A Sami forum?

[Loki]

It was suggested that we open a dedicated Sami forum for this interesting and important people of Northern Europe. I think it's a good idea. Anyone would be interested in this? :)

[RoyBatty]

Do they make much use of the Internet? (Pardon my ignorance on the topic)

[poiuytrewq0987]

You're the boss.

[Eldritch]

Do they make much use of the Internet? (Pardon my ignorance on the topic)

No less than anyone else in Scandinavia, Finland and north-west Russia.

[Loki]

Do they make much use of the Internet? (Pardon my ignorance on the topic)

I am pretty sure they do.

[Absinthe]

Definitely! I always wanted to learn more about them :thumbs

[RoyBatty]

No less than anyone else in Scandinavia, Finland and north-west Russia.

Thanks for that. (I have no clue what Sami life is like)

[Electronic God-Man]

We don't have any Sami members though, do we?

[Aramis]

Sami is the new Irish.

[Eldritch]

We don't have any Sami members though, do we?

Don't forget the Elf-Boy. ;)

And there've been one or two half-Lappish Finnish ex-members, if memory serves.

This is just my own opinion, but regional chapters don't necessarily need to be overflowing with activity to justify their existence, methinks.

[Eldritch]

Thanks for that. (I have no clue what Sami life is like)

Sitting in yurts, castrating reindeer bucks with their teeth, slicing each other with double-bladed knives, banging shamanic drums, and drinking their shaman's urine after he's eaten several fly agaric (Amanita muscaria -- the shaman's kidneys remove the poison, but let through the hallucinogenics :thumb001:) !!!

[Absinthe]

Sitting in yurts, castrating reindeer bucks with their teeth, slicing each other with double-bladed knives, banging shamanic drums, and drinking their shaman's urine after he's eaten several fly agaric (Amanita muscaria -- the shaman's kidneys remove the poison, but let through the hallucinogenics :thumb001:) !!!
Sounds like people after my own heart! :love:

[RoyBatty]

Oh vey! :D

[Germanicus]

A great idea Loki, my contribution would be to highlight Sami Bush craft knives if there was sufficient interest?

[The Khagan]

Yeah man, Reindeer antlers get wi-fi.

[Aramis]

Yeah man, Reindeer antlers get wi-fi.

Rather sad if it stays the trend. I wouldn't like to see the Sami people become part of...

http://gacconsultants.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/business-development-consultant-1-21061620_std.jpg

[Eldritch]

Rather sad if it stays the trend. I wouldn't like to see the Sami people become part of...

http://gacconsultants.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/business-development-consultant-1-21061620_std.jpg

Basically, they already are.

[Pallantides]

Majority of Sámi are just like other Scandinavians, only 10% practice Reindeer herding and the traditional lifestyle.




Yeah you see Sámi dress in traditional costumes on certain occasions but so do Norwegians, but nobody seem to think Hallingdøler are trapped in the 19th century.:p
http://img2.custompublish.com/getfile.php/1125528.732.cpdxpuwwdv/0x0/Hallingd%C3%B8ler_300x289.jpg

[Aramis]

Basically, they already are.

R.I.P.

[Pallantides]

R.I.P.

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Saami/skann0004-Kopis.jpg

[SuuT]

Having a Sámi subforum in an European Preservation forum is exactly analagous to having a Native American subforum in an American Preservation forum... follow?

If there were any actual Sámi here, they would be the first to tell everyone how they are not in any way, shape or form European (or Scandinavian) inbetween posts bitching about Nordic land-use policies.

The best we would get are people with some Sámi ancestry who play both sides of the fence of quasi-assimilationism; and/or the under 30 set who have undergone Nordic re-education and flutter-about stoned on pseudo-egalitarianism.


So if everyone is cool with all of that then, well, there you have it, lol - fire away.

[The Ripper]

Having a Sámi subforum in an European Preservation forum is exactly analagous to having a Native American subforum in an American Preservation forum... follow?
Yes, it would seem to make total sense.


If there were any actual Sámi here, they would be the first to tell everyone how they are not in any way, shape or form European (or Scandinavian) inbetween posts bitching about Nordic land-use policies.

The best we would get are people with some Sámi ancestry who play both sides of the fence of quasi-assimilationism; and/or the under 30 set who have undergone Nordic re-education and flutter-about stoned on pseudo-egalitarianism.

As if the Sámis have lesser claim to the land? Wow, you know what happens when you invite Croats, Serbs and Bosnians to the same place? It gets a lot uglier than having Sámi and Swedes in the same place, I can tell you..

I support the forum, if only because it would be nice to have Elfboy post his numerous topics about them in one place. :thumb001:

[Eldritch]

Having a Sámi subforum in an European Preservation forum is exactly analagous to having a Native American subforum in an American Preservation forum... follow?

If there were any actual Sámi here, they would be the first to tell everyone how they are not in any way, shape or form European (or Scandinavian) inbetween posts bitching about Nordic land-use policies.

The best we would get are people with some Sámi ancestry who play both sides of the fence of quasi-assimilationism; and/or the under 30 set who have undergone Nordic re-education and flutter-about stoned on pseudo-egalitarianism.


So if everyone is cool with all of that then, well, there you have it, lol - fire away.

I don't think that analogy works at all. The histories of the Sami and the native American peoples are completely different, as are their current circumstances. Granted, I'm not a Sami and I don't know how they think (Finland is a relatively large country in geographical terms, and I live in the opposite end from them), but in this country at least they already are assimilated into mainstream society, and there's never been any major conflicts between them and Finns.

[Tabiti]

Any of them here?

[Pallantides]

If there were any actual Sámi here, they would be the first to tell everyone how they are not in any way, shape or form European (or Scandinavian)


Actually most Sámi view themselves as indigenous Europeans. :)

[Treffie]

Erm, how long have the Sami been living in Europe? My guess is that they're definitely European enough.:thumb001:

[SuuT]

:confused:

It has nothing to do with land 'claims', nothing to do with whether or not the Sámi are good, bad, or indifferent as people; nothing to do with the capacity for Sámi people to get on with one another or Nordics, nothing to do physical conflicts of any sort. It has everything, however, to do with the idea of respective Nordic countries' Cultural Continuity, and the notion of Preservation, itself. This is about critical thinking.

Such responses, if I'm being honest, are exactly indicative of Nordic re-education, and European re-education more generally: Your first reactions were to assert the 'okay-ness' of the Sámi, or to cite their presence in geographic Europe/Scandinavia, etc., instead of not only what it is that I said, but - by extension - the notion of Preservation as it applies to Nordic Cultural Continuity, as well the Cultural Continuity of the Sámi themselves.

Again, what we would get from real Sámi would be anti-"THE MAN" sort of stuff. The remainder would be byproduct of the very things that I would hope we are for the most against, such as cultural and ethnic assimilation into relative oneness.

The Sámi are 'European' or 'Scandinavian' or 'Finnish' only in the strictist geographic sense. A sense that was and is imposed on them, I might add (which they would also be the first to say).


lol but seriously, I ultimately don't care if there is a Gypsy sub-forum here, either. I just find it mindnumbingly...:icon_ask: ironic.

[SuuT]

Actually most Sámi view themselves as indigenous peoples of the lands now known and referred to as Northern Europe

Fixed.

[Pallantides]

Fight the man!

Geahcca bahtaràiggài biru dáža!

[The Ripper]

:confused:

It has nothing to do with land 'claims', nothing to do with whether or not the Sámi are good, bad, or indifferent as people; nothing to do with the capacity for Sámi people to get on with one another or Nordics, nothing to do physical conflicts of any sort. It has everything, however, to do with the idea of respective Nordic countries' Cultural Continuity, and the notion of Preservation, itself. This is about critical thinking.

Such responses, if I'm being honest, are exactly indicative of Nordic re-education, and European re-education more generally: Your first reactions were to assert the 'okay-ness' of the Sámi, or to cite their presence in geographic Europe/Scandinavia, etc., instead of not only what it is that I said, but - by extension - the notion of Preservation as it applies to Nordic Cultural Continuity, as well the Cultural Continuity of the Sámi themselves.

Again, what we would get from real Sámi would be anti-"THE MAN" sort of stuff. The remainder would be byproduct of the very things that I would hope we are for the most against, such as cultural and ethnic assimilation into relative oneness.

The Sámi are 'European' or 'Scandinavian' or 'Finnish' only in the strictist geographic sense. A sense that was and is imposed on them, I might add (which they would also be the first to say).


lol but seriously, I ultimately don't care if there is a Gypsy sub-forum here, either. I just find it mindnumbingly...:icon_ask: ironic.

Sámis have no agenda, but they are included in the agenda of the cultural marxists - and you are right, the role reserved to them is similar to that of the native Americans in the US, because as we know, cultural marxism became dominant in Europe through American influence. Most White Americans today have been completely re-educated, as has a significant share of Europeans. What are they doing on this forum? What are you and your countrymen doing on this forum? Are you sure you're not just white liberals who want to turn our countries into multiracial hellholes like your "own"?

[SuuT]

lol, Wow. I usually don't respond to people when they get the Crazies, but I think that's the most pathologically presumptuous and confused post I've ever read.

[Beorn]

I ultimately don't care if there is a Gypsy sub-forum here, either.

If the Sami are getting a sub-forum on the basis of their ethnic identity rather than their national identity, then why not? We could also have a Basque sub-forum as well?

[Pallantides]

I did not suggest a Sámi subforum, but I support the idea.:)

[Treffie]

If the Sami are getting a sub-forum on the basis of their ethnic identity rather than their national identity, then why not? We could also have a Basque sub-forum as well?

We also have a Cornwall sub subforum under the UK subforum. ;)

[Beorn]

We also have a Cornwall sub subforum under the UK subforum. ;)

Exactly. I'd forgotten that. Thank you for strengthening my position. :)

[Ibericus]

What is so great about Sami people ? I don't understand

[The Ripper]

lol, Wow. I usually don't respond to people when they get the Crazies, but I think that's the most pathologically presumptuous and confused post I've ever read.

If anyone is being presumptuous, it is you.

It is you who presumes that Sámis automatically accept the role assigned to them by cultural marxists, that they automatically cherish the victimhood they're presented with. That they can't be anything except for "anti-The Man" as you put it. It is The Man that is against us, nationalist Europeans.

If this forum is supposed to be for European preservation, then surely the Sámi are as welcome as anyone.

Why there are Americans here, I often wonder. :coffee:

Arrogant little things.

[vp01]

What is so great about Sami people ? I don't understand
same i can say about a lot of nations :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Sámis have no agenda, but they are included in the agenda of the cultural marxists - and you are right, the role reserved to them is similar to that of the native Americans in the US, because as we know, cultural marxism became dominant in Europe through Jewish influence
FIXED.



If anyone is being presumptuous, it is you.

It is you who presumes that Sámis automatically accept the role assigned to them by cultural marxists, that they automatically cherish the victimhood they're presented with. That they can't be anything except for "anti-The Man" as you put it. It is The Man that is against us, nationalist Europeans.

If this forum is supposed to be for European preservation, then surely the Sámi are as welcome as anyone.

Agreed.

But Riippumaton: the Americans are not to be blamed for this as they are just as much a vessel as we are.

[SuuT]

If the Sami are getting a sub-forum on the basis of their ethnic identity rather than their national identity, then why not? We could also have a Basque sub-forum as well?

Well, Mr. Angel, why not indeed. :icon_ask:... alas, I feel you are not being inclusive enough, however. I see no reason to not have a European Jew subforum as well.


If anyone is being presumptuous, it is you.

It is you who presumes that Sámis automatically accept the role assigned to them by cultural marxists, that they automatically cherish the victimhood they're presented with. That they can't be anything except for "anti-The Man" as you put it. It is The Man that is against us, nationalist Europeans.

I fail to see how any of this rhetorical vitriol applies to the topic.


If this forum is supposed to be for European preservation, then surely the Sámi are as welcome as anyone.

Then so should Basques, Jews and arguably Muslims in x years (amongst others).


Why there are Americans here, I often wonder. :coffee:

Arrogant little things.

You are being presumptuous mostly because that is what is required for the magnitude of tangential reasoning that your words display, and secondarily because you are toeing the same anti-American retardism that apparently can be interjected into any e-conversation whatsoever be it about the Sámi, someone's favourite colour, or how long it takes to make a perfect pancake.

You are confused because your reasoning doesn't indicate that you have a clue as to what is the focus of this thread; you are further confused as I am also a Norwegian citizen who resides in America. None of which matters, of course, to whether or not there ought to be a Sámi subforum, which people who are not confused will recognise.


So what I'm really trying to say is that I'm going to be in Norway June12th through July14th - wanna go fishing?

[Aramis]

If I may suggest to SuuT and Riippumaton, first of to clarify and define the very ideas of The Apricity as they see them, before assigning any definite position to the Sami.

Is it the preservation of sovereign European nations, an European identity - based on common cultural characteristics and values, various ethnic groups situated on the European continent and their respective cultures, etc.

[Eldritch]

:confused:

...

Again, what we would get from real Sámi would be anti-"THE MAN" sort of stuff. The remainder would be byproduct of the very things that I would hope we are for the most against, such as cultural and ethnic assimilation into relative oneness.

So any Sami who doesn't blame his shortcomings on oppression by The Man is not a real Sami.

That's getting a bit too close for confort to the post-colonialist arguments of (white) apologists for any number of challenged minorities (I won't mention any groups by name, but I am sure anyone can think of numerous examples easily ;)).

That would also necessitate that the Sami are somehow excluded, dysfunctional, underachieving or "oppressed", which they are not. I would also bet that they have no time for fabricated victimhood, exoticism or in occupying the position of perpetual "otherness"*. At least I hope not, because that would be a guaranteed formula for failure on the part of future generations of Sami.

[*There, who said reading Edward Said is useless? :D]


The Sámi are 'European' or 'Scandinavian' or 'Finnish' only in the strictist geographic sense. A sense that was and is imposed on them, I might add (which they would also be the first to say).

Possibly, possibly not. Which is why I think it would be a good idea to have a Sami section here, on this forum, for them to define for themselves where they stand on such issues. Or at least, in the absence of any actual Sami posters, have a place for discussions related to them.



lol but seriously, I ultimately don't care if there is a Gypsy sub-forum here, either. I just find it mindnumbingly...:icon_ask: ironic.

I won't bore you with a tirade on how the Sami are more "European" than Gypsies. This is a small, close-knit community with a very limited real-life influence. I guess it just boils down to the "okay-ness" of the Sami as opposed to Gypsies you mentioned. If people want a Sami forum, great, if not, let's forget it and move on.

[Pallantides]

I would also bet that they have no time for fabricated victimhood, exoticism or in occupying the position of perpetual "otherness"*

Speaking of fabricated victimhood, many Norwegians still speak of the '400 year night'(union with Denmark) as something very bad and that Norwegians were oppressed by the Danes.;)


Many like to refer to Norway as "Annerledes landed" wich means we like to view ourselves as very different and unique from other Europeans.

[SuuT]

So any Sami who doesn't blame his shortcomings on oppression by The Man is not a real Sami.

That certainly follows and good on you for pointing out the incompleteness of my line of thought.

What I'm getting at is that, at least in Norway, if one were to speak to the very small number of Sámi that still live an essentially unadulterated Sámi lifestyle, they would be saying pretty much what I am about who is and who is not 'true' Sámi.

Norway was quite militant about getting Sámi to assimilate and for intensely selfish reasons. This is still harbored in the thoughts and sentiments of what I am calling 'real' Sámi.


That would also necessitate that the Sami are somehow excluded, dysfunctional, underachieving or "oppressed", which they are not.

Not anymore, no.

Germans no longer 'oppress' Poles - they still don't like each other. Swedes no longer 'oppress' Finns, but you know as well as I do that most Finns don't care for Swedes. I could rattle-off a hundred of these.


I would also bet that they have no time for fabricated victimhood, exoticism or in occupying the position of perpetual "otherness"*.

None of it was false when it was actually occuring, though.

Resentment and self-made otherness does not follow a timeline, nor does it necessarily indicate "victimhood".


Most self-identifying Sámi have by and large been 'Nordicised'. I see that as a problem.

[Pallantides]

I have some Sami ancestry on my maternal side, thats why I feel the need to stick it to the man now and then!

[The Ripper]

Then so should Basques, Jews and arguably Muslims in x years (amongst others).

So what is this common bond between the Basques, Jews, Muslims and Sámi that makes them fit into this fine category you do not mention? From the perspective of European survival? Basques being Spaniards, Jews being Semites, Muslims being mostly colonists and Sámis being the native inhabitants of Northern Europe?


You are being presumptuous mostly because that is what is required for the magnitude of tangential reasoning that your words display

Because I questioned your labeling of the Sámi as somehow anti-European, when the same could be said for members of any European ethnicity? Presumptuous indeed! My point was that any members could be barred, using the simplistic reasoning you displayed.


and secondarily because you are toeing the same anti-American retardism that apparently can be interjected into any e-conversation whatsoever be it about the Sámi, someone's favourite colour, or how long it takes to make a perfect pancake.

Anti-American retardism? Anti-Americanism is a completely justifiable position to take as a European nationalist, but my point was more to contrast against your comments of Sámis not being suited to an internet forum for European preservation. The same reasoning could be applied to the Germans, it could be applied to the Irish, and it could be applied to the Basques.

[SuuT]

So what is this common bond between the Basques, Jews, Muslims and Sámi that makes them fit into this fine category you do not mention?

The common bond being the slippery slope of allowing groups on a European Preservation forum simply for it being within the geographical confines of Europe proper, regardless of the self-identification of those the peoples, their ethnoreligious affiliations, history, actual culture, and efforts - either past or present - to supplant that which was emerged from the Indoeuropean milieu, either by force, time, assimilation or accident.


Because I questioned your labeling of the Sámi as somehow anti-European,

Quote me.


when the same could be said for members of any European ethnicity?

You still don't understand that the Sámi are not European simply for being some of the earliest inhabitants of the promontory that was named Evropa by the Greeks, which is now used worldwide as an identity heuristic.

[Pallantides]

So what makes these folks(Sámi)
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4396/sofiajannok225.jpg
http://www.jus.uit.no/ansatte/somby/jpg/vill3b.jpg
http://www.abcnyheter.no/files/images/2008-51/gamsten.img_assist_custom.jpg
http://www.samiskhs.no/aimages/May_Synnoeve_Trosten_1262599000.PNG


less European than them(Norwegians)
http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/TV2/archive/00787/Mari-Midtstigen_787658i.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4152/paulhansen.jpg
http://www.nrk.no/contentfile/file/1.1518456!img1518226.jpg
http://kjendis.nekkidblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/pia-tjelta-256x300.jpg

:confused:


I bet you wouldn't be able to tell a Sami apart from a Norwegian on the street in Oslo.

[SuuT]

lol fuuuuuuuuuuuck.......

*Unsubscribed.

[Aramis]

So what makes these folks(Sámi)


I bet you wouldn't be able to tell a Sami apart from a Norwegian on the street in Oslo.

It's not a racial question.

[Jarl]

It was suggested that we open a dedicated Sami forum for this interesting and important people of Northern Europe. I think it's a good idea. Anyone would be interested in this? :)

As much as I would like to have it, I do not think we have the people who would be interested and who could reasonably take care of it. I made a series of posts on Uralics, including Samis, in the "Ethnicities on the verge of extinction" thread. Judging by the general response I do not think a Sami would be feasible in the long run. There are no amateur ethnographists here to sustain it.


Sadly, there seems to be little interest in the main Germanic or Slavic folk groups. The only people here with a bit of a interest in those matters (at least as far as Finnics are concerned) are the Finns.

[Pallantides]

I made a series of posts on Uralics, including Samis, in the "Ethnicities on the verge of extinction" thread. .

That must have been before I joined:confused:




There seem to be very little interest for Norwegian Rock music on the Apricity aswell.:p
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15844

[Loki]

What is so great about Sami people ? I don't understand

Eh? Nobody suggested they were "great". Maybe they are, maybe not. It's irrelevant.

[Svanhild]

The board has no Samis hence I see no reason for a Sami forum. If a real Sami joins and demands a forum for people of his kind it would be different. Truth be told, my interest with respect to Sami matters is rather nonexistent. :wink Following the logic for a Sami forum we could open a forum for other ethnic minorities as well, like the gypsies. I wouldn't want to see this happening. Most Samis live in Norway and the Norwegian forum is a good section for Sami topics. But if there's a majority for a Sami forum without Samis present, why not?

[Grumpy Cat]

Yeah I would not see the need if there are no Samis.

But on the other side of the coin, I would like to learn more about them, so a Sami forum might be useful in that manner.

But I guess you can stick Sami threads in the Scandinavian sections.

[Pallantides]

The board has no Samis hence I see no reason for a Sami forum. If areal Sami joins and demands a forum for people of his kind...it would be different. All I can say is that my interest on Sami matters is rather nonexistent.

You mean that small group who still practice reindeer husbandry while living in lavvos and joiking at the moon, not the hundred thousand other Sami and the thousands of people who have some Sami ancestry?



Do a Norwegian have to play a hardinger fiddle, dance halling and live like this to be a Real Norwegian?
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Norge/sedalenseterArnafjorden.jpg

[Jarl]

Eh? Nobody suggested they were "great". Maybe they are, maybe not. It's irrelevant.

It is definitely a very good subject to study presevation. Sami's legal status varies from country to country, and so does the level of their indigenous culture. I am just not certain whether a whole forum whould be appropriate. Perhaps a thread for a good start should be enough? Something like "European ethnicities on the verge of extinction", but devoted solely to the Samis?

Id be only worried about response. If ppl here can be hardly bothered to post facts on their own culture/regions/folk groups, or that of their most immediate neighbours, then what with the remote Samis, noone really knows much about? Scandinavians here seem to be rather indifferent to the subject. With the exception of Pallantindes.

[Pallantides]

I don't know if the Sami are on the verge of extinction, maybe the Kola Saami, but I think there has never been as many Norwegian Sami as there is now, the number is around 100.000 registered in the Sami census there is probably a lot more if including Norwegians who have Sami ancestry.

[Ibericus]

Actually Samis are much more recent than the rest of Europeans, not older, because of the glacial refuge. The ancestors of Europeans were living in european galcial refuges, while samis were still living in Asia.

[Jarl]

I don't know if the Sami are on the verge of extinction, maybe the Kola Saami, but I think there has never been as many Norwegian Sami as there is now, the number is around 100.000 registered in the Sami census there is probably a lot more if including Norwegians who have Sami ancestry.

There are over 15 different groups of Samis speaking different dialects that are often not mutally intelligible. The ones most immediately endangered are the Pite Sami from Norway.


In the Kola region we got a very recently extinct Akkala, and severely endangered Ter group.


Actually Samis are much more recent than the rest of Europeans, not older, because of the glacial refuge. The ancestors of Europeans were living in european galcial refuges, while samis were still living in Asia.

Or rather the bearers of their proto-Sami Uralic language. Yes. That is a likely hypothesis.

[Pallantides]

Actually Samis are much more recent than the rest of Europeans, not older, because of the glacial refuge. The ancestors of Europeans were living in european galcial refuges, while samis were still living in Asia.

The ancestors of the modern Sami settled in Northern Norway around 10.000-9000 B.C some elements followed the Norwegian coastline while others arrived from the east possibly from the Kola Peninsula and northern Russia.


Their Y-DNA haplogroup distribution is not markedly different from other North European populations:
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/897/ydnahaplogroups.jpg


There are over 15 different groups of Samis speaking different dialects that are often not mutally intelligible. The ones most immediately endangered are the Pite Sami from Norway.

.

I was thinking about Sami people as a unified group not about the languages.

Northern Sami has become like the National language of the Sami.

Northern Sami (Norway, Sweden, Finland): With an estimated 15,000 speakers, this accounts for probably more than 75% of all Sami speakers in 2002.

But a large majority of Sami do not speak any Sami language.

[Jarl]

Well... ok. If you are going to REALLY contribute to a Sami forum/thread/lapdanceclub, then count me in as well :)

[Equinox]

The problem with this thread is that people are inadvertently equating the concept of the West and Western with Europe and European.

The Sami are the former, not the latter.

[Guapo]

They look like native Americans

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Saami_Family_1900.jpg

[Eldritch]

The problem with this thread is that people are inadvertently equating the concept of the West and Western with Europe and European.

The Sami are the former, not the latter.

No offense, but any definition of "Europe" that doesn't include the Sami is very peculiar indeed.

[Pallantides]

They look like native Americans

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Saami_Family_1900.jpg

these two Norwegian chaps also look Amerindian.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/The%20Borgen%20Collection/borgen89.jpghttp://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Lindesnes/lindesnes22.jpg
Does that suddenly mean all Norwegians look like that? ...far from it, they look very exotic and exotic looks can be found in all populations, the majority of Sami don't look like Native Americans or Siberians.:coffee:
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Saami/same19.jpghttp://www.nrksport.no/contentfile/file/1.6205234!f169CropList/img650x367.jpg

[Lulletje Rozewater]

http://meltingtheice.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/saami-exhibition.jpg

http://www.squidoo.com/samisapmi

[Equinox]

No offense, but any definition of "Europe" that doesn't include the Sami is very peculiar indeed.

Okay, granted.

"The Apricity Forum: Cultural & Ethnic European Preservation"

If you think Sami are European due to their presence in Europe, you might as well open up a Turkish section too.

Where ought one draw the line?

[Pallantides]

Okay, granted.

"The Apricity Forum: Cultural & Ethnic European Preservation"

If you think Sami are European due to their presence in Europe, you might as well open up a Turkish section too.

Where ought one draw the line?


The Sami have lived in Northern Europe for atleast 9000 years.
What is it exactly that makes the Sami non-European?:confused:

[Eldritch]

Okay, granted.

"The Apricity Forum: Cultural & Ethnic European Preservation"

If you think Sami are European due to their presence in Europe, you might as well open up a Turkish section too.

Where ought one draw the line?

Europe is a continent, one which Turkey is not on. :shrug:

[Jarl]

Europe is a continent, one which Turkey is not on. :shrug:

Technically it is. Following the same reasoning one should also exclude Russia as primarily Asiatic country. Samis are indeed a genetic outlier in Europe. However, phenotypically they are strongly Europid. Question of the Samis is related to the question of Uralics in general. Also the Volga Finns. There is no clear cut definition of European, so indeed a line should be drawn... somewhere ;)

[Eldritch]

Technically it is. Following the same reasoning one should also exclude Russia as primarily Asiatic country. Samis are indeed a genetic outlier in Europe. However, phenotypically they are strongly Europid. Question of the Samis is related to the question of Uralics in general. Also the Volga Finns. There is no clear cut definition of European, so indeed a line should be drawn... somewhere ;)

Next thing we know we'll have a 19-page thread titled: "Split: ARE TURKS EUROPEAN LOL WTF ?!?". ;)

Anyway, Constantinople/Istanbul is in Europe. Whether it's a Turkish city or not depends largely which side of the Bosphorus you're sitting on, methinks. From this side it is not. :cool:

And the eastern border is usually thought to be in the Urals, I believe.

[Aramis]

Nationalist should care and mind the business of their own nation. That's it.

There are too many members here who adhere some pan-european romantic ideas, yet with dissimilar views on it. Excellent fuel for endless discussions.

[Loki]

Following the same reasoning one should also exclude Russia as primarily Asiatic country. Samis are indeed a genetic outlier in Europe.

Nope, invalid assertion. The VAST majority of Russians live in European Russia, to the West of the Urals. The remainder of the country's vast stretches to the east is very sparsely populated and/or uninhabited.

http://photo.pds.org:5005/pl/content/na/mp/lg/mp000372.gif

[Eldritch]

Nope, invalid assertion. The VAST majority of Russians live in European Russia, to the West of the Urals. The remainder of the country's vast stretches to the east is very sparsely populated and/or uninhabited.
http://photo.pds.org:5005/pl/content/na/mp/lg/mp000372.gif


Yep, and unfortunately those even populations are dwindling. Not that it matters, since it is a fact that Russia is a country that is located on two continents. There's no point in thinking of it as an either/or kind of game.

[Woltlab]

Nobody want the Sami's anyway. Sorry, but all they do is wanting my taxmoney.
If it was not for looney Social Democrats governments in Sweden or Norway, they would have been wiped out culturally since the 50’s. Fuck out to get a job parasite snowman!

Åh gud vad jag hatar sådana här jävla lappar.

[Pallantides]

Åh gud vad jag hatar sådana här jävla lappar.


Ulf stjal en Same kjæresten din eller noe? :D

[Eldritch]

If it was not for looney Social Democrats governments in Sweden or Norway...

You prolly wouldn't be in Sweden either if it wasn't for the Somdems methinks.

[Woltlab]

You prolly wouldn't be in Sweden either if it wasn't for the Somdems methinks.

Finnuit ;)

[Pallantides]

Finnuit ;)

Ulf why are you suddenly Canadian, I thought you were "Swedish"

[Woltlab]

Jag är glad att jag är svensk :)

[Pallantides]

Jag är glad att jag är svensk :)

Ja grattis!

http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/attachments/riding-gear/151325d1248488774-buying-800-helmet-retard-prize.jpg

[Great Dane]

Speaking of fabricated victimhood, many Norwegians still speak of the '400 year night'(union with Denmark) as something very bad and that Norwegians were oppressed by the Danes.;)


400-years of Danish rule were the best thing that happened to Norwegians. ;)

I think the fixation on Lapps by some Scandinavians is similar to that of blond, blueyed White Americans who like to claim they are Cherokee. It is part of the curent multiculural diversity celebration in which everyone wants to claim an exotic ancestry. I don't know any Norwegian-Americans or Swedish-Americans who claim to be part Lapp. It doesn't mean they don't have a distant Lapp ancestor but their families have been wise enough to leave those family skeletons buried and forgotten.

There were no Lapps in Denmark, thank god.

[Eldritch]

There were no Lapps in Denmark, thank god.

Are Inuits from Greenland better?

[The Ripper]

I think the fixation on Lapps by some Scandinavians is similar to that of blond, blueyed White Americans who like to claim they are Cherokee. It is part of the curent multiculural diversity celebration in which everyone wants to claim an exotic ancestry. I don't know any Norwegian-Americans or Swedish-Americans who claim to be part Lapp. It doesn't mean they don't have a distant Lapp ancestor but their families have been wise enough to leave those family skeletons buried and forgotten.

I've never noticed such a fixation.

[Great Dane]

I've never noticed such a fixation.

I get the impression some people here have a fixation on Lapps or Sami if you prefer.


Are Inuits from Greenland better? No, but they are more recent, from the twentieth century. No chance my ancestors who left Denamrk between 1870-1890 had Greenlandish ancestry.

[The Ripper]

I get the impression some people here have a fixation on Lapps or Sami if you prefer.


What do you mean by "fixation"? To me it seems a lot of people here are fixated on one group or another.

[Pallantides]

In Norway people are more fixated with having Tater(Romani) ancestry, Sami and Finnish(Kven and Forest Finns) ancestry is not exactly exotic or extraordinary.






There were no Lapps in Denmark, thank god.

As if that is such a good or bad thing?:rolleyes2:

[hajduk]

Tater(Romani)

Gypsy?

[Pallantides]

Gypsy?

I guess, but the Taters are more mixed and not all of them have Gypsy(Romani) ancestry, but the original Taters were gypsies that came to Norway in the 16th century, their number was very small and there is a clear distinction between them and the Gypsies that come to Norway now.

[Eldritch]

In Norway people are more fixated with having Tater(Romani) ancestry ...



Tater:
http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/blog/mother/archives/tater.jpg


Tatar:
http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Minorities/min-Tatar-2.jpg


Gypsy/Romani:
http://www.romanomissio.fi/tuula_nyman1.jpg


Tatar ≠ Gypsy. ;)

[Pallantides]

Tatere
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatere
http://home.online.no/~reilerts/images/04.jpg

In no way related to 'Tatars'

[Fortis in Arduis]

So Taters are the Norwegian Gypsy diaspora, not something one eats.

Ok.

I think that a Sami forum would be a good.

There seem to be a lot of minorities in north-east Europe that are not widely known of, and I have a cursory interest.

I would imagine that many other people also have an interest.

[Eldritch]

Tatere
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatere
http://home.online.no/~reilerts/images/04.jpg

In no way related to 'Tatars'

My bad.

So Tater ≠ Tatar. Gotcha.

[Majar]

Stop comparing Saami to fucking gypsies. :eusa_naughty:

I doubt any Saami want to join this forum anyway, too many nationalists here. The Saami are traditionally semi-nomad, and semi-nomadic shamanist people don't have a feeling for false man-made political borders of countries that so many here feel are something sacred. Having been victims of Western anthopological studies (imagine having your ancestors bodies displayed in museums as curiosities) I doubt they want to contribute to any sort of revival of racial anthropology which is tainted with 19th century pseudoscience.

It's too bad because I think they might have a lot to teach about preservation.

[Eldritch]

While I appreciate your perspective, Majar, I have to take you to task over this:


... semi-nomadic shamanist people don't have a feeling for false man-made political borders of countries that so many here feel are something sacred.

...

It's too bad because I think they might have a lot to teach about preservation.

I myself can't think of a better way to ensure the preservation of any people than an ethnonationalist state. Country borders may be "man-made", but that doesn't make them false.

[Pallantides]

A majority of Sami are just like any other western average joe, they work nine to five jobs, they go home to watch tv, drink a few beers and yell at their kids.


Many Sami also don't like 'Svartinger'(Niggers) and other immigrants
http://www.nettavisen.no/innenriks/article196827.ece

Same-topp ut mot «svartinger» og homofile




BTW Sami are not semi-nomadic shamanist people anymore, less than 10% practice reindeer herding and most are Lutherans.

[Osweo]

Hang on... Haven't we got this subforum yet? I was just going to make a thread in it... :(
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=232879#post232879