View Full Version : Classify half Palestinian, half Dutch Gigi Hadid
liamliam
01-14-2015, 08:37 PM
http://letsgotorio.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/g1.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/06/e7/60/06e760fea041f549cb5b3f374566fe18.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d1/eb/58/d1eb5884ddd53e6516d6883bb244c2b7.jpg
http://www3.images.coolspotters.com/photos/966270/gigi-hadid-gallery.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/1b/c1/c4/1bc1c46075cd41bb0b6efa5898df5f4a.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQeqZsmOzW2z2Lhu32TELT8eACb_ueYG Yzyr8IZc2T4iOZKTVbd
http://www.grazia.fr/var/grazia/storage/images/mode/news/pourquoi-gigi-hadid-est-la-top-la-plus-excitante-du-moment-674308/11718276-1-fre-FR/Pourquoi-Gigi-Hadid-est-la-top-la-plus-excitante-du-moment.jpg
http://airows.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/936full-gigi-hadid-14.jpg
http://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/gigi-hadid-crimped-hair-love-loathe-lead.jpg?w=600
http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2014/05/gigi-hadid-cameos-miguels-simple-things-video.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c1/cd/f7/c1cdf7c16f3d594ffa5f8df9806b1a7d.jpg
StonyArabia
01-14-2015, 08:39 PM
Sub Nordid her mom is Dutch American her father is Palestinian.
Interesting. However, there are better pictures of her.
http://www.glamour.com/images/beauty/2014/10/gigi-hadid-glowing-skin-glowing-glossy-w540.jpg
randomguy1235
01-14-2015, 08:42 PM
Very strange look for her mix. Do you have a picture of her parents?
Very strange look for her mix. Do you have a picture of her parents?
Mother (ex-model)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yolanda_Foster
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Yolanda+Foster+Family+Equality+Council+Annual+KAiK Z2JadVbl.jpg
randomguy1235
01-14-2015, 08:44 PM
Mother (ex-model)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yolanda_Foster
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Yolanda+Foster+Family+Equality+Council+Annual+KAiK Z2JadVbl.jpg
I meant her father more so. She (not the mother) looks part SSA to me.
I meant her father more so. She looks part SSA to me.
Mohamed Hadid
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-qMzjK_2zCTE/Uxz34huAEcI/AAAAAAACR_A/18zKOKKzEr4/image_thumb5_thumb.png?imgmax=800
All their children
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-LO2qkH2TxxM/Uxz37TGQsFI/AAAAAAACR_Q/72FmTujrt2A/image_thumb6_thumb.png?imgmax=800
They are white to me, including him.
randomguy1235
01-14-2015, 08:51 PM
Mohamed Hadid
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-qMzjK_2zCTE/Uxz34huAEcI/AAAAAAACR_A/18zKOKKzEr4/image_thumb5_thumb.png?imgmax=800
All their children
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-LO2qkH2TxxM/Uxz37TGQsFI/AAAAAAACR_Q/72FmTujrt2A/image_thumb6_thumb.png?imgmax=800
They are white to me, including him.
Oh wow. She looks very strange then for her mix.
Oh wow. She looks very strange then for her mix.
Yeah, he doesn't even look Middle Eastern, let alone SSA. I wouldn't have guessed he is Palestinian, not European.
Arbërori
01-14-2015, 08:55 PM
Her father is extremely light for Palestinian.
If I didn't know that, I'd say she's Dutch. She looks a lot like Gemma Ward.
StonyArabia
03-25-2015, 09:11 PM
She is a beauty god bless Palestine.
armenianbodyhair
03-25-2015, 10:41 PM
That Palestinian looks like a wasp I know. I don't know how thus result can be explained.
Kamal900
03-25-2015, 11:09 PM
That Palestinian looks like a wasp I know. I don't know how thus result can be explained.
Her father is from Galilee, and mahmoud darwish, who is a famous palestinian poet, is also from that region and he looked just as light as he is. My maternal grand uncle in Germany looked a lot like her dad, and all of my cousins are very blonde and etc. Now, does that phenotype is common among the Palestinians and levantines? FUCK NO.
Don Arb
03-25-2015, 11:12 PM
What a damn beauty, Godd
Taiga Lake
03-26-2015, 08:56 PM
Her dad looks white, i wonder how Arab he really is.
Ivan Kramskoï
05-25-2015, 07:40 PM
Looks foreign to me, don't know it's jut an impression I have.
lionheart
05-25-2015, 08:00 PM
father could pass in southern europe i believe!mom is a super milf!!!daughter is beautyful she took the appearance of her mother so she is close to sub nordid!
Seth MacFarlane
05-25-2015, 08:19 PM
Is her father Muslim ? Even the palestinan christians aren't always that white looking . Doesent look Levantine at all. Indo european leftover
Kamal900
05-25-2015, 08:27 PM
Is her father Muslim ? Even the palestinan christians aren't always that white looking . Doesent look Levantine at all. Indo european leftover
Yes, he is, and he's from Acre as well. I mean, i do score 8 percent southern European in my genepool.
Bagot
05-26-2015, 12:31 AM
Her father is extremely light for Palestinian.
If I didn't know that, I'd say she's Dutch. She looks a lot like Gemma Ward.
Surely not average Palestinians, but there are some that look European especially in the Palestinian upper-class.
Yes, her mother is a full Dutch former model (Yolanda van den Herik) not an American Dutch. Clearly Gigi looks more like her mother (she was very light, not all the Dutch are so stereotypical blond like her) rather than her father.
Surely not average Palestinians, but there are some that look European especially in the Palestinian upper-class.
Yes, her mother is a full Dutch former model (Yolanda van den Herik) not an American Dutch. Clearly Gigi looks more like her mother (she was very light, not all the Dutch are so stereotypical blond like her) rather than her father.
Why is this odd? While most of the Muslim ones originate in Egypt and Jordan/Arabia, some also immigrated from the Balkans, the Caucasus, Central Asia, Sudan and more. They have far more diversity than the other Arabic speaking people, because they are a mixture of populations (to a greater extent). Don't forget that they are all called Palestinian today only for political reasons.
Even so, her father is extremely atypical for a Muslim Arab from that area (If he was Christian just a bit atypical). He actually looks like he has some British ancestry.
I once saw an Iraqi with the Name Hadid on TV ,funnily he was light too.
She is super hot BTW.
Anglojew
05-26-2015, 06:30 AM
I meant her father more so. She (not the mother) looks part SSA to me.
I can't see that.
Anglojew
05-26-2015, 06:32 AM
Palestinians look slightly different from other arabs... I sometimes wonder if they are "true" arabs... or just Aramaeans who have been Arabnized...
80% of Palestinians descend from Judeans and Samaritans.
Anglojew
05-26-2015, 06:33 AM
Her dad looks white, i wonder how Arab he really is.
Obviously Judean
Kamal900
05-26-2015, 06:37 AM
Why is this odd? While most of the Muslim ones originate in Egypt and Jordan/Arabia, some also immigrated from the Balkans, the Caucasus, Central Asia, Sudan and more. They have far more diversity than the other Arabic speaking people, because they are a mixture of populations (to a greater extent). Don't forget that they are all called Palestinian today only for political reasons.
Even so, her father is extremely atypical for a Muslim Arab from that area (If he was Christian just a bit atypical). He actually looks like he has some British ancestry.
I once saw an Iraqi with the Name Hadid on TV ,funnily he was light too.
She is super hot BTW.
Why you think that the Muslim ones originated from Egypt or whatever? While its a known fact that the Muslims in the Levant do have admixture from these places, but at the same time they are largely indigenous to the area. The Ashkenazi Jews are genetically 50 percent European admixed, and they're aren't purely Levantine as well. Besides, I'm genetically Levantine btw:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?171281-My-GEDmatch-results
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?171264-My-family-tree-DNA-autosomal-results
My kind call themselves in such a term in order to have our own country to live in. If Israel wasn't based on ultra-Zionist Jewish nationalism where discrimination against non-Jews is encouraged by the state and religious leaders, and if the nation was built on the co-operation and effort from Jews and non-Jews together then i would consider calling myself an Israeli.
Anglojew
05-26-2015, 06:43 AM
Why you think that the Muslim ones originated from Egypt or whatever? While its a known fact that the Muslims in the Levant do have admixture from these places, but at the same time they are largely indigenous to the area. The Ashkenazi Jews are genetically 50 percent European admixed, and they're aren't purely Levantine as well. Besides, I'm genetically Levantine btw:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?171281-My-GEDmatch-results
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?171264-My-family-tree-DNA-autosomal-results
My kind call themselves in such a term in order to have our own country to live in. If Israel wasn't based on ultra-Zionist Jewish nationalism where discrimination against non-Jews is encouraged by the state and religious leaders, and if the nation was built on the co-operation and effort from Jews and non-Jews together then i would consider calling myself an Israeli.
الشرق أوسطية (العربية الإسلامية)، التي سادت في الشرق الأوسط على مدى فترة طويلة جدًا، ومثلها في فلسطين الفلسطينيون.
كان ذلك الالتقاء المكثف والأعمق بين الثقافتين، لكنه للأسف الشديد أخذ منحى العداء الشديد ووضع البشرية في هذا الزمن أمام مشاكل صعبة للغاية. فقد وجّه المتورطون، فعليًا أو عاطفيًا، في النزاعات التي نشأت، معظم طاقاتهم نحو أعمال عدائية، وتهم متبادلة وبذل جهود للدفاع عن النفس أمام كل هذه الأعمال.
بعد 70 سنة من المواجهات العنيفة في إطار النزاع الإسرائيلي- الفلسطيني (1920-1991)، هذا النزاع الذي يقف في مركز المشاكل في الشرق الأوسط، جرّبت الأطراف، وما زالت، 20 سنة من المفاوضات بالتوازي مع استمرار العنف. وكل ما أنجزته هذه المفاوضات المتواصلة هو ازدياد العنف والمعاناة لدى الطرفين. وفي ضوء هذا الواقع، فمن جهة، كل من يؤمن بمواصلة السير في الاتجاه الذي تم تحديده للمفاوضات- حل الدولتين، يجب أن يجيب عن السؤال، كم من الضحايا، المعاناة واللاجئين الإضافيين يحتاج كي يفهم أن هذا الاتجاه ينبغي التخلي عنه. ومن الجهة الأخرى، كل من لا يؤمن بهذا الاتجاه، فإنه مطالب باقتراح حل بديل يتيح للأطراف مستقبلا أفضل.
الطريق الوحيد للوصول إلى حل النزاع الإسرائيلي الفلسطيني، الحل الذي يمكّن من توجيه كل الطاقات والموارد المستثمرة اليوم في النزاع باتجاه الترميم/ التأهيل، التطوير والازدهار هو الارتقاء إلى الأعالي التي تمكّن من رؤية النزاع بمنظور جيد لتاريخ فلسطين الطويل. فقط بهذا المنظور يمكن رؤية الجذور الحقيقية للنزاع، وفقط استنادّا إلى هذه الجذور الحقيقية يمكن بناء حل خلاق، عادل ودائم للنزاع في الأراضي المقدسة. كما أنه، من خلال هذه النظرة العقلانية يمكن خلق أرضية مشتركة لصالح ثقافة يهودية- مسيحية- إسلامية والتي بمقدورها أن تخطو بالبشرية كلها نحو ازدهار غير مسبوق.
الحل البديل – الارتباط:
بما أن فكرة الدولة ثنائية القومية، المطروحة كبديل لحل الدولتين، قد أثبتت نفسها كمشكلة عويصة في أماكن أخرى، فإن الحل المنشود مستحدث ومفاجىء للغاية بل يبدو لأول وهلة أمرًا خياليًا لا مثيل له- وهو ارتباط أطراف النزاع كشعب واحد. هذه الفكرة المفاجئة التي تبدو ساذجة وعديمة أي احتمال، تستند إلى سلسلة أبحاث تتعلق بهوية الفلسطينيين غربي نهر الأردن كما سيفصل لاحقا.
التدهور الكبير الذي دهورت فيه القيادة الفلسطينية وضع الجماهير الفلسطينية، بما في ذلك وضع الكثيرين من مؤيديها المخلصين جدًا، إلى جانب المستوى الكبير من الفساد الذي انكشف لدى هذه القيادة، وذلك على خلفية ثورة الجماهير في البلدان العربية ضد قياداتها، في حين أن إسرائيل تعتبر واحة الحرية، النجاح والاستقرار، كل هذه تخلق أرضية خصبة لدى الجماهير الفلسطينية لتطبيق الحل. ولكن كل هذا لا يكفي لإتاحة الحل المقترح، وبالطبع لدى الطرف اليهودي.
هنا تدخل إلى الصورة الأبحاث المذكورة أعلاه. البحث الأنثروبولوجي الشامل، الأبحاث الوراثية المختلفة، البحث التاريخي- الديمغرافي والبحث التاريخي- الجغرافي، التي نشرت جميعها ابتداء من سنة 2000 وهي مفصلة في كتاب لا يرفع أخ على أخ سيفا كما نشر ملخصها في كتيّب الارتباط. وكل هذه تعزز البحث الأصلي لدافيد بن غوريون ويتسحاق بن تسفي (الرئيس الثاني لدولة إسرائيل) وغيرهما، من خلال إشارتهما بشكل واضح إلى حقيقة مفاجئة للغاية:
أغلبية كبيرة ومتراصة للغاية (80%-90%) من بين الفلسطينيين الذين يعيشون اليوم غربي نهر الأردن (بمن فيهم عرب إسرائيل)، هم نسل شعب إسرائيل الذين أكره آباؤهم على تغيير دينهم وبالأساس على اعتناق الإسلام.
عندما يتضح أن أطراف النزاع هم أخوة بالدم وهم على الأغلب لا يعون ذلك، فإن استمرار النزاع اليوم ما هو إلا حماقة غير مجدية وظلم غير مبرر، والسبب الوحيد لوجوده هو الجهل القائم بما يتعلق بموضوع هوية الفلسطينيين. صحيح أن هناك فوارق ثقافية ودينية بين الأطراف، ولكن هذه نتيجة إكراه من قبل غرباء، وهذه موجودة أيضا لدى كل واحد من الأطراف بحد ذاته، بينما لب النزاع هو الموضوع القومي الذي يتضح أنه مغلوط. وفي ضوء نتائج الأبحاث يتضح أيضا السبب لعدم تحقيق أي نجاح حتى الآن، ولذلك لن يتحقق أي نجاح في المستقبل، لمحاولة حل مشكلة الشعبين في الوطن الواحد:
ومن خلال استخدام المنطق البسيط للغاية، يمكن أن نفهم، أنه من غير الممكن أن نحلّ في الواقع مشكلة غير موجودة في الواقع- لا يوجد في فلسطين شعبان ولذلك لا يمكن أن نحلّ فيها أي مشكلة تتعلق بشعبين يعيشان فيها لأول وهلة. فقط أولئك الذين سقطوا ضحية للجهل المذكور، فقط من لم يعملوا بما يكفي من أجل معرفة جذور النزاع، يستطيعون أن يحاولوا، في خيالهم فقط، حلّ المشكلة (خلافا للنزاع) غير القائمة بتاتا. (للأسف الشديد، يقف لجانبهم أولئك القلائل ذوي التأثير الذين يعرفون الجذور المذكورة، ولكن يبنون أنفسهم ومكانتهم وقوتهم على وجود النزاع، ولكن هم معنيون باستمرارية المحاولة الفاشلة لحل المشكلة غير القائمة، وبذلك يحاولون تخليد الجرح الدامي في قلب فلسطين).
كل ما ذكر أعلاه يؤدي إلى نتيجة واحدة واضحة:
المخرج المطلوب من الطريق المسدود الذي وصلت إليه المنطقة يتمثل في عودة أغلبية الفلسطينيين إلى شعب إسرائيل- عملية تثير التحدي ومتواصلة لارتباط سلام بين الفلسطينيين واليهود في فلسطين الغربية وتكوين دولة واحدة لقومية واحدة- شعب إسرائيل، دون أي إكراه ديني (كما هو مفصل في نشرة الارتباط التي ستجدون لها رابطا لاحقا).
واضح أن الكراهية المتراكمة لدى كثيرين وخيّرين من الطرفين تجاه الطرف الآخر محتدمة عميقا جدًا. ولكل طرف منهما أسبابه المبررة، رغم أنها جميعا نابعة من الخطأ الذي يكمن في لب النزاع وأضراره. ونتيجة لذلك، يحتاج جزء منهم وقتا طويلا نسبيا لكي يستوعبوا الحقيقة الجيدة ونتيجتها كما ذكر أعلاه، بينما توجد لدى الآخرين تخوفات كبيرة ومفهومة من هذه النتيجة. في الواقع شعب إسرائيل الذي في معظم جزئه غير المتزمت دينيا جرب بنجاح عملية دمج يهود المهاجر، وبمقدوره الروحاني وتجربته التغلب على المعوقات المتوقعة، فقط إذا كان واعيا لها ويستعد لها كما ينبغي.
ولكن بهذا لا ينتهي التغيير المطلوب في الشرق الأوسط. الفترة الحالية المضطربة في العالم العربي، حتى عندما تهدأ الأوضاع بهذا المستوى أو ذاك، ليس بمقدورها حلّ مشاكل العالم العربي. المشاكل هناك أعمق بكثير من مجرد تغيير الحاكم أو طريقة الحكم، بل من المحتمل أن تفاقم الوضع. الاستخدام الهام بحدّ ذاته للفيس بوك، ليس بمقدوره أن يضمن بأن يكون العالم العربي المعاصر قادرًا على التخلي عن مساهمته السلبية لنفسه وللإنسانية على طريقة الكراهية، التدمير والإرهاب التي تتم بذريعة الرغبة في إعادة مجد الخلافة الإسلامية. فاستخدام الفيس بوك لا يكفي من أجل وقف السلبية المذكورة وتمكين العالم العربي من المساهمة بشكل إيجابي وبناء في تطوّر الإنسانية، كما ساهمت فعلا الخلافة الإسلامية في بداية طريقها، بل تألقت آنذاك بمفردها في هذه المساهمة. إن إزالة النزاع اليهودي- الفلسطيني من جدول الأعمال وإخماد نيران الكراهية تجاه إسرائيل، سيمكن شعب إسرائيل الموحد من العودة إلى القيام بدوره التاريخي كشعب مختار والتعاون مع بقية شعوب المنطقة من أجل دفع الشرق الأوسط كله إلى مستقبل ينشده معظم سكانه.
http://the-engagement.org/?page_id=19
Kamal900
05-26-2015, 07:03 AM
http://the-engagement.org/?page_id=19
Can you translate this in English? I'm not very good at reading standard Arabic :\
Why you think that the Muslim ones originated from Egypt or whatever? While its a known fact that the Muslims in the Levant do have admixture from these places, but at the same time they are largely indigenous to the area. The Ashkenazi Jews are genetically 50 percent European admixed, and they're aren't purely Levantine as well. Besides, I'm genetically Levantine btw:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?171281-My-GEDmatch-results
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?171264-My-family-tree-DNA-autosomal-results
My kind call themselves in such a term in order to have our own country to live in. If Israel wasn't based on ultra-Zionist Jewish nationalism where discrimination against non-Jews is encouraged by the state and religious leaders, and if the nation was built on the co-operation and effort from Jews and non-Jews together then i would consider calling myself an Israeli.
No, it is a known fact that they were immigrants. "Palestine" has become desolated many times in History, including in most of the Ottoman rule (even though they tried to settle people from the Muslim world themselves), Until Muhammad Ali (or his son) raid that resulted in a settlements of sum 50K-100K Egyptian Arabs and some Turkemans (Late 19th century). The British mandate resulted in massive immigration waves of workers from the Arab world seeking for economic opportunities, that's how Arabic speaking communities could grow 12 and 17 fold (for example, in one month in 1933 around 30K Syrian Arabs have crossed the borders, "Huranim").
Or like Churchill described it -
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry
could lift up the Jewish population."
Overall The Muslim Arabic Speakers have ancestral origins in many areas, they are not a defined local group like Samaritans,Christian Arabs, Arameans, etc. Some could be Levantine mixed, Some also immigrated from places which had Levantine types in the first place - around El Sham Region (Syria for example),I've seen Levantines in Egypt too.
The strongest element is definitely the Arabid/Egyptiad, but they are still diverse in comparison to the population of Egypt, Arabia and such (at the "desolation" times many of the Muslims were not Arabs).
*No so much related to this specific discussion, but regarding what you have posted - I do not consider Anatolia as a part of the Levant. I take the reduced definition, the land locked between Syria (Including parts of it of course), Western Jordan, and the Negev dessert. That's were the pure Levantines resided, Speaking Cannatine/Phoenician languages, Aramean languages, Ancient Hebrew etc. Anatolia has nothing to do with the Levant (just to clarify, not stating how much Levantine you are, it's irrelevant).
Edit: Ok, I see you weren't implying that, discard that paragraph.
*Ashkenazis have a weak connection to the land genetically, but you should know that the founders were nothing more than European colonialists. They wanted to create a new secular European country, there was no place for Orthodox Jews, Poor refugee Jews from Europe etc. That's what all of them said, Hertzel (disconnected himself completely from any Jewish identity, did not circumcised his son, wanted at one time to convert all Austrian Jews to Christianity), Zabotinsky, David Ben Gurion.
After the holocaust it just got out of hand, they couldn't prevent from Jews flooding the state, than Jews from Arabic countries, while at the same time Arabs have come to realize that the land will not be under Muslim rule after 1300 years. We can discuss this elsewhere if you want.
*You really sound like a person who never visited Israel or an Arab nationalist who speaks for a foreign media. The Arabs I know love living here and wouldn't replace it for anything in the world (would never give up their Israeli IDs). For the rest living outside, it's just an outcome for yet another "National identity" created, and young minds driven towards hatred and pugnacity in the name of a false justice.
Anglojew
05-26-2015, 02:42 PM
Can you translate this in English? I'm not very good at reading standard Arabic :\
In the 20th Century western culture (Judeo-Christian) – represented by Jews who had been refugees for close to two thousand years and returned to their homeland, and Middle Eastern culture (Arab-Muslim) that had ruled the Middle East for an extended period – represented by Palestinians, came face-to-face. This was a very deep and intensive encounter between the two cultures, which unfortunately has taken a very violent path that today presents serious perils to humanity as a whole. Most of the energies of those involved emotionally or practically in the conflict, are invested in hostile clashes, mutual recriminations, self protection and self justifications.
After about 70 years of violence in the course of the Israeli-Palestinian national conflict (1920-1991), a conflict that sits at the heart of the problems facing the Middle East, the two sides have experienced about 20 years of negotiations, parallel to ongoing violence. The only thing that this extended period of negotiations has achieved is an intensification of the violence and the suffering of both sides. In light of this reality, all those who believe in continuing with the direction set forth by negotiations – a Two-State Solution, must answer the question – How many additional casualties, what higher level of suffering and how many new refugees are necessary, in order to understand that this path should be abandoned? On the other hand, those who are objecting to the above solution need to suggest an alternative that will provide the sides with a better future.
The only way to arrive at a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a solution that will make it possible to channel all the energy and resources invested today in the conflict and re-direct them towards rehabilitation, development and prosperity, is to get high enough above the conflicting narratives, to view the conflict in a better perspective that is afforded by examining the long-term history of the Holy Land. Only from this perspective can one see the real roots of the conflict. Only on the basis of the genuine roots of conflict, can one build a creative, just and lasting peace in the Holy Land. Moreover, from such a better-informed perspective, it is possible to create common ground for a Jewish-Christian-Moslem Culture that can move humankind forward towards unprecedented prosperity.
The Alternative solution – The Engagement:
As the idea of a bi-national state, that is suggested as the alternative for the two-state solution, proved itself as problematic in other places, the remaining solution is a very surprising one that initially may appear as a fantasy – the engagement of the parties to the conflict to a single nation. This amazing idea, that is presumably very naive and chance-less, is supported by a series of studies about the identity of the Palestinians as detailed further on.
The sharp deterioration that the Palestinian leadership brought upon the Palestinian public, including the situation of many of its most dedicated people, combined with the high level of corruption that is attributed to this leadership and with the phenomena of the Arab spring, all contrasted by the background of Israel being a regional island of freedom, prosperity and stability, prepare the ground for the Palestinian public to the realization of the proposed solution. However, these are insufficient enabler for the proposed solution, definitely for the Jewish side.
Here is where the said series of studies get into the picture. A very large anthropological study, various genetic studies, a demographic-historical research and a historical-geographical one were published in the 21st century and are detialed in the book "Brother shall not Lift Sword Against Brother" as well as in brief in The Engagement booklet. All these studies reinforce an earlier work of David Ben-Gurion (the first prime minister of Israel) and others, in their very surprising finding:
a solid majority of the Palestinians (80%-90%) are descendants of People of Israel who remained in the country following the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple. The ancestors of most of the Palestinians were forced to convert, mainly to Islam.
When it becomes clear that the parties to the conflict are really blood-brothers, that usually are not aware of this situation, it makes self-evident that the continuation of the conflict is a hopeless stupidity and is an outrageous unjust, that the only reason for its existence is the ignorance about the real identity of the Palestinians. All the above lead to one clear conclusion:
To break the deadlock in the Holy Land, a just and lasting solution is required – by the return of the majority of the Palestinians to the people of Israel – an extremely challenging process of an engagement of peace between the Palestinians and the Jews west of the Jordan River. This process will form a one state for one people – The People of Israel, without forcing any religious conversion (as detailed in The Engagement Pamphlet which is referred to later on).
The above will not, however, complete the required change in the Middle East. The stormy present in the Arab world, even after it will settle down to some extent, is incapable of solving the problems existing there. These problems are much deeper than a change of regime or a change of a ruler, which may even worsen the situation. The important use of Facebook will not guaranty, by itself alone, that the contemporary Arab world will desert its negative contribution to humanity on the path to terror, destruction, violence and threat to world freedom, done in the pretense of the will to renew the glory of the Muslim Caliphate. The use of Facebook will not enable, by itself, the Arab world to bring a positive contribution to humanity, like the Muslim Caliphate brought in the period of its glory following its beginning, a contribution that shined above the rest of humanity. The removal of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict form the regional and world agenda, followed by shutting down the flames of hatred against Israel, will enable the united people of Israel to resume its historical role as a light to the nations, and collaborate with the rest of the nations of the region in moving the Middle East to the future they aspire to. In particular, in the current situation created in Iran as a result of the sanctions, its leadership will look for any respectable ladder it may use, to get down from the high tree of nuclear weapon they climbed upon. A respectable and just solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, based on a concept used in Iran, where a Muslim must not be Arab, can provide the Iranian leadership, the required excuse.
http://the-engagement.org/?page_id=16
Pan-Israelism.
Sikeliot
05-26-2015, 03:40 PM
Palestinians are not "pure Levantine" but neither are Lebanese, Syrians (both of whom are genetically identical to Palestinians), and especially not most Israeli Jews. Ashkenazis are genetically similar to southern Italians and Sicilians -- a mixture of Levantine and Southern European. The closest thing nowadays to "native" to the land that is now Israel, is Palestinians.
Kamal900
05-26-2015, 03:43 PM
No, it is a known fact that they were immigrants. "Palestine" has become desolated many times in History, including in most of the Ottoman rule (even though they tried to settle people from the Muslim world themselves), Until Muhammad Ali (or his son) raid that resulted in a settlements of sum 50K-100K Egyptian Arabs and some Turkemans (Late 19th century). The British mandate resulted in massive immigration waves of workers from the Arab world seeking for economic opportunities, that's how Arabic speaking communities could grow 12 and 17 fold (for example, in one month in 1933 around 30K Syrian Arabs have crossed the borders, "Huranim").
Or like Churchill described it -
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry
could lift up the Jewish population."
Overall The Muslim Arabic Speakers have ancestral origins in many areas, they are not a defined local group like Samaritans,Christian Arabs, Arameans, etc. Some could be Levantine mixed, Some also immigrated from places which had Levantine types in the first place - around El Sham Region (Syria for example),I've seen Levantines in Egypt too.
The strongest element is definitely the Arabid/Egyptiad, but they are still diverse in comparison to the population of Egypt, Arabia and such (at the "desolation" times many of the Muslims were not Arabs).
*No so much related to this specific discussion, but regarding what you have posted - I do not consider Anatolia as a part of the Levant. I take the reduced definition, the land locked between Syria (Including parts of it of course), Western Jordan, and the Negev dessert. That's were the pure Levantines resided, Speaking Cannatine/Phoenician languages, Aramean languages, Ancient Hebrew etc. Anatolia has nothing to do with the Levant (just to clarify, not stating how much Levantine you are, it's irrelevant).
Edit: Ok, I see you weren't implying that, discard that paragraph.
*Ashkenazis have a weak connection to the land genetically, but you should know that the founders were nothing more than European colonialists. They wanted to create a new secular European country, there was no place for Orthodox Jews, Poor refugee Jews from Europe etc. That's what all of them said, Hertzel (disconnected himself completely from any Jewish identity, did not circumcised his son, wanted at one time to convert all Austrian Jews to Christianity), Zabotinsky, David Ben Gurion.
After the holocaust it just got out of hand, they couldn't prevent from Jews flooding the state, than Jews from Arabic countries, while at the same time Arabs have come to realize that the land will not be under Muslim rule after 1300 years. We can discuss this elsewhere if you want.
*You really sound like a person who never visited Israel or an Arab nationalist who speaks for a foreign media. The Arabs I know love living here and wouldn't replace it for anything in the world (would never give up their Israeli IDs). For the rest living outside, it's just an outcome for yet another "National identity" created, and young minds driven towards hatred and pugnacity in the name of a false justice.
You need to provide with genetic and archeological evidence than posting your typical Zionist rhetoric here. I showed you my genetic results and you refused to acknowledge it. Christians are little more purer but that's about it, and the Ashkenazi Jews cluster mostly with the Southern Italians and with the Maltese than to any Levantine populations due to their great European genetic admixture. Neither the Ashkenazi nor the modern day Levantines represent Canaanite culture or whatever False justice and hatred? The same can be applied in modern Israel where Jewish racism and hatred towards non-Jews is at its finest since the state and the religious leaders there like Ovedia Yussef encourages Jewish supremacist and hatred. I cluster mostly with other Levantines, and i didnt came from somewhere.
Here are my genetic findings:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?156094-Genome-Wide-Diversity-in-the-Levant-Reveals-Recent-Structuring-by-Culture
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?143430-Genetic-Differentiation-and-Origin-of-the-Jordanian-Population-An-Analysis-of-Alu-Insertion-Polymor
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?155802-Early-Back-to-Africa-Migration-into-the-Horn-of-Africa
You don't wish to believe all of this because it would make the ideals of Zionism and Jewish supremacy look bad, and if a group of Neo-Nazis and other WN groups were telling Jews to get out of their lands then its a problem for you, but for as long as Jews are the ones who are doing the persecution and killing then its fine in your book. Another rule for the Jews and another for the hated goyim.
Oh, and btw, your so called hero, Winston Churchill, also made an article about Jewry's role in the formation of communism as well:
http://www.davidduke.com/images/churchill.png
Of course, you dont believe in what he says because he is something negative about Jews.
Turkminator
05-26-2015, 03:48 PM
The father is obviously not an ethnic Palestinian. Probably an assimilated immigrant. The elites in Palestine were mostly British, Turkish and French.
Palestinians are not "pure Levantine" but neither are Lebanese, Syrians (both of whom are genetically identical to Palestinians), and especially not most Israeli Jews. Ashkenazis are genetically similar to southern Italians and Sicilians -- a mixture of Levantine and Southern European. The closest thing nowadays to "native" to the land that is now Israel, is Palestinians.
:picard1:
You fail to understand that what you refer as "Palestinians" were not long ago - Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs, Bosniaks etc. During the British Mandate the Ashkenazi Immigrants were the "Palestinians".
The Gazans are almost exclusively Egyptian, Negev Bedouins mostly immigrants from Transjordan and Arabia. How about the leftovers of Ibrahim Pasha army? 50K Egyptians and Turks - are they native? Mordechai Keder could name the 6-7 Arabian Tribes that make up most of the origin of the West Bank Arabic speakers.
"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included." - Walid Shoebat
The ones who are probably the closest to the natives are rather the Christian Arabs/Arameans, Druze, Samartians, NA Jews.
Sikeliot
05-26-2015, 04:08 PM
:picard1:
You fail to understand that what you refer as "Palestinians" were not long ago - Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs, Bosniaks etc. During the British Mandate the Ashkenazi Immigrants were the "Palestinians".
The Gazans are almost exclusively Egyptian, Negev Bedouins mostly immigrants from Transjordan and Arabia. How about the leftovers of Ibrahim Pasha army? 50K Egyptians and Turks - are they native? Mordechai Keder could name the 6-7 Arabian Tribes that make up most of the origin of the West Bank Arabic speakers.
"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included." - Walid Shoebat
The ones who are probably the closest to the natives are rather the Christian Arabs/Arameans, Druze, Samartians, NA Jews.
This isn't true. Palestinian Arabs from Gaza might have Egyptian admixture, but most Palestinians whether Muslim or Christian are similar genetically to Lebanese, Assyrians, Samaritans and other Levantine and Mesopotamian groups.
Kamal900
05-26-2015, 04:26 PM
:picard1:
You fail to understand that what you refer as "Palestinians" were not long ago - Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs, Bosniaks etc. During the British Mandate the Ashkenazi Immigrants were the "Palestinians".
The Gazans are almost exclusively Egyptian, Negev Bedouins mostly immigrants from Transjordan and Arabia. How about the leftovers of Ibrahim Pasha army? 50K Egyptians and Turks - are they native? Mordechai Keder could name the 6-7 Arabian Tribes that make up most of the origin of the West Bank Arabic speakers.
"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included." - Walid Shoebat
The ones who are probably the closest to the natives are rather the Christian Arabs/Arameans, Druze, Samartians, NA Jews.
Yes, and a lot of these Egyptian immigrants to the Levant and few other places like Syria and Lebanon weren't that Numerous. Palestinians refered to themselves as such back in the 1910's:
"The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre–World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people. But after 1948—and even more so after 1967—for Palestinians themselves the term came to signify not only a place of origin but also, more importantly, a sense of a shared past and future in the form of a Palestinian state."
"Palestine". Encyclopædia Britannica. 2007. Retrieved 2007-08-29.
Again, have you ever heard of admixture before? My friend, Nabatea, can show you the genetic results about my people which most of the samples are from the city of Hebron, and they tend to cluster more closely with the Samaritans of Nablus, a city which most of the msulim inhabitants descend from, than to other peoples.
A 2013 study of Haber and et al. found that "The predominantly Muslim populations of Syrians, Palestinians and Jordanians cluster on branches with other Muslim populations as distant as Morocco and Yemen." The authors explained that "religious affiliation had a strong impact on the genomes of the Levantines. In particular, conversion of the region's populations to Islam appears to have introduced major rearrangements in populations' relations through admixture with culturally similar but geographically remote populations leading to genetic similarities between remarkably distant populations." The authors also reconstructed the genetic structure of pre-Islamic Levant and found that "it was more genetically similar to Europeans than to Middle Easterners."
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316
"No significant difference was obtained between North African populations. This genetic homogeneity among North Africans was provided inprevious studies showing that no significant genetic differences were found among them when samples representative of wide areas were considered, regardless of their current linguistic status (Bahriet al., 2008; El Monceret al., 2010). Besides, no significant difference was noted between the Jordanian population, that from UAE (p=0.341) and those from North Africa (p=0.604). This evident genetic closeness, well represented in the third PC plot (Fig. 4), suggests a common genetic background among populations from Arabia such as UAE, those from ancient Mesopotamia such as Jordan, and those from North Africa. In this way, we have tested the contribution of ‘‘Arabian’’ genes in the genetic background of the current Jordanian population, taking as parental populations the samples from UAE and Morocco, and considering information from 8 Alu loci. As expected from the genetic similarity between parental samples, only the Long and Chakraborty estimator gave a statistically consistent result: the genetic contribution of the Arabian sample in Jordan was 36.5% (95% CI: 0.193–0.780).
In conclusion, we note that the ancient people movements from Arabia to ancient Mesopotamia and North Africa pro-posed by many historians and supported by concordant and complementary results of different nuclear and mitochondrial DNA are also compatible with our results suggesting a common genetic background between populations from Arabia, from ancient Mesopotamia, and from North Africa. Besides, our results showed a highest degree of genetic homogeneity between the current Jordanian population and North Africans which is in accordance with an additional Neolithic gene flow from ancient Mesopotamia to North Africa. On the basis of all historic data, our results and other genetic data quoted above, it seems that ancestors of Jordanians represented a Semitic composition founded from early Semitic peoples such as the Semitic Amorites and Canaanites. This composition was probably influenced by civilizations possessing political sovereignty in Jordan during later periods. But the evident genetic closeness between current Jordanian population and that of the UAE from Arabia suggests that this influence, coming mainly from neighboring populations often having Semitic similar genetic profiles, was very likely insignificant."
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?143430-Genetic-Differentiation-and-Origin-of-the-Jordanian-Population-An-Analysis-of-Alu-Insertion-Polymor
"The story of Jewish origins, once the province of historians and religion scholars, is now being told by DNA, April 15, 2012
Adolf Hitler would not have been particularly proud of him, Harry Ostrer says, though he, like the architect of the Holocaust, has developed systematic ways to separate Jews from non-Jews.
The powerful genetic markers of Jewish ancestry that Ostrer has found don't imply racial inferiority, yet when the population geneticist first published his findings two years ago, one historian told Science magazine that "Hitler would certainly have been very pleased."
"That comment really bugged me," says Ostrer, a professor of genetics here at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, and a Jew himself. It came from Shlomo Sand, a professor at Tel Aviv University whose 2009 book, The Invention of the Jews (Verso Books), argued that Jews arose from converting many local communities in Europe and elsewhere. His argument is contradicted by Ostrer's work, which shows that geographically and culturally distant Jews still have more genes in common than they do with non-Jews around them, and that those genes can be traced back to the Levant, an area including modern-day Israel.
That reaction isn't the only misconstruction of this fraught topic, Ostrer says. The DNA that he found also tightly linked Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, two prominent culturally and geographically distinct groups; commenters immediately began to say this showed the groups were not separate at all. "And that wasn't what I was saying either," Ostrer says. Also, the deeply rooted Middle Eastern markers could be used to support Zionist territorial claims—except, Ostrer points out, the same markers can be found in Palestinians as well."
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Chosen-Genes/131481/
"But what do the genetic data reveal about the Samaritans’ origins? Luckily, there have been many genetic studies of the Samaritans, both to uncover their origins and to understand how they have survived so many generations of isolation. One such study by Peidong Shen and colleagues in the Journal Human Mutation has used both mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome DNA of modern-day Samaritans to discover their origins and genetic relationship to Near Eastern Jews. Their results are fascinating.
The mitochondrial DNA results, which show maternal history (i.e. your mother’s mother’s mother, etc.), reveal no major difference between the Samaritans, Jews, or Palestinians in the Levant who were also sampled. These three groups have relatively similar maternal genetic histories. However, the story of the Y-chromosome, which shows paternal history (i.e. your father’s father’s father) is quite different. Indeed, not only are the Y-chromosomes of the Jews and Samaritans more similar to each other than either is to the Palestinians’, the Y-chromosomes of the Samaritans show striking similarities to a very specific Y-chromosome most often associated with Jewish men."
Read more at http://blog.23andme.com/23andme-and-you/genetics-101/more-than-just-a-parable-the-genetic-history-of-the-samaritans/#7eAxYPJRCLiOx3GC.99
"The Levant is a crucial region in understanding human migrations between Africa and Eurasia. Although some mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) studies have been carried out in this region, they have not included the Jordan area. This paper deals with the mtDNA composition of two Jordan populations.
AIM:
The main objectives of this article are: first, to report mtDNA sequences of an urban and an isolate sample from Jordan and, second, to compare them with each other and with other nearby populations.
SUBJECTS AND METHODS:
The analyses are based on HVSI and HVSII mtDNA sequences and diagnostic RFLPs to unequivocally classify into haplogroups 101 Amman and 44 Dead Sea unrelated individuals from Jordan.
RESULTS:
Statistical analysis revealed that, whereas the sample from Amman did not significantly differ from their Levantine neighbours, the Dead Sea sample clearly behaved as a genetic outlier in the region. Its outstanding Eurasian haplogroup U3 frequency (39%) and its south-Saharan Africa lineages (19%) are the highest in the Middle East. On the contrary, the lack ((preHV)1) or comparatively low frequency (J and T) of Neolithic lineages is also striking. Although strong drift by geographic isolation could explain the anomalous mtDNA pool of the Dead Sea sample, the fact that its mtDNA lineage composition mirrors, in geographic origin and haplogroup frequencies, its Y-chromosome pool, points to founder effect as the main cause. Ancestral M1 lineages detected in Jordan that have affinities with those recently found in Northwest but not East Africa question the African origin of the M1 haplogroup.
CONCLUSION:
Results are in agreement with an old human settlement in the Jordan region. However, in spite of the attested migratory spreads, genetically divergent populations, such as that of the Dead Sea, still exist in the area."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18428014
My Jtest results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 37.86
2 MIDDLE_EASTERN 20.16
3 WEST_ASIAN 16.48
4 WEST_MED 9.35
5 ASHKENAZI 5.79
6 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.05
7 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 3.03
8 EAST_AFRICAN 2.40
Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 IQ @ 9.036242
2 Samaritan @ 10.631749
3 Mandean @ 12.283883
4 Assyrian @ 14.162012
5 Druze @ 16.881546
6 TR @ 20.019768
7 Armenian @ 20.325636
8 GR @ 20.854652
9 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 21.452969
10 Kurdish @ 22.171505
11 IR @ 23.337337
12 AJ @ 33.862679
13 Algerian @ 34.521378
14 Tuscan @ 34.832615
15 GE @ 39.569893
16 Moroccan @ 39.832100
17 North_Italian @ 40.269737
18 RO @ 40.605133
19 Bedouin @ 42.347263
20 Serbian @ 42.383530
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Mandean +50% Samaritan @ 6.080221
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% IQ +25% Samaritan +25% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.444737
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Algerian + Druze + Mandean + Mandean @ 3.097530
2 Algerian + Assyrian + Druze + Mandean @ 3.306703
3 IQ + Samaritan + Samaritan + TR @ 3.523220
4 IQ + Mandean + Samaritan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 3.805326
5 Algerian + Assyrian + Assyrian + Druze @ 4.076247
6 Mandean + Samaritan + Samaritan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.132244
7 GR + IQ + IQ + Samaritan @ 4.153470
8 GR + IQ + Mandean + Samaritan @ 4.191198
9 Druze + Mandean + Mandean + Moroccan @ 4.198832
10 Algerian + Assyrian + Druze + IQ @ 4.250764
11 Armenian + IQ + Samaritan + Samaritan @ 4.343150
12 Assyrian + IQ + Samaritan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.424001
13 IQ + IQ + Samaritan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.444737
14 Algerian + Druze + Kurdish + Samaritan @ 4.522501
15 Armenian + Bedouin + Druze + GR @ 4.560217
16 Algerian + Armenian + Druze + Mandean @ 4.646822
17 GR + Mandean + Samaritan + Samaritan @ 4.654131
18 Druze + IQ + IQ + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.663242
19 Algerian + Druze + IQ + Mandean @ 4.679577
20 GR + IQ + Samaritan + Samaritan @ 4.680312
"'While population transfers were effected in the Assyrian, Babylonian and Persian periods, most of the indigenous population remained in place. Moreover, after Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70 the population by and large remained in situ, and did so again after Bar Kochba's revolt in AD 135. When the vast majority of the population became Christian during the Byzantine period, no vast number were driven out, and similarly in the seventh century, when the vast majority became Muslim, few were driven from the land. Palestine has been multi-cultural and multi ethnic from the beginning, as one can read between the lines even in the biblical narrative. Many Palestinian Jews became Christians, and in turn Muslims. Ironically, many of the forebears of Palestinian Arab refugees may well have been Jewish.'"
'Michael Prior,Zionism and the State of Israel: A Moral Inquiry, Psychology Press 1999 p.201
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_%22Palestine%22
I have already showed you my genetic results and from other studies about the Levantines. I don't wish to derail this any further since i have final examination tomorrow, and i need to revise to prepare myself for tomorrow. I cluster very closely with other Levantines and even to people like the Chaldeans and the Assyrians. If you still dont wish to believe me then there's nothing i can do. Again, why do you oppose Neo-nazis in asking the Jews to be kicked out of Europe and other white countries while you support the same polices on other people if it was done by your kind? I'm done here, and i have an exam tomorrow. Good night.
Wadaad
05-26-2015, 04:30 PM
Nice Zionist historic revisionism...pretty soon they will say they were natives to the land and it was a myth that they ever lived in the ghettoes of Warsaw and Lithuania.
Sea of Galilee area was one of the highest density populations of the whole levant, on the level of Damascus...keep bulldozing arab villages, maybe your stories will become more believable :thumbsup:
This isn't true. Palestinian Arabs from Gaza might have Egyptian admixture, but most Palestinians whether Muslim or Christian are similar genetically to Lebanese, Assyrians, Samaritans and other Levantine and Mesopotamian groups.
It's possible because they immigrated from those areas (especially in the north). Leave the Christians aside (Most of them do not refer themselves as Palestinians, but rather Christian Arabs or Arameans), they are probably very old at the region.
Many immigrated from Syria, how they'd suppose to look? Those still have last names of places/areas in Syria - Tibi, Halabi. Just like the Egyptian immigrants have Egyptian names - El fyomi, El masri. The Zoabi is a famous Family/Hamuula from the Transjordan.
The immigration waves are well documented since British and Ottoman times.
Sikeliot
05-26-2015, 04:33 PM
It's possible because they immigrated from those areas (especially in the north). Leave the Christians aside (Most of them do not refer themselves as Palestinians, but rather Christian Arabs or Arameans), they are probably very old at the region.
Many immigrated from Syria, how they'd suppose to look? Those still have last names of places/areas in Syria - Tibi, Halabi. Just like the Egyptian immigrants have Egyptian names - El fyomi, El masri. The Zoabi is a famous Family/Hamuula from the Transjordan.
The immigration waves are well documented since British and Ottoman times.
Egyptians have a decent amount go Sub-Saharan African ancestry that is for the most part lacking in the Levant.. this should tell you that these Levantine Arabs are not Egyptians.
You need to provide with genetic and archeological evidence than posting your typical Zionist rhetoric here. I showed you my genetic results and you refused to acknowledge it. Christians are little more purer but that's about it, and the Ashkenazi Jews cluster mostly with the Southern Italians and with the Maltese than to any Levantine populations due to their great European genetic admixture. Neither the Ashkenazi nor the modern day Levantines represent Canaanite culture or whatever False justice and hatred? The same can be applied in modern Israel where Jewish racism and hatred towards non-Jews is at its finest since the state and the religious leaders there like Ovedia Yussef encourages Jewish supremacist and hatred. I cluster mostly with other Levantines, and i didnt came from somewhere.
Here are my genetic findings:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?156094-Genome-Wide-Diversity-in-the-Levant-Reveals-Recent-Structuring-by-Culture
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?143430-Genetic-Differentiation-and-Origin-of-the-Jordanian-Population-An-Analysis-of-Alu-Insertion-Polymor
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?155802-Early-Back-to-Africa-Migration-into-the-Horn-of-Africa
You don't wish to believe all of this because it would make the ideals of Zionism and Jewish supremacy look bad, and if a group of Neo-Nazis and other WN groups were telling Jews to get out of their lands then its a problem for you, but for as long as Jews are the ones who are doing the persecution and killing then its fine in your book. Another rule for the Jews and another for the hated goyim.
Oh, and btw, your so called hero, Winston Churchill, also made an article about Jewry's role in the formation of communism as well:
http://www.davidduke.com/images/churchill.png
Of course, you dont believe in what he says because he is something negative about Jews.
I am not a Zionist and do not care for them. I do not have any real Jewish identity either. You Genetic results are irrelevant, I didn't refuse it* Genetic studies could show this and that, but those immigration waves are known and documented.
And why would Churchill be my hero? Again this discussion regarding him and Zionist is irrelevant to the subject!
You are just attacking me as a Zionist (which I'm not), that won't make the facts I name go away.
Egyptians have a decent amount go Sub-Saharan African ancestry that is for the most part lacking in the Levant.. this should tell you that these Levantine Arabs are not Egyptians.
You should check out the residents of Gaza and Rahat, Many groups that you would call "Palestinian" have high SSA. There was even immigration from sudan.
Famous Arabic/"Palestinian" Nationalist -
http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer4/2014/09/02/5562799/701219058075408394no.jpg
"Palestinian" Bedouin - http://images.one.co.il/images/d/400_221/gg1075903.jpg
There are tribes around the Jordan Valley with noticeable high SSA too.
You clearly haven't met any "Palestinians", you should know that the ones published here are only of a certain look.
This isn't true. Palestinian Arabs from Gaza might have Egyptian admixture, but most Palestinians whether Muslim or Christian are similar genetically to Lebanese, Assyrians, Samaritans and other Levantine and Mesopotamian groups.
Tumb up, based on genetic tests Gazans have some closeness to Egyptians compared to other Palestinians, becuse there were some Egyptian migrants in Gaza (at least I read so). Bu they are still Palestinian.
btw, RonH,Bosniaks in Palestine? Interesting, don't know about it. Any info?
Gigi is beautiful, she looks NW European to me.
Yes, and a lot of these Egyptian immigrants to the Levant and few other places like Syria and Lebanon weren't that Numerous. Palestinians refered to themselves as such back in the 1910's:
"The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre–World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people. But after 1948—and even more so after 1967—for Palestinians themselves the term came to signify not only a place of origin but also, more importantly, a sense of a shared past and future in the form of a Palestinian state."
"Palestine". Encyclopædia Britannica. 2007. Retrieved 2007-08-29.
Again, have you ever heard of admixture before? My friend, Nabatea, can show you the genetic results about my people which most of the samples are from the city of Hebron, and they tend to cluster more closely with the Samaritans of Nablus, a city which most of the msulim inhabitants descend from, than to other peoples.
A 2013 study of Haber and et al. found that "The predominantly Muslim populations of Syrians, Palestinians and Jordanians cluster on branches with other Muslim populations as distant as Morocco and Yemen." The authors explained that "religious affiliation had a strong impact on the genomes of the Levantines. In particular, conversion of the region's populations to Islam appears to have introduced major rearrangements in populations' relations through admixture with culturally similar but geographically remote populations leading to genetic similarities between remarkably distant populations." The authors also reconstructed the genetic structure of pre-Islamic Levant and found that "it was more genetically similar to Europeans than to Middle Easterners."
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316
"No significant difference was obtained between North African populations. This genetic homogeneity among North Africans was provided inprevious studies showing that no significant genetic differences were found among them when samples representative of wide areas were considered, regardless of their current linguistic status (Bahriet al., 2008; El Monceret al., 2010). Besides, no significant difference was noted between the Jordanian population, that from UAE (p=0.341) and those from North Africa (p=0.604). This evident genetic closeness, well represented in the third PC plot (Fig. 4), suggests a common genetic background among populations from Arabia such as UAE, those from ancient Mesopotamia such as Jordan, and those from North Africa. In this way, we have tested the contribution of ‘‘Arabian’’ genes in the genetic background of the current Jordanian population, taking as parental populations the samples from UAE and Morocco, and considering information from 8 Alu loci. As expected from the genetic similarity between parental samples, only the Long and Chakraborty estimator gave a statistically consistent result: the genetic contribution of the Arabian sample in Jordan was 36.5% (95% CI: 0.193–0.780).
In conclusion, we note that the ancient people movements from Arabia to ancient Mesopotamia and North Africa pro-posed by many historians and supported by concordant and complementary results of different nuclear and mitochondrial DNA are also compatible with our results suggesting a common genetic background between populations from Arabia, from ancient Mesopotamia, and from North Africa. Besides, our results showed a highest degree of genetic homogeneity between the current Jordanian population and North Africans which is in accordance with an additional Neolithic gene flow from ancient Mesopotamia to North Africa. On the basis of all historic data, our results and other genetic data quoted above, it seems that ancestors of Jordanians represented a Semitic composition founded from early Semitic peoples such as the Semitic Amorites and Canaanites. This composition was probably influenced by civilizations possessing political sovereignty in Jordan during later periods. But the evident genetic closeness between current Jordanian population and that of the UAE from Arabia suggests that this influence, coming mainly from neighboring populations often having Semitic similar genetic profiles, was very likely insignificant."
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?143430-Genetic-Differentiation-and-Origin-of-the-Jordanian-Population-An-Analysis-of-Alu-Insertion-Polymor
"The story of Jewish origins, once the province of historians and religion scholars, is now being told by DNA, April 15, 2012
Adolf Hitler would not have been particularly proud of him, Harry Ostrer says, though he, like the architect of the Holocaust, has developed systematic ways to separate Jews from non-Jews.
The powerful genetic markers of Jewish ancestry that Ostrer has found don't imply racial inferiority, yet when the population geneticist first published his findings two years ago, one historian told Science magazine that "Hitler would certainly have been very pleased."
"That comment really bugged me," says Ostrer, a professor of genetics here at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, and a Jew himself. It came from Shlomo Sand, a professor at Tel Aviv University whose 2009 book, The Invention of the Jews (Verso Books), argued that Jews arose from converting many local communities in Europe and elsewhere. His argument is contradicted by Ostrer's work, which shows that geographically and culturally distant Jews still have more genes in common than they do with non-Jews around them, and that those genes can be traced back to the Levant, an area including modern-day Israel.
That reaction isn't the only misconstruction of this fraught topic, Ostrer says. The DNA that he found also tightly linked Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, two prominent culturally and geographically distinct groups; commenters immediately began to say this showed the groups were not separate at all. "And that wasn't what I was saying either," Ostrer says. Also, the deeply rooted Middle Eastern markers could be used to support Zionist territorial claims—except, Ostrer points out, the same markers can be found in Palestinians as well."
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Chosen-Genes/131481/
"But what do the genetic data reveal about the Samaritans’ origins? Luckily, there have been many genetic studies of the Samaritans, both to uncover their origins and to understand how they have survived so many generations of isolation. One such study by Peidong Shen and colleagues in the Journal Human Mutation has used both mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome DNA of modern-day Samaritans to discover their origins and genetic relationship to Near Eastern Jews. Their results are fascinating.
The mitochondrial DNA results, which show maternal history (i.e. your mother’s mother’s mother, etc.), reveal no major difference between the Samaritans, Jews, or Palestinians in the Levant who were also sampled. These three groups have relatively similar maternal genetic histories. However, the story of the Y-chromosome, which shows paternal history (i.e. your father’s father’s father) is quite different. Indeed, not only are the Y-chromosomes of the Jews and Samaritans more similar to each other than either is to the Palestinians’, the Y-chromosomes of the Samaritans show striking similarities to a very specific Y-chromosome most often associated with Jewish men."
Read more at http://blog.23andme.com/23andme-and-you/genetics-101/more-than-just-a-parable-the-genetic-history-of-the-samaritans/#7eAxYPJRCLiOx3GC.99
"The Levant is a crucial region in understanding human migrations between Africa and Eurasia. Although some mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) studies have been carried out in this region, they have not included the Jordan area. This paper deals with the mtDNA composition of two Jordan populations.
AIM:
The main objectives of this article are: first, to report mtDNA sequences of an urban and an isolate sample from Jordan and, second, to compare them with each other and with other nearby populations.
SUBJECTS AND METHODS:
The analyses are based on HVSI and HVSII mtDNA sequences and diagnostic RFLPs to unequivocally classify into haplogroups 101 Amman and 44 Dead Sea unrelated individuals from Jordan.
RESULTS:
Statistical analysis revealed that, whereas the sample from Amman did not significantly differ from their Levantine neighbours, the Dead Sea sample clearly behaved as a genetic outlier in the region. Its outstanding Eurasian haplogroup U3 frequency (39%) and its south-Saharan Africa lineages (19%) are the highest in the Middle East. On the contrary, the lack ((preHV)1) or comparatively low frequency (J and T) of Neolithic lineages is also striking. Although strong drift by geographic isolation could explain the anomalous mtDNA pool of the Dead Sea sample, the fact that its mtDNA lineage composition mirrors, in geographic origin and haplogroup frequencies, its Y-chromosome pool, points to founder effect as the main cause. Ancestral M1 lineages detected in Jordan that have affinities with those recently found in Northwest but not East Africa question the African origin of the M1 haplogroup.
CONCLUSION:
Results are in agreement with an old human settlement in the Jordan region. However, in spite of the attested migratory spreads, genetically divergent populations, such as that of the Dead Sea, still exist in the area."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18428014
My Jtest results:
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 37.86
2 MIDDLE_EASTERN 20.16
3 WEST_ASIAN 16.48
4 WEST_MED 9.35
5 ASHKENAZI 5.79
6 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.05
7 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 3.03
8 EAST_AFRICAN 2.40
Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 IQ @ 9.036242
2 Samaritan @ 10.631749
3 Mandean @ 12.283883
4 Assyrian @ 14.162012
5 Druze @ 16.881546
6 TR @ 20.019768
7 Armenian @ 20.325636
8 GR @ 20.854652
9 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 21.452969
10 Kurdish @ 22.171505
11 IR @ 23.337337
12 AJ @ 33.862679
13 Algerian @ 34.521378
14 Tuscan @ 34.832615
15 GE @ 39.569893
16 Moroccan @ 39.832100
17 North_Italian @ 40.269737
18 RO @ 40.605133
19 Bedouin @ 42.347263
20 Serbian @ 42.383530
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Mandean +50% Samaritan @ 6.080221
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% IQ +25% Samaritan +25% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.444737
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Algerian + Druze + Mandean + Mandean @ 3.097530
2 Algerian + Assyrian + Druze + Mandean @ 3.306703
3 IQ + Samaritan + Samaritan + TR @ 3.523220
4 IQ + Mandean + Samaritan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 3.805326
5 Algerian + Assyrian + Assyrian + Druze @ 4.076247
6 Mandean + Samaritan + Samaritan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.132244
7 GR + IQ + IQ + Samaritan @ 4.153470
8 GR + IQ + Mandean + Samaritan @ 4.191198
9 Druze + Mandean + Mandean + Moroccan @ 4.198832
10 Algerian + Assyrian + Druze + IQ @ 4.250764
11 Armenian + IQ + Samaritan + Samaritan @ 4.343150
12 Assyrian + IQ + Samaritan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.424001
13 IQ + IQ + Samaritan + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.444737
14 Algerian + Druze + Kurdish + Samaritan @ 4.522501
15 Armenian + Bedouin + Druze + GR @ 4.560217
16 Algerian + Armenian + Druze + Mandean @ 4.646822
17 GR + Mandean + Samaritan + Samaritan @ 4.654131
18 Druze + IQ + IQ + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.663242
19 Algerian + Druze + IQ + Mandean @ 4.679577
20 GR + IQ + Samaritan + Samaritan @ 4.680312
"'While population transfers were effected in the Assyrian, Babylonian and Persian periods, most of the indigenous population remained in place. Moreover, after Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70 the population by and large remained in situ, and did so again after Bar Kochba's revolt in AD 135. When the vast majority of the population became Christian during the Byzantine period, no vast number were driven out, and similarly in the seventh century, when the vast majority became Muslim, few were driven from the land. Palestine has been multi-cultural and multi ethnic from the beginning, as one can read between the lines even in the biblical narrative. Many Palestinian Jews became Christians, and in turn Muslims. Ironically, many of the forebears of Palestinian Arab refugees may well have been Jewish.'"
'Michael Prior,Zionism and the State of Israel: A Moral Inquiry, Psychology Press 1999 p.201
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_%22Palestine%22
I have already showed you my genetic results and from other studies about the Levantines. I don't wish to derail this any further since i have final examination tomorrow, and i need to revise to prepare myself for tomorrow. I cluster very closely with other Levantines and even to people like the Chaldeans and the Assyrians. If you still dont wish to believe me then there's nothing i can do. Again, why do you oppose Neo-nazis in asking the Jews to be kicked out of Europe and other white countries while you support the same polices on other people if it was done by your kind? I'm done here, and i have an exam tomorrow. Good night.
Where did you take this discussion? It feels like you are really answering someone else, your whole post is irrelevant. What's with you clustering with Levantines and Assyrians (btw you know where they came from right? naturally Iraqis and Arabs Cluster with them also) has to do with it? And the connection between Levantines, Arabians and North Africans? OMG. We are discussing recent history here.
Jewish claims to the land? Did I mention it other than calling Ashkenazis "European Colonialists"?! You are not with me.
Your last paragraph... I oppose Neo Nazis... What? Listen, I do not represents Jews, Zionist or Ashkenazis. Please stay on the subject. Return After your test and go through the comments again, carefully, pleaese.
Sikeliot
05-26-2015, 05:01 PM
Jewish claims to the land? Did I mention it other than calling Ashkenazis "European Colonialists"?! You are not with me. .
They are. They've lived in Europe for thousands of years and are genetically similar to SE Europeans. They are not Levantines.
Almost all comments are silly and irrelevant. Looks like only Sikeliot is actually reading and referring my comments. The rest are Zionist/Hasbara/Jewish Butthearts, calling me a Zionist LOL :p
Casandrinos
05-26-2015, 05:06 PM
asiatic alpine mostly
Sikeliot
05-26-2015, 05:06 PM
If Ashkenazis can have right of return to Israel, Sicilians and Maltese should be given right to move to Lebanon because of our Phoenician ancestry. We are as genetically Levantine as Ashkenazis are... and the economy in Sicily is not great right now either, probably worse than Lebanon :lol:
They are. They've lived in Europe for thousands of years and are genetically similar to SE Europeans. They are not Levantines.
Exactly. That was my claim on the first post. I've always claimed that Ashkenazis are more European than anything else (you can check my comments in other thread).
Casandrinos
05-26-2015, 05:09 PM
If Ashkenazis can have right of return to Israel, Sicilians and Maltese should be given right to move to Lebanon because of our Phoenician ancestry. We are as genetically Levantine as Ashkenazis are... and the economy in Sicily is not great right now either, probably worse than Lebanon :lol:
23andme results can change the socioeconomic map of the world
Sikeliot
05-26-2015, 05:09 PM
Exactly. That was my claim on the first post. I've always claimed that Ashkenazis are more European than anything else (you can check my comments in other thread).
So you should agree with me that they have no place in Israel taking Levantine peoples' land.
Tumb up, based on genetic tests Gazans have some closeness to Egyptians compared to other Palestinians, becuse there were some Egyptian migrants in Gaza (at least I read so). Bu they are still Palestinian.
btw, RonH,Bosniaks in Palestine? Interesting, don't know about it. Any info?
Gigi is beautiful, she looks NW European to me.
Gaza had a few Jews, Christians and Muslims 120 years ago. The Gaza you know today was created due to immigration, mainly Egypt and Sinai.
The ottomans wanted to settle communities from the empire to the desolated land in order to achieve some advancements, They brought Circasisans, Algerians and Bosnians. The Bosnian offsprings are diluted in Arabic and Druze communities, sometimes with the surname Boshnak.
Gaza had a few Jews, Christians and Muslims 120 years ago. The Gaza you know today was created due to immigration, mainly Egypt and Sinai.
The ottomans wanted to settle communities from the empire to the desolated land in order to achieve some advancements, They brought Circasisans, Algerians and Bosnians. The Bosnian offsprings are diluted in Arabic and Druze communities, sometimes with the surname Boshnak.
Thanks for information.
So you should agree with me that they have no place in Israel taking Levantine peoples' land.
Genetically, yeah, most Ashkenazis connection to the land is quite weak. The founding fathers really wanted to make a new European Bavaria and only used they're so called
"Jewish Identity" for colonial reasons. But unlike the USA for example, there were immigration of people who do have a strong genetical and cultural connection to the land (NA Jews for example).
But that's a different discussion involving opinions.
Some Palestinian Surnames pointing on their origins -
"Masri" = from Egypt-Hamas member of Parliament, Mushir al-Masri (the word "masri" littelery means "the egyptian" in arabic !).
"Khamis"= Bahrain "Salem Hanna Khamis" "al-Faruqi"= Mosul, Iraq
"al-Araj" = Morocco, a member of the Saadi Dynasty "Hussein al-Araj"
"al Lubnani" = the Lebanese
"al-Mughrabi" = the Moroccan (Maghreb" – meaning "West" in Arabic, and usually referring to North Africa or specifically to Morocco)
"al-Djazair" = the Algerian
"al-Yamani" = the Yemeni "Issam Al Yamani"
"al-Afghani" = the Afghan
"al-Hindi" = the Indian "Amin al-Hindi"
"Iraqi" = from Iraq.
"halabi" = from Aleppo, Syria
"El Baghdadi" = from Baghdad Iraq.
"Tarabulsi"= Tarabulus-Tripoli, Lebanon.
"Hourani" = Houran Syria.
"al-Husayni" = Saudi Arabia.
"Saudi" = Saudi Arabia.
"Metzarwah"= Egypt.
"Barda---wil" = "Salah Bardawil" HAMAS legislator in Gaza; Egypt, Bardawil Lake area.
"Nashashibi" = Syria.
"Bushnak" = Bosnia
"zoabi"= from Iraq: "Haneen Zoabi".
"Turki" = Turkey "Daud Turki"
"al-Kurd" = Kurdistan.
"Haddadins" = YEMEN descended from Ghassanid Christian Arabs.
"Arab Abu-Kishk" = Egypt.(Bedouins)
"Arab al shakirat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al zabidat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al aramsha" = Egypt (Bedouins)
There are many more, just ask if you are interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU
Walid Shoebat -
“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included."
There are more quotes and data by request.
Leave your emotions aside, and stay with the facts, historic facts. Today modern "Palestinians" are mostly a mixture of many immigrants just like the Jews.
The land was desolated just 150 years ago. Even in this British documentary, and after 2 Jewish immigrations alongside many immigrations from the Arab world, the land is still described as "empty" at the start (probably describing the early 1920's)
notice the first few seconds*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyu7jFnj9Nw
Anglojew
05-26-2015, 11:43 PM
No population is identical to 2,000 years ago and no region hasn't had immigration. Obviously Palestinians mixed with their neighbours just like almost every other group in the world did (that didn't practice endogamy for religious reasons). Ashkenazis mixed with Europeans and Palestinians mixed with Arabians, Kurds and others. This does not alter the fact that, generally, both groups have much common ancestry and both descend in large part from Israelite populations.
Anglojew
05-26-2015, 11:45 PM
Some Palestinian Surnames pointing on their origins -
"Masri" = from Egypt-Hamas member of Parliament, Mushir al-Masri (the word "masri" littelery means "the egyptian" in arabic !).
"Khamis"= Bahrain "Salem Hanna Khamis" "al-Faruqi"= Mosul, Iraq
"al-Araj" = Morocco, a member of the Saadi Dynasty "Hussein al-Araj"
"al Lubnani" = the Lebanese
"al-Mughrabi" = the Moroccan (Maghreb" – meaning "West" in Arabic, and usually referring to North Africa or specifically to Morocco)
"al-Djazair" = the Algerian
"al-Yamani" = the Yemeni "Issam Al Yamani"
"al-Afghani" = the Afghan
"al-Hindi" = the Indian "Amin al-Hindi"
"Iraqi" = from Iraq.
"halabi" = from Aleppo, Syria
"El Baghdadi" = from Baghdad Iraq.
"Tarabulsi"= Tarabulus-Tripoli, Lebanon.
"Hourani" = Houran Syria.
"al-Husayni" = Saudi Arabia.
"Saudi" = Saudi Arabia.
"Metzarwah"= Egypt.
"Barda---wil" = "Salah Bardawil" HAMAS legislator in Gaza; Egypt, Bardawil Lake area.
"Nashashibi" = Syria.
"Bushnak" = Bosnia
"zoabi"= from Iraq: "Haneen Zoabi".
"Turki" = Turkey "Daud Turki"
"al-Kurd" = Kurdistan.
"Haddadins" = YEMEN descended from Ghassanid Christian Arabs.
"Arab Abu-Kishk" = Egypt.(Bedouins)
"Arab al shakirat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al zabidat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al aramsha" = Egypt (Bedouins)
There are many more, just ask if you are interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU
Walid Shoebat -
“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included."
There are more quotes and data by request.
Leave your emotions aside, and stay with the facts, historic facts. Today modern "Palestinians" are mostly a mixture of many immigrants just like the Jews.
The land was desolated just 150 years ago. Even in this British documentary, and after 2 Jewish immigrations alongside many immigrations from the Arab world, the land is still described as "empty" at the start (probably describing the early 1920's)
notice the first few seconds*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyu7jFnj9Nw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSCL9sYoL-s
Alessio
05-27-2015, 12:12 AM
She definitely looks predominantly Dutch
If Ashkenazis can have right of return to Israel, Sicilians and Maltese should be given right to move to Lebanon because of our Phoenician ancestry. We are as genetically Levantine as Ashkenazis are... and the economy in Sicily is not great right now either, probably worse than Lebanon :lol:
Sicily GDP (2011) 91.310 billion U.S. dollars (source: Eurostat, current market prices Last update: 03-03-2014)
Sicily GDP per capita (2011) 18.054 U.S. dollars (source: Eurostat, current market prices)
http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=nama_r_e2gdp&lang=en
Lebanon GDP (2011) 40.006 billion U.S. dollars (source: IMF, current prices)
Lebanon GDP per capita (2011) 10.106 U.S. dollars (source: IMF, current prices)
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2008&ey=2015&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&pr1.x=57&pr1.y=15&c=446&s=NGDP_R%2CNGDP_RPCH%2CNGDP%2CNGDPD%2CNGDP_D%2CNGD PRPC%2CNGDPPC%2CNGDPDPC%2CPPPGDP%2CPPPPC%2CPPPSH%2 CPPPEX%2CPCPI%2CPCPIPCH%2CPCPIE%2CPCPIEPCH%2CLP%2C BCA%2CBCA_NGDPD&grp=0&a=
Longbowman
05-28-2015, 02:05 PM
If Ashkenazis can have right of return to Israel, Sicilians and Maltese should be given right to move to Lebanon because of our Phoenician ancestry. We are as genetically Levantine as Ashkenazis are... and the economy in Sicily is not great right now either, probably worse than Lebanon :lol:
Every part of this was absurd.
masria
05-28-2015, 09:37 PM
Her father is extremely light for Palestinian.
If I didn't know that, I'd say she's Dutch. She looks a lot like Gemma Ward.
Lol extremely light.. OMG have you ever gone to Palestine?...... You would be surprise.
Seth MacFarlane
05-28-2015, 09:46 PM
Lol extremely light.. OMG have you ever gone to Palestine?...... You would be surprise.
I think he means that your average Palestinian isn't like this. There's obviously some like this (he looks sorta jew and that isn't uncommen ) but I know many palis in nyc and none look like this.
Itarildë
05-28-2015, 09:58 PM
She looks like a mix of Gemma Ward and Candice Swanepoel. Sub-nordid with borreby.
Ivan Kramskoï
05-28-2015, 10:36 PM
She has something foreign in her ( i don't know what it is) but she is nonethheless white and has also something extremly attractive.
Seth MacFarlane
05-28-2015, 10:57 PM
Obviously Judean
I agree he looks jewish in this picture and not wasp http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/25/article-2567676-1BD5618A00000578-770_634x654.jpg . That's why I asked before if he was Muslim beause him and some Palestinian Christians resemble ashkenazi Jews and Sicilians although I've seen Muslims with this look too and he's an example. This pali Muslim bares resemblence to http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2921941/palestine-aside-2.jpg John turturro and his brothe Ralph . Palestinain Christian Edward Said looks like Carlo Gambino both look stereotypical jew . Gigi is like a sub nordid with alpine med influences
Anglojew
05-29-2015, 12:15 AM
I agree he looks jewish in this picture and not wasp http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/25/article-2567676-1BD5618A00000578-770_634x654.jpg . That's why I asked before if he was Muslim beause him and some Palestinian Christians resemble ashkenazi Jews and Sicilians although I've seen Muslims with this look too and he's an example. This pali Muslim bares resemblence to http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2921941/palestine-aside-2.jpg John turturro and his brothe Ralph . Palestinain Christian Edward Said looks like Carlo Gambino both look stereotypical jew . Gigi is like a sub nordid with alpine med influences
The most Jewish-looking Palestinian is Rashid Khalidi:
http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/archive/2008/11/1_123125_2073765_2180614_2203618_081103_fw_khalidi tn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Wadaad
05-29-2015, 12:25 AM
If Ashkenazis can have right of return to Israel, Sicilians and Maltese should be given right to move to Lebanon because of our Phoenician ancestry. We are as genetically Levantine as Ashkenazis are... and the economy in Sicily is not great right now either, probably worse than Lebanon :lol:
the notorious sikeliotization in action...
Seth MacFarlane
05-29-2015, 12:47 AM
The most Jewish-looking Palestinian is Rashid Khalidi:
http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/archive/2008/11/1_123125_2073765_2180614_2203618_081103_fw_khalidi tn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
Yupp :) he has an ancient look . Sicilian Carlo Gambino is overly jewish looking too there's a big possibility of him having judean DNa somewhere down the line too http://www.freeinfosociety.com/media/images/917.jpg it's uncanny
Sikeliot
05-29-2015, 12:57 AM
Every part of this was absurd.
It's true though that Jews are not genetically more (or really, less) Levantine than Sicilians. Given that they are genetically the same. Also I do not think Ashkenazis should have right of return to Israel at all, so if you thought I was suggesting Sicilians should be allowed to go to Lebanon, I was saying the opposite. If you're all too stupid to be able to see that was what I was saying, then go back to school and take basic English reading comprehension.
Longbowman
05-29-2015, 01:05 AM
It's true though that Jews are not genetically more (or really, less) Levantine than Sicilians. Given that they are genetically the same.
Alright, let me break your post down for you.
If Ashkenazis can have right of return to Israel,
'Ashkenazis' aren't, 'Jews' are. Ashkenazis happen to be Jews. Less Judaean groups like the Bnei Avraham and Beta Israel groups are afforded the same privileges, plus converts. Originally, in 1948, there was a stronger 'blood of my blood' feel, but this was before DNA testing, at a time when 90% of Jewish ethnicities genuinely believed they were 95%+ Judaean. And yet! Subbotniks were also encouraged to immigrate. If ethnic Zionism had been born in 2015 things might have been different. Regardless Judaean blood is not the qualifier.
Sicilians and Maltese should be given right to move to Lebanon because of our Phoenician ancestry.
Which is unproven. According to recent data Sicilians are 35-40% 'recent Neolithic' which doesn't mean '3000 years ago and onwards,' but rather '3000 BC and onwards.' I suspect there is a small degree of Phonoecian ancestry in Sicilians, but not a large amount. 'Recent Neolithic' is also stronk in southern Italy, Greece, the Balkans, and parts of Spain. But let's say you were 40% Phonoecian - and? Should English people have the right to return to Denmark?
We
You're not Sicilian.
are as genetically Levantine as Ashkenazis are...
No, you're almost as recent Neolithic. I doubt that 40% is all Levantine, probably mostly Anatolian or NA.
and the economy in Sicily is not great right now either,
It's OK, no worse than it was 20 years ago. It's stably stagnant.
probably worse than Lebanon
Lebanon is in the midst of an undeclared civil war, dear, and no, is not a major economic powerhouse.
Sikeliot
05-29-2015, 01:07 AM
'Ashkenazis' aren't, 'Jews' are. Ashkenazis happen to be Jews. Less Judaean groups like the Bnei Avraham and Beta Israel groups are afforded the same privileges, plus converts.
I don't support Israel's right to exist as a "Jewish only state" so I don't think any of them belong in Israel. You wanted my opinion, there it is. Just as Sicilians don't have a right to move to Lebanon.
Anyway, Sicilians are genetically closer to Jews than to Spanish or Balkan people, and closer to Jews than to most Greeks. So? No one needs to be moving anywhere. If you interpreted my comment as anything other than my dissatisfaction with the "right of return" laws of Israel, I don't know what to say.
Longbowman
05-29-2015, 01:08 AM
I don't support Israel's right to exist as a "Jewish only state" so I don't think any of them belong in Israel. You wanted my opinion, there it is. Just as Sicilians don't have a right to move to Lebanon.
Anyway, Sicilians are genetically closer to Jews than to Spanish or Balkan people, and closer to Jews than to most Greeks. So? No one needs to be moving anywhere. If you interpreted my comment as anything other than my dissatisfaction with the "right of return" laws of Israel, I don't know what to say.
No, they have similar admixture. It's like saying 'a half-Nigerian half Englishman is more related to a half French half Senegalese than he is to a Nigerian or an Englishman.' No, he just plots similarly. ADMIXTURE isn't ancestry. I am not an ethnic Zionist myself, just pointing out the holes in your post.
Sikeliot
05-29-2015, 01:10 AM
No, they have similar admixture. It's like saying 'a half-Nigerian half Englishman is more related to a half French half Senegalese than he is to a Nigerian or an Englishman.' No, he just plots similarly. ADMIXTURE isn't ancestry. I am not an ethnic Zionist myself, just pointing out the holes in your post.
Let me make this abundantly clear.
SICILIANS DO NOT BELONG IN LEBANON.
ASHKENAZIS DO NOT BELONG IN ISRAEL.
Both are Neolithic European/West Asian Mediterranean people and they do not belong in the Levant. I do not support the right of return. Sicilian ancestry is shared with southern Italians and Greeks, not really anyone else.
Does this make sense?
Wadaad
05-29-2015, 01:19 AM
no such thing as ethnic zionism.
Herzl wasnt an anthrotard. He had a socio-political movement in mind, he didnt give a fuk about genetics (jew mamma is all that is needed)
Longbowman
05-29-2015, 01:21 AM
Let me make this abundantly clear.
SICILIANS DO NOT BELONG IN LEBANON.
ASHKENAZIS DO NOT BELONG IN ISRAEL.
Both are Neolithic European/West Asian Mediterranean people and they do not belong in the Levant. I do not support the right of return. Sicilian ancestry is shared with southern Italians and Greeks, not really anyone else.
Does this make sense?
It would have done before a conglomerate of united ethnicities including Ashkenazis made Israel their own a few generations back.
Sikeliot
05-29-2015, 01:22 AM
It would have done before a conglomerate of united ethnicities including Ashkenazis made Israel there own a few generations back.
Ok let me make a more accurate comparison. If Ashkenazis can move to Israel, southern Italians should be given right of return to Greece. Especially Griko speakers and people with recent Greek ancestry, both of which exist.
I would more likely support that than right of return to Israel, but of course I wouldn't encourage it either.
Longbowman
05-29-2015, 01:23 AM
Ok let me make a more accurate comparison. If Ashkenazis can move to Israel, southern Italians should be given right of return to Greece. Especially Griko speakers and people with recent Greek ancestry, both of which exist.
I would more likely support that than right of return to Israel, but of course I wouldn't encourage it either.
Greece does allow foreign Greeks to return, I think. The other Italians - no. Israel doesn't offer people with distant Jewish ancestry or even entire converted communities (several tribes acknowledge Jewish descent) to return.
Sikeliot
05-29-2015, 01:40 AM
Greece does allow foreign Greeks to return, I think. The other Italians - no. Israel doesn't offer people with distant Jewish ancestry or even entire converted communities (several tribes acknowledge Jewish descent) to return.
I think anyone from Sicily, Calabria, Apulia, Lucania or Campania could have a case in returning to Greece, but Greece doesn't need that right now. The only difference between Griko people and other Calabrese/Apulians is language. And they have more Greek ancestry than Pontians.
Lol extremely light.. OMG have you ever gone to Palestine?...... You would be surprise.
Agree , but maybe he is talking about his features rather than skin tone
masria
06-05-2015, 01:15 AM
I don't support Israel's right to exist as a "Jewish only state" so I don't think any of them belong in Israel. You wanted my opinion, there it is. Just as Sicilians don't have a right to move to Lebanon.
Anyway, Sicilians are genetically closer to Jews than to Spanish or Balkan people, and closer to Jews than to most Greeks. So? No one needs to be moving anywhere. If you interpreted my comment as anything other than my dissatisfaction with the "right of return" laws of Israel, I don't know what to say.
OMG you forget things which are primordial, Sicilians don't return to Greece maybe because they were not persecuted.. You forget history fact= In middle east or in europe, jews were not welcomed to stay there!
masria
06-05-2015, 01:16 AM
Agree , but maybe he is talking about his features rather than skin tone
Thank you they seems to think that they look like Gulf people.. A lot of Palestinian are light. I am not shocked when I see him.
Journeyman26
06-05-2015, 01:16 AM
Holy smokes she is hot
Beit El
06-05-2015, 01:23 AM
If her mother is Dutch why does her mother have the surname 'Foster'? That's not a Dutch surname.
Sikeliot
06-05-2015, 01:24 AM
If her mother is Dutch why does her mother have the surname 'Foster'? That's not a Dutch surname.
Scottish, isn't it?
Beit El
06-05-2015, 01:27 AM
Scottish, isn't it?
I have no idea, it sounds British to me yes.
Seth MacFarlane
06-05-2015, 02:03 AM
Thank you they seems to think that they look like Gulf people.. A lot of Palestinian are light. I am not shocked when I see him.
he looks sorta jewish like other palestinians. the skin color isnt even factor in my opinion. he does look wierd though but i believe hes pali. palestinian john sununu looks ashkenazi http://radio.foxnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/sununu.jpg
YelaWolf
07-12-2015, 04:36 PM
what does ssa stand for
Pausanias
07-12-2015, 05:18 PM
her father is white palestinian.
YelaWolf
07-12-2015, 08:13 PM
her father is white palestinian.
WHAT MEAN SSA
Bagot
07-13-2015, 09:13 AM
If her mother is Dutch why does her mother have the surname 'Foster'? That's not a Dutch surname.
Her surname is Van den Herik, Foster is her ex-husband's surname.
RebelsSoul
07-14-2015, 08:55 PM
She does not look Arabic to me, neither does her father. I wonder if her dad is European-arab mix, maybe hes only 25% 50% arab. I hav gyys that are german-italian or irish-italian that look like her dad. Regardless its obvious she inherited a Nordic which her mother has, it simply a myth that dark dominates light in the gene pool . I have friend whos mother is black, Egyptian, and American Indian, his father black, Irish, and Italian. He ad blondish red hair fair skin and freckles with African features. inherited his Irish grandfathers red-blonde hair and freckles.
Peter Nirsch
07-14-2015, 09:23 PM
fortunally she doesn't look Palestinian.
Seth MacFarlane
07-16-2015, 03:58 AM
fortunally she doesn't look Palestinian.
whats wrong with looking palestinian ?
Peter Nirsch
07-16-2015, 04:01 AM
whats wrong with looking palestinian ?
A lot wrong.
Seth MacFarlane
07-16-2015, 04:04 AM
A lot wrong.
how so ? i bet you havent met alot of palestinian people in real life but besides that , there are atractive palestinian people
Peter Nirsch
07-16-2015, 05:26 AM
how so ? i bet you havent met alot of palestinian people in real life but besides that , there are atractive palestinian people
Are you a Palestinian?
Seth MacFarlane
07-16-2015, 05:39 AM
Are you a Palestinian?
lol no , i know many though . my semetic brethren lol
amoora
11-21-2017, 07:33 PM
A lot wrong.
fym Palestinians are hot
Congolese Rice
04-22-2018, 09:30 AM
lol. they all look dutch as fuck, i don't even see the Arabic in them :P I would even guess myself more Arab than they are if you want a comparison. This is just my opinion dou
Zroota
04-22-2018, 11:11 AM
Subnordid + Alpine
Xacal
04-22-2018, 11:29 AM
Subnordid
Put on her black hair and brown/black eyes and she will look very Medic. Lips, eye feature, nose etc. is already Med.
In total light Med with CM.
AK-47
04-22-2018, 12:09 PM
Her half dutch side is strongly expressed in her phenotype.
Not sure what is in her "Palestinian" woodpile, as they're a fictitious and invented people created by Islamo-Nazis after the 1967 war; and consist of mainly Arabs and converted Jews, or an admix of both.
Under the British mandate both Jews and Arabs called themselves Palestinians.:)
Kamal900
04-23-2018, 07:36 PM
Her half dutch side is strongly expressed in her phenotype.
Not sure what is in her "Palestinian" woodpile, as they're a fictitious and invented people created by Islamo-Nazis after the 1967 war; and consist of mainly Arabs and converted Jews, or an admix of both.
Under the British mandate both Jews and Arabs called themselves Palestinians.:)
Oy Vey. The first mention when the people of Palestine called themselves as such was at the end of the 19th century which was later adopted by most Arabs that were living in the Southern Levant during the height of Arab nationalism after the end of WW1 and the response against Zionist ideology.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Khalil_Beidas_1898_use_of_the_word_Palestinians_in _the_preface_to_his_translation_of_Akim_Olesnitsky %27s_A_Description_of_the_Holy_Land.png/800px-Khalil_Beidas_1898_use_of_the_word_Palestinians_in _the_preface_to_his_translation_of_Akim_Olesnitsky %27s_A_Description_of_the_Holy_Land.png
Again, we consider ourselves as Arabs of Palestine during the time of the Ummuyad empire and beyond until the rise of nationalism in the early modern period, and we have been in the land for many centuries. We also have genetic evidence confirming it as well. As for Jews, in terms of genetics, the Ashkenazi Jews aren't more legit than us since they're genetically half Europeans and all that. 7abiby, history is written by the victors, and what the Nazis had supposedly had done is nothing to what the Jewish Bolsheviks did to the Slavs and other Christians of Eastern and Central Europe, so your kind have a lot of blood on their hands as well.
Yes, we had Jews who called themselves as Palestinians the same way that you have Indians who are Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and belonging to other ethnic groups like Punjabi, Sindhi and so on call themselves as such. Ethno-national identity is not the same as ethno-religious or ethno-linguistic ones.
Gangrel
04-23-2018, 07:39 PM
Her half dutch side is strongly expressed in her phenotype.
Not sure what is in her "Palestinian" woodpile, as they're a fictitious and invented people created by Islamo-Nazis after the 1967 war; and consist of mainly Arabs and converted Jews, or an admix of both.
Under the British mandate both Jews and Arabs called themselves Palestinians.:)
These kikes love rambling their mouths. Palestinians definitely belong more to that region than you half European rape offsprings
Corded
04-23-2018, 07:44 PM
Subnordid
Kamal900
04-23-2018, 07:45 PM
These kikes love rambling their mouths. Palestinians definitely belong more to that region than you half European rape offsprings
I love how he boasts that Jews are Whites and all that, and yet, he indirectly admits that Jews aren't Whites or Europeans by identifying with a group of people who back in the day were "brown" and Semites which totally contradicts his statements. To be White is to have direct ancestral roots in Europe for thousands of years. I mean, if Jews are Whites then gypsies should be Whites as well since they had lived in Europe for over 1000 years. Btw, Jews of all subgroups can intermarry with one another without any problems but a Jew caught dating/marrying a gentile is taboo in Israel. You should see the fiasco when Benjamin Netanyahu's son was dating a White gentile Norwegian woman.
AK-47
04-23-2018, 07:49 PM
These kikes love rambling their mouths. Palestinians definitely belong more to that region than you half European rape offsprings
Big talk online chump...
Gangrel
04-23-2018, 07:49 PM
Big talk online chump...
So are you white or levantine? Make up your mind
AK-47
04-23-2018, 07:51 PM
So are you white or levantine? Make up your mind
Mixture of both, retard.
Learn basic population genetics.
Kamal900
04-23-2018, 07:54 PM
Mixture of both, retard.
Learn basic population genetics.
Genetics in itself doesn't have a factor in your identity, and an Ashkenazi Jew can intermarry with a Mizrahi Jew, who is genetically nearly 100% middle eastern, without any trouble in Israel which destroys the notion that Jews are "Whites" or Europeans who have genetic link to Europe like most White Americans. You can't identify as both middle eastern and European at the same time. Longbowman doesn't consider himself to be White either since he strongly identify himself as a Jew, that's it.
Gangrel
04-23-2018, 07:54 PM
Mixture of both, retard.
Learn basic population genetics.
Swear on the Torah?????
Smeagol
04-23-2018, 08:04 PM
Her pure Palestinian father is obviously white as well.
AK-47
04-23-2018, 08:14 PM
Swear on the Torah?????
Whatever bro.
You call me a kike in the real-world, and I will gouge your eyes out and force feed them to you.
Blocked for being a punk and keyboard warrior.
Fuck you, fuck Turkey.
BTW what the fuck are you?
A Turkish piece of shit, or a Kurd?
Want to be both?
Good luck with that...
Alevism...LOLOLOLOLO.:picard2:
Fucking satanic retard...
StonyArabia
04-23-2018, 08:18 PM
Palestinians have always existed and they have far more better claim to the area than most Jews that's a fact. Actually who said Palestinians are fictious or mythical people. Palestinians have always existed in the region, contrary to Zionist myths and stories. Palestinians always had unique dialect of Arabic, that is Levantine, their own traditional dress, and their own culture in the region. They did not pop out of nowhere. Palestinians also are not mish mash of various Arab speakers like the Zionist asserts, their genetics are quite native to the region.
Gangrel
04-23-2018, 08:32 PM
Whatever bro.
You call me a kike in the real-world, and I will gouge your eyes out and force feed them to you.
Blocked for being a punk and keyboard warrior.
Fuck you, fuck Turkey.
BTW what they fuck are you?
A Turkish piece of shit, or a Kurd?
Want to be both?
Good luck with that...
Alevism...LOLOLOLOLO.:picard2:
Fucking satanic retard...
Hamlet you basement goblin, your trolling is getting boring.
Bobby Martnen
04-23-2018, 08:33 PM
Hamlet you basement goblin, your trolling is getting boring.
AK-47 isn't Hamlet, retard, they've both taken DNA tests and they got different results.
Also, https://vocaroo.com/i/s0eHfMvFLb06
Gangrel
04-23-2018, 08:35 PM
AK-47 isn't Hamlet, retard, they've both taken DNA tests and they got different results.
Also, https://vocaroo.com/i/s0eHfMvFLb06
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1rpWwnZ86Hq
chociprasa
06-19-2020, 05:05 PM
Doesn't really look Subnordid to me, even if people on here think that any boneless neotenous-looking light-featured person on here is a Subnordid/Alpinid. The Dutch side is probably Faelid, the Palestinian side looks to be depigmented Assyroid. In her sister the Assyroid side is more apparent.
Her mother:
https://img1.nickiswift.com/img/gallery/the-ugly-truth-of-yolanda-and-david-fosters-divorce/intro-1563900503.jpg
Immanenz
06-19-2020, 10:55 PM
Doesn't really look Subnordid to me, even if people on here think that any boneless neotenous-looking light-featured person on here is a Subnordid/Alpinid. The Dutch side is probably Faelid, the Palestinian side looks to be depigmented Assyroid. In her sister the Assyroid side is more apparent.
while i agree with you that she aint Subnordid, his father aint a full Assyroid, he is heavily alpinized himself. Fares Fares seems to be a good Assyroid example- perhabs a Med pint.
She is depigmented South Alpine for the most part and she resembles her father more.
rajputprincess
01-22-2023, 06:13 AM
She have daughter with half pakistani half english singer zayn malik
Ekjee
09-16-2024, 07:52 AM
I am sorry for her...took all the bad genes and looks so boring. Bella and her brother are way more striking and interesting to look at
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