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Loki
01-07-2015, 08:38 PM
Why hasn't Japan banned child-porn comics? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30698640)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80097000/jpg/_80097706_cartoon_characters624.jpg

Japan's comics and cartoons - known as manga and anime - are a huge cultural industry and famous around the world. But some are shocking, featuring children in sexually explicit scenarios. Why has Japan decided against banning this material?

It's a Sunday afternoon in Tokyo and Sunshine Creation is in full swing. Thousands of manga fans, mostly men, crowd into an exhibition centre, poring over manga comic magazines laid out for sale on trestle tables snaking around the rooms.

Posters of elfin-faced, doe-eyed cartoon heroines, many of them scantily clad and impossibly proportioned, turn the cavernous space into a riot of colour.

"This area is mainly dealing with sexual creations," explains Hide, one of the event organisers.

We stop at one table where the covers on display feature two topless girls. To my eyes they look to be in their early or pre-teens, and the stories show them engaged in explicit sexual acts.

Several other stands are selling similar material. It would certainly be considered controversial, and possibly illegal, in the UK, Australia or Canada, but here it's no big deal.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80097000/jpg/_80097177_sunshine_creation624b.jpg

"Everyone knows that child abuse is not a good thing," Hide says. "But having that kind of emotion is free, enjoying imagining some sexual situation with a child is not prohibited."

His candour takes me by surprise. He then introduces me to the word "Lolicon", short for "Lolita complex" - the name for manga featuring young girls engaged in sexually explicit scenarios. It can involve incest, rape and other taboos, though Hide's tastes lie more with high-school romance.

"I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says.

I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby".

"She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other."

Material like this is a tiny part of Japan's huge manga industry, which generates around US $3.6bn in sales annually. But it attracts a lot of attention and controversy.

In June 2014, Japan's parliament voted to ban the possession of real images of child sexual abuse. Production and distribution of these images had been illegal since 1999, but Japan was the last country in the OECD to outlaw possession.

At the time there were calls to also outlaw "virtual" sexual images - in manga, anime and games - of characters who appear to be under 18. But after much debate, Japan's parliament decided against this. The decision drew condemnation from child protection campaigners and NGOs, particularly outside Japan.

One clue to understanding it is in the fact that Hide was happily discussing his "hobby" with me only minutes after we first met. Although manga involving very young children does appear to have some social stigma attached to it, sexual material involving adolescents is a fairly mainstream interest.

Japan's legislators were apparently reluctant to put large numbers of manga fans - potentially millions - on the wrong side of the law.

Fans like Hide argue they are just enjoying harmless fantasy. No child models or actors are involved, he says, so "there is no child abuse for creating sexual topic mangas".

But is the boundary between fantasy and reality always clear?

Tokyo's Akihabara district is the spiritual home of the manga world, a place where neon signs and loud pop music overwhelm the eyes and ears. Multi-storey bookshops line the streets, selling manga on every topic under the sun.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80097000/jpg/_80097173_akihabara-game-store624.jpg

In their adult sections, restricted to people over 18, it's not hard to find manga with titles like Junior Rape or Japanese Pre-teen Suite.

"People get sexually excited by something, then become used to it," says Tomo, who works behind the counter in one of the adult stores. "So they are always looking for something new, and get sexually excited by young, immature women."

This is what worries critics - the concern that even if no-one is harmed in the creation of sexually explicit manga, it might normalise, facilitate, or lead to an increased risk of sexual abuse.

No-one knows whether this is the case - research has been inconclusive. But many in Japan, particularly women, have a wider concern too. They see these images as part of a society that turns a blind eye to extreme pornography - often degrading to women - and the sexualisation of young people.

You don't have to look far in Japan to find a fascination with youth. Pop groups of young girls perform for crowds of adult men. And from billboards and advertisements to manga, schoolgirl imagery is everywhere.

LiLy, a popular writer of books for young women - Sex in the City, Tokyo-style, she says - told me about her school days when men would approach her and her friends and offer money for their socks or panties.

"I think that is disgusting, it's very kinky," she says. The fascination with adolescent sexuality is "all about the power that men want to achieve, men who are tired of strong independent women," she argues.

The family model of LiLy's parents' era still holds strong sway in Japan - a father who earns the money and a mother who stays at home as a housewife. But the weakness of Japan's economy has made this difficult for men to realise.

"There are people business-wise who are not successful, maybe they are running into fantasy with Lolicon manga.

"I hate it, I seriously hate it. I want Japan to kick out the kinky, just leave children out of that kinkiness, even your fantasy."

But others are sceptical about how far the government should step in to prescribe and enforce a particular vision of what's "good" or "proper", especially regarding people's fantasies.

"There's every reason to be critical, that's fine," says manga translator and free-speech advocate Dan Kanemitsu. "But when you give people the authority to police others based on what they might do or what they think, that's thought-policing."

So would he stand up for the right of creators to draw manga featuring young children and taboos like rape and incest?

"I'm not comfortable with it, but it is not my right to tell people how they think or what they want to share," he says. "As long as it doesn't infringe upon people's human rights, what's wrong with having a fantasy

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
Japan and images of child sexual abuse


Japan outlawed the production and distribution of images of sexual abuse of children in 1999 - 21 years after the UK
In 2013, the US State Department described Japan as an "international hub for the production and trafficking of child pornography"
Japan's police agency reported 1,644 offences in 2013 - more than in any year since the 1999 law came into force
In June 2014, Japan banned possession of real images of child sexual abuse - people were given one year to comply



__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _

Among the manga shops of Akihabara, child protection campaigner Kazuna Kanajiri takes me to see something she thinks is a much bigger problem than cartoons and comics. We climb a flight of stairs off the main street and emerge into a room packed full of DVDs.

Kazuna picks one off the shelf - it features real images of a girl she says is five years old, wearing a skimpy swimsuit and posing in sexually suggestive positions that mimic adult pornography. All the other DVDs in the shop also feature real children.

"I feel sorry for the children," Kanajiri tells me.

These so-called "Junior Idol" DVDs became popular after the production of child pornography was outlawed in 1999. They dodged the law as long as the children's genitals were covered, but Kanajiri argues they're now illegal after the law was strengthened last June.

"People who exploit should be punished properly," she says. "It's completely illegal under the law, but the police haven't cracked down."

While some of the content in manga and anime featuring minors in sexual situations might be shocking and attention-grabbing, Kanajiri and other campaigners I spoke to told me that for now, they are focused on more important battles to protect real children.

But she tells me she hasn't given up hope of a ban on contentious manga and anime.

"I want to make it disappear," she says. "By 2020, when the Summer Olympics will take place in Japan, we have to turn Japan into a country which people don't call a perverted culture."

It's a description which supporters of manga strongly reject. But as the Olympics approach, outside eyes will turn to Japan, exerting a powerful pressure for manga and anime to be part of what people see as "cool Japan" rather than "weird Japan".

Aodhan
01-07-2015, 08:50 PM
Because japaneses are strange people.

Fear Fiain
01-07-2015, 09:01 PM
Because japaneses are strange people.

eh, here's the thing, Hugh, parts of scandinavia only recently criminalized sex with Animals under huge international pressure...
Danish porn used to feature girls as young as 14 in mainstream films back in the 70s.
I'm kinda against the American Empire Spreading it's Junior Anti-sex league notions around the world.

If it's legal to fuck a 14 year old in Mexico, Denmark, or Bulgaria, then why should it suddenly be illegal to film the same?
And if American teenagers are routinely knocked up at those ages, do we really have the right to claim moral high ground when other nations have reality-based policies?


Finally, Brazilians shouldn't object too strongly to lolicon, til you first deal with your 13 year old hooker problem.

SKYNET
01-07-2015, 09:03 PM
I have the same question lol

Dandelion
01-07-2015, 09:15 PM
Well, better that than exploitation of children. Actually, videos of children in suggestive clothing have been banned only recently in that country. Their take on sexuality is a bit more naive than ours. The legal age of consent in Japan is also very low (12 or 13 I believe).
All in all, it's not a paedophile's heaven and molesters get arrested also over there.

Gustave H
01-07-2015, 09:16 PM
Because - the Japs are sickos.

Dandelion
01-07-2015, 09:18 PM
Because - the Japs are sickos.

They were your allies. Of course, now that they don't have someone like Tojo things have probably changed in your eyes.

Gustave H
01-07-2015, 09:20 PM
They were your allies. Of course, now that they don't have someone like Tojo things have probably changed in your eyes.

Get out of my head.

Dombra
01-07-2015, 09:30 PM
What is the most weird: Japans obsession with young girls or us letting hundreds of thousands of third worlders move into our countries?

Óttar
01-07-2015, 09:38 PM
Maybe we don't have the right to impose our sexual morality on other people? :icon_ask:

Some may object to there being a Japanese art exhibit with live beautiful women's butts hanging out of holes in the wall, with the picture of each beautiful woman above their respective hole in the wall, where businessman patrons can then go and sniff their butts. I, on the other hand, am glad that there exists a country with such a lax attitude towards sexuality, much of which, to our eyes, would seem non-normative. Bully on the Japanese. :thumb001:

robar
01-07-2015, 11:35 PM
Because they are a sovereign counry:confused:

Aodhan
01-08-2015, 04:18 AM
eh, here's the thing, Hugh, parts of scandinavia only recently criminalized sex with Animals under huge international pressure...
Danish porn used to feature girls as young as 14 in mainstream films back in the 70s.
I'm kinda against the American Empire Spreading it's Junior Anti-sex league notions around the world.

If it's legal to fuck a 14 year old in Mexico, Denmark, or Bulgaria, then why should it suddenly be illegal to film the same?
And if American teenagers are routinely knocked up at those ages, do we really have the right to claim moral high ground when other nations have reality-based policies?


Finally, Brazilians shouldn't object too strongly to lolicon, til you first deal with your 13 year old hooker problem.

Real children having sex is different than children's drawings having sex.

just
01-08-2015, 04:28 AM
Because - the Japs are sickos.

Japan is the worst alley to US in my eyes.
Once an enemy, now's alley.. who believes

de Burgh II
01-08-2015, 04:29 AM
Thats Japan for you. Eccentric wingnuts sometimes.

Chrissi
01-08-2015, 04:48 AM
Anime looks like (mostly white) children to me. Modern japan basically has a pedophile culture. It's not just the appearance but also the attitude and mannerism both for women and men. Everything that looks cute and innocent is sexualized and idiolized. Even the word cute=kawaii is an essential part of their language. They think huge bug eyes are the epitome of beauty and the drawings are perfect females to them just read some of their posts. But it's not just japanese or asians in general this disorder and others are universal also notorious with socially awkward white guys. It's just more of a cultural thing for japan. There are so many insanities it's all the same bronies, furries, doll fetishists etc all autism mixed with a paraphilia.

Manifest Destiny
01-08-2015, 05:47 AM
Because japaneses are strange people.

This.

Manifest Destiny
01-08-2015, 05:50 AM
What is the most weird: Japans obsession with young girls or us letting hundreds of thousands of third worlders move into our countries?

Neither is healthy.

Lusos
01-08-2015, 05:51 AM
Immorality=Marketing=Money.

And It seems It Is something culturally Japanese.

Gustave H
01-08-2015, 05:52 AM
Aren't you supposed to be gone?

Anyway, yes Japan is weird.



Slightly more likely than Klaus sticking to what he says.

I'm like Loki, but Slavo-Germanic and utterly utterly insane.

Gustave H
01-08-2015, 05:53 AM
Japan is the worst alley to US in my eyes.
Once an enemy, now's alley.. who believes

Learn to spell.

just
01-08-2015, 06:00 AM
Learn to spell.

Okay, thanks. I think I have a more problem in grammar than spelling.

Gustave H
01-08-2015, 06:01 AM
Okay, thanks. I think I have a more problem in grammar than spelling.

I disagree. I'd be glad to help - I charge by the hour for Skype lessons. :coffee:

Loki
01-08-2015, 06:01 AM
Learn to spell.

English is not her first language. I'm sure it's better than your Russian :coffee:

Gustave H
01-08-2015, 06:03 AM
English is not her first language. I'm sure it's better than your Russian :coffee:

My Russian is incredibly fluent - so fluent even I impress myself with it.

Loki
01-08-2015, 06:08 AM
My Russian is incredibly fluent - so fluent even I impress myself with it.

I stand corrected then :) But give some slack to those who are not as efficient in acquiring a second language :)

Gustave H
01-08-2015, 06:12 AM
I stand corrected then :) But give some slack to those who are not as efficient in acquiring a second language :)

Oh, I was only kidding, old sport.

Carignan
01-08-2015, 06:30 AM
How did they go from Samurais and the bushido code to the weird porn stuff they are into nowadays?

Loki
01-08-2015, 06:47 AM
How did they go from Samurais and the bushido code to the weird porn stuff they are into nowadays?

They have been emasculated by the American victory and nuclear bombs. But ruthless Japan will be back on the world stage in the future. I have no doubt. But this time they will be no match for China.

Antimage
01-08-2015, 07:09 AM
What is the most weird: Japans obsession with young girls or us letting hundreds of thousands of third worlders move into our countries?

i don't know which is more weird, but the mass immigration to western europe is definitely much worse. it's complete nonsense

SKYNET
01-08-2015, 12:40 PM
Today's Japan is a strong ally of the US

finŝaų
01-08-2015, 01:22 PM
Why should it? They're just cartoons.

Dandelion
01-08-2015, 01:33 PM
I don't think Japan is a 'paedophile culture' because such comics exist lol. That country is more boring and average than one might expect, and also very low-tech unlike what you might expect.

In Japan even fax machines are still widely used because they have a relatively old population (>25% is over the age of 60).

Still a good country despite its economic decline, even though it will remain a fairly wealthy country for many generation to come. I don't have much bad to say about their country, despite the obvious flaws any country has.