A message for the Tosk users.

[Herr Abubu]

Stop trying to project your insecurities about being Slavicized onto me. I know I am partially Slavic. I accept it. Well guess what, so are you.




I identify MAINLY as Gheg Albanian. I no longer wish to have anything to do with Tosks. Want to know why? You guys are artificial just like silicon tits. You're the descendants of Slavicized people, Greeks who adopted the Albanian language, Yugoslav migrants and people expelled out of Asia Minor, Gypsies, Turks, Bulgarian and God knows what the hell else. You were speaking Hellenic languages 500 years ago in many places on the mainland, and the people on your mainland are not even related to the people on your islands.

Half of the important people in Albania were from Gheg Albania. Why do you think it is called the mountain of giants? Greater Albania. Because we were greater. Stop taking credit for Skanderbeg and Karl Ritter von Gega and then dismissing us as inferiors today. Pay up, bitches.

There is no Tosk genetic signature.

You know, I used to want to embrace ancient Albanian history, but I am perfectly fine just being Gheg. Want to know why? A Gheg who looks like a Swede is genetically related to, and one, with a Gheg who looks like an Iraqi. They are not the descendants of the displaced or the people who converted to the dominant culture. They are ONE unified people and that's enough for me.

So you can take your fake sense of nationhood and stop making fun of me day in and day out and shove your attitudes where the sun don't shine.

And btw, your "Alpine" types look Slavicized and weak as hell. I claim the Bulgarians as my new kin, because they know who they are and are not sell outs. Even if I don't see the cultural connection, I trust they have my back.

That's all!

[Pjeter Pan]

Herr Abubububu is a strong, empowered Gheg who need no Tosk ancestry.

[The.Mask]

I have 0% Tosk ancestry. i'm 100% Gheg.

[Kastrioti1443]

Tosk Discrimination!

It is is the time for the racist, violent and Tribal Ghegs to take power and the time for the National Front to rise.

Is the time for the giants of the right wing politics to take power and apply eugenics so in the future we will have more Dinarid, Dinarid/CM, CM, Norid,Norid/CM with corded influences Warriors and Academics.

Hail Prek Cali and Isa Boletini!!!

[Machete]

From what I have seen from both sides, tosks are civilized folks who can speak albanian faster and more harmonical, they have had the rule over ghegs for years since ghegs are tribal and dont understand nothing about state and government.

[Herr Abubu]

Tosk Discrimination!

It is is the time for the racist, violent and Tribal Ghegs to take power and the time for the National Front to rise.

Is the time for the giants of the right wing politics to take power and apply eugenics so in the future we will have more Dinarid, Dinarid/CM, CM, Norid,Norid/CM with corded influences Warriors and Academics.

Hail Prek Cali ans Isa Boletini!!!

Gheg conquest: the rise of the warrior-poets.

[Kastrioti1443]

Gheg conquest: the rise of the warrior-poets.

Let's take an academic and objective approach of the Ghegs that have commented here or are watching this thread;

Herr Abubu- Corded Nordid; Exellent bone structure, tall to very tall, very high IQ, high moral values, warrior poet

Duskfall- Corded East Nordid, Supreme Bone structure, very tall, high IQ, high moral values, brave

The Mask- Atlantid/CM, Very good bone structure, tall, robust, Good IQ, very high moral values, very brave

Dun - SubNordid, Good bone structure, Tall, High IQ, very good candidate for a future husband for our women in here

Kastrioti - All of above just more Dinarid influenced and with some psychopathic and violence problems ( diagnosis given by Apricity Jungs and Frojds). Natural leader devoted till death to our cause.


Tell me now, isn't this the indication of total Supremacy?



* Correction:Me might add fustan also.


Ok , again adding

Krashnick- North Pontid/CM, very tall, very good bone structure, natural muscles, high IQ, high moral values, brave but a bit too soft.

Archon Progon - he is my bro from other parents and no further comments are needed.

[Longbowman]

Edit: whoops. I thought this was the original. I've been awake a long time. Sincere apologies.

[KrashNick]

Let's take an academic and objective approach of the Ghegs that have commented here or are watching this thread;

Herr Abubu- Corded Nordid; Exellent bone structure, tall to very tall, very high IQ, high moral values, warrior poet

Duskfall- Corded East Nordid, Supreme Bone structure, very tall, high IQ, high moral values, brave

The Mask- Atlantid/CM, Very good bone structure, tall, robust, Good IQ, very high moral values, very brave

Dun - SubNordid, Good bone structure, Tall, High IQ, very good candidate for a future husband for our women in here

Kastrioti - All of above just more Dinarid influenced and with some psychopathic and violence problems ( diagnosis given by Apricity Jungs and Frojds). Natural leader devoted till death to our cause.


Tell me now, isn't this the indication of total Supremacy?



* Correction:Me might add fustan also.


Ok , again adding

Krashnick- North Pontid/CM, very tall, very good bone structure, natural muscles, high IQ, high moral values, brave but a bit too soft.

Archon Progon - he is my bro from other parents and no further comments are needed.

Maybe there is something tosk on me :D ?

[Kastrioti1443]

Maybe there is something tosk on me :D ?

That's what happens brother when you exchange liquids with slavic womenz.

[Kastrioti1443]

Old stock Slavic admixture in Western FYROM is always preferable to the FYROMIAN tomatofarmers with New-Slavic admixture.

Brother he exchanges liquids with western slavic balkan womenz and eastern ones.

[Tomorr]

all subhumans who oppose the mountain giants will be burned alive in front of their mothers

[Pjeter Pan]

Brother he exchanges liquids with western slavic balkan womenz and eastern ones.

If he cant kill Slavs, might as well as fuck their women, am I right?

[Kastrioti1443]

If he cant kill Slavs, might as well as fuck their women, am I right?

Hmmmm hard decision as my dick wants to talk too, about this matter, but I will try to speak coldly...

Maybe, but by doing that action you do not give a good example to the fellow females. Always lead by example, never forget that.

[Pjeter Pan]

Hmmmm hard decision as my dick wants to talk too, about this matter, but I will try to speak coldly...

Maybe, but by doing that action you do not give a good example to the fellow females. Always lead by example, never forget that.

Good advice bro. I will follow it.

[Tomorr]

Hmmmm hard decision as my dick wants to talk too, about this matter, but I will try to speak coldly...

Maybe, but by doing that action you do not give a good example to the fellow females. Always lead by example, never forget that.

You spoke well.

However, slav prostitutes will provide us with a good income to fund our conquest

[Dun93]

Abubu you are a legend man i feel bad that i was annoyed by you at first sight

[alb0zfinest]

Let's take an academic and objective approach of the Ghegs that have commented here or are watching this thread;

Herr Abubu- Corded Nordid; Exellent bone structure, tall to very tall, very high IQ, high moral values, warrior poet

Duskfall- Corded East Nordid, Supreme Bone structure, very tall, high IQ, high moral values, brave

The Mask- Atlantid/CM, Very good bone structure, tall, robust, Good IQ, very high moral values, very brave

Dun - SubNordid, Good bone structure, Tall, High IQ, very good candidate for a future husband for our women in here

Kastrioti - All of above just more Dinarid influenced and with some psychopathic and violence problems ( diagnosis given by Apricity Jungs and Frojds). Natural leader devoted till death to our cause.


Tell me now, isn't this the indication of total Supremacy?



* Correction:Me might add fustan also.


Ok , again adding

Krashnick- North Pontid/CM, very tall, very good bone structure, natural muscles, high IQ, high moral values, brave but a bit too soft.

Archon Progon - he is my bro from other parents and no further comments are needed.

Lol. That's kind of fucked up. You have all of this good this good that about those other people and you put "no further comments are needed" for progon lol.

[Herr Abubu]

Lol. That's kind of fucked up. You have all of this good this good that about those other people and you put "no further comments are needed" for progon lol.

No it isn't. Some things aren't easily spoken but easily understood. If you weren't a complete Gamma male you would have understood.

[alb0zfinest]

No it isn't. Some things aren't easily spoken but easily understood. If you weren't a complete Gamma male you would have understood.

If you're going to try and insult, at least make the read worthwhile. Or perhaps make it slightly original, because you sound like the blue pill you so often criticize. In any case, I understood just fine. He couldn't say the same thing about progon because he still thinks progons phenotype is "off." So instead he just said; "he is my bro from other parents" and no further comments were needed.

[Trogdor]

I am a full Gheg that apparently looks like a Ukrainian to Kastrioti.

I will embrace my Ukrainian heritage. Honorable men who were searching for refugee in the midlands of western Kosovo.

Just noticed that your avatar is that dancing kid Duane. :lol:

[Kastrioti1443]

You spoke well.

However, slav prostitutes will provide us with a good income to fund our conquest

Ah brother only if these prostitutes will come with their own desire, not trafficked, as they are humans also.


If you're going to try and insult, at least make the read worthwhile. Or perhaps make it slightly original, because you sound like the blue pill you so often criticize. In any case, I understood just fine. He couldn't say the same thing about progon because he still thinks progons phenotype is "off." So instead he just said; "he is my bro from other parents" and no further comments were needed.

Herr Abubu is not easily understood by everyone as his diction is deep and a bit complicated at the same time. You didn't get his point.

About Archon i said that not because of what you mentioned, he is fine on that matter, but i said it like that just because I felt it so.

[alb0zfinest]

Ah brother only if these prostitutes will come with their own desire, not trafficked, as they are humans also.



Herr Abubu is not easily understood by everyone as his diction is deep and a bit complicated at the same time. You didn't get his point.

About Archon i said that not because of what you mentioned, he is fine on that matter, but i said it like that just because I felt it so.

I actually think you didn't get my point. Re read what I said, maybe that can help.

Come on man, for like 1-2 years in this forum you criticized him for looking Tunisian (quite alot of the time you were actually serious), and now all of a sudden he is fine on that matter? I mean you changed your opinion of him, how he is as a person, and think of him as a good friend and good person, but i highly doubt you changed your mind about his phenotype (at best you're making an exception on progons case because as i said you regard him as a friend and he has a similar mentality to you). And if you are actually here to sell me that stuff, don't bother you won't get very far.

[Kastrioti1443]

I actually think you didn't get my point. Re read what I said, maybe that can help.

Come on man, for like 1-2 years in this forum you criticized him for looking Tunisian (quite alot of the time you were actually serious), and now all of a sudden he is fine on that matter? I mean you changed your opinion of him, how he is as a person, and think of him as a good friend and good person, but i highly doubt you changed your mind about his phenotype (at best you're making an exception on progons case because as i said you regard him as a friend and he has a similar mentality to you). And if you are actually here to sell me that stuff, don't bother you won't get very far.

My Japanese looking friend, i got your point very well and if you ever think i will give explanation to anyone of what I do, you are out if your mind. If you ever think that i want to sell to you things on the internet your IQ drops even lower.

You will never actually get if I am serious or joking, few people can here, just like you didn't get that in fact, Herr Abubu was joking with you and wasn't serious.

Now if you want, you can re continue with your very deep and detailed analyze of every comment here, even when the comments are totally useless.

Now I have to go to sleep. Have a nice day.

[alb0zfinest]

My Japanese looking friend, i got your point very well and if you ever think i will give explanation to anyone of what I do, you are out if your mind. If you ever think that i want to sell to you things on the internet your IQ drops even lower.

You will never actually get if I am serious or joking, few people can here, just like you didn't get that in fact, Herr Abubu was joking with you and wasn't serious.

Now if you want, you can re continue with your very deep and detailed analyze of every comment here, even when the comments are totally useless.

Now I have to go to sleep. Have a nice day.

I wasn't expecting an explanation of what you do, so that's pretty random.

I can tell fairly well. I mean even putting aside the fact that you called progon non-albanian non stop and criticized him for even posting his picture in members pictures thread 2 by saying gypsies posting their pictures non-stop to make Albanians look woggier, you also criticized progon even after he got his results. Saying l2 or whatever his haplogroup was he shared with Indians and that he wasn't Albanian. Now all of a sudden after all of this you were just joking? nigga please. I remember even in the beginning I used to criticize you for criticizing progon always calling him a gypsy, Tunisian mongrel etc etc.

Herr Abubu wasn't joking.

This isn't something deep. Fairly obvious things really.

[Tomorr]

Ah brother only if these prostitutes will come with their own desire, not trafficked, as they are humans also.

hehe :D I am absolutely sure that slavic prostitutes will voluntarily and eagerly aid our cause, for the glory of Ghegnia, they will spread their legs!

[Sideritis]

Tosk Discrimination!

It is is the time for the racist, violent and Tribal Ghegs to take power and the time for the National Front to rise.

Is the time for the giants of the right wing politics to take power and apply eugenics so in the future we will have more Dinarid, Dinarid/CM, CM, Norid,Norid/CM with corded influences Warriors and Academics.

Hail Prek Cali and Isa Boletini!!!

Did you even know that Tom Doshi is a grandgrandgrandson of Prek Cali? lol I heard it somewhere, but I thought to ask you to confirm.

[Sideritis]

Stop trying to project your insecurities about being Slavicized onto me. I know I am partially Slavic. I accept it. Well guess what, so are you.




I identify MAINLY as Gheg Albanian. I no longer wish to have anything to do with Tosks. Want to know why? You guys are artificial just like silicon tits. You're the descendants of Slavicized people, Greeks who adopted the Albanian language, Yugoslav migrants and people expelled out of Asia Minor, Gypsies, Turks, Bulgarian and God knows what the hell else. You were speaking Hellenic languages 500 years ago in many places on the mainland, and the people on your mainland are not even related to the people on your islands.

Half of the important people in Albania were from Gheg Albania. Why do you think it is called the mountain of giants? Greater Albania. Because we were greater. Stop taking credit for Skanderbeg and Karl Ritter von Gega and then dismissing us as inferiors today. Pay up, bitches.

There is no Tosk genetic signature.

You know, I used to want to embrace ancient Albanian history, but I am perfectly fine just being Gheg. Want to know why? A Gheg who looks like a Swede is genetically related to, and one, with a Gheg who looks like an Iraqi. They are not the descendants of the displaced or the people who converted to the dominant culture. They are ONE unified people and that's enough for me.

So you can take your fake sense of nationhood and stop making fun of me day in and day out and shove your attitudes where the sun don't shine.

And btw, your "Alpine" types look Slavicized and weak as hell. I claim the Bulgarians as my new kin, because they know who they are and are not sell outs. Even if I don't see the cultural connection, I trust they have my back.

That's all!

As a Tosk myself, I feel flattered that you took your time, to write your feelings in the middle of a post-Saturday night. Would like to add also that unfortunately we have only one Island, since the other were sized by the Greeks. So there is not much difference among mainlanders and islanders since that Island is inhabitable. I would also love to to tell you more in our favour, but since you are Bulgarian now, there is no need to talk to an outsider. LLA

[Herr Abubu]

If you're going to try and insult, at least make the read worthwhile. Or perhaps make it slightly original, because you sound like the blue pill you so often criticize. In any case, I understood just fine. He couldn't say the same thing about progon because he still thinks progons phenotype is "off." So instead he just said; "he is my bro from other parents" and no further comments were needed.

I am not insulting you, it is fact. You are a Gamma male and are therefore incapable of understanding men like Kastrioti.

[Minesweeper]

Are there any Tosks here to protect themselfes from hillbilly and pro-hillbilly attacks?

[Wadaad]

Was Muhammad Ali Pasha tosk or gheg?

[Herr Abubu]

Are there any Tosks here to protect themselfes from hillbilly and pro-hillbilly attacks?

Sideritis, Safinator, Geni and Abeja are Tosks. This is not an attack by the way, this is an all-out defense of Ghegdom.


Was Muhammad Ali Pasha tosk or gheg?

I can't find anything about his ancestral place of origin, only that he was born in what is now Northeastern Greece, Greek Macedonia, surely a descendant of Albanian settlers from somewhere I don't know.

[Kastrioti1443]

Was Muhammad Ali Pasha tosk or gheg?

Of what i know, his father was from Laberia ( southwest) while his mother was somewhere from Kosovo.

[Sideritis]

Was Muhammad Ali Pasha tosk or gheg?

Muhammed Ali Pasha was a Tosk born in Kavala now days situated in North-East Greece.

[Herr Abubu]

Muhammed Ali Pasha was a Tosk born in Kavala now days situated in North-East Greece.

I cannot find anything that reveals whether he was a Gheg or a Tosk so how do you know?

[Sideritis]

Are there any Tosks here to protect themselfes from hillbilly and pro-hillbilly attacks?

Since you are a serb, I guess you should stay out of this.

[Sideritis]

I saw this documentary lately about Albanian speakers in Konica. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDlfV92gLOQ) Is a shame that Marin Mema, the journalist was declared Persona Non Grata from the Greek authorities. It makes no sense.

[Abeja]

Lol let's just wait for Altin to see this thread :icon_cheesygrin:


Sideritis, Safinator, Geni and Abeja are Tosks.

I'm Gheg.

[Herr Abubu]

Lol let's just wait for Altin to see this thread :icon_cheesygrin:



I'm Gheg.

You're from Kavajë, aren't you? Not Gheg.


I am afraid Geni wins then. He's by far the most ubermensch and big looking of the bunch.

Just LOL buddyboy. Geni has a TINY skull and is unable to string a few words together to form a sentence. That guy is a legit subhuman if there ever were one.

[Dun93]

Who hatesGhegs is obviously a hater of perfection

[Sideritis]

You're from Kavajë, aren't you? Not Gheg.



Just LOL buddyboy. Geni has a TINY skull and is unable to string a few words together to form a sentence. That guy is a legit subhuman if there ever were one.

Upper Shkubin is the initial border of the Ghegs. One may argue that people from Mid-Albania should be considered a separate group from Tosks and Ghegs but this is the situation for the time being.

[Abeja]

You're from Kavajë, aren't you? Not Gheg.

Kavajaset are Ghegs, though we have some very minor Tosk cultural unfluences.

[Not a Cop]

How can i become Gheg?

[Herr Abubu]

Kavajaset are Ghegs, though we have some very minor Tosk cultural unfluences.

They were, but not anymore. Migrations northwards of Tosks, "Toskification" under Communism and so on.


How can i become Gheg?

Help me re-establish ZOG (http://www.royalark.net/Albania/albania-Zog%20I.jpg) rule and find me a pretty Russian waifu.

[Abeja]

They were, but not anymore. Migrations northwards of Tosks, "Toskification" under Communism and so on.

It was far from being a widespread process. I can tell you having been there many times and in the south too, that the core is still very Gheg: physical appearences, traditional clothes, dialect etc.etc. Maybe just the music is a little bit Toskified, true.

As for myself I can trace my ancestors for 400 years and they were all in this zone.

[Era]

They were, but not anymore. Migrations northwards of Tosks, "Toskification" under Communism and so on.

.

Nope, only Tirana had a toskification. Kavaja and other middle Albanian towns and villages remained the same. They are gheg in dialect.

[Herr Abubu]

Nope, only Tirana had a toskification. Kavaja and other middle Albanian towns and villages remained the same. They are gheg in dialect.

No, the whole of Central Albania faced this process. Ghegnia starts in Krujë and Mat.

[alb0zfinest]

I am not insulting you, it is fact. You are a Gamma male and are therefore incapable of understanding men like Kastrioti.

:bowlol::bowlol:
Oh, the irony.

[Era]

No, the whole of Central Albania faced this process. Ghegnia starts in Krujë and Mat.

lol. No.

[Sideritis]

Nope, only Tirana had a toskification. Kavaja and other middle Albanian towns and villages remained the same. They are gheg in dialect.

In the latest flooding in South Albanian, I noticed that there were few Ghegs families which have migrated in areas around Vlora and Fier. I was so surprised when I heard a family which house was flooded in a village close to Vlora, who spoke heavy Gheg.

[Era]

In the latest flooding in South Albanian, I noticed that there were few Ghegs families which have migrated in areas around Vlora and Fier. I was so surprised when I heard a family which house was flooded in a village close to Vlora, who spoke heavy Gheg.

Derisa zbriten ne Durres s'me duket cudi qe kane shku edhe ne Vlore. I ke ngju kuksianet qe jane durrsian :D

[Atvend]

Alright, alright you fucks. The intellectual damage that has been sustained here will take years to undo.
Tosk and gheg are merely dialect groups (groups as in they have several subdialects of their own), not cultural identities, give it a rest.

[Sideritis]

Derisa zbriten ne Durres s'me duket cudi qe kane shku edhe ne Vlore. I ke ngju kuksianet qe jane durrsian :D

Mire se ata te Kuksit s'kane faj se ngelen duke u permbytur, por deri ne Vlore s'ma merrte mendja. Ka nje levizje nga lart-poshte dhe nga poshte-lart neper Shqiperi apparentely.

[Era]

Mire se ata te Kuksit s'kane faj se ngelen duke u permbytur, por deri ne Vlore s'ma merrte mendja. Ka nje levizje nga lart-poshte dhe nga poshte-lart neper Shqiperi apparentely.

Nga poshte lart pervec martesave s'kam pare. Shembuj?

[alb0zfinest]

Alright, alright you fucks. The intellectual damage that has been sustained here will take years to undo.
Tosk and gheg are merely dialect groups (groups as in they have several subdialects of their own), not cultural identities, give it a rest.

Kids these days man. :rolleyes: :D

[Sideritis]

all subhumans who oppose the mountain giants will be burned alive in front of their mothers

You reminded me, that just lately a very special species of flower was discovered in the mountains of Tomorri, Lulekembana Vezulluese.

http://www.respublica.al/artikuj/2015/03/01/zeri-i-amerikes-raporton-se-botanistet-kane-zbuluar-ne-malin-e-tomorrit-nje-lule-

[Sideritis]

Nga poshte lart pervec martesave s'kam pare. Shembuj?

Up to Tirana at least.

[Herr Abubu]

lol. No.

Look, Chloe, the chances of you being right in an argument with me are so low that it is a statistical impossibility. From now on you should simply nod whenever I make an assertion.

[Herr Abubu]

Alright, alright you fucks. The intellectual damage that has been sustained here will take years to undo.

Why are you here, then? Someone unable to follow simple logical arguments and unable to differentiate between a pack and a hive has no place in an intellectual discussion.


Tosk and gheg are merely dialect groups (groups as in they have several subdialects of their own), not cultural identities, give it a rest.

You would have to lack any capability whatsoever to experience anything if you assert that. Tosk and Gheg are quite clearly cultural identities of their own. They are different tribes even.

[Atvend]

Why are you here, then? Someone unable to follow simple logical arguments and unable to differentiate between a pack and a hive has no place in an intellectual discussion.

Ah Herr Buba, god of unbacked assertions, you have to demonstrate your own logical consistency first before attacking mine.


You would have to lack any capability whatsoever to experience anything if you assert that. Tosk and Gheg are quite clearly cultural identities of their own. They are different tribes even.

Gheg and Tosk are by definition dialects. Dialects are components of a cultural identity yes, but they are not cultural identities on their own. If you were even slightly involved in daily Albanian affairs you would know that these terms are so scarcely used they are practically nonexistent, except for maybe linguistic circles.

[Partia e Forte]

This thread looks like a troll to me

[Longbowman]

Guize he copypastad this from Sikeliot's [now deleted] thread, and replaced 'Greek' and such with 'Tosk.' Is troll.

[Trun]

Guize he copypastad this from Sikeliot's [now deleted] thread, and replaced 'Greek' and such with 'Tosk.' Is troll.

Don't speak like this to my new Bulgarian brother.

[Longbowman]

Don't speak like this to my new Bulgarian brother.

Is this a threat?

[Trun]

Is this a threat?

Yes.

Choose a weapon.

[Longbowman]

Yes.

Choose a weapon.

Sanctions.

[Trun]

And arena.

I choose the arena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plovdiv_Roman_theatre).

[Sideritis]

Yes.

Choose a weapon.

Nobody can harm Longbowman on Albanian soil.:aufsmaul_2:

[Herr Abubu]

Ah Herr Buba, god of unbacked assertions, you have to demonstrate your own logical consistency first before attacking mine.

Your inability to understand how logic works and your inability to understand logical arguments the foremost philosophers of times past and today have understood and used is not something you can turn on me.


Gheg and Tosk are by definition dialects. Dialects are components of a cultural identity yes, but they are not cultural identities on their own. If you were even slightly involved in daily Albanian affairs you would know that these terms are so scarcely used they are practically nonexistent, except for maybe linguistic circles.

The differences between Gheg and Tosk are too great to be considered mere dialectical divisions. And they are cultural identities of their own. This is an argument on two categories, not the daily affairs of Albanians. The ongoing process to unify Albanians has gone a long way to make that a reality. The same is true all over Europe. Ghegs and Tosks are the same people only in the same sense that Sicilians and Venetians (or take any other example from pre-nationalism Italy, or, f.e., the case of the Bavarians, Austrians and Germans) are the same people. The classification of Ghegs and Tosks as one nation is political, not linguistic or in any way scholarly, "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy."

[Herr Abubu]

Don't speak like this to my new Bulgarian brother.

Thanks, brother. You and yours know who you are and are not sell outs. We may not be culturally related, but I trusted you to have my back, and you have. A most courteous bow to you, Bulgarian gentleman.

[Abeja]

Your inability to understand how logic works and your inability to understand logical arguments the foremost philosophers of times past and today have understood and used is not something you can turn on me.



The differences between Gheg and Tosk are too great to be considered mere dialectical divisions. And they are cultural identities of their own. This is an argument on two categories, not the daily affairs of Albanians. The ongoing process to unify Albanians has gone a long way to make that a reality. The same is true all over Europe. Ghegs and Tosks are the same people only in the same sense that Sicilians and Venetians (or take any other example from pre-nationalism Italy, or, f.e., the case of the Bavarians, Austrians and Germans) are the same people. The classification of Ghegs and Tosks as one nation is political, not linguistic or in any way scholarly, "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy."

Sicilians and Venetians are not a good example. Bavarians and Austrians looks more legit.

[Trun]

Thanks, brother. You and yours know who you are and are not sell outs. We may not be culturally related, but I trusted you to have my back, and you have. A most courteous bow to you, Bulgarian gentleman.

Unfortunately Bulgarians have much more in common culturally with Tosks than with Ghegs but at least we are proud like the Ghegs and we know who our brothers are.


nobody.


Cheers.

[Herr Abubu]

Sicilians and Venetians are not a good example. Bavarians and Austrians looks more legit.

No, Sicilians and Venetians are a very good example. Alfieb, a Sicilian with an interest in Sicilian history, would surely think so, too.

[Abeja]

No, Sicilians and Venetians are a very good example. Alfieb, a Sicilian with an interest in Sicilian history, would surely think so, too.

I think my opinion is more worthy than that of a guy that lives in the other side of the world since I experience these people basically everyday.
No, the difference between Sicilians and Venetians is way wider than that of Tosks and Ghegs.

[Longbowman]

No, Sicilians and Venetians are a very good example. Alfieb, a Sicilian with an interest in Sicilian history, would surely think so, too.

Well; genetically speaking, Venetians and Sicilians are empirically orders of magnitude further apart; Sicilians are more closely related to Albanians than either are to Venetians.

[Sideritis]

Thanks, brother. You and yours know who you are and are not sell outs. We may not be culturally related, but I trusted you to have my back, and you have. A most courteous bow to you, Bulgarian gentleman.

Wait, so you accept to be a Bulgarian without being culturally related? Interesting.
If you just want your back covered, you could as well not convert to any other ethnicity.

[Atvend]

Your inability to understand how logic works and your inability to understand logical arguments the foremost philosophers of times past and today have understood and used is not something you can turn on me.

What are you talking about boy? When have I ever touched any philosophical topic on this forum for you to make such claim? You know nothing of my knowledge over philosophy, you are once again throwing baseless assertions.


The differences between Gheg and Tosk are too great to be considered mere dialectical divisions. And they are cultural identities of their own. This is an argument on two categories, not the daily affairs of Albanians. The ongoing process to unify Albanians has gone a long way to make that a reality. The same is true all over Europe. Ghegs and Tosks are the same people only in the same sense that Sicilians and Venetians (or take any other example from pre-nationalism Italy, or, f.e., the case of the Bavarians, Austrians and Germans) are the same people. The classification of Ghegs and Tosks as one nation is political, not linguistic or in any way scholarly, "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy."

DEFINE is a term they use in formal logic, do you know what it means esteemed logician? When you define Gheg and Tosk as dialects, then any difference between the two is bound to be linguistic in nature. I know what you truly mean though, you are referring to northern and southern Albanians. My problem was with the incorrect use of the linguistic terms Gheg and Tosk in a cultural context. Merely a technicality...

And as for your comparison, why don't you open a map and look at Sicily and then Venice? Notice the distance, you can probably fit 3-3.5 Albanias in it. Sicily alone has the population of Albania and Kosovo combined. Now look at Germany and Austria. Notice their size combined, 10-15 times the size of Albania I would say. Their population combined falls short of 90 million. Now are you telling me that barely 5 million people on a patch of land around the range of 30k km^2 are as regionally distinct as these aforementioned nations with a long history of border changes? I don't even need to get further invested in this to know that there is something wrong with your comparison.

But fine, if you want to have it your way, have it your way. Question is where is the line drawn being that there is no objective way of telling when the differences are too big. Surely the other ghegs all speak different subdialects than my region so we must be different people. But then the villages around my town also speak weird, so they too are different people. My neighbor doesn't practice the same traditions as me so he too belongs to another people. Well shit, the younger me had different views and spoke more archaically so fuck him too...

Where do you draw the line?

[Trun]

Wait, so you accept to be a Bulgarian without being culturally related? Interesting.
If you just want your back covered, you could as well not convert to any other ethnicity.

We will Bulgarize him, we have a lot of experience with Bulgarizing Tosks, may apply it on a Gheg for a change.

[Herr Abubu]

I think my opinion is more worthy than that of a guy that lives in the other side of the world since I experience these people basically everyday.
No, the difference between Sicilians and Venetians is way wider than that of Tosks and Ghegs.


Well; genetically speaking, Venetians and Sicilians are empirically orders of magnitude further apart; Sicilians are more closely related to Albanians than either are to Venetians.

The both of you have seriously misunderstood my point. I will leave it to you to understand why as I think you can learn more that way.

[Longbowman]

The both of you have seriously misunderstood my point. I will leave it to you to understand why as I think you can learn more that way.

This is patronising but I didn't engage with your point because you are trolling, not because I've misunderstood anything. The trolling is fine, if a little derived, I'm just not engaging with that part of the thread.

[Trun]

I thought your experience was Bulgarizing Greeks.

Not as much as they are experienced with Hellenizing Bulgarians.

[Ballist]

We must re-Ghegize south Albania, Enver will not win this fight! If we can't by blood, then by language. Because I cannot understand a fucking word when Tosks speak.

[Abeja]

The both of you have seriously misunderstood my point. I will leave it to you to understand why as I think you can learn more that way.

Got it perfectly, I was insisting in another point.
And please, don't talk with me with this veiled blatant arrogance. In order to to do so, you should have to be superior to me.

[Arbërori]

Dhe prap ne flasim si ka jugu... Win.

[Longbowman]

Got it perfectly, I was insisting in another point.
And please, don't talk with me with this veiled blatant arrogance. In order to to do so, you should have to be superior to me.

He thinks a lot of himself, but he means well.

[Skerdilaid]

Communication has been eased by the standard. For myself, I find that we are culturally more different rather then linguistically. Tosks actually are and fit under the "Balcanic" umbrella with the Greek, South Slavs such as Bulgarains and to some extent Servs, and Vlahs-Romanians (even linguistically they form the Balkan sprachbund), while we Ghegs are archaic and true to our roots and form our own cluster. I ain't playing like abubu though, I am srz :p

[Herr Abubu]

What are you talking about boy? When have I ever touched any philosophical topic on this forum for you to make such claim? You know nothing of my knowledge over philosophy, you are once again throwing baseless assertions.

It is my mistake, because you do not know that I asked for Loki to ban my other account and activate this one. I was also known as Panopticon. Anyway, you quite clearly do not understand logic. That I know. The greats agree with me and I with them.




DEFINE is a term they use in formal logic, do you know what it means esteemed logician?

Yes I do know what it means, though it is irrelevant. Try better.


When you define Gheg and Tosk as dialects, then any difference between the two is bound to be linguistic in nature.

I am not defining Gheg and Tosk as dialects, you are. What you are thinking of, however, is what is referred to as Gheg Albanian and Tosk Albanian, two supposed dialectical divisions, not the of the supposed dialects. Gheg and Tosk are categories, by the way, and categories and definitions are two distinct things, you could say they are categorically distinct.


I know what you truly mean though, you are referring to northern and southern Albanians. My problem was with the incorrect use of the linguistic terms Gheg and Tosk in a cultural context. Merely a technicality...

And Northern Albanian is synonymous with Gheg while Southern Albanian is synonymous with Tosk. Do not even think I will let you slime away through this one. But perhaps you are one of those people who refer to Scandinavians not as Scandinavians because that is a linguistic sub-group but as those-people-situated-in-the-northmost-region-of-Europe?


And as for your comparison, why don't you open a map and look at Sicily and then Venice? Notice the distance, you can probably fit 3-3.5 Albanias in it. Sicily alone has the population of Albania and Kosovo combined. Now look at Germany and Austria. Notice their size combined, 10-15 times the size of Albania I would say. Their population combined falls short of 90 million. Now are you telling me that barely 5 million people on a patch of land around the range of 30k km^2 are as regionally distinct as these aforementioned nations with a long history of border changes? I don't even need to get further invested in this to know that there is something wrong with your comparison.

The point is that they are supposedly of one people and of one nation, yet in the case of Venetians and Sicilians they are almost nothing alike each other and never would have been considered as such if it were not for political reasons, with the German case being similar, though not as extreme. My point then, obviously, is that Ghegs and Tosks are considered of one people and of one nation for similar reasons, as is the case all over Europe. It is a common notion among , hence my use of the adage "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy."


But fine, if you want to have it your way, have it your way. Question is where is the line drawn being that there is no objective way of telling when the differences are too big. Surely the other ghegs all speak different subdialects than my region so we must be different people. But then the villages around my town also speak weird, so they too are different people. My neighbor doesn't practice the same traditions as me so he too belongs to another people. Well shit, the younger me had different views and spoke more archaically so fuck him too...

Where do you draw the line?

Yes, these things are often quite murky. We do, however, know that there are too many grammatical, structural differences, lack of linguistic mutual intelligibility, different cultures and temperaments and so on. What separates them is probably greater than what separates for example Scandinavians. The political drive to unify these related but distinct tribes, as I would call them, started in the 19th century, at the same time as most of these nationalist movements.

[Herr Abubu]

Communication has been eased by the standard. For myself, I find that we are culturally more different rather then linguistically. Tosks actually are and fit under the "Balcanic" umbrella with the Greek, South Slavs such as Bulgarains and to some extent Servs, and Vlahs-Romanians (even linguistically they form the Balkan sprachbund), while we Ghegs are archaic and true to our roots and form our own cluster. I ain't playing like abubu though, I am srz :p

I am serious, but I am also playful. I suspect you came to understand that long ago.

[Herr Abubu]

We must re-Ghegize south Albania, Enver will not win this fight! If we can't by blood, then by language. Because I cannot understand a fucking word when Tosks speak.

NO.

[Ballist]

NO.

By language...

[Skerdilaid]

People from the mountains and other isolated areas are more conservative, clannish and prone to group loyalty than those from urbanized areas, more news at 8, movie at 11.

Yes indeed, but that is only a small fraction of the differences. Looking forward for the movie at 11.

[Sideritis]

Is it possible for you to explain? Except for the urban centers, what makes rural Tosks different from rural Ghegs?

The only difference among rural Tosks and Ghegs is Herr Abubu.

[Skerdilaid]

Is it possible for you to explain? Except for the urban centers, what makes rural Tosks different from rural Ghegs?

I am on my phone for the moment, and like Kurt, I would easier fly a plane then post a lengthy explanation :p I sort of though touched the bases on my first post.

[Era]

Is it possible for you to explain? Except for the urban centers, what makes rural Tosks different from rural Ghegs?

I am from the middle and have seen quite a lot of both and see no difference in their behavior. Both are laid back people who go out of their way to help you if you need something, while I find people in Tirana acting very cold if not rude sometimes.

[Atvend]

It is my mistake, because you do not know that I asked for Loki to ban my other account and activate this one. I was also known as Panopticon. Anyway, you quite clearly do not understand logic. That I know. The greats agree with me and I with them.

No I know very well that you are Panopticon, which is what baffles me the most. Next time, before humiliating yourself with another self conflicting ontological argument, try Godel's ontological proof instead, that has more weight behind its back. Friendly advice...


I am not defining Gheg and Tosk as dialects, you are. What you are thinking of, however, is what is referred to as Gheg Albanian and Tosk Albanian, two supposed dialectical divisions, not the of the supposed dialects. Gheg and Tosk are categories, by the way, and categories and definitions are two distinct things, you could say they are categorically distinct.

No I am not the one defining these terms, other people better than me defined them long ago.


And Northern Albanian is synonymous with Gheg while Southern Albanian is synonymous with Tosk. Do not even think I will let you slime away through this one. But perhaps you are one of those people who refer to Scandinavians not as Scandinavians because that is a linguistic sub-group but as those-people-situated-in-the-northmost-region-of-Europe?

No Northern Albanian is not necessarily synonymous with Gheg, neither is Southern Albanian synonymous with Tosk. In fact, a lot of kids in northern Albania today speak standard Albanian (Tosk) and not Gheg. If circumstances would allow the south could face a similar situation. Scandinavia is a geographical region, so it is perfectly fine to call people residing in it Scandinavians. Geghnia does not nor has it ever existed anywhere outside of the internet. Neither is there such a thing as Toskeria. There is Laberia and Chameria though...


The point is that they are supposedly of one people and of one nation, yet in the case of Venetians and Sicilians they are almost nothing alike each other and never would have been considered as such if it were not for political reasons, with the German case being similar, though not as extreme. My point then, obviously, is that Ghegs and Tosks are considered of one people and of one nation for similar reasons, as is the case all over Europe. It is a common notion among , hence my use of the adage "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy."

Yes, these things are often quite murky. We do, however, know that there are too many grammatical, structural differences, lack of linguistic mutual intelligibility, different cultures and temperaments and so on. What separates them is probably greater than what separates for example Scandinavians. The political drive to unify these related but distinct tribes, as I would call them, started in the 19th century, at the same time as most of these nationalist movements.

Define one people, what does it mean to be one people? Take a look at this site (http://www.albanianlanguage.net/dialects/AL/index.html) that Fustan posted on another thread and listen to the subdialects. Tell me if the Ghegs or Tosks are one people on their own. Maybe look at their regional traditions and costumes as well. The term "one people" depends on the standards you use to define it, if you loosen the standards enough the whole Balkan would be one people and you could make a nation out of it. Unrealistic...I don't understand what you are trying to achieve.

[kuqezi]

Tosks and Ghegs are two distinct divisions of the Albanian nation. The best comparison is with the ancient Greeks, the Tosks compareable to the Ionians and the Ghegs to the Dorians who were considered more pure Greek, warlike, and less foriegn mixture/influence.

In the 1800's the differences between Ghegs, Tosks, Labs, and Chams were WAY greater than they are today.

[Caballero]

Gheg== Noble Aurignacoids

Tosk== Peasant Alpines

[Suleiman Arian]

Close mouth. Tosks and communism were the best thing that happened to Albania.