Fluoride - not a conspiracy

[War Chef]

Water Fluoridation Linked to Higher ADHD Rates (http://www.newsweek.com/water-fluoridation-linked-higher-adhd-rates-312748)

FLUORIDE & IQ: THE 43 STUDIES
(http://fluoridealert.org/studies/brain01/)

http://i.imgur.com/2Q02caD.png

^ People not from red areas, don't think you are OK. Tea has lots of fluoride

http://i.imgur.com/h0rmDky.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KRvyowC.png

http://i.imgur.com/7XDFOgb.png

[igo112]

...

[Furnace]

Fortunately they don't add fluoride to the water supply here.

[Stanley]

Water fluoridation has always been one practice I've been somewhat skeptical of. Unfortunately, though, it's still prone to being imbued with a whole lot of silliness and misinformation from conspiracy theorists who believe in conspiracy more than they do any actual belief; and I fear that it may not be getting its due attention because it's easy to bin it with baseless conspiratard claims like the supposed autism-vaccination connection. It would be a shame to delay finding the next asbestos, DDT, or MTBE because conspiratards' impressive track record of never being right makes it so easy to dismiss any idea they support in any fashion.

I really do wonder if the potential risks of water fluoridation are being properly investigated. As with any chemical, including water, fluoride is toxic above a certain level ("the dose makes the poison"). There's not really solid research out there that clears up what the dose at which fluoride's negative effects (neurotoxicity, endocrine disruption) become apparent truly is. The kids in, e.g., China who have been shown to have slight decreased IQs from fluoride exposure are getting absolutely overloaded with it, at levels that far exceed those found when its addition is controlled. Whether there are harmful effects at lower levels isn't perfectly clear. Still, there's reason for caution. Here's a study published recently, in England, that links increased rates of hypothyroidism (an endocrine disorder) with areas that practice fluoridation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25714098

FINDINGS: We found that higher levels of fluoride in drinking water provide a useful contribution for predicting prevalence of hypothyroidism. We found that practices located in the West Midlands (a wholly fluoridated area) are nearly twice as likely to report high hypothyroidism prevalence in comparison to Greater Manchester (non-fluoridated area).

All of that said, this new study showing a correlation between water fluoridation and higher rates of ADHD is not proof of any negative effects. It's mere correlation, not causation. Too many variables aren't being controlled for. Most importantly, it's not directly testing fluoride exposure against ADHD diagnosis. And on top of that, ADHD is very flimsy as diagnoses go.
The study isn't close to pointing to anything definitive. However, it was never going to, just based on the nature of the experimental design (and the authors are well aware of these limitations). But it's still an important one—one that calls for further investigation, at the very least.

[War Chef]

The kids in, e.g. China who have been shown to have slight decreased IQs from fluoride exposure are getting absolutely overloaded with it

10 IQ point reduction cannot be considered "slight", the majority of the overseas studies showed this much reduction in IQ and in some studies even well into the double digits.

The Fluoride content in my cities water is 1.2 ppm...... compare that to the amounts used in the studies:


Studies have found IQ reductions at 1.4 ppm (Zhang 2012); 1.8 ppm (Xu 1994); 1.9 ppm (Xiang 2003a,b); 0.3-3.0 ppm (Ding 2011); 2.0 ppm (Yao 1996, 1997); 2.1-3.2 ppm (An 1992); 2.3 ppm (Trivedi 2012); 2.38 ppm (Poureslami 2011); 2.45 ppm (Eswar 2011); 2.5 ppm (Seraj 2006); 2.85 ppm (Hong 2001); 2.97 ppm (Wang 2001, Yang 1994); 3.1 ppm (Seraj 2012); 3.15 ppm (Lu 2000); 3.94 ppm (Karimzade 2014); and 4.12 ppm (Zhao 1996)

It also varies on the individual, people involved in athletic activity drink more water than sedentary people, and also those who drink tea as a leisurely activity have potential to exceed the Chinese studies when it comes to Fluoride intake.


Water fluoridation has always been one practice I've been somewhat skeptical of. Unfortunately, though, it's still prone to being imbued with a whole lot of silliness and misinformation from conspiracy theorists who believe in conspiracy more than they do any actual belief; and I fear that it may not be getting its due attention because it's easy to bin it with baseless conspiratard claims like the supposed autism-vaccination connection. It would be a shame to delay finding the next asbestos, DDT, or MTBE because conspiratards' impressive track record of never being right makes it so easy to dismiss any idea they support in any fashion.

When there are people like Alex Jones and David Icke - founder of Reptilian theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilians) :picard1: (btw relation to my username is purely coincidental) who endorse anti-fluoridation, it is hard to associate yourself in any way with such people. They make claims that Fluoride was used by the Nazi's to keep camp subjects "docile and submissive" - which has been proven not to be factual at all. I don't think countries who fluoridate their water are even aware of the health risks, much like smoking cigarettes was once considered harmless as well as lead paint, so that's where rational anti-fluoride people differ from the delusional Alex Jones types.



I really do wonder if the potential risks of water fluoridation are being properly investigated. As with any chemical, including water, fluoride is toxic above a certain level ("the dose makes the poison"). There's not really solid research out there that clears up what the dose at which fluoride's negative effects (neurotoxicity, endocrine disruption) become apparent truly is.

It is well known that Fluoride being a Halogen competes with another Halogen Iodine, for absorption, so this latest study that shows impaired thyroid function is not surprising at all, actually it's completely unnecessary, captain obvious stuff which is why I didn't even mention it.

http://i.imgur.com/drYjZn6.jpg

Any Halogen can disrupt Iodine absorption, even Bromine which although outlawed in Europe is still used in many products in U.S. like Mountain Dew which can cause Bromine toxicity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromism

Under-active thyroid from *lack of dietary Iodine and then *Fluoride acting as a substitute for this lack of dietary Iodine is only one of the ways Fluoride causes health problems. The other is more serious and involves a direct impact on Nueron functioning in the brain:


Depending on what it is associated with (e.g., aluminium), F can pass through
the brain-blood barrier and accumulate in the brain and cause damage in neuronal
development and function by decreasing neural synapses, neurotransmitter
synthesis, and the number of receptors.27-29 It also impairs the central neural
system, leading to fatigue, malaise, insomnia, headache, lethargy, daze, mental
impairment, and memory dysfunction

EFFECTS OF FLUORIDE ON ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION IN MICE
(http://www.fluorideresearch.org/453Pt2/files/FJ2012_v45_n3Pt2_p302-306_pq.pdf)

[Stanley]

10 IQ point reduction cannot be considered "slight", the majority of the overseas studies showed this much reduction in IQ and in some studies even well into the double digits.

I was looking at something that mentioned less than a full point. I'll have to look closer at the studies.

In any case, I would imagine the fluoride exposure in places like these Chinese cities is heavily correlated with a bunch of other factors that could also potentially fuck up people's nervous systems, making it hard to assess causality, but 10 IQ points at those concentrations? That's insane if legitimate.

[antipodean]

The real issue is about the "increased" tooth decay not the fluoride. The problem is that eveyrone is so busy trying to be "scientific" that they forget about the real issue. The pro-fluoridationists refuse to address the root issues: eg lots of our food is full of sugar esp breakfast cereals & biscuits etc.
I find it hard to believe it is not a conspiracy.
They don't just add fluoride but also alluminium.
see my blog posts on this at :
http://historum.com/blogs/rob+banks/30958-water-fluoridation-facts.html
and at
2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com
The bible said 1/3rd of the world's water would be turned to wormwood/blood.
Do unto others as you would have done to you is the whole of the law.


p.s. thats interesting about ocean fish, gealtin, chicken skin, i didn't know that. Anyone that wants fluoride can easily get it themselves without forcing it on the rest of us.

[War Chef]

Collection of studies about fluoride:

http://www.slweb.org/bibliography.html#neurodamage

[Alan Weiss]

It's either fluoride or English teeth you choose...

[War Chef]

It should be mentioned that the #1 way people are exposed to fluoride is brushing teeth. The amount you get from toothpaste is exponentially greater than drinking 8 glasses of water a day. Even if you think you don't swallow any of it, you actually do. And also fluoride particles are very small and the mouth and cheeks are the best way to absorb anything, that's why tobacco products like snus or chew are taken sublingually.


It's either fluoride or English teeth you choose...

I'd rather sacrifice my teeth than compromise a single one of my precious brain functions. The benefits of fluoride on teeth enamel are minimal at best. Why not stop eating all that sugary shit and brush with fluoride free toothpaste or baking soda instead?

[StormBringer]

It's not the fluoride in pipes that scares me to death, it's the prospect of haphazardly built cesspools leaking into our wells.

[Darth Revan]

"Fluoridation is the greatest case of scientific fraud of this century"

-Robert Carlton, Ph. D., former U. S. EPA scientist on " Marketplace" Canadian Broadcast Company, Nov. 24, 1992

[SkyBurn]

Here is a pyramid of what intellectuals consider "good evidence" in terms of exposures and effects:

http://www.ijstd.org/articles/2012/33/1/images/IndianJSexTransmDis_2012_33_1_49_93829_u1.jpg

What most of these conspiracy "articles" cite are cross-sectional studies - AKA piss poor evidence. Not to mention the amount of correlation =/= causation mistakes that are being made. But please, keep on drinking the kool aid!

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Flouride today is bought from chinese industrial runoff and put in your water. There could be anything else in there as well. Sounds like great idea to me.

[Darth Revan]

What most of these conspiracy "articles" cite are cross-sectional studies - AKA piss poor evidence. Not to mention the amount of correlation =/= causation mistakes that are being made. But please, keep on drinking the kool aid!

Nobody is stopping from drinking as much fluoride as you'd like, in fact, the thing has already been added to a plethora of things.
If and when you are a parent, you're also welcome to poison your kids as much as you like.

[SkyBurn]

Nobody is stopping from drinking as much fluoride as you'd like, in fact, the thing has already been added to a plethora of things.
If and when you are a parent, you're also welcome to poison your kids as much as you like.

I will indeed continue to drink it. However, the issue isn't as simple as "let us drink what we want to drink". The anti-fluoride rabble is an unscientific group of fearmongerers that try and spread misinformation. I liken them to antivaxers.

Out of interest, do you support, say, the addition of folic acid to flour?

[Darth Revan]

I will indeed continue to drink it. However, the issue isn't as simple as "let us drink what we want to drink". The anti-fluoride rabble is an unscientific group of fearmongerers that try and spread misinformation. I liken them to antivaxers.

...
How dare some people not want the dental salvation of fluoride?

[Stimpy]

I don't think fluoride is very dangerous in small amounts at all, but still, it's not this necessity that people makes it out to be.

I've brushed my teeth with fluoride free tooth paste for about a bit over a year, I also drink and gurgle holy-basil tea daily which helps alot with mouth health and only drink water other than that. I have a clean, pink tongue, no stinky breath and relatively white teeth.

The only positive effect I've noticed from stopping using fluoride dental products is that if I for some reason don't brush my teeth for like 48 hours, my breath still doesn't stink and my tongue still looks clean. When I brushed with regular tooth-paste and mouth wash that wouldn't be the case.
Other than that there isn't really any difference, neither positive nor negative that I've noticed.