punjab culture and middle east

[supermixedguy]

Is north indian and espicially punjabi culture heavily influenced by middle eastern culture? Im asking because of shared turbans , belly dancing and even releigon since punjabis mostly muslim and sikh and sikhism is originally a mixture of islam and hinduisim and also if anybody watches bollywood movies will notice that the language they speak have arabic words
add to all that they kind look similar
and the music too I mean in the us you cant differentate between the two cultures
what do you think????

[jatt]

only effinity is there with Pakistani Punjab .. indian Punjabis are different

[randomguy1235]

The Middle East is very broad, so there is no universal Middle Eastern culture, similar to how there's no universal East Asian, European, South Asian, etc culture. Anyways, I'm sure there are some Iranic influences in punjabi culture, but there is a clear difference between the two.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The Middle East is very broad, so there is no universal Middle Eastern culture, similar to how there's no universal East Asian, European, South Asian, etc culture. Anyways, I'm sure there are some Iranic influences in punjabi culture, but there is a clear difference between the two.

True, Technically, the Middle east can be disected into 3 or 4 sections.

Gulf Region

Iraq + Sham (Levantine) + (Maybe egypt)

And Maghreeb Al-Arabi (North Africa)

[Óttar]

Is north indian and espicially punjabi culture heavily influenced by middle eastern culture? Im asking because of shared turbans , belly dancing and even releigon since punjabis mostly muslim and sikh and sikhism is originally a mixture of islam and hinduisim
In the book "A Year Amongst the Persians" by Edward Granville Brown there is a Persian Sufi order with members wearing turbans, long hair and beards, daggers, and iron bracelets. The similarity to the Sikhs is obvious. The Islamic influence on the Sikhs is Sufi mysticism and aesthetics only. The extreme Northwest of the Indian subcontinent has always been open to Iranic influences since ancient times. This predates the advent of Islam brought by Turkics and later Persians.

[randomguy1235]

True, Technically, the Middle east can be disected into 3 or 4 sections.

Gulf Region

Iraq + Sham (Levantine) + (Maybe egypt)

And Maghreeb Al-Arabi (North Africa)

I agree, although it'd be more like:

- Egypt

- Northwest Africa/Maghreb

- Shaam + North Iraq

- East Jordan + West Iraq

- Gulf region

[gum_dum]

Indian punjabi culture is just like hindus. See this video for Indian punjab culture


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKO80PskcKI

Pak punjabi culture is different, our language also different and more refined thanks to great poets like Waris Shah.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85meH4C4fLY

pure/standard punjabi speech in Pak masjid


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRBbCyevekM

[Black Wolf]

Indian punjabi culture is just like hindus. See this video for Indian punjab culture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKO80PskcKI

Pak punjabi culture is different, our language also different and more refined thanks to great poets like Waris Shah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85meH4C4fLY

I am curious about something. Do Punjabi people belong to clans and tribes? How is Punjabi society organized traditionally?

[gum_dum]

I am curious about something. Do Punjabi people belong to clans and tribes? How is Punjabi society organized traditionally?

Now Pak punjab after partition is more diverse thanks to migrants from India in to Pak punjab cities. But overall society in rural areas are like this

Zamindars/landholders: gujjars, rajputs, jats, awans, arains, dogar etc
trading biraderi: sheikh, khoja etc
artisans castes: tarkhans etc
menial castes: dalits, mussalis, machis etc

[Black Wolf]

Now Pak punjab after partition is more diverse thanks to migrants from India in to Pak punjab cities. But overall society in rural areas are like this

Zamindars/landholders: gujjars, rajputs, jats, awans, arains, dogar etc
trading biraderi: sheikh, khoja etc
artisans castes: tarkhans etc
menial castes: dalits, mussalis, machis etc

Ahh I see castes. Okay thank you. :)

[jatt]

black wolf dude don't b fooled by the Pakistani troll.. Pakistanis have nothing to do with Punjabi culture... people don't even know there are Punjabis in Pakistan.. Punjabi culture is what it is because of Sikhs... ask any neutral... we have nothing to do with middle east.. our culture influences others not the other way round. turbans been worn in india way before than in middle east. Punjabi is other name for Sikhs.

[supermixedguy]

black wolf dude don't b fooled by the Pakistani troll.. Pakistanis have nothing to do with Punjabi culture... people don't even know there are Punjabis in Pakistan.. Punjabi culture is what it is because of Sikhs... ask any neutral... we have nothing to do with middle east.. our culture influences others not the other way round. turbans been worn in india way before than in middle east. Punjabi is other name for Sikhs.

Are you sure?

[Tyrone Jackson]

I heard Pakistan Punjabis reject Punjabis culture and call themselves Arab and Persian.

[supermixedguy]

I mean the oldest cultures were found in med east such as sumerians, akkadian, sabaeans etc
and all of them wore turbans and alots of them had belly dancing also sumerian religion influneced islam wich influenced sikhism also the language spoken in the movies is kind of arabic Influenced
im not saying your I just want prove
sorry if its long bro

[supermixedguy]

Im not saying your wrong*

[jatt]

I heard Pakistan Punjabis reject Punjabis culture and call themselves Arab and Persian.

yep its true.. there is no Punjabi language newspaper in Pakistan.. Punjabi is not being taught in school and Punjabi culture which is totally effed by Arabic mixture

[Tyrone Jackson]

I mean the oldest cultures were found in med east such as sumerians, akkadian, sabaeans etc
and all of them wore turbans and alots of them had belly dancing also sumerian religion influneced islam wich influenced sikhism also the language spoken in the movies is kind of arabic Influenced
im not saying your I just want prove
sorry if its long bro
Punjabi and other North Indian languages have absolutely no Arab influence. Arabs only ruled unto Pakistan, they never ruled in India. Our languages do have a very tiny Persian influence.

[gum_dum]

Are you sure?

Well he is kind of right even if trolling, we don't have sikh culture in Pakistan. Sikhs have copied our poets in sikh quran. Pak punjabi culture is islamic since at least 800 years ago when Baba Farid was born. Sikhs is new religion, they were mostly east punjabi or haryana hindus in British Punjab who converted to sikhsm. very few people in west punjab which is current day Pak punjab converted to sikhsm. Even though sikhsm was born in west punjab by khatri gurus. Most of converts were east punjabi jats starting from 17th century.

Plus they are removing arabic/persian words and adopting sanskrit/hindi words. But important sikhism words like khalsa is still arabic in origin.

[jatt]

I mean the oldest cultures were found in med east such as sumerians, akkadian, sabaeans etc
and all of them wore turbans and alots of them had belly dancing also sumerian religion influneced islam wich influenced sikhism also the language spoken in the movies is kind of arabic Influenced
im not saying your I just want prove
sorry if its long bro yep we have Arabic and perrsian loan words but belly dancing is not punjabi culture.

[gum_dum]

I mean the oldest cultures were found in med east such as sumerians, akkadian, sabaeans etc
and all of them wore turbans and alots of them had belly dancing also sumerian religion influneced islam wich influenced sikhism also the language spoken in the movies is kind of arabic Influenced
im not saying your I just want prove
sorry if its long bro

Because of muslims hindi have many persian/arabic words. Bollywood hindi especially is dominated by hindi/arabic words, so thats why you see similarity. Never heard of belly dance but turbans are quite common in rural areas of Pakistan.

[supermixedguy]

What about other stuff?

[jatt]

Punjabi and other North Indian languages have absolutely no Arab influence. Arabs only ruled unto Pakistan, they never ruled in India. Our languages do have a very tiny Persian influence.
I don't think supermixed guy have intent of malice.. its okif we have little bit of influence its possible to be influenced by neighbours

[jatt]

Well he is kind of right even if trolling, we don't have sikh culture in Pakistan. Sikhs have copied our poets in sikh quran. Pak punjabi culture is islamic since at least 800 years ago when Baba Farid was born. Sikhs is new religion, they were mostly east punjabi or haryana hindus in British Punjab who converted to sikhsm. very few people in west punjab which is current day Pak punjab converted to sikhsm. Even though sikhsm was born in west punjab by khatri gurus. Most of converts were east punjabi jats starting from 17th century.

Plus they are removing arabic/persian words and adopting sanskrit/hindi words. But important sikhism words like khalsa is still arabic in origin.

:picard2::picard1: @ Sikhs copying Pakistanis.... stop spreading misinformation. when people think about Punjabi automatically picture of Sikh come to mind not Pakistani..

[gum_dum]

:picard2::picard1: @ Sikhs copying Pakistanis.... stop spreading misinformation. when people think about Punjabi automatically picture of Sikh come to mind not Pakistani..

meh, i already said we have nothing to do with your Indian punjab culture. Our culture is islamic but sikhs did copy paste Pakistani poets poems in sikh quran.

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/farid.html

[jatt]

meh, i already said we have nothing to do with your Indian punjab culture. Our culture is islamic but sikhs did copy paste Pakistani poets poems in sikh quran.

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/farid.html

baba farid is frowned about by many Pakistanis and is considered unislamic...

he even said these line ... NAH KAHU AB KEE .. NAH KAHU TABB KEE.. AGAR NAH HOTAY GURU GOBIND SINGH SUNNAT HOTI SABKI...

do u believe in him now.

[gum_dum]

baba farid is frowned about by many Pakistanis and is considered unislamic...

he even said these line ... NAH KAHU AB KEE .. NAH KAHU TABB KEE.. AGAR NAH HOTAY GURU GOBIND SINGH SUNNAT HOTI SABKI...

do u believe in him now.

:picard1: Baba Farid was born centuries before any guru let alone gobind singh. And Pakistanis hating baba Farid lol i will not say anything else ;)

If not for gobind singh most of Indian punjab would have been hindu instead of sikh. So not much different.

[jatt]

:picard1: Baba Farid was born centuries before any guru let alone gobind singh. And Pakistanis hating baba Farid lol i will not say anything else ;)

If not for gobind singh most of Indian punjab would have been hindu instead of sikh. So not much different.so whats the matter with being hindu.. you talk as if by being a muslim you have reached the moon.

[jatt]

back to topic Punjabi culture in Pakistan is dead .. they have Urdu culture

[gum_dum]

so whats the matter with being hindu.. you talk as if by being a muslim you have reached the moon.

Nothing matter thats why i said instead of islam you guys would have remained hindus.

[supermixedguy]

Thanx jatt I defenitley dont have any intent of malice Im just really intrested in indian and mid eastern culture thats why I ask alot about both
thanx for the info too bro

[Shah-Jehan]

only effinity is there with Pakistani Punjab .. indian Punjabis are different

right....even the modern name of the region "Punjab" derived from conglomeration of the Persian/Farsi word Punj meaning five and ab meaning water in reference to the 5 great rivers in the region.

[gum_dum]

right....even the modern name of the region "Punjab" derived from conglomeration of the Persian/Farsi word Punj meaning five and ab meaning water in reference to the 5 great rivers in the region.

Yes, i believe if not for sikhsm then Indian punjab today would have been one big Haryana state. They are not punjabis in historical sense which always meant people from country of 5 rivers. They barely have 2 and are known as doabis. Their culture is sikhsm which have nothing to do with punjabi culture. Its just a 300 years old religion, punjab culture is thousands of years ago. Sikh live in their own buble.

[Berlin88]

The extreme Northwest of the Indian subcontinent has always been open to Iranic influences since ancient times. This predates the advent of Islam brought by Turkics and later Persians.

The "extreme Northwest" area historians refer to would correspond to modern day Pakistan [Kashmir, Sind, Baluchistan, Punjab, N.W.F.P.] but its presumed by historians that the Achaemenids and Sasanians had cultural links with western India far south as Maharashtra too. http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/gujarat Outside of cultural influences, the Dasht-e-Lut and Dasht-e-Kavir deserts in Iran provided strong barriers to human gene flow.

West Asian influences on India (modern nation-state) were historically, and still are confined mainly to the western peripheries of South Asia which face towards the Arabian Sea (Gujarat-Konkan coast with infamous Gulf of Cambay and further south, Malabar coast of Kerala). Arab and Persian merchants, refugees, mercenaries and travelers from Red Sea and Persian Gulf regions, entered India first through the ports of Broach in pre-Islamic times, and then through the Gulf of Cambay during Ibn Batuta's time. Aside from Malabar in the south, these were their entry points into India.

Then also, Zoroastrian refugees of Iran immigrated to the western peripheries of South Asia (Sindh, Gujarat) because the Thar desert and Hindu Kush presented formidable barriers to movement due to hostile environments there. Baghdadi Jews, Europeans and Armenian Christians from Julfa entered India through Surat.

"Indus Valley and later in the time of Bahram II, the Sassanian Empire comprised "the lands at the middle course of the Indus and its mouth, Katch, Kathiawar, Malwa and the adjoining hinterland of these countries."

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CAQIAQAAIAAJ&q=the+lands+at+the+middle+course+of+the+Indus+and+ its+mouth,+Katch,+Kathiawar,+Malwa+and+the+adjoini ng+hinterland%27+of+these+countries.&dq=the+lands+at+the+middle+course+of+the+Indus+and +its+mouth,+Katch,+Kathiawar,+Malwa+and+the+adjoin ing+hinterland%27+of+these+countries.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5DoHVaKYE4X-Ut2ugNgL&redir_esc=y

[Chocolate_Hound]

Meh, Punjabi culture is still fundamentally Indian. Turbans though are a Persian invention, so it is clear that the two regions have had significant contact with each other. They live in a transition zone with the Middle East however, so I could imagine they are familiar with Islamic cultures, sort of how Greeks are familiar with Turks. So Punjabis aren’t MENA, but they are well aware of MENA culture.

[Chocolate_Hound]

They’re not that similar. Turbans were a Persian invention but the Sikh style is visibly different from the Muslim version. Punjabis in almost all respects are closer to other Indians than they are even to Persians. They are their own thing, they don’t remind me anything of Muslims.

[Corporate_Demolisher]

India has nothing to do with the Middle East. Arabs probably have more in common with Southern Europeans than they do with Indians.

[Chocolate_Hound]

black wolf dude don't b fooled by the Pakistani troll.. Pakistanis have nothing to do with Punjabi culture... people don't even know there are Punjabis in Pakistan.. Punjabi culture is what it is because of Sikhs... ask any neutral... we have nothing to do with middle east.. our culture influences others not the other way round. turbans been worn in india way before than in middle east. Punjabi is other name for Sikhs.

Actually turbans aren't worn in India at all except in Punjab. Sikhs make up only 1% of the country's population. Most denominations involving Hinduism, Jainism, etc. do not require any sort of headdress for the men. Turbans were a Persian invention, so it's clear the influence in North India is a result of Iranic exposure.

But obviously as MENA is such a broad region it heavily depends on which groups we're comparing them to. Levantines? Very little if any similarities. Likewise with Turks.