j2 origin

[supermixedguy]

Did haplogroup j2 originate in modern day iran ? I know alot of levantines and turks have it but they also always say that the highest frequency in the middle east is found among kurds and they are iranic people, also the main haplogroup of iran is j2 so did it originate in iran and expanded to west ? Sorry im no expert

[Linebacker]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

[Nurzat]

I am J2a1b* - paternal side Ukrainian

this exact haplogroup, J2a1b* (former J2f or J2a4h) is the most common J2 in non-Mediterranean Europe of what I saw, from the British Isles to Germany to Ukraine. this exact haplogroup is also found as far East as among the Uyghurs

[Equilibrium]

All wrong.

According to tradition J2 originates from a legendary highlander that came down from some mountain in west-Asia with the mission to hard-counter the hyperborean beasts from the north that had settled in the southern lands.

A reconstruction made by the Royal Institute of Dinarology:

http://abload.de/img/bermenschauraplubi.png

[supermixedguy]

So its originally from the levant ?

[Highlands]

I think it spread with a Caucasus-like component, hence found in Southern Asia and Europe.

[Equilibrium]

So its originally from the levant ?

There currently is not enough data available to define the regional origin so precisely. Near East will have to suffice for now.

[jpz79]

No question it originated in Iran, and I have been suggested that for about a decade, now. The 2012 high res study by Grungi, clearly shows a high level J2 diversity, including the ultra-rare J2* (M172), found in the southwest, it's immediate derivative (also rare) J2a* (M410). Not to mention R diversity and clades not found anywhere near the plateau, if any other populations. Coupled with archaeological evidence, it's as-ever so clear that Neolithic migrations outward from the region of Mesopatamia; (including of W. Iran and E. Turkey) founded much of European gene pool.

[Arch Hades]

3 possible sources for the homeland IMO

Mesopatamia
The Levant
The Caucuses


Iran is too far west, the Arabian Peninsula is too far South, Southern Europe too far North

[Shah-Jehan]

3 possible sources for the homeland IMO

Mesopatamia
The Levant
The Caucuses


Iran is too far west, the Arabian Peninsula is too far South, Southern Europe too far North

What about central Anatolia?

[zarzian]

3 possible sources for the homeland IMO

Mesopatamia
The Levant
The Caucuses


Iran is too far west, the Arabian Peninsula is too far South, Southern Europe too far North

Im guessing you meant Iran is too Far East, which is baseless as the Caucasus is North of western Iran. The Zagros is a perfect place of origin for J2, who evolved alongside the G Levatine farmers.

[Black Wolf]

Im guessing you meant Iran is too Far East, which is baseless as the Caucasus is North of western Iran. The Zagros is a perfect place of origin for J2, who evolved alongside the G Levatine farmers.

This is probably likely. Hopefully soon ancient DNA will tell us some of the story of J2.

[Black Wolf]

All wrong.

According to tradition J2 originates from a legendary highlander that came down from some mountain in west-Asia with the mission to hard-counter the hyperborean beasts from the north that had settled in the southern lands.

A reconstruction made by the Royal Institute of Dinarology:

http://abload.de/img/bermenschauraplubi.png

This is the gospel truth! :P

[Kamal900]

Im guessing you meant Iran is too Far East, which is baseless as the Caucasus is North of western Iran. The Zagros is a perfect place of origin for J2, who evolved alongside the G Levatine farmers.

Half of the Iranian Arabs belong to F and J2 haplogroups while the rest belong to R1, R1a, G and J-M172:

"Sampling NRY diversity, it was found that the Y-DNA haplogroups F and J2 are carried at very high frequency among the Iranian Arabs - those two markers alone accounting for over half of Iranian Arab haplogroups. This high ratio of haplogroup F, in particular, relates them, in a genetic sense, to peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean and of the Barbary Coast, while an elevated frequency of haplogroup J-M172 is typical of Near Eastern peoples and reflective of the genetic legacy of early agriculturalists in, and their diffusion from, the Neolithic Near East c. 8000-4000 BCE. Haplogroup R1a1, and R1, typical of Indo-Iranian groups, is also important, occurring in over 11% of the sample; haplogroup G is present in over 5%."

"As part of a continuing investigation of the extent to which the genetic and linguistic relationships of populations are correlated, we analyzed mtDNA HV1 sequences, eleven Y chromosome bi-allelic markers, and 9 Y-STR loci in two neighboring groups from the southwest of Iran who speak languages belonging to different families: Indo-European-speaking Bakhtiari, and Semitic-speaking Arabs. Both mtDNA and the Y chromosome, showed a close relatedness of these groups with each other and with neighboring geographic groups, irrespective of the language spoken. Moreover, Semitic-speaking North African groups are more distant genetically from Semitic-speaking groups from the Near East and Iran. Thus, geographical proximity better explains genetic relatedness between populations than does linguistic relatedness in this part of the world."

Nasidze, I., Quinque, D., Rahmani, M., Alemohamad, S. A. and Stoneking, M. (2008), Close Genetic Relationship Between Semitic-speaking and Indo-European-speaking Groups in Iran. Annals of Human Genetics, 72: 241–252.
R. Spencer Wells et al., "The Eurasian Heartland: A continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (August 28, 2001
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2007.00413.x/abstract

[Black Wolf]

Half of the Iranian Arabs belong to F and J2 haplogroups while the rest belong to R1, R1a, G and J-M172:

"Sampling NRY diversity, it was found that the Y-DNA haplogroups F and J2 are carried at very high frequency among the Iranian Arabs - those two markers alone accounting for over half of Iranian Arab haplogroups. This high ratio of haplogroup F, in particular, relates them, in a genetic sense, to peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean and of the Barbary Coast, while an elevated frequency of haplogroup J-M172 is typical of Near Eastern peoples and reflective of the genetic legacy of early agriculturalists in, and their diffusion from, the Neolithic Near East c. 8000-4000 BCE. Haplogroup R1a1, and R1, typical of Indo-Iranian groups, is also important, occurring in over 11% of the sample; haplogroup G is present in over 5%."

"As part of a continuing investigation of the extent to which the genetic and linguistic relationships of populations are correlated, we analyzed mtDNA HV1 sequences, eleven Y chromosome bi-allelic markers, and 9 Y-STR loci in two neighboring groups from the southwest of Iran who speak languages belonging to different families: Indo-European-speaking Bakhtiari, and Semitic-speaking Arabs. Both mtDNA and the Y chromosome, showed a close relatedness of these groups with each other and with neighboring geographic groups, irrespective of the language spoken. Moreover, Semitic-speaking North African groups are more distant genetically from Semitic-speaking groups from the Near East and Iran. Thus, geographical proximity better explains genetic relatedness between populations than does linguistic relatedness in this part of the world."

Nasidze, I., Quinque, D., Rahmani, M., Alemohamad, S. A. and Stoneking, M. (2008), Close Genetic Relationship Between Semitic-speaking and Indo-European-speaking Groups in Iran. Annals of Human Genetics, 72: 241–252.
R. Spencer Wells et al., "The Eurasian Heartland: A continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (August 28, 2001
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2007.00413.x/abstract

Those so called F lineages among Iranian Arabs are in fact pretty much all J1.

[supermixedguy]

I guess its really hard to tell
since this haplogroup is very spread and also one of the most important for the spread of civilisation
but the final suggested areas are
1-the levant
2-north western iran
3-the caucasus mountains
4-mesotopeia

[Black Wolf]

Within the next year or so we should have some ancient Y-DNA from West Asia and the Near East. I think that it is likely that Y-DNA haplogroup J2 and especially the J2a subclade originated somewhere near the Zagros mountains.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Hard to say but I guess caucas mountains or possibly W Iran.

(it's not easy to tell with any clades, really)

[Black Wolf]

Somewhere in the area of what is now Iran seems quite likely. At some point in the not so distant future hopefully ancient DNA will give us some clues.