Preliminary results of the Dutch General Elections

[The Lawspeaker]

The lower house has 150 seats.
It looks like an electoral massacre:

Christian Democrats (CDA) (41) -20 (21)
Labour (PvdA) (33) -2 (31)
Socialist Party (SP) (25) -9 (16)
Liberals (VVD) (22) +9 (31)
Freedom Party (PVV) (9) +13 (22)
Greens (GrL) (7) +4 (11)
Christian Union (CU) (6) -1 (5)
Democrats' 66 (D66) (3) +7 (10)
SGP (2) - (2)
"Animal Party" (PvdD) (2) -1 (1)
TON (Verdonk- who left the VVD) (0) - 1 (0)

Source (http://nos.nl/artikel/163227-voorlopige-prognose-vvd-en-pvda-even-groot.html)

[poiuytrewq0987]

The lower house has 150 seats.
It looks like an electoral massacre:

Christian Democrats (CDA) (41) -20 (21)
Labour (PvdA) (33) -2 (31)
Socialist Party (SP) (25) -9 (16)
Liberals (VVD) (22) +9 (31)
Freedom Party (PVV) (9) +13 (22)
Greens (GrL) (7) +4 (11)
Christian Union (CU) (6) -1 (5)
Democrats' 66 (D66) (3) +7 (10)
SGP (2) - (2)
"Animal Party" (PvdD) (2) -1 (1)
TON (Verdonk- who left the VVD) (0) - 1 (0)

Source (http://nos.nl/artikel/163227-voorlopige-prognose-vvd-en-pvda-even-groot.html)

Looks like no one is forming a majority in the parliament?

[The Lawspeaker]

Looks like no one is forming a majority in the parliament?
Well the thing is. That in this country we form coalition governments and it looks like we will have a very hard time finding a coalition.. The left and right are rather polarized at the moment and in particular the left is fiercely anti-PVV.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Well the thing is. That in this country we form coalition governments and it looks like we will have a very hard time finding a coalition.. The left and right are rather polarized at the moment and in particular the left is fiercely anti-PVV.

I can see the Christian Democrats form a coalition with PVV unless they're a leftie party?

[The Lawspeaker]

I can see the Christian Democrats form a coalition with PVV unless they're a leftie party?
The party leader and now former premier Mr. Balkenende had said some time ago that the CDA will not work together with the PVV. But then again.. after losing such a catastrophic defeat I believe that Mr. Balkenende's days are numbered.

[The Lawspeaker]

It has just been announced on the tv that Mr. Balkenende has resigned.
It's the end of an era.... and good fucking riddance ! :D

http://plaatjes.moppentap.nl/plaatjes/a/174.jpg

[The Lawspeaker]

The results as of yet. 88.5 percent of the votes counted:
The most important parties: VVD has 31 seats, PvdA 30. PVV 24 ! SP 15, CDA 21.

[Groenewolf]

That would make an one seat majority in the Second Chamber for a VVD-PVV-CDA coalition. However since the PVV is not represented in the Senate this would become unlikely. And considering how strongly the other parties presented themselves as anti-Wilders, or at least the bigger ones, the change that they could get auxiliary support in the Senate from other parties is small.

Wilders can talk about wanting to take part in a coalition all he wants, but thanks to his own decision of not taking part in the provincial ellections he has dramticaly lowerd his changes, no matter how well he did in this election. So if there comes a horror-cabinet of PvdA-Groenlinks-D'66-VVD/CDA then he would be in part to blame for it.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

That would make an one seat majority in the Second Chamber for a VVD-PVV-CDA coalition. However since the PVV is not represented in the Senate this would become unlikely. And considering how strongly the other parties presented themselves as anti-Wilders, or at least the bigger ones, the change that they could get auxiliary support in the Senate from other parties is small.

Wilders can talk about wanting to take part in a coalition all he wants, but thanks to his own decision of not taking part in the provincial ellections he has dramticaly lowerd his changes, no matter how well he did in this election. So if there comes a horror-cabinet of PvdA-Groenlinks-D'66-VVD/CDA then he would be in part to blame for it.


On NOS this was suggested too.

[Svanhild]

Who of the Dutch members voted for Wilders? German media say the chance for a contribution to the new government is kinda low.

[The Ripper]

Wilders recently said to The Jerusalem Post that Israel's struggle "against Jihad" (:icon_yawn:) is the forefront of the same struggle Europe is supposedly engaged in.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=177901


“Israel is the canary in the coal mine,” Wilders said in a recent telephone interview with The Jerusalem Post, ahead of Wednesday’s elections in the Netherlands. “The jihad against Israel isn’t against Israel only. It’s against the whole West.”

Its great that he wants to stop immigration from Muslim countries, but he can't honestly believe what he said there. To claim that innocent Israel is being attacked by the forces of Jihad, because Islam is waging war against the west... Well he just has the whole picture upside down, and I can't trust someone like that.

[The Lawspeaker]

Who of the Dutch members voted for Wilders? German media say the chance for a contribution to the new government is kinda low.

I have. And they are thinking about a "purple pluss" cabinet of basically the VVD, PvdA, Groen Links and D66- thus working around Wilders and establishing a cordon sanitaire and basically ignoring the voter.

[Imperivm]

I herd Wilders is married to a Jewish woman, is that true?

[The Lawspeaker]

I herd Wilders is married to a Jewish woman, is that true?
Correct.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Wilders recently said to The Jerusalem Post that Israel's struggle "against Jihad" (:icon_yawn:) is the forefront of the same struggle Europe is supposedly engaged in.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=177901



Its great that he wants to stop immigration from Muslim countries, but he can't honestly believe what he said there. To claim that innocent Israel is being attacked by the forces of Jihad, because Islam is waging war against the west... Well he just has the whole picture upside down, and I can't trust someone like that.

Who cares? If commentary on some irrelevant topic helps you avoid the 'nazi label', why not do it?

[The Ripper]

Who cares? If commentary on some irrelevant topic helps you avoid the 'nazi label', why not do it?

I would prefer a nationalist government over a zionist government.

[Lenny]

Seats won (majority=76)
31 : People's Party of Freedom and Democracy [VVD], free-marketeer
30 : Labor Party [PvdA], center-left -- led by "Job Cohen":rolleyes:
24 : Freedom Party [PVV] {Wilders}, quasi-nationalist / neo-conservative
21 : Christian Democrats [CDA], center-right
15 : Socialist Party [SP], leftist
10 : Democrats-66 [D66], far-left
10 : Greens [GL], environmental, left-wing
5 : Christian-Union [CU], religious-nationalist [Protestant]
2 : Reformed Party [SGP], religious-nationalist [Protestant]
2 : Party for Animals [PvdD], ...



The most natural government? It must be [VVD]+[PVV]+[CDA]. The CDA would be the "junior partner" in the coalition. Formerly it was the largest party overall :cool:.

The only other option is a right-left Grand Coalition.

[The Lawspeaker]

10 : Democrats-66 [D66], far-left
They are just more social-liberal. Leaning a bit left-of-center.


5 : Christian-Union [CU], religious-nationalist [Protestant]
2 : Reformed Party [SGP], religious-nationalist [Protestant]
They are religious but not nationalist. The SGP is the most "backward" of the two where women don't have the right to vote and they are still in favor of the death penalty but in a more positive light: avowedly anti-Islam.

[Lenny]

They are religious but not nationalist. The SGP is the most "backward" of the two where women don't have the right to vote and they are still in favor of the death penalty but in a more positive light: avowedly anti-Islam.
Women don't have the "right" to vote in that party? All the votes for the party come from men? And yet they still won almost 2% of the vote! That is impressive.

You do know more about these parties than me, so I accept your judgement they they would be non-nationalist.

But, in general: I think of the "free churches" of Protestant-Europe as organic nationalists without needing to say so. They strongly reject universalism (Rome) and they strongly reject social-liberalism (Ecumenical state churches). Their members are ~100% European. The birthrate of the Dutch Bible Belt towns is well over 3.0! They have sensible social values. I really doubt if they sponsor immigrants to come over. In what criteria are they non-nationalist? They're just not loud about it.

[Groenewolf]

Women don't have the "right" to vote in that party? All the votes for the party come from men? And yet they still won almost 2% of the vote! That is impressive.

Actually Asega got it wrong. They have female members and as far as I know they are allowed to vote. The SGP however states women should not run for ellected office. It has all to do with head of the household thing, or something like that.


You do know more about these parties than me, so I accept your judgement they they would be non-nationalist.

Calling the Christenunie nationalist is a huge mistake. For the elections before this one they even made strong appeals to migrant protestant churches and then I do not mean the descendants of the Hugenotes. :coffee: Also they are bit of liberal Christians, alto this mostly a direction they have taken in the last couple of years in exchange for being allowed to sit with the big boys in the government.

The SGP is a bit different matter. The are orthodox protestants. Theocratic Calvinists if I have it correctly. But the party is not partly nationalist in principle. There might be some nationalistic minded members, but the party as a whole is a different story.


Who of the Dutch members voted for Wilders? German media say the chance for a contribution to the new government is kinda low.

I did not vote for Wilders, I voted for someone else of the PVV. The change is small, because the PVV do not have any seats in the senate. But what Asega has said about Paars+ ; Rutte had said in an interview with de Telegraaf today that is far away. With other words not his first option. Even Cohen had said today that first a possibility for a coalition with the PVV should be researched.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Seats won (majority=76)
31 : People's Party of Freedom and Democracy [VVD], free-marketeer
30 : Labor Party [PvdA], center-left -- led by "Job Cohen":rolleyes:
24 : Freedom Party [PVV] {Wilders}, quasi-nationalist / neo-conservative
21 : Christian Democrats [CDA], center-right
15 : Socialist Party [SP], leftist
10 : Democrats-66 [D66], far-left
10 : Greens [GL], environmental, left-wing
5 : Christian-Union [CU], religious-nationalist [Protestant]
2 : Reformed Party [SGP], religious-nationalist [Protestant]
2 : Party for Animals [PvdD], ...



The most natural government? It must be [VVD]+[PVV]+[CDA]. The CDA would be the "junior partner" in the coalition. Formerly it was the largest party overall :cool:.

The only other option is a right-left Grand Coalition.

en what about PvdA-PVV and AN other. Cohen is jewish.

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes.. but yesterday the situation was rather different. In de Volkskrant I found an article alluring to the fact that it would a right-wing cabinet.
And when it comes to the SGP. Err.. no women are allowed to be members but not to vote or to run for office as it has to do with the Christian principle that the man is the head of the household.

[ikki]

hmm.. that 20 place hole probly isnt easy to fill...

d66, give them direct democracy.. then maybe..

still 10, greens.. lol.. if they are anything like our greens, wherein nature takes second place to promoting multiculture, added fnds to immigrants etc and diversity everywhere.. Yeah would never work.
ohwell..

I guess the population would really ahte seeing cda in again..

[Groenewolf]

en what about PvdA-PVV and AN other. Cohen is jewish.

Would not work, even if Cohen suddenly had an insight that what is happening now is not good Jews in the Netherlands and Israel. He was pretty soft for anti-semitism comming from Muslims. Also I think that in a few years time the PvdA will fall apart along ethnic lines. The trends for it are already visible. Heck, in some cities white members and muslim members are even beating each other up during party-meetings. And there are (white) members who say you should not vote PvdA because they are being used by (Islamic) intrests.