Ancient Iranics

[Mortimer]

How did they looked like? Have they been regular Iranid, how many were blue eyed or blonde or Nordid/Irano-Nordid? Did they resembled Slavs or modern Iranians?

[Mortimer]

bump

[Sockorer]

Well, I imagine people from just north of the Caucasus, like Chechens, are the closest to the ancient Iranic steppe peoples and that they, the ancient Iranic steppe people, were slightly lighter than people like the Chechens. I also think they were closer to Northern Slavs than to modern day Iranians.

[Sockorer]

What, no challengers?!? :action-smiley-043:

[Sikeliot]

Iranid and Pontid, as well as Atlanto-Med are all similar types, so a lot of depigmented Iranids might resemble North Pontids. The question is, were light types more common in ancient Iran than modern? Possibly, but that'd require evidence of a darker population diluting them, and that is something we do not have.

[Sarmatian]

They looked like me, tr00 story.

[Sockorer]

The ancient Iranians were probably just like modern Iranians, but with a Whiter aristocracy.

[Anglojew]

They were initially similar to some modern Russians (blonde and blue eyed, East Nordids) but intermarried with a darker Caucasoid indigenous Central Asian element early on before mixing with Dravidian elements in South-Asia and even some Mongoloid and Australoid elements.

[Iron Sheik]

Iranians were androvono derived, that went south and west. They coalsensed somewhere between the oxus river and pamir valley. They probably look like what tajiks would be today, without east-Asian admixture. Atleast that is what tocharians/sogdians indicate. Probably looked like yaghnobis with more northern admixture. That goes atleast for the waves that went east and south.

[Anglojew]

The ancient Iranians were probably just like modern Iranians, but with a Whiter aristocracy.

Yes, the aristocracy was white by Northern European standards, for a long time. We can see this in Asian mummies:

http://www.meshrep.com/PicOfDay/mummies/goldilocks1.jpg

[Mortimer]

Yes, the aristocracy was white by Northern European standards, for a long time. We can see this in Asian mummies:

http://www.meshrep.com/PicOfDay/mummies/goldilocks1.jpg

why are you nordicist anglo-jew?

[Arch Hades]

Only the Andronovo have been proven to be "Nordic like", but lots of speculation.

1. For 1, we don't have their full genomes, just their pigmentation traits and Y chromosomes. The 65% Light hair and eyes and dominance of R1a1a suggest they'd be related to contempoary Central-East Europeans though..but only full genome data can shed better light.

2. It's not certain the Andronovo were the Proto Indo-Iranians

3. We have no idea how much genetic continuity the Andronovo had with later Persian aristocrats or something



The Iranian Persians are the ones who created all the awesome culture, incredible ancient cities like Persepolis, and the original duelistic and monotheistic mythologies like Zoroastrianism. So I would be very interested in their racial origins. I could really give a crap about the Andronovo or Indo-Iranian Scythians who just rode horses on the Plains all day and not much else.

[Styrian Mujo]

The original Iranics came from north of the Caucasus. Like other proto-Indo-Europeans they were most likely pred.Nordic. Later the original Nordic element of the proto-Iranians was only present in the Persian aristocracy.

[zarzian]

The original Iranics came from north of the Caucasus. Like other proto-Indo-Europeans they were most likely pred.Nordic. Later the original Nordic element of the proto-Iranians was only present in the Persian aristocracy.

lol, you don't say.

[Arch Hades]

The original Iranics came from north of the Caucasus. Like other proto-Indo-Europeans they were most likely pred.Nordic. Later the original Nordic element of the proto-Iranians was only present in the Persian aristocracy.

The Yamna who are typically identified as the Middle and late stage proto Indo-Europeans certainly were not phenotypically "Nordic".

They were darker skinned and eyed than present day Italians.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9faAor2hsHU/VQTCpkYlwdI/AAAAAAAAKAY/66NrPHxDoJ4/s1600/change.jpg


They had their major ancestral origins from Northeastern European Hunter Gathers, but also a Caucuses like Population.

It would be most accurate to say that "Nordics" evolved out of a mixture between Yamna Proto Indo-Europeans and pre Indo-Europeans in Northern Europe due to a unique ethnogenises, not that the proto Indo-Europeans were Nordic, because they weren't.

[Anglojew]

why are you nordicist anglo-jew?

I'm not. I mentioned they intermarried early with a darker group (probably Haplogroup Q's from Central Asia like me). I firmly believe all Indo-Europeans were once white in a Northern European sense though. I believe the evidence is there.

[Kamal900]

I'm not. I mentioned they intermarried early with a darker group (probably Haplogroup Q's from Central Asia like me). I firmly believe all Indo-Europeans were once white in a Northern European sense though. I believe the evidence is there.

Yes, they were. Much like how originally Jews looked very middle eastern and dark skinned before their intermarriage with white Europeans which gave rise to the modern Ashkenazi Jews. :thumb001:

[Kamal900]

Only the Andronovo have been proven to be "Nordic like", but lots of speculation.

1. For 1, we don't have their full genomes, just their pigmentation traits and Y chromosomes. The 65% Light hair and eyes and dominance of R1a1a suggest they'd be related to contempoary Central-East Europeans though..but only full genome data can shed better light.

2. It's not certain the Andronovo were the Proto Indo-Iranians

3. We have no idea how much genetic continuity the Andronovo had with later Persian aristocrats or something



The Iranian Persians are the ones who created all the awesome culture, incredible ancient cities like Persepolis, and the original duelistic and monotheistic mythologies like Zoroastrianism. So I would be very interested in their racial origins. I could really give a crap about the Andronovo or Indo-Iranian Scythians who just rode horses on the Plains all day and not much else.

Well, Zoroastrianism is as old as Hinduism, and both religions are derived from ancient proto-indo-iranian religion. The Persians didn't invent the religion, they just happened to belong the same religious beliefs as with other iranic peoples like Medians, Scythians and etc. There were two migration routes of the Indo-Aryans; one to the middle east which they founded the kingdom of Mitianni in the 15th century BC, and the other to the Indian subcontinent which form most of the indic culture in north India, Pakistan, eastern Afghanistan and Bangladesh.

[Anglojew]

Yes, they were. Much like how originally Jews looked very middle eastern and dark skinned before their intermarriage with white Europeans which gave rise to the modern Ashkenazi Jews. :thumb001:

Judeans looked like you. Are you dark-skinned and non-European looking?

[Kamal900]

Judeans looked like you. Are you dark-skinned and non-European looking?

No, but i think the ancient judeans look more Samaritan than me.

[Anglojew]

No, but i think the ancient judeans look more Samaritan than me.

Probably generally more like Randomguy but once again he doesn't have dark skin and could pass in Europe.

[Sikeliot]

Probably generally more like Randomguy but once again he doesn't have dark skin and could pass in Europe.

Randomguy looks like me kind of but less European.

Either way this idea that these ancient civilizations were once lighter and have gotten darker is never really true in my view and usually it makes more sense to assume the opposite happened.

[Anglojew]

Randomguy looks like me kind of but less European.

Either way this idea that these ancient civilizations were once lighter and have gotten darker is never really true in my view and usually it makes more sense to assume the opposite happened.

I guess it depends on the era. I think it's to do with climate i.e. the Ice Age.

[TheGoldenSon]

I am by no means an expert at this matter, but looking at the sculptures and reliefs on old palace walls the Iranians looked "darker" than today's Persians with a strong prevalence of curly and facial hair.

If anything the migrations of east Asians and the Vargarian-Slavic-Tartar slave routes in the the ninth century made them to a degree "whiter", especially in the northern regions around Teheran and Caspian sea which was a major slave trade nexus.

[Iron Sheik]

3. We have no idea how much genetic continuity the Andronovo had with later Persian aristocrats or something. Based on the samara yamnaya(which puts the average between 16-17%) derived results, at least a quarter, more or less, of the average Iranians genome belongs to the actual Indo-Iranian(considering that yamnaya represents proto-indo-europeans rather than indo-Iranians who became more diluted as they went south and south-west) invasions. Persian and Indo-Iranian aristocrats probably had a bit more.





I am by no means an expert at this matter, but looking at the sculptures and reliefs on old palace walls the Iranians looked "darker" than today's Persians with a strong prevalence of curly and facial hair.

If anything the migrations of east Asians and the Vargarian-Slavic-Tartar slave routes in the the ninth century made them to a degree "whiter", especially in the northern regions around Teheran and Caspian sea which was a major slave trade nexus.
Turkic admixture is absolutely minimal in most of Iran, save for khorasan. In western iran, the admixture reaches around 1-3% in azeris at most.






The Iranian Persians are the ones who created all the awesome culture, incredible ancient cities like Persepolis, and the original duelistic and monotheistic mythologies like Zoroastrianism. So I would be very interested in their racial origins. I could really give a crap about the Andronovo or Indo-Iranian Scythians who just rode horses on the Plains all day and not much else.
Iranian Persians and indeed most west-Iranians descend from post-Neolithic cultures, that had their own autchonous culture. That were related to other post-Neolithic cultures in north-west asia. Indo-Iranians only contributed with some of their genes and their culture. Much like the anglo-Saxons in England. They took over the hegemony from already advanced cultures. Their influence was mainly spiritual and linguistic.

[lameduck]

Pashtun and tajik pamiri type(prob less mixed with other elements). these groups also have highest yamnaya based ancestry.

[Iron Sheik]

Pashtun and tajik pamiri type(prob less mixed with other elements). these groups also have highest yamnaya based ancestry.

d4nny, where have you been all this time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unRldLdllZ8

[blogen]

They were similar to the contemporary Iranians (minus the Mongoloid influence).