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Treffie
05-15-2010, 09:19 AM
Men evolved manly jawlines and thick brows because they used to fight for women in the past, claim anthropologists

Winning a mate used to depend only on physical prowess and men with the strongest jawline and thickest skulls were better able to survive onslaughts from love rivals.

That meant that over time all men developed thicker bones in the jaws, around the eyes and on the forehead than women.

They also developed a greater proportion of muscle to fat than women and became taller than women, said the study

Dr David Puts, whose findings are published in Evolution and Human Behaviour, said unlike many animal species men and women are similarly sized although men develop more muscle and women more fat.

Dr Puts, of Pennsylvania State University, said: "On average men are not all that much bigger than women, only about 15 percent larger. But the average guy is stronger than 99.9 percent of women."

Men are also far more aggressive than women, with about 30 percent in small-scale foraging communities dying violently. Dr Puts suggests while a deep voice has been considered an appealing trait to women, it actually signals dominance.

He said: "A deep voice makes men look dominant and older. A low voice's effect on dominance is many times greater than its effect on sexual attraction."

The main sticking point with human male competition compared to other species is men do not possess inherent weapons like antlers and claws. But they have always manufactured them instead including bows and arrows, spears and knives.

Dr Puts suggests species that live in three-dimensional space – birds and insects in the air or swimming creatures in the sea – tend not to compete for mates using physical competition because it would be very difficult for a male to defend females while fighting other males on all fronts.

Species that live on the ground or the sea floor have it easier because there are only two dimensions to defend. Some insects that live in tunnels or burrows exhibit the most intense competition because it is impossible for the other male to get to the females except through the defender.

Male competition is rare among birds, occurring to a greater degree among large terrestrial species. Tree-living primates also show less physical competition. Humans living in a two-dimensional environment would experience substantial physical competition for mates.

According to Dr Puts, humans and chimpanzees create male coalitions that are often strengthened by kinship. Coalitions can help males defend females from other males. But when external forces are absent, these same males can compete with each other for mates.

These ideas may seem to paint a rather bleak picture of human nature with men dishing it out among themselves for most of human evolution.

"Things are different for us now in many ways. It is heartening to think human behaviour is flexible enough that the right social institutions can increase equality and peace."

Source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/7725655/Men-developed-thicker-foreheads-and-jaws-due-to-fighting-over-women.html)

Saruman
05-15-2010, 11:02 AM
Then I guess mine have fought for women really hard. :thumb001: And I keep the tradition as well.;)

Agrippa
05-15-2010, 11:52 AM
Human females are more specialised on getting children in a bipep body, which automatically limits their ability to be as effective physically.

Also there is not just one reason for the sexual dimorphism, but many, from hunting and fighting individually AND in groups to appearance and social dominance.

Additionally this particular traits he mentioned are functionally secundary and rather indirectly related, and there exist other traits for social and sexual dominance, f.e. the overall facial and nasal shape etc.

So while he is not totally wrong, he looks at it from a one sided perspective.


According to Dr Puts, humans and chimpanzees create male coalitions that are often strengthened by kinship. Coalitions can help males defend females from other males. But when external forces are absent, these same males can compete with each other for mates.

Absolutely right on that. The evolution of altruism being partly the result of male group competition and even the progressive racial developments being largely the result of group rather than individual competition alone.

Whole racial forms are more feminine or subdominant in appearance than progressive-dominant racial forms, also compare with this:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12464


thicker foreheads and jaws

He should also consider overall muscle strength and the chewing apparatus...

Cato
05-15-2010, 03:00 PM
http://thephantasmagoricals.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/mugshot__andre-the-giant1.jpg

With looks like this, Andre the Giant would've been quite the genetic jackhammer back in the caveman days- or he'd spend all day in the cave drunk on stone age swill.

Liffrea
05-15-2010, 03:17 PM
Men evolved manly jawlines and thick brows because they used to fight for women in the past,

“Used to”? In my experience many fights between blokes today involve a women somewhere along the line, indeed according to Howard Bloom women actively stir the excrement between men in order to make them fight, sexual selection at play for the fittest and most “courageous” men i.e. the ones more likely to spark out a potential rival.


"Things are different for us now in many ways. It is heartening to think human behaviour is flexible enough that the right social institutions can increase equality and peace."

I don’t know about females but reading statements like this make me want to smash a chair over someone’s head. I didn't inherit much physically from my Conan ancestors but I think I did mentally.

Óttar
05-15-2010, 03:53 PM
He said: "A deep voice makes men look dominant and older..."

This actually bodes well for me then. :D


“Used to”? In my experience many fights between blokes today involve a women somewhere along the line, indeed according to Howard Bloom women actively stir the excrement between men in order to make them fight, sexual selection at play for the fittest and most “courageous” men i.e. the ones more likely to spark out a potential rival.

This has always irked me, to think that in order to get a quality female I'm essentially in a brutal tooth and claw bloodsport, meanwhile the women stand on the sideline and watch the spectacle.

I'm going to the gym more, hopefully that will help. I don't expect to be Egil Skallagrimmsson anytime soon though. :cool:

Liffrea
05-15-2010, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by Óttar
This has always irked me, to think that in order to get a quality female I'm essentially in a brutal tooth and claw bloodsport, meanwhile the women stand on the sideline and watch the spectacle.

It doesn’t always work that way, humans are singularly able to “ignore” their programming to a degree, whether that’s a good idea or not is something else. For instance other studies of women on the pill have shown they are more likely to be attracted to feminine looking men, so you could go out and spend a fortune on cosmetics a hair cut and wear a sarong. Remember the film Demolition Man? Who knows fifty years from now if you're not a make up wearing nancy boy you might be stuck in the museum.

Personally I would rather have the shit kicked out of me in a cage fight than be seen wearing “creams” but whatever floats your boat.

The other option is work on your financial muscle. Or just tell them you have a large nob.

Tabiti
05-15-2010, 07:24 PM
It would be much better if they developed the most powerful weapon instead:
http://themindperspective.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/human-brain-vis304784-ga.jpg
BTW, I've never seen men fighting for women, but the opposite. What do the women developed then? Gossip, intrigue and cat fight talents?

Wölfin
05-15-2010, 07:32 PM
It would be much better if they developed the most powerful weapon instead:
http://themindperspective.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/human-brain-vis304784-ga.jpg
BTW, I've never seen men fighting for women, but the opposite. What do the women developed then? Gossip, intrigue and cat fight talents?

Actually, studies have shown that throughout the day Men Gossip significantly more than women do. The difference is they don't call it gossip because that would be «girlie» :rolleyes2:

Let it be known women are also competitive for men. You see, the human population is majoritarily female (52% of the global population is female with 48% being male) even if there is a bigger % of newborns that are male (in the developped world esp).

But the difference between cavemen and men today is HOW they fight for women. They compete by trying to acheive the highest monetary and societal success, to seem a stable, attractive mate. Security is the keyword and always has been. Be it originally to protect from physical harm, to today, protect from financial hardship and misery.

Tabiti
05-15-2010, 07:43 PM
But the difference between cavemen and men today is HOW they fight for women. They compete by trying to acheive the highest monetary and societal success, to seem a stable, attractive mate. Security is the keyword and always has been. Be it originally to protect from physical harm, to today, protect from financial hardship and misery.
Protecting? Many men use their power only for domination over their trophies. Because they feel weak, endangered by the increased level of so called female emancipation.
Same goes with modern women - independence means domination.
We can't just compare stone age behavior with the recent one, because the gender roles have undergone many changes during the epochs.

Women do fight for men even more severe - plastic surgery, fashion industry, cosmetic industry, etc.

Eldritch
05-15-2010, 07:54 PM
To paraphrase Finnish blogger Ironmistress:

Every man gets a lottery ticket handed to them at birth. Most of their tickets say "this ticket wins nothing". Only a few of them say "this one wins the jackpot". It's the men in the latter category that women fight over.

Women's tickets, however, nearly always say "this ticket wins a little bit". If a woman is willing to adjust her standards even by a small degree, she'll almost always be able to find some male companionship. The reverse is not true for men.

Tabiti
05-15-2010, 08:01 PM
If a woman is willing to adjust her standards even by a small degree, she'll almost always be able to find some male companionship.
Sure, but it can cost a lot. Your freedom, for example. Not every woman wants to turn into a doll in a golden cage.

Agrippa
05-15-2010, 08:06 PM
http://thephantasmagoricals.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/mugshot__andre-the-giant1.jpg

With looks like this, Andre the Giant would've been quite the genetic jackhammer back in the caveman days- or he'd spend all day in the cave drunk on stone age swill.

That guy is Akromegaloid, no normal condition or at least borderline.

CordedWhelp
12-20-2013, 04:25 AM
This shit is funny....