Genetics of the French

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

So, the French (minus recent immigrants from North Africa, Middle East, also minus descendants of other European immigrants)....who contributed most to their genetics? Germanic Franks, for which France gets it's name...or do they have more Gaulish blood? Which nationality are the French most closest related to genetically?

[Ivan Kramskoï]

France today is about :
- 20 % non European -> these people are not really french
- 80 % European (50-60% with no recent other European ancestries ; 20-30% with french and other European ancestries, most of these people are totally invisible).

Concerning European french most of them can trace back their ancestries to celtic people ( I read once it represents about 80% of french people genetics).
Germanic influence is present evrywhere in Frane but in a greater quantity in the North and the North east.
Latin influence everywhere but mainly in the south.

France is a European country of mainly celtic people dominated by less numerous germanic people (gave France its name and huge impact in laws) and latin people (gave France is language).

[Tooting Carmen]

France today is about :
- 20 % non European -> these people are not really french

According to French law they are. Besides, without them, where would France get its football and basketball players from? xD xD In fact, even the rugby team has got noticeably more non-white over the last 2-3 years as well. Nor do I agree with the idea that any European can pass as French - no offence to you, but I think most Slavs would look deeply atypical in France, for a start. Anyway, apart from that, yours was actually quite a good post.:thumb001:

[Ivan Kramskoï]

Nor do I agree with the idea that any European can pass as French - no offence to you,
It's not what I meant.
What I meant is that with the situation in France right now (appaling) people of European descent in France are totally assimilated and their "frenchness" is contested by none.
I agree many Europeans can't pass as true french but more European than you think can pass for average french for untrained eyes.
For an exemple nobody has ever suspected my mother who has 0% of french blood to be anything but french when considering her physical appearance.
For me it's the same.

[Tooting Carmen]

It's not what I meant.
What I meant is that with the situation in France right now (appaling) people of European descent in France are totally assimilated and their "frenchness" is contested by none.
I agree many Europeans can't pass as true french but more European than you think can pass for average french for untrained eyes.
For an exemple nobody has ever suspected my mother who has 0% of french blood to be anything but french when considering her physical appearance.
For me it's the same.

Well as someone who sees Polish and, to some extent, other Eastern European immigrants regularly, I'd say that at least 60% cannot pass in Britain whatsoever (it has nothing to do with pigmentation - Poles and Brits actually have roughly the same ratio of lighter and darker individuals - and everything to do with facial features and physique). Therefore, I cannot imagine that their overlap with the native French would be especially substantial either.

In addition (closer to topic), where do the small number of (supposedly) fully native French who look MENA get their looks from, e.g. Thomas Hollande and Clement Grenier?

[Ivan Kramskoï]

Well as someone who sees Polish and, to some extent, other Eastern European immigrants regularly, I'd say that at least 60% cannot pass in Britain whatsoever (it has nothing to do with pigmentation - Poles and Brits actually have roughly the same ratio of lighter and darker individuals - and everything to do with facial features and physique). Therefore, I cannot imagine that their overlap with the native French would be especially substantial either.
In addition (closer to topic), where do the small number of (supposedly) fully native French who look MENA get their looks from, e.g. Thomas Hollande and Clement Grenier?
I admitt I was not completly honest, as my Russian ancestors don't look like the stereotype russian peasant look, we are "darker" and with finer features.
There is a myth of minor mena admixture is some part of south western France, it might explain their looks.
Where I live no French has that kind of look. Most of them are atlanto med + something else.

[Tooting Carmen]

As I have said many times before, to me France is the ultimate (and perhaps only) hybrid of Northern and Southern Europe - the main difference between it and its Southern neighbours being that, notwithstanding what I just said about a small minority of French people themselves looking exotic and MENA, the number of French people with borderline European phenotypes such as Gracile Med, Berid, South Med, East Med, Armenoid etc. is very much reduced compared to what can be found on the other side of the Pyrenees and Alps. At the same time, it is also true that the percentage of blondes in France is the lowest in Northern Europe, bar possibly some parts of the British Isles.

[Jehan]

For the black in french national team, a good proportion of them came from islands in differents part of the world. Their ancestors became frenchs before the creation of a lot of country in the world.
For the rugby national team. You can take in the team people who haven't your nationality if they play in your championships since 2 or 3 years.

To be honest, except the one who have particular or stereotype look, most of the european can more or less pass as french.

[Styrian Mujo]

By 'blood' most French should be a mixture of Celts,Romans and Germans (Franks). You could say that French are by culture just Roman-German since the Celts no longer exist.

[Jerban]

France today is about :
- 20 % non European -> these people are not really french
- 80 % European (50-60% with no recent other European ancestries ; 20-30% with french and other European ancestries)

Source?

[Ivan Kramskoï]

Source?
My eyes.

[Jerban]

My eyes.

Your eyes are not a study.

[Ivan Kramskoï]

Your eyes are not a study.
I know France betterthan you.
Also considering that 1/3 of all births in France is due to non European people and considering the higher fertility rate in those populations and the fact that they are younger we can establisg a euro pop in Francee of aout 80 %.

[Gaston]

French people are mostly Northern Europeans (core modern Europeans) with a slight Near Eastern shift. Basque people on the french side are surprisingly more European (WHG) than French people because the latter are more ANE-admixed through Yamnaya (IE speakers) influx in the bronze age.

Based on my observations, a big part of central and southwestern French are in an intermediate position between Basque and the rest of French people. Southeasternmost French from the Rhodanian region are only slightly more Near Eastern-shifted and as ANE-admixed. The northern part of the country is more blurry because there are no natural frontiers, although the Rhine river could have played this role before Germanic invasions ("wandering" according to Germans :D) because Western Germans and Southern Dutch are intermediate between French people and their respective nationality.

Some French people might have very distant North African ancestry (medieval), but it's always very minor.

[Pendragon]

So, the French (minus recent immigrants from North Africa, Middle East, also minus descendants of other European immigrants)....who contributed most to their genetics? Germanic Franks, for which France gets it's name...or do they have more Gaulish blood? Which nationality are the French most closest related to genetically?

To answer this question, it is necessary to detail by region, otherwise it makes no sense:
The Channel coast: nearest British, Other North-French, closer to the Belgiam, South Germans, Swiss, eventualy Central Europe
Southwest, most Basque or Iberian.
Southeast: unknown, no genetic autosomal study has investigated the Southeast French!

Culturally, first Celtic (Gaulish), Aquitain (South-Ouest) and Roman later.
The Francque influence is limited, a few words are going into the French language, but still mainly of Latin origin.

On the other hand, family names are mostly German origin. Indeed, these names come from the time when the German names was fashionable (X-XII century).

[Jerban]

I know France betterthan you.
Also considering that 1/3 of all births in France is due to non European people and considering the higher fertility rate in those populations and the fact that they are younger we can establisg a euro pop in Francee of aout 80 %.

Arrête de raconter tes conneries et ramène moi.une source fiable 80% lol.

[Not a Cop]

French people are mostly Northern Europeans (core modern Europeans) with a slight Near Eastern shift. Basque people on the french side are surprisingly more European (WHG) than French people because the latter are more ANE-admixed through Yamnaya (IE speakers) influx in the bronze age.

Based on my observations, a big part of central and southwestern French are in an intermediate position between Basque and the rest of French people. Southeasternmost French from the Rhodanian region are only slightly more Near Eastern-shifted and as ANE-admixed. The northern part of the country is more blurry because there are no natural frontiers, although the Rhine river could have played this role before Germanic invasions ("wandering" according to Germans :D) because Western Germans and Southern Dutch are intermediate between French people and their respective nationality.

Some French people might have very distant North African ancestry (medieval), but it's always very minor.

Do you have regionalised K8 averages for French people?

[Jehan]

Arrête de raconter tes conneries et ramène moi.une source fiable 80% lol.

Les statistics raciales sont interdites en France, il est impossible pour lui de fournir une source fiable.

Quels sont tes estimations?

[Jerban]

Les statistics raciales sont interdites en France, il est impossible pour lui de fournir une source fiable.

Quels sont tes estimations?

1/3 de nouveaux nés d'origine non française reste imprévisible, 1/8 ou 1/9 c'est plus probable, je dirais un bon 80% est français d'origine française, 10% d'origine européenne, italienne, portugaise, espagnole, polonaise... Et le reste est mélangé entre Maghreb, Asie, Afrique...
Juste pour info je viens de Paris et dans ma zone, c'est moins étranger de ce que l'on cherche à nous faire croire.

[Pendragon]

Paris, Londres, New-York sont des mégalopoles, et ne sont pas représentatives des pays auxquels elles sont capitales...

[Rudel]

Germanic Franks, for which France gets it's name...or do they have more Gaulish blood?
Neither. The genetic background of France is pretty archaic.


I know France betterthan you.
Also considering that 1/3 of all births in France is due to non European people and considering the higher fertility rate in those populations and the fact that they are younger we can establisg a euro pop in Francee of aout 80 %.
20% n'en est pas moins assez exagéré.


On the other hand, family names are mostly German origin. Indeed, these names come from the time when the German names was fashionable (X-XII century).
(In English for the uneducated) Names derivating during centuries from Frankish aren't exactly German. Louis and Eudes aren't any more German than Ludwig and Odo are French.

[firely]

1/3 de nouveaux nés d'origine non française reste imprévisible, 1/8 ou 1/9 c'est plus probable, je dirais un bon 80% est français d'origine française, 10% d'origine européenne, italienne, portugaise, espagnole, polonaise... Et le reste est mélangé entre Maghreb, Asie, Afrique...
Juste pour info je viens de Paris et dans ma zone, c'est moins étranger de ce que l'on cherche à nous faire croire.


Je suis tout à fait d'accord. France n'est pas Marseille ou même Paris - des villes avec des cités énormes, pleines d'étrangers 2-3eme génération.

I agree completely. France is not Marseille nor even Paris, with their huge ghetto-like (I don't know the word in English) suburban parts full with 2nd and 3rd generation foreigners

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

My eyes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn977W9HjWM

[Ivan Kramskoï]

1/3 de nouveaux nés d'origine non française reste imprévisible, 1/8 ou 1/9 c'est plus probable, je dirais un bon 80% est français d'origine française, 10% d'origine européenne, italienne, portugaise, espagnole, polonaise... Et le reste est mélangé entre Maghreb, Asie, Afrique...
Juste pour info je viens de Paris et dans ma zone, c'est moins étranger de ce que l'on cherche à nous faire croire.
Les personnes d'origine francaise et europenne (hors France) represente bien plus que 10% des naissances (par francais j'implique au moins 4 grands parents francais par le sang.
La d'ou je viens au moins la moitié des "blancs" avaient au moins un grand parent pas francais de souche (principalement italien mais aussi d'autres pays d'Europe du sud et d'Europe de l'est).