Ten theological questions

[Lulletje Rozewater]

As you all know I'm deeply pious and agonise over the meanings of the sacred texts. Are there any good theologians amongst you who can help me with these questions?

1. Leviticus 25: 44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. I'd like to get some, but does this mean I can buy them only from the UK?

2. As I'm a bit short of funds (recession and all that) I'd like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21: 7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her (expressed in Euros, please)?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev. 15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense for some reason.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev. 1: 9. The problem is, my neighbours. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11: 10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21: 20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear glasses - but only for reading. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11: 6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? And what if I head the ball?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19: 19 ! by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20: 14)

copied from other website

[Saruman]

As you all know I'm deeply pious and agonise over the meanings of the sacred texts. Are there any good theologians amongst you who can help me with these questions?
Any time Kleitrapper!:thumb001:


1. Leviticus 25: 44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. I'd like to get some, but does this mean I can buy them only from the UK?
Tough luck being an islander, eh? Since God leaves you no options left you need to commit idolatry and ask Poseidon to lend you one of these.
http://images.ados.fr/bd-manga/photo/hd/5395306539/sirenes/trois-sirenes-1338980028.jpg


2. As I'm a bit short of funds (recession and all that) I'd like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21: 7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her (expressed in Euros, please)?
It depends on a specific case, but since Anne Nicole Smith was worth 400 million, if she's anything like her you might even get rich. ;)


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev. 15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense for some reason.

Offer her cunnilingus?


4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev. 1: 9. The problem is, my neighbours. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
Put clothespins on their noses.


5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
Call him.
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/8/6/128940512955969554.jpg


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11: 10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree.
You might be correct!;)
http://www.gaypasg.org/GayPASG/PressClippings/2006/Feb/Russian%20Rabbi.jpg


7. Lev. 21: 20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear glasses - but only for reading. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

You might get away with contact lenses, who'll notice?:lightbul:;)


8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

They don't die for that, and it is permissible with an electric shaver(not a single-bladed razor). However if you need to outsmart them in something let them be as: "payot were believed to separate the front part of the brain, used for abstract thought, from the back part of the brain that governs the body":thumb001:


9. I know from Lev. 11: 6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? And what if I head the ball?

Put this on and play.;)
http://www.goproductionsla.com/blog/images/burka.jpg


Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20: 14)

Nope, if you're strong enough hit them with 50 pound stones, considering other folk you could call in for stoning would throw smaller ones, one large would equal their throws.

[Cato]

All part of the Mosaic law, so unless you're a Jew none of the above has anything to do with you.

[Thorum]

All part of the Mosaic law, so unless you're a Jew none of the above has anything to do with you.

Instead of trolling the thread, why not just restrain yourself and not offer a comment. Your comment had nothing to do with answering the original question posed...

[Absinthe]

I misread the title as "Teh theological questions" and I thought Saltimbanque was back. :o

You can now spank me for trolling :o

[Psychonaut]

One of the most interesting things I find about Christian Fundamentalism is the picking and choosing of certain prohibited activities enumerated in Exodus and Leviticus, but shrugging off others as irrelevant. I know that the usual justification for this appeals to one of Jesus' pronouncements in the NT that overrides Mosaic Law, but no where in the NT is it specifically mentioned which of the old laws are to be kept and which are to be disregarded. So, here's a question for TA's Christians:

If you believe things like homosexuality and beastiality are, due to OT prohibitions, not to be done, why are you OK with eating shellfish and wearing garments made from multiple types of fabric?

[Cato]

]Instead of trolling the thread[/B], why not just restrain yourself and not offer a comment. Your comment had nothing to do with answering the original question posed...

http://www.maggags.com/blow-it-out-your-ass.GIF

That was a serious observation about the Mosaic law of the Old Testament kleit posted about (that they only apply to Jews and no one else); if you don't like it, follow the above advice.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

All part of the Mosaic law, so unless you're a Jew none of the above has anything to do with you.

It has:D
We all descend from Noah and his sons,do not know the mothers :confused:

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Any time Kleitrapper!:thumb001:

Very clever.:tongue:tongue

[Lulletje Rozewater]

One of the most interesting things I find about Christian Fundamentalism is the picking and choosing of certain prohibited activities enumerated in Exodus and Leviticus, but shrugging off others as irrelevant. I know that the usual justification for this appeals to one of Jesus' pronouncements in the NT that overrides Mosaic Law, but no where in the NT is it specifically mentioned which of the old laws are to be kept and which are to be disregarded. So, here's a question for TA's Christians:

If you believe things like homosexuality and beastiality are, due to OT prohibitions, not to be done, why are you OK with eating shellfish and wearing garments made from multiple types of fabric?

Deuteronomy is my favorite.
You could go to town with all the do's and don'ts

[Lulletje Rozewater]

http://www.maggags.com/blow-it-out-your-ass.GIF

That was a serious observation about the Mosaic law of the Old Testament kleit posted about (that they only apply to Jews and no one else); if you don't like it, follow the above advice.

Hold it---- did Jesus not say:"(Mat 5:17-20 NRSV (http://davnet.org/kevin/articles/glossary.html#NRSV)) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. {18} For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. {19} Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. {20} For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

That are strong words and we do not follw them

[Cato]

The Christians have spent centuries explaining how Christ "fulfilled" the law (via grace), but I wasn't referring to what the Christians themselves say on the matter- but the Jews themselves, who the 613 religious laws were addressed to by their deity at Mount Sinai.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

The Christians have spent centuries explaining how Christ "fulfilled" the law (via grace), but I wasn't referring to what the Christians themselves say on the matter- but the Jews themselves, who the 613 religious laws were addressed to by their deity at Mount Sinai.

I wish I could answer you.
It would be sacrilegious

[Cato]

I wish I could answer you.
It would be sacrilegious

How so? I'm not a Jew or Christian to get offended by such devlish answering. :)

[Murphy]

Without getting too deep, out of a general lack of desire to participate too much, to paraphrase and put in mundane terms, the Christian teaching is that there are two strains of God's law: the moral and the, for lack of a better word, "material" law.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

How so? I'm not a Jew or Christian to get offended by such devlish answering. :)

You are not the only one here.;)
I do not like to get involved in theological rock throwing on the net

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Without getting too deep, out of a general lack of desire to participate too much, to paraphrase and put in mundane terms, the Christian teaching is that there are two strains of God's law: the moral and the, for lack of a better word, "material" law.

Material law
According to Hobbes, there are nineteen Laws. The first two are expounded in chapter XIV of Leviathan ("of the first and second natural laws; and of contracts"); the others in chapter XV ("of other laws of nature").


The first Law of nature is that every man ought to endeavour peace, as far as he has hope of obtaining it; and when he cannot obtain it, that he may seek and use all helps and advantages of war.
The second Law of nature is that a man be willing, when others are so too, as far forth, as for peace, and defence of himself he shall think it necessary, to lay down this right to all things; and be contented with so much liberty against other men, as he would allow other men against himself.
The third Law is that men perform their covenants made. In this law of nature consisteth the fountain and original of justice... when a covenant is made, then to break it is unjust and the definition of injustice is no other than the not performance of covenant. And whatsoever is not unjust is just.
The fourth Law is that a man which receiveth benefit from another of mere grace, endeavour that he which giveth it, have no reasonable cause to repent him of his good will. Breach of this law is called ingratitude.
The fifth Law is complaisance: that every man strive to accommodate himself to the rest. The observers of this law may be called sociable; the contrary, stubborn, insociable, froward, intractable.
The sixth Law is that upon caution of the future time, a man ought to pardon the offences past of them that repenting, desire it.
The seventh Law is that in revenges, men look not at the greatness of the evil past, but the greatness of the good to follow.
The eighth Law is that no man by deed, word, countenance, or gesture, declare hatred or contempt of another. The breach of which law is commonly called contumely.
The ninth Law is that every man acknowledge another for his equal by nature. The breach of this precept is pride.
The tenth law is that at the entrance into the conditions of peace, no man require to reserve to himself any right, which he is not content should be reserved to every one of the rest. The breach of this precept is arrogance, and observers of the precept are called modest.
The eleventh law is that if a man be trusted to judge between man and man, that he deal equally between them.
The twelfth law is that such things as cannot be divided, be enjoyed in common, if it can be; and if the quantity of the thing permit, without stint; otherwise proportionably to the number of them that have right.
The thirteenth law is the entire right, or else...the first possession (in the case of alternating use), of a thing that can neither be divided nor enjoyed in common should be determined by lottery.
The fourteenth law is that those things which cannot be enjoyed in common, nor divided, ought to be adjudged to the first possessor; and in some cases to the first born, as acquired by lot.
The fifteenth law is that all men that mediate peace be allowed safe conduct.
The sixteenth law is that they that are at controversie, submit their Right to the judgement of an Arbitrator.
The seventeenth law is that no man is a fit Arbitrator in his own cause.
The eighteenth law is that no man should serve as a judge in a case if greater profit, or honour, or pleasure apparently ariseth [for him] out of the victory of one party, than of the other.
The nineteenth law is that in a disagreement of fact, the judge should not give more weight to the testimony of one party than another, and absent other evidence, should give credit to the testimony of other witnesses.

Hobbes's philosophy includes a frontal assault on the founding principles of the earlier natural legal tradition,[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#cite_note-33) disregarding the traditional association of virtue with happiness,[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#cite_note-34) and likewise re-defining "law" to remove any notion of the promotion of the common good.[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#cite_note-35) Hobbes has no use for Aristotle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle)'s association of nature with human perfection, inverting Aristotle's use of the word "nature." Hobbes posits a primitive, unconnected state of nature in which men, having a "natural proclivity...to hurt each other" also have "a Right to every thing, even to one anothers body"[37] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#cite_note-36); and "nothing can be Unjust" in this "warre of every man against every man" in which human life is "solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short."[38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#cite_note-37)
-------------------

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST SECTION ONE
MAN'S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT
CHAPTER THREE
GOD'S SALVATION: LAW AND GRACE
ARTICLE 3
THE CHURCH, MOTHER AND TEACHER
2030 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2030.htm%27%29;) It is in the Church, in communion with all the baptized, that the Christian fulfills his vocation. From the Church he receives the Word of God containing the teachings of "the law of Christ."72 From the Church he receives the grace of the sacraments that sustains him on the "way." From the Church he learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary; he discerns it in the authentic witness of those who live it; he discovers it in the spiritual tradition and long history of the saints who have gone before him and whom the liturgy celebrates in the rhythms of the sanctoral cycle.
2031 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2031.htm%27%29;) The moral life is spiritual worship. We "present [our] bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God,"73 within the Body of Christ that we form and in communion with the offering of his Eucharist. In the liturgy and the celebration of the sacraments, prayer and teaching are conjoined with the grace of Christ to enlighten and nourish Christian activity. As does the whole of the Christian life, the moral life finds its source and summit in the Eucharistic sacrifice.
* (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2032a.htm%27%29;) I. MORAL LIFE AND THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE CHURCH
2032 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2032.htm%27%29;) The Church, the "pillar and bulwark of the truth," "has received this solemn command of Christ from the apostles to announce the saving truth."74 "To the Church belongs the right always and everywhere to announce moral principles, including those pertaining to the social order, and to make judgments on any human affairs to the extent that they are required by the fundamental rights of the human person or the salvation of souls."75
2033 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2033.htm%27%29;) The Magisterium of the Pastors of the Church in moral matters is ordinarily exercised in catechesis and preaching, with the help of the works of theologians and spiritual authors. Thus from generation to generation, under the aegis and vigilance of the pastors, the "deposit" of Christian moral teaching has been handed on, a deposit composed of a characteristic body of rules, commandments, and virtues proceeding from faith in Christ and animated by charity. Alongside the Creed and the Our Father, the basis for this catechesis has traditionally been the Decalogue which sets out the principles of moral life valid for all men.
2034 The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are "authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice."76 The ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.
2035 The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed.77
2036 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2036.htm%27%29;) The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation. In recalling the prescriptions of the natural law, the Magisterium of the Church exercises an essential part of its prophetic office of proclaiming to men what they truly are and reminding them of what they should be before God.78
2037 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2037.htm%27%29;) The law of God entrusted to the Church is taught to the faithful as the way of life and truth. The faithful therefore have the right to be instructed in the divine saving precepts that purify judgment and, with grace, heal wounded human reason.79 They have the duty of observing the constitutions and decrees conveyed by the legitimate authority of the Church. Even if they concern disciplinary matters, these determinations call for docility in charity.
2038 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2038.htm%27%29;) In the work of teaching and applying Christian morality, the Church needs the dedication of pastors, the knowledge of theologians, and the contribution of all Christians and men of good will. Faith and the practice of the Gospel provide each person with an experience of life "in Christ," who enlightens him and makes him able to evaluate the divine and human realities according to the Spirit of God.80 Thus the Holy Spirit can use the humblest to enlighten the learned and those in the highest positions.
2039 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2039.htm%27%29;) Ministries should be exercised in a spirit of fraternal service and dedication to the Church, in the name of the Lord.81 At the same time the conscience of each person should avoid confining itself to individualistic considerations in its moral judgments of the person's own acts. As far as possible conscience should take account of the good of all, as expressed in the moral law, natural and revealed, and consequently in the law of the Church and in the authoritative teaching of the Magisterium on moral questions. Personal conscience and reason should not be set in opposition to the moral law or the Magisterium of the Church.
2040 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2040.htm%27%29;) Thus a true filial spirit toward the Church can develop among Christians. It is the normal flowering of the baptismal grace which has begotten us in the womb of the Church and made us members of the Body of Christ. In her motherly care, the Church grants us the mercy of God which prevails over all our sins and is especially at work in the sacrament of reconciliation. With a mother's foresight, she also lavishes on us day after day in her liturgy the nourishment of the Word and Eucharist of the Lord.
II. THE PRECEPTS OF THE CHURCH
2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:
2042 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2042.htm%27%29;) The first precept ("You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor") requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.82 The second precept ("You shall confess your sins at least once a year") ensures preparation for the Eucharist by the reception of the sacrament of reconciliation, which continues Baptism's work of conversion and forgiveness.83
The third precept ("You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season") guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lord's Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.84

2043 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27cr/2043.htm%27%29;) The fourth precept ("You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church") ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.85 The fifth precept ("You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church") means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.86
The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his own abilities.87


My law

Well, I guess it’s obvious what I’m going to preach on today. "Let the one without sin cast the first stone."
There is another version of that story. It starts the same way. The scribes and Pharisees bring the woman before Jesus, quote the law to him, and ask him what he has to say about it. He writes with his finger in the sand, and then says, "Let the one without sin cast the first stone." At that moment a stone comes flying out of the crowd, hits the woman right in the forehead, and kills her instantly. Jesus turns and says, "Mother, I was trying to make a point."


From Monty python

[Cato]

You are not the only one here.;)
I do not like to get involved in theological rock throwing on the net

But that's why Algore invented the interwebs! :eek: