Who are the Dutch most closely related to genetically?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

This has been on my mind. :D

[Leto]

Northern Germans, I think. And maybe Danes.

[Iltirbas]

Flemings and NW Germans I'd wager.

[Jana]

I think to Frisians and NW Germans.

[Hevo]

NW Germans, Danes, Eastern English and Flemlings. Dutch south of the Rhine are close to the northern French too.

[Peter Nirsch]

North West Germany, Flanders and Denmark

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

bump. How closely are they related to Bavarians and Pomeranians genetically? Also how closely would people from say Drenthe be related to the French genetically?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

bump

[Drakoblare]

Flemish and then Germans.

[Beit El]

I think to Frisians and NW Germans.

Frisians are Dutch, and Dutch are (mostly) of Frisian descent.


Also how closely would people from say Drenthe be related to the French genetically?

Not close at all really, Drenthe is a north-eastern border province. It's population and its dialects are on the spectrum of the Nethersaxons.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Frisians are Dutch, and Dutch are (mostly) of Frisian descent.



Not close at all really, Drenthe is a north-eastern border province. It's population and its dialects are on the spectrum of the Nethersaxons.

Drenthe is where my Dutch ancestors came from. They came from a village called Hees. Not far from a different village called Ruinen.

[Beit El]

Drenthe is where my Dutch ancestors came from. They came from a village called Hees. Not far from a different village called Ruinen.

It's also the province that has 52 of the 54 visible megalithic tombs (Hunebedden in Dutch, literally 'Giants' beds') in the Netherlands.

http://www.hunebedden.nl/d15.jpg

It's a region that for most Dutch people is connoted with prehistory and the rural quiet.

[King Claus]

Frisians are Dutch, and Dutch are (mostly) of Frisian descent(originally, yes).



.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

How closely are they related genetically to people from Sweden and Norway? What makes them different from ethnic Swedes and Norwegians genetically?

[Catkin]

On Eurogenes the North Dutch cluster closely with the Irish, Orcadian and West Scottish for some reason. North Dutch is my closest single population match on K13 and it is also Grace O'Malley's too I think. The South Dutch cluster closer to Germans.

[Graham]

On Eurogenes the North Dutch cluster closely with the Irish, Orcadian and West Scottish for some reason. North Dutch is my closest single population match on K13 and it is also Grace O'Malley's too I think. The South Dutch cluster closer to Germans.

I can do a Euclidean distance of those populations, if anyone wants. Will need to find the averages though for whatever run.

Going by distance on both Calculators.. North Dutch are most similar to the Danish & South Dutch to Western Germany.


K15

North Dutch

Danish 2.4857706
West_Scottish 4.0061259
Icelandic 4.1138263
Irish 4.1538991
Southeast_English 4.8957238

South Dutch

French 6.3332895
Southwest_English 6.5611779
West_German 6.8665801
North_German 7.2501747
Southeast_English 7.4065189

K13

North Dutch

Danish 1.7340928
Norwegian 3.0795923
Orcadian 3.183075
Icelandic 3.2547879
Irish 3.8178106

South Dutch

West_German 2.5191952
Southeast_English 7.0702389
French 7.2510321
North_German 8.6474813
Southwest_English 8.9057029

[Dandelion]

Depends on the province. Limburgers/Brabanders/Zeelandic Flemings are obviously closer to us. :) Other Dutchmen/-women would be closer to Northern Germans, genetically speaking.

[Graham]

Depends on the province. Limburgers/Brabanders/Zeelandic Flemings are obviously closer to us. :) Other Dutchmen/-women would be closer to Northern Germans, genetically speaking.

I'll add that Belgians, Flemings or North French(separate from South) aren't on the calculators.

SO when I say West Germans or Danes are closer. That is the populations available

[Catkin]

K15

North Dutch

Danish 2.4857706
West_Scottish 4.0061259
Icelandic 4.1138263
Irish 4.1538991
Southeast_English 4.8957238

K13

North Dutch

Danish 1.7340928
Norwegian 3.0795923
Orcadian 3.183075
Icelandic 3.2547879
Irish 3.8178106


The Icelandic figures are interesting. They aren't on Gedmatch are they?

[Graham]

The Icelandic figures are interesting. They aren't on Gedmatch are they?

I don't know. Can remember West Norwegian on one run, probably K15. Don't think there'd be much between those two groups. Edit: I must be wrong though if Iceland shows only.

I prefer K13 to K15 unlike Polako who made the thing.

[Dombra]

How closely are they related genetically to people from Sweden and Norway? What makes them different from ethnic Swedes and Norwegians genetically?

Swedes and Norwegians are pretty close to the Dutch but not as much as the Danes. Scandinavia and Netherlands two different bases but very close in the grander scale, especially after mixture.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Swedes and Norwegians are pretty close to the Dutch but not as much as the Danes. Scandinavia and Netherlands two different bases but very close in the grander scale, especially after mixture.

So what makes them different from ethnic Swedes and ethnic Norwegians genetically?

[Willem]

Soon we will be closest to Moroccans and Indonesians, lol.

[Ctwentysevenj]

Flemings and North Germans

[Ctwentysevenj]

Soon we will be closest to Moroccans and Indonesians, lol.

unfortunately true. Not just the Netherlands, but your Neighbour Belgium and some other smaller European countries, when third worlders may become the majority. :(

[Ctwentysevenj]

Swedes and Norwegians are pretty close to the Dutch but not as much as the Danes. Scandinavia and Netherlands two different bases but very close in the grander scale, especially after mixture.

What about another smaller Germanic country, Austria.

[Dombra]

So what makes them different from ethnic Swedes and ethnic Norwegians genetically?

Dutch are of North Sea Facade stock while Swedes and Norwegians are of Scando-stock, more isolated northern. Swedes have some admixture from the Baltic sea

[Dombra]

What about another smaller Germanic country, Austria.

They are nowhere as close as any North Sea population but they are both part of a Germanic shift if one looks at the bigger picture :)

[Yuffayur]

bump. How closely are they related to Bavarians and Pomeranians genetically? Also how closely would people from say Drenthe be related to the French genetically?

http://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/novembreblogpostfig.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/08/13/science/figure1a_600.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Gentic_Map_of_Europe.png

[Hevo]

Frisians are Dutch, and Dutch are (mostly) of Frisian descent.


Dutch people from Noord-Brabant and Limburg( people from Limburg are like half Germans if you ask mexD) don't have much Frisian admixture but rather Frankish and other stuff.

[Breedingvariety]

Dutch are Germans in denial.

[Hevo]

Dutch are Germans in denial.

Genetics tell otherwise.

[Leliana]

Genetics tell otherwise.

Genetics can't be so different. The history of Holland is a history of a Lower-German region gone independent and their Lower German dialect grew to be an own language (however widely understandable by Germans).

Dutch (Deutsch!) are of German stock. Of course they have similarities to Danes, too.

[StonyArabia]

North Germans, Scandos and British

[sioned]

You all get it wrong. On so many levels.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

You all get it wrong. On so many levels.

Who do you think they are most closely related to, my friend? :)

[Hevo]

Genetics can't be so different.

Well, according to genetics the Dutch are not a bunch of Germans in denial.



The history of Holland is a history of a Lower-German region gone independent and their Lower German dialect grew to be an own language (however widely understandable by Germans).


I assume you mean the whole country rather than the region Holland itself right? The region Holland has it's own history. Citizens of Holland were infact Frankized Frisians.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Frisia_716-la.svg/583px-Frisia_716-la.svg.png

The inhabitants of Holland were referring to themselves as "Hollanders" before the Holy Roman Empire existed. They were not Low Germans.

[Willem]

Dutch people from Noord-Brabant and Limburg( people from Limburg are like half Germans if you ask mexD) don't have much Frisian admixture but rather Frankish and other stuff.

These regional differences are slowly eroding away because of all the intra-national migration.

[Drakoblare]

Other Germanics, most likely the Germans near them. If you count the Flemish as a seperate ethnic group (lol) then it's with them.

[Leliana]

Well, according to genetics the Dutch are not a bunch of Germans in denial.

True, but we Germans use 'Holland' as a synonym for all of the Netherlands. ;)

http://wm2006.flachpass.net/assets/images/Holland.jpg

http://www.fc45.de/images/product_images/info_images/Helmut-aus-Mallorca_Ohne-Holland-fahrn-wir-zur-WM.jpg

[Neon Knight]

True, but we Germans use 'Holland' as a synonym for all of the Netherlands. ;) Really? I thought it was only we British who did that. I think that would annoy me if I was a Netherlander. It's like saying Yorkshire to mean England.

[Septentrion]

Drenthe is where my Dutch ancestors came from. They came from a village called Hees. Not far from a different village called Ruinen.

We can say that the Germans are the most similar to the Dutch genetically as a whole. Though there are slight differences.

[Septentrion]

Genographic 2.0

Dutch population biogeographic genomic make-up:
59% (Western & Central Europe)
19% (Great Britain & Ireland)
13% (Scandinavia)
6% (Eastern Europe)
3% (Southern Europe)

Compared to some Germanic populations:

German:
42% (Western & Central Europe)
16% (Eastern Europe)
14% (Scandinavia)
11% (Great Britain & Ireland)
5% (Jewish Diaspora)
6% (Southern Europe)
6% (Finland & Northern Siberia)

Danish
56% (Scandinavia)
26% (Western & Central Europe)
7% (Eastern Europe)
6% (Finland & Northern Siberia)
2% (Great Britain & Ireland)

Norwegian
64% (Scandinavia)
14% (Eastern Europe)
12% (Finland & Northern Siberia)
8% (Western & Central Europe)

Thus we can easily deduce that Germans are closest.

[EasternEurope]

Definitely Flemish and then in close second, the Northwest Germans.

[Decius]

NW Germans

[Fantomas]

Genographic 2.0

Dutch population biogeographic genomic make-up:
59% (Western & Central Europe)
19% (Great Britain & Ireland)
13% (Scandinavia)
6% (Eastern Europe)
3% (Southern Europe)

Compared to some Germanic populations:

German:
42% (Western & Central Europe)
16% (Eastern Europe)
14% (Scandinavia)
11% (Great Britain & Ireland)
5% (Jewish Diaspora)
6% (Southern Europe)
6% (Finland & Northern Siberia)

Danish
56% (Scandinavia)
26% (Western & Central Europe)
7% (Eastern Europe)
6% (Finland & Northern Siberia)
2% (Great Britain & Ireland)

Norwegian
64% (Scandinavia)
14% (Eastern Europe)
12% (Finland & Northern Siberia)
8% (Western & Central Europe)

Thus we can easily deduce that Germans are closest.

France is closer. Germans, unlike Dutch, have large amounts of Eastern European and Finland admixture. Dutch are identical with French in it, and in 59% of West-Central

[Decius]

France is closer. Germans, unlike Dutch, have large amounts of Eastern European and Finland admixture. Dutch are identical with French in it, and in 59% of West-Central

So much for Deutschland Über Alles


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHBQfYLY7Ik

[Septentrion]

Definitely Flemish and then in close second, the Northwest Germans.

Well the Flemish as I am, are no different from the Dutch. The people of the southern Netherlands and those of Flanders are practically the same.

[Septentrion]

France is closer. Germans, unlike Dutch, have large amounts of Eastern European and Finland admixture. Dutch are identical with French in it, and in 59% of West-Central

Yes, you made a good point for once.
French population:
59% (West & Central Europe)
21% (Southern Europe)
7% (Great Britain & Ireland)
5% (Eastern Europe)
3% (Jewish Diaspora)
2% (Scandinavia)
2% (Northern Africa)

However France shows a much greater amount of Southern European components than the Dutch and Germans associated with the agriculturalists who originated in the Fertile Crescent before their great migration into the European continent, some 8,000 years ago.

[Septentrion]

Dutch are Germans in denial.

The Dutch are not Germans, but they are very similar genetically with some differences.

[Septentrion]

How closely are they related genetically to people from Sweden and Norway? What makes them different from ethnic Swedes and Norwegians genetically?

The ethnic Swedish and Norwegians are a very closely related people of the Northern Germanic linguistic group. There is not much of a difference (genetically), all I can say is that Swedish people might have only slightly more genes from Finland and Northern Siberia region and that of Eastern Europe. This would obviously be linked to the geographical location of Sweden which is in a way "sandwiched" between Norway and Finland. Or else they are practically the same people. However, if we separated the Norwegian, Swedish and Danish genetically, we see that the "most Scandinavian" on a genetic scale are the Norwegian and the "least Scandinavian" are Danish folks. The people of Finland are on genetic scale not Scandinavian but they have the highest admixtures of Scandinavian genes outside of the Scandinavian core group (Norway, Sweden, Denmark)!

Finnish genome:
61% (Finland & Northern Siberia)
19% (Scandinavia)
11% (Eastern Europe)
7% (Central Asia)

[Septentrion]

Drenthe is where my Dutch ancestors came from. They came from a village called Hees. Not far from a different village called Ruinen.

Drenthe is part of the Northern Netherlands region. So Dutch people from that province have a higher percentage of blonde hair and blue eyes than the national average for the Netherlands. Other Northern Dutch provinces are Friesland and Groningen.

[ecptr]

Flemish, Danes, Germans, English.