Estonia shows euro is not doomed project

[Äike]

Full article: Estonia shows euro is not doomed project (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/03715cf2-5ec0-11df-af86-00144feab49a.html)


From the shores of the Baltic, the current conflagration of the eurozone look benign when set against a past of Soviet occupation and Stalinist oppression. But historical context is not all: Estonia’s unflinching intention to join the euro next year, which received a nod from Brussels this week, offers a useful perspective on the euro’s future.

In economic policy, Estonia is the anti-Greece. It is a paragon of fiscal virtue. Its public debt, at 7.2 per cent of gross domestic product, is the lowest of any European Union state. Its budget was in the black before the crisis, and the deficit has stayed below the 3 per cent Maastricht ceiling. It is planned to be 2.2 per cent of GDP this year.

[Groenewolf]

Estonia will learn soon enough that it does not pay to be the good kid in the EU-school.

[Breedingvariety]

Every fiat currency is a doomed project.

[The Ripper]

Estonia will learn soon enough that it does not pay to be the good kid in the EU-school.

Not necessarily. We still haven't learned. May be there is something to those "slow" -jokes. :rolleyes:

[Wulfhere]

We should never have let these poxy Eastern European "countries" join the EU. Makes me even more determined to get out of it than ever.

[Äike]

We should never have let these poxy Eastern European "countries" join the EU. Makes me even more determined to get out of it than ever.

1. Estonia isn't an Eastern European country
2. Estonia has the lowest percentage of debt in the entire EU.
3. Estonia, together with only 4 other EU countries(Luxembourg, Sweden, Denmark and Finland), meets all the requirements of the Maastricht criteria. While the majority of EU countries are in large debts. The Nordic economic model is superior, when looking at these stats.

Conclusion: If all the EU countries would be like Estonia, then the EU would be the most successful economical region in the world.

For instance Estonia ranks 2nd, together with Denmark, in the European Economic Sustainability Index (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225957&postcount=1), while the UK is 9th. Sweden is 1st. In comparison, the southern neighbour of Estonia, Latvia, is at the bottom of the list. That's why I say that looking at the Baltic countries as "identical areas with different names", is just dumb.

[Wulfhere]

1. Estonia isn't an Eastern European country
2. Estonia has the lowest percentage of debt in the entire EU.
3. Estonia, together with only 4 other EU countries(Luxembourg, Sweden, Denmark and Finland), meets all the requirements of the Maastricht criteria. While the majority of EU countries are in large debts. The Nordic economic model is superior, when looking at these stats.

Conclusion: If all the EU countries would be like Estonia, then the EU would be the most successful economical region in the world.

For instance Estonia ranks 2nd, together with Denmark, in the European Economic Sustainability Index (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225957&postcount=1), while the UK is 9th. Sweden is 1st. In comparison, the southern neighbour of Estonia, Latvia, is at the bottom of the list. That's why I say that looking at the Baltic countries as "identical areas with different names", is just dumb.

Estonia is in Eastern Europe. And why are you so keen to join such a massive pile of shit as the EU?

[Äike]

Estonia is in Eastern Europe. And why are you so keen to join such a massive pile of shit as the EU?

I live more north then a Scott living in Kirkwall... Estonia is as much in Eastern Europe as Finland.

Joining the euro was part of the deal when joining the EU in 2004. We have to join the Eurozone sooner or later.

[Wulfhere]

I live more north then a Scott living in Kirkwall... Estonia is as much in Eastern Europe as Finland.

Joining the euro was part of the deal when joining the EU in 2004. We have to join the Eurozone sooner or later.

So what? Scotland is in Western Europe, and Estonia is in Eastern Europe. Neither is in Northern Europe.

So why did you join the EU then? To get all our Western European money?

[poiuytrewq0987]

So what? Scotland is in Western Europe, and Estonia is in Eastern Europe. Neither is in Northern Europe.

So why did you join the EU then? To get all our Western European money?

Geez, I didn't know it was still 1991.

[Äike]

So what? Scotland is in Western Europe, and Estonia is in Eastern Europe. Neither is in Northern Europe.

Estonia is classified as a Northern European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Europe) country. I bet you think that I speak some Slavic language and I also belong to the Orthodox church. Even you can't be that dumb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Europe


So why did you join the EU then? To get all our Western European money?

A small country has to belong to some political organization. We had to pick between the EU or Russia. Look at Ukraine and Belarus, they picked Russia and they're quite messed up now.

[Wulfhere]

Estonia is classified as a Northern European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Europe) country. I bet you think that I speak some Slavic language and I also belong to the Orthodox church. Even you can't be that dumb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Europe



A small country has to belong to some political organization. We had to pick between the EU or Russia. Look at Ukraine and Belarus, they picked Russia and they're quite messed up now.

That's correct, I'm not that dumb. But I notice your Wikipedia definition also classes the British Isles as Northern European, which is utter rot. We are Western - Atlantic fringe - and this has defined our history just as much as you being Eastern has defined yours.

[Äike]

That's correct, I'm not that dumb. But I notice your Wikipedia definition also classes the British Isles as Northern European, which is utter rot. We are Western - Atlantic fringe - and this has defined our history just as much as you being Eastern has defined yours.

Estonia has historically belonged to the "Western" sphere(Central- and Northern European) of European culture. Thus my point that I'm Orthodox, nor do I speak a Slavic language.

This is the historical ancient border between the West and the East.
http://www.klint.envir.ee/klint/Pildid/650/61-narva.jpg

On the Western side a fortress built by the Danes and on the Eastern side a fortress built by the Russians.

[esaima]

To get all our Western European money?
Western Europe is richer than ex-soviet Europe.
Why?
Because you have had no soviets.
And why you have had no soviets?Because of there was a barrier between Russia and West: we, the ex-soviets: Estonia, Latvia etc, etc.
Perhaps you should say thank you to us?;)

[Bridie]

Estonia has historically belonged to the "Western" sphere(Central- and Northern European) of European culture.:D

Crikey... the ever-expanding West sees no bounds.... a couple more decades and Japan will be considered "West" also. :cool:

[Äike]

:D

Crikey... the ever-expanding West sees no bounds.... a couple more decades and Japan will be considered "West" also. :cool:

Ever-expanding West? Estonia has been Western for the past 700 years. I already posted a pic of the historic border between the Western sphere and the Eastern sphere.

[Wulfhere]

Western Europe is richer than ex-soviet Europe.
Why?
Because you have had no soviets.
And why you have had no soviets?Because of there was a barrier between Russia and West: we, the ex-soviets: Estonia, Latvia etc, etc.
Perhaps you should say thank you to us?;)

Are you saying that you prevented Russia from expanding any further westwards? Lol. What about Poland and East Germany, then?

[Bridie]

Ever-expanding West? Estonia has been Western for the past 700 years. I already posted a pic of the historic border between the Western sphere and the Eastern sphere.
Whoever considers Estonia to be "Western" has a very loose definition of Western Europe...

How anyone could think that Estonia has enough in common with Atlantic nations to be thrown in the same basket is beyond me.

[Äike]

Are you saying that you prevented Russia from expanding any further westwards? Lol. What about Poland and East Germany, then?

Well, the Estonian Waffen-SS did hold the Soviets still at the Narva front for a long period of time. If the inferior Waffen-SS legions in the south wouldn't have been defeated, then Hitler wouldn't have had to pull out the troops from the Baltic area.

If the local Waffen-SS legions and the Germans wouldn't have fiercely resisted the Soviets, then the USSR could have reached Norway and France. The USSR actually had plans to launch an attack at the UK from Norway, but they never made it that far.

To sum it up, yes we prevented the USSR expanding further westwards.

[Äike]

Whoever considers Estonia to be "Western" has a very loose definition of Western Europe...

How anyone could think that Estonia has enough in common with Atlantic nations to be thrown in the same basket is beyond me.

The Holy Roman Empire has always been considered Western.

[Wulfhere]

Well, the Estonian Waffen-SS did hold the Soviets still at the Narva front for a long period of time. If the inferior Waffen-SS legions in the south wouldn't have been defeated, then Hitler wouldn't have had to pull out the troops from the Baltic area.

If the local Waffen-SS legions and the Germans wouldn't have fiercely resisted the Soviets, then the USSR could have reached Norway and France. The USSR actually had plans to launch an attack at the UK from Norway, but they never made it that far.

To sum it up, yes we prevented the USSR expanding further westwards.

:lol00002::lol00002::lol00002:

And praising the SS will win you no favours in the UK, either.

[Bridie]

The Holy Roman Empire has always been considered Western.
Everyone wants to be Western.... :rolleyes: (Not sure why exactly.)

[Wulfhere]

The Holy Roman Empire has always been considered Western.

Compared to Estonia maybe, but to us in the West, it definitely smacks more of Central European despotism and huge, unwieldy polyglot empires - just like the EU.

[Wulfhere]

Everyone wants to be Western.... :rolleyes: (Not sure why exactly.)

Odd that, isn't it.

[Äike]

:lol00002:

:lol00002::lol00002::lol00002:

And praising the SS will win you no favours in the UK, either.

Thank the Germans for keeping the USSR occupied, or you would be speaking Russian.


Everyone wants to be Western.... :rolleyes: (Not sure why exactly.)

Ukrainians and other Slavs want to be Western, while Estonians are Western in the cultural definition. We can't change 700 years of history :(

[Wulfhere]

Thank the Germans for keeping the USSR occupied, or you would be speaking Russian.



Ukrainians and other Slavs want to be Western, while Estonians are Western in the cultural definition.

According to you.

[Äike]

According to you.

No, according to history. German was the lingua franca here for the past 700 years. The situation changed in the 20th century.

[poiuytrewq0987]

According to you.

Aren't a lot of BS you spout here also "according to you"? ;)

[Äike]

Aren't a lot of BS you spout here also "according to you"? ;)

GTFO, you're Eastern ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Clash_of_Civilizations_map2.png

[esaima]

Well, the Estonian Waffen-SS did hold the Soviets still at the Narva front for a long period of time. If the inferior Waffen-SS legions in the south wouldn't have been defeated, then Hitler wouldn't have had to pull out the troops from the Baltic area.

If the local Waffen-SS legions and the Germans wouldn't have fiercely resisted the Soviets, then the USSR could have reached Norway and France. The USSR actually had plans to launch an attack at the UK from Norway, but they never made it that far.

To sum it up, yes we prevented the USSR expanding further westwards.
Yes, indeed.

[Eldritch]

We should never have let these poxy Eastern European "countries" join the EU.

Who exactly is this "we" you refer to?

[Bridie]

GTFO, you're Eastern ;)
There's nothing wrong with being Eastern, Põhjamaalane. You make it sound as though there is. :confused:

[nisse]

A small country has to belong to some political organization. We had to pick between the EU or Russia. Look at Ukraine and Belarus, they picked Russia and they're quite messed up now.

Erm, no. Ukraine didn't pick Russia, it's not so small that it has to join some block. Belarus didn't pick. They've got crazy Lukashenko and that's that.

And Estonia is not Eastern Europe. It's a former "eastern block" country but that's not the same as Eastern Europe. Baltic states do their own thing.

[Äike]

There's nothing wrong with being Eastern, Põhjamaalane. You make it sound as though there is. :confused:

Põhjamaalane means Northerner in Estonian. Estonians consider themselves to be Northerners and Northern-European culture is a sub-group of Western culture.

I am Northern firstly and Western secondly.

[poiuytrewq0987]

GTFO, you're Eastern ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Clash_of_Civilizations_map2.png

I'm pretty sure that I don't care if my country is classified Eastern, Western or Southern.

[Äike]

Erm, no. Ukraine didn't pick Russia, it's not so small that it has to join some block. Belarus didn't pick. They've got crazy Lukashenko and that's that.

I was referring to the Commonwealth of Independent States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States.svg/800px-Commonwealth_of_Independent_States.svg.png


And Estonia is not Eastern Europe. It's a former "eastern block" country but that's not the same as Eastern Europe. Baltic states do their own thing.

Indeed, Estonia isn't Eastern European and I do not consider Estonia, Baltic. As we are not Balts.

[Svarog]

Eastern sounds good to me, but, I don't understand the map that says:

dark blue marker is western
light blue marker is orthodox

what one has to do with the another? :S

Since when different sects of Christianity divided anything or had anything to do with geography?

Also do not understand how financial situation has anything to do with who 'beats' who.

Geographical position can be easily calculate thanks to precisely written maps.
Cultural map can be taken into a consideration in so many ways it is ridiculous to even go on with it - and despite, it all counts for nothing in the post-modern society.

[Äike]

I'm pretty sure that I don't care if my country is classified Eastern, Western or Southern.

That's interesting. You care a lot about my country, as you have showed in several threads.

[Bridie]

Põhjamaalane means Northerner in Estonian. Estonians consider themselves to be Northerners and Northern-European culture is a sub-group of Western culture.

I am Northern firstly and Western secondly.Geographically, you're North Eastern... but culturally and historically if you say you're solely Northern, then I suppose you must be. Yet Northern isn't a "sub-group" of Western. :p Western is Atlantic, an expansive region that is quite distinct in itself.

[Äike]

Geographically, you're North Eastern... but culturally and historically if you say you're Northern, then I suppose you must be. But Northern isn't a "sub-group" of Western. Western is Atlantic, an expansive region that is quite distinct in itself.

I am talking about Western as a cultural term, you are talking about it as a geographical term.

[Wulfhere]

Sorry, but both are Northern European countries.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Europe_subregion_map_UN_geoschme.svg/680px-Europe_subregion_map_UN_geoschme.svg.png

Northern Europe = Dark blue
Eastern Europe = Red / Pink / whatever I should call it

Yes, we've already had the Wikipedia thing, and have moved on.

[Guapo]

Sorry, but both are Northern European countries.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Europe_subregion_map_UN_geoschme.svg/680px-Europe_subregion_map_UN_geoschme.svg.png

Northern Europe = Dark blue
Eastern Europe = Red / Pink / whatever I should call it

Bulgaria should be the same color as Turkey.

[Wulfhere]

I am talking about Western as a cultural term, you are talking about it as a geographical term.

The two are not unrelated.

[Laudanum]

Yes, we've already had the Wikipedia thing, and have moved on.

Yeah, I just saw it. My bad.;)

[Bridie]

I am talking about Western as a cultural term, you are talking about it as a geographical term.I was speaking of cultural commonalities when using the term "Atlantic" in that case.

[nisse]

Indeed, Estonia isn't Eastern European and I do not consider Estonia, Baltic. As we are not Balts.
Baltic as in large Baltic sea coastline. I think anyone who doubts the Western association of Estonia has never been there. It is quite clear from the architecture and arts and crafts (although there is a large northern component in some) if nothing else.

[Äike]

Baltic as in large Baltic sea coastline. I think anyone who doubts the Western association of Estonia has never been there. It is quite clear from the architecture and arts and crafts (although there is a large northern component in some) if nothing else.

Indeed, Tallinn's old town is one of the most preserved old towns in the world and the most preserved old town of Northern Europe.

Tallinn also had the tallest building in the world in the 16th century.


St. Olaf’s church or St. Olav's church (Estonian: Oleviste kirik) in Tallinn, Estonia, is believed to have been built in the 12th century and to have been the centre for old Tallinn's Scandinavian community prior to the conquest of Tallinn by Denmark in 1219. Its dedication relates to King Olaf II of Norway (a.k.a. Saint Olaf, 995-1030). The first known written records referring to the church date back to 1267, and it was extensively rebuilt during the 14th century.
A legend tells that the builder of the church, named Olaf, upon its completion, fell to his death from atop the tower. It is said that when his body hit the ground, a snake and a toad crawled out of his mouth. There is a wall-carving depicting this event in the adjoining Chapel of Our Lady.
Around 1500, the building reached a height of 159 meters. The motivation for building such an immensely tall steeple must have been to use it as a maritime signpost, which made the trading city of Tallinn visible from far out at sea. St. Olaf's church was the world's tallest building from 1549 to 1625.

[Murphy]

I also belong to the Orthodox church.

Eastern Orthodox Church ;).

[Äike]

Eastern Orthodox Church ;).

You took that out of context... Anyway, I'm Lutheran, just like the majority of Norwegians, Swedes, Danes and Finns.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/V%C3%A4steuropa-karta.png
The European territory of the West according to Huntington. The map represented the Orthodox East and Western Christian (Catholic-Protestant) West. Through the centuries, the Great Schism caused determinant differences in societal structure, in ruling forms, in applied technologies and economic development, in philosophy and ethics, in architecture, in fine-arts and clothing.

[Pallantides]

You took that out of context... Anyway, I'm Lutheran, just like the majority of Norwegians, Swedes, Danes and Finns.


Yeah but most Norwegians are just godless heathens who happen to be born members of the Norwegian state Church. :D

[Murphy]

Protestantism is a rebellion against everything the West is. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You have sided with the enemies of the West.

[Laudanum]

Protestantism is a rebellion against everything the West is. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You have sided with the enemies of the West.

This thread is not about Protestantism. ;)

[Murphy]

This thread is not about Protestantism. ;)

He brought Protestantism up first :D!

[Svarog]

Orthodoxy is also part of the Christianity.

And to be true, I'd start colouring Germany, England, France.. with the green marker representing Islam.

[Äike]

Yeah but most Norwegians are just godless heathens who happen to be born members of the Norwegian state Church. :D

Just like Estonians :p Estonians are the least religious people in the world, followed by Swedes, Danes and Norwegians.

[Zyklop]

As if this Westernism wouldn't be the same artificial shit as Germanicism, Celticism, Slavicism or Nordicism or any other -ism that only serves to inflate oneself and suck up to others. There haven't been any such unities in Europe ever before, why should they emerge now after decades of cultural decay even on a national level?

Estonian culture should be distinctive enough to need no meta-ethnicity.

[Svarog]

There haven't been any such unities in Europe ever before

Nope, never.

Mostly countries bordering each other are 'hostile' while BFFs (best friends forever) are the ones on the opposite side of the map.

I witnessed French refusing to speak English, Danes refusing to speak German, I won't even start on the Balkan soap opera etc

All this unity and identification with other nations calling brotherly connections no one knows about are usually romantic big pictures of single persons living in the clouds.

Everyone should have it's own state, with it's own people in it, speaking their own language and practicing their own culture. As far as brotherly connection goes.. they last just as long as there is personal interest in it.

[Wölfin]

^ I think its interesting that generally countries who are side by side tend to have the most commonalities yet of course hate each other's guts.

[Jarl]

Nope, never.

But Karl is 1/8 Swedish and he thinks he is better than others, he imagines being Nordic = better... And wants to feel better than others :P

[Svanhild]

Estland is North-Eastern European to me. Primarily Northern by culture, language, habitus and German-influenced past and secondarily Eastern by geographical position. If we call Czech Republic and Poland Eastern European we can't call Estonia solely Northern European due to the fact that its position is eastward of both Czech Republic and Poland. :wink

[Svarog]

But Karl is 1/8 Swedish and he thinks he is better than others, he imagines being Nordic = better... And wants to feel better than others :P

I am 1/8 Danish, can I snuggle somewhere in there with you?

[Äike]

But Karl is 1/8 Swedish and he thinks he is better than others, he imagines being Nordic = better... And wants to feel better than others :P

I do not think that being Nordic makes me superior to other European people...

You're the Pole who's username is "Jarl" ;) You're the one who thinks that "being Nordic = better"

[Jarl]

I do not think that being Nordic makes me superior to other European people...

You're the Pole who's username is "Jarl" ;) You're the one who thinks that "being Nordic = better"

Yes but I don't pretend to be Nordic, nor aspire to Nordicism. I am content with who I am and don't need to delude myself ;)

[Äike]

Yes but I don't pretend to be Nordic, nor aspire to Nordicism. I am content with who I am and don't need to delude myself ;)

I am not a Nordicist.

[Jarl]

I am not a Nordicist.

Phew! That's a relief you know :D

[poiuytrewq0987]

I am not a Nordicist.

Hey there's this really hot Estonian babe who wants to marry me but I'm a dirty Balkan Slav - so I'm asking you, can I marry her???

[Pallantides]

^ I think its interesting that generally countries who are side by side tend to have the most commonalities yet of course hate each other's guts.

Norway, Denmark and Sweden have pretty good realtions these days.

[Jarl]

Hey there's this really hot Estonian babe who wants to marry me but I'm a dirty Balkan Slav - so I'm asking you, can I marry her???


That depends on her hair colour... If she's a brunette then she must be Russian. We all know that all swarths in Estonia are Russians ;)



..is that right Karl?


...HELLO! KARL!!!

[Laudanum]

Hey there's this really hot Estonian babe who wants to marry me but I'm a dirty Balkan Slav - so I'm asking you, can I marry her???

http://neoncstar.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/facepalm2ic7copyrl2-jpg.jpeg

[Äike]

Hey there's this really hot Estonian babe who wants to marry me but I'm a dirty Balkan Slav - so I'm asking you, can I marry her???

I believe in the preservation of European ethnicities. If you're Macedonian, then you should marry a Macedonian.

There are less then 1 million Estonians in Estonia, think about that too. If there would be 1 billion Estonians then I wouldn't have a problem with foreigners at all.

Me not wanting you to marry an Estonian isn't related to your ethnicity nor origin.

[Äike]

That depends on her hair colour... If she's a brunette then she must be Russian. We all know that all swarths in Estonia are Russians ;)



..is that right Karl?


...HELLO! KARL!!!

Yes, dark Estonians have foreign ancestors.


71,8% of Estonians had blond hair. 64% had blue-grey eyes, 24% had blue eyes. Aul noted the presence of a short dark-haired and dark-eyed type (10%-13%).

The foreign dark type was mostly found in Saaremaa, Southern Pärnumaa, Southern Viljandimaa and Central Tartumaa. These are also the areas that have been ravaged the most in various wars. He thought the dark elements have a Southern/Central and/or an Eastern European origin. Partly it could have been due to Latvian influence (as they had more of this dark type, as did the Finns who might have gotten dark features from the Saami). The dark type was mostly composed of the Alpine race while he also mentioned the Dinaric type and the Mediterranean type. The dark types had gotten strong influence from the surrounding population, though.

In 1814, Karl Ernst von Baer also mentioned the dark type: "The (Estonians') hair is most frequently blond, often white in childhood; there is also black hair along with a dark complexion. The very few Estonians that have dark hair are short, but have a stronger build. They are more serious, stubborn and reserved than the majority who are phlegmatic."

[poiuytrewq0987]

I believe in the preservation of European ethnicities. If you're Macedonian, then you should marry a Macedonian.

There are less then 1 million Estonians in Estonia, think about that too. If there would be 1 billion Estonians then I wouldn't have a problem with foreigners at all.

Me not wanting you to marry an Estonian isn't related to your ethnicity nor origin.

Aww, what's wrong? I think Estonian-Macedonian hybrids (Macestonians) will make some pretty darn hot babes!!

[Jarl]

Aww, what's wrong? I think Estonian-Macedonian hybrids (Macestonians) will make some pretty darn hot babes!!


No. Let's not do that.


It's better to keep the Turks and Mongols separate...

[poiuytrewq0987]

No. Let's no do that.


It's better to keep the Turks and Mongols separate...

Meh I don't care!

[Jarl]

Yes, dark Estonians have foreign ancestors.

Are you bloody joking me? All Brown-eyed, brown-haired Estonians are not Estonians?

[Äike]

Aww, what's wrong? I think Estonian-Macedonian hybrids (Macestonians) will make some pretty darn hot babes!!

Hybrids aren't hot.


No. Let's no do that.


It's better to keep the Turks and Mongols (http://www.unc.edu/courses/2007spring/hist/490/006/mongolempire_map.jpg) separate...

As far as I know, he didn't mention anything about Poles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Poland).

[Jarl]

Hybrids aren't hot.


Yeah! I've heard those 1/8th Swedish ones are really damn ugly!



As far as I know, he didn't mention anything about Poles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Poland).

Look into my sig... We came from the steppes herding you uralian-boys like cattle... yyyyheeeww!!! :P

[Äike]

Are you bloody joking me? All Brown-eyed, brown-haired Estonians are not Estonians?

Brown-haired doesn't equal dark. We are talking about dark brunettes and people with black hair. I still haven't met an Estonian with dark brown eyes who would be 100% Estonian.

I met an Estonian once with light brown eyes and dark brunette hair, I later found out that she is 1/4 Jewish.


dark elements have a Southern/Central and/or an Eastern European origin

[Jarl]

Poles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Poland).


Ah, you sly bastard! I missed that one link! But that was like one single battle in Silesia, in Southern Poland and they then left to Hungary.



Brown-haired doesn't equal dark. We are talking about dark brunettes and people with black hair. I still haven't met an Estonian with dark brown eyes who would be 100% Estonian.

I met an Estonian once with light brown eyes and dark brunette hair, I later found out that she is 1/4 Jewish.


Mkay, I can buy that crap about the black hair, but I will never believe that Estonians originally had no brown eyes. Just look at your borthas from the Mother Vogla! ;)

[Äike]

Yeah! I've heard those 1/8th Swedish ones are really damn ugly!

Still prettier than Poles :p



Look into my sig... We came from the steppes herding you uralian-boys like cattle... yyyyheeeww!!! :P

You're actually a Paleolithic European who has forsaken his Finno-Ugric heritage and has adopted an Indo-European language :p

http://www.wiik.fi/kalevi/images/kartta1.gif

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6857/image7kz.jpg

[Äike]

Ah, you sly bastard! I missed that one link! But that was like one single battle in Silesia, in Southern Poland and they then left to Hungary.

Still... The Mongols nor the Huns have never been to Estonia.



Mkay, I can buy that crap about the black hair, but I will never believe that Estonians originally had no brown eyes. Just look at your borthas from the Mother Vogla! ;)

They have Slavic/Turkic/Siberian/Mongol/Tatar blood, Udmurts live next to Tatars, Komis live next to Siberians, others live next to Turkics etc...

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/112/finnsandgeneticrelative.png

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8236/finnsandlinguisticrelat.png

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9430/finnsgeneticandlinguist.png

[Guapo]

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6857/image7kz.jpg

The real Europeans are Balkanoids.Yes.

[Jarl]

Still prettier than Poles :p


Yeah. We're not pretty pussies down here. We are SLAVS:


http://artyzm.com/obrazy/orlowski-walczacy.jpg

http://zbigniew.romanski.w.interia.pl/ranny_kirasjer_i_dziewczyna.jpg

http://darz-bor.info/pliki/id/96/oszczepnicy.jpg

(spearmen at bear hunt - for uninformed)


sons of Sarmatia ;)

[Äike]

The real Europeans are Balkanoids.Yes.

The real Indo-Europeans are Balkanoids, yes.

Northern-Europeans are UP-Europeans who adapted Indo-European languages without demic difussion.

[Laudanum]

I find it quite amusing how this thread originally was about Estonia and the EU, and just look what it has become in such a short time... :P

[Äike]

I find it quite amusing how this thread originally was about Estonia and the EU, and just look what it has become in such a short time... :P

This happens to every single thread that Jarl visits.

[Jarl]

I find it quite amusing how this thread originally was about Estonia and the EU, and just look what it has become in such a short time... :P

LOL! With Karl it's inevitable... He's ob(po)sessed! :D

[Guapo]

Jarl & Karl, a real funny duo.

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/laurel-and-hardy_standees-l.jpg

[Pallantides]

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6857/image7kz.jpg


I always thought that was a 'joke' map, In Norway e.Kr(etter Kristi fødsel) means after the birth of Christ.

[Jarl]

Karl's the fatso.... obviously!

[Äike]

I always thought that was a 'joke' map, In Norway e.Kr(etter Kristi fødsel) means after the birth of Christ.

in Finnish and Estonian e.Kr means enne Kristuse sündi/Before the the birth of Christ.


Karl's the fatso.... obviously!

My BMI is 20.5 :cool:

[Guapo]

in Finnish and Estonian e.Kr means enne Kristuse sündi/Before the the birth of Christ.

I always thought that Finnish and Estonian sound like Swedish and Norwegian spoken backwards.

[Laudanum]

My BMI is 20.5 :cool:

Ooh no.. Now we're gonna get a fight about who's the fatso.. :D

[Jarl]

My BMI is 20.5 :cool:

Which, taking into account that you are possibly a girl, is not so surprising after all...

[Äike]

Which, taking into account that you are possibly a girl, is not so surprising after all...

Jarl, wtf?

[Laudanum]

Which, taking into account that you are possibly a girl, is not so surprising after all...

''Ooooh.. That's a punch in the face. We're all waiting for Karl to strike back!''


...:coffee:

[Guapo]

Which, taking into account that you are possibly a girl, is not so surprising after all...

Well if he's the one in the red dress then I want his phone #

[Jarl]

Jarl, wtf?

Karl! I've heard Estonia is the pinnacle of Nordic industry:

http://www.transsib.ru/Insignia/Collection/Poster/d-1950-plakat-budy_zorkim.jpg


Bud zorkim na postu!



Well if he's the one in the red dress then I want his phone #

Yuck!


Fake Uralic Blonde Bimbos! FUBBs!

[Äike]

Karl! I've heard Estonia is the pinnacle of Nordic industry:

http://www.transsib.ru/Insignia/Collection/Poster/d-1950-plakat-budy_zorkim.jpg

Yeah, we export e-knowledge(e-government, e-voting, e-school, e-everything) :p

[Laudanum]

Yeah, we export e-knowledge(e-government, e-voting, e-school, e-everything) :p

http://media.herald-dispatch.com/blog/games/uploaded_images/mk4-734274.gif

[Jarl]

http://media.herald-dispatch.com/blog/games/uploaded_images/mk4-734274.gif



http://blackhatseo-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/fatality.png

[Laudanum]

Most useless thread in history? xD

[Jarl]

Most useless thread in history? xD



K4KhU-GIPJY

[Laudanum]

K4KhU-GIPJY

Too bad, you're not Kano. You're still the fatso. :D

[Guapo]

Nice tramp stamp, Põõhmama.

http://www.pwawrestling.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/women-wrestling-00011.JPG

[Äike]

Mkay, I can buy that crap about the black hair, but I will never believe that Estonians originally had no brown eyes. Just look at your borthas from the Mother Vogla! ;)


The Udmurts have often been described as an extremely red-haired and light-eyed people,[2] and there have been claims that they are the "most red-headed" people in the world.

:p

[Laudanum]

Well guys, that was quite a heavy fight!

Too bad no one really won, though.:bored0:

[The Ripper]

Well guys, that was quite a heavy fight!

Too bad no one really won, though.:bored0:

Most of the threads here at TA seem so devolve into running battles between The Usual Suspects. :coffee:

[esaima]

All brown-haired Estonians are not Estonians?

Honestly, I have never understand these statements very well. Should we have white hair (according to books)?
Are all these Jews singing Estonian national songs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcOoePr1zw4





Besides, how it is all connected with Euros and Economics?:D

[Äike]

Honestly, I have never understand these statements very well. Should we have white hair (according to books)?
Are all these Jews singing Estonian national songs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcOoePr1zw4

Jarl confused brown hair with dark brunetter/black hair. The most common hair color in Estonia is dark blond/light brown. The dark brunettes are foreign, not the normal brown-haired Estonians.




Besides, how it is all connected with Euros and Economics?:D

It isn't :....

[Laudanum]

Besides, how it is all connected with Euros and Economics?:D

Why don't you see the connection? I thought the connection was rather obvious. :confused:

[Jarl]

I don't understand a word of what those barbarians are saying, but it does not sound too bad.


Is that Alexandr Lukaszenko with an afro, singing in Estonian?

e88UasQwalk

:D

[Hussar]

Bulgaria should be the same color as Turkey.


Nah, that map is useless.

Better the one i elaborated months ago (if i post it again Osweo will kill me now... :tongue)


I imagined essentially the bio-geographical demarcations of european continent (Habitat/culture/phenotype).

Northern, central (continental), and southern (mediterranean) belts.

http://i47.tinypic.com/6nv4ut.gif

[Pallantides]

I don't understand a word of what those barbarians are saying, but it does not sound too bad.


Is that Alexandr Lukaszenko with an afro, singing in Estonian?

e88UasQwalk

:D

He has brown hair ...so he is obviously a Russian or a gypsy. ;)

[Äike]

He has brown hair ...so he is obviously a Russian or a gypsy. ;)

The majority of Europeans are Russians and Gypsies then :p

[Jarl]

That would stick

[Osweo]

That would stick
or stink? :p

Thank the Germans for keeping the USSR occupied, or you would be speaking Russian.
1917 caught the Bolsheviks by surprise. The leadership was mostly in Switzerland at the time. Care to look at a map and tell me which government let Lenin and co. travel through their territory to get 'home'? If it helps, I can give the clue that the country involved wanted to unleash all the horrors of Marxist revolution on a wartime foe... :(

It's better to keep the Turks and Mongols separate...
Tak, Tamerlane was bad enough the first time... :thumb001:

[nisse]

Honestly, I have never understand these statements very well. Should we have white hair (according to books)?
Are all these Jews singing Estonian national songs?

Actually, I was under the impression that native estonians are all light coloured (eyes at least), because in the old days they (and other tribes in the area) were called "white-eyed chud'" in russian.

...this thread is sad :(

[Zyklop]

Compared to Estonia maybe, but to us in the West, it definitely smacks more of Central European despotism The Holy Roman Empire, for the longest part of its existence, was a de-centralised, non-absolutist entity. It takes a lot of delusion to consider such a state despotic. For a better example look at France under Louis XIV or the Jacobin rule.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Holy_Roman_Empire_1648_fr.svg/756px-Holy_Roman_Empire_1648_fr.svg.png

[Hussar]

The Holy Roman Empire, for the longest part of its existence, was a de-centralised, non-absolutist entity. It takes a lot of delusion to consider such a state despotic. For a better example look at France under Louis XIV or the Jacobin rule.




The map you posted shows the late hol roman empire. When it was almost dead (and included almost exclusively germanic populations).


just 100 yrs earlier was more like........

http://i49.tinypic.com/2e4w2ro.gif

[Äike]

1917 caught the Bolsheviks by surprise. The leadership was mostly in Switzerland at the time. Care to look at a map and tell me which government let Lenin and co. travel through their territory to get 'home'? If it helps, I can give the clue that the country involved wanted to unleash all the horrors of Marxist revolution on a wartime foe... :(

I was talking about WW2, not WW1.

[Eldritch]

^ I think its interesting that generally countries who are side by side tend to have the most commonalities yet of course hate each other's guts.

I believe that this one post, more so than any other on this forum that I've read, defines in one sentence the essence of "Europeanness". :thumb001:


Protestantism is a rebellion against everything the West is. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You have sided with the enemies of the West.

This may be (or rather it is) a topic for its own thread, but I'd like to hear what your idea of what the "West" actually is, I mean in the spiritual and intellectual sense, rather than geographic.