalashaiywt62glv.jpg (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)

[Pahli]

Probably some 100 years ago, like this girl ?
http://img4.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/63206571kalashaiywt62glv.jpg (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)

More Iranid-ish looking, but that is a close bet

[zarzian]

Proto-turks were in Siberia still, at the time of the Scythians.

[Pahli]

Proto-turks were in Siberia still, at the time of the Scythians.

I'm pretty sure the Scythians that migrated Eastwards, mixed with Mongolians which resulted in Turkic people, same for Tocharians

[Danishmend]

Who deleted my post? Whoever did it, fuck you.

[Proto-Shaman]

Who deleted my post? Whoever did it, fuck you.
lol bro, I wasn't it. Try to answer in a civil manner, even if you are provoked, don't provoke back. I mean it good with you.

[Cleitus]

I think Turkic ethnicity is a result of a Mongol women and an Aryan men. This is why Turks get highly r1a and r1b in Central Asia.

This is true.

[Proto-Shaman]

This is true.
The only truth I guess :rolleyes:

[Cleitus]

The only truth I guess :rolleyes:
Klar was dachtest du :thumb001:

[Proto-Shaman]

Klar was dachtest du :thumb001:
Von einem Albaner mit Nietzsche Gedankengut? War ja auch nicht anders zu erwarten. Zoroaster hätte sich gefreut :p

[Alphawolf]

This is true.

This is also true:



Größeren Erfolg hatte Venedig bei der Unterstützung des albanischen
Widerstandes unter Skanderbeg, da Meḥmed dessen Versorgungswege über die
Adria nicht blockieren konnte und es seinen regulären Truppen nicht gelang, in
die unwirtlichen Gebirge Albaniens vorzudringen. Schließlich überließ er
Albanien irregulären turkmenischen Verbänden aus Anatolien, die im Laufe der
Zeit die albanische Bevölkerung dezimierten und sich schließlich in diesem
Gebiet ständig niederließen, so den Grundstock der muslimischen Bevölkerung
bildend, die heute Albanien bewohnt.

(Fischer Weltgeschichte)


http://ir.nmu.org.ua/bitstream/handle/123456789/137764/fa75b292b4a3518232a2f17afebf6025.pdf?sequence=1

[Cleitus]

This is also true:

Bullshit Albanians score fully Tuscan. Es war Albanern schon immer verboten sich mit einer dreckigen bastard rasse wie den Türken zu vermischen siehe Kanun des Leke Dukagjini. Ich kann meine Väterliche sowohl als auch meine mütterliche linie 500 Jahre zurückverfolgen, dass können Bastarde wie Türken nicht.

[Proto-Shaman]

Bullshit Albanians score fully Tuscan. Es war Albanern schon immer verboten sich mit einer dreckigen bastard rasse wie den Türken zu vermischen siehe Kanun des Leke Dukagjini. Ich kann meine Väterliche sowohl als auch meine mütterliche linie 500 Jahre zurückverfolgen, dass können Bastarde wie Türken nicht.

And Tuscans fully score Anatolian Turkic. klingelt es? Etruskische Vorfahren der Albaner!

[Weedman]

yet another, "Golden Woman" Scythian princess found in Kazahstan Terekti
description on the comb shows a war between Scythians and Iranians. so that's a big evidence, Scythians can't be fucking iranians


and your last statement is not true

what makes you or anyone else think people who spoke the same language or same language family didn't fight each other?


its a well known fact Sarmatian tribes fought Scythians and vice versa a they also fought against other neighbors, Greeks etc....
besides, this comes from the later era not the proto-Indo-European or Indo-Iranian period.

that's a little bit late in the time frame to be arguing for who the first Indo-Iranic or Indo-Europeans were.

the time you are talking about they had already settled and mixed with others, This stuff you show came from later.

you probably don't even know that the earliest kurgan burials came from south of the Caucasus and not even from the steppe or central asia, do you?

[gültekin]

you're a fucking idiot.

and you statement is not true.

what the fuck makes you or anyone else think people who spoke the same language or same language family didn't fight each other?

don^t be so rude made
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Issyk_inscription.png
look this ^ to you like this script v
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Loulan_kharosthi_document.jpg
or like this v
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Orkhon_script_8th_century_wt.jpg

[Pahli]

and your last statement is not true

what makes you or anyone else think people who spoke the same language or same language family didn't fight each other?


its a well known fact Sarmatian tribes fought Scythians and vice versa a they also fought against other neighbors, Greeks etc....
besides, this comes from the later era not the proto-Indo-European or Indo-Iranian period.

that's a little bit late in the time frame to be arguing for who the first Indo-Iranic or Indo-Europeans were.

the time you are talking about they had already settled and mixed with others, This stuff you show came from later.

you probably don't even know that the earliest kurgan burials came from south of the Caucasus and not even from the steppe or central asia, do you?

Yep. Even Turkic people fought eachother :)

[Kamal900]

And Tuscans fully score Anatolian Turkic. klingelt es? Etruskische Vorfahren der Albaner!

Turanist propaganda. The southern Italians do have some Anatolian input, but it is NOT a Turkic admixture but rather indigenous west Asian anatolians.

[Proto-Shaman]

Turanist propaganda. The southern Italians do have some Anatolian input, but it is NOT a Turkic admixture but rather indigenous west Asian anatolians.
If Turkic Turanists have no right to claim, so let the European Turanists decide xD

[Kamal900]

If Turkic Turanists have no right to claim, so let the European Turanists decide xD

There are no such thing as European "Turanists", and Turks are mostly genetically native. Deal with it. Turkic is just a linguistic definition, and most Turkic peoples around the globe have non-Turkic ancestries in their gene pools.

[Kamal900]

don^t be so rude made
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Issyk_inscription.png
look this ^ to you like this script v
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Loulan_kharosthi_document.jpg
or like this v
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Orkhon_script_8th_century_wt.jpg

Scythians were Iranic, and they have nothing to do with Turkic peoples at all. Sarmatians, who are a sub-tribe of the Scythian race, fought among each other and to other peoples in the past. The Alans were the only surviving Sarmatians that weren't assimilated to the non-Iranic peoples, and the modern day Ossetians are descendants from their Alanic ancestors. Turkic script is descendent from the Sogdian script which in itself is descendant from the Aramaic script.

Here are some examples of the ossetians. Do they look Turkic to you?
https://newgeorgianyouth.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/ossetians-meeting-12.jpg
http://ossetians.com/pictures/Valerik_xhasty%20nuazan.jpg
http://thefamilywithoutborders.com/wp-content/gallery/2010-08-16_georgia-refugees-camp/04_Georgia_Refugee_Camp.jpg

"Overall, Ossetians are more distant from the other Indo-European-speaking populations from the Caucasus (Armenians; average Fst = 0.030) than from Caucasian-speaking populations (average Fst = 0.026), although these values are not significantly different (t = 1.430, p = 0.212). However, Ossetians are significantly closer to Iranian-speaking populations from Isfahan and Tehran (average Fst = 0.019) than to Caucasianspeaking populations (average Fst = 0.027; t = -2.564, p = 0.026). The same trend holds when we compare haplotype sharing between Ossetian and Iranian populations versus Ossetians and their closest geographic neighbors from the Caucasus. South Ossetians share just 4% of their mtDNA sequences with Georgians, whereas they share 12% and 19% of their mtDNA sequences with Iranian-speaking groups from Isfahan and Tehran respectively. The haplotype sharing between North Ossetians and Iranian groups varies from 13% to 31%. With Ingushians, their closest eastern geographic neighbours, North Ossetians share from 22% to 33% of their mtDNA sequences. With Kabardinians, their closest western geographic neighbours, North Ossetians share 26% to 54% of their mtDNA sequences. This relatively high percentage of shared haplotypes between North Ossetians and their closest geographic neighbours can be explained by recent gene exchange among these groups."

Excerpts from the "Results" section, "Y-SNP Haplogroups" subsection:

"Haplogroup E* (YAP) was found only in South Ossetians (Wells et al. 2001), and haplogroup C* (RPS4Y) was completely absent. The most frequent haplogroup among North Ossetians was G* (M201). Unfortunately, M201 was not typed in South Ossetians by Wells et al. (2001); therefore, it is impossible to distinguish between haplogroups G* (M201) and F* (M89) in this group: the latter is the most frequent haplogroup in South Ossetians. In our analyses these individuals were classified as haplogroup F* (M89), although some unknown proportion could be haplogroup G* (M201). We therefore classified all haplogroup G* (M201) North Ossetian individuals as haplogroup F* (M89) in order to be able to use Y-SNP data from South Ossetians for the MDS and Fst analyses. Haplogroup I* (M170) was found in substantial frequencies in groups from Digora and Ardon, whereas this haplogroup is absent from the rest of the groups. Haplogroup J2* (M172) was found in all groups, with frequencies ranging from 0.03 in the Digora group to 0.29 in the Ardon group. Haplogroup K* (M9) was found in all groups except for South Ossetians and the Digora group."

Exceprts from the "Discussion" section:

"The results are somewhat different for mtDNA vs. the Y-chromosome. North and South Ossetians do cluster somewhat in the MDS plot based on mtDNA (Fig. 2A), which may indicate a common origin. However, for the Y-chromosome, North Ossetians are more similar to other North Caucasian populations, and South Ossetians to other South Caucasian populations, than to each other. The SAMOVA analysis also identifies a boundary between South Ossetians and other groups for the Y chromosome, but not for mtDNA. Thus, there is no indication in the Y-chromosome of a particularly close genetic relationship between N. Ossetians and S. Ossetians. If they did have a common origin in the past, it has apparently become obscured by subsequent gene flow with their geographic neighbours on the same sides of the Caucasus Mountains. [...] Subsequent and largely male-mediated migrations between Ossetians and neighbouring groups in the North and South Caucasus, respectively, would explain the greater similarity between Ossetians and Caucasians for the Y-chromosome, as discussed previously. In conclusion, the genetic results are supported by the archaeological record, in that they reflect a common Iranian origin of South and North Ossetians, as well as a genetic footprint of ancient migrations in the North Caucasus that mostly involved male individuals."
Ivan Nasidze, D. Quinque, I. Dupanloup, S. Rychkov, O. Naumova, O. Zhukova, and Mark Stoneking. "Genetic evidence concerning the origins of South and North Ossetians." Annals of Human Genetics (November 2004) 68 (Part 6): pages 588-599. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15598217)

http://home.exetel.com.au/thrace/skythes.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

There are no such thing as European "Turanists", and Turks are mostly genetically native. Deal with it. Turkic is just a linguistic definition, and most Turkic peoples around the globe have non-Turkic ancestries in their gene pools.
Nobody really knows what Turkics really are. Ask Partizan for more info concerning Anatolian Turkics.

[Pennywise]

Scythians were Iranic, and they have nothing to do with Turkic peoples at all. Sarmatians, who are a sub-tribe of the Scythian race, fought among each other and to other peoples in the past. The Alans were the only surviving Sarmatians that weren't assimilated to the non-Iranic peoples, and the modern day Ossetians are descendants from their Alanic ancestors. Turkic script is descendent from the Sogdian script which in itself is descendant from the Aramaic script.

-Scythians weren't a race. You spent your years on anthro forums, read countless article about genetics and anthropology like a maniac to use against people on forums but still don't know the difference between ethnic and race. Besides, Scythians ethnically weren't even homogenic.

-Turkic scprit wasn't derived from Sogdian alphabet as a whole but influenced. Turkic script contains around 19 Turkic tamgas which were much older than all alphabetic systems.

-Showing some Ossetian peoples' photo and say "They look Turkic?" is idiotic. There is no stereotypical Turkic looking.

[Kamal900]

Nobody really knows what Turkics really are. Ask Partizan for more info concerning Anatolian Turkics.

Not for anthropologists and linguists. They can tell you that many of the Turkic peoples living in central asia and other places are descendant of pre-Turkic inhabitants like Iranic, Ugric and etc, and each Turkic people have dynamic amount of Mongoloid ancestry in their gene pool. Being Turkic like in any ethno-linguistic identity is mostly based on language and identity than based on race and genetics.

[Kamal900]

-Scythians weren't a race. You spent your years on anthro forums, read countless article about genetics and anthropology like a maniac to use against people on forums but still don't know the difference between ethnic and race. Besides, Scythians ethnically weren't even homogenic.

-Turkic scprit wasn't derived from Sogdian alphabet as a whole but influenced. Turkic script contains around 19 Turkic tamgas which were much older than all alphabetic systems.

-Showing some Ossetian peoples' photo and say "They look Turkic?" is idiotic. There is no stereotypical Turkic looking.

Thats idiotic beyond belief, and the oldest alphabet in existence was the Phoenician alphabet which all of the world's alphabets are descended from. When i said "race" i meant as a people or ethnicity. I agree that the scythians weren't homogenous racially or genetically, and i agree that the Scythians living in Siberia and East Asia had maternal east-Asian lineages like the Tocharians, BUT we know that the Scythians ARE Iranic, and they are predominately west Eurasian ancestry. As i told to Kipchack, being Turkic is not based on racial or genetic background, and its mostly a linguistic identity regardless of ancestry.

[Pennywise]

Thats idiotic beyond belief, and the oldest alphabet in existence was the Phoenician alphabet which all of the world's alphabets are descended from. When i said "race" i meant as a people or ethnicity. I agree that the scythians weren't homogenous racially or genetically, and i agree that the Scythians living in Siberia and East Asia had maternal east-Asian lineages like the Tocharians, BUT we know that the Scythians ARE Iranic, and they are predominately west Eurasian ancestry. As i told to Kipchack, being Turkic is not based on racial or genetic background, and its mostly a linguistic identity regardless of ancestry.

Tamgas are from bronz and neolithic period, even there are stone age tamgas excist. Of course those are not alpahabet by themselves. Read correctly what I said.

All ethnics are based on cultural and lingustic background, no one have homogeneous genetic background. You know this but still blabbering about it.

[Varhun]

Tamgas are from bronz and neolithic period, even there are stone age tamgas excist. Of course those are not alpahabet by themselves. Read correctly what I said.

All ethnics are based on cultural and lingustic background, no one have homogeneous genetic background. You know this but still blabbering about it.
Tamgas resulted from bronze age central asian clan petroglyphs.

[Arhat]

This thread is The biggest fucking joke here. People descending from some Para-semites believe they are direct descendants of Dschingis Khan and than claim they are also descendants of Scythians :picard2: Good that my R1a brothers from Russia took revenge for the genocide of Saka/Scythians some centuries ago in Siberia and Central Asia

[Pennywise]

This thread is The biggest fucking joke here. People descending from some Para-semites believe they are direct descendants of Dschingis Khan and than claim they are also descendants of Scythians :picard2: Good that my R1a brothers from Russia took revenge for the genocide of Saka/Scythians some centuries ago in Siberia and Central Asia

Your r1a brothers? xD You Persian mongrel, when Slavic/North European Russians became your brother?

[Arhat]

Your r1a brothers? xD You Persian mongrel, when Slavic/North European Russians became your brother?

Lol Neolithic farmer scum. I have zero Persian ancestry and I am half Russian carrying R1a. Real mongolic Turks are ok I never heard this pan-turanian bullshit from them but Pseudo-Semites from Anatolia are just annoying wannabe Mongols. You are even not a real Turk and make a DNA test so that you know from which gypsy tribe you are. I guess E like Africans

[Pennywise]

Lol Neolithic farmer scum. I have zero Persian ancestry and I am half Russian carrying R1a. Real mongolic Turks are ok I never heard this pan-turanian bullshit from them but Pseudo-Semites from Anatolia are just annoying wannabe Mongols. You are even not a real Turk and make a DNA test so that you know from which gypsy tribe you are. I guess E like Africans

LOL. You just admitted that you are mongrel :D I usually don't argue with imbecile OWDs who blame people with being OWD.

[Arhat]

LOL. You just admitted that you are mongrel :D I usually don't argue with imbecile OWDs who blame people with being OWD.

I would prefer to be an African than to be a confused wannabe sumerian-scythian-mongolic-turanian-whatever. Lol Anatolia is the nation of mongrels and a mix of the most ugliest crap you get in this world. Stop claiming Scythian ancestry and better also stop claiming Turkic ancestry . YOU ARE JUST A LOCAL gypsy WHO CAN NOT ACCEPT THAT.

[Böri]

Only Turks can claim to be Scythian, Massagets descent as historical and genetic things show. DNA tests to modern Turks also reveal Scyths Massagets people genetics as there is a parallel in Mongoloid and North Eurasian genes in Turks, NE 1,5 to 2 times higher always and when Mongoloid low NE also low. So Scythians were majority NE genes with minority West Asian like their mummies show. Oghuz Turkic hordes coming here thousand year ago were like 1/3 Mong. 1/2 NE and rest West Asian.

[aksakallicocuk]

. YOU ARE JUST A LOCAL gypsy WHO CAN NOT ACCEPT THAT.
You are a 3D hologram who can't accept that.

[aksakallicocuk]

BTW i don't think schtians are Turkic. But they are definetely ancestral to Turkic peoples. They described similar to Kıpchaks.

[Pennywise]

I would prefer to be an African than to be a confused wannabe sumerian-scythian-mongolic-turanian-whatever. Lol Anatolia is the nation of mongrels and a mix of the most ugliest crap you get in this world. Stop claiming Scythian ancestry and better also stop claiming Turkic ancestry . YOU ARE JUST A LOCAL gypsy WHO CAN NOT ACCEPT THAT.

Says the mongrel who thinks all human beings who carry the R1a haplogroup are brothers xD Tell you what, you probably got that R1a with rape. And I assume your proud R1a carrier Russkie ancestors were brothers and sisters. It is explain your brain damage.

[Pahli]

Only Turks can claim to be Scythian, Massagets descent as historical and genetic things show. DNA tests to modern Turks also reveal Scyths Massagets people genetics as there is a parallel in Mongoloid and North Eurasian genes in Turks, NE 1,5 to 2 times higher always and when Mongoloid low NE also low. So Scythians were majority NE genes with minority West Asian like their mummies show. Oghuz Turkic hordes coming here thousand year ago were like 1/3 Mong. 1/2 NE and rest West Asian.

Iranians can claim on it too, also you're only partly descendants of Scythians, you're also heavily iranized by other Iranic groups. The Turks simply copy pasted the Scythians a lot, except language, culture and behaviour.

[Pennywise]

Iranians can claim on it too, also you're only partly descendants of Scythians, you're also heavily iranized by other Iranic groups. The Turks simply copy pasted the Scythians a lot, except language, culture and behaviour.

You are not in a position to speak on behalf of neither Iranians nor Scythians Kurd. It's non of your bussines. Fuck off.

[Böri]

Iranians can claim on it too, also you're only partly descendants of Scythians, you're also heavily iranized by other Iranic groups. The Turks simply copy pasted the Scythians a lot, except language, culture and behaviour.

This doesnt matter as Oghuzes were the main descents of Scythians, mixed with Huns. Two prestigious people mixed into one and creation of Oghuz Turks who also became prestigious as you consider Seljuks, Ottomans ending with Turkey. Scythians, Massagets could be Indo European but not Iranians I think. Also I don't have Iranic ancestry as I don't have any Kurdish, Zaza, Persian, Armenian ancestry. I am not even Anatolian so this couldn't happen in the last thousand year either way

[Pennywise]

This doesnt matter as Oghuzes were the main descents of Scythians, mixed with Huns. Two prestigious people mixed into one and creation of Oghuz Turks who also became prestigious as you consider Seljuks, Ottomans ending with Turkey. Scythians, Massagets could be Indo European but not Iranians I think. Also I don't have Iranic ancestry as I don't have any Kurdish, Zaza, Persian, Armenian ancestry. I am not even Anatolian so this couldn't happen in the last thousand year either way

Why do you even bother to argue this subject with him?

[Pahli]

This doesnt matter as Oghuzes were the main descents of Scythians, mixed with Huns. Two prestigious people mixed into one and creation of Oghuz Turks who also became prestigious as you consider Seljuks, Ottomans ending with Turkey. Scythians, Massagets could be Indo European but not Iranians I think. Also I don't have Iranic ancestry as I don't have any Kurdish, Zaza, Persian, Armenian ancestry. I am not even Anatolian so this couldn't happen in the last thousand year either way

It is widely known that both the Scythians and Massagataes were Iranian. The Iranic speaking ethnicities are all Indo-Iranians, likewise with the Scythians and Massagatae, they later split up into two language groups, West and East. All Iranic speaking groups have some connection to eachother, doesn't neccesarily mean they have to speak the same language, look the same or have 100% the same genetics. The Turks are a hybrid race of Iranian (most likely Scythian) and Mongol ancestry. This doesn't mean you can claim to be the rightful descendants of the Scythians. Your language, culture, appearance and even genetics prove this.

[Pennywise]

It is widely known that both the Scythians and Massagataes were Iranian. The Iranic speaking ethnicities are all Indo-Iranians, likewise with the Scythians and Massagatae, they later split up into two language groups, West and East. All Iranic speaking groups have some connection to eachother, doesn't neccesarily mean they have to speak the same language, look the same. They have 100% the same genetics. The Turks are a hybrid race of Iranian (most likely Scythian) and Mongol ancestry. This doesn't mean you can claim to be the rightful descendants of the Scythians. Your language, culture, appearance and even genetics prove this.

%100 Same Genetics!!!??

http://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

You are slowly showing your true face and intelligence. :laugh:

[Pahli]

You are not in a position to speak on behalf of neither Iranians nor Scythians Kurd. It's non of your bussines. Fuck off.

Well I can make it my business as much as I can butthurt Turk :D

[Pahli]

%100 Same Genetics!!!??

http://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

You are slowly showing your true face and intelligence. :laugh:

I was using examples you dumbwit, are you still enjoying yourself over a serious discussion? :rolleyes:

[Pennywise]

I was using examples you dumbwit, are you still enjoying yourself over a serious discussion? :rolleyes:

I swear to God I'm really laughing infront of my computer. Allah will award you for this. xD

[Pahli]

I swear to God I'm really laughing infront of my computer. Allah will award you for this. xD

Of course you're laughing at your own miserable life praising Pan-Retardism :rolleyes:

[Pennywise]

Of course you're laughing at your own miserable life praising Pan-Retardism :rolleyes:

LOL. Are you even serious? the guy who claim all Iranic speakers from past to future, were, are and will always shares %100 same genetics call me "pan-retard" :D you are the dummest member of this forum I've ever seen.

[Pahli]

LOL. Are you even serious? the guy who claim all Iranic speakers from past to future, were, are and will always shares %100 same genetics call me "pan-retard" :D you are the dummest member of this forum I've ever seen.

Once again I do not claim we share the same genetics nor that we are the same people. You're terrible at English. I was counter-arguing Witness, while you're trolling like a 10 year old kid :)

[Pennywise]

Once again I do not claim we share the same genetics nor that we are the same people. You're terrible at English. I was counter-arguing Witness, while you're trolling like a 10 year old kid :)

You can always change my sentence if it is so bad. It will always has the same meaning: "You're nothing but a no lifer dummie kıro"

[Arhat]

Says the mongrel who thinks all human beings who carry the R1a haplogroup are brothers xD Tell you what, you probably got that R1a with rape. And I assume your proud R1a carrier Russkie ancestors were brothers and sisters. It is explain your brain damage.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no my paternal line is not Russian and is Z93/Z94 like Scythians and because of that i get pissed of by some unibrow ugly wannabe Scytho-Sumerian-Mongols whatever who try to steal the history of my people. I don't try to steal the history of your gypsy unibrow incest ancestors, which were busy in fucking goats and being slaves of other people, like you try to steal the history of my ancestors. So get a life and don't even try to link yourself with them. Tatars and Central Asian Turks have much Scythian ancestry because defeated Scythians were assimilated by Turks BUT NOT YOU. This kind of Pan-Retardism is just getting funnier and funnier.

[Arhat]

LOL. Are you even serious? the guy who claim all Iranic speakers from past to future, were, are and will always shares %100 same genetics call me "pan-retard" :D you are the dummest member of this forum I've ever seen.
It does not matter in this "discussion" how much original Iranian admixture modern Iranian people have today because it is still 100X times more than you have.

[Pennywise]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no my paternal line is not Russian and is Z93/Z94 like Scythians and because of that i get pissed of by some unibrow ugly wannabe Scytho-Sumerian-Mongols whatever who try to steal the history of my people. I don't try to steal the history of your gypsy unibrow incest ancestors, which were busy in fucking goats and being slaves of other people, like you try to steal the history of my ancestors. So get a life and don't even try to link yourself with them. Tatars and Central Asian Turks have much Scythian ancestry because defeated Scythians were assimilated by Turks BUT NOT YOU. This kind of Pan-Retardism is just getting funnier and funnier.

No one gives a shit about being Sctyhian here my mongrel friend. And there is no such thing like "your people", you're nothing but a mongrel as you stated.

MUH R1A PPL ARE OF SCYTHIAN WARRIOR DESCENT!! WE ALL BROTHAS!! WE PURE!! YO TURKS ARE NOT WARRIOR YUO FARMER!!

[Arhat]

No one gives a shit about being Sctyhian here my mongrel friend. And there is no such thing like "your people", you're nothing but a mongrel as you stated.

MUH R1A PPL ARE OF SCYTHIAN WARRIOR DESCENT!! WE ALL BROTHAS!! WE PURE!! YO TURKS ARE NOT WARRIOR YUO FARMER!!

Thanks for the laughs farmer gypsy para-Semite. Make a DNA test and prove your Mongoliness . Get over it you are zero related to Saka/Scythians and probably look like an Egyptian. Just stop embarrassing yourself and accept what you are. Pan-retards like you show no evidences and just post their retarded fantasies which are based on irrational ethnocentric beliefs.

[Pennywise]

Thanks for the laughs farmer gypsy para-Semite. Make a DNA test and prove your Mongoliness . Get over it you are zero related to Saka/Scythians and probably look like an Egyptian. Just stop embarrassing yourself and accept what you are. Pan-retards like you show no evidences and just post their retarded fantasies which are based on irrational ethnocentric beliefs.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ba/ba5807e7049f29330e09b11aed67c312cabd2115ba8c3baeff 1512cd196b4c72.jpg



-Learn the difference between Mongols and Turkics. Then come here and shit blood.

-I already told you that no one interesting with being "Scythian" here but since you are a retard, I guess I have to repeat it multiple times.

-I don't have to prove my genetics to anyone, especially to an unknown mongrel. Some Turkish members are already shared their genetic results in here. Check them if you are so interested with Turks.

-You shouldn't argue with people if you forgot your brain home. :no no

[Arhat]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ba/ba5807e7049f29330e09b11aed67c312cabd2115ba8c3baeff 1512cd196b4c72.jpg



-Learn the difference between Mongols and Turkics. Then come here and shit blood.

-I already told you that no one interesting with being "Scythian" here but since you are a retard, I guess I have to repeat it multiple times.

-I don't have to prove my genetics to anyone, especially to an unknown mongrel. Some Turkish members are already shared their genetic results in here. Check them if you are so interested with Turks.

-You shouldn't argue with people if you forgot your brain home. :no no

I have no problems with real Turks or Mongols even when their ancestors genocided. my people. Neither I am a racist and care about this who is superior stuff. But your kind of people are a fucking joke. You were the bitches and slaves of a Turkic elite from Central Asia and now you think because of this that you are "descendants" of steppe warriors but in reality you are just the descendants of Armenian, Greek, Kurdish or Arab pussies which betrayed their own ethnicity and opened their ass for Turks. And stop with your pathetic arrogance towards Kurds or Persians. They are still better than your kind of people and sooner or later the Kurds will take their land back. They have a higher birth rate and get every day stronger

[Pennywise]

I have no problems with real Turks or Mongols even when their ancestors genocided. my people. Neither I am a racist and care about this who is superior stuff.

And then this:



But your kind of people are a fucking joke. You were the bitches and slaves of a Turkic elite from Central Asia and now you think because of this that you are "descendants" of steppe warriors but in reality you are just the descendants of Armenian, Greek, Kurdish or Arab pussies which betrayed their own ethnicity and opened their ass for Turks.

Yeah sure, you are not racist, you're such a peace bird and don't have any hatred towards Turks :laugh: Just fuck off and turn back to your shithole butthurt, you are getting annoying. You are too dumb to be taken serious.

[Arhat]

And then this:




Yeah sure, you are not racist, you're such a peace bird and don't have any hatred towards Turks :laugh: Just fuck off and turn back to your shithole butthurt, you are getting annoying. You are too dumb to be taken serious.

Your people are half incest goats so you don't count as human. Get a life and accept what you are.

[archangel]

I have no problems with real Turks or Mongols even when their ancestors genocided. my people. Neither I am a racist and care about this who is superior stuff. But your kind of people are a fucking joke. You were the bitches and slaves of a Turkic elite from Central Asia and now you think because of this that you are "descendants" of steppe warriors but in reality you are just the descendants of Armenian, Greek, Kurdish or Arab pussies which betrayed their own ethnicity and opened their ass for Turks. And stop with your pathetic arrogance towards Kurds or Persians. They are still better than your kind of people and sooner or later the Kurds will take their land back. They have a hig

her birth rate and get every day stronger


fucking swarthy scum dare to talk North Euroasian Türks like this?i dont know what ancestry you have but i am sure you are below Türks in racial reality cos if you are a slav or germanic then you aren a oval faced,snub nosed baltoid,borreby üntermensch,if you are a sandnigger from iran,mena etc...well you are even below these germanics and slavs

[Arhat]

fucking swarthy scum dare to talk North Euroasian Türks like this?i dont know what ancestry you have but i am sure you are below Türks in racial reality cos if you are a slav or germanic then you aren a oval faced,snub nosed baltoid,borreby üntermensch,if you are a sandnigger from iran,mena etc...well you are even below these germanics and slavs

Lol my Niggro-Semite friend you look like a gypsy and I expect that you are genetically a mix of Goats/Africans/Semites and neolithic farmer slaves. This is a European forum and not a gypsy or Anatolian goat-fucker forum of some wannabe Aryans. You are by the far the ugliest people in Eurasia and not even Mongols. You were just their prostitutes and bitches with a Stockholm syndrom. Get out of this European forum. Make a DNA test Neolithic Basal Eurasian farmer gypsy and tell me to which Neolithic/Mesolithic African tribe you belong. I am not racist actually but your people are basically half incest goats so they don't count as humans anyway. Nobody really wants to hear pan-turanian bullshit about Sumerian- Scythian-Mongols of people being actually neither real Aryans or Turks/Mongols.

[Proto-Shaman]

Lol my Niggro-Semite friend you look like a gypsy and I expect that you are genetically a mix of Goats/Africans/Semites and neolithic farmer slaves. This is a European forum and not a gypsy or Anatolian goat-fucker forum of some wannabe Aryans. You are by the far the ugliest people in Eurasia and not even Mongols. You were just their prostitutes and bitches with a Stockholm syndrom. Get out of this European forum. Make a DNA test Neolithic Basal Eurasian farmer gypsy and tell me to which Neolithic/Mesolithic African tribe you belong. I am not racist actually but your people are basically half incest goats so they don't count as humans anyway. Nobody really wants to hear pan-turanian bullshit about Sumerian- Scythian-Mongols of people being actually neither real Aryans or Turks/Mongols.
Hello my Kurdish friend. Look what the race mixing with Iranics has caused to us... we got downright genetically fucked up... This is not funny at all!

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60520&d=1440966473

[Pennywise]

Hello my Kurdish friend. Look what the race mixing with Iranics has caused to us... we got downright genetically fucked up... This is not funny at all!



Lol. Is this lil cocksucker related with dat Kurdish troll fuck Demhat?

[Arhat]

Hello my Kurdish friend. Look what the race mixing with Iranics has caused to us... we got downright genetically fucked up... This is not funny at all!

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60520&d=1440966473
Retard I am not Kurdish:picard2: . Stop spamming this forum with Bullshit." Bla Bla we are not Arabs. We are so pure "white" Mongol Scytho-Sumerians" .

[Arhat]

Lol. Is this lil cocksucker related with dat Kurdish troll fuck Demhat?

I hate to repeat it: This is a "European" forum so what the fuck are descendants of Anatolian gypsies/goats/Semites doing here???

[Proto-Shaman]

I hate to repeat it: This is a "European" forum so what the fuck are descendants of Anatolian gypsies/goats/Semites doing here???
lol every member of ""European"" (whatever this is) aristocracy has actually Cuman blood in their veins xD

[Proto-Shaman]

Lol. Is this lil cocksucker related with dat Kurdish troll fuck Demhat?
I don't know how many Kurdish members are active in this forum, but I am sure they have too many sockpuppets.

[Arhat]

lol every member of ""European"" (whatever this is) aristocracy has actually Cuman blood in their veins xD

Are you retarded?

[Proto-Shaman]

Are you retarded?
Having problem with facts. Not my problem.

[Proto-Shaman]

So who invaded India? Ancient Turks?

[Proto-Shaman]

Here are some examples of the ossetians. Do they look Turkic to you?
https://newgeorgianyouth.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/ossetians-meeting-12.jpg
http://ossetians.com/pictures/Valerik_xhasty%20nuazan.jpg
http://thefamilywithoutborders.com/wp-content/gallery/2010-08-16_georgia-refugees-camp/04_Georgia_Refugee_Camp.jpg
Yes, they do.

[Babak]

Lol very turkic

qpAdm mixture model

Scythian_IA
Potapovka 0.913
Nganasan 0.087
chisq 5.815 tail prob 0.213365



https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/mzaa8LFopOKvKdRD9JoLzHg4k0m0TQ7RwjkHSMCgb24kGL4Wan ufggr7-D30dZATXGjhTXfxpDeFmmY=w1920-h853-rw

[Babak]

Scythians/sarmatians, is an old name for Slavs before Slaven word existed

LOL

[Rgvgjhvv]

Yes, they do.

They don't to me - at all.

[Kaspias]

this thread filled with cancer

[Proto-Shaman]

qpAdm mixture model

Scythian_IA
Potapovka 0.913
Nganasan 0.087
chisq 5.815 tail prob 0.213365



https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/mzaa8LFopOKvKdRD9JoLzHg4k0m0TQ7RwjkHSMCgb24kGL4Wan ufggr7-D30dZATXGjhTXfxpDeFmmY=w1920-h853-rw
Your link has an error. Can you explain a lil bit more plz?

[Babak]

Your link has an error. Can you explain a lil bit more plz?

which link

[Proto-Shaman]

which link

this (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/mzaa8LFopOKvKdRD9JoLzHg4k0m0TQ7RwjkHSMCgb24kGL4Wan ufggr7-D30dZATXGjhTXfxpDeFmmY=w1920-h853-rw)

[Babak]

this

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/mzaa8LFopOKvKdRD9JoLzHg4k0m0TQ7RwjkHSMCgb24kGL4Wan ufggr7-D30dZATXGjhTXfxpDeFmmY=w1920-h853-rw

oh shit idk what happened lol sorry

[Crimson Winds]

Shevchenko (alternative spellings Schevchenko, Ševčenko, Shevcenko, Szewczenko; Ukrainian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language): Шевченко), a family name of Ukrainian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians) origin. It is derived from the Ukrainian word shvets (Ukrainian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language): швець), "cobbler/shoemaker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoemaking)", and the suffix -enko, denoting descent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shevchenko
:thumb001:

When you have an idea, try first to verify if it's not retarded.

It's unlikely to be Ukranian origin, Shevchen means priest in Circassian an ko means son. It's more meaningful than shoemaker.

[Petros Houhoulis]

It's unlikely to be Ukranian origin, Shevchen means priest in Circassian an ko means son. It's more meaningful than shoemaker.

Do you have proof of what you post or you are just keeping up the Turkish tradition of making claims out of your arse?

[Dragoon]

Sarmatians/Scythian were large group like the Huns. The Huns had multiple language skill because of mercs or something.
Maybe Sarmatians and Scythians were Iranic speaking or multiple languages, but due to location and movement were more light skinned.
Is it not possible that after Huns/Mongols/Turks invaded they got some input from Scythians/Slavs/etc, explaining the z93?
Map of Indo Europeans 500bc

https://s33.postimg.cc/rsbcmra8f/Indo-european_-_languages_-_evolution_-_500_BC_-_map.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Crimson Winds]

Do you have proof of what you post or you are just keeping up the Turkish tradition of making claims out of your arse?

Etymology

[Petros Houhoulis]

Etymology

So, you made it out of your arse, you cannot provide a link...

[Proto-Shaman]

Do you have proof of what you post or you are just keeping up the Turkish tradition of making claims out of your arse?
:lol00002:

He is Circassian

[Proto-Shaman]

Sarmatians/Scythian were large group like the Huns. The Huns had multiple language skill because of mercs or something.
Maybe Sarmatians and Scythians were Iranic speaking or multiple languages, but due to location and movement were more light skinned.
Is it not possible that after Huns/Mongols/Turks invaded they got some input from Scythians/Slavs/etc, explaining the z93?
Map of Indo Europeans 500bc

omg (https://postimages.org/)
No, there is no evidence.

[Crimson Winds]

So, you made it out of your arse, you cannot provide a link...

Circassians were present at Southern Ukraine and Volga area before Mongol invaisons and some etymological link seems overlapping. I am not decisive but why wouldn't, since Circassians has huge cultural impact on Ukranian speaking Cossaks.

[Proto-Shaman]

So Real Aryans were turkic people according to this thread.

But whenever i read ancient texts written by my brahmin tribes we all people beside other Rigvedics were described as Mellech(barbarian) or different from rigvedics.

Iranians such as Parsians, Scythiams, Parthians, Pallavas, Kambojas, Paktas , Turuksha(Sanskrit word for turks), Yona/Yavana (ionian and macidonian tribes) etc all were described as foreign to the Aryavarta
If Turuksha is the Sanskrit word for Turks, then Kushan are Turkic or what? because this would be the logical consequence.

[mutabor]

Original Turkic people were a mix of Q, C and N haplogroups.

Ket language ( Q haplogroup) related to Na-Dene Native American group sounds just like Turkic language.

Very strong explosive guttural sound K in these three languages.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCnWPOHc0YY&t

Compare Ket with Kazakh language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k9rVnKnzW0

Inuit language of Canada resembles Turkic language in sound and grammatical structure is similar ( agglutinative).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0lrGBaawsk

[Ryuk]

. Original Turkic people were a mix of Q, C and N haplogroups.

Ket language ( Q haplogroup) related to Na-Dene Native American group sounds just like Turkic language.

Very strong explosive guttural sound K in these three languages.

No,Y DNA C is not a component of proto bulgaro turkics but N and Q are more likely to be so.

It has nothing to do with the na-dene natives and the Kets(and other yeniseic peoples).Na dene natives are a people of neo mongoloid carrying Y DNA C and split from other Eastern Asians 15-10.000 years ago.The natives of Yenisey carry Y DNA Q and they are a paleo Amerind people .They formed 30.000 years ago with the East Asian and ANE mixture.

Ket language has no relation to Turkic languages.The Ket language contains excessive consonants and consonant clustures and contains toned sounds.Turkic languages are poor in terms of consonant and clustures and do not contain any tone.

I've explained this before.


proto Bulgaro turkic language did not contain laryngeal,uvular or harsh sounds,instead it contains dental, palatal,velar and labial consonants.

there are significant differences between Turkic languages and paleo Siberian languages.

1-)Turkic languages have rich vovels,but there is not much in PS languages.

2-)Turkic languages have not as consonants as PS languages.

3-)while Turkish languages are nominativ languages,PS languages are more ergative.

4-)Turkic languages are agglutinativ,PS languages are polysentetic


Turkic consonants: labial(p,b,m) dental(t,d,s,n,l,r),palatal(č,S,s,ñ,N,R,L),velar(k ,g,q,G)

Turkic vovels:a,aa,e,ee,i,ii,ï,ïï,o,oo,ö,öö,u,uu,ü,üü,é,é é,perhaps ä,ää

[mutabor]

No,Y DNA C is not a component of proto bulgaro turkics but N and Q are more likely to be so.


Mongolian and Tungusic languages ( haplogroup C3) have similar grammatical structure as Turkic.

In the same manner Yakut people ( a mix of Tungusic and Turkic peoples) have common haplogroup N with Uralic Finno-Ugric speakers. And grammar of Uralic languages is also similar to Tungusic and Turkic.

There is also a link of haplogroup C origin with Dravidian languages which are also agglutinative in structure. Haplogroup C presumably originated from India because they found its highest variety in India. So I presume that carriers of haplogroup C spoke agglutinative language.

I think that carriers of Haplogroup N spoke a language which nowadays is closer to Samoyedic language. The problem with Yakuts is that possibly they are Turkified Tungusic speakers.

Samoyedic language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0n3kl2cJT4

[Ryuk]

Mongolian and Tungusic languages ( haplogroup C3) have similar grammatical structure as Turkic.

Also uralic,most amerindian languages,dravidian,hurro-urartian,caucasian,aboriginal languages etc. so?

[Mingle]

If Turuksha is the Sanskrit word for Turks, then Kushan are Turkic or what? because this would be the logical consequence.

Kushans were Bactrian (East Iranic).

[mutabor]

Also uralic,most amerindian languages,dravidian,hurro-urartian,caucasian,aboriginal languages etc. so?

Uralic - Tungusic ( common haplogroup N)

Amerindian - Altaic ( common place of origin, haplogroups Q, C)

Dravidian - haplogroup C formed in South India - Aboriginal Australians carry haplogroup C

What sticks out is Hurro-Urartian and Caucasian languages. What I noticed is that Northern Caucasian languages like Chechen have stops/intervals like in Amerindian and some Siberian populations.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Migration_of_the_Y_chromosome_haplogroup_C_in_East _Asia.png/800px-Migration_of_the_Y_chromosome_haplogroup_C_in_East _Asia.png

[Mingle]

Uralic - Tungusic ( common haplogroup N)

Amerindian - Altaic ( common place of origin, haplogroups Q, C)

Dravidian - haplogroup C formed in South India - Aboriginal Australians carry haplogroup C

What sticks out is Hurro-Urartian and Caucasian languages. What I noticed is that Northern Caucasian languages like Chechen have stops/intervals like in Amerindian and some Siberian populations.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Migration_of_the_Y_chromosome_haplogroup_C_in_East _Asia.png/800px-Migration_of_the_Y_chromosome_haplogroup_C_in_East _Asia.png

Where do you think O formed? Its concentration is in the eastern half of Asia, but I've even seen Pashtuns and Jatts with O in some rare cases.

[Proto-Shaman]

Kushans were Bactrian (East Iranic).

I don't think so.

[Proto-Shaman]

Kushans were tochrians of Tarim basin, they were described as Hair skinned and haired like White huns but i forgot the name of the document.
But why were they called Turushka then?

[Proto-Shaman]

Kushans were tocharyans from tarim basin.

Not indo iranian but 3rd branch of aryans.

I heard about these 3rd branch of Aryans. Can you tell us more about them? Where did they originated and which Indo-Aryan dialects are closest to it?

[Mingle]

Kushans were tocharyans from tarim basin.

Not indo iranian but 3rd branch of aryans.

Tocharians are not the same as Tukhara. The people of the Tarim Basin were incorrectly named "Tocharian". But anyways, what makes you say the Tocharians were Aryan? Aryan has always meant Indo-Iranian.

https://borderlessblogger.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/centum_satem_map1.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages

Bactrian (along with Greek) was one of the official languages of the Kushan Empire. It had nothing to do with the "Tocharians" of the Tarim Basin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire

[Proto-Shaman]

@Kipchak are u from famous kipchak tribe ?

Yes, I am :cool:

[Proto-Shaman]

These people were overwhelmingly tall likely above 6.5 amd had red hair and blue/green eyes with nordid features based on their mummies found in their homeland tarim baisin.
This sound interesting. So they must have belonged to haplogroup R1b? Were they Centum or Satem?

[Proto-Shaman]

I dont that much but yes their ydna was R1b and closest to the celts as far as i know.

Here is the documentary of these mummies and Tocharyans
https://youtu.be/tr5Kq56heIs

Ok, here comes the problem, Celtic is an agglutinative language, which is totally alien to Indo-European. And According to the Russian biochemist Anatol Klyosov R1b has also non-Indo-European origins, but Proto-Turkic and Dene-Caucasian instead.

[Proto-Shaman]

Tocharians are not the same as Tukhara. The people of the Tarim Basin were incorrectly named "Tocharian". But anyways, what makes you say the Tocharians were Aryan? Aryan has always meant Indo-Iranian.

https://borderlessblogger.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/centum_satem_map1.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages

Bactrian (along with Greek) was one of the official languages of the Kushan Empire. It had nothing to do with the "Tocharians" of the Tarim Basin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire

Tocharians ≠ Tocharian ABC
read Stupipedia, in your own source. lol

[Mingle]

Tocharians ≠ Tocharian ABC
read Stupipedia, in your own source. lolYes that's what I said. They were wrongly given the name Tocharian. We already had this discussion a year or two ago if you remember.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Leto]

Yes that's what I said. They were wrongly given the name Tocharian. We already had this discussion a year or two ago if you remember.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk
But they were still IE, weren't they? The Tarim basin.

[Mingle]

But they were still IE, weren't they? The Tarim basin.

Yes they were. I didn't pay attention to what he meant by "ABC". My point is that the Tocharians mentioned in history (Tukharas) are the original Tocharians and they were ethnic Bactrian. The people from the Tarim Basin are not Tocharians at all though but just wrongly given that name. But they were also IEs.

[Proto-Shaman]

Yes they were. I didn't pay attention to what he meant by "ABC". My point is that the Tocharians mentioned in history (Tukharas) are the original Tocharians and they were ethnic Bactrian. The people from the Tarim Basin are not Tocharians at all though but just wrongly given that name. But they were also IEs.
There is zero connections between the medieval Indo-European dialects of Tarim basin (Toch. A, Toch. B, Toch. C) and the Proto-Turkic Z93 mummies of the Tarim basin, neither to the historically recorded Oghuz Tokhars of Mahmut al-Kashgari.

[Yaglakar]

Proto-Turkic expansion:

https://imageshack.com/a/img923/2233/UmNGpw.png
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/6818/RryXx0.png

and if one goes back far enough, proto-Mongols and proto-Turks come from the same root.

[Proto-Shaman]

i dont know about that.

here, this introduction thread about Alochen Huns of India as i said yesterday.

here, this might interest you.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?265983-Hindu-Alchon-Huns-of-India-and-their-impact-on-Buddhismin-north-West-India
I knew of them. The rulers of these Alchon Huns looked very much like modern Oghuz and Karluk speakers, in particular Uyghurs, Turkmens, Uzbeks, Azerbaijanis and Anatolian Turks. Did they have any genetic impact in South Asia at all?

[Ryuk]

Real Proto turkic expansion maps

https://archive.is/Kt533/8111dc8eff1c78293c2121c0dd0c8bb2c391fcef.jpg

https://archive.is/Kt533/d8ef4ea0b201d644c9b4484278bcd4d88559ae1a.jpg

https://archive.is/Kt533/64f85e2f29cb0dc78803b2b195884ebbfc678de9.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

Real Proto-Turks

https://i.imgur.com/aXYGgwC.png
(all good things come threes)

[Proto-Shaman]

Proto-Turkic expansion:

https://imageshack.com/a/img923/2233/UmNGpw.png
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/6818/RryXx0.png

and if one goes back far enough, proto-Mongols and proto-Turks come from the same root.

These maps reflect the original Scythian ethnogenesis. But Afanasievo and Okunevo are some 500 years older than originally thought.

[Chelubey]

Ryuk is banned?
OK.
For those who are interested in Turkic paleogenetics - the studies of the Kazakh genetics.
https://elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=27277833
This is a study for a narrow circle of persons .To get the full version of the article, complicated registration is required.
It has very valuable information.
Preview :


This article describes the study of ethnogenesis of the Turkic peoples according to the methods of population genetics. The author identifies three approaches to research: 1. The study of autosomal markers; 2. A study of polymorphism of Y-chromosome among modern populations; 3. Investigation of polymorphism of Y-chromosome among ancient populations. The article describes the results of genetic studies of such ancient peoples as the Hunnu, Donghu, Scythians, the population of Zhou realm (China), representatives of the Yamnaya, Andronovo, Karasuk, Taghar and other archaeological cultures. Interesting data on the pit culture coincides with the modern populations of the Burzyan and Naiman-Baganaly. Data on the Scythians, the Andronovo culture matches with modern tribes of the Kipchaks, Tabyn, Elan, and part of the Karachais. Data on the Karasuk culture matches with some of the Polish-Lithuanian Tatar families and modern Kyrgyz tribes of On and Sol Kanat (left and right wings). This article presents data on the testing of autosomal markers, namely the timing of the beginning of the genetic admixture of different populations, which marked the beginning of the population under study. The author presents the dates of “genetic admixture” of such peoples as the Turks, Balkars, Chuvashes, Iranian Azerbaijanis, Tatars, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Uighurs, Uzbeks, Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Kumyks, Nogais. He offers the examples of how the ethno-genetic studies are used in scientific purposes, more precisely in the process of nation building while writing the “national histories” of various nations. The author describes the situation of use of genetic data in the national construction of the Jews, Bashkirs, Hungarians, Russians. The article describes the major haplogroups occurring among various Turkic families: 1. Bashkir tribes: Kipchaks, Tabyn, Gaina, Kangls, Burzyan; 2. Kazakh tribes: Qara Kipchaks, Bultyn-Kipchaks, Argyn, Konyrat (Kungirats), Alshyn, Uysun, Naimans, Tabyn, Kerei, Shanyshkyly (Katagan); 3. Kyrgyz tribes relating to subdivisions of the On Kanat, Sol kanat, Ichkilik.

[Chelubey]

To Yaglakar.
Here written:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D 0%B7_%D1%83%D0%B9%D0%B3%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2


Mogul layer:
The last major ethnic component that became part of the present-day Uyghur ethnos were the Moguls (Turkic speaking Mongols), who came by several waves at the 13th century, consisting of such tribes as Barlas, Douglat, Nyugate, Arlat, Churas, Bayrin and others. [1] The last large wave of Moguls came with Chagataid Said Khan at the beginning of the 16th century. The Moguls originally speaking Mongolian languages ​​were gradually assimilated by local Turks, switched to the local Turkic language called Chagatai, adopted Islam (XIV century. Tugluk Timur-khan), began to settle.

I heard that the Uygurs have a legend that they have semi-Turkic, semi-Mongolian origin.
How really big is the Mongolic component of ethnogenesis of present-day Uigurs? Or it is an exaggeration?

[Yaglakar]

To Yaglakar.
Here written:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D 0%B7_%D1%83%D0%B9%D0%B3%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2

I heard that the Uygurs have a legend that they have semi-Turkic, semi-Mongolian origin.
How really big is the Mongolic component of ethnogenesis of present-day Uigurs? Or it is an exaggeration?

According to contemporary Haidar Dughlat, there were 30,000 Moghuls left in 1500s. He says that most blended with the Muslim population. And taking into account that the whole population of Uighurs and Kashgarians was likely low, a few hundred thousand perhaps, the genetic impact was likely large. Moghuls are not considered Mongols per say in Uighur folk memory, even though they are at least initially. The fact that they converted to Islam en mass and gradually switched to Türki was enough to perceive them as their own. Even though at the time large portions of the country were still non-Muslim. All other Mongols were usually referred to as Qalmaqs irrespective of whether they were Oirats or Kalkha Mongols.

[Fiko0]

Apart from DNA arguments it is quite difficult to say who is the ancestor of the Turks and the Persians. Many sources show that the Scythians spoke Persian, but their habitat was spread over large areas, including West Asia but also Central Asia. Nobody knows what language they spoke in northern Scythia, for example.

I think we can get a lot out of their war style. In particular the horseback archery culture.

Xiongu appeared on stage around 300 years later. Their way of warfare was identical. In particular their horse archers..

The Europeans were amazed by the Huns when they rushed in with horses. The Europeans didn't stand a chance against the fast mounted archers..

This was a typical style of Turkic warfare. Horseback archers were used as symbols on various flags and coins of Turks.

I'm not sure if we can get a relationship out of this. Also ancient Persians used the mounted archery culture but not much as the Turks did.

Scythian:
https://i.imgur.com/Q8PmgxW.jpg?1

Phartian:
https://i.imgur.com/quYA0M0.jpg?1


Unfortunately I couldn't find any artifacts from Xiongnu with horseback archery on it but in many Chinese historical sources we can conclude that the same warfare culture also prevailed among the Xiongnu people.

[Rico33]

But why is R haplogroup so frequent amongst asiatic looking amerindians?

[Proto-Shaman]

But why is R haplogroup so frequent amongst asiatic looking amerindians?
Indo-Europeans migrated in 80.000 bc into americas then build time machine to rob future R-men's genomes, then backmigrated into Europea, and finally killed and raped I1/I2 men. Anyway, thread reached 130,895 (Z93 Turan reconquered pole position).

[Balthier]

Haplogroup R1 is 100% corelated with European ancestry, it has nothing to do with Turkic peoples, it was mixed into the pot with IRANIAN speaking Scythians.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/09/y-haplogroup-r1a-and-mental-health.html

Haplogroup C has nothing to do with Turkic peoples either, it's a Mongolic marker, the reason it's found in Kazakhs... is well... Kazakhs are a Turco-Mongol tribe.

Haplogroups Q, N and maybe J2a (which is definetely a CHG marker) were found in Proto-Turks, whom were of 95%+ EAST EURASIAN ancestry,

Eğer bundan başka bir iddianız varsa, kesinlikle yanılıyorsunuz ve Türk eğitim sistemi sizin beyninizi yıkamış. Başka bir açıklaması bilimsel olarak KESİNLİKLE YOK.

[Annihilus]

Haplogroup R1 is 100% corelated with European ancestry, it has nothing to do with Turkic peoples.

Dude R1 is between 12,500 and 25,700 years old (most likely 18,500 years). It is way older than turkics, you can only only talk about certain subclades of r1a (and also r1b) and turkics.

To say that R1 is 100% European is the most retarded thing I ever heard on this forum.

[Balthier]

Dude R1 is between 12,500 and 25,700 years old (most likely 18,500 years). It is way older than turkics, you can only only talk about certain subclades of r1a (and also r1b) and turkics.

To say that R1 is 100% European is the most retarded thing I ever heard on this forum.

Other than r1b-v88, there are no exceptions on the present time.

[Annihilus]

Other than r1b-v88, there are no exceptions on the present time.

F1019 (below 2935) is turning out to be quite turkic.

[Balthier]

F1019 (below 2935) is turning out to be quite turkic.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-F1345/ i don't see any Turkish flags here.

i suggest you read this article, http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/09/y-haplogroup-r1a-and-mental-health.html

"The oldest example of R1a in ancient DNA from Central Asia is dated to 2132-1940 calBCE (ID I3770, Narasimhan 2019). Moreover, this sequence is closely related to much older R1a samples from Central, Eastern and Northern Europe, and phylogenetically nested within their diversity. Thus, it must surely represent a population expansion from Europe to Central Asia. Indeed, it's also associated with the Bronze Age Andronovo archeological culture, which is usually seen as an offshoot of the Corded Ware culture (CWC) of Late Neolithic Europe. The vast majority of present-day R1a lineages in Central Asia are closely related to that of I3770, and so must also ultimately derive from Europe."

[Leto]

Obviously R1a was spread by ancient whites (Indo-Aryans and their descendants) :cool: It's 2019 and I don't know why some people still shit bricks when they are told this.

[Annihilus]

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-F1345/ i don't see any Turkish flags here.

I said turkic not Turkish. F1019 was first discovered in a Kazakh and a Uyghur. The two Russian F1019's are Balkars (ignore their additional mutation that's only 225 years old) the other one is me. A Khazar R1a turned out to be F1019. We are slowely getting there.


https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-F1345/
i suggest you read this article, http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/09/y-haplogroup-r1a-and-mental-health.html

"The oldest example of R1a in ancient DNA from Central Asia is dated to 2132-1940 calBCE (ID I3770, Narasimhan 2019). Moreover, this sequence is closely related to much older R1a samples from Central, Eastern and Northern Europe, and phylogenetically nested within their diversity. Thus, it must surely represent a population expansion from Europe to Central Asia. Indeed, it's also associated with the Bronze Age Andronovo archeological culture, which is usually seen as an offshoot of the Corded Ware culture (CWC) of Late Neolithic Europe. The vast majority of present-day R1a lineages in Central Asia are closely related to that of I3770, and so must also ultimately derive from Europe."

Polako is a good guy but he has a clear agenda, besides I am not interested in Indian R1a and slavs.

[xripkan]

R1a comes indeed from ancient white people with European characteristics, it is of Indo-European origin but what we should have in mind is that Indo-europeans are not only the ancestors of modern European peoples. Some of them went to Asia mixed with East Eurasian groups and during Middle-Ages took part in ethnogenesis of Turkic peoples. We know from history that Khazars, Cuman, Pethcenegs were Turkic tribes but their appearance varried a lot among these people. The historical sources mentions that some Khazars had European appearance (despite they were Turkic) while others Mongolian or in some cases even middle-Eastern. This is why we find East Asian haplogroups (Q for example) and Indo-European (R-Z93) among them.

[Annihilus]

Obviously R1a was spread by ancient whites (Indo-Aryans and their descendants) :cool: It's 2019 and I don't know why some people still shit bricks when they are told this.

You really can't talk about whites and R1a in that manner. R1a is much older than the white skin mutations that arose some 8000 years ago.

[Leto]

You really can't talk about whites and R1a in that manner. R1a is much older than the white skin mutations that arose some 8000 years ago.
R1a was spread across Eurasia (particularly Central and South Asia) much later than that supposed date. In the Bronze Age supposedly.
Turkic-speaking people didn't exist in Central Asia up until 500 AD or so. It was Indo-European back then.

[Leto]

deleted

[Leto]

deleted

[Balthier]

I said turkic not Turkish. F1019 was first discovered in a Kazakh and a Uyghur. The two Russian F1019's are Balkars (ignore their additional mutation that's only 225 years old) the other one is me. A Khazar R1a turned out to be F1019. We are slowely getting there.



Polako is a good guy but he has a clear agenda, besides I am not interested in Indian R1a and slavs.

Dude, all R1a in Eastern & Central Asia are of indo-iranian/tocharian descent. There almost are no R1a in Altay Turks and Yakut Turks for that reason. Also, are you from Samsun?

Edit: it appears i was wrong about Altai People, they a lot of R1a, i confused them with the Tuvans.

[Proto-Shaman]

J2a (which is definetely a CHG marker) were found in Proto-Turks, whom were of 95%+ EAST EURASIAN ancestry
J2a? East Asia? seriously?

[Proto-Shaman]

Obviously R1a was spread by ancient whites (Türks and their descendants) :cool: It's 2019 and I don't know why some people still shit bricks when they are told this.
So, why do you shit bricks then? :cool:

[Balthier]

J2a? East Asia? seriously?

Yeah, i'm surprised you don't know that. It's pretty much famous lol.

[Proto-Shaman]

R1a was spread across Eurasia (particularly Central and South Asia) much later than that supposed date. In the Bronze Age supposedly.
Turkic-speaking people didn't exist in Central Asia up until 500 AD or so. It was Indo-European back then.
seriously :1127: are you mentally ill or just retarded?

https://i.imgur.com/OLlkXva.jpg

Looks like EHG and WSHG were both Türkic Mongoloid Steppe Overlords :rolleyes:

[Petros Houhoulis]

seriously :1127: are you mentally ill or just retarded?

https://i.imgur.com/OLlkXva.jpg

Looks like EHG and WSHG were both Türkic Mongoloid Steppe Overlords :rolleyes:

Shut up, NAZI canine. We all know where your canine stupidity hails from: Turkey!!!

[Chelubey]

91929
91930
saka=huns=medieval turkic people.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325047876_137_ancient_human_genomes_from_across_th e_Eurasian_steppes

[Proto-Shaman]

Shut up, NAZI canine. We all know where your canine stupidity hails from: Turkey!!!
Shut up, u SUBHUMAN canine?

(I changed my signature for u tbh)

[Chelubey]

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/L/Roman/Texts/Curtius/7*.html
Latin text:


At rex Scytharum, cuius tum ultra Tanaim imperium erat, ratus eam urbem, quam in ripa amnis Macedones condiderant, suis inpositam esse cervicibus, fratrem, Carthasim nomine, cum magna equitum manu misit ad diruendam eam proculque amne submovendas Macedonum copias.


google translator:


But the king of the Scythians, who was then extended beyond the Tanais, thinking her the most the city, rather than in the bank of the river the Macedonians had founded, his was imposed to be his neck, and a brother, Carthasis by the name of , with a large force of cavalry to demolish it and drive off the necessary to remove the Macedonian forces.



Turkish "kardesh", tatar "kardash", bashkir "karthash" - brother

[Proto-Shaman]

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/L/Roman/Texts/Curtius/7*.html
Latin text:

google translator:

Turkish "kardesh", tatar "kardash", bashkir "karthash" - brother

Celtic and Turkic people are brothers https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/càirdeach

[Pater Patota]

J2a? East Asia? seriously?

It's nothing about East Asian.J2 is autochthonous to Iranian plateau, those Iranic people possibly went east Asia/Central Asia to mixed with other tribes.That's why we find J2 in some Altaic tribes in Central Asia&North Asia.

[Proto-Shaman]

It's nothing about East Asian.J2 is autochthonous to Iranian plateau, those Iranic people possibly went east Asia/Central Asia to mixed with other tribes.That's why we find J2 in some Altaic tribes in Central Asia&North Asia.
Lol, J2 is low in Iranics.

[Chelubey]

Official academic version(Kullanda):


Scythian καραρύες [kararu]- " wagon, house on wheels‘" (from Hesychius of Alexandria) from Iranian * kərəšaru -Tocharian A kursär,B kwársär "wagon/harness"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychius_of_Alexandria
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B0,_ %D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%92%D1%81% D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0 %B8%D1%87.

The sound metamorphosis kararu< * kərəšaru is not explained.
I looked at the original:

https://books.google.ru/books?id=A7s-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA257&lpg=PA257&dq=%CE%9A%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%B1%CF%81%CF%8D%CE%B5%CF%8 2+%CE%BF%CE%B9+%CE%A3%CE%BA%CF%85%CE%B8%CE%B9%CE%B A%CE%BF%CE%AF+%CE%BF%CE%AF%CE%BA%CE%BF%CE%B9+%CE%A D%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%B9&source=bl&ots=N4KBGe847D&sig=ACfU3U2I4vtn-QWTfxYhs0LuB2wO2SorZw&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiCmr7s-_rlAhUki8MKHQyLCGAQ6AEwDnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=%CE%9A%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%B1%CF%81%CF%8D%CE%B5%CF%82 %20%CE%BF%CE%B9%20%CE%A3%CE%BA%CF%85%CE%B8%CE%B9%C E%BA%CE%BF%CE%AF%20%CE%BF%CE%AF%CE%BA%CE%BF%CE%B9% 20%CE%AD%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%B9&f=false


Καραρύες οι Σκυθικοί οίκοι ένιοι - "kararu is Scythian houses", not wagon.
Turkic etymology:
Karakalpak "kara-ui" - yurt.
https://www.facebook.com/1494437444203105/posts/2028597830787061/

https://adecatours.com/hotels/gostinitsy-nukusa/jipek-joli


The other name of yurta is "Kara ui", meaning a black house.


Literal meaning "big house"- kara+ui: "kara" in the Turkic languages ​​has a polysemantical meaning "big, black" and so on.

Hesychius just added the prosthesis "R" due to the cluster of vowels (aiui)

[Illyrius]

Sir are you perhaps a loyal servant of +TanRi+ Spirit of the Steppe and his retarded armies of Turkicism?

That youtuber has been spreading fake shit for ages now.
Don't get delusional. R1b and R1a are our own haplogroups
You should be taking pride in haplogroup C Q1b and some other Turkic markers.

[Batu]

There are still people on this forum who think there is such a thing as Altaic languages. I can't believe.