Berdel - a Kurdish tradition known as sister swapping and parallel weddings

[gültekin]

http://www.en.firatajans.com/news/news/berdel-a-kurdish-tradition-known-as-sister-swapping-and-parallel-weddings.htm
Karacadað's women... They are living unaware of women rights, civil law and women liberation. It was like this a hundred years ago, 30 years ago, it is the same today. Although being only 25-30 kilometres away from the city centre, they are far from city life. After turning the age of 14 they wait for being exchanged in a ‘berdel’ marriage by their fathers, brothers or uncles.
 They’ve always seen this; they are living like this... because their mums and aunties married the ‘berdel’ way at this age too. Loving, being loved and marrying is not their but their parents' decision. In the semi-nomadic life lived on the slopes of Karaca, the lord, tribal restraints and feudalism are still their fate.
 In the Kurdish provinces which have been in agenda for honour killings and suicides in the recent months, a truth that everybody has accepted is still carrying on: "Berdel"- women and girls marrying through an exchange. ‘Berdel’ marriages are done (in order) to avoid paying the bonnet money which is around 10-15 thousand TL, and links the fate of four people to each other. If the woman who is married with 'berdel' is not wanted by her husband and divorces, the other woman married with 'berdel' will also have to divorce her husband even if they are happy. Because this is what ‘berdel’ requires ... If the 'exchanged good' is not liked, the buyer can return his 'good' and reclaim its own 'good' back.


95% of the marriages in the village is ‘berdel’


Sarýdal, 15 kilometres away from Diyarbakýr centre, a waterless barren village located in the slopes of Karacadað. Whilst being a hamlet, it split up from the Çanakçý village and gained the village status. In the 350 digit village, more than 95% of the marriages have been done the 'berdel' way. So the young who wants to marry by giving his sister to somebody else, Or the father/uncle, who wants to make his second marriage and is around the age of 50, have made their sisters- daughters-nieces 'berdel'.
In this village as well as in the neighbour ones it is possible to see people who have made two, even three marriages the 'berdel' way. The headman of Sarýdal village, Abdullah Sümer is one of them. He has been the mukhtar of the village for 7 years. By giving his sister Radife and his daughter Semra as ‘berdel’ in 1963, he got himself two wives in return. He gave his other daughter Birgül Sümer as ‘berdel’ to his son.


‘’There isn't enforcement in the ‘berdel’ marriage, everybody does it with their own will’’ says the mukhtar Abdullah Sümer and carries on with explaining that they are continuing with this tradition because it has been maintained for centuries from their ancestors.


Youth against ‘berdel’


We are talking with the mukhtar Sümer in the village square, who gave his sister to his peasant and married with his peasant’s sister in return . Although the headman is telling us that in 'berdel' there isn't any force, the young ones intervene by saying, ‘’No this is not true, I swear they do it by force, nobody wants (is a volunteer) to marry as 'berdel'‘’, this is how they express their reactions to this tradition which they believe should be abandoned. Mukhtar starts to defend himself and tries to get out of the conversation by saying that formerly the marriages used to be done forcibly but now it is not like that, he is also trying to explain that the two 'berdel' marriages he has done were based on feelings.
Mukhtar explains that they do not force girls into marriage if they are unwilling, and that the 'berdel' marriage is only done when four people have agreed to it. More than 95 percent of the marriages in the village are done the 'berdel' way stated the mukhtar Abdullah Sümer, adding that most recently he gave away his daughter Birgül to his uncle as 'berdel'.


’I wish I had not done it’


Marrying as a ‘berdel’ and one of those who regrets it is Hamit Ayaz (20). "I gave my sister and I took a girl from them’’ said Ayaz, who married (with) the ‘berdel’ way. In order not to give bonnet money marrying as 'berdel' is preferred, stated Ayaz, ‘’I accepted it because it has always been like this in the ancient times and it is our tradition’’.

Hamit Ayaz expressed his reaction by saying ‘’However I now regret it. I wish I had not done it; it is not a good thing. This type of marriage links the fate of 4 people. For example if I now divorce my wife, my sister who has been given as ‘berdel’ will have to divorce too. In this sense I see it bad’’
Nagile Sümer is one of the women married with ‘berdel’ in the Sarýgül village. She is 26 years old. 5 years ago she has been made ‘berdel’ to her brother. Nagile explains that she is not against Berdel, "When marriage comes to agenda, they ask us. We forcibly accepted it. Both I and my brother are going to marry. I thought like this and made my decision’’.


Households are brought considering ‘Berdel’


In the Sarýdal village we speak with the elders, women and young girls. They start to explain some of the disadvantages to them of the ‘berdel’ marriage. In a 'berdel' marriage the goods which you can buy for the marriage is limited. When somebody gives his daughter or sister to a 'berdel' marriage, the other side buys the same amount of goods as they have been given. Nothing missing, nothing more. For example if the bride side gives double-bed as the dowry, they give a double-bed too. Or if they have given 2 golden bangles to the bride, the other side buys the same amount of jewellery. Nothing extra, after all in an ‘exchange’ marriage everything should be the same amount.
 In the village we are speaking with young girls who came back from water collecting from the pit which they share with the animals. Most of them are against ‘berdel’ marriages. Because they have loved ones. Its good news if the man they love has got sisters, and then they can become a bride by the ‘berdel’ way to their brothers or father. And this way girls can marry with the man they love. But if the loved one hasn’t got a sister to ‘swap’ then things get harder. There is only one cure left for the man. He is either going to pay bonnet money or kidnap the girl he loves. Of course the abduction doesn’t end with a peace meal…


16 year-old Cana remains silent


In the village, we are trying to speak with a 16 year-old young girl Cana who is shy and afraid. A typical Kurdish girl. She is trying to hide her black eyes from us. First she doesn’t want to talk. We ask her about ‘Berdel’ marriages. She tells us that she is against it. When we ask her ‘’Well if your father or your brother forces you into ‘berdel’ marriage, what will your reaction be?’’ she remains silent.
Girls who are living unaware of their own rights and laws being introduced about them, seems like bonnet money and backward marriages will become their fate until their parents or somebody warns them about their rights.


[gültekin]

Young couple victims of suspected honor killing
http://cdncms.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/2015/02/02/203861_newsdetail.jpg
http://www.todayszaman.com/national_young-couple-victims-of-suspected-honor-killing_371539.html



A group of people believed to be the relatives of a woman named Ceylan İnal (19) attacked İnal and her boyfriend, Hamdullah Ayaydın (25), with knives on Sunday, leaving İnal severely wounded and Ayaydın dead, at a bus terminal located in Istanbul's Esenler district.

The young couple's relationship was not approved of by İnal's family, increasing the likelihood that the assailants were relatives of İnal.

Four assailants first attacked Ayaydın as he got off a bus, then stabbed İnal numerous times. The assailants fled the bus station but left the knives at the scene of the crime.

Paramedics administered CPR to Ayaydın after his heart stopped beating.

He was rushed to Bayrampaşa State Hospital but did not respond to treatment and died from a loss of blood.

İnal is receiving treatment at the Haseki Teaching and Research Hospital, but she remains in critical condition.

Bystanders reported that Ayaydın was saying “my love” to his girlfriend before he lost consciousness, while the medical team tended to the couple.

The bystanders, who labeled the incident “terrifying,” also said the victims received many stab wounds while they were lying on the ground.

Before the incident, İnal's father reportedly went to the Mardin Police Department after he learned that his daughter had gone to İstanbul with her boyfriend, claiming that she had been kidnapped.

The police have launched an investigation to find the assailants.

[Musso]

What happens in the Islamic State, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan is much worse.

[gültekin]

What happens in the Islamic State, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan is much worse.
same thing, Kurds have the same "Family Councils' a tribal tradition. in so called Councills they decide to kill or berdel and some other things.

[Musso]

same thing, Kurds have the same "Family Councils' a tribal tradition. in so called Councills they decide to kill or berdel and some other things.

Well it's terrible, but some people in many of these societies follow backward customs to this day.

[Azamat]

When Kurds perform honour killings in connection to adultery or other marriage-related events, we're primitive and backward for it. When Europeans commit murders in connection to those same situations, it's a "crime of passion", and until recently the perpetrators were even acquitted in some countries' courts on that basis.

I don't think our honour killings are bad in principle, just applied to the wrong situations. Let girls have boyfriends, sex before marriage, dress in a provocative way, etc. But Kurds of both sexes deserve to be killed by their community if they sleep with Turks, black Africans or other undesirable races.

I believe we can keep this tradition and change it into something good.

[gültekin]

When Kurds perform honour killings in connection to adultery or other marriage-related events, we're primitive and backward for it. When Europeans commit murders in connection to those same situations, it's a "crime of passion", and until recently the perpetrators were even acquitted in some countries' courts on that basis.
sorry but the difference is Europeans have not such "Family Councils" and law for killing like Kurd's....

[Azamat]

sorry but the difference is Europeans have not such "Family Councils" and law for killing like Kurd's....The victim will still die in either case, with or without a "family council".

If premeditation matters to you so much, you have the morality of a slave. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%93slave_morality)

[klarji]

Honor killing or something like this had every ethnos
When Kurds become more developed they will forget it
I don't think that is the reason why Kurds have no right to have independent state

PS if I had a daughter and she had beloved I would send her to a convent

[Musso]

Honor killing or something like this had every ethnos
When Kurds become more developed they will forget it
I don't think that is the reason why Kurds have no right to have independent state

PS if I had a daughter and she had beloved I would send her to a convent

I think Turks are angry about this because since Kurds live in their country,,,the honor killings are labelled as 'honor killings in Turkey' which defames their country's name.

[StonyArabia]

Arab Bedouins have no such element in their culture. I don't think it's Islamic related to, though it might be found in the Oriental world in various forms.

[Azamat]

I think Turks are angry about this because since Kurds live in their country,,,the honor killings are labelled as 'honor killings in Turkey' which defames their country's name.Or in other words, they choose to occupy another ethnic group's homeland but whine about unintended consequences.

[gültekin]

Or in other words, they choose to occupy another ethnic group's homeland but whine about unintended consequences.
xD
is there any "Christian Kurds" in world that you can show? before 1071 Manzikert was Anatolia an christian territory you know

[Musso]

xD
is there any "Christian Kurds" in world that you can show? before 1071 Manzikert was Anatolia an christian territory you know


From 884–1045, the Bagratid Kingdom of Armenia ruled those lands independently,,,before that was the Kingdom of Armenia, which was more expansive:

Standard of the Bagratid Dynasty, 861–1118:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Bagratuni_flag.svg/125px-Bagratuni_flag.svg.png
Bagratuni Armenia circa 1000:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d1/Bagratuni_Armenia_1000-en.svg/800px-Bagratuni_Armenia_1000-en.svg.png

[Hadouken]

such shit comes mostly from southeast places like Mardin ....very different to my homeprovince and surrounding thank god so I beg to differ ....I know you are on "lets troll kurds today" mood but believe me that in Tunceli , Malatya , Erzincan etc. you will find such things only in very small numbers if any

they should get rid of certain traditions in the southeast but not all of them are like that either so you cant speak of all of them

[Azamat]

xD
is there any "Christian Kurds" in world that you can show? before 1071 Manzikert was Anatolia an christian territory you knowKurds ruled in Southeast Anatolia at least 80 years before that, as described by none other than a Turkish historian:

http://i.imgur.com/5ZYF2IU.jpg

https://books.google.nl/books?id=vEAu4L1oz_4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Kurdish+Notables+and+the+Ottoman+State:+Evolvin g+Identities,+Competing&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=TkTSVKe0GMytUczFg8AC&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Kurdish%20Notables%20and%20the%20Ottoman%20State %3A%20Evolving%20Identities%2C%20Competing&f=false

[gültekin]

such shit comes mostly from southeast places like Mardin ....very different to my homeprovince and surrounding thank god so I beg to differ ....I know you are on "lets troll kurds today" mood but believe me that in Tunceli , Malatya , Erzincan etc. you will find such things only in very small numbers if any

they should get rid of certain traditions in the southeast but not all of them are like that either so you cant speak of all of them
you are an Zaza and Alevi,so this case is not associated with your people
ayrıca bana değil, öbür götlere söyleyecksin, yırtık dondan çıkar gibi her konuya sıvanıyorlar. beni buna zorladılar

[Hadouken]

you are an Zaza and Alevi,so this case is not associated with your people

I am 3/8 zaza to be precise :old

but thats not the point because even though I agree with you that there are some fucked up things coming from the southeast we can not talk about all of them because not all of them are like that

it is actually amazing how kurds are so different from place to place ...thats what I realized

[Pahli]

I think you should stop pointing fingers and look at your own flaws, Turks aren't much better themselves :)

[gültekin]

I think you should stop pointing fingers and look at your own flaws, Turks aren't much better themselves :)
some Kurmanchis with Turkish passport. yeah this works :thumb001:

[Hadouken]

some Kurmanchis with Turkish passport. yeah this works :thumb001:

hey nothing against Kurmanchis ..the rest of my ethnicity is Kurmanchi :D

but no you are wrong there are also Turks who do such stuff

[gültekin]

hey nothing against Kurmanchis ..the rest of my ethnicity is Kurmanchi :D

but no you are wrong there are also Turks who do such stuff
"familly council" ?

[Hadouken]

"familly council" ?

http://garotasgeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/wat-meme.jpg

[gültekin]

"family council" aka aile meclisi

[Hadouken]

never heard of that

dont know what that is

[gültekin]

never heard of that

dont know what that is
realy interesting
there is also Laws against that, but that couldn't stop that so called "familly councils" crimes http://www.hukuki.net/archive/index.php?t-43969.html

Yargıtay 1. Ceza Dairesi, töre cinayetlerinde "aile meclisi kararı' alınmış olmasını şart koştu. Yargıtay'ın bu kararına göre, "aile meclisi'nin verdiği karar sonrası cinayet işlendiği ispatlanmazsa sanıklar "töre' suçundan hüküm giymeyecek ve daha az ceza alacaklar.

[Longbowman]

When Kurds perform honour killings in connection to adultery or other marriage-related events, we're primitive and backward for it. When Europeans commit murders in connection to those same situations, it's a "crime of passion", and until recently the perpetrators were even acquitted in some countries' courts on that basis.

I don't think our honour killings are bad in principle, just applied to the wrong situations. Let girls have boyfriends, sex before marriage, dress in a provocative way, etc. But Kurds of both sexes deserve to be killed by their community if they sleep with Turks, black Africans or other undesirable races.

I believe we can keep this tradition and change it into something good.

What a horrible thing to say. If you want to be barbaric savages, fine, but don't tell us what we are. First, killing your daughter isn't a 'crime of passion,' killing your cheating husband is and you'd still go to prison and it's not socially acceptable. Don't you dare equate us with your vile, primitive ways. Even advocating what you advocated (killing girls for marrying Turks) could get you arrested in my homeland and no one would shed a tear, either. You deserve to be in prison.

Second, I choose to believe you are not normal for a Kurd, and that most Kurds are nice people who wouldn't kill their daughters for such a slight.

[Azamat]

First, killing your daughter isn't a 'crime of passion,' killing your cheating husband is andI don't care who perpetrates the murder, the result is the same. The morality of an action should be weighed on its consequences first, intentions second. Like Gultekin, you invoke irrelevant distinctions to escape the implication that honour killings are no more unethical than any murders that occur in all societies.


you'd still go to prisonYou asked for it.
Until a few decades ago, murders of women by their partners were treated as crimes of passion in Italy. Perpetrators were often acquitted.http://www.npr.org/2012/11/23/165658673/italian-women-call-for-action-against-femicide

This is consistent with my claim.


and it's not socially acceptable.If crimes of passion were not any more acceptable than honour killings over superficial distinctions, you would not be getting so butthurt when I compare the two.

As for my statement that offended you so much, I stand by it. I'm sorry that your ancestry field covers no less than three lines, which is a fate I want to prevent for my people.

It's easy for you to condemn my 'extreme' ideas, from the comfort of your infallible Western civilization which you never have to defend. You have no clue what survival means and entails for a people such as mine, who have no state to call their own, who must grovel before the world to progress even an inch, and are defamed on a constant basis such as in this very thread. Thank god you're an insignificant blot whom we don't need to listen to.

[Longbowman]

I don't care who perpetrates the murder, the result is the same. The morality of an action should be weighed on its consequences first, intentions second. Like Gultekin, you invoke irrelevant distinctions to escape the implication that honour killings are no more unethical than any murders that occur in all societies.

No, utter and complete apologist bullshit. First, and most importantly, we both hate the murders. You, on the other hand, defend them, because you're a piece of shit. But a crime of passion is one done in the spur of the moment, because you've been betrayed, not because you can't control a human being, albeit your daughter, anymore.


You asked for it.http://www.npr.org/2012/11/23/165658673/italian-women-call-for-action-against-femicide

I guess you're new. I'm British, I just live in Italy. But, the situation here is quite similar. As you yourself write, until a few decades ago. Ie, not anymore. Capisce, idiot? If the Kurds stopped today we would have no problem tomorrow.


This is consistent with my claim.

Not unless your claim is historic.


If crimes of passion were not any more acceptable than honour killings over superficial distinctions, you would not be getting so butthurt when I compare the two.

What a shit argument. It's a shame to see a foreigner who can actually spell resorting to 'you're wrong because you're angry.' Pathetic.


As for my statement that offended you so much, I stand by it. I'm sorry that your ethnicity field covers no less than three lines, which is a fate I want to prevent for my people.

I'd rather be a hundred thousand lines than be part of a group that does what the OP said they do. How dare you defend murder on the grounds of a concept as abstract and frankly fallacious as racial purity? You're a disgusting, pathetic human being.


It's easy for you to condemn my 'extreme' ideas, from the comfort of your infallible Western civilization which you never have to defend. You have no clue what survival means and entails for a people such as mine, who have no state to call their own, who must grovel before the world to progress even an inch, and are defamed on a constant basis such as in this very thread. Thank god you're an insignificant blot whom we don't need to listen to.

You don't need to listen to me, singular, but hey, you seem to be living in the West, hypocrite. I know that most Kurds don't do this but if every Kurd did it would be better that they were wiped out, slaughtered humanely, than allowed to continue. You don't get to stab people for daring to leave your isolated little inbred communities. And get the hell out of the West if you genuinely believe you can. Go back to Turkey and let them deal with you.

[Azamat]

But a crime of passion is one done in the spur of the moment, because you've been betrayed, not because you can't control a human being, albeit your daughter, anymore.You insist on that distinction conferring an ethical difference between their equally murderous consequences, yet you have the nerve to accuse me of being an apologist?


Not unless your claim is historic.It is historic, and I don't see why that should invalidate it. One of the murderers whom the courts of some Western countries were so happy to acquit out of a bleeding heart sympathy for the whims of the perpetrator may have killed your mother or grandmother.

If the Kurds stopped today we would have no problem tomorrow.Rubbish. You only say that to undermine my comparison of honour killings with past leniency toward crimes of passion in the West. The likes of you are still happy to fling feces at Kurds for our involvement in massacres which happened over a fucking century ago, for christ's sake.

How dare you defend murder on the grounds of a concept as abstract and frankly fallacious as racial purity?Heterogenous societies have higher rates of crime and instability because kin selection disposes humans to selfishness and distrust in the presence of genetically distant people(including members of your ethnic group who look visibly different, signaling genetic distance). There can be no more humane measure than preventing admixture.

I know that most Kurds don't do this but if every Kurd did it would be better that they were wiped out, slaughtered humanely, than allowed to continue. You don't get to stab people for daring to leave your isolated little inbred communities. And get the hell out of the West if you genuinely believe you can. Go back to Turkey and let them deal with you. You can't hurt our feelings, even if your life depended on it. Verbal trash like this is just our daily routine, and the thick skin that results and which repulses you so much is something you will never understand. But you do perpetuate it, I'll give you that.

[Longbowman]

You insist on that distinction conferring an ethical difference between their equally murderous consequences, yet you have the nerve to accuse me of being an apologist?

Yep. It is accepted in society that killing is not always bad. We (well. The Yanks and Arabs) execute criminals, for instance. Circumstances are always important. To torture a child to death for sexual pleasure is worse than collateral whilst being negligent with a chainsaw. Obviously.


It is historic, and I don't see why that should invalidate it. One of the murderers whom the courts of some Western countries were so happy to acquit out of a bleeding heart sympathy for the whims of the perpetrator may have killed your mother or grandmother.

No longer happens, doesn't matter. Or at least it's not the same problem anymore.


Rubbish. You only say that to undermine my comparison of honour killings with past leniency toward crimes of passion in the West. The likes of you are still happy to fling feces at Kurds for our involvement in massacres which happened over a fucking century ago, for christ's sake.

What massacres? I'm pro-Kurd. I even took 100 thumbs down for defending you guys on a thread I made about Kobani. You just have a martyr complex. Stop projecting.

Here's the thing: even if I ate five children a day, what you're doing is still wrong. So stop saying 'you do it too' even though even you have now admitted we don't and focus on the error that's being pointed out.


Heterogenous societies have higher rates of crime and instability because kin selection disposes humans to selfishness and distrust in the presence of genetically distant people(including members of your ethnic group who look visibly different, signaling genetic distance). There can be no more humane measure than preventing admixture.

Hard eye-roll and a point towards Kuru.

Besides, they're not bringing people into the group, they're choosing to leave, and you're killing them. You gain nothing by doing so. Vile, uneducated people.


You can't hurt our feelings, even if your life depended on it. Verbal trash like this is just our daily routine, and the thick skin that results and which repulses you so much is something you will never understand. But you do perpetuate it, I'll give you that.

Even your fellow Kurds on this thread think you're an arsehole. And they're right.

[gültekin]

Kurdish family composition is also based over Polygamy, which triggers a lot of problems, such Berdel etc.


http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/polygamy-widespread-turkey-study-news-501454
Polygamy is particularly common in the Kurdish south-east, where second wives are married in religious or cultural ceremonies and thus have little legal protection, the study claims.

It found that men in polygamous marriages often seek a second wife if the first one is unable to bear them a child, particularly a male one, Turkish daily Hürriyet reported.

[gültekin]

seems that comment belongs also here



- Most of the rapists, thieves, drug dealers, terrorists etc in jails are Kurds. I can easily say that it is your kind who are filling our prisons and jails.

- Kurds were so ugly that the Ottomans didn't allow them to enter İstanbul. No, it's not a joke. http://dergiler.ankara.edu.tr/dergiler/18/29/209.pdf
"Sehirde geçici olarak bulunan ve çalışan bekâr uşakları bir bir tesbit edilip kefilleriyle beraber mahkemece kayıt altına alınacaktı. elinde mürur tezkeresi olmayanlar şehre giremeyecekti. mürur tezkereleri herkesin kendi memleketinden alınacak ve bunlara istanbul’a ne iş için geldikleri yazılacaktı. Rumeli’den gelenler Küçükçekmece’den, Anadolu’dan gelenler de Bostancıbaşı köprüsünden ancak şehre girebilecekti. Şehrin iki uç hududu dışındaki yollardan şehre girenler mürur tezkereleri olsa da cezalandırılacaktı. Şekli şemâili uygun olmayan, “yüzünde meymenet bulunmayan”, şüphe uyandıranların tezkeresine bu husus şifreyle işlenir, tahkiki ihtisab ağalığı’nca yapılarak gerekirse o kimse şehre alınmazdı. o zamanlar dağlık bölgelerden gelen arnavut ve kürtler, inzibat bakımından şehre sokulmayacaktı.

- It is well known fact that most of the transvestites in İstanbul are originally from Southeast Anatolia. There is even a movie about it. They are so fucking disgusting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Saw_the_Sun


- Kurdish scum with molotovs don't hesitate to target buses, public service vehicles, schools, random civilians etc.
Serap Eser died in 2009 after a Molotov cocktail attack
http://i.milliyet.com.tr/YeniAnaResim/2013/05/23/fft99_mf3311600.Jpeg


- The so-called "honor killings in Turkey" are practiced by Kurds, and the EU takes it as a "Turkey thing" unfortunately. Kurds rape their cousins, daughters, aunts etc. and then they decide to kill the poor girl/woman. Dat logic.


- Female circumcision is still quite common among Kurds, and Africans. They can't stop practicing this shit even in the 21th century.
http://pic.dailyqd.com/uploadfiles/hw/health/img/attachement/jpg/site3/20141029/94de80a9ad8f15baa09d01.jpg


- Kurds in İstanbul are one of the most disgusting creatures the world has ever seen. A group of Kurdish sons of bitches in İstanbul (sexually) harrasssing an old man. Look how happy they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nnz_Nedgjg


- Kurds rape not only kids or women. They also rape old men (yes, old men) while filming it. Kurdish members know what I'm talking about. I'm not gonna post that video here.


- If you visit the most tourist-attracting areas in Turkey (historical peninsula-Taksim/Istanbul, hotels in Aegea/Meditterenean etc) you will realize that you are surrounded by these kind of creatures. Don't worry; they are Kurds and they just want to sexually harrass you, or rape you at most.

http://galeri7.uludagsozluk.com/217/k%C4%B1ro-vs-apa%C3%A7i-vs-barzo_303061.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/q4Ep7R.jpg (http://hizliresim.com/q4Ep7R)


- Don't you tourists dare celebrate new year in Taksim/İstanbul, you will be surrounded by a group of kıro Kurds, gathered to sexually harrass your women (or even you).
http://i.hizliresim.com/Jp3BEn.jpg (http://hizliresim.com/Jp3BEn)



Now you can call it "racism", Demhat the kıro. There is now no difference between your posts and mine.


Me too. I (and most Turks) don't want to live with Kurds either. The sooner they get their independent Kurdistan in the shithole called mesopotamia the sooner we will have the chance to send these animals back to where they came from. I also don't care about about provinces in southeast Anatolia anymore. It is impossible to remove the cancer without cutting off the limb.


.
well said, and here another Kürdish donkeyshit from Hakkari (1:13) who tries to abuse a girl in Trabzon,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZFzx2LFM4E

[Pahli]

...

Funny thing Kurds are more integrated and behave much better than you descendants of mongols do in the rest of Europe, where most crime is done by Türks and not Kurds.

You seem to keep posting the same shit about Kurds when in fact your people aren't much better :)

[gültekin]

Funny thing Kurds are more integrated and behave much better than you descendants of mongols do in the rest of Europe, where most crime is done by Türks and not Kurds.

You seem to keep posting the same shit about Kurds when in fact your people aren't much better :)
do not make a fool of you, but seems you are:), what i said, Kürts with Türkish Passport. such crimes are practiced by Kurds, actually it is simple logic. on the border of Iran living Kürts, not Türks. Kürts smuggling Heroin etc. from Iran, and lugging over Turkey to Europe ,and the EU takes it as a "Turkey thing"
for example, title of this documentary film is "Turkish heroin gangs" wow, but guess how it ended? not surprise, Kürts of course, just the Kürts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EDMwY3ggJ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65FPqOt0INY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFQqTiZ9LDc

[gültekin]

same thing, Kurds have the same "Family Councils' a tribal tradition. in so called Councills they decide to kill or berdel and some other things.
and the "other" things

In Kurdistan, a widowed woman stays with her husband's family. If she is widowed when her children are young, she is obliged to marry her deceased husband's brother. This form of marriage is called levirate. Sororate is another custom: When a man loses his wife before she bears a child or she dies leaving young children, her lineage provides another wife to the man, usually a younger sister with a lowered bride-price. Both levirate and sororate are practiced to guarantee the well being of children and ensure that any inheritance of land will stay within the family.

Read more: Kurdish Families - Kurdish Marriage Patterns - Gender, Family, History, Marriages, and Family - JRank Articles http://family.jrank.org/pages/1026/Kurdish-Families-Kurdish-Marriage-Patterns.html#ixzz3SAdKsQAT

[Wadaad]

I said this before and I'll say it again...Indio-Iranians cannot handle polygamy like Afro-Asiatic people.

[StonyArabia]

I said this before and I'll say it again...Indio-Iranians cannot handle polygamy like Afro-Asiatic

More the reason they should not interfere in our business. This why I believe western Iraq should go to Jordan, Iranic influence has been nothing but negative. We and Jordanians are genetically and culturally very close. I myself 1/16th Howetiat from the Aqaba region.

[Musso]

So if Turks don't like how Kurds live in their area, and obviously can't change them, why don't they just allow for Kurdistan to be independent? Then, you wouldn't worry about what Kurds do, since they wouldn't be in your country.

[gültekin]

So if Turks don't like how Kurds live in their area, and obviously can't change them, why don't they just allow for Kurdistan to be independent? Then, you wouldn't worry about what Kurds do, since they wouldn't be in your country.
independent? why, because they fucking each other and inbreeding like pigs? that is not a way for deserve a own country, maybe only Zoo's, nothing else...

[Alchemysta]

Guys you are so serious sometimes,i just i don't know http://s18.postimg.org/n9puczuph/Jbe_Ejr_D.png

[adsız]

They are mostly uneducated and religiously strictest people. Women have no right in kurdish community.

Ever notice no kurdish girl in forums like TA, ABF etc..? .

Edit: On the contrary of what is thought, many members of ISID are kurdish.

[jatt]

its called badal in Pakistan Afghanistan.

[Pahli]

independent? why, because they fucking each other and inbreeding like pigs? that is not a way for deserve a own country, maybe only Zoo's, nothing else...

Didn't you breed in millions before invading the Middle East and Europe? Such meme xD

[Pahli]

They are mostly uneducated and religiously strictest people. Women have no right in kurdish community.

Ever notice no kurdish girl in forums like TA, ABF etc..? .

Edit: On the contrary of what is thought, many members of ISID are kurdish.

We have as many rights as you have, stop looking at individual situations, some people are still retarded because they love Islam so much

[Pahli]

More the reason they should not interfere in our business. This why I believe western Iraq should go to Jordan, Iranic influence has been nothing but negative. We and Jordanians are genetically and culturally very close. I myself 1/16th Howetiat from the Aqaba region.

Arabic influence was the worst for us, and not vice versa xD

[gültekin]

Didn't you breed in millions before invading the Middle East and Europe? Such meme xD
the difference here is, we had balls and steel, you have useless donkey arse, that's all . that because you parasites have not a land

[Pahli]

the difference here is, we had balls and steel, you have useless donkey arse, that's all . that because you parasites have not a land

Balls of steel? xD You outnumbered every fucking enemy of yours after years of having families with 10 - 20 kids, and you complain about Kurds doing it xD

[gültekin]

Balls of steel? xD You outnumbered every fucking enemy of yours after years of having families with 10 - 20 kids, and you complain about Kurds doing it xD
how sad ma Kıro, cry a lot, you unusable primitive Homo Erectus leftovers never will get a own land because you do not have a capacity for that.

[Poorman]

They are living unaware of women rights, civil law and women liberation. Thank God there are still places where the females are in check and do as they are told. Since it is exactly WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND LIBERATION that have brought the Western World low ... Females act as the enablers of PC and the Coloreds. Since if ONLY men voted PC would have NEVER existed! It is that simple. Thus I say: Keep your ways Kurds don't let the Fems do to your culture what they have done to ours!

[Longbowman]

I've never had a girlfriend

Truth.

[gültekin]

Thank God there are still places where the females are in check and do as they are told. Since it is exactly WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND LIBERATION that have brought the Western World low ... Females act as the enablers of PC and the Coloreds. Since if ONLY men voted PC would have NEVER existed! It is that simple. Thus I say: Keep your ways Kurds don't let the Fems do to your culture what they have done to ours!
?? :confused:

[Wadaad]

its called badal in Pakistan Afghanistan.

Hahaha 'badal' means 'replacement' in Arabic

[Alchemysta]

Wadaad is always right.

[gültekin]

another stunning story , maybe that gives a clean opinion on the case and with how kind of subhumans we have to confronted
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=she-never-lived-anyhow-2008-03-10


She never 'lived' anyhow!
As part of the routine March 8 International Women's Day celebrations, the Turkish media remembered an otherwise often-ignored tragedy of women in rural parts of Turkey by highlighting the story of 17-year-old Lalihan from Batman.

On the day women were singing and celebrating the International Women's Day in squares of Ankara, Istanbul and İzmir with demands for wider rights and increased participation in politics for the Turkish women, a group of people were silently lowering the dead body of Lalihan to the bosom of mother earth with a simple religious ceremony in Batman.

She lived without becoming either an individual or indeed a citizen of the country she was born to as her parents never ever registered her… The only proof that a person named Lalihan ever lived in these lands was her dead body which was buried on March 8. As in “Yaşar, ne yaşar ne yaşamaz” (Yaşar, neither lives nor does not live) famous short story by Aziz Nesin, “she neither lived, nor did not live” but definitely was killed or made a victim of a rather primitive tradition.

Berdel, barter of brides!

Her family had agreed with another family in their neighborhood to exchange brides… A tradition called “Berdel…” The two families were indeed the families of two brothers. Marriages within the same families have been long discouraged by the state, but who cared what the state said? The girls and boys intended to be married had grown up together like brothers and sisters… They did not want to marry a brother or sister… The elders of the families of the two brothers simply did not bother. They wanted the daughters and sons of two brothers to marry and thus avoid dividing the family's land allowing it to fall into the hands of outsiders.

It was a good arrangement… So thought the elders of the clan! After all, Lalihan's elder brother was willing to marry his niece, and his cousin, Abdurrahman İlhan, was willing to marry Lalihan! Girls had no other option but to obey the wishes of the boys, and the clan… Otherwise, it would have been a grave insult to the “honor of the family” and the clan if the girls objected to their arrangement to be brides… A crime punishable by death!

Lalihan could not understand how she could become wife to Abdurrahman, whom she grew up playing and working with in the family fields as sister and brother. She objected. Trying to explain to her elder brother, she could not. Trying to explain to her mother, she could not. She could not even manage to discuss the issue with her father.

She decided to risk everything and say “No, I can't agree marrying someone I consider a brother!” The family was upset… Berdel (the bride exchange tradition) had collapsed… This was not the first time such thing had happened in that part of Turkey and what ought to be done was clear in the minds of everyone, including Lalihan… She either would commit suicide and clean the honor of the family (in that case a junior sister would become the bride under the terms of “berdel” or Lalihan would be punished (killed) by either her brother, or the bridegroom-to-be whom she rejected, and thus the family would restore its dignity in the local population.

She did not have a younger sister that the family could offer as “sacrifice” and the bridegroom-to-be climbed the stairs to the roof of Lalihan's house, took out his sharp knife, stabbed the body of the young girl who had refused to become his bride until she fell dead while an army of relatives watched the horrible scene from a distance! The honor of the family was restored!

Barbarism in demonstration:

The body of Lalihan could have been silently buried and the case would have been closed, her would-be bridegroom executioner and those who ordered her “execution” could have get away with the crime because there was no evidence, after all, that she ever lived anyhow… She was not registered, never had an ID… She was just one of those girls of eastern Anatolia who did not live at all, according to official Turkey.

Somehow, the murder was reported, however, and Lalihan managed to be registered in official Turkey after her murder, as an honor crime victim.

Was official Turkey required to register and protect Lalihan while she was alive, or simply to register her as a victim of honor crime? Lalihan is gone, like many others who were “sacrificed” by a primitive mentality… It is too late to save Lalihan, but there are many others in Anatolia who like Lalihan are not “alive” in official records but await this state's attention to prevent a similar calamity! After all, what is a state for if it cannot protect Lalihans?

[gültekin]

batman xD
yes the city of the ultimate flying übermenschliche objects
http://galeri8.uludagsozluk.com/485/gunun-kekosu_663603.jpg

[gültekin]

Wadaad is always right.
you're also right :D

[Shah-Jehan]

its called badal in Pakistan Afghanistan.

yes, it's a part of Pashtunwali.

[gültekin]

yes, it's a part of Pashtunwali.
interesting, maybe the Kurds have their roots from there, i didn't heard that Iranians have such a custom?

[Halgurd]

batman xD

Unfortunately Turks changed the name of the city, an ugly name that came from an ugly language.

[Shah-Jehan]

interesting, maybe the Kurds have their roots from there, i didn't heard that Iranians have such a custom?

Yeah, both are Iranic people, so customs are definitely similar. Idk, if this Kurdish custom actually exists, but Pashtuns in Pakistan and Afghanistan don't exchange brides. The 'badal' principle literally means revenge and is a part of honour killing to resolve feuds, where if someone insults someone else or dishonours them, the insulter can be hurt or killed, or if he is out of reach for the one seeking justice, their closest male relative will suffer instead.

[gültekin]

Unfortunately Turks changed the name of the city, an ugly name that came from an ugly language.
yes Kurdish is a pretty nice language xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZL119gL71Y

[Pahli]

turkish language is actually very cool

Shqiptar traitor xD

[Pahli]

yes Kurdish is a pretty nice language xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZL119gL71Y

There are different dialects of Kurdish, and I guess you're used to hearing Kurmanji which I cannot understand one bit of xD

[Halgurd]

turkish language is actually very cool

The original name of the city was Êlih, and Turks changed it to the name of a superhero.

There are others such as Dersim became Tunceli, Amed became Diyarbakir, Colemerg became Hakkari... Disgusting

[gültekin]

There are different dialects of Kurdish, and I guess you're used to hearing Kurmanji which I cannot understand one bit of xD
so you have admit that you are not a real nation and have not a common language. anyway Qırmonchi sounds pretty cool

[Halgurd]

i love batman though

Might as well rename it to Gotham city lol

[gültekin]

How about Gorani kurdish? can you understand that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjVytycXDzk

[Pahli]

How about Gorani kurdish? can you understand that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjVytycXDzk

No, only Feyli Kurdish (West Iran) lol

Do you have a fetish for donkey videos xD?

[gültekin]

No, only Feyli Kurdish (West Iran) lol

Do you have a fetish for donkey videos xD?
not exactly, that is the obsession of Kurds which i was wondering. i'm just interested about Kurdish culture
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?160509-Why-are-K%FCrts-so-obsessed-with-with-donkeys

[Pahli]

not exactly, that is the obsession of Kurds which i was wondering. i'm just interested about Kurdish culture
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?160509-Why-are-K%FCrts-so-obsessed-with-with-donkeys

Then you need to start with yourself, because you clearly have a completely wrong ideas about Kurds and Kurdish culture. But thats going to take me a century to explain to you, since you think in complete other ways.

[gültekin]

Then you need to start with yourself, because you clearly have a completely wrong ideas about Kurds and Kurdish culture. .
not exactly, and you know that xD

[Pahli]

not exactly, and you know that xD

I already gave up xD

[gültekin]

Kurdish marriage arrangements are very complex and defined by tribal traditions. Almost all Kirmanji-, Sorani-, Zaza-, and Gorani-speaking Kurds are historically tribal people, and tribal traditions continue to affect the daily experiences of tribal, as well as nontribal Kurds, who live in both rural and urban areas. The term mal also means a lineage in Kurdish. A lineage is a group of people who descend from a common ancestor. According to tribal ideology, brothers, father, and sons are joined in a single group, creating a division within the tribe against the father's brother and his sons. They all unite against far removed patriarchal cousins. Although a tribe is segmented genealogically, all of the units described above are united as patrilineal kin against another tribe at times of conflict, such as blood feuds. Tribal membership exists both in terms of putative patrilineal kin groups (groups that trace their genealogy to a common ancestor of the main branch of the tribe) and fictive patrilineal kinship groups (groups created in circumstances when an individual was adopted as a tribal member; lineages are traced from this adopted individual). However, tribal kinship is described bilaterally (traced through both male and Kurdish households may have both a male and female head, with separate family obligations. Kurdish traditions are being modified by outside forces, including global capitalism. ED KASHI/CORBIS female lines). Kurdish kinship terminology consists of two categories: kin relations traced through blood (consanguine) and through marriage (affinal) relations. In each category, terms are very specific for ascending and descending generations; the categories define patrilineal kin and female affine, as well as social relations. Yezidi traditions are similar to the traditions of Muslim Kurds, yet are differentiated by the existence of social categories: sheihks, peshimams, pirs, kawals, and faqirs. These categories clearly define social, political, and economic positions, as well as responsibilities of these individuals within Yezidi societies.

Marriage is one of the most important events for establishing alliances and creating social hierarchies within and between tribes. Upon marriage, a woman leaves her birth homestead and moves to her husband's village. Traditionally, a woman did not move away from the territory of her lineage since most marriages were within the lineage where members live a short distance away. However, urban migration and diaspora relations resulted in contemporary marriages in which women not only move from their paternal homes, but frequently cross national borders. Traditionally, Kurdish marriages are arranged marriages. Marriage arrangements may be completed even before children are born. For boys and girls, marriage establishes the passage to adulthood. The marriageable age of male and female children varies according to socioeconomic class and the specific needs of individual families. The average age for marriage increases in urban areas, where the parties involved are usually educated and employed. Although the marriage age of boys is slightly higher than girls, this depends on various social and economic strategies of households. Generally, girls' marriages are postponed when there is a labor shortage in the family. However, they may be given in marriage at an early age to settle a dispute in a case of kidnapping, taking an unmarried girl by force to marry against her will. That is, if a son of family A kidnaps a girl from family B, the resulting dispute between the two families can't be settled unless family A gives a girl to family B. The possibilities of both eloping and kidnapping also contribute to the desire to arrange early marriages for girls. Although kidnapping and eloping are relatively rare, both cause a social disruption and require mediation between lineages and families to recover from social and economic damages. These events highlight certain aspects of Kurdish family traditions.

Historically, tribal endogamy—the obligation to marry within the tribe—is followed in Kurdish marriages. Yezidi marriages similarly follow strict endogamy within well-defined social categories. Yezidi traditions do not allow marriages between the families of sheihks, peshimams, pirs, kawals, and faqirs. According to Kurdish traditions, a man has the right to marry his paternal uncle's daughter. Any arrangement contrary to this rule must be negotiated between the two brothers. Therefore, for all Kurds the preferred form of marriage is with patrilateral cousins (the children of siblings of the same sex, FBD/FBS—father's brother's daughter and son) while cross-cousin (the children of the siblings of opposite sex, FZD/FZS—father's sister's daughter and son) marriages are rarely practiced. The lineage endogamy is secured by marrying a first parallel cousin, and if this is not possible, a second or a more distant patrilateral cousin. The patrilateral cousins' marriage keeps property in the family and reinforces patriarchal and tribal solidarity.

Marriages are often arranged in the form of direct exchanges, pê-guhurk. Direct exchange marriages are made if one household head, who gives a daughter to another one as a wife for their son, demands a wife in return. The most common form of a direct exchange between two households is sister exchange. In rare cases, marriages are arranged between three families: family A gives a daughter to family B, family B gives a daughter to family C, and family C completes the circle of exchange by giving a daughter to family A. Direct wife and sister exchanges eliminate the payment of bride-price in marriages.

In Kurdistan, a widowed woman stays with her husband's family. If she is widowed when her children are young, she is obliged to marry her deceased husband's brother. This form of marriage is called levirate. Sororate is another custom: When a man loses his wife before she bears a child or she dies leaving young children, her lineage provides another wife to the man, usually a younger sister with a lowered bride-price. Both levirate and sororate are practiced to guarantee the well being of children and ensure that any inheritance of land will stay within the family.

Most Kurdish marriages are monogamous marriages. However, Islam allows polygynous marriages; a man may have as many as four wives at one time providing that he fulfills his obligations as prescribed in Islam. Although statistically rare, polygynous marriages are practiced by Kurdish men who have high economic and political status or claim to have such status. Patriarchal ideology justifies these marriages by emphasizing the Islamic prescription that asserts that social harmony will develop between wives who share household chores and childcare. In reality, polygyny complicates social relations between the members of extended households.

Bride-price is called naxt in Kurdish. It is given to the family of the bride at the time of betrothal or may be paid in increments until the wedding ceremony. It is paid in cash and gold and may include gifts to the bride and her family, the expenses of the wedding ceremony, a rifle, a revolver, jewelry, household goods, electronic equipment, and hoofed animals. The wedding expenses, including the bride-price and the construction and preparation of a room for the marrying couple, may be as much as one year's income for an average household. The amount of the bride-price varies according to the wealth and social standing of the groom's family. However, the bride-price is decreased if the marriage is an FBD/FBS marriage. The bride does not claim any of the bride-price. Generally, most fathers of young sons use the bride-price, which they receive from their daughter's marriages, to pay the family providing a bride for their sons. Fathers of young women are expected to prepare a trousseau and a dowry, which may include jewelry and livestock, for their marrying daughters. Kaleb or sirdan, so-called milk money, is not negotiated between families; rather, it is courteously presented to the mother of the bride, generally in the form of gold jewelry, for her loss of a daughter and a laborer.

Traditionally, peasant weddings include everyone living in the village of the groom and involve elaborate ceremonies. Most able members of the village contribute to wedding preparations in different ways. The wedding ceremonies may last several days. Following proper rules of conduct, a newly married couple avoids being in the same room with the groom's father for close to a week, although they are living in the same house. It is only after this period of prohibition that a bride can visit her parents to receive their blessings.

The preference for FBD/FBS marriages is one of the reasons why young men and women choose to elope. In urban areas, some young girls negotiate to marry a young man they choose by threatening their parents with the possibility of eloping. In both rural and urban areas, kidnapping may also be considered as an attempt on the part of young people to undermine this patriarchal imposition. Eloping and kidnapping also eliminate the problems of paying a high bride-price for the Kurds, but not for the Yezidis. Both eloping and kidnapping bring shame to families. However, kidnapping may have far more serious consequences. It may result in inter-lineage and intertribal feuds, since it is believed that the woman's honor is stained; she is no longer considered a virgin, and can't be returned to her family.

Traditionally, blood feuds are intertribal affairs. When a Kurd is murdered by someone from another tribe, not only the lineage of the dead man, but the whole tribe comes together for an extra-juridical form of punishment, usually provoking countermeasures that lead to escalated tribal warfare. Settlement between the tribes can be a lengthy process and is pursued until an agreement is reached about the payment of blood money, bezh, to the relatives of the victim. Blood feuds are more widespread in Northern Kurdistan than in other parts of Kurdistan, and incidents of it are decreasing as the power of tribal leaders decreases.

Among Muslim Kurds, despite the sharia, Islamic law, and civil inheritance laws where applicable, and among Yezidis, women are not given property, including land, pastures, houses, and livestock, as their inheritances. In addition, FBD/FBS marriages guarantee the continuity of patriarchal domination; it is less likely that her husband will support a woman's right to claim her inheritance. However, in urban areas, education, employment opportunities and nontraditional marriage arrangements situate women in more powerful positions to demand their legal inheritances.

Every birth in a Kurdish family is recognized with joy. In rural households, mothers do not discipline their children in the presence of their inlaws. Generally, breastfeeding continues until the baby is two years old. Although toddlers receive excessive care, as they grow up to understand the world around them, they also recognize that seniority is the organizing principle in Kurdish households. Children are expected to be obedient and submissive to their elders. Traditionally, they do not contest the decisions of the parents.

Sibling bonds, especially between sisters and brothers, are very strong among the Kurds. Brother-sister ties continue after her marriage. This bond guarantees the well being of the sister in her husband's household. In exchange, it secures the brother's right to keep all inherited property. Despite tribal ideology and the segmentary model, FBSs are usually close friends. Conflicts between the two of them, especially related to the division of landed property, are generally managed by the elder's mediation within village life. Cross-cousins (MBSs/MSSs) also usually have a close relationship and most often invest in trading activities together. Kurds are very clear in defining how close their relatives are with specific terms and references. The distance and the closeness of the kin are also strategically defined in terms of establishing ties with individuals who may be profitable to have as familial contacts. Kurds develop close relationships with their non-Kurdish neighbors through a mechanism called tirib relationships.

Circumcision is an important rite of passage in a man's life. Most boys are circumcised between the ages of six and ten. Kurds select a tirib from their neighbors who will comfort the young boy during his circumcision, with the hope that the two will have a lifelong relationship. Yezidis have a similar custom, selecting a Muslim man as karif or kiniv for the young boy, forming a blood-brotherhood between the two.

Read more: Kurdish Families - Kurdish Marriage Patterns - Gender, Family, History, Marriages, and Family - JRank Articles http://family.jrank.org/pages/1026/Kurdish-Families-Kurdish-Marriage-Patterns.html#ixzz3TPh2sL8s