When you think of Indians and Pakistanis, which of the two images comes to mind?

[Tooting Carmen]

Both are Brits of South Asian descent:

Riz Ahmed, actor
http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/c66fbd34-a9ff-11e1-a6a7-00144feabdc0.img

Samit Patel, cricket player
http://topnews.in/law/files/samit-patel.jpg

[Antimage]

definitely the second.

[Leto]

Oddly enough, the second one looks mostly caucasoid.:)

[Tooting Carmen]

Oddly enough, the second one looks mostly caucasoid.:)

How exactly?

[Leto]

How exactly?
What do you mean? I mean his features are more or less caucasoid, despite him being so brown-skinned.

[Tooting Carmen]

What do you mean? I mean his features are more or less caucasoid, despite being so brown-skinned.

Even his nose and bone structure?

[Leto]

Even his nose and bone structure?
Isn't he caucasoid to you? What race is he then?

[Tooting Carmen]

Isn't he caucasoid to you? What race is he then?

Caucasoid-Australoid mix, like most Indians and many Pakistanis.

[SupaThug]

The first one!

[Antimage]

Caucasoid-Australoid mix, like most Indians and many Pakistanis.

yeah he is.

btw for me the second guy is indian looking, the first one is pakistani looking

[Tooting Carmen]

yeah he is.

btw for me the second guy is indian looking, the first one is pakistani looking

The distinction between the two is not always so clear-cut - plenty of Northern Indians can look like Riz Ahmed or lighter still, but at the same time he is lighter-than-average, though still commonplace, even for Pakistan, where the average is closer to Pervez Musharraf if anything.

[Leto]

Caucasoid-Australoid mix, like most Indians and many Pakistanis.
Okay. Actually, I would say he is not bad if I were to rate him. LOL.:) His face seems harmonious.

[Berlin88]

Riz Ahmed is a Pakistani who traces his ancestry to India, in other words, a Muhajir.


As for his own identity, Ahmed, who was born in London to Pakistani parents who moved to the UK in the 1970s, says, "Any given day you might ask me where's your family from and I would tell you London or Karachi or India." His accent is solidly British but his family in Karachi traces its roots to Uttar Pradesh.http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/mira-nair-the-reluctant-fundamentalist-changez-mohsin-hamid/1/272856.html

He is from a Muslim upper-caste heritage (read that an ancestor of his was Sir Shah Suleiman, the first Indian judge appointed by the British in UP, and further back in his lineage, an ancestor served in the Mughal courts) so take that into account. Average North Indians look slightly different.

The picture (and assuming, stereotype) for Indians is slightly unfair. Patels in themselves have a wide spectrum of skintones and looks.

Top of google

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Last+Airbender+New+York+Premiere+Outside+Arrivals+ CC5RoFdfslCl.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Raj_Patel.jpg

http://www.mxmindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Devendra-PatelSandesh.jpg

http://photography.kevinwarnock.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/5-Heli-Patel-photographed-by-Kevin-Warnock-August-6-2012.jpg

http://successwithterri.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Neil-Patel.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2010/asish-patel_d.jpg

[Gustave H]

Indians : 2nd pic
Pakistanis: 1st pic

[jatt]

2nd pic make it lighter n you will get sikhs look. First one is distinctly PakisA I By our standard both r ugly though

[Dani Cutie]

dad
http://content3.skoften.net/images/46273/69b9fe7368c668e2554ac52715de842b__800.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

Any more votes and suggestions?

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Peter Nirsch]

both because they are both of those countries!

[Iloko]

The brown southern Indian looking one. They are also said to be the smarter ones, which fit a common stereotype.

[Tiberio]

First one in north India and Pakistan, second in south India and Sri Lanka.

[jatt]

all those who says first one is very fair and all that know nothing about us.. he is distinctly Pakistani looking but he aint that fair.... here is how Sikhs look from india

http://bhangraempire.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/bhangra-empire-jashan-2012-liaison.jpg
http://www.nritoday.net/articles/images/dec08/Bhangra-wibnners.jpghttp://whatsupbahrain.net/media/image/Bhangra-Empire.jpg

Sikh men n women in traditional dress

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oQyz1sQbo-o/S7n6-qtXM6I/AAAAAAAAF_4/4kn7nByqrCI/s1600/05AprilWCKP3.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1004870_418796744924031_8612581420060566226_n.jpg? oh=fcb2cc8888369aa714db4b5983622117&oe=5565C3FC&__gda__=1428518530_43ed3f951ceb9c7855d067dca6c47c1 b

as you can see the guy in first pic in OP is not possible among Sikhs... n to be honest we don't like those type of looks Caucasoid or not ... we better be australoid if we look like the way we Sikhs are .. .

[TommyT]

Both in equal but I am much much more familiar with the first type. I've even dated Desi girls with green eyes and knew one with loads of freckles and brown hair.

[Tooting Carmen]

Don't forget to vote everyone.

[TommyT]

Don't forget to vote everyone.

Also these are the people I think about when I hear "Asian", then the mongoloid sinid etc... Its a big continent but these people come to my mind first.

[Ctwentysevenj]

Both.

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Kamal900]

The first one look more Pakistan while the second look more Malyali or Tamil indian.

[Tooting Carmen]

The first one look more Pakistan while the second look more Malyali or Tamil indian.

I think a lot of Pakistanis look like a Persian-South Asian hybrid rather than "truly" South Asian as such.

[Kamal900]

I think a lot of Pakistanis look like a Persian-South Asian hybrid rather than "truly" South Asian as such.

Yeah, its most probably because there arent any dravidians living in Pakistan as much as in India where they make up around 30 percent of the total indian population. Dont forget, there are plenty of Pashtun and Balochi people living in the country.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yeah, its most probably because there arent any dravidians living in Pakistan as much as in India where they make up around 30 percent of the total indian population. Dont forget, there are plenty of Pashtun and Balochi people living in the country.

But Riz Ahmed is ethnically Indian, not Pashtun or Balochi, yet he and quite a few other Pakistanis (though NOT the majority) do look like that.

[Kamal900]

But Riz Ahmed is ethnically Punjabi, not Pashtun and Balochi, yet he and quite a few others (though NOT the majority) do look like that.

Then im guessing that Punjabis are like the ones jatt posted because most Indians in the UAE are southern Indians and we dont have much northern Indians here, but we do have a lot of Pakistanis who mostly ethnic Punjabis and 30 percent of them are pashtun in this country.

[lyllo]

Patel. I think of them mostly as Australoid admixed.

[Berlin88]

Riz Ahmed is not a Punjabi. He is a high-caste Muslim from UP (Muhajirs), and those guys are the ones coming out with West Asian ancestry.
Also, Pakistanis, including the supremely white-looking Burusho and Kalash, are not Persian-Indian hybrids not even on genes. On PCA plots, Pakistanis are closer to Indians than to Iranians.
Iranians on dna tests barely get a relationship with the Balochs.

[Lafaur]

Riz Ahmed looks like a mexican mestizo

[jatt]

Riz Ahmed is not a Punjabi. He is a high-caste Muslim from UP (Muhajirs), and those guys are the ones coming out with West Asian ancestry.
Also, Pakistanis, including the supremely white-looking Burusho and Kalash, are not Persian-Indian hybrids not even on genes. On PCA plots, Pakistanis are closer to Indians than to Iranians.
Iranians on dna tests barely get a relationship with the Balochs.

he doest look Punjabi.. punabi have different look...real Punjabis are Sikh Punjabis ..

[jatt]

Then im guessing that Punjabis are like the ones jatt posted because most Indians in the UAE are southern Indians and we dont have much northern Indians here, but we do have a lot of Pakistanis who mostly ethnic Punjabis and 30 percent of them are pashtun in this country.

he doest look Punjabi at all.... at least not indian Punjabi... he look Pakistani.

[Berlin88]

Then im guessing that Punjabis are like the ones jatt posted because most Indians in the UAE are southern Indians and we dont have much northern Indians here, but we do have a lot of Pakistanis who mostly ethnic Punjabis and 30 percent of them are pashtun in this country.

Historically, though, the earliest *Indians* to settle in the UAE were the Balochs, sindhis and gujaratis who came as traders some 500 years back, and I know, especially in Muscat, Oman, many were offered Arab citizenship by the monarchy, so much so that nowadays its hard to spot that they're indian by appearance because a process called 'Omanisation' happened. The most famous of the lot have to be the Khimjis http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Worlds-only-Hindu-Sheikh-traces-his-roots-to-Gujarat/articleshow/19995680.cms

But anyway, not even the average North indian looks like Riz Ahmed, sure, his skin pigmentation is found there but its still not the most common one. North Indians centered around UP are several shades darker in India, and as you go north-west towards Rajastan and Pakistani Sindh, they can get as dark as east africans. In the West, south Asians are lighter pigmented because of living in Europe and America, but Riz Ahmed types are identified more with Muslims.

Anyway, I find all this race-talk amusing because the only south Asians with west Asian relationships (in any measurable degree) are the stereotypically dark and swarthy Balochs, and a small minority of South Asian Muslims from both India and Pakistan, from a wide range of ethnics spanning from Kerala to UP to Bengal. Even the average Sindhi, Punjabi and Kashmiri is more native to SA.

[Berlin88]

Yeah, I totally agree. Sikhs just have a different look about them whether they are light or dark. Riz Ahmed is more like a representative of the elite Muhajirs of Pakistan.

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[jatt]

Berlin DuDe this Ruiz Ahmed guY Mayb Special For U But I m Sure there r plenty better than him In pakistan He wouldT Been a model in Pakistan

[dude]

The second dude looks stereotypical Indian.

[Highlands]

Historically, though, the earliest *Indians* to settle in the UAE were the Balochs, sindhis and gujaratis who came as traders some 500 years back, and I know, especially in Muscat, Oman, many were offered Arab citizenship by the monarchy, so much so that nowadays its hard to spot that they're indian by appearance because a process called 'Omanisation' happened. The most famous of the lot have to be the Khimjis http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Worlds-only-Hindu-Sheikh-traces-his-roots-to-Gujarat/articleshow/19995680.cms

But anyway, not even the average North indian looks like Riz Ahmed, sure, his skin pigmentation is found there but its still not the most common one. North Indians centered around UP are several shades darker in India, and as you go north-west towards Rajastan and Pakistani Sindh, they can get as dark as east africans. In the West, south Asians are lighter pigmented because of living in Europe and America, but Riz Ahmed types are identified more with Muslims.

Anyway, I find all this race-talk amusing because the only south Asians with west Asian relationships (in any measurable degree) are the stereotypically dark and swarthy Balochs, and a small minority of South Asian Muslims from both India and Pakistan, from a wide range of ethnics spanning from Kerala to UP to Bengal. Even the average Sindhi, Punjabi and Kashmiri is more native to SA.

I believe the closest to West Asians (Iranians) are Makrani ?
I know that Baloch and Kalash have a lot of ANE (Ancestral North Eurasian) or "Caucasus-Gedrosia" which pulls them towards the Caucasus.
Riz Ahmed looks South-central Asian to me and can easily pass in West Asia. (although West Asians should confirm).

[Roy]

The first one looks Northern Indian or Pakistani, the second one Tamil or South Indian. Both may spring to my mind, so it's difficult to decide. More common is second variant though from my experience.

[jatt]

http://e2.365dm.com/13/07/768x576/ravi-bopara-england-ashes-profile-essex_2967882.jpg?20130704142858 This cricketer represent North indid. Pakistani don't have this look

[gupshup]

Hi All,

This is how indigenous Pakistani look like. Pic of me below. The above came after us and settled along with river banks.

http://i58.tinypic.com/98esdk.jpg

[gupshup]

http://e2.365dm.com/13/07/768x576/ravi-bopara-england-ashes-profile-essex_2967882.jpg?20130704142858 This cricketer represent North indid. Pakistani don't have this look
These short nose of the indian man u posted above are dravidians?

[jatt]

What Abt Ur nose dude. ThAts vedodId

[Demhat]

I believe the closest to West Asians (Iranians) are Makrani ?
I know that Baloch and Kalash have a lot of ANE (Ancestral North Eurasian) or "Caucasus-Gedrosia" which pulls them towards the Caucasus.
Riz Ahmed looks South-central Asian to me and can easily pass in West Asia. (although West Asians should confirm).


Makrani are the "most" SSA Balochi.

Balochi and Brahui are basically the same Baloch people just that the letter adopted a Dravidian language.

[gupshup]

What Abt Ur nose dude. ThAts vedodId

Just to show you what vedodid nose is :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Veddah_Man.jpg

[gupshup]

What Abt Ur nose dude. ThAts vedodId

Have a look again !
http://i58.tinypic.com/2eaj8zo.jpg

[Mortimer]

both i think, and both could be gypsies

[Mortimer]

Caucasoid-Australoid mix, like most Indians and many Pakistanis.

he isnt australoid mix he is indobrachid and average indian and caucasoid dont say that indians are australoid mix only some are

[Mortimer]

both are obviously indian and average indian the difference is like between a hallstatt nordid and a gorid/alpignid/baltpignid the second is broader faced and more round, he is indobrachid the first ist indid gracile both are normal indians, to point out the differences is silly and only a euro could do

[gupshup]

both are obviously indian and average indian the difference is like between a hallstatt nordid and a gorid/alpignid/baltpignid the second is broader faced and more round, he is indobrachid the first ist indid gracile both are normal indians, to point out the differences is silly and only a euro could do

I think u r very right.

[jatt]

Have a look again !
http://i58.tinypic.com/2eaj8zo.jpg
From
THiS aNgLe Looks Arabid hook type. NeverMind

[Mortimer]

From
THiS aNgLe Looks Arabid hook type. NeverMind

indians can have a hook type nose deniker wrote it as indo-afghan type, but they can have convex or hook noses, remember the guy most classified as part armenoid? the bollywood actor he was dinarised nordindid and normal indian, also my mum has a slight convex nose and some said she is part dinarid which is wrong of course. people have very false portrayals of indians.

[gupshup]

From
THiS aNgLe Looks Arabid hook type. NeverMind

Paa jee I am jatt too but from other side of the border.!

[Mortimer]

Paa jee I am jatt too but from other side of the border.!

welcome new punjabi/indian/jatt bro

[gupshup]

welcome new punjabi/indian/jatt bro

Thank you sir!

[jatt]

TheSe Fucking Europeans Need To look in mirror first then cAll others australoid Anyone wHo doesn't lookk AlbINo is australoid to them

[Mortimer]

TheSe Fucking Europeans Need To look in mirror first then cAll others australoid Anyone wHo doesn't lookk AlbOmo is australoid to them

i agree, look at some europeans with their fat pig noses etc. every indian who doesnt have a narrow nose like a pencil is australoid to them, nothing australoid about this guy

[gupshup]

TheSe Fucking Europeans Need To look in mirror first then cAll others australoid Anyone wHo doesn't lookk AlbOmo is australoid to them


i agree, look at some europeans with their fat pig noses etc. every indian who doesnt have a narrow nose like a pencil is australoid to them, nothing australoid about this guy

Its a war of noses and in the end who has the biggest one wins!:)

[jatt]

Paa jee I am jatt too but from other side of the border.!

WelCome At last tHeRe is aNotHer jatt in forum

[armenianbodyhair]

First one looks like an Afgan guy I know.

[Shah-Jehan]

for me, thinking of Pakistani, I'd think the first guy and thinking of general Indian, I'd think the second guy...but both are super-diverse countries and almost impossible to be labelled with a standard phenotype.

bangladesh, on the other hand is the only homogeneous nation in South Asia where 98% are Bengali.

[Mortimer]

for me, thinking of Pakistani, I'd think the first guy and thinking of general Indian, I'd think the second guy...but both are super-diverse countries and almost impossible to be labelled with a standard phenotype.

bangladesh, on the other hand is the only homogeneous nation in South Asia where 98% are Bengali.

sounds as if you think those two guys belong to different "races" lol bangladesh being a homogenous nation lol do they all look like copies from eatch other?
edit: some people are short some tall some have narrow shoulders or broad, some have hooked noses or straight some have a narrow nose and some have round noses etc. its like everywhere else also skin colour can vary it does in all races, within reason of course

[Shah-Jehan]

sounds as if you think those two guys belong to different "races" lol bangladesh being a homogenous nation lol

when did I say that? Pakistan is located at the Northwestern portion of Southern Asia and geographically, it would make sense for them to be lighter than general "Indian" which spans from the Indus to Assam, while Indians from Gujarat, Punjab, Kashmir etc are very similar to those in Pakistan.

Well, Bangladesh as a nation and it's identity is homogeneous, there are several "dialects" that are considered Bengali, but are mutually unintelligible to it like Chittagonian (which I can speak and its my maternal native language), Sylheti, Rajbanshi/Rangpuri etc, but all of these speakers of the languages are still labelled "Bengali" because they define themselves as such just like how different dialect speaking Chinese people are still Chinese.

Therefore, the nation consisting of 98% Bengali people is pretty homogeneous to me, even though there are 60+ other ethnic groups in there...although in terms of homogeneity, it would rank lower than say Korea and Japan, but are still very homogeneous for world standards.

[Mortimer]

when did I say that? Pakistan is located at the Northwestern portion of Southern Asia and geographically, it would make sense for them to be lighter than general "Indian" which spans from the Indus to Assam, while Indians from Gujarat, Punjab, Kashmir etc are very similar to those in Pakistan.

Well, Bangladesh as a nation and it's identity is homogeneous, there are several "dialects" that are considered Bengali, but are mutually unintelligible to it like Chittagonian (which I can speak and its my maternal native language), Sylheti, Rajbanshi/Rangpuri etc, but all of these speakers of the languages are still labelled "Bengali" because they define themselves as such just like how different dialect speaking Chinese people are still Chinese.

Therefore, the nation consisting of 98% Bengali people is pretty homogeneous to me, even though there are 60+ other ethnic groups in there...although in terms of homogeneity, it would rank lower than say Korea and Japan, but are still very homogeneous for world standards.

maybe indians from southeast or somwhere are very dark but most indians are within reason the same skin colour to me, and i judge like this, both guys could be gypsies and even brothers and they dont have much different skin colour a little bit within reason i dont see them as different both are represantive of india/pakistan i saw once a quiete dark pakistani he worked with me the same company and some eastern euro guys called him ali baba which i thought was racist

[gum_dum]

Both are technically Indians, first one is muhajir which mean Indian migrant to Pakistan. And 2nd one is high caste Indian punjabi, he is not austrolid from what i have seen. First one most likely had central asian ancestry thats why he look different then 2nd one. :)

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

['owight Gavnah]

you cant group pakistan with india imo, they look very different depending on the region. however, riz ahmed looks pakistani and i tend to think of that sort of pheno when a pakistani comes to mind, second one is more on the south indian side. misleading title imo.

[wvwvw]

When I think of Indians I think of Ghandi :eek:

[spanish catalan]

second

[alpha]

facial features of first guy + pigmentation of 2nd guy

[Berahthraban]

Both, but more the first one

[sql]

first

[Swarthy_Syndicate]

First guy looks Pakistani, the second one looks Indian. Which isn't exactly a surprise considering the names.

Pakis are dark but not too dark. Mainland Indians on the other hand can get super brown

[Latinus]

Both in equal measure. But I think in the collective mindset of westerns, it would be the second option.

[Tooting Carmen]

Both in equal measure. But I think in the collective mindset of westerns, it would be the second option.

Which one would pass (marginally) better in Brazil?

[Latinus]

Which one would pass (marginally) better in Brazil?

Hard to say...

[Rafael Passoni]

The first one.