Best Politician in History?

[Murphy]

Now, I am not talking about ideology. I'm talking about politicians whom, whether we agree with them or disagree with them, got things done and were good at this game we call politics.

So who would you consider to be the best politician in history and why? To make it easier, you can have multiple choices, but try and limit it to one per-era.

And I wont be adding a poll either as there are simply too many options.

[Eldritch]

Thomas Jefferson, anyone?

[Murphy]

I say there's a strong argument that could be put forward that Bismark was one of the best politicians of the modern(ish) day.

[Osweo]

'Getting things done and being good at the game of politics'?

Hmm.... :chin: Worming their way to the top, elimination of rivals, securing personal position, steering their country's ideology, defeating foreign powers, extending influence abroad, holding power till death, impressing themselves deeply on the consciousness of their subjects, leaving a vast legacy for future history, having books and books written about them until the end of time...

The cobbler's son from Gori seems to have done rather well.
http://ossetians.com/pictures/Stalin_1902.jpg

[Eldritch]

Not to mention his succesful modeling career (for statues, that is)!

[Saruman]

http://classics.uc.edu/~johnson/epic/aeneid_images/augustus2.jpg


Cruel and ruthless, but compassionate as well, quite moral. Out of chaos of late republic he created a functioning order and made Rome into a city of marble. Best to quote Anthony Everitt:
"Opposites do not have to be mutually exclusive, and we are not obliged to choose one or the other. The story of his career shows that Augustus was indeed ruthless, cruel, and ambitious for himself. This was only in part a personal trait, for upper-class Romans were educated to compete with one another and to excel. However, he combined an overriding concern for his personal interests with a deep-seated patriotism, based on a nostalgia of Rome's antique virtues. In his capacity as princeps, selfishness and selflessness coexisted in his mind. While fighting for dominance, he paid little attention to legality or to the normal civilities of political life. He was devious, untrustworthy, and bloodthirsty. But once he had established his authority, he governed efficiently and justly, generally allowed freedom of speech, and promoted the rule of law. He was immensely hardworking and tried as hard as any democratic parliamentarian to treat his senatorial colleagues with respect and sensitivity. He suffered from no delusions of grandeur."

[SwordoftheVistula]

Yep, gotta go with Uncle Joe

[Cato]

Gaius Octavian, aka Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus, aka Caesar Augustus.

[Grumpy Cat]

Despite his multicultural policies, there were many things about Trudeau were badass...

-7_a2wa2dd4

[Aemma]

Despite his multicultural policies, there were many things about Trudeau were badass...

-7_a2wa2dd4

Absolutely definitely agreed! I had a poster of him in my locker in high school. Yep, this is how much I liked him--him and his politics. :thumb001:

I would add Margaret Thatcher. I don't know what other female politican wore pants so very well. :D

[Grumpy Cat]

Here are some more Trudeau quotes: :D

If you want to see me again, don't bring signs saying 'Trudeau is a pig' and don't bring signs that he hustles women, because I won't talk to you. I didn't get into politics to be insulted. And don't throw wheat at me either. If you don't stop that, I'll kick you right in the ass. - Said to a protester who threw food at him

Mangez de la merde. - Said to striking postal workers

Fuck off. - Said to an Opposition MP in the House of Commons

Oh, I don't know...fuddle-duddle or something like that. - Said to the media when asked about what he said to the Opposition MP

I've been called worse things by better people. - Said to Richard Nixon after he called him an asshole

The next time you see Jesus Christ, ask Him what happened to the just society He promised 2,000 years ago. - Said to a high school student who asked him about what happened to the just society he promised

I don't really know what a cyclotron is but I am certainly very happy Canada has one! - Said when visiting the TRIUMF cyclotron

Oh, for Christ's sake shut up. - Said to an NDP MP in the House of Commons.

Some things I never learned to like. I didn't like to kiss babies, though I didn't mind kissing their mothers - In his autobiography

It's not a perfect job, but it sure beats working. - on being Prime Minister

I can't give you too many kisses. The press are watching. Perhaps later. - Said to a female parliamentary intern

There are only two things I do in bed. One of them is sleep and I wouldn't let you photograph the other one. - Said to a journalist

Reporter: Will you give up the Mercedes?
Trudeau: Are you talking about the car now, or the girl?
Reporter: The car.
Trudeau: I won't give up either.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Frederick Barbarossa and Catherine the Great
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Rokotov_Portrait_Catherine_II.jpg/220px-Rokotov_Portrait_Catherine_II.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rokotov_Portrait_Catherine_II.jpg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rokotov_Portrait_Catherine_II.jpg)
<center>Catherine II of Russia


Frederick Barbarossa

http://nobledinasty.webs.com/FrederickBarbarossa.jpg
</center>

[Treffie]

Absolutely definitely agreed! I had a poster of him in my locker in high school. Yep, this is how much I liked him--him and his politics. :thumb001:

I would add Margaret Thatcher. I don't know what other female politican wore pants so very well. :D

They don't make them like they used to :( President Mitterand once described her as beguiling. In a way, I suppose she was.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/columnists/images/2007/12/27/thatcher_statue.jpg

[Svanhild]

Otto von Bismarck

In the 19th century, he united Germany and made us strong and competitive.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q28/EmperorTab/Bismark.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/10/20100108003945!Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-2005-0057,_Otto_von_Bismarck.jpg

[Cato]

http://classics.uc.edu/~johnson/epic/aeneid_images/augustus2.jpg


Cruel and ruthless, but compassionate as well, quite moral. Out of chaos of late republic he created a functioning order and made Rome into a city of marble. Best to quote Anthony Everitt:
"Opposites do not have to be mutually exclusive, and we are not obliged to choose one or the other. The story of his career shows that Augustus was indeed ruthless, cruel, and ambitious for himself. This was only in part a personal trait, for upper-class Romans were educated to compete with one another and to excel. However, he combined an overriding concern for his personal interests with a deep-seated patriotism, based on a nostalgia of Rome's antique virtues. In his capacity as princeps, selfishness and selflessness coexisted in his mind. While fighting for dominance, he paid little attention to legality or to the normal civilities of political life. He was devious, untrustworthy, and bloodthirsty. But once he had established his authority, he governed efficiently and justly, generally allowed freedom of speech, and promoted the rule of law. He was immensely hardworking and tried as hard as any democratic parliamentarian to treat his senatorial colleagues with respect and sensitivity. He suffered from no delusions of grandeur."

Augustus may have been Caesar's political heir, but he's more Sulla-like than Caesar-like.

[Sol Invictus]

aX6XMIldkRU

[Eldritch]

Sometimes called the "greatest female ruler ever", which I find incredibly condescending and irrititating.

Elizabeth I was simply one of the greatest rulers ever, of either gender.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Darnley_stage_3.jpg/210px-Darnley_stage_3.jpg

[julie]

Regan:thumbs up

[The Lawspeaker]

Reagan was quite alright. But I would go for Johan de Witt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_de_Witt). 17th century statesman and mathematician.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Grand_Pensionary_Johan_de_Witt.jpg



And Charlemagne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne). He united most of Europe under his banner and shaped the course of European history.
Some of his reforms (for instance the pound- are being used in various countries to this very day).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Karl_der_gro%C3%9Fe.jpg
Even some of the buildings that were build during his rule survived the ages.

[Arrow Cross]

I'd add Adolf Hitler to the list. Nobody was as close to fundamentally and radically changing the whole world as him.

[Grumpy Cat]

I'd add Adolf Hitler to the list. Nobody was as close to fundamentally and radically changing the whole world as him.

Yeah thanks to Hitler it's no longer acceptable for someone of European descent to be proud of their heritage.

[Zyklop]

Yeah thanks to Hitler it's no longer acceptable for someone of European descent to be proud of their heritage.You need a permission for being proud of your heritage?

[SwordoftheVistula]

I don't think that can be blamed on Hitler. Even assuming the 'official' versions are true, the communists killed far more people than Hitler, and it's still fine to be a socialist (at least in the circles of the elites)

[Loddfafner]

The one and only Ludwig.

[Arrow Cross]

I don't think that can be blamed on Hitler. Even assuming the 'official' versions are true, the communists killed far more people than Hitler, and it's still fine to be a socialist (at least in the circles of the elites)
It's completely irrelevant to the question of whether he was a highly significant contributor to the world politics of his time. National Socialism was world-shaking, and it could only be obliterated with practically the whole globe joining forces against it.
In this sense, Lenin himself would deserve a mention here.

As far as I know, "best" politicians aren't necesserily our "favourite" ones.

[esaima]

Not to mention his succesful modeling career (for statues, that is)!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a1/Stalin_yerevan_victory_haghtanak_park.jpg/250px-Stalin_yerevan_victory_haghtanak_park.jpg

Yerevan, Armenia, perhaps the tallest Stalin.

[Äike]

Gustav II Adolf

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Gustav_II_of_Sweden.jpg

He's probably the best politician in Northern European history, he started the Swedish golden age, founded Tartu University in Estonia(1632) and he has been called the "father of modern warfare".

[Pallantides]

Yeah thanks to Hitler it's no longer acceptable for someone of European descent to be proud of their heritage.

Didn't know being proud and celebrating ones heritage is the same as Nazism:eek:
http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00750/TOG_V_Norske_flagg__750487x.jpg


If you ask any Norwegian if he is proud of his hertiage I think the majority will say yes.

[esaima]

Regan:thumbs up

http://www.science.co.il/People/Ronald-Reagan/images/Ronald-Reagan-1981.jpg

Yes, the citizens of the former Eastern block should remember and thank Reagan whos policy helped to dismantle the Evil empire.

[Jarl]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Statue-Augustus.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

Saladin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin)? :P

[Lars]

Hi! I'm a politician!

http://www.benecke.com/images/made135xa.jpg

[Aemma]

aX6XMIldkRU

Odd, I'd have thought that René Lévesque would have been more your cup of tea, Jason, given your love for the FLQistes and all. :D

vV-s0B0TmvY

Upon further reflection, I have to say that Monsieur Lévesque did much for Québec. I don`t begrudge him anything either.

[Cato]

Hm, how about Hammurabi, whose law code is one of the earliest surviving legal codes in history?

[Murphy]

Yes, the citizens of the former Eastern block should remember and thank Reagan whos policy helped to dismantle the Evil empire.

Pope Jon Paul II and other Bishops were also instrumental against Communism in the East, and you can't forget Maggie Thatcher's policies.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Osweo
Hmm.... Worming their way to the top, elimination of rivals, securing personal position, steering their country's ideology, defeating foreign powers, extending influence abroad, holding power till death, impressing themselves deeply on the consciousness of their subjects, leaving a vast legacy for future history, having books and books written about them until the end of time...

Sounds like the qualities of a successful politician to me. There aren’t many “nice” politicians they all die early or end up side lined.

Alcibiades 450-404BC, traitor, self interested, unscrupulous, extremely intelligent, good looking, full of charm, landed on his feet virtually every time even though he managed to antagonise the Athenians, Spartans and Persians. A reasonably astute statesman, partly responsible both for Athens eventual defeat in the Peloponnesian War as well as managing to keep it in action for so long after the Five Thousand, if something of a low life worm he was interesting and probably mentally unhinged. Survived for a surprisingly long time, that’s success.

Pericles 495-429BC, something of a demagogue who relied solely on his charismatic personality to keep the mob on side, an excellent orator if somewhat dubious as a military leader. Often it’s enough.

Octavian/Augustus 63BC-AD14, a ruthless, self serving, pragmatist an opportunist who managed to manipulate the Senate into handing over large amounts of its power with minimal effort on his part and actually made it look like first the Senate’s decision and secondly a burden for himself, they even kissed his ass for it. His one failing was he didn’t have his equally devious minded wife murdered but we all have failings I suppose.

[Liffrea]

Anthony Blair (1953-until someone either shoots him or he descends to god hood…or both). Probably Britain’s most successful Prime Minister if we define success by achieving pretty much every ambition you had and coming out of the game far richer than when you went in. He made £12 million whilst PM and over £20 million since, it costs you around a quarter of a million just to have him sit there for half an hour and tell you why he is considerably more successful and wealthier than you.

Highly intelligent, a professional liar and full of charm, ruthless, devious, has no sense of conscience, and willing to sell anyone and anything to get what he wants (all the qualities of a successful politician). He wisely had the laws on treason re-written before pretty much ending the independence of the UK and orchestrating the social engineering dreams of his Marxist youth. Handed the reigns of the Labour government to Brown after scenting the wind and seeing the coming balls up in the economy.

Unsurprisingly he is still adored by large numbers of the British public who think the sun shines out of his arse, that’s mainly due to the equally intelligent Alistair Campbell, a propaganda genius. I believe he now spends a large portion of his time in the Middle East on a donkey with a crown of thorns about his head.

Blair will probably be remembered as a “great man and statesman” in the centuries to come, after all he is paid up with the right people.

[Sally]

Regan:thumbs up

Do you mean Donald Regan or Ronald Reagan?

No animosity intended, I'm just curious.

[The Lawspeaker]

And for the Dutchies amongst us. He may have been a social democrat but he saved our skins from poverty and misery:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Willem_Drees.jpg

Willem Drees. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Drees) Prime Minister from 1948 to 1958. After World War II our country was reduced to smouldering rubble. Our economy non-existent. The people poor, hungry and desolate. But when the Americans started pouring in money cabinets under his leadership made sure that the economy became the engine of Europe. Policies like the rebuilding of the country, the creation of a welfare state, the geleide loonpolitiek (wages were, until 1963, controlled by the government in order to prevent inflation) as well as controlling prices and making sure that everything happened in an austere and controlled manner and that the economy went through the roof in a period known as the miracle hollandais- the Dutch miracle. Regrettably (seen from hindsight) he was also the driving force behind decolonization (Indonesia) and Translatlantic and European integration.

Mr. Drees strongly disapproved the New Left tendencies of the Dutch Labour Party and left the party in disgust in 1970. He died in 1988. Long enough to see the damage caused by New Left.

[esaima]

'Getting things done and being good at the game of politics'?

Hmm.... :chin: Worming their way to the top, elimination of rivals, securing personal position, steering their country's ideology, defeating foreign powers, extending influence abroad, holding power till death, impressing themselves deeply on the consciousness of their subjects, leaving a vast legacy for future history, having books and books written about them until the end of time...

The cobbler's son from Gori seems to have done rather well.
http://ossetians.com/pictures/Stalin_1902.jpg

Many like to compare Stalin and Hitler but i don´t think this is relevant.Hitler
harassed aliens but Stalin let to kill mostly ethnic Russians or sent them to GULAG.
Not talking about the number of victims: the wannabe Russian from Gori was much "better".

[Cato]

Do you mean Donald Regan or Ronald Reagan?

No animosity intended, I'm just curious.

Raygun?

[Eldritch]

Many like to compare Stalin and Hitler but i don´t think this is relevant.Hitler
harassed aliens but Stalin let to kill mostly ethnic Russians or sent them to GULAG.
Not talking about the number of victims: the wannabe Russian from Gori was much "better".

He also succeeded in (most) of his undertakings, whereas Hitler failed utterly.

[mustangeroo]

Augustus may have been Caesar's political heir, but he's more Sulla-like than Caesar-like.

Caesar was a great leader but I'd say Caesar died because he wasn't a very good politician. Octavian excelled where Caesar had failed.

[Saruman]

Caesar was a great leader but I'd say Caesar died because he wasn't a very good politician. Octavian excelled where Caesar had failed.

Indeed Caesar wasn't very cautious, he was too forgiving as well. For example he forgave Cicero for opposing him, but Octavian literally demanded Cicero's hand, and much later when he saw some kids reading Cicero's work, when they saw that Augustus noticed them doing it, they try to hide it, but I think he just said to them how learned and wise the man he had killed was, and that it is good for them to read his work!!:eek:Such pragmatism! Of course being forgiving and compassionate is a positive trait in general I'd say, but in the world of politics and especially in those chaotic ancient late republic times in Rome, it was serious drawback for a politician to have it.
Also Caesar was often not very aware of what was happening around him, the various plots. He wasn't cautious, for ex. that he allowed himself to be stabbed by a mob of senators when he could have surrounded himself with guards, he had power to protect himself.
Also he was too openly ambitious, Rome wasn't ready in those times for a "King" to be reinstated formally, there was much opposition to tyranny and dictatorship. But the often chaotic old republican system wasn't very suitable for the needs, of now large empire not a smaller city state, so a new more autocratic system was pretty much inevitable. And indeed even the system that Augustus created wasn't a real empire. Augustus, Tiberius etc. weren't "emperors" as they are usually known to be, they were formally just "Princeps Senatus", the first among the senators, the old title that was possessed in republican times by elder senator, and they held various other titles especially of more permanent "Proconsluship". So "The Senate and people of Rome" were still formally in charge until the later times of 3rd century when the rule of emperors became more autocratic.
So Augustus knew that he cannot become a king, so he devised a system in which he would hold absolute power while still formally being just a citizen. :cool:
And also he wasn't like Caesar boasting about his power, he was quite humble.
So yes Octavian was far better politician than Caesar, as opposed to military leadership where Ceasar was far better, though Augustus showed his wisdom here too by simply giving his close advisers free hand in those matters. Stalin did the same for ex. while Hitler on the other hand meddled too much in military affairs. Stalin gave his generals tasks to fulfill even making them compete against each other, while controlling them fully and even sending some that were becoming too popular to distant fronts.
I think it is always important for a leader to listen to the opinion of experts, while having an opinion of his own at the same time, and even having no 2nd thoughts of rejecting their opinions. The moderation is important, not listening, boasting and being arrogant creates aversion from many people as they feel unimportant, while being too listening and accepting might create the impression of leader's weakness. As usual in life it is not black and white but rather grey.:)

[Cato]

Caesar was a great leader but I'd say Caesar died because he wasn't a very good politician. Octavian excelled where Caesar had failed.

Caesar was too trusting I'd say. Auggie wasn't, and in the end he won whereas Caesar got twenty-three stab wounds for his trust in the people who used to be his enemies. Caesar may've trusted too much in Fate; his quote alea jacta est I think means both the die is cast and let the dice fly high, meaning that he was a bit of a gambler- which may've been his ultimate undoing (gambling that his enemies would support his new Roman order?!). Octavian wasn't a gambler, which is why he ultimately won the political game in Rome.

[Nom de guerre]

All politicians are vermin.

[Joe McCarthy]

Thomas Jefferson, anyone?

The Embargo Act was a debacle. He retired thinking his was a failed presidency.

I'll go with Cardinal Richelieu. He even managed to advance his country's national interests without bringing an ocean of bloodshed to it, unlike, say, Stalin.

[PAGANE]

Peter the Great was the last king of the Russian kingdom and the first emperor (1721 - 1725) of the Russian Empire of the Romanov dynasty.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Peter_der-Grosse_1838.jpg/800px-Peter_der-Grosse_1838.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

Now, I am not talking about ideology. I'm talking about politicians whom, whether we agree with them or disagree with them, got things done and were good at this game we call politics..
Then Isabel la Católica, queen of Castilla. She formed Spain unifying the kingdoms of Castilla and Aragón, finished the Reconquista reconquering Granada and expelling to Moors and Jews, and for last, discovered America. Impossible to improve it.

[Dna8]

Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus.

From wiki:

At the Battle of Mount Algidus, they used their spikes to quickly besiege the besieging Aequi. Rather than slaughter them between the two Roman camps, Cincinnatus accepted their pleas for mercy and offered an amnesty provided that three principal offenders were executed and Gracchus Cloelius and their other leaders be delivered to him in chains. A "yoke" of three spears was then set up and the Aequi made to pass under it as an act of submission, bowing and admitting their defeat. Cincinnatus then disbanded his army and returned to his farm, abandoning his control a mere fifteen days after it had been granted to him.

**

Cincinnatus became a legend to the Romans. Twice granted supreme power, he held onto it for not a day longer than absolutely necessary.