I am an Yörük from southern Turkey

[Togarma]

I am a Yörük from southern Turkey. Yörük means walker (name of my tribe because of half nomadic life style). I know my anchestors came from hungarian planes about 900ad as merchenaries for byzantine army. In 1071 they change side and help Seljuks againts byzantien army because of their relativitiy. My tribe have mostly H and I2 ydna according to research. And pale skin, brown, blonde, red haired, pointy nose, light eye colour but small eyes at the same time. My grandmother were looks exactly like princess of Lolan recounstractions. Our daily language has very simililar or same words with sumerian language. I am full of theories but I want to hear others also. Please share your toughts, who we are exactly?

[Loki]

I am an Yörük from southern Turkey. Yörük means walker (name of my tribe because of half nomadic life style). I know my anchestors came from hungarian planes about 900ad as merchenaries for byzantine army. In 1071 they change side and help Seljuks againts byzantien army because of their relativitiy. My tribe have mostly H and I2 ydna according to research. And pale skin, brown, blonde, red haired, pointy nose, light eye colour but small eyes at the same time. My grandmother were looks exactly like princess of Lolan recounstractions. Our daily language has very simililar or same words with sumerian language. I am full of theories but I want to hear others also. Please share your toughts, who we are exactly?

Welcome to the forum! :)

[Petros Houhoulis]

I am an Yörük from southern Turkey. Yörük means walker (name of my tribe because of half nomadic life style). I know my anchestors came from hungarian planes about 900ad as merchenaries for byzantine army. In 1071 they change side and help Seljuks againts byzantien army because of their relativitiy. My tribe have mostly H and I2 ydna according to research. And pale skin, brown, blonde, red haired, pointy nose, light eye colour but small eyes at the same time. My grandmother were looks exactly like princess of Lolan recounstractions. Our daily language has very simililar or same words with sumerian language. I am full of theories but I want to hear others also. Please share your toughts, who we are exactly?
The original Sumerians called themselves "blackheads". I assume you must be a nigga with pale skin...

"Sun language theory" still alive in Turkey!!!

[Ianus]

Welcome

[Highlands]

:welcome: !

[Pennywise]

I hope you're not an another troll. Loki please check him.

[Petros Houhoulis]

I hope you're not an another troll. Loki please check him.
He not a troll he is a Turk and you shall pay the consequences as usual...

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I am an Yörük from southern Turkey. Yörük means walker (name of my tribe because of half nomadic life style). I know my anchestors came from hungarian planes about 900ad as merchenaries for byzantine army. In 1071 they change side and help Seljuks againts byzantien army because of their relativitiy. My tribe have mostly H and I2 ydna according to research. And pale skin, brown, blonde, red haired, pointy nose, light eye colour but small eyes at the same time. My grandmother were looks exactly like princess of Lolan recounstractions. Our daily language has very simililar or same words with sumerian language. I am full of theories but I want to hear others also. Please share your toughts, who we are exactly?

Ohhh so you're like a Turkish bedouin......... May you find brotherhood with Nabatea1

[Loki]

I hope you're not an another troll. Loki please check him.

His location is definitely from Turkey.

[Pennywise]

His location is definitely from Turkey.

thanks and be sure about sockpuppetry. several troll/sock account banned for this, you know. he can use proxy.

[Loki]

thanks and be sure about sockpuppetry. several troll/sock account banned for this, you know. he can use proxy.

I know. But I checked this one, it isn't a proxy.

[gültekin]

kimsin lan sen yarrak kafası

[gültekin]

I know. But I checked this one, it isn't a proxy.
or a Kürt probably

[Alexandros]

Hosgeldiniz :cool:

[Togarma]

First of all, I am not a troll. I am an enthusiast about history. And I see lots of people here share the same enthusiasm. But there is always racists, ignorants, haters too. Look at the example, one Greek guy try to insult me, on the other hand, one Turkish guy blasphemy on me. They are exactly same for me, and I never give a shit this kind of people.

And I want to back my argument. Clearly there are full of empty spots in known history. Turkic from syberia asimilated almost entire central asia theory make no sense. How could possibly a hunter gatherer tribe do that. We all know, asimilation on superior culture is impossible. You can kill people, you can marry with people, but you can't change their language and culture that easly. And how can you explain hundreds over hundreds word abouth farming in a hunter gatherer tribe's language. My ancestors moved from crimea to hungary. But where were they before. How we talk a syberian language relative to a mezopotamian languge. Thats all what I want to find answer. Sun Langue theory using a humuliating enstrument here. But cleary more sense then other theories in my opinion. I am realy tired to talk with haters to Turks and ignorant Turks also. I just want to speak abouth culture and history. I want to learn something real, but not politic. If this place is another superior-inferior race bullshit arena, then I just left. Because I don't believe that shit.

Btw, original sumerians did not call themself ''black head''. They call themself Kenger. Sumer is a name of place which means ''between two river'', not race.

[Loki]

How we talk a syberian language relative to a mezopotamian languge.

Is there any proof for this? Sounds like one of those Hungaryan myths, that they are related to the Sumerians.

[Pennywise]

Is there any proof for this? Sounds like one of those Hungaryan myths, that they are related to the Sumerians.

He is talking about alternative history. Unfortunaletly many people in both Hungary and Turkey believe such pseudo sciences. He is even mentioning Sun language theory, which is equal to Aryan race theory.

[Togarma]

Is there any proof for this? Sounds like one of those Hungaryan myths, that they are related to the Sumerians.

There are several studies about that. But any scientific argument not better than obvious truth. Here are some examples. There are more than 350 words are same or identical. Also same aglunative structure.

http://members.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturka.html

@ölüezgi
Alternative history could be called non eurocentric history. Interesting, many Turkish more eurocentric than europeans in this case. Probably you think this research done by politik motivation in 1930's. There were a politic motivation but not for find a proof of Turkic superiority, but equality of all human races. And they do really serrious research with both European, Russian and Turkish scientifist. How sad, many people didn't read about that and just ignored because of their results clearly againts eurocentric history. People belived the earth is flat for hundreds of years. It doesn't make something true by believed for majority.

[Pennywise]

There are several studies about that. But any scientific argument not better than obvious truth. Here are some examples. There are more than 350 words are same or identical. Also same aglunative structure.

http://members.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturka.html

@ölüezgi
Alternative history could be called non eurocentric history. Interesting, many Turkish more eurocentric than europeans in this case. Probably you think this research done by politik motivation in 1930's. There were a politic motivation but not for find a proof of Turkic superiority, but equality of all human races. And they do really serrious research with both European, Russian and Turkish scientifist. How sad, many people didn't read about that and just ignored because of their results clearly againts eurocentric history. People belived the earth is flat for hundreds of years. It doesn't make something true by believed for majority.

Eurocentrism has nothing to do with this case. (of course there are baised european scholars but it doesn't change the fact) you're just denying professional history. Your arguments are too stale, nothing new about them. Non of the modern serious scholars who working on this field claims such things. You can do this all day but nothing gonna change.

[Togarma]

Eurocentrism has nothing to do with this case. (of course there are baised european scholars but it doesn't change the fact) you're just denying professional history. Your arguments are too stale, nothing new about them. Non of the modern serious scholars who working on this field claims such things. You can do this all day but nothing gonna change.

So please explain to me with your professional history knowledge. Why these words are same between two language? How is the possibility two different coulture use the same word for a thing? Find it and multiply with 350. I am talking directly sicience perspective. You can denie it all day, still you will be wrong. And what are you talking about ''Non of the modern serious scholars who working on this field claims such things''. There are a lot of work still going on. You can just basicly google it. But I understand you. There is no foreing, not Turkish (better English or American) scientist must say, so you can believe. Btw even all world denie a truth, it doesn't matter. It still a truth. I can say this, all day and all my life. Science must have opposite perspectives. So you can find the truth. May be both side is wrong. But if you just ignore one of them, you will fall in deep dark ignorance well.

[Black Wolf]

I am a Yörük from southern Turkey. Yörük means walker (name of my tribe because of half nomadic life style). I know my anchestors came from hungarian planes about 900ad as merchenaries for byzantine army. In 1071 they change side and help Seljuks againts byzantien army because of their relativitiy. My tribe have mostly H and I2 ydna according to research. And pale skin, brown, blonde, red haired, pointy nose, light eye colour but small eyes at the same time. My grandmother were looks exactly like princess of Lolan recounstractions. Our daily language has very simililar or same words with sumerian language. I am full of theories but I want to hear others also. Please share your toughts, who we are exactly?

Do you mean J2 Y-DNA? J2 is much more common in Turkey than I2 is. Of course you could still certainly be I2 as well

[Sideritis]

I am a Yörük from southern Turkey. Yörük means walker (name of my tribe because of half nomadic life style). I know my anchestors came from hungarian planes about 900ad as merchenaries for byzantine army. In 1071 they change side and help Seljuks againts byzantien army because of their relativitiy. My tribe have mostly H and I2 ydna according to research. And pale skin, brown, blonde, red haired, pointy nose, light eye colour but small eyes at the same time. My grandmother were looks exactly like princess of Lolan recounstractions. Our daily language has very simililar or same words with sumerian language. I am full of theories but I want to hear others also. Please share your toughts, who we are exactly?

Interesting. Welcome! :welcome:

[Togarma]

Do you mean J2 Y-DNA? J2 is much more common in Turkey than I2 is. Of course you could still certainly be I2 as well

Yes I2. But high percentage is still H, R1b, R1a. J2 is common in Turkey but not in ethnic Turks. A lot of middle eastern people live in our country. I don't mean they are not Turks offcourse. Because we believe, Turk means who feell them and named them as Turk. It's a cultural name more than an ethnic group.

@Sideritis
Thank you for your heartly welcome.

[Josey]

welcome :}

[Wild North]

Welcome!

[Nurzat]

well, Y-DNA and mtDNA hg help historians, but you are what your genes are, not these markers. your autosomal DNA is most certainly Turkish, i.e. West Asian. geography rules. there are no exceptions to that around the world, except for really recent admixture in specific individuals.

and welcome, Turkish bro (I ain't Türk, btw, only into Ottoman history :) )

[Petros Houhoulis]

First of all, I am not a troll. I am an enthusiast about history. And I see lots of people here share the same enthusiasm. But there is always racists, ignorants, haters too. Look at the example, one Greek guy try to insult me, on the other hand, one Turkish guy blasphemy on me. They are exactly same for me, and I never give a shit this kind of people.

And I want to back my argument. Clearly there are full of empty spots in known history. Turkic from syberia asimilated almost entire central asia theory make no sense. How could possibly a hunter gatherer tribe do that.

The same way Mongols conquered all of Central Asia. In any case, who gives a shit about Central Asia? Most people want to get out of there...


We all know, asimilation on superior culture is impossible. You can kill people, you can marry with people, but you can't change their language and culture that easly.

Killing people is usually enough, and Genghis Khan killed 50 millions. Tamerlane killed another 17 millions. People are being pushed and genocided out of existence even in our days. Does the word "Yazidi" ring any bells to you?


And how can you explain hundreds over hundreds word abouth farming in a hunter gatherer tribe's language.

How do you explain thousands upon thousands of Greek words in most of the worlds' languages? Democracy, Economy Mathematics, just to name a few...


My ancestors moved from crimea to hungary. But where were they before. How we talk a syberian language relative to a mezopotamian languge.

You can masturbate all you like, but the closest living relatives of the Sumerians are the Dravidians of south India. The name ur (settlement) is still in use there...


Thats all what I want to find answer. Sun Langue theory using a humuliating enstrument here. But cleary more sense then other theories in my opinion.

What other theories? Do we need to prove that the Arabs had a lower culture than the Egyptians and the Levantines whom they conquered and assimilated? Do you think a bunch of Sandniggers could possibly compare their cultural heritage with the shadow of the pyramids - because the Pyramids in their own respect are way too heavy to compare. This was not even the first time: Persia conquered Egypt, without much of a cultural impact, but the Egyptians shifted to Demotic by using the Greek letters which originated in Phoenicia next door to them much earlier... No kiddo, it is VERY COMMON for better warriors to impose their language/culture upon others, either they are more culturally advanced or not.


I am realy tired to talk with haters to Turks and ignorant Turks also. I just want to speak abouth culture and history. I want to learn something real, but not politic. If this place is another superior-inferior race bullshit arena, then I just left. Because I don't believe that shit.

We can keep the race out.


Btw, original sumerians did not call themself ''black head''. They call themself Kenger. Sumer is a name of place which means ''between two river'', not race.

Whatever, but they were not Turks, no matter ho much you want to convince yourself about that. They were certainly closer to the Turkic/Altaic/Uralic/Austronesian/Amerindian people than the IndoEuropeans, but that doesn't settle the question.

[Petros Houhoulis]

There are several studies about that. But any scientific argument not better than obvious truth. Here are some examples. There are more than 350 words are same or identical. Also same aglunative structure.

http://members.storm.ca/~cm-tntr/sumerturka.html

@ölüezgi
Alternative history could be called non eurocentric history. Interesting, many Turkish more eurocentric than europeans in this case. Probably you think this research done by politik motivation in 1930's. There were a politic motivation but not for find a proof of Turkic superiority, but equality of all human races. And they do really serrious research with both European, Russian and Turkish scientifist. How sad, many people didn't read about that and just ignored because of their results clearly againts eurocentric history. People belived the earth is flat for hundreds of years. It doesn't make something true by believed for majority.

Do you call that a reliable source?

Still, you cannot prove that Turkish didn't simply copy those words from Sumerian in the long run...

[Petros Houhoulis]

So please explain to me with your professional history knowledge. Why these words are same between two language? How is the possibility two different coulture use the same word for a thing? Find it and multiply with 350. I am talking directly sicience perspective. You can denie it all day, still you will be wrong. And what are you talking about ''Non of the modern serious scholars who working on this field claims such things''. There are a lot of work still going on. You can just basicly google it. But I understand you. There is no foreing, not Turkish (better English or American) scientist must say, so you can believe. Btw even all world denie a truth, it doesn't matter. It still a truth. I can say this, all day and all my life. Science must have opposite perspectives. So you can find the truth. May be both side is wrong. But if you just ignore one of them, you will fall in deep dark ignorance well.

Can you find a serious publication proving that 350 Turkish words are similar or identical to Sumerian words with the same meaning for starters? Because I can also make a list of 350 Greek words that are identical to Sumerian words that nobody knows what their original meaning is...

[Togarma]

Can you find a serious publication proving that 350 Turkish words are similar or identical to Sumerian words with the same meaning for starters? Because I can also make a list of 350 Greek words that are identical to Sumerian words that nobody knows what their original meaning is...

There are also English words, if you can read. I can understand sumerian words are same with my language. You can't understand. And you think sumerians closer to you than me. What a pathetic argument. Clearly you are just another Turk obsessive troll. You speak all day. I don't waste my time to talk people like you. I just pity on you. Only weak people try to humiliate others for see themself on a giant mirror. I respect Greek history and culture and warm, friendly Greek people. But clearly you are not part of them.

[Petros Houhoulis]

There are also English words, if you can read. I can understand sumerian words are same with my language.

You cannot understand if those Sumerian words had the same meaning as in your language... Those Sumerian words have not been translated properly, except in the sick minds of some Turks...


You can't understand. And you think sumerians closer to you than me.

I said that all those Agglutinative languages are closer to Sumerian than any IndoEuropean is to Sumerian, but you are too fucking stupid to understand what I say, and you twist my words beyond recognition.


What a pathetic argument. Clearly you are just another Turk obsessive troll. You speak all day. I don't waste my time to talk people like you. I just pity on you. Only weak people try to humiliate others for see themself on a giant mirror. I respect Greek history and culture and warm, friendly Greek people. But clearly you are not part of them.

Learn English and we might converse some day...

[Togarma]

You cannot understand if those Sumerian words had the same meaning as in your language... Those Sumerian words have not been translated properly, except in the sick minds of some Turks...I said that all those Agglutinative languages are closer to Sumerian than any IndoEuropean is to Sumerian, but you are too fucking stupid to understand what I say, and you twist my words beyond recognition.

Learn English and we might converse some day...

No we won't. I only speak with people I respect and has some intellectual background. Even I show you countless eveidence about sumerian and turkish relativity, you will continue to believe your sick ideas because of your inferiority complex. You are just a pathetic foul. Find some one like you and bark to him.

[Linet]

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8326/8145780712_9e27352e1d_o.gif


There are also English words, if you can read. I can understand sumerian words are same with my language. You can't understand. And you think sumerians closer to you than me. What a pathetic argument. Clearly you are just another Turk obsessive troll. You speak all day. I don't waste my time to talk people like you. I just pity on you. Only weak people try to humiliate others for see themself on a giant mirror. I respect Greek history and culture and warm, friendly Greek people. But clearly you are not part of them.


No, he is very friendly when he is in good mood :eyes....but that is just a rare occation :p

[zarzian]

but the closest living relatives of the Sumerians are the Dravidians of south India.



This has definitely not been proven, in fact the whole Sumerian/Elamite connection with Dravidian has been marginalized http://starling.rinet.ru/Texts/elam.pdf

The Sumerians were most likely middle eastern aborigines, If i were to guess they probably came from the Caucasus or the Zagros.

And Kurdish and some other Iranic languages are agglutinative IE languages, though if that was influence from other middle eastern cultures or not remains to be seen.

[Iron Sheik]

This has definitely not been proven, in fact the whole Sumerian/Elamite connection with Dravidian has been marginalized http://starling.rinet.ru/Texts/elam.pdf

The Sumerians were most likely middle eastern aborigines, If i were to guess they probably came from the Caucasus or the Zagros.

And Kurdish and some other Iranic languages are agglutinative IE languages, though if that was influence from other middle eastern cultures or not remains to be seen.

I agree... there aren't many south-Asian predominant haplogroup, present, even in elamite areas.

[Petros Houhoulis]

No we won't. I only speak with people I respect and has some intellectual background. Even I show you countless eveidence about sumerian and turkish relativity, you will continue to believe your sick ideas because of your inferiority complex. You are just a pathetic foul. Find some one like you and bark to him.

This is not "evidence". Just because you found a post on the internet, it doesn't mean it's true...

[Petros Houhoulis]

This has definitely not been proven, in fact the whole Sumerian/Elamite connection with Dravidian has been marginalized http://starling.rinet.ru/Texts/elam.pdf

From the early pages of the paper, the marginalized connection is that between Elamite and Dravidian, not Sumerian and Dravidian....


The Sumerians were most likely middle eastern aborigines, If i were to guess they probably came from the Caucasus or the Zagros.

No, they didn't. People fill the valleys before they take up the mountains, trust me!


And Kurdish and some other Iranic languages are agglutinative IE languages, though if that was influence from other middle eastern cultures or not remains to be seen.

Still, the new theories bring Elamite closer to the Afro-Asiatic language family, and not any Indo-European language. Nevertheless, there is something of Sumerian and Elamite left all around the area - including Iran and Kurdistan...

The stronger connection is still Dravidian, because...


Recently, however, an alternate theory of the Elamite relationship has been put forward byVaclav Blaek (Blaek 1992). Having expressed a particular concern about the lack of crediblelexical comparisons between Elamite and Dravidian (while at the same time never discarding themorphologic evidence), Blaek suggests a close relationship between Elamite and another hugelanguage family, namely, the Afroasiatic one. Contrary to McAlpin, Blaek does not focus asmuch on the comparison of the Elamite and the Afroasiatic grammmar systems as he does onlexical evidence; his article quotes more than a hundred lexical correlations between Afroasiaticand Elamite, which is quite a significant number if we consider the relative scarcity of the known 2Elamite lexicon.Blaek, however, does not view his theory as 'opposed' to McAlpin's; as he writes himself, hedoesn't 'exclude a remote relationship with Dravidian', and essentially sees no major obstacles ingrouping all the three families together.

[Faklon]

Hello.

Which subclade of I2?

[Petros Houhoulis]

I agree... there aren't many south-Asian predominant haplogroup, present, even in elamite areas.

What... Elamite areas???

There is no Elam today, and one cannot rule out the possibility that all Elamited were physically extinct either... Not to mention that the possibility that Dravidian was imported to Southy India from Elam/Sumeria is equally possible, thus the presence of Middle Eastern genes in south India would be equally sufficient to prove a relationship...

[Iron Sheik]

What... Elamite areas???

There is no Elam today, and one cannot rule out the possibility that all Elamited were physically extinct either... Not to mention that the possibility that Dravidian was imported to Southy India from Elam/Sumeria is equally possible, thus the presence of Middle Eastern genes in south India would be equally sufficient to prove a relationship...

I highly doubt it. Up until the middle-late medieval ages. There was a language called khuzi in iran(Khuzestan), which was neither semitic nor Indo-Iranian in origin(it's theorized to be a derivative of elamite, as no, non-semitic/non-indo European languages survived in west-asia). the language survived up until the 14th-15th century. There are isolated lur tribes today that are relatively unmixed(like the bakhtiaris and other lorestan tribes aswell as larestani much farther south) that I suspect serve as relatively good canidates for modern populations with a good amount of elamite ancestry. Elamites themselves archaeologically and were very similar to their northern neighbours(kassaites in loorestan-ilam, and post-Neolithic cultures in gilan, kordestan, Azerbaijan, ) They weren't exceptional for the region other than the fact that they left many ruins and were better recorded than others. Post Neolithic cultures were pretty homogenous in their culture and identity, religion. So many people in western iran(especially in the south-west) likely descend from elamites or more northern populations that were closely related to elamites. Personally I believe the elamite-Dravidian theory is faulty.. because if you look at the Elamite language itself... what survives of it. Its use structure and style, vocabulary used are similar to other pre-Indo-Iranian/pre-semitic languages. Ancient middle-east must have been like Caucasus were many language isolates in the middle-east, until the bronze age. Only difference is that they didn't survive.

Also turks assuming Sumerian or elamites were related Turkic Altaic nomads, are completely fucking retarded. All archaeological/linguistic evidence point to those cultures belonging to a continuum of post-Neolithic agricultural west-Asian civilizations. There is no tengri wolf worship or horses involved. It's like claiming Korean is related to pashtuun.

[Petros Houhoulis]

I highly doubt it. Up until the middle-late medieval ages. There was a language called khuzi in iran(Khuzestan), which was neither semitic nor Indo-Iranian in origin(it's theorized to be a derivative of elamite as no, non-semitic/non-indo European languages survived in west-asia, if we exclude the caucasus).

The Caucasus is way too close and too diverse, don't you think?


It survived up until the 14th-15th century. There are lur tribes today that are relatively unmixed(like the bakhtiari and other lorestan tribes aswell as larestani) that serve as relatively good canidates for modern populations with a good amount of elamite ancestry.

We are talking about an area in the path of Hulagu Khan and Tamerlane... Remember???


Elamites themselves archaeologically and were very similar to their northern neighbours(kassaites in loorestan-ilam, and post-Neolithic cultures in gilan, kordestan, Azerbaijan, ) They weren't exceptional for the region other than the fact that they left many ruins and were better recorded than others. Post Neolithic cultures were pretty homogenous in their culture and identity, religion. So many people in western iran descend largely from elamites or more northern elamite related populations.

Your trouble is that you still cannot rule out the other option: Elamite to have been imported to South India along with agriculture, just as IndoEuropean was introduced in North India...

[Iron Sheik]

The Caucasus is way too close and too diverse, don't you think?
Nope.... it's an relatively isolated model of the linguistic diversity and fauna of what middle-east looked like, before the bronze age invasions of Afro-asiatic semtic/ Indo-european languages. Whole linguistic branches that existed outside of the modern spectrum of dominant languages.



We are talking about an area in the path of Hulagu Khan and Tamerlane... Remember???...
There is still an ethnological/tribal continuum. The lurs/Kurdish/Persian tribes that were in the path of hulagu khan and tamerlane, still spoke luri/Kurdish/Persian after those two invasions left, and their descendents still exist today. Several dynasties that were both recorded before hulagu khan and tamerlane survived after those eras into the safavid era, and even until the modern age. So I think the demographic effect of tamerlane and hulagu khan are hyperboled. I've found tribal names that dated back to pre-Mongolian/tamerlane invasions, that continued existing in the safavid era and still exist today.





Your trouble is that you still cannot rule out the other option: Elamite to have been imported to South India along with agriculture, just as IndoEuropean was introduced in North India...
Sure... save for the fact that like all left overs... are identical to stuff that is found north and west of the place. Have you actually been to the Iranian national museum and looked at the symbolism, items and scripts left over from the elamites?( I have) They look nothing like the items found in Dravidian cultures dated the same age or older. They look identical to other material cultures found in iran at the same time-era . Even their architecture is so west-Asian it hurts. They have ziggurats, not temples. Why do they need to import agriculture, when there is a Neolithic site 11.5k before Christ, a hundred kilometer north? And there is like 8.5k B.C old Neolithic site, dash in the middle of the khuzestan or the Susiana plains, in the center of what was the elamite homeland.

The Dravidian-elamite connection has very very scant evidence. Elamites were an indigenous post-Neolithic culture, it's that simple. It's just that there is no way to classify the remains of their language, hence these weird connection by some paleo-linguistics towards elamites and whatever. It's just that simple that they had a indigenous languge or belonged to a language branch that didn't survive till today. Like the sumerians.

[Petros Houhoulis]

The Caucasus is way too close and too diverse, don't you think?


There is still an ethnological continuum. The lurs/Kurdish/Persian tribes that were in the path of hulagu khan and tamerlane, still spoke luri/Kurdish/Persian. Several dynasties survived until modern age. So I think the demographic effect of tamerlane and hulagu khan are hyped.




Sure... save for the fact that like all left overs... are identical to stuff that is found north and west of the place. Have you actually been to the Iranian national museum and looked at the symbolism, items and scripts left over from the elamites?( I have) They look nothing like the items found in Dravidian cultures dated the same age or older. They look identical to other stuff found in iran at the same time era. Even their architecture is so west-Asian it hurts. They have ziggurats, not temples. Why do need need to import agriculture, when there is a Neolithic site 11.5k before Christ, a hundred kilometer north? And there is like 8.5k B.C old Neolithic site, dash in the middle, of the khuzestan or the Susiana plane in the center of what was the elamite homeland.

The Dravidian-elamite connection has very very scant evidence. Elamites were an indigenous post-Neolithic culture, it's that simple. It's just that there is no way to classify their surviving languages, hence these weird connection by paleo-linguistics towards elamites and whatever.

I have never visited that Iranian museum, but I'd love to. I am 100% certain that the "star of Ancient Macedonia" has Persian origins, and it is visible in a stele of Anahita. Anyway, the Elamites were certainly indigenous and the Dravidian language was probably influenced by the Sumerian - I wouldn't say Elamite really. Still, both the Elamite and Sumerian languages have left little trace in the modern world. Dravidian is the closest relative of Sumerian, but the relationship remains abysmal...

[Iron Sheik]

I have never visited that Iranian museum, but I'd love to. I am 100% certain that the "star of Ancient Macedonia" has Persian origins, and it is visible in a stele of Anahita. Anyway, the Elamites were certainly indigenous and the Dravidian language was probably influenced by the Sumerian - I wouldn't say Elamite really. Still, both the Elamite and Sumerian languages have left little trace in the modern world. Dravidian is the closest relative of Sumerian, but the relationship remains abysmal...

What's the hypothesis again? What evidence is there to link sumerians with dravidians? I'm going to claim dorians are relatives to kassaites, and not modern greeks. Because neither dorians or kassaites spoke Indo-european/semitic language. Why persist with a really terrible theory, it's nonsensical. Sumerian and elamite are both language isolates. There are plenty of cases for that.

Here you have your answer:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/

Apparently proto-Dravidian languages were likely brought from southern near-east or iran, to dravidians. That would explain things a lot better.

[Petros Houhoulis]

What's the hypothesis again? What evidence is there to link sumerians with dravidians? I'm going to claim dorians are relatives to kassaites, and not modern greeks. Because neither dorians or kassaites spoke Indo-european/semitic language. Why persist with a really terrible theory, it's nonsensical. Sumerian and elamite are both language isolates. There are plenty of cases for that.

Here you have your answer:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/

Apparently proto-Dravidian languages were likely brought from southern near-east or iran, to dravidians. That would explain things a lot better.

Well, that is exactly what I suggested: Some folks from Iran moved to India and imposed their language there, but still the relationship between Dravidian and Sumerian remains very distnt, but not as much as between Sumerian and all other candidates.

[zarzian]

No, they didn't. People fill the valleys before they take up the mountains, trust me!



Depends on the climate conditions, people could have gone back and forth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.9_kiloyear_event
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.2_kiloyear_event

[Petros Houhoulis]

Depends on the climate conditions, people could have gone back and forth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.9_kiloyear_event
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.2_kiloyear_event

In case the plains are flooded, they surely do. But even if all of the Earths' ice melted, the total amount of land going under is miniscule, unless if you believe in the electric universe theory...

[Togarma]

Sumerian over god is Dingir. Turkic over god is Tengri. Both have mountain worship. Sumer had not any mountain, then they built artifical ones. Even today we call ''horanta'' to relatives with marriage. Horanta is actualy sumerian king's son in love. You can't find these in any historians book. Because many of them does not even know that words in Turkic. These words are still in use in central asia too. So we just didn't learn them after came to anatolia. Actualy coming into anatolia is nonsense. The true word is returning to anatolia.