LGBT cause low Euro birthrates

[Interest889]

Putin believe that the cause of low birth rate throughout Europe is because of gays and lesbians. Russia is known to have a unusual anti-gay attitude compared to other European countries. But what are you opinions on this?


Putin claims that the law does nothing to infringe on the lives and rights of homosexuals (“They’re people, just like everyone else”); he insisted that the Russian people supported the legislation and, thus, must have it; he also says he is concerned that homosexuality is contributing to the country’s low birth rate.



http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/gay-rights-and-putins-olympics

[Ballist]

It is a factor, but the Russians do not have the proper facilities and shit to actually help people in need.

[RandoBloom]

It is a factor, but the Russians do not have the proper facilities and shit to actually help people in need.

And thats a bad thing lol :D?
What are Russian birth-rates saying about faggotdom in Russia :rofl:
Oh Putin, the daily Ape

[Ballist]

And thats a bad thing lol :D?
What are Russian birth-rates saying about faggotdom in Russia :rofl:
Oh Putin, the daily Ape

I might not like most Russians and faggots, but they are still people like you and me. Except for faggots.

[Atvend]

Birthrate correlates with income and living conditions. If you have a good stable job, there is really no need to have more than 2-3 children, more would probably be a burden if living costs are high.
High birthrates are typically prevalent in agricultural societies, where the children are seen as an investment that will later help out with your land. (Or if you are on social welfare and you don't have to worry about shit.)

[Interest889]

I might not like most Russians and faggots, but they are still people like you and me. Except for faggots.

I understand that gays and lesbians are people like you and me. People who have sex with animals, cars, siblings and dolls are also humans...Do you like them too?

[Interest889]

Birthrate correlates with income and living conditions. If you have a good stable job, there is really no need to have more than 2-3 children, more would probably be a burden if living costs are high.
High birthrates are typically prevalent in agricultural societies, where the children are seen as an investment that will later help out with your land. (Or if you are on social welfare and you don't have to worry about shit.)

Ya but rich countries have lower birth rate than poor countries generally. Compare Europe/North America to Africa

[Ballist]

I understand that gays and lesbians are people like you and me. People who have sex with animals, cars, siblings and dolls are also humans...Do you like them too?

Some of them are nice, but I just don't think it's right.

And that's just weird...

[Ivan Kramskoï]

No.
If most heterosexual couples had at leas 2 or 3 children like during the 50's, even 10% of gay people would not be a problem to maintain a demographic stability.

[Archduke]

Russia has homosexuals more than any country in Europe. But their homos are from the disgusting, feminine ones. Gays who live in repressive society usualy are like that - super feminine, crazy etc.

While if you go to Western Europe and see the gay guys at the age of 35-40, well, they will look much better than the heterosexual men at their age.

[Interest889]

Russia has homosexuals more than any country in Europe. But their homos are from the disgusting, feminine ones. Gays who live in repressive society usualy are like that - super feminine, crazy etc.

While if you go to Western Europe and see the gay guys at the age of 35-40, well, they will look much better than the heterosexual men at their age.

Ya...I've noticed lesbians are also prettier and more fit since they don't "destroy their body" by having babies lol

[Herr Abubu]

Birthrate correlates with income and living conditions. If you have a good stable job, there is really no need to have more than 2-3 children, more would probably be a burden if living costs are high.
High birthrates are typically prevalent in agricultural societies, where the children are seen as an investment that will later help out with your land. (Or if you are on social welfare and you don't have to worry about shit.)

It correlates with it but it does not cause it, what causes low birth-rates in the West is high time-preference.

[Archduke]

Ya...I've noticed lesbians are also prettier and more fit since they don't "destroy their body" by having babies lol

Good looking lesbians are minority, its gays who take care of themselves a lot.

[Interest889]

Good looking lesbians are minority, its gays who take care of themselves a lot.

In USA, yes but when I went to london...I saw lots of pretty ones. Scandinavia also has lots of pretty ones. I guess it just depends on culture

[Beit El]

Yes, because if homosexuality is illegal obviously all those people will magically become straight and start breeding like rabbits.

I really don't see the point of such laws. What do people think they will achieve?

[Sockorer]

It's a very small factor.

The real reason the birth rate in the West is so low is because institutional patriarchy and marriage has been destroyed.

Other/related reasons..

Women are allowed to work.

Collapse of inter-generation familial structure

Slowed economic growth

decline of public institutions

culture of infertility

[Interest889]

Yes, because if homosexuality is illegal obviously all those people will magically become straight and start breeding like rabbits.

I really don't see the point of such laws. What do people think they will achieve?

So you do think lgbt can be a reason behind low birth rate?

[Anthropos]

I don't think that Putin meant that literally. He just made two statements in one, showing that he doesn't want to go the same way as Europe.

[Kabul]

Yes, I agree, faggots are an abomination to god and do nothing but bad.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

As I have been living in a North European country for the past 13 years.....

I I don't think that the LGBT community has any effect on birth-rates......

Although looking at family patternes and trends in a Denmark, I've concluded the following. Men & Women generally doesn't want to commit to the responsibility of having children or marrying, until a late age, somewhere in the 35+ years, you know the whole Idea of being young, feeling young and not taking responsiblity, because family values & morals is considered "Old-fashioned", and this has a negative Impact on birth-rates, because of the Biological clock of women in that age, and factor in the fact that the average european family's just doesn't give birth to alot of children.

So this self-destructing mechanism have been proprammed in the brains of moderen-day progressive europeans, and their liberal agenda.

And that's why I'm planning on having 3-4 kids, when I find the woman of my life.... They'll be the ones carrying the flame, when I decease.

[Anthropos]

Although looking at family patternes and trends in a Denmark, I've concluded the following. Men & Women generally doesn't want to commit to the responsibility of having children or marrying, until a late age, somewhere in the 35+ years, you know the whole Idea of being young, feeling young and not taking responsiblity, because family values & morals is considered "Old-fashioned", and this has a negative Impact on birth-rates, because of the Biological clock of women in that age, and factor in the fact that the average european family's just doesn't give birth to alot of children.

So this self-destructing mechanism have been proprammed in the brains of moderen-day progressive europeans, and their liberal agenda.

And that's why I'm planning on having 3-4 kids, when I find the woman of my life.... They'll be the ones carrying the flame, when I decease.

Partly agree with your observations as far as trends are concerned. Denmark has the lowest fertility rate in Scandinavia, but it's higher than Russia's. Scandinavia has a higher rate than most European countries, with a few exceptions.

[Loki]

No, I would say the main reason is family planning, contraceptives, abortion.

[Interest889]

Do you think europe really has unusually high amount of homosexuality or they r just more expressive

[Loki]

Do you think europe really has unusually high amount of homosexuality or they r just more expressive

Europe is just more open about it. But this openness/propaganda has probably "recruited" homosexuals who otherwise would have been straight.

[BeerBaron]

Putin is just playing to the nationalists. The lgbt has little to no impact on birth rates, japan has a very low birthrate and a very low rate of homosexuals, the US has a higher rate, and higher birthrates.

There is no correlation, its just political posturing in a weakening russian economy.

[Methmatician]

No, I would say the main reason is family planning, contraceptives, abortion.
Western Europe has fewer abortions than Eastern Europe.

http://i.imgur.com/jOXbd.gif

[Loki]

Western Europe has fewer abortions than Eastern Europe.

http://i.imgur.com/jOXbd.gif

Sure, which is [one of the reasons] why Eastern Europe's population is not growing.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

LOL, russia has one of the lowest birth rate in europe, but this has more do with the post soviet economic depression than with the culture of leisure of western europe. Never the less with the economic growth the natality will rise again.

[Methmatician]

Sure, which is [one of the reasons] why Eastern Europe's population is not growing.
That and immigration to the West.

[Mortimer]

I disagree with Putin. There are too few gays to have that significance

[Dandelion]

I think one of the biggest nightmares for a woman is when her husband turns out to be gay but married a woman out of societal pressure.

I also think people are a bit too dramatic about our low fertility. Sure, more people wait until they're past their thirties, but since I am in my late twenties I have noticed a lot of my former classmates having children now, many of which had their first in their young twenties. That's certainly not uncommon. It's not as if every Westerner has children that late. Thirty (which isn't the absolute norm) neither is too late for a woman to get pregnant and certainly not for a man to become father for the first time.

Usually it's wise to only start a family once you can provide, not before. That's just one recipe for broken families. Most forum members here also 'set a bad example' by not having children themselves, not in the least the ones with 'conservative' ideas.

Also I think Russia's stance about homosexuality is quite backward. Funny how many seem to think Western Europe has a higher rate of homosexual people. I highly doubt that.

[Dandelion]

Western Europe has fewer abortions than Eastern Europe.

http://i.imgur.com/jOXbd.gif

Interesting how Flanders and the Netherlands are similar and Wallonia is more alike to France. Zeeland (few immigrants, highest rate of conservative Christians) and the Hollandic provinces (lots of immigrants) are in the orange zone, Flevoland (lots of immigrants) in the yellow zone, which is also noteworthy.
I do know for a fact most people here are pro-abortion rights, but view it as a very 'tough decision'. I think our statistics prove that a good education can also help here, not just plainly forbidding abortion like is the case in Poland.

[Loki]

That and immigration to the West.

Immigration to the West peaked during Yeltsin years when it was horrible. I don't think that's an issue anymore. Putin's Russia today is very different from Yeltsin's Russia.

[Methmatician]

Immigration to the West peaked during Yeltsin years when it was horrible. I don't think that's an issue anymore. Putin's Russia today is very different from Yeltsin's Russia.
Russia’s official statistics service, Rosstat, states that 186,382 Russians left the country in 2013 and 122,751 in 2012. These numbers represent a significant increase over the 36,774 that left in 2011 and the 33,578 in 2010. Furthermore, some experts doubt the veracity of Rosstat’s numbers, alleging that the actual numbers could be much higher. The sharp uptick in emigration is likely due to Russia’s growing international political isolation under Vladimir Putin. Although the Russian state continues to reap the benefits of being a rentier state with vast natural resource reserves, its citizens are increasingly starting to feel that their economic futures could be best served outside of Russia. This demographic trend echoes the brain drain that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s. Almost 20 years later, Russians are leaving their home country for similar reasons. (http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/russian-emigration-spikes-in-2013-2014/)

[Mary]

I think one of the biggest nightmares for a woman is when her husband turns out to be gay but married a woman out of societal pressure.

I also think people are a bit too dramatic about our low fertility. Sure, more people wait until they're past their thirties, but since I am in my late twenties I have noticed a lot of my former classmates having children now, many of which had their first in their young twenties. That's certainly not uncommon. It's not as if every Westerner has children that late. Thirty (which isn't the absolute norm) neither is too late for a woman to get pregnant and certainly not for a man to become father for the first time.

Usually it's wise to only start a family once you can provide, not before. That's just one recipe for broken families. Most forum members here also 'set a bad example' by not having children themselves, not in the least the ones with 'conservative' ideas.

Also I think Russia's stance about homosexuality is quite backward. Funny how many seem to think Western Europe has a higher rate of homosexual people. I highly doubt that.

1) In my opinion it's education for women especially university education. If you look at the statistics (for Europe) it seems that the higher education a woman has, the fewer children she will bear, and inversely the lower education the more children. However I don't see it as something bad because it will take a lot of stupid women out of the gene pool, so the next generation will consist of women that weren't interested in higher education.

2) Read this article, (http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/kingdomofpriests/2009/06/how-women-will-be-hurt-by-gay-marriage.html)


To see how these ancient writings demonstrate that feminism and homosexuality are on a collision course, we need to first take a step back and consider the end-game of the gay and lesbian movement. The immediate aim is to win in the courts. But the ultimate aim is to win over the culture: to arrive at a day when homoeroticism is fully accepted.

Let’s fast-forward the video-tape and see what that day would look like. Johnny, a teenager, has pals who date boys and pals who date girls. In the movies, on billboards, Johnny sees depictions of men in love with men and of men in love with women. Johnny admires the picture in his principal’s office of the principal and his husband on their honeymoon. In this day, no one uses the word “homosexual” anymore, in just the same way that today no one uses the word “negro” — it’s so laden with the baggage of yesteryear’s bigotry. In fact, in this day, no one makes a big deal about sexual orientation at all. Johnny knows that when he seeks intimacy he is free to choose a blonde, a brunette, a Latina, a Phillipino, a guy, a girl; it’s all cool. Free choice and tolerance take the day.

But reading his history books about the 20th century, Johnny is shocked to discover that the percentage of men who were sexually interested in other men stood only in the single digits. He is shocked because everyone he knows engages in this regularly.

Why do I say everyone?

Continue after the jump to find out why.

Because of what you read in the the writers of imperial Rome. Some people are indeed homoerotic by nature. But others, as Aristotle noted, develop this as an acquired passion. Homoeroticism is, to a large degree, socially constructed. It turns out that where homoeroticism is granted full social sanction, as it was in Rome, it flourishes — so much so, that one writer noted that the emperor Claudius exhibited an unusual trait: he was sexually interested in women alone!

Men, we learn from ancient Rome, will enjoy sex with other men, if there is no social censure. Now, all of this should be fine for us as well — after all, we should let free choice and tolerance reign.

The real problems begin, however, when we read what these writers had to say about marriage. Consider this piece from the first century BCE poet Catullus (Carmen 61:134-141), in which the poet addresses himself to a bridegroom on the eve of his nuptials:

“You are said to find it hard, Perfumed bridegroom, to give up Smooth-skinned boys, but give them up… We realize you’ve only known Permitted pleasures: husbands, though, Have no right to the same pleasures.”

The social history behind this piece is clear: once they’ve experienced sex with other men, Catullus tells us, men are unsatisfied with what their new wives provide them. Notice that the poet is unconcerned about the husband’s dallying with other women — it’s the other men around that threaten the marital union.



And so now we come back to the idyllic day of free choice and tolerance envisioned by the gay and lesbian movement. It turns out that that day has winners and losers. The winners — big time — are homosexual men, because the historical record shows that they can expect their potential pool of partners to expand exponentially.

a) think about what a man has to do to get laid with a woman.

b) now think of what he has to do to get laid with a man , sign up for grindr, pick among 100's of men who are DTF.

c) even if a man has a relationship most women don't want to have sex everyday, they might want sex 1/week, some 1/month. A man can have sex with a new male partner everyday, hence there are homos that have had 100's of partners. How many men have had sex with 100's women?

d) so if you make homosexuality socially acceptable a majority of the men are going to be into gay sex.

[Interest889]

Western Europe has fewer abortions than Eastern Europe.

http://i.imgur.com/jOXbd.gif

Whao! Russians are such baby murdurers!

[щрбл]

I doubt Putin has ever said it.. but even if he has, it sounds pretty retarded to believe it.

[Graham]

Modern women have become more career focused. That's why we have strong parental leave & pay laws to try to help, with men also having time off work.

[Velda]

more would probably be a burden if living costs are high.
[/SIZE]
One has to economise, concerning money, but it is definitely possible without them being a burden.
If you have high standard concerning luxury, then kids may be a problem.
If you have no idea if you'd stay with your partner, or if you don't have one, who also wants many kids.
Lots of men prefer two cars and two times holidays a year.
Some people classify families with lots of kids as "white trash" even if they are not. So some are ashamed that they can't afford what they think they would have to afford to be accepted in their neighborhood and among friends.
Anonther reason is some woman's fear to gain weight after giving birth several times, to become sexually unattractive for their man because of vaginal or belly-scars. People stare at you, when you walk on the streets with more than 3 kids. Some don't want to be stared at.
Education takes longer than it used to in the past for woman, they often go to university, so they start later with building a family.
Some are not able to find the right partner.
So many reasons, to be lesbian or gay - may be one reason, but not the only one.

[Sikeliot]

No, it's because Europeans, and I mean the heterosexual ones, are having fewer children. This is if anything due to the higher emphasis now on education, and people having children older and older.

[The Philosopher]

The cause of fewer births in developed countries is not a matter of sexual orientation, is a cause of the current economic system because life in the city requires fewer children, plus the incorporation of women into the labor market and mentality European

[Kastrioti1443]

Western Europe has fewer abortions than Eastern Europe.

http://i.imgur.com/jOXbd.gif

There are a lot of mistakes in this survey btw, even if it is correct for the country, it is not for the ethnicity.

[Dormammu]

No, keep doing it... LGTB is very good for Europeans... So they release the inner perversions instead of bottling them up.

[Odin]

I don't think so.