Does Hitler's Y-DNA Haplogroup Imply Jewish Ancestry?

[Anglojew]

Adolf Hitler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler) 20 April 1889 – 30 April 1945 was an Austrian-born German politician and the leader of the Nazi Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP); National Socialist German Workers Party). He was chancellor of Germany from 1933 to 1945 and dictator of Nazi Germany (as Führer und Reichskanzler) from 1934 to 1945. Hitler was at the centre of Nazi Germany, World War II in Europe, and the Holocaust.

Throughout the war until today there were always rumours that Hitler was of part-Jewish ancestry and there is speculation he himself believed his this to be true. What is certain is that Hitler's father, Alois Hitler, Sr. (1837–1903), was illegitimate.


In 1933, the London Daily Mirror (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/hitlerjew.html)published a picture of a gravestone in a Jewish cemetery in Bucharest inscribed with some Hebrew characters and the name Adolf Hitler but it is now known tha this Bucharest Hitler could not have been the Nazi leaders grandfather. At the time, though, this picture sufficiently worried Hitler that he had the Nazi law defining Jewishness written to exclude Jesus Christ and himself.


Nazi official Hans Frank suggested that Alois's mother had been employed as a housekeeper for a Jewish family in Graz and that the family's 19-year-old son, Leopold Frankenberger, had fathered Alois.

This claim is often dismissed due to lack of evidence. However in 2010 it was reported (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305414/Hitler-descended-Jews-Africans-DNA-tests-reveal.html#ixzz3OOPDbDqH)that;


Journalist Jean-Paul Mulders and historian Marc Vermeeren used DNA to track down 39 of the Fuhrer's relatives earlier this year.

They included an Austrian farmer revealed only as a cousin called Norbert H.

A Belgian news magazine has reported that samples of saliva taken from these people strongly suggest Hitler had antecedents he certainly would not have cared for....DNA was also taken from American Alexander Stuart-Houston (pictured below), a grand-nephew of Hitler.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/08/23/article-1305414-00127B6E00000258-473_235x255.jpg


'It is most commonly found in the Berbers of Morocco, in Algeria, Libya and Tunisia as well as among Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews,' Mr Vermeeren said.

'One can from this postulate that Hitler was related to people whom he despised,' adds Mr Mulders in the magazine, Knack.

Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18 to 20 per cent of Ashkenazi and 8.6 per cent to 30 per cent of Sephardic Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population. The haplogroup isn't just Jewish though, it is associated (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml)with Neolithic farmers (EEF):


Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages.

The highest genetic diversity of haplogroup E1b1b is observed in Northeast Africa, especially in Ethiopia and Somalia, which also have the monopoly of older and rarer branches like M281, V6 or V92. Ethiopians and Somalians belong mostly to the V22 and V32 (downstream of V12) subclades, but possess also a minority of M81, M123 and V42 subclades. Among the main subclades of E1b1b only V13 and V65 are absent from the Horn of Africa, and probably originated in northern Africa (V65) or the southern Levant (V13).

Haplogroup E1b1b may well have been associated with the earliest development of Neolithic lifestyle and the advent of agriculture, which is so far believed to have arisen in the Fertile Crescent, but could have developed earlier in parts of Northeast Africa now covered by the Sahara desert. Agriculture spread from the Near East to Europe.


Despite the sensationalist headlines more level-headed researchers dispute (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/hitlers-jewish-genes/) the automatic association of the haplogroup and Jews;


Dienekes notes that this is not a rare haplogroup. It is correct that if one is an Ashkenazi Jew the odds of one carrying this haplogroup are much higher. But, it is not necessarily entailed from this that one is likely to be an Ashkenazi Jew if one carries this haplogroup (or is of Ashkenazi Jewish descent).

The short answer to the question of whether Hitler's YDNA haplgroup implies Jewish ancestry is, No;


Based on Family Tree DNA records (http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_famous_people#Adolf_Hitler), no less than 9% of the populations of Germany and Austria belong to the haplogroup E1b1b, and among those, the vast majority - about 80% -are not associated with Jewish ancestry. "This data clearly show that just because one person belongs to the branch of the Y-chromosome referred to as haplogroup E1b1b, that does not mean the person is likely to be of Jewish ancestry," said Professor Hammer.Mulders confirmed the misinterpretation of his account with the following statement to Family Tree DNA: "I never wrote that Hitler was a Jew, or that he had a Jewish grandfather. I only wrote that Hitler's haplogroup is E1b1b, being more common among Berbers, Somalian people and Jews than among overall Germans. This, in order to convey that he was not exactly what during the Third Reich would have been called 'Aryan.'

It doesn't entirely rule out Jewish ancestory though. An interesting aside is that the famous theoretical physicist, Albert Einstein, who himself had to flee Germany due to Hitler and the Nazis belongs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_notable_people#Albert_Einst ein) to a related Y-DNA haplogroup subclade E1b1b1b2.

[Alchemysta]

Hitler was the seed of the devil he does not deserve to be compared to the Jews.

[Voskos]

This article claims that his mtDNA haplogroup might have been Jewish:

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/new-dna-evidence-shows-hitler-was-jewish/

''DNA analysis of hair samples from a hairbrush claimed to belong to Eva Braun, Hitler’s long-term lover who married the fascist dictator shortly before the couple killed themselves at the end of World War II, shows that it contained the hair of someone who could have had Jewish ancestry. This was, at first, seen as evidence of the jewish origins of Eva Braun, but the hair turned out to have belonged to a male. Considering the controlling nature of the Führer, it is unlikely that hair from another male could have found it’s way on Braun’s hairbrush.

The hairs have a strong provenance: they came from a monogrammed hairbrush found at the end of the Second World War in Eva Braun’s luxurious apartment at Hitler’s Alpine residence, the Berghof in Bavaria, by a young American army intelligence officer. In the summer of 1945 Paul Baer, a US 7th Army captain, was stationned to the Berghof. Working for the precursor of the CIA called the OSS, Baer had privileged access to Hitler’s former retreat and took personal items, including the hairbrush, from Eva Braun’s private apartment. There are photographs of Baer at the Berghof in 1945 and the hairbrush has been formally authenticated by experts.

On his father’s death in the 1970s, Alan Baer sold Braun’s hairbrush to a relic dealer who separated the hair and sold it on to hair dealer John Reznikoff. Mark Evans purchased eight small strands of the hair from Reznikoff for two thousand dollars. The hair was then sent to an international team of forensic scientists for analysis.

The scientists’ analysis revealed something unexpected and extraordinary. They found a rare and specific sequence within the mitochondrial DNA, a small genome within the mitochondria of the cell that is passed down the maternal line from mother to daughter unchanged over the generations, belonging to haplogroup N1b1, which is generally associated with Ashkenazi Jews. In the nineteenth century, many Ashkenazi Jews in Germany converted to Catholicism, so Hitler is highly unlikely to have known his ancestry despite research he instigated into his racial background.

“This is a thought-provoking outcome – I never dreamt that I would find such a potentially extraordinary and profound result,” says Mark Evans. “Racism & Fascism – ideas that one racial group is superior to another – made a mockery of by studying dead famous DNA.”''

[just]

Haploid does not tell all.

[Pjeter Pan]

No, it doesn't mean jack shit. I'm L2* and I'm not an Indian xD

[Voskos]

No, it doesn't mean jack shit. I'm L2* and I'm not an Indian xD

L2 is European though.

[Pjeter Pan]

L2 is European though.

Not r1b1 L2 just L2* its very rare in Europe

[Petros Houhoulis]

No, it doesn't mean jack shit. I'm L2* and I'm not an Indian xD

C'mon now, it's no shame to be a Gypsy...

[Pjeter Pan]

C'mon now, it's no shame to be a Gypsy...

Maybe man, who knows xD 100% euro thou :p

[Mortimer]

Thats quiete the ambigous sensationalist nonsense, if they tested hitlers ydna why they didnt tested him autosomally and deep clade str etc. even commercial companies like ftdna can do that for the average citizen, and you see if your clade is german or jewish or slav etc. mark traced his y clade to be polish etc. just because he was E1b1b doesnt mean anything. If they have Hitler DNA they wouldnt need to speculate, even 23andme can trace small amounts of jewish ancestry, it just means they want to fool the people or leave it ambigous so they can claim whatever they want. They could as well claim he is african since E is common in africa.

[Anglojew]

This article claims that his mtDNA haplogroup might have been Jewish:

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/new-dna-evidence-shows-hitler-was-jewish/

''DNA analysis of hair samples from a hairbrush claimed to belong to Eva Braun, Hitler’s long-term lover who married the fascist dictator shortly before the couple killed themselves at the end of World War II, shows that it contained the hair of someone who could have had Jewish ancestry. This was, at first, seen as evidence of the jewish origins of Eva Braun, but the hair turned out to have belonged to a male. Considering the controlling nature of the Führer, it is unlikely that hair from another male could have found it’s way on Braun’s hairbrush.

The hairs have a strong provenance: they came from a monogrammed hairbrush found at the end of the Second World War in Eva Braun’s luxurious apartment at Hitler’s Alpine residence, the Berghof in Bavaria, by a young American army intelligence officer. In the summer of 1945 Paul Baer, a US 7th Army captain, was stationned to the Berghof. Working for the precursor of the CIA called the OSS, Baer had privileged access to Hitler’s former retreat and took personal items, including the hairbrush, from Eva Braun’s private apartment. There are photographs of Baer at the Berghof in 1945 and the hairbrush has been formally authenticated by experts.

On his father’s death in the 1970s, Alan Baer sold Braun’s hairbrush to a relic dealer who separated the hair and sold it on to hair dealer John Reznikoff. Mark Evans purchased eight small strands of the hair from Reznikoff for two thousand dollars. The hair was then sent to an international team of forensic scientists for analysis.

The scientists’ analysis revealed something unexpected and extraordinary. They found a rare and specific sequence within the mitochondrial DNA, a small genome within the mitochondria of the cell that is passed down the maternal line from mother to daughter unchanged over the generations, belonging to haplogroup N1b1, which is generally associated with Ashkenazi Jews. In the nineteenth century, many Ashkenazi Jews in Germany converted to Catholicism, so Hitler is highly unlikely to have known his ancestry despite research he instigated into his racial background.

“This is a thought-provoking outcome – I never dreamt that I would find such a potentially extraordinary and profound result,” says Mark Evans. “Racism & Fascism – ideas that one racial group is superior to another – made a mockery of by studying dead famous DNA.”''

Doesn't it claim his wife was Jewish? I think that was widely speculated at the time.

Edit: The article seems to conflate Braun's and Hitler's MtDNA? Thanks for the info though.

[Anglojew]

Thats quiete the ambigous sensationalist nonsense, if they tested hitlers ydna why they didnt tested him autosomally and deep clade str etc. even commercial companies like ftdna can do that for the average citizen, and you see if your clade is german or jewish or slav etc. mark traced his y clade to be polish etc. just because he was E1b1b doesnt mean anything. If they have Hitler DNA they wouldnt need to speculate, even 23andme can trace small amounts of jewish ancestry, it just means they want to fool the people or leave it ambigous so they can claim whatever they want. They could as well claim he is african since E is common in africa.

They're claiming he probably wasn't Jewish although there's about a 20% chance he was.

[Vasconcelos]

Hardly, but for instance if I recall correctly even Agrippa was E1b1b. Having a "wierd" haplogroup (which E1b1b isn't) doesn't mean anything if your known origins are all local.

[Black Wolf]

No, it doesn't mean jack shit. I'm L2* and I'm not an Indian xD

I thought you were lol? jk buddy. :P

[Thrax]

Not jewish, maybe balkan

[Demhat]

No, it doesn't mean jack shit. I'm L2* and I'm not an Indian xD

It is because L2 and L3 (especially L2) has nothing to do with Indian ancestry. I think you should do more research about your Haplogroup.

[Artek]

Maybe man, who knows xD 100% euro thou :p
I previously stated what I think about 100%-Euro-concept and involving any percentages to that.

Unless we are speaking about similarity to European mesolithic hunter-gatherers, then you are relatively low % European and higher % European if we consider neolithic farmers to be European. But second concept would overextend genetical "Europeanness", making various Middle-Easterners and East-Mediterraneans quite European.


Anyway, the Hitler's jewishness is a pseudoscientific, politically-stained concept. I don't recall results of his haplogroup being published in any peer-reviewed issue, I don't recall any y-str markers that would help with association, I don't recall any clearly-stated branch he belongs to aside general, outdated name "E1b1b".

He may be E-M35, E-M123 or E-V12 but also he may be, like most "E" Austrians and Germans - E-V13.
A huge minus for genehoaxists.

[Hubal]

Neolithic German

[Mark]

Does Hitler's Y-DNA Haplogroup Imply Jewish Ancestry?

I doubt it. For example, my Y-DNA clade is so 'not' Jewish lol, but I still am. I don't think it means much.

[Jackson]

Possible, but one of many possibilities. The immediate link with Jews is primarily due to the history surrounding the man, so one cannot conclude that it is anything but sensationalist. Some much deeper y-dna testing would be very interesting though.

[Damião de Góis]

Not jewish, maybe balkan

Yes i was about to say it implies balkan ancestry if anything. This haplogroup is highest among balkans, not jews.

[Loki]

I find it interesting that Jews want to claim Hitler as one of their own.

[Jackson]

I find it interesting that Jews want to claim Hitler as one of their own.

Ultimate victory. :P

[The Illyrian Warrior]

C'mon now, it's no shame to be a Gypsy...

The men your replying to score 100% european, lets see how much European a Turanid such as you gonna score. :D

[Ibericus]

the E-V13 is found in about 10% of Austrians, so it's not uncommon, and it has nothing to do with jews, it's neolithic and it peaks in the Balkans. The typical jewish subclade is E-M34

[Anglojew]

Not r1b1 L2 just L2* its very rare in Europe

It's it more likely you're a pigmy?

[Anglojew]

I find it interesting that Jews want to claim Hitler as one of their own.

The conclusion was, despite sensationalist media claims, he's unlikely to be Jewish.

[Pjeter Pan]

It's it more likely you're a pigmy?

Bro, I could be a goddamn rape offspring of an annunaki for all I know.

[Unome]

Not jewish, maybe balkan
Balkanites tend to be warriors/warlords; Hitler was a warlord so it makes complete sense.

[Anglojew]

Bro, I could be a goddamn rape offspring of an annunaki for all I know.

Ha. That's funny

[The Illyrian Warrior]

the E-V13 is found in about 10% of Austrians, so it's not uncommon, and it has nothing to do with jews, it's neolithic and it peaks in the Balkans. The typical jewish subclade is E-M34

Indeed, E-V13 reaches the maximum in Kosovo (over 40%) but this doesn't mean he was Albanian by any chance.

[Bell Beaker]

Hitler was a typical Atlantid man. I have one great-grandeparent picture in my grannie home who is similar to Hitler. Even the Moustache. Creepy. :eek:

[Vasconcelos]

Hitler wasn't "typical Atlantid".

[Longbowman]

Ugh. First, E1b1b is like 12% in AJs and a similar amount in Sephardics, the other 4% being E1b1b1c1[a] which is not Hitler's clade (but is also much more Judaean and would probably have proven Jewish ancestry had Hitler had it, which he did not. Interestingly, Napoleon had E1b1b1c1*). Second, E1b1b is endemic to Germany, especially South Germany where about one in eight people are E1b1b. Are they all Jews? Yes, of course they are, not Neolithic survivors, ironically with a longer lineage in the area than R1b/a folk. Third, being related to Austrian farmers probably shows he wasn't Jewish just by itself.

If E1b1b = Jewish, Israel should annex Albania and Kosovo, but also kick out over 80% of all its Jews because E1b1b and other E clades don't even make 20% of the Jewish population.

E3b is Neolithic, not Jewish.

[Artek]

E3b is Neolithic, not Jewish.
E-V13 is neolithic in Spain but it wasn't found on any other site beside that. That's why I think that it may be more recent in other areas of Europe (Bronze Age and later).

[Longbowman]

E-V13 is neolithic in Spain but it wasn't found on any other site beside that. That's why I think that it may be more recent in other areas of Europe (Bronze Age and later).

It's found all over the European continent in autochtonous populations at low levels, including England and Scandinavia. I would guess it as Neolithic, as you said we can prove it in Spain, bones remain to be found in other areas, but the point is irrelevant, it's an integral part of the German clades.

[Artek]

It's found all over the European continent in autochtonous populations at low levels, including England and Scandinavia. I would guess it as Neolithic, as you said we can prove it in Spain, bones remain to be found in other areas, but the point is irrelevant, it's an integral part of the German clades.
Yes. Whreas migration timeframe may be debated, I agree on the point.

[Thrax]

EV13 seems to paleolithic, read the new theories:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#ice_age

[Longbowman]

EV13 seems to paleolithic, read the new theories:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#ice_age

Not my clade.

[Borna]

I do not believe Hitler was E1b.

[Longbowman]

I do not believe Hitler was E1b.

How about Napoleon, Mussolini and the Wright Brothers?

[Black Wolf]

EV13 seems to paleolithic, read the new theories:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#ice_age

We need ancient DNA to know for sure. It could be Mesolithic or Neolithic in Europe.

[Black Wolf]

I do not believe Hitler was E1b.

Why because that would not match up with your delusional fantasies?

[Borna]

Why because that would not match up with your delusional fantasies?

No, because proofs are not convincing.

[Musso]

Wouldn't mtDNA be a more clear indicator of Jewish ancestry?

[Black Wolf]

Wouldn't mtDNA be a more clear indicator of Jewish ancestry?

Not necessarily.

[wvwvw]

The "Patriarch" of the Balkan E-V13 is Peloponnessos im Greece, so certainly Ancient Greeks spread some of it. It can be found everywhere Greeks went from Marseilles to Pakistan. (Yes some Pakistanis have the Balkan clade!)

And to quote dienekes:

E-V13 does not involve only Greek colonization of coastal areas, but also Epirotes/Macedonians. Greeks moved freely in the region where E-V13 is frequent for 900 years between the time of Alexander and the arrival of the Slavs.

There were plenty of Greek colonies of the Romanian coast, and in Ukraine, not to mention the Bosporan kingdom, and medieval settlements of Greeks in the Crimea, or Phanariotes and Greek traders in present-day Moldova and Romania.

[Borna]

The "Patriarch" of the Balkan E-V13 is Peloponnessos im Greece, so certainly Ancient Greeks spread some of it. It can be found everywhere Greeks went from Marseilles to Pakistan. (Yes some Pakistanis have the Balkan clade!)

And to quote dienekes:

E-V13 does not involve only Greek colonization of coastal areas, but also Epirotes/Macedonians. Greeks moved freely in the region where E-V13 is frequent for 900 years between the time of Alexander and the arrival of the Slavs.


Greeks never been in Marseilles.

[wvwvw]

According to some people's theory, people to the north of Greece got E-V13 from them in the first 3-4ky since the beginning of the Neolithic and not in the next 3-4ky since the emergence and expansion of the recognizable Greek world.

This theory is not very plausible, and fails completely once we consider that E-V13's STR variation is completely incompatible with the Neolithic. This was made manifest by Cruciani et al. even though he used Z.U.F.-style correction factors for the mutation rate (2.4 and 2.6); he still placed the E-V13 expansion in the Bronze Age.

One can make E-V13 Neolithic only by discounting the STR evidence for its age.

There were many Greek colonies in what is now Albania in antiquity, especially from the Peloponnese where E-V13 is very frequent and old, whereas Albanian E-V13 seems much younger. There were also Epirotes and Macedonians near by.

So, it makes excellent sense that the arrow of transmission was Greeks=>Albanians, since E-V13 is more diverse in Greeks than in Albanians, and its origin outside Europe makes it likely that it moved from the Aegean to the Balkans.

And given that Thrace was colonized by Greeks but not the Peloponnese by Thracians, I think the weight of evidence is in favor of a Greek rather than a Thracian origin. The Thracian theory also doesn't explain the strong association of E-V13 with Greek colonization, e.g. in Cyprus or Magna Graecia.

The Phrygians migrated to Asia Minor in the 12th c. BC, so we wouldn't expect them to carry E-V13 there under the scenario of a Bronze Age Greek origin of E-V13. Under a Neolithic scenario, E-V13 would already be frequent among them, and they would have introduced it to Asia Minor.

[Highlands]

E-V13 is "Balkan" not just Greek. :)
Why does Eupedia say I2a1 is Illyrian/Thracian, do they know for sure?

[Pjeter Pan]

How about Napoleon, Mussolini and the Wright Brothers?

All gheg highlanders

[Pjeter Pan]

If e-v13 is Greek than why do kosovar Albanians have the highest percentage in all of europe?

[wvwvw]

E-V13 isn't a quantifier of Greek genetics, it is one of many Greek founding lineages.

The diversity in the Peloponnese is higher than in Albanians. This is consistent with the foundation of Greek colonies in the Adriatic by Peloponnesians who carried a subset of the genetic diversity which had accumulated in the source region. By contrast, E-V13 diversity is lower in Thessaly than in the Peloponnese, a contradiction of your "Thessalian Neolithic" thesis.

Repeating Pericic isn't going to solve the problem of E-V13 being more frequent in Bulgaria and Albania than in the supposed corridor leading to Central Europe.

In any case, there is no study of the geographical distribution within the studied countries in Pericic to substantiate the claim of concentration close to rivers. Using a wrong mutation rate => wrong date => wrong archaeological correlates.

Peloponnesian E-V13 is more than twice as old.

[Borna]

Peloponnesian E-V13 is more than twice as old.

No, its not. E-v13 among Greeks only shows how many Albanians you asimilated.

[Pjeter Pan]

E-V13 isn't a quantifier of Greek genetics, it is one of many Greek founding lineages.

The diversity in the Peloponnese is higher than in Albanians. This is consistent with the foundation of Greek colonies in the Adriatic by Peloponnesians who carried a subset of the genetic diversity which had accumulated in the source region. By contrast, E-V13 diversity is lower in Thessaly than in the Peloponnese, a contradiction of your "Thessalian Neolithic" thesis.

Repeating Pericic isn't going to solve the problem of E-V13 being more frequent in Bulgaria and Albania than in the supposed corridor leading to Central Europe.

In any case, there is no study of the geographical distribution within the studied countries in Pericic to substantiate the claim of concentration close to rivers. Using a wrong mutation rate => wrong date => wrong archaeological correlates.

Peloponnesian E-V13 is more than twice as old.

Where are you getting this info from?

" Within Europe, E-V13 is especially common in the Balkans and some parts of Italy. In different studies, particularly high frequencies have been observed in Kosovar Albanians (45.6%) (Peričic et al. (2005)), Macedonian Albanians (34.4% reported in Battaglia et al. (2008)), and in some parts of Greece (about 35% in some of the areas studied by King et al. (2008).[14] More generally, high frequencies have also been found in other areas of Greece, and amongst Bulgarians, Romanians, Macedonians and Serbs.[4][12][15][16]"

[wvwvw]

If e-v13 is Greek than why do kosovar Albanians have the highest percentage in all of europe?

Call it the founder effect. Btw in Peloponnesos E-V13 is as high as in Kosovo if not higher.

The age and distribution of E-V13 chromosomes suggest that expansions of the Greek world in the Bronze and later ages were the major causes of its diffusion.

Who was the E-V13 patriarch in Greece? He was perhaps one of the legendary figures of Greek mythology some of whom are said to have come from abroad. For whatever reason, his progeny grew, and were around to participate in the expansion of the Mycenaean world and the subsequent Greek colonization.

There are probably three sources of E-V13 north of Greece: Epirotic E-V13 (E-V13 is high in Epirus, the region identified by Aristotle as ancient Hellas), Macedonian E-V13; it is well known that the Macedonians dominated and Hellenized the barbarians to their north; as well as southern Greek, especially Corinthian/Dorian from the coastal colonies of what is now Albania.

[Arch Hades]

Is their any downstream information about Hitler's E1b1b? Because if it's just E1b1b it could easily be Austrian as well as Jewish...the frequencies in Jews are about 3x what it is in Austrians, but still there's tons of Austrian and Southern Germans carryinging E1b1b. So no, I'd say any speculations about it being Jewish are purely conjecture at this point.

[wvwvw]

No, its not. E-v13 among Greeks only shows how many Albanians you asimilated.

Except E-V13 is twice as old in Greece and more diverse. Also explain its strong presence in Cyprus. How many Albanians did Cypriots assimilate?

Even some Pakistanis have the balkan clade of E-v13. I suppose Albanians colonised Pakistan too :laugh:

[Pjeter Pan]

Call it the founder effect. Btw in Peloponnesos E-V13 is as high as in Kosovo if not higher.

The age and distribution of E-V13 chromosomes suggest that expansions of the Greek world in the Bronze and later ages were the major causes of its diffusion.

Who was the E-V13 patriarch in Greece? He was perhaps one of the legendary figures of Greek mythology some of whom are said to have come from abroad. For whatever reason, his progeny grew, and were around to participate in the expansion of the Mycenaean world and the subsequent Greek colonization.

There are probably three sources of E-V13 north of Greece: Epirotic E-V13 (E-V13 is high in Epirus, the region identified by Aristotle as ancient Hellas), Macedonian E-V13; it is well known that the Macedonians dominated and Hellenized the barbarians to their north; as well as southern Greek, especially Corinthian/Dorian from the coastal colonies of what is now Albania.

What are you on lol.

E-v13 is not Greek or Albanian. It can't belong to an ethnicity. Like crya said its Balkan.

[Pjeter Pan]

Except E-V13 is twice as old in Greece and more diverse. Also explain its strong presence in Cyprus. How many Albanians did Cypriots assimilate?

Even some Pakistanis have the balkan clade of E-v13. I suppose Albanians colonised Pakistan too :laugh:

Not colonised but raped when we were in the armies of Alexander the great :D

[wvwvw]

No, its not. E-v13 among Greeks only shows how many Albanians you asimilated.

First of all Arvanites were Greeks (according to themselves and their oral traditions) but even so

1) Arvanites settled in very specific Greek locations and quite recently (less than 1000 years for sure), but E-V13 is found all over Greece, in Greek testees from Asia Minor, in Crete, in Cyprus. Indeed, it is one of the most uniformly distributed haplogroups in Greece, which is inconsistent with it being the result of recent admixture.

2) To reach Albania, E-V13 must have passed through Greece. It is less parsimonious to suggest that E-V13 flew over Greece to its north and then back to Greece

3) Peloponnesians have both more of it and it is more diverse in them than in Albanians

4) Admixture can sometimes lead to increased diversity, but this happens when differentiated undetected subclades of a haplogroup mix. On the other hand, E-V13 has a very clear starlike phylogeny and thus this is not the case. The mix of pre-Arvanite and Arvanite E-V13 would simply not increase STR variance by much.

5) There is good evidence that the Albanians did not inhabit the region they now inhabit originally. Albanian lacks sea-related vocabulary and Greek loan words, which would be strange if they were the next-door neighbors of the Greeks since prehistory.

The E-V13 in Albania is probably the result of absorption of pre-Albanian speakers, particularly Epirotes and the descendants of Greek colonists from the Peloponnese.

[Pjeter Pan]

Jesus Christ xD

[wvwvw]

Jesus Christ xD

If point #5 is valid, and Albanian-speakers didn't inhabit Albania in the past, then it would be even less likely that E-V13 would have reached them bypassing Greece, since no one seriously suggests that Albanians originated to the south or east of Greece (from where E-V13 must have come from).

E-V13 haplotypes in Greece, Albania, and indeed the rest of Europe belong to a single star cluster. It's simply the case that they are more diverse in Greece than in Albania. This has been ascertained both by Cruciani and is evident also in the separate Albanian sample of Bosch.

Now, if the Albanians lived in their present-day location (northwest of Greece by the Adriatic) for a long time, their language would have both sea-related terms and ancient Greek loan words, since the Greeks were in that area for 3ky.

The location of the early Albanians is to be sought to the northeast of their present-day location, in the interior of the Balkan peninsula, somewhere where (i) they wouldn't be close to the sea, (ii) wouldn't be close to Greeks.

[Pjeter Pan]

If point #5 is valid, and Albanian-speakers didn't inhabit Albania in the past, then it would be even less likely that E-V13 would have reached them bypassing Greece, since no one seriously suggests that Albanians originated to the south or east of Greece (from where E-V13 must have come from).

How long has e-v13 been in the Balkans 10,000 years? Like I said you can't give it an ethnicity since it predates Greece

[Pjeter Pan]

Bro I fucking love you :rotfl:

[Skerdilaid]

If point #5 is valid, and Albanian-speakers didn't inhabit Albania in the past, then it would be even less likely that E-V13 would have reached them bypassing Greece, since no one seriously suggests that Albanians originated to the south or east of Greece (from where E-V13 must have come from).

E-V13 haplotypes in Greece, Albania, and indeed the rest of Europe belong to a single star cluster. It's simply the case that they are more diverse in Greece than in Albania. This has been ascertained both by Cruciani and is evident also in the separate Albanian sample of Bosch.

Now, if the Albanians lived in their present-day location (northwest of Greece by the Adriatic) for a long time, their language would have both sea-related terms and ancient Greek loan words, since the Greeks were in that area for 3ky.

The location of the early Albanians is to be sought to the northeast of their present-day location, in the interior of the Balkan peninsula, somewhere where (i) they wouldn't be close to the sea, (ii) wouldn't be close to Greeks.

crank, what do you think the E-V13 Spaniard Neolithic farmer was ethnically? Strange that he seems to match all the Balkan examples of today, and also the French and other examples from other regions of Europe, yet he lived 7000 years ago:

Analysis of shared haplotypes showed that the G2a haplotype found in ancient specimens is rare in current populations: its frequency is <0.3% (Table S3). The haplotype of individual ave07 is more frequent (2.44%), particularly in southeastern European populations (up to 7%). The Ave07 haplotype was also compared with current Eb1b1a2 haplotypes previously published (10–14). It appeared identical at the seven markers tested to five Albanian, two Bosnian, one Greek, one Italian, one Sicilian, two Corsican, and two Provence French samples and are thus placed on the same node of the E1b1b1a1b-V13 network as eastern, central, and western Mediterranean haplotypes (Fig. S1).

[wvwvw]

E-V13 is "Balkan" not just Greek. :)
Why does Eupedia say I2a1 is Illyrian/Thracian, do they know for sure?

E-V13 isn't a quantifier of Greek genetics, it is one of many Greek founding lineages. But it id older in Greece than in any other place in Balkans.

I have not seen any evidence that E-V13 in the Balkans originated in Thrace. This hypothesis has more to do with a romantic fascination with the Thracians than with any actual evidence.

With that said, a possible origin of Albanians in Thrace solves none of the problems that I mentioned (sea terms and lack of Greek loan-words). Indeed, one would expect Albanian to have even more Greek loan words if it originated in Thrace, as Thrace was even more heavily colonized by Greeks than the Adriatic coast.

On the European side of the Black Sea, Greek colonization along the west coast was quite heavy up through the Danube delta and beyond. We are talking major settlements.

To the south of the line, in the coastal area of Thrace, the population was almost entirely Greek and were so from antiquity through the early 20th century. These were quite large populations compared to the interior.

[wvwvw]

crank, what do you think the E-V13 Spaniard Neolithic farmer was ethnically? Strange that he seems to match all the Balkan examples of today, and also the French and other examples from other regions of Europe, yet he lived 7000 years ago:

E-v13 is very little in Spain. If the Neolithic spread to Iberia by a maritime route, and the haplotype has links to Mediterranean populations, the easiest explanation is that it spread across the Mediterranean from the east, directly.

[wvwvw]

E-V13 is neolithic in Spain but it wasn't found on any other site beside that. That's why I think that it may be more recent in other areas of Europe (Bronze Age and later).

+1

[Skerdilaid]

E-v13 is very little in Spain. If the Neolithic spread to Iberia by a maritime route, and the haplotype has links to Mediterranean populations, the easiest explanation is that it spread across the Mediterranean from the east, directly.

I am quite ignorant on this field, so please explain it to me like you would to a 2 year old. How is it possible if it spread from Greece, which I don't doubt it, if Greeks existed then, that the Spaniard example matches the Balkan, Italian, French etc. examples even though he lived 7000 years ago? Are we talking about a Spanish colonization now instead of a Greek one, since that is our earliest find so far?

[wvwvw]

I am quite ignorant on this field, so please explain it to me like you would to a 2 year old. How is it possible if it spread from Greece, which I don't doubt it, if Greeks existed then, that the Spaniard example matches the Balkan, Italian, French etc. examples even though he lived 7000 years ago? Are we talking about a Spanish colonization now instead of a Greek one, since that is our earliest find so far?

See Artek's post above and also explain to me why E-v13 is so rare in Iberia but so widespread in Cyprus and Asia Minor Greeks (besides mainland Greeks)

[wvwvw]

Hitler had balkan/greek y-dna, there is no way a morphologically germancel was able to DOMinate all those borrebies into killing for him. The power of the Balkans, populated by the last tribes who survived the fall of atlantis, is the only thing that could've set in motion such a task.


Aren't many Jews descended from Greco-Roman converts to Judaism?

[Skerdilaid]

See Artek's post above and also explain to me why E-v13 is so rare in Iberia but so widespread in Cyprus and Asia Minor Greeks (besides mainland Greeks)

Artek's posts seems to contradict what you have been copy & pasting from Dienekes site so far, and according to him it's more recent in Balkans. So, Spanish colonization?

[wvwvw]

The reason why EV-13 existed in Spain is because it was part of the Balkan Empire back in the day. Atlantis used to connect Iberia with Britain but also with Liberia (thus the iberian-dinaric-west african look can still be found in England today, known as keltic congoid) but was sank during the terrible Pastel Wars (the greek food "pasteli"-made of crusty bread and honey was used as dry rations by the soldiers in that conflict thus it was called as such) and gave birth to what is today known as the "Atlantic Facade". Many balkanic dinaro-med and dinaric types survive in Iberia today and their blood is the reason why so many mighty empires arose in that place and why they were able to resist the moorish invasions locally. Even balkan lore surivives in their blood which is why they have knowledge of the Atlantic Facade as if by instinct and fight with each other a lot.

So much nonsense concentrated in one post :roll eyes

[wvwvw]

E-v13 is very little in Spain. If the Neolithic spread to Iberia by a maritime route, and the haplotype has links to Mediterranean populations, the easiest explanation is that it spread across the Mediterranean from the east, directly.

This

[wvwvw]

Artek's posts seems to contradict what you have been copy & pasting from Dienekes site so far, and according to him it's more recent in Balkans. So, Spanish colonization?

Funny that you'll speak of Spanish colonization when E-v13 didn't manage to colonise Spain. How is that there is so little E-v13 in Spain?

[Pjeter Pan]

Funny that you'll speak of Spanish colonization when E-v13 didn't manage to colonise Spain. How is that there is so little E-v13 in Spain?

It probably got there because of the romans

[Skerdilaid]

Funny that you'll speak of Spanish colonization when E-v13 didn't manage to colonise Spain. How is that there is so little E-v13 in Spain?

I thought numbers did not matter, since they can be explained by founder effect, and diversity and age are more important on determining its origin. Didn't you just preach that few posts ago?

[wvwvw]

It probably got there because of the romans

7000 BC there were no Romans, but there were Pelasgians who later claimed they were autochonus and prided themselves on being Hellenes ;)
Greeks did settle in Spain:

There were a number of Greek colonies and settlements in Spain, France, Monaco and Portugal (this last country consisted of a few traders) The Greeks did not dominate these regions as they did in Magna Gracia or in the Cyrenaica in Libya for example, they did however have a lasting influence.

One of the first Greeks to make it to the edge of the Mediterranean was a powerful and heroic man, and I’m not talking about me here. It was the great Hercules who built the Pillars of Hercules on either side of the Gibraltar straits to signify the supposed geographical limit of the known world.

Herodotus tells us that another Greek, Captain Kolaios of Samos and his crew mistakenly sailed past the Pillars of Hercules and landed in the region of Tartessos in southern Spain (near Portugal) in the 7th century BC. The Greeks exchanged goods and whilst working on their tans made a strong friendship with the king. Kolaios and his crew returned to Samos with Iberian (Spanish) silver and minerals and stories of potential new trading lands.

Within decades the Greeks had established a strong trading presence in Iberia and supplemented these activities by establishing settlements. Some scholars debate the size and the existence of a number of the settlements. It is certain that a town existed in the region approaching modern Gibraltar and within the boundaries of Tartessos. The town was called Mainake however not much is known about its history. Another town located in southern Iberia but facing the east was Hemerskopeion. These places ensured that Greek merchants could facilitate their trade with Iberians and had a base that was not controlled by their great rivals the Phoenicians. Many archeological sites in southern Spain have unearthed Greek pottery from the 700’s BC onwards.

Phocaea – a name I can’t pronounce and is a place I have never been to. This was a great city on the coast of Asia Minor towards the Hellespont. It was captured by the Persians in 545BC, however its maritime activities in the 200 years prior to this date led to the establishment of some of the greatest cities in the world.

During the great Greek colonial epoch of antiquity the Phocaeans established the colonies of Emporion and Rhode in northern Spain (above Barcelona). The latter colony was established before the ancient Olympic Games and the former was to become an important centre of commerce. The presence of Greeks in the southern regions of Spain and Portugal was to last until the seventh century AD when Byzantine control was overthrown.

The Phocaeans established the colony of Massalia about 600BC. A local story tells us that Protis from Phocaea was invited to a “coming out” event by a local king for his daughter. Protis was your typical Adonis (or perhaps a Hercules) looking Greek so the girl fell in love with Protis and they were given as dowry the land in what would become Massalia.

Massalia which today is known as Marseille (France) was to develop as a leading city in the Mediterranean and was the first Greek colony in the west to reach a population of over 1000. It was a city that remained independent until 49 BC when it was captured by Julius Caesar after a 6 month siege. The locals resisted as best as they could using all their Herculean reserves in the process. The City was one of the last of the Greek colonies in the far west to retain its Greek character and language, holding on at least until the arrival of the Visigoths in fifth century AD and into the next.

Massalia founded a number of other colonies in the region including Agathe, Olbia, Antipolis and Nicaea. Nicaea was founded by the Massalians in 350BC after a victory over a neighbouring kingdom. The City was named after the Greek Goddess of Victory, Nike and is not to be confused with any sponsorship deals involving Tiger Woods. I have been to both Nice and Marseilles and it is amazing that from such humble, Greek origins they are today large and vibrant French ci

[wvwvw]

You are in a state of complete confusion, Raine.

Specify what you find confusing about my posts

[wvwvw]

I thought numbers did not matter, since they can be explained by founder effect, and diversity and age are more important on determining its origin. Didn't you just preach that few posts ago?

The E- v13 in Greece is twice as old as that found in Kosovo. It is also more diverse. You didn't adress any of my previous posts nor answered the question why it is common in Cypriots. and both among mainland and Asia Minor Greek.

[wvwvw]

First of all, EV-13 was found in neolithic spain. The samples weren't even bronze age so any sort of "greek" colonization there is highly unlikely. Second of all, the "pellasgian this pellasgian that" is on par with my BALKAN rant that I went on earlier. Proponents of this retarded theory support that even Sumerians were pellasgian simply on the virtue of some isolated word relations.

Even still EV-13 has not yet been found in neolithic balkan samples but it has been found in later times if I remember right so there is a good chance that it arrived later there. (or our sample size is not enough)

Pelasgians may well have been pre-historic or proto Greeks, themselves claimed they were an autochonus people "that did not come from elsewhere"

But regardness we know they later took part in the Greek ethnogenesis and they called themselves Hellenes.

How do you know Pelasgians didn't precede Mycaeneans by thousands of years?

Pelasgians were an autochtonus Aegean civilization and had nothing to do with Sumerians and even if they had, they wouldn't have been the same if they had lived in Greece for thousands of years. They would have evolved differently.

[Musso]

I'd suppose that E-V13 in Austria is due to Roman/SE European input rather than Germanic or Northern European. E-V13 seems more Med-centric than Northern or Western European.

[wvwvw]

Every greek writer and their mother had a different theory for the Pellasgians, albeit everyone putting them in greece. Some thought them a different greek ethnic group, other a tribe that dwelt side by side with the hellenes but was outbred by them and a shitton of other theories such as them being the ancestors of the Peloponnesians and a military tribe that gave the arcadians their warlike customs.

Herodotus puts them in Thessaly, another in the Peloponnese, another in Crete, another in all of these places-fuck me but it seems that they didn't have a clue as to who the Pellasgians really were. And we all know that greek historians are shady as all hell when it comes to deducing the origin of some peoples and that they love to mention contradicting myths and legends all the time. They all do a great job at cataloguing and describing the ethnic situation of their contemporaries but very little to that of their ancestors.

Furthermore how do you know that the Pellasgians were predominately E? They could've been G and the Hellenes outbreeding them theory could actually be true if it turns out that E was a late neolithic or bronze age y-dna like J2 was in Hungary.

Didn't the ancestor of E-V13 originate in Africa? It probably arrived in Greece from Egypt.

If Pelasgians were the oldest people to inhabit Greece then it is likely they were E-V13 and not R1b or R1a. Dorians were latecomers and carried Indo-Euro ydna. It is unlikely that they'd have any connection with Egyptians or Levantines.

Even Pelasgians were probably mixed and carried different haplogroups, we can only assume they were predominantly E-V13.

[wvwvw]

I am not saying E-v13 is African, it is a Balkan ydna. But the common ancestor of E-v12 and E-v13 must have originated in Africa (I am speaking about thousand and thousands years far back in time)

E-V22 is found primarily in western Ethiopia, northern Egypt and in the southern Levant. In Europe it is therefore associated with the Phoenicians and the Jews. The Phoenicians could have disseminated E-V22 to Sicily, Sardinia, southern Spain and the Maghreb, and the Jews to Greece and mainland Italy and Spain. However, V22 might have been found among Mesolithic South Europeans like V13.
E-V12 is the most common subclade of M78 in southern Egypt (over 40% of the population), while its V32 subclade is the dominant paternal lineage in Somalia, southern Ethiopia and northern Kenya. The moderate presence of V12* in the Near East and across Europe (except Nordic countries) indicates that it could have been a minor Mesolithic South European lineage accompanying E-V13. Its V32 subclade has not been found outside Northeast Africa.

[wvwvw]

Oh, and it is also very strong in Crete (G y-dna) which was another traditional but "mixed" pellasgian place according to some half-baked legends sprouting out of the Illiad.

Is it unlikely that they were both?

[Musso]

I think we can all agree that E-V13 is not a Germanic or Northern/Western European Haplogroup. Hitler having that haplogroup just points to the fact that he is part of a minority of Austrians that hold that haplogroup, which points to a neolithic lineage that is predominant in Southern and Southeastern Europe. Nothing can really be said about Jewish ancestry.

[Musso]

"Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage [of E-M78] that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%)"

[Longbowman]

"Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage [of E-M78] that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%)"

EV13 is 8% in South Germany, West Germany and Austria and about 12% in Ashkenazis.

[Ulla]

How about Napoleon, Mussolini and the Wright Brothers?

Mussolini? Any reliable source? Never heard of this.

[Tiberio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVeAAUaD0M

[Highlands]

If point #5 is valid, and Albanian-speakers didn't inhabit Albania in the past, then it would be even less likely that E-V13 would have reached them bypassing Greece, since no one seriously suggests that Albanians originated to the south or east of Greece (from where E-V13 must have come from).

E-V13 haplotypes in Greece, Albania, and indeed the rest of Europe belong to a single star cluster. It's simply the case that they are more diverse in Greece than in Albania. This has been ascertained both by Cruciani and is evident also in the separate Albanian sample of Bosch.
.

That doesn't mean anything...
Latest theory is that it came via Sicily to Greece and then spread north. Naturally it will have highest diversity in Greece, because it's the route of migration. It just shows Paleo-Balkanites were all related to each other and it's evident to this day. Romanians, Greeks etc have similar ratios of Neolithic components. Basically all Balkanites may have had origins in Greece, but went on to form their respective populations (Thracian, Illyrian etc).

[Artek]

I thought numbers did not matter, since they can be explained by founder effect, and diversity and age are more important on determining its origin. Didn't you just preach that few posts ago?
I would say that general branching combined with aDNA is even more imporant than diversity itself. Diversity of lineages can be inflated by various demographic event. Many haplogroups are diverse in Italy only because "Roman Empire thing".

Numbers don't matter for sure!

[Musso]

EV13 is 8% in South Germany, West Germany and Austria and about 12% in Ashkenazis.

Let's put that in relative terms.

In Austria the frequency of haplogroups is R1b (32%), R1a(19%), I1(12%), J2 (9%), and finally EV13 at 8%, according to Eupedia. In Southern Germany it's a similar story.

If we rank the european countries with highest EV13 frequencies, we get: Kosovo, Albania, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Sicily, Cyprus, Serbia, Romania, Portugal, Italy, Moldova, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Turkey/Anatolia, Croatia, Malta, Hungary, and then finally Austria.

Hence,

E-V13, while existing in Austrian and German populations, is definitely not a typical haplogroup in that region and peoples, it is most dominant in Southeastern Europe, especially Balkans, and exists on a much less frequency among Germanic people and other Northern European/Atlantic people.

[Longbowman]

Let's put that in relative terms.

In Austria the frequency of haplogroups is R1b (32%), R1a(19%), I1(12%), J2 (9%), and finally EV13 at 8%, according to Eupedia. In Southern Germany it's a similar story.

If we rank the european countries with highest EV13 frequencies, we get: Kosovo, Albania, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Sicily, Cyprus, Serbia, Romania, Portugal, Italy, Moldova, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Turkey/Anatolia, Croatia, Malta, Hungary, and then finally Austria.

Hence,

E-V13, while existing in Austrian and German populations, is definitely not a typical haplogroup in that region and peoples, it is most dominant in Southeastern Europe, especially Balkans, and exists on a much less frequency among Germanic people and other Northern European/Atlantic people.

Regardless, being EV13 doesn't disqualify you from being an ethnic German or Brit or Scando.

[Musso]

Regardless, being EV13 doesn't disqualify you from being an ethnic German or Brit or Scando.

It doesn't disqualify you of course, just saying that EV13 is not typical in those areas and Hitler did have an atypical y-haplogroup being an Austrian/South German. And given Hitler's ideology on the superiority of the Germanic/Nordic race, it's a bit ironic, since EV13 is definitely not Germanic nor is very common among Germanic/Nordic people.

[Thrax]

I wouldn't consider 8% atypical. If it was less than 5% then it would be atypical.

[Thrax]

Greeks never been in Marseilles.

lol, Greeks founded Marseille.

[Musso]

I wouldn't consider 8% atypical. If it was less than 5% then it would be atypical.

It's semantics at this point, but there are about four haplogroups more typical than EV13 in Austrian population. And given we are comparing just to other European populations (rather than the whole world) it's not that typical.

[Thrax]

It's semantics at this point, but there are about four haplogroups more typical than EV13 in Austrian population. And given we are comparing just to other European populations (rather than the whole world) it's not that typical.

Still, considering that Austria has 8.5 million inhabitants and E1b1b is 8%, then it should around 340000 men with that haplogroup (if we calculate that men make for 50% of the population). The number is even higher in Germany (around 2 million men)

[Longbowman]

It doesn't disqualify you of course, just saying that EV13 is not typical in those areas and Hitler did have an atypical y-haplogroup being an Austrian/South German. And given Hitler's ideology on the superiority of the Germanic/Nordic race, it's a bit ironic, since EV13 is definitely not Germanic nor is very common among Germanic/Nordic people.

It's certainly not an Aryan (Indo-European) type, but then neither is I.

[Musso]

Still, considering that Austria has 8.5 million inhabitants and E1b1b is 8%, then it should around 340000 men with that haplogroup (if we calculate that men make for 50% of the population). The number is even higher in Germany (around 2 million men)

True, but Austria has slightly more amount of men with J2 than with E1b1b.

[Ulla]

How about Napoleon, Mussolini and the Wright Brothers?


Mussolini? Any reliable source? Never heard of this.

Bumb!

[Longbowman]

Bumb!

I could not find a reliable source, only a 'hamitic race' site, so I retract my comment.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Hitler was Greek.

[oh-nahhh]

Seems legit.

[dralos]

ev13 is known to be for the true habitants of balkan aka alboz thats why its most common in kosova albania and montenegro

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

it is well known that his family was from the highlands of peja in ghegia (where im from)

Really?

[Longbowman]

Really?

No.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

No.

Oh.

[dralos]

whats even more surprising is that this isn't even including the diaspora albanians (there are more diaspora albanians than people actually living there/in kosovo)
true it will be off the roof ahah