Spanish and Portuguese 23andme results!

[Sikeliot]

I am now spending a bit less time on Sicily, and posting more Iberian stuff. So I am going to use this thread to post Spanish and Portuguese results. I have added several people, so now we can compare Spain and Portugal regionally.

I anticipate regional differences will be there.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Why don't you make thread also about your other ancestry, like Sardian, Calabrese Italian or Slavic Polish.

[Sikeliot]

Why don't you make thread also about your also ancestry, like Sardian, Calabrese or Polish.

I don't have an interest in Northeast Europe, Sardinia, and I am not part Calabrese.

[Sikeliot]

Malaga, Andalusia:

http://i60.tinypic.com/2aahmxj.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/2r4hf13.jpg

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

I don't have an interest in Northeast Europe, Sardinia, and I am not part Calabrese.

I see, I'm just helping with some ideas that you can also make about here. And why not? As for the other, thought you had some Calabrese ancestry.

[Dylan]

Malaga, Andalusia:

http://i60.tinypic.com/2aahmxj.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/2r4hf13.jpg

I'm surprised they have such little north african ancestry given the location of Andalusia. .7% is practically noise, I would expect something a little more significant.

[Sikeliot]

I'm surprised they have such little north african ancestry given the location of Andalusia. .7% is practically noise, I would expect something a little more significant.

Some of it is getting sucked into the "Iberian" cluster.

[gold_fenix]

I'm surprised they have such little north african ancestry given the location of Andalusia. .7% is practically noise, I would expect something a little more significant.

i half Andalucian

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e87/Divad_Ocsarrac/117f6fa0-d53b-47f7-998d-410854451285_zpsd11d41eb.jpg

[Dylan]

i half Andalucian

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e87/Divad_Ocsarrac/117f6fa0-d53b-47f7-998d-410854451285_zpsd11d41eb.jpg

Andalusian is a lot whiter than I thought it was, damn.

[Sikeliot]

Andalusian is a lot whiter than I thought it was, damn.

As I said if you broke down the "Iberian" component, it'd get filtered into others. It'd probably become filtered into Sardinian, Irish/British and North African.

[Dylan]

Some of it is getting sucked into the "Iberian" cluster.

By this do you mean that na is so consistent in iberian dna, that it somewhat fits under the label of iberian ethnicity?

[Sikeliot]

By this do you mean that na is so consistent in iberian dna, that it somewhat fits under the label of iberian ethnicity?

Correct. Just as if you removed "Italian", some of it would go into "Middle Eastern" and the rest into "French and German" and "Sardinian" probably.

[Dylan]

Correct. Just as if you removed "Italian", some of it would go into "Middle Eastern" and the rest into "French and German" and "Sardinian" probably.

that make's interpreting dna testing so much harder

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

I'm surprised they have such little north african ancestry given the location of Andalusia. .7% is practically noise, I would expect something a little more significant.

Everything under 1% is practically noise.

[Empecinado]

I'm surprised they have such little north african ancestry given the location of Andalusia. .7% is practically noise, I would expect something a little more significant.

Not surprising if you know its history and demographical changes.

[Dylan]

Not surprising if you know its history and demographical changes.

But more surprising if you're like me and have only the vaguest understanding of its history and demographical changes!

[dude]

Malaga, Andalusia:

Is this meant to be a proof for Iberian moor influence?

[Longbowman]

Is Ashkenazi common in full Iberian results? Maybe you are all part Sephardic...

[Dylan]

Is Ashkenazi common in full Iberian results? Maybe you are all part Sephardic...

how closely related are Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews?

[Longbowman]

how closely related are Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews?

Very, like Spaniards and Portuguese.

[Petalpusher]

i half Andalucian



What is your other half?

[Raikaswinþs]

As I said if you broke down the "Iberian" component, it'd get filtered into others. It'd probably become filtered into Sardinian, Irish/British and North African.

Of course, because Iberians can be broken down into a mixture of Irish, Sards and Moors. :rolleyes: At least An-troll-pologique has the habit to quote the studies and peer reviewed papers in which he bases his "muh-atlantic-facade" benign trolling. You could do the same so it doesn't sound like you pull this things out of your arse :P

[Damião de Góis]

Of course, because Iberians can be broken down into a mixture of Irish, Sards and Moors. :rolleyes: At least An-troll-pologique has the habit to quote the studies and peer reviewed papers in which he bases his "muh-atlantic-facade" benign trolling. You could do the same so it doesn't sound like you pull this things out of your arse :P

Don't bother, he'll post the same thing tomorrow again.

[gold_fenix]

What is your other half?

Castilla la Mancha

[Anthropologique]

I'm surprised they have such little north african ancestry given the location of Andalusia. .7% is practically noise, I would expect something a little more significant.

It is noise - less than 1%. People have the wrong idea about Iberians. On average, they actually have more than 50% N. Euro markers. The Straights of Gibraltar are difficult to navigate.

[Annie999]

This one is uruguayan, but her 4 grandparents came from Spain (I know because she's a friend of my mom)

http://s4.postimg.org/5mdk7b6cr/uruspain.jpg

[Anthropologique]

This one is uruguayan, but her 4 grandparents came from Spain (I know because she's a friend of my mom)

http://s4.postimg.org/5mdk7b6cr/uruspain.jpg

No pic.

[Petalpusher]

Of course, because Iberians can be broken down into a mixture of Irish, Sards and Moors. :rolleyes: At least An-troll-pologique has the habit to quote the studies and peer reviewed papers in which he bases his "muh-atlantic-facade" benign trolling. You could do the same so it doesn't sound like you pull this things out of your arse :P

On that he is right, a national cluster is a makeup of different things. Green for example score close to 100% Iberian and doesn't show MENA but in autosomal he gets about 5% N.African and some SSA, so this is more or less what is embedded. We also have an Algerian member who score less SSA than the results posted in first page, yet do you think an Algerian has more or less SSA than a full Iberian?.. of course it's like ten to twenty times more and embedded in the North African cluster for the Algerian.

The AC is an exercise of balance based on nationalities or meta nationalities, it isn't an ethnicity breakdown in the racial sense or a deep ancestral composition like an autosomal. People don't buy that, it's primarly for people (US mostly) who wants to know what propotions of colonial nationalities they have in their DNA, they want to know how much English, French, German, Iberian,.. they are, not the ethnogenesis of all these countries in details (that comes later eventually..) Unless the balancing force them to show excess of some distinct components, a country has defacto its own embedded specificities. Most of the time you won't get 100% of your nationalities and show some other elements.

[Annie999]

No pic.

Pic wasn't requested, also no one has posted any pics yet. Honestly not confortable posting my mom's friend picture here. She has olive skin, dark eyes and hair.

[Sikeliot]

Of course, because Iberians can be broken down into a mixture of Irish, Sards and Moors. :rolleyes: At least An-troll-pologique has the habit to quote the studies and peer reviewed papers in which he bases his "muh-atlantic-facade" benign trolling. You could do the same so it doesn't sound like you pull this things out of your arse :P

Is all you does make snide comments and shit all over everyone? You never contributes anything of value here..

[Raikaswinþs]

Is all you does make snide comments and shit all over everyone? You never contributes anything of value here..

When did I shit over you? I just stated that you never reference or provide sources of peer reviewed articles for any of your assertions. That's a critique. You say I don't contribute anything of value here? while I don't necessarily disagree with that statement, you should provide a way to find out what methodology you used to arrive to that conclusion. How do you value the value of someone's contribution in TA?

By the number of posts?

By the Approval Ratio ?

By the variety of topics in which a user post?

By the amount of participation the threads opened by that user get?

By the quality of that participation? (ie. if the discussion is constructive , or if it devolves into cheap trolling fast)

By economic contribution to the board .ie. how much of the users hard earned money (or hardly earned by the user's carer) payed into it?

By how much hate or love the user receives?


Now, I just think that you make that assertion because I critique your line of posting and question the legitimacy of your (what I personally consider) outrageous claims. But well, this is a quite a bit off topic , so perhaps let's leave it for another thread. We can open a thread for example to debate how do we value the contribution that members make to this thread.

[Sikeliot]

I decided to put all of the Madeiran Portuguese here side by side for people to see all of their results. They are all fully Madeiran.


#1

http://i61.tinypic.com/jrp9fl.jpg



#2

http://i61.tinypic.com/ztx0du.jpg




#3

http://i59.tinypic.com/2gxoboh.jpg





#4


http://i62.tinypic.com/5lnio0.jpg




#5


http://i57.tinypic.com/w1qqe1.jpg




#6

http://i60.tinypic.com/2yo5qbo.jpg





Half Madeiran half Irish

http://i57.tinypic.com/v624oz.jpg




Half Madeiran half Irish

http://i62.tinypic.com/24pew6x.jpg

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

The results seem to go hand to hand with history. Not so surprising, looking at history, something like that should be expected more or less. Everything is over 98+ Euro and under 1% other. The "Limpieza de Sangre", history and DNA results show this by the low score of under 1% results.

As history tells, it goes hand to hand with what the results tells, the Moors were not more than 5% of the Iberian peninsula, they were basically just a small group that converted a big group of Spaniards to Islam. Most of the "Moriscos" being racially native Iberians. Most of them with under 1% 'North African' these less than 1% must be ancient, but one thing is clear most do not or it would have showed a higher score in the test results.

The islanders, the Madeiran Portuguese, it seems more or less, over 96+ Euro. with under 2-1% other on average. Some of them showing the most 2% NA. only one of all I saw was 4% SSA.

[Gaston]

It is noise - less than 1%. People have the wrong idea about Iberians. On average, they actually have more than 50% N. Euro markers. The Straights of Gibraltar are difficult to navigate.

Some people have indeed the wrong idea about Iberians but some people blatantly distort results because either they don't understand population genetics or because the facts are hard to accept for some reason.
Iberians have the most genetic diversity of all Europeans for a reason (that cannot be explained by high effective population size alone). And this reason is significant North African ancestry, as much as 10%+ in Galicia and Murcia and mostly in the 5-10% range for the rest of the peninsula except in Basques and some Catalans where it is around 1% or less. From Botigué et al. 2013 to the recent paper on El Portalón individuals (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/09/02/1509851112), and from the Iberian members who shared their results on "anthro"-fora, there is plenty of evidence that what makes Iberians different from Basque is significant North African ancestry in Iberians and to a lesser extent more steppe ancestry (valid for only some Iberians like Northern ones, possibly linked to celtic languages).

Similar levels of North African ancestry are found in Sicily and Malta (some Maltese might be over 15%), and some parts of deep Southern Italy.

[Damião de Góis]

I decided to put all of the Madeiran Portuguese here side by side for people to see all of their results. They are all fully Madeiran.

Half Madeiran half Irish

Half Madeiran half Irish


These are actually mixed americans. All of them. This crap is never going to end...

[Anthropologique]

My understanding is that Iberian is generally overestimated on 23 & me and French and German underestimated.

[Anthropologique]

Is this meant to be a proof for Iberian moor influence?

Many genetic studies have been done on the, so called, "Moorish" influence in Iberia. The reality is that he vast majority of North African markers have been analyzed as ancient (Mesolithic and Neolithic).* The Muslim occupying force was a small military force and were not settlers. The greater percentage of Iberian muslims were really natives who converted to Islam (moriscos). They were largely expelled - along with NA / Arab muslims - when the Reconquista ended.

*Why do you find high levels of MENA markers in Galicia when the area was virtually untouched by the Muslin invasion? More support for the Morrish influence being extremely old, resulting from population migrations.

[Cristiano viejo]

Some people have indeed the wrong idea about Iberians but some people blatantly distort results because either they don't understand population genetics or because the facts are hard to accept for some reason.
Iberians have the most genetic diversity of all Europeans for a reason (that cannot be explained by high effective population size alone). And this reason is significant North African ancestry, as much as 10%+ in Galicia and Murcia and mostly in the 5-10% range for the rest of the peninsula except in Basques and some Catalans where it is around 1% or less. From Botigué et al. 2013 to the recent paper on El Portalón individuals (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/09/02/1509851112), and from the Iberian members who shared their results on "anthro"-fora, there is plenty of evidence that what makes Iberians different from Basque is significant North African ancestry in Iberians and to a lesser extent more steppe ancestry (valid for only some Iberians like Northern ones, possibly linked to celtic languages).

Similar levels of North African ancestry are found in Sicily and Malta (some Maltese might be over 15%), and some parts of deep Southern Italy.

You should specify that NA ancestry comes from


historical migration events.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/09/02/1509851112

[Anthropologique]

The results seem to go hand to hand with history. Not so surprising, looking at history, something like that should be expected more or less. Everything is over 98+ Euro and under 1% other. The "Limpieza de Sangre", history and DNA results show this by the low score of under 1% results.

As history tells, it goes hand to hand with what the results tells, the Moors were not more than 5% of the Iberian peninsula, they were basically just a small group that converted a big group of Spaniards to Islam. Most of the "Moriscos" being racially native Iberians. Most of them with under 1% 'North African' these less than 1% must be ancient, but one thing is clear most do not or it would have showed a higher score in the test results.

The islanders, the Madeiran Portuguese, it seems more or less, over 96+ Euro. with under 2-1% other on average. Some of them showing the most 2% NA. only one of all I saw was 4% SSA.

Madeira is a special case, to some degree, like the Canaries. It was a plantation colony for a considerable period of time with as much as 15% black, MENA and Gaunche slaves, before incorporation into Portugal itself. The vast majority of Madeirans show only low levels of recent MENA and a minority record higher than average numbers.

Also, Madeiran Americans should not be used to calculate averages.

[Anthropologique]

You should specify that NA ancestry comes from



http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/09/02/1509851112

Yes, thank you.

[Sikeliot]

Madeira is a special case, to some degree, like the Canaries. It was a plantation colony for a considerable period of time with as much as 15% black, MENA and Gaunche slaves, before incorporation into Portugal itself. The vast majority of Madeirans show only low levels of recent MENA and a minority record higher than average numbers.

Also, Madeiran Americans should not be used to calculate averages.



They are like the Portuguese equivalent of white southerners from the Carolinas and Louisiana, who show similar levels of hidden SSA (though due to Madeira's size I'd expect it more often there than in the US).

[Gooding]

Everything under 1% is practically noise.

I quite agree with this assessment. In fact, I'd say that anything that isn't distinctive on one's phenotype is noise. I have 0.2% Sub Saharan African and 0.2% Native American in my 23andMe Speculative results and this is my picture:
http://i.imgur.com/taLIBMQ.jpg

My 98.3% Northern European is obvious. Anything invisible is irrelevant.

[Damião de Góis]

Madeira is a special case, to some degree, like the Canaries. It was a plantation colony for a considerable period of time with as much as 15% black, MENA and Gaunche slaves, before incorporation into Portugal itself. The vast majority of Madeirans show only low levels of recent MENA and a minority record higher than average numbers.

Also, Madeiran Americans should not be used to calculate averages.

You should ignore what non-portuguese users say about Madeira and try to read about its history yourself before saying anything. I'll make a brief summary:

- Madeira archipelago was discovered in 1418 by portuguese explorers.

- Colonization followed. The first settlers were the 3 captains families, and a few families from the portuguese nobility. Non noble settlers were mainly from Minho and Algarve.

- Due to problems in agriculture development, sugar cane was introduced in Madeira in hopes to give the island a new economic boost

- This brought to the island jewish, genoese and portuguese merchants, along with slaves to increase production. These slaves were from The Canaries, Morocco, Mauritania and later other parts of Africa.

- This would last until the 17th century. From that period onwards, wine would be the main source of income for the island since sugar cane production had other major players in other parts in the world by that time, like Brazil.

Source: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regi%C3%A3o_Aut%C3%B3noma_da_Madeira#Hist.C3.B3ria

[Sikeliot]

You should ignore what non-portuguese users say about Madeira and try to read about its history yourself before saying anything. I'll make a brief summary:

- Madeira archipelago was discovered in 1418 by portuguese explorers.

- Colonization followed. The first settlers were the 3 captains families, and a few families from the portuguese nobility. Non noble settlers were mainly from Minho and Algarve.

- Due to problems in agriculture development, sugar cane was introduced in Madeira in hopes to give the island a new economic boost

- This brought to the island jewish, genoese and portugese merchants, along with slaves to increase production. These slaves were from The Canaries, Morocco, Mauritania and later other parts of Africa.

- This would last until the 17th century. From that period onwards, wine would be the main source of income for the island since sugar cane production had other major players in other parts in the world by that time, like Brazil.

Source: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regi%C3%A3o_Aut%C3%B3noma_da_Madeira#Hist.C3.B3ria


The difference is that the slaves eventually made up 10-15% of the population and would become assimilated into it, which is where those minor percentages of SSA come from. Most of the slaves were from Senegambia and eventually Angola, but I've read even a few people from India made it there.

[Anthropologique]

They are like the Portuguese equivalent of white southerners from the Carolinas and Louisiana, who show similar levels of hidden SSA (though due to Madeira's size I'd expect it more often there than in the US).

Louisiana SSA I suspect is higher than Madeira.

[Anthropologique]

The difference is that the slaves eventually made up 10-15% of the population and would become assimilated into it, which is where those minor percentages of SSA come from. Most of the slaves were from Senegambia and eventually Angola, but I've read even a few people from India made it there.

Not sure about Indians but some were used as slaves throughout the old colonial empire.

[Anthropologique]

The difference is that the slaves eventually made up 10-15% of the population and would become assimilated into it, which is where those minor percentages of SSA come from. Most of the slaves were from Senegambia and eventually Angola, but I've read even a few people from India made it there.


Relative island isolation. Madeira was also raided off and on by North African pirates, way back when.

[Sikeliot]

Louisiana SSA I suspect is higher than Madeira.

I suspect some white southerners will have higher SSA than what is found in Madeira but fewer of them will have it since one is an isolated island probably genetically bottlenecked and the other received constant immigration from Europe.

[Cristiano viejo]

ffdfd

I love your cool smile :cool:

[Anthropologique]

You should ignore what non-portuguese users say about Madeira and try to read about its history yourself before saying anything. I'll make a brief summary:

- Madeira archipelago was discovered in 1418 by portuguese explorers.

- Colonization followed. The first settlers were the 3 captains families, and a few families from the portuguese nobility. Non noble settlers were mainly from Minho and Algarve.

- Due to problems in agriculture development, sugar cane was introduced in Madeira in hopes to give the island a new economic boost

- This brought to the island jewish, genoese and portugese merchants, along with slaves to increase production. These slaves were from The Canaries, Morocco, Mauritania and later other parts of Africa.

- This would last until the 17th century. From that period onwards, wine would be the main source of income for the island since sugar cane production had other major players in other parts in the world by that time, like Brazil.

Source: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regi%C3%A3o_Aut%C3%B3noma_da_Madeira#Hist.C3.B3ria

I know the history and I was only pointing out what has been written about Madeira by knowledgeable people. You don't have to be full Portuguese and living in Portugal to comment accurately about things Portuguese. I've been to Madeira in my travels and the majority of its people looked standard Iberian / SW Euro to me. There is a minority segment, however, with obvious non-Euro influences.

The fact remains that Madeira was a plantation colony sustained by NA and SSA slave labor, from places you mentioned.

[Damião de Góis]

I know the history and I was only pointing out what has been written about Madeira by knowledgeable people. You don't have to be full Portuguese and living in Portugal to comment accurately about things Portuguese. I've been to Madeira in my travels and the majority of its people looked standard Iberian / SW Euro to me. There is a minority segment, however, with obvious non-Euro influences.

The fact remains that Madeira was a plantation colony sustained by sale labor from places that you mentioned.

I don't think you're too knowledgable if you write things such as this:


It was a plantation colony for a considerable period of time with as much as 15% black, MENA and Gaunche slaves, before incorporation into Portugal itself.

It was a plantation before being incorporated into Portugal? Nope, go read history...

[Anthropologique]

I don't think you're too knowledgable if you write things such as this:



It was a plantation before being incorporated into Portugal? Nope, go read history...

Well Madeira became part of Portugal politically, eventually. How does that change anything about it originally being a plantation society with a significant slave labor population?

[Damião de Góis]

Well Madeira became part of Portugal politically, eventually. How does that change anything about it originally being a plantation society with a significant slave labor population?

No it wasn't originally a plantation society. Read my post about Madeira history again.

Here is what people from Madeira look like. They have been compared on this forum to Dominicans by people with trollish intentions:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7WcSBiNv3I

[Anthropologique]

As I said if you broke down the "Iberian" component, it'd get filtered into others. It'd probably become filtered into Sardinian, Irish/British and North African.

The Iberian component definitely has more than just Iberian in it. That's why on deeper analysis certain non-Iberian markers are pulled out and these could range, depending on the individual, from NW Europe, Germany, Sardinia to NA.

[Sikeliot]

Here is what people from Madeira look like. They have been compared on this forum to Dominicans by people with trollish intentions:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7WcSBiNv3I


And MY point is, for all you know everyone in that video above may score up to 5% SSA, you just cannot see it in their looks and they would probably not know it was there unless they tested.

[Anthropologique]

No it wasn't originally a plantation society. Read my post about Madeira history again.

Here is what people from Madeira look like. They have been compared on this forum to Dominicans by people with trollish intentions:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7WcSBiNv3I

I know what they look like. I already said that the greater majority is Euro in appearance.

[Damião de Góis]

And MY point is, for all you know everyone in that video above may score up to 5% SSA, you just cannot see it in their looks and they would probably not know it was there unless they tested.

Of course, and you use american mongrels to prove your point. Don't bother to address me again btw.

[Sikeliot]

I know what they look like. I already said that the greater majority is Euro in appearance.

Those who don't look full European likely come from bottlenecked areas and are scoring more than the minor SSA we see in my results. The results I am posting would go with people like those in the video above, since you cannot see such minor amounts.

[Sikeliot]

Of course, and you use american mongrels to prove your point. Don't bother to address me again btw.

I'm going to whether you like it or not because it has to be said. What American mixture could possibly give someone 50%+ Iberian in their scores and everything else exactly on point except minor SSA under 5%? Nothing.

[Anthropologique]

No it wasn't originally a plantation society. Read my post about Madeira history again.

Here is what people from Madeira look like. They have been compared on this forum to Dominicans by people with trollish intentions:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7WcSBiNv3I

It was turned into a plantation colony sometime after discovery. Yes, originally Madeira was only populated by small groups of people from mainland Portugal and, a while later, turned into a plantation style colony - like what you once had in places like Jamaica - that produced primarily sugar cane. That's how history books describe it.

Any person who attempts to compare Madeirans to Dominicans phenotypically is a sick moron.

I will say nothing further about Madeira.

[Sikeliot]

Any person who attempts to compare Madeirans to Dominicans phenotypically is a sick moron.


Correct. Like I said they are the Portuguese equivalent of white southerners from Louisiana.

[Gaston]

Everything under 1% is practically noise.

This statement doesn't make any sense. Practically noise means it's not noise.


In any case, the Iberian component of 23andme is based on Iberian samples from academia AND on Iberian customers from the versions before V4. Unsurprisingly, most Iberians get 97-100% Iberian since they match very well the reference population. It doesn't tell anything about the origins of Iberians.

[Carlito's Way]

No it wasn't originally a plantation society. Read my post about Madeira history again.

Here is what people from Madeira look like. They have been compared on this forum to Dominicans by people with trollish intentions:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7WcSBiNv3I

they look no different from other Portuguese to be honest, pretty European looking to me
very surprising cause on ABF, the pictures posted out there showed them looking very non-white

[Sikeliot]

they look no different from other Portuguese to be honest, pretty European looking to me
very surprising cause on ABF, the pictures posted out there showed them looking very non-white

It depends on which photos are selected. Endovelico will of course not post anyone who looks exotic.

[Damião de Góis]

they look no different from other Portuguese to be honest, pretty European looking to me
very surprising cause on ABF, the pictures posted out there showed them looking very non-white

That's what me and other portuguese posters have been saying for years. The pictures on ABF have not come from portuguese users for sure.

And also, the people posted there are most likely not ethnic Madeirans.

[Carlito's Way]

23andme result of a Spanish mami

H1t: Found among the Basques
Roots:
Por parte de madre: esencialmente norte de la península Ibérica: Galicia, Cantabria, Asturias, Burgos, Granada, Almería y Málaga.
Por parte de padre: Tóledo y Ávila

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovdYmgmdCV8

[Carlito's Way]

the day i am able to find an extremadura, Valencia and Andalusian AncestryDNA, that day I will cry

anyways im thinking of getting native spaniards tested with AncestryDNA because I wanna see their European breakdown regions and it will help us with other Latinos in figuring out who is contributing to the Italy/Greece the most

[alnortedelsur]

And MY point is, for all you know everyone in that video above may score up to 5% SSA, you just cannot see it in their looks and they would probably not know it was there unless they tested.

I myself score between 4-6% SSA (depending on the source: 23Andme, AncestryDNA, gedmatch, etc) and I don't show any SSA influence on my phenotype.

[vivna]

Here are my results, im spanish; half of my family is from Toledo, the other half Andalucia, Extremadura, Pais Vasco and Asturias. I wonder where does my almost 8% Northwestern European comes from, Any Ideas?.

Thank you


European 99.6%

Southern European 87.5%

Iberian 71.2%

Italian 1.9%

Broadly Southern European 14.5%

Northwestern European 7.8%

British & Irish 0.8%

Broadly Northwestern European 7.0%

Ashkenazi Jewish < 0.1%

Broadly European 4.2%

Sub-Saharan African 0.4%

West African 0.3%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African< 0.1%

[Voskos]

Northwestern might be some French ancestry or French Basques.

[Loki]

Welcome to the forum vivna! :)

[Loki]

I wonder where does my almost 8% Northwestern European comes from, Any Ideas?.


I think it must be from the Celts. Remember, the Celts made inroads into Iberia and settled there, and their descendants were called "Celtiberians". They mixed with the native Iberians to make the modern Spanish that we have today. In some parts there were also inputs from Germanic peoples like the Goths.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://s1.postimg.org/9tuv2b7tr/viri.jpg

Adding mine.

[vivna]

I think it must be from the Celts. Remember, the Celts made inroads into Iberia and settled there, and their descendants were called "Celtiberians". They mixed with the native Iberians to make the modern Spanish that we have today. In some parts there were also inputs from Germanic peoples like the Goths.

Oh Thanks Loki, that makes sense :)

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I still have nearly 30% broadly southern\northwestern european. I hope they fix that with the new chip.

[vivna]

I still have nearly 30% broadly southern\northwestern european. I hope they fix that with the new chip.

Yeah indeed, me too nearly 25,7% of "Broadly information"... hope they'll fix that

[Morena]

http://www.iberiandna.com/

Someone at 23andME made a website which has regional averages for Spain and Portugal.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Yeah indeed, me too nearly 25,7% of "Broadly information"... hope they'll fix that

¿De qué región eres?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

http://www.iberiandna.com/

Someone at 23andME made a website which has regional averages for Spain and Portugal.

I was going to post it for Vivna to compare his results but for some reason it is not working properly right now.

[vivna]

¿De qué región eres?

Madrid, tu? :)

[vivna]

I was going to post it for Vivna to compare his results but for some reason it is not working properly right now.

Oh Thanks Viriato, ill try too later

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Madrid, tu? :)


Soy del distrito de Castelo Branco pero resido actualmente en Lisboa.
¿Toda tu familia es originaria de Madrid o viene de otras partes de España?

[vivna]

Soy del distrito de Castelo Branco pero resido actualmente en Lisboa.
¿Toda tu familia es originaria de Madrid o viene de otras partes de España?

Mezcla, por parte de padre Toledo y de Madre, Andalucia, Extremadura, Pais Vasco y Asturias

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Mezcla, por parte de padre Toledo y de Madre, Andalucia, Extremadura, Pais Vasco y Asturias


Estupendo :) Tus resultados son normales para un español. Componente alto ibérico.

[Longbowman]

Here are my results, im spanish; half of my family is from Toledo, the other half Andalucia, Extremadura, Pais Vasco and Asturias. I wonder where does my almost 8% Northwestern European comes from, Any Ideas?.

Thank you


European 99.6%

Southern European 87.5%

Iberian 71.2%

Italian 1.9%

Broadly Southern European 14.5%

Northwestern European 7.8%

British & Irish 0.8%

Broadly Northwestern European 7.0%

Ashkenazi Jewish < 0.1%

Broadly European 4.2%

Sub-Saharan African 0.4%

West African 0.3%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African< 0.1%

Bienvenido al foro! si quisieras, podrias hacer tu propio hilo sobre tus resultados geneticos para que podamos hablar de ellos?

[Cristiano viejo]

Soy del distrito de Castelo Branco pero resido actualmente en Lisboa.
¿Toda tu familia es originaria de Madrid o viene de otras partes de España?
Qué cosas tienes...

[vivna]

Bienvenido al foro! si quisieras, podrias hacer tu propio hilo sobre tus resultados geneticos para que podamos hablar de ellos?

Muchas Gracias!!, claro, ¿cómo o dónde lo abro?

[Longbowman]

Muchas Gracias!!, claro, ¿cómo o dónde lo abro?

hazlo aqui: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?162-23andme

[MINARDOWICZ]

Very cool thread! Someone post results from Murcia. I want to see if they score higher Italian, due to genetic proximity.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Qué cosas tienes...

¿Cuál es el problema? Sólo lo pregunté porque porque muchas personas que viven en Madrid no son originarias de Madrid. Eso es normal, lo mismo sucede en Lisboa (soy un ejemplo de eso yo mismo).

[vivna]

https://s1.postimg.org/9tuv2b7tr/viri.jpg


Adding mine.

Great and interesting results Viriato, quite high Northwestern admixture almost a 20 percent :) and also italian.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Great and interesting results Viriato, quite high Northwestern admixture almost a 20 percent :) and also italian.

Yes, 10% Italian was kinda surprising since it is not that usual to have that much Italian ancestry as an Iberian.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

My northwestern ancestry was on the average for my region though.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Which haplogroups you got?

[Cristiano viejo]

Yes, 10% Italian was kinda surprising since it is not that usual to have that much Italian ancestry as an Iberian.
Estás contaminado.


¿Cuál es el problema? Sólo lo pregunté porque porque muchas personas que viven en Madrid no son originarias de Madrid. Eso es normal, lo mismo sucede en Lisboa (soy un ejemplo de eso yo mismo).

Ningún problema, pero es que prácticamente todo el mundo en Madrid, por no decir el 100% de los madrileños, tiene orígenes de fuera de Madrid.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Estás contaminado.

Jajaja mi amigo, tener ascendencia italiana para mi es un honor. Las guerras entre ibéricos e italianos aquí no me molestan.

[vivna]

Which haplogroups you got?

My Y DNA is J-P58 and my mtDNA is H1 according to 23andme, although do you know any site where i could get further information about my haplogroup, cause according to the site mine is 36,000 years ago and thats a quite a long time ago...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

My Y DNA is J-P58 and my mtDNA is H1 according to 23andme, although do you know any site where i could get further information about my haplogroup, cause according to the site mine is 36,000 years ago and thats a quite a long time ago...

Try uploading your 23andme rawdata to WeGene: https://www.wegene.com/en/

Their ancestry composition results are usually not good for Europeans but it might give you more insight on your haplogroups. It is for free.

[vivna]

Try uploading your 23andme rawdata to WeGene: https://www.wegene.com/en/

Their ancestry composition results are usually not good for Europeans but it might give you more insight on your haplogroups. It is for free.

Thanks!!!!

[Longbowman]

My Y DNA is J-P58

alguna historia de sangre judia en tu familia?

[vivna]

alguna historia de sangre judia en tu familia?

No que tenga conocimiento, aunque toda mi familia paterna es de Toledo, lo que sería muy posible

[Longbowman]

No que tenga conocimiento, aunque toda mi familia paterna es de Toledo, lo que sería muy posible

la familia [marrana] de mi madre reclama raices toledanas, tal vez somos primos

[Profileid]

just noise hehehe

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

just noise hehehe

Welcome to the Iberian club Etain :) I will call you from now on Etain de La Mancha.

[Profileid]

Welcome to the Iberian club Etain :) I will call you from now on Etain de La Mancha.

I wonder how I would get Iberian.I'm not sure what other brits get in that regard

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I wonder how I would get Iberian.I'm not sure what other brits get in that regard

It is actually fairly common for Brits to score minor\insignificant Iberian ancestry though from what I've seen. The other way around it is true as well, we usually score some British & Irish too.

[gold_fenix]

vivna que nombre tienes y te agrego en 23andme

[Petalpusher]

Here are my results, im spanish; half of my family is from Toledo, the other half Andalucia, Extremadura, Pais Vasco and Asturias. I wonder where does my almost 8% Northwestern European comes from, Any Ideas?.

Thank you


European 99.6%

Southern European 87.5%

Iberian 71.2%

Italian 1.9%

Broadly Southern European 14.5%

Northwestern European 7.8%

British & Irish 0.8%

Broadly Northwestern European 7.0%

Ashkenazi Jewish < 0.1%

Broadly European 4.2%

Sub-Saharan African 0.4%

West African 0.3%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African< 0.1%

Likely a part of your ancestry is read like some broadly NW, instead of the 5-10% Brit/Irish, Iberians usually score. Could be the Basque as well.

[vivna]

vivna que nombre tienes y te agrego en 23andme

Jorge Vivar :)

[vivna]

Likely a part of your ancestry is read like some broadly NW, instead of the 5-10% Brit/Irish, Iberians usually score. Could be the Basque as well.

Thank you Petalpusher! :), yeah you are right, although i would love to get more specific information from 23 and me instead of "Broadly", the same thing for my "Broadly 14,5%" southern european

[Petalpusher]

Thank you Petalpusher! :), yeah you are right, although i would love to get more specific information from 23 and me instead of "Broadly", the same thing for my "Broadly 14,5%" southern european

You can always do gedmatch, not that it would be more informative on that northwest %. It's just the usual for Iberians to score this, at least.

[vivna]

Try uploading your 23andme rawdata to WeGene: https://www.wegene.com/en/

Their ancestry composition results are usually not good for Europeans but it might give you more insight on your haplogroups. It is for free.

I've uploaded my raw data where you said and these were the results (in fact ancestry composition looks a bit awkward)

Anyway, my results according to Wegene:

European 94.96% YDNA: J1a2b Mtdna:H1j1b

Spanish63.92%
Balkan27.24%
Finnish/Russian3.42%
Sardinian0.36%

Middle Eastern 4.94%
Egyptian4.94%
Iranian0.00%
Saudi

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

It seems you are J1. The oldest identified J1 sample to date comes from Satsurblia cave (c. 13200 BCE) in Georgia, placing the origins of haplogroup J1 in all likelihood in the region around the Caucasus, Zagros, Taurus and eastern Anatolia during the Upper Paleolithic.

[gold_fenix]

Joer soy incapaz de encontrar gente como antes en 23andme

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Joer soy incapaz de encontrar gente como antes en 23andme

Go to share and compare field and introduce Vivna's e-mail (you will have to ask him his e-mail though). I would advice you people to not be sharing your personal information publicly in here.

[Ibericus]

Thank you Petalpusher! :), yeah you are right, although i would love to get more specific information from 23 and me instead of "Broadly", the same thing for my "Broadly 14,5%" southern european
Deberias bajarte la raw-data y luego subirla a Gedmatch.com allí los análisis son mucho más precisos que 23andme y es gratis

[vivna]

Joer soy incapaz de encontrar gente como antes en 23andme

Ya te pasé mi correo en un privado, a ver si hay suerte :)

[MINARDOWICZ]

Yes, 10% Italian was kinda surprising since it is not that usual to have that much Italian ancestry as an Iberian.

I think the Italian and N European together, is a sign of the genetic gradient of France, Spain, and Italy. You are shifted towards France.

[MINARDOWICZ]

I've uploaded my raw data where you said and these were the results (in fact ancestry composition looks a bit awkward)

Anyway, my results according to Wegene:

European 94.96% YDNA: J1a2b Mtdna:H1j1b

Spanish63.92%
Balkan27.24%
Finnish/Russian3.42%
Sardinian0.36%

Middle Eastern 4.94%
Egyptian4.94%
Iranian0.00%
Saudi

Wegene gave you weird results, but not as weird as mine...


92.16%European
34.00%Hungarian
27.76%Spanish
12.22%French
9.65%Balkan
4.55%Ashkenazi
2.09%Sardinian
1.85%English
0.03%Others

South Asian

4.65%South Asian (Sindhi)

3.19%Others

Others is MENA and C Asian.

[vivna]

Deberias bajarte la raw-data y luego subirla a Gedmatch.com allí los análisis son mucho más precisos que 23andme y es gratis

Gracias Ibericus, ¿Qué test de Ged Match me recomendarías?, veo que hay varios: Eurogenes, Dodecav, MDLP....

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I think the Italian and N European together, is a sign of the genetic gradient of France, Spain, and Italy. You are shifted towards France.

Yes, I cluster with both on most calculators but I am more shifted towards North Italy after Iberia.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I think the Italian and N European together, is a sign of the genetic gradient of France, Spain, and Italy. You are shifted towards France.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 3.727331
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.650326
3 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.304789
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 5.952412
5 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.040771
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.421705
7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.713993
8 North_Italian @ 8.013658
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.027206
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.327158
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.656327
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 10.443177
13 Southwest_French @ 10.991272
14 French @ 12.829893
15 Tuscan @ 15.028735
16 South_Dutch @ 18.100151
17 Serbian @ 19.494930
18 West_German @ 20.498423
19 Romanian @ 20.948082
20 Austrian @ 21.518921

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Portuguese @ 3.727331


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% Tuscan @ 3.542866


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese @ 3.180573
2 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.301125
3 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.324814
4 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.446154
5 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.462733
6 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.463382
7 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.507597
8 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.509336
9 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.520799
10 Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cantabria + Tuscan @ 3.542866
11 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.550134
12 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.568284
13 Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.572852
14 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.574757
15 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.588602
16 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.594914
17 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.608324
18 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.624690
19 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.636085
20 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.641564

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Gracias Ibericus, ¿Qué test de Ged Match me recomendarías?, veo que hay varios: Eurogenes, Dodecav, MDLP....

Start by running a few calculators of Eurogenes.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 3.727331
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.650326
3 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.304789
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 5.952412
5 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.040771
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.421705
7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.713993
8 North_Italian @ 8.013658
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.027206
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.327158
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.656327
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 10.443177
13 Southwest_French @ 10.991272
14 French @ 12.829893
15 Tuscan @ 15.028735
16 South_Dutch @ 18.100151
17 Serbian @ 19.494930
18 West_German @ 20.498423
19 Romanian @ 20.948082
20 Austrian @ 21.518921

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Portuguese @ 3.727331


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% Tuscan @ 3.542866


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese @ 3.180573
2 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.301125
3 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.324814
4 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.446154
5 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.462733
6 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.463382
7 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.507597
8 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.509336
9 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.520799
10 Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cantabria + Tuscan @ 3.542866
11 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.550134
12 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.568284
13 Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.572852
14 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.574757
15 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.588602
16 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.594914
17 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.608324
18 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.624690
19 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.636085
20 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.641564

You are just southwest of me. I have an eastern and northern pull slightly stronger (I am 1/16 East European, 1/2 other Northern European incuding Swedish and German). Very cool. I am not that far from Iberians, genetically. I cluster with Friuli North Italians, because of my Eastern European.

[vivna]

Start by running a few calculators of Eurogenes.

Here my results according to Eurogenes K13, i guess it would be similar to any spaniard :) I like gedmatch it gives a lot more information, i find it quite useful.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 34.69
2 West_Med 28.37
3 East_Med 16.59
4 Baltic 11.28
5 West_Asian 2.97
6 Red_Sea 2.38
7 Northeast_African 1.41


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.607879
2 Portuguese @ 5.832044
3 Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.109652
4 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.542662
5 North_Italian @ 6.647990
6 Spanish_Murcia @ 6.710433
7 Spanish_Galicia @ 7.113054
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 7.721634
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.976239
10 Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.158424
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 9.743039
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 10.969003
13 Southwest_French @ 11.670019
14 Tuscan @ 13.550844
15 French @ 15.083644
16 West_Sicilian @ 21.090219
17 West_German @ 21.587702
18 South_Dutch @ 21.849731
19 Romanian @ 21.999777
20 Greek_Thessaly @ 22.179045

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +50% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.139575


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_French +25% Southwest_French +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.591880

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Have you done Eurogenes K15 as welll? Choose Oracle-4.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Mis resultados de Eurogenes K13 son similares a los tuyos.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.75
2 West_Med 25.64
3 East_Med 14.09
4 Baltic 11.57
5 West_Asian 4.55
6 Red_Sea 2.76
7 Northeast_African 2.50


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 3.215370
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.936081
3 Spanish_Galicia @ 4.881670
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.046734
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.259797
6 Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.653936
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.688403
8 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.000964
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.372850
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.119514
11 North_Italian @ 8.310184
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.900537
13 Southwest_French @ 10.285468
14 French @ 11.368635
15 Tuscan @ 15.305655
16 West_German @ 17.953896
17 South_Dutch @ 18.148836
18 Romanian @ 21.482246
19 Serbian @ 21.658739
20 Austrian @ 22.543196

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.901601

[vivna]

Mis resultados de Eurogenes K13 son similares a los tuyos.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.75
2 West_Med 25.64
3 East_Med 14.09
4 Baltic 11.57
5 West_Asian 4.55
6 Red_Sea 2.76
7 Northeast_African 2.50


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 3.215370
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.936081
3 Spanish_Galicia @ 4.881670
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.046734
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.259797
6 Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.653936
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.688403
8 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.000964
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.372850
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.119514
11 North_Italian @ 8.310184
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.900537
13 Southwest_French @ 10.285468
14 French @ 11.368635
15 Tuscan @ 15.305655
16 West_German @ 17.953896
17 South_Dutch @ 18.148836
18 Romanian @ 21.482246
19 Serbian @ 21.658739
20 Austrian @ 22.543196

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.901601

Sí de hecho muy muy parecidos jajaja

[vivna]

Have you done Eurogenes K15 as welll? Choose Oracle-4.

Here Eurogenes k15, with Oracle 4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 31.49
2 West_Med 21.66
3 East_Med 14.83
4 North_Sea 11.63
5 Baltic 6.83
6 Eastern_Euro 5.52
7 Red_Sea 2.67
8 West_Asian 2.42
9 Northeast_African 1.44


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.507310
2 Spanish_Valencia @ 7.593336
3 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 9.108563
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 9.592994
5 Spanish_Aragon @ 10.151337
6 Spanish_Extremadura @ 10.328300
7 North_Italian @ 11.008951
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 11.137277
9 Southwest_French @ 11.632013
10 Spanish_Cataluna @ 11.724068
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 12.072547
12 Portuguese @ 12.275578
13 Spanish_Galicia @ 14.835445
14 Tuscan @ 15.720756
15 French_Basque @ 19.964657
16 West_Sicilian @ 20.469288
17 French @ 20.486118
18 Greek @ 22.203329
19 Bulgarian @ 22.525871
20 Italian_Abruzzo @ 22.680738

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Basque +50% West_Sicilian @ 5.044471


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Basque +25% Greek +25% West_Sicilian @ 4.687199


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.502778
2 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.523883
3 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.564276
4 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.599850
5 French_Basque + French_Basque + Greek + West_Sicilian @ 4.687199
6 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.720689
7 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.741263
8 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.759644
9 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Southwest_French @ 4.790311
10 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.875587
11 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.894887
12 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + French_Basque + Serbian @ 4.897386
13 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.923297
14 French_Basque + Sephardic_Jewish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.938210
15 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.952503
16 French_Basque + Sephardic_Jewish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.960447
17 French_Basque + French_Basque + Greek + Tunisian @ 5.004022
18 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.011019
19 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + French_Basque + Greek @ 5.013166
20 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia @ 5.014821

[vivna]

I see quite a lot French Basque in the Oracle 4, may have something to do with my maternal Basque ancestry, or not at all?, also Nothafrican jewish

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I see quite a lot French Basque in the Oracle 4, may have something to do with my maternal Basque ancestry, or not at all?, also Nothafrican jewish

You got a really high component of Iberian on 23andme which might be from your Basque side indeed. With that said, the 4 populations approximation just combines different samples to give you an approximation but it doesn't necessarily mean that you have such ancestry.

Try out Eurogenes K36 and we will find out your Basque composition.

[vivna]

You got a really high component of Iberian on 23andme which might be from your Basque side indeed. With that said, the 4 populations approximation just combines different samples to give you an approximation but it doesn't necessarily mean that you have such ancestry.

Try out Eurogenes K36 and we will find out your Basque composition.

Thanks again Viriato for helping with all this new information for me:) Here my Eurogenes k36, infact highest percentages are iberian and Basque. But i see also Near eastern almost 8 per cent, does it make any sense, while 23andme didnt detected any middle eastern admixture at all?

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 0.87
Basque 12.56
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.51
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 3.37
East_Med 4.86
Eastern_Euro 3.24
Fennoscandian 2.98
French 6.08
Iberian 29.13
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 10.61
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 7.93
North_African 2.70
North_Atlantic 4.35
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 3.32
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.14
Omotic 0.23
Pygmy 0.08

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

With 12.56% Basque + 30% Iberian on K36 you're probably the most Basque member I've seen here on TA if I am not wrong. I think it is pretty save to assume that you have Basque ancestry. Your Near Eastern is most likely from a Sephardic ancestor, perhaps you really did have a Jewish relative somewhere in time. You did not score East African\West African so your SSA score on 23andme is probably noise. You seem to be virtually 100% Caucasoid.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I think you forgot to post some components like West Med, I doubt you don't score any of it.

[vivna]

With 12.56% Basque + 30% Iberian on K36 you're probably the most Basque member I've seen here on TA if I am not wrong. I think it is pretty save to assume that you have Basque ancestry. Your Near Eastern is most likely from a Sephardic ancestor, perhaps you really did have a Jewish relative somewhere in time. You did not score East African\West African so your SSA score on 23andme is probably noise. You seem to be virtually 100% Caucasoid.
WoW thats so cool thank you very much for everything that helps me a lot yo better understand where i come from :)

[Longbowman]

I doubt he is 8% Sephardic or even close to it.

[Ibericus]

WoW thats so cool thank you very much for everything that helps me a lot yo better understand where i come from :)
vivna puedes mostrar tus resultados del Dodecad K12b ?

[vivna]

I think you forgot to post some components like West Med, I doubt you don't score any of it.

yeah, indeed, i missed to copy the last ones!!

Omotic 0.23
Pygmy 0.08
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 5.04

[vivna]

vivna puedes mostrar tus resultados del Dodecad K12b ?

Sí claro :), Aquí están:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 43.81
2 North_European 23.61
3 Caucasus 16.10
4 Southwest_Asian 6.29
5 Northwest_African 4.41
6 Gedrosia 3.90


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Baleares_1000Genomes @ 6.626320
2 Galicia_1000Genomes @ 6.949395
3 North_Italian_HGDP @ 8.043129
4 Extremadura_1000Genomes @ 8.176902
5 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 8.300203
6 Portuguese_Dodecad @ 8.661988
7 Murcia_1000Genomes @ 9.616246
8 Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes @ 10.230783
9 Spaniards_Behar @ 11.406121
10 Canarias_1000Genomes @ 11.629986
11 Andalucia_1000Genomes @ 11.769746
12 Spanish_Dodecad @ 11.931895
13 Cataluna_1000Genomes @ 11.984304
14 Castilla_La_Mancha_1000Genomes @ 13.523058
15 Cantabria_1000Genomes @ 13.752321
16 Valencia_1000Genomes @ 14.231556
17 TSI30_Metspalu @ 14.758878
18 Aragon_1000Genomes @ 15.095706
19 French_HGDP @ 16.612150
20 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 16.806213

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% N_Italian_Dodecad +50% Portuguese_Dodecad @ 2.569665


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Murcia_1000Genomes +25% Murcia_1000Genomes +25% Romanians_Behar @ 1.651917


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.354135
2 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Galicia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.393693
3 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.496660
4 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Extremadura_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.597364
5 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Galicia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.642451
6 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.649609
7 Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Romanians_Behar @ 1.651917
8 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Portuguese_Dodecad @ 1.692868
9 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.704758
10 Baleares_1000Genomes + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.763373
11 Baleares_1000Genomes + Bulgarian_Dodecad + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.810623
12 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + French_HGDP @ 1.841760
13 Andalucia_1000Genomes + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Galicia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.869725
14 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + French_HGDP + Spanish_Dodecad @ 1.887215
15 Galicia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Romanians_Behar @ 1.898889
16 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + French_Dodecad @ 1.902209
17 Baleares_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Romanians_Behar @ 1.906499
18 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Extremadura_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes + Murcia_1000Genomes @ 1.907904
19 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + French_Dodecad + Spanish_Dodecad @ 1.919875
20 Ashkenazi_Dodecad + Cantabria_1000Genomes + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + French_Dodecad @ 1.961581

[vivna]

I doubt he is 8% Sephardic or even close to it.

Any idea of the meaning of my 7,93% Near eastern at Eurogenes k36?

[Ibericus]

Here Eurogenes k15, with Oracle 4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 31.49
2 West_Med 21.66
3 East_Med 14.83
4 North_Sea 11.63
5 Baltic 6.83
6 Eastern_Euro 5.52
7 Red_Sea 2.67
8 West_Asian 2.42
9 Northeast_African 1.44


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.507310
2 Spanish_Valencia @ 7.593336
3 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 9.108563
4 Spanish_Murcia @ 9.592994
5 Spanish_Aragon @ 10.151337
6 Spanish_Extremadura @ 10.328300
7 North_Italian @ 11.008951
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 11.137277
9 Southwest_French @ 11.632013
10 Spanish_Cataluna @ 11.724068
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 12.072547
12 Portuguese @ 12.275578
13 Spanish_Galicia @ 14.835445
14 Tuscan @ 15.720756
15 French_Basque @ 19.964657
16 West_Sicilian @ 20.469288
17 French @ 20.486118
18 Greek @ 22.203329
19 Bulgarian @ 22.525871
20 Italian_Abruzzo @ 22.680738

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Basque +50% West_Sicilian @ 5.044471


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Basque +25% Greek +25% West_Sicilian @ 4.687199


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.502778
2 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.523883
3 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.564276
4 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.599850
5 French_Basque + French_Basque + Greek + West_Sicilian @ 4.687199
6 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.720689
7 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.741263
8 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.759644
9 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Southwest_French @ 4.790311
10 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.875587
11 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.894887
12 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + French_Basque + Serbian @ 4.897386
13 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.923297
14 French_Basque + Sephardic_Jewish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.938210
15 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.952503
16 French_Basque + Sephardic_Jewish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.960447
17 French_Basque + French_Basque + Greek + Tunisian @ 5.004022
18 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.011019
19 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + French_Basque + Greek @ 5.013166
20 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia @ 5.014821
Edit : Puede mostrar el teste Eurogenes EUTtest ? Gracias, es para ponerte en una mapa genético..

[vivna]

Edit : Puede mostrar el teste Eurogenes EUTtest ? Gracias, es para ponerte en una mapa genético..

Por supuesto, muchas gracias Ibericus por tu ayuda :). He aquí los resultado del EUtest

# Population Percent
1 ATLANTIC 26.78
2 WEST_MED 22.64
3 EAST_MED 17.12
4 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 13.52
5 SOUTH_BALTIC 7.49
6 EAST_EURO 5.39
7 MIDDLE_EASTERN 5.22
8 WEST_AFRICAN 1.06


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 ES @ 7.612559
2 PT @ 8.448138
3 North_Italian @ 10.046824
4 FR @ 14.357957
5 Tuscan @ 15.043344
6 French_Basque @ 21.060717
7 RO @ 21.476593
8 AT @ 21.509905
9 Serbian @ 22.447548
10 Cornish @ 23.566214
11 West_&_Central_German @ 24.234129
12 HU @ 24.666519
13 NL @ 24.845589
14 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 25.391172
15 English @ 25.424448
16 AJ @ 26.409637
17 Orcadian @ 26.894009
18 IE @ 27.072975
19 Scottish @ 27.700417
20 GR @ 28.449697

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% ES +50% North_Italian @ 6.714446


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% ES +25% French_Basque +25% GR @ 5.417702


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 ES + ES + French_Basque + GR @ 5.417702
2 ES + French_Basque + GR + PT @ 5.570623
3 ES + ES + French_Basque + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.791118
4 AJ + ES + ES + French_Basque @ 5.818461
5 French_Basque + GR + PT + PT @ 5.874026
6 ES + French_Basque + PT + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.885161
7 AJ + ES + French_Basque + PT @ 6.025478
8 French_Basque + PT + PT + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.129259
9 AJ + ES + French_Basque + North_Italian @ 6.144611
10 ES + French_Basque + North_Italian + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.162360
11 AT + French_Basque + French_Basque + Samaritan @ 6.312288
12 FR + French_Basque + French_Basque + Samaritan @ 6.315598
13 AJ + French_Basque + PT + PT @ 6.357170
14 Druze + ES + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 6.376817
15 ES + French_Basque + GR + North_Italian @ 6.397699
16 Druze + French_Basque + French_Basque + PT @ 6.424963
17 French_Basque + North_Italian + PT + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.484391
18 Druze + FR + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 6.519203
19 French_Basque + French_Basque + RO + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.525895
20 ES + French_Basque + North_Italian + Tuscan @ 6.548202

[Ibericus]

Por supuesto, muchas gracias Ibericus por tu ayuda :). He aquí los resultado del EUtest

# Population Percent
1 ATLANTIC 26.78
2 WEST_MED 22.64
3 EAST_MED 17.12
4 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 13.52
5 SOUTH_BALTIC 7.49
6 EAST_EURO 5.39
7 MIDDLE_EASTERN 5.22
8 WEST_AFRICAN 1.06


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 ES @ 7.612559
2 PT @ 8.448138
3 North_Italian @ 10.046824
4 FR @ 14.357957
5 Tuscan @ 15.043344
6 French_Basque @ 21.060717
7 RO @ 21.476593
8 AT @ 21.509905
9 Serbian @ 22.447548
10 Cornish @ 23.566214
11 West_&_Central_German @ 24.234129
12 HU @ 24.666519
13 NL @ 24.845589
14 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 25.391172
15 English @ 25.424448
16 AJ @ 26.409637
17 Orcadian @ 26.894009
18 IE @ 27.072975
19 Scottish @ 27.700417
20 GR @ 28.449697

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% ES +50% North_Italian @ 6.714446


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% ES +25% French_Basque +25% GR @ 5.417702


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 ES + ES + French_Basque + GR @ 5.417702
2 ES + French_Basque + GR + PT @ 5.570623
3 ES + ES + French_Basque + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.791118
4 AJ + ES + ES + French_Basque @ 5.818461
5 French_Basque + GR + PT + PT @ 5.874026
6 ES + French_Basque + PT + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.885161
7 AJ + ES + French_Basque + PT @ 6.025478
8 French_Basque + PT + PT + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.129259
9 AJ + ES + French_Basque + North_Italian @ 6.144611
10 ES + French_Basque + North_Italian + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.162360
11 AT + French_Basque + French_Basque + Samaritan @ 6.312288
12 FR + French_Basque + French_Basque + Samaritan @ 6.315598
13 AJ + French_Basque + PT + PT @ 6.357170
14 Druze + ES + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 6.376817
15 ES + French_Basque + GR + North_Italian @ 6.397699
16 Druze + French_Basque + French_Basque + PT @ 6.424963
17 French_Basque + North_Italian + PT + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.484391
18 Druze + FR + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 6.519203
19 French_Basque + French_Basque + RO + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.525895
20 ES + French_Basque + North_Italian + Tuscan @ 6.548202
Aqui estas en el mapa genetico, te desvias algo de la media española, seguramente debido a tu alto East-Med :

https://image.ibb.co/i2KsxF/vivna.png

[vivna]

Aqui estas en el mapa genetico, te desvias algo de la media española, seguramente debido a tu alto East-Med :

https://image.ibb.co/i2KsxF/vivna.png

Muchas gracias Ibericus por el esfuerzo! es muy muy interesante, East Med, ¿hace referencia a "Mediterraneo Oriental?

[Longbowman]

Any idea of the meaning of my 7,93% Near eastern at Eurogenes k36?

I would have to know what the population averages are for various peoples, but, K36 can give odd results, and 7.93% is 75% of the score a full Sephardi or Ashkenazi would get.

[vivna]

I would have to know what the population averages are for various peoples, but, K36 can give odd results, and 7.93% is 75% of the score a full Sephardi or Ashkenazi would get.

Yes, its odd,cause im not fully Sephardi that for sure jaja. Which one would be the most reliable test at Gedmatch in your opinion, for iberians?.

[TEUTORIGOS]

Yes, its odd,cause im not fully Sephardi that for sure jaja. Which one would be the most reliable test at Gedmatch in your opinion, for iberians?.

I know you did not ask me but probably one of the Dodecad calculators. I am not promising it is going to be perfect, as this is still and inexact science, but Dodecad seems better for southern Europeans than most or all the other calculators. This probably because Dienekes is Greek and biased towards Southern Europeans. He is kind of like med-centric or whanot. However, in reality all these calculators are flawed in some kind of way and depending on your ancestry it is idiosyncratic in which one will be best for you.

[Longbowman]

Yes, its odd,cause im not fully Sephardi that for sure jaja. Which one would be the most reliable test at Gedmatch in your opinion, for iberians?.

The newer ones are better IMO. Gedrosia K10 etc.

[vivna]

The newer ones are better IMO. Gedrosia K10 etc.
Thanks Longbowman, ill try it, anyway do you know if there is a way or how i could trace any kind of Sephardic anthestry through my dna, my mothers family would be interested to know that.

[Ibericus]

Thanks Longbowman, ill try it, anyway do you know if there is a way or how i could trace any kind of Sephardic anthestry through my dna, my mothers family would be interested to know that.
I don't think you have sephardic at all, it's very rare actually, and if you had, it would be very diluded, not noticeable in any way.

[Potentia]

Here Eurogenes k15, with Oracle 4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 31.49
2 West_Med 21.66
3 East_Med 14.83
4 North_Sea 11.63
5 Baltic 6.83
6 Eastern_Euro 5.52
7 Red_Sea 2.67
8 West_Asian 2.42
9 Northeast_African 1.44

Whoa!

That is a seriously high East Med Score. It's even more than your North Sea!

[Longbowman]

Thanks Longbowman, ill try it, anyway do you know if there is a way or how i could trace any kind of Sephardic anthestry through my dna, my mothers family would be interested to know that.

como dice Ibericus seria muy dificil con cantidades pequenas; si tuvieras un haplogrupo judio seria mas demostrable, y creo tu ydna pueda ser judio.

genealogia seria mas util para ti en este respeto.

[vivna]

como dice Ibericus seria muy dificil con cantidades pequenas; si tuvieras un haplogrupo judio seria mas demostrable, y creo tu ydna pueda ser judio.

genealogia seria mas util para ti en este respeto.

Gracias de nuevo Longbowman :), sí es cierto, me pondré a investigar sobre la historia de mi familia en esa rama creo que puede ser más práctico en ese aspecto

[vivna]

Only certain clades of P58 are Jewish whilst others are Arab, Phoenician, Assyrian etc. Only the ZS223 clade is the "Cohen" clade the rest aren't. I reckon he is part of the Phoenician clades since they are the most common P58 clades in Iberia

Oh thanks for the info Kelmendasi very interesting! i didnt know Phoenician clades were the most common in Iberia for my haplogroup :)

[gold_fenix]

Por cierto vivna yo soy medio andaluz medio manchego( mi bisabuela era de un pueblo de Toledo) pero lo que es genes de origen judio no se muestra, de hehco a nivel genetico es como si fuera algo asi como medio vasco, cuando habia un cluster en 23andme las personas con las que estaba tocando su padre o madre eran vascos

[vivna]

It comes from the neolithic farmers . But of course, if you use studies from 1997 that was impossible to know back then.

wow also very interesting Ibericus :), in fact it make sense. I uploaded my raw data also in FTDNA( as a begginer in this subject i still dont how reliable it is FTDNA) but anyway, i went to "my ancient origins" and it said i was 59% neolithic farmer 33% Hunter Gatherer and 8% metal Age invader. Maybe those are typical for Suthern Europeans or Iberians i dont know.

[vivna]

Por cierto vivna yo soy medio andaluz medio manchego( mi bisabuela era de un pueblo de Toledo) pero lo que es genes de origen judio no se muestra, de hehco a nivel genetico es como si fuera algo asi como medio vasco, cuando habia un cluster en 23andme las personas con las que estaba tocando su padre o madre eran vascos

Si es verdad en la mayor parte de los resultados que estoy obteniendo aparece un gran porcentaje vasco. De hecho es interesante, porque a pesar que toda mi familia paterna es de Toledo de la zona de la Sagra y si es cierto que oí que particularmente el pueblo de la familia de mi padre fue repoblado durante siglos por gente del norte de España, entre otros de Vascones. Ahora viendo mi ADN puede que tenga cierto sentido, a parte de mi bisabuela vasca por marte de madre, que evidentemente algo aporta jeje :)

[vivna]

Por cierto Longobarda, no entiendo que sentido tiene que le des una valoración negativa a mi primer post en el que solamente público mis resultados de 23andme. Sin más solo intento buscar información. Si tuviste una mala experiencia en España o con españoles lo lamento. Pero aquí hay gente que solamente buscamos aprender :)

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

wow also very interesting Ibericus :), in fact it make sense. I uploaded my raw data also in FTDNA( as a begginer in this subject i still dont how reliable it is FTDNA) but anyway, i went to "my ancient origins" and it said i was 59% neolithic farmer 33% Hunter Gatherer and 8% metal Age invader. Maybe those are typical for Suthern Europeans or Iberians i dont know.

Sim é normal, eu no FTDNA sou 58% Farmer se não estou em erro.

[vivna]

Sim é normal, eu no FTDNA sou 58% Farmer se não estou em erro.

Obrigado Viriato!! :) wow im surprised we have quite similar results, arent we relatives? jeje

[vivna]

Por cierto vivna yo soy medio andaluz medio manchego( mi bisabuela era de un pueblo de Toledo) pero lo que es genes de origen judio no se muestra, de hehco a nivel genetico es como si fuera algo asi como medio vasco, cuando habia un cluster en 23andme las personas con las que estaba tocando su padre o madre eran vascos

Por cierto gold-fenix, de que pueblo de Toledo era tu bisabuela, te acuerdas? :)

[vivna]

Aqui estas en el mapa genetico, te desvias algo de la media española, seguramente debido a tu alto East-Med :

https://image.ibb.co/i2KsxF/vivna.png

De nuevo Ibericus gracias por este mapa :), se me olvidó preguntarte, el alto East-Med, de que podrían ser fruto: herencia neolítica, fenicios...?

[Ibericus]

De nuevo Ibericus gracias por este mapa :), se me olvidó preguntarte, el alto East-Med, de que podrían ser fruto: herencia neolítica, fenicios...?
Yo diria que el 90% es de origen neolítico, lo sabemos ya que tenemos muchas muestras del neolítico y muestran un alto nivel de East-Med, luego algunos otros pueblos pudieron añadir su granito de arena (fenicios, romanos, etc.) pero no creo que sea demasiado.

[gold_fenix]

Por cierto gold-fenix, de que pueblo de Toledo era tu bisabuela, te acuerdas? :)

Ahora mismo no creia que era Almodovar del campo que antes se llamaba Almodovares del campo peroe se de Ciudad Real pero de ese era mi bisabuelo

Ya lo encontre, Aldeanueva de San bartolome

[Damião de Góis]

That's it, i'm gonna clean this thread.

Thread reopened, off-topic and trolling deleted.

[Potentia]

My Father’s Eurogenes K15, if he were to be full European.

North Sea: 24.98
Atlantic: 21.81
East Med: 21.34
West Med: 21.04
Red Sea: 6.26
Baltic: 4.28
Eastern Euro: 0.26

Does anyone have any idea why his East Med would be higher than his West Med? Or, why it is even that high at all. Could it be possible Sephardic Ancestry, of maybe Italian?

[Kriptc06]

My Father’s Eurogenes K15, if he were to be full European.

North Sea: 24.98
Atlantic: 21.81
East Med: 21.34
West Med: 21.04
Red Sea: 6.26
Baltic: 4.28
Eastern Euro: 0.26

Does anyone have any idea why his East Med would be higher than his West Med? Or, why it is even that high at all. Could it be possible Sephardic Ancestry, of maybe Italian?

its pretty much the same, 0.30 difference, noisy, if you upload a different raw file from another company it may even be the opposite. W>E

[Potentia]

its pretty much the same, 0.30 difference, noisy, if you upload a different raw file from another company it may even be the opposite. W>E

it definitely could go either way.

However, my Father is of Mexican ancestry, which would mean that his European ancestry is pretty much Spanish. However, when looking at his scores vs. an average Spaniards' scores, they look far different. For example, my Father's East Med is almost double that of a typical Spaniard.

I would be interested in hearing what Longbowman has to say, as even in his oracle, he sometimes gets Jewish.

[Nico Nobrix]

The results seem to go hand to hand with history. Not so surprising, looking at history, something like that should be expected more or less. Everything is over 98+ Euro and under 1% other. The "Limpieza de Sangre", history and DNA results show this by the low score of under 1% results.

As history tells, it goes hand to hand with what the results tells, the Moors were not more than 5% of the Iberian peninsula, they were basically just a small group that converted a big group of Spaniards to Islam. Most of the "Moriscos" being racially native Iberians. Most of them with under 1% 'North African' these less than 1% must be ancient, but one thing is clear most do not or it would have showed a higher score in the test results.

The islanders, the Madeiran Portuguese, it seems more or less, over 96+ Euro. with under 2-1% other on average. Some of them showing the most 2% NA. only one of all I saw was 4% SSA.


Im full Madeiran Portuguese with 1.3% subsaharan. Out of which most in East African. Not sure if that makes it any more unique or Ancient from Arab Egyptions. Still 98+ percent European is pretty good. Suprised to see 23 and me absorbed 7% North African ancestry. 2-3% North African is pre Neolithic North African and that any more is Medieval North African. Because 2-9% is average for a native Iberian, looks like it gets absorbed into iberian. A ton of West European and north European is absorbed into iberian as well. You dont know the true results until you use something like a Dodecade calculator. Judging from dodecade, 23 and me hides about 50% North, West European, and East European, 20% Southern European, 5-15% Caucus and middle east, 7% North African, and 1% sub saharan. What ever exceeds those rough avaerages becomes flagged in 23 and me results. Hence, a lot of these results have 1% extra sub saharan, 7% extra North African,and ALOT extra North, West, and East European. Would like to see results from Northern Portuguese and North Spaniards

[alnortedelsur]

I won't post mine because I'm not full Spanish. But here there are my Spanish mom's results:

https://i.imgur.com/KbrvYJk.png

[Nico Nobrix]

Those who don't look full European likely come from bottlenecked areas and are scoring more than the minor SSA we see in my results. The results I am posting would go with people like those in the video above, since you cannot see such minor amounts.


I am full Madeira, 23 and me showed 98.5% European and 1.3% sub saharan and I look like Christiano Ronaldo after he gets a sun tan😂. What is your definition of "looking European". FWI, for Iberians, you can look at one family and see a blond, a burnette, dark haired, tan skin and pale skin. Case in point, my family! Phenotype does not determine genotype. My favorite thing to do is show my German friends my Dodecade results and watch them in shock to see very similar pie charts of autosomal DNA break down comparisons. Typically i fall 10% short of North European autosomal DNA from German ancestry. Still funny to watch😂

[alnortedelsur]

It seems you are J1. The oldest identified J1 sample to date comes from Satsurblia cave (c. 13200 BCE) in Georgia, placing the origins of haplogroup J1 in all likelihood in the region around the Caucasus, Zagros, Taurus and eastern Anatolia during the Upper Paleolithic.

Fuck the half Dominican user who keeps saying that my Halogroup is Arab/Berber.

[Sp_loa]

. FWI, for Iberians, you can look at one family and see a blond, a burnette, dark haired, tan skin and pale skin. Case in point, my family! Phenotype does not determine genotype. My favorite thing to do is show my German friends my Dodecade results and watch them in shock to see very similar pie charts of autosomal DNA break down comparisons. Typically i fall 10% short of North European autosomal DNA from German ancestry. Still funny to watch😂

It's not that surprising. Western Europeans have a lot of common origins. Regardless of that all Humans (Homo Sapiens) are 99.7% identical as most of our protein coding DNA sequences are identical (Seriously we are practically the same), and non-coding DNA (so called "Junk DNA" is present in all creatures including Bacterias, and in different humans it's almost identical).

Snps (practically mutations) associated with ancestry from specific regions aren't always mutations that has anything to do with physical appearance.
Most traits that are related to physical appearance such as light skin, light eyes, or light hair are mostly a result of a very few mutaions (Correct me if I'm wrong but light skin is a result of a single nucleotide mutation) , and most aren't specific enough to use as indicator of Ancestry as they are very common world-wide. Some traits are just more common in one place or another as a result of natural selection (like light/dark skin) or Sexual selection (like Blue eyes).

To conclude - the Snps that are used these days to "find" ancestry are usually not related (directly) to physical traits, so even the "Woggiest" European and the "Whitest" European can have a very similar genetic results. Ofcourse people from similar areas would be closer to each-other due to probably more common ancestors (and thus having similar random mutations that are many times don't affect the body/cells function in any way), and they would be more likely to have similar traits during to the process of traits selection in the specific area.

And here I'm being stereotypical nerdy Jewish (again) writing lectures about Biology (:
If there are any mistakes it's because I'm having a little hard time to express my self in English.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Fuck the half Dominican user who keeps saying that my Halogroup is Arab/Berber.You are berber. Embrace your berber lebanese roots dammit 🤬🤬🤬


https://youtu.be/SRDYwqC0rS4

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Lebanese cypriots that mixed with berbers [emoji41]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180720/426a57e15704ee3a67585965a9b8dff5.jpg

[Profileid]

Fuck the half Dominican user who keeps saying that my Halogroup is Arab/Berber.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/HG_J1_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG

[Heather Duval]

You guys need a job.
https://i.imgur.com/dRtFAeD.gif

[alnortedelsur]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/HG_J1_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG

It originated in Northern Middle east (Anatolia, Caucasus, Zagros mountains, etc) not in Arabia or Northern Africa, even if nowadays is more frequent in there.

My paternal Halogroup comes from some remote ancestor coming from those Middle eastern Northern regions, not from Arabia, North Eastern Africa, or Northern Africa.

And in any case it only counts for a very small percentage of my whole ancestry.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

It originated in Northern Middle east (Anatolia, Caucasus, Zagros mountains, etc) not in Arabia or Northern Africa, even if nowadays is more frequent in there.

My paternal Halogroup comes from some remote ancestor coming from those Middle eastern Northern regions, not from Arabia, North Eastern Africa, or Northern Africa.

And in any case it only counts for a very small percentage of my whole ancestry.You are j1a2b i think. Which is present in lebanon. And in creten samples but those cretan samples are said come from north africa or levant area. Carthagenians spread out through the medditeranean and also in greece by 8th century bc the latest. Greek letters ate deriviate of phonecians which are lebanese people

[alnortedelsur]

You are j1a2b i think. Which is present in lebanon. And in creten samples but those cretan samples are said come from north africa or levant area. Carthagenians spread out through the medditeranean and also in greece by 8th century bc the latest. Greek letters ate deriviate of phonecians which are lebanese people

Lebanon is still part of Northern Middle east. It's right next door from Turkey and Syria (which borders Assyria, in Northern Iraq). And Carthaginians mostly descended from Phoenicians. Then, you're giving me the reason. Thanks for that.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Lebanon is still part of Northern Middle east. It's right next door from Turkey and Syria (which borders Assyria, in Northern Iraq). And Carthaginians mostly descended from Phoenicians. Then, you're giving me the reason. Thanks for that.Lebanese are levantine. Middle easterners. Canaanites and phonecians. In carthagenian religion their god bal os the equivelant of of kronus in greek mythology

[albie]

Hi,

I am new here, and I wanted to add my own results:

https://you.23andme.com/reports/ancestry_composition_hd/

I am from Mallorca, Spain, and, like most people here, my ancestry can be traced back to Catalonia in North Eastern Spain. I was surprised to get a 20% French/German, since I have no ancestor in those countries that I know about. Could it be that, since Spain and France are neighboring countries, they overlap to some extent?
The 5% British/Irish was even more shocking.
No "exotic" results whatsoever, except a 0.1% East Asian/Native American, which I assume is noise.

[Sp_loa]

Hi,

I am new here, and I wanted to add my own results:

https://you.23andme.com/reports/ancestry_composition_hd/

I am from Mallorca, Spain, and, like most people here, my ancestry can be traced back to Catalonia in North Eastern Spain. I was surprised to get a 20% French/German, since I have no ancestor in those countries that I know about. Could it be that, since Spain and France are neighboring countries, they overlap to some extent?
The 5% British/Irish was even more shocking.
No "exotic" results whatsoever, except a 0.1% East Asian/Native American, which I assume is noise.

Link doesn’t work. Can you post your regional reports as well?

[albie]

Link doesn’t work. Can you post your regional reports as well?

https://you.23andme.com/published/reports/ddd1aa54c5b74d44/?share_id=146bf3e5f6e14ebc

Let's see if it worked now; I used the option "share" from the website. There are no regional reports, only Spain. So far as I know, all my ancestry from Mallorca, with Catalan surnames.

[Sp_loa]

https://you.23andme.com/published/reports/ddd1aa54c5b74d44/?share_id=146bf3e5f6e14ebc

Let's see if it worked now; I used the option "share" from the website. There are no regional reports, only Spain. So far as I know, all my ancestry from Mallorca, with Catalan surnames.

When you click view report for Spain and france nothing happens? You should get a map with regions.
Anyway extremely high french for Iberian on 23andme. Itbwould be more interesting if it gave you the spesific regions (again click view report).
Beautiful results.

[albie]

When you click view report for Spain and france nothing happens? You should get a map with regions.
Anyway extremely high french for Iberian on 23andme. Itbwould be more interesting if it gave you the spesific regions (again click view report).
Beautiful results.

Thank you for pointing that out, I just got my results last week and I am still discovering the features of this website.

You were right, when I click Spain it is broken down to the different present day administrative units of the country, the "Comunidades Autónomas". Non-surprisingly, the strongest affiliation is with Catalonia. It looks I have also connections to Aragon, Castile-León, Galicia and the Basque Country.

And I have just found out that my French connection is to the Grand Est area, which is the region bordering Germany, Belgium and Luxemburg. This is truly confusing... I read that Catalans were to some extent mixed with the South and South Western French, but Grand Est is very far away... It's the area of Burgundy, Lorraine, Alsace, etc. There is no further breakdown for the British/Irish group, I guess it's too small.... Anyway, I wonder if we can trust such a precise "zoom in". Is it actually possible to tell apart someone from Central Spain from someone from North Eastern Spain?

[Sp_loa]

Thank you for pointing that out, I just got my results last week and I am still discovering the features of this website.

You were right, when I click Spain it is broken down to the different present day administrative units of the country, the "Comunidades Autónomas". Non-surprisingly, the strongest affiliation is with Catalonia. It looks I have also connections to Aragon, Castile-León, Galicia and the Basque Country.

And I have just found out that my French connection is to the Grand Est area, which is the region bordering Germany, Belgium and Luxemburg. This is truly confusing... I read that Catalans were to some extent mixed with the South and South Western French, but Grand Est is very far away... It's the area of Burgundy, Lorraine, Alsace, etc. There is no further breakdown for the British/Irish group, I guess it's too small.... Anyway, I wonder if we can trust such a precise "zoom in". Is it actually possible to tell apart someone from Central Spain from someone from North Eastern Spain?

From what I saw it’s very accurate for Spanish people. I know someone from Galicia and she scored only Galicia.
Your french percentage is very high anyway. I’d recommend you to re-check your family tree. Search for French heritage.

[albie]

From what I saw it’s very accurate for Spanish people. I know someone from Galicia and she scored only Galicia.
Your french percentage is very high anyway. I’d recommend you to re-check your family tree. Search for French heritage.

I can trace up to my great-grandparents. I suppose it is possible that I had a French great-great-grandparent, but it's strange anyway.

[Cristiano viejo]

I can trace up to my great-grandparents. I suppose it is possible that I had a French great-great-grandparent, but it's strange anyway.

Dont search three legs to the cat, it is typical results for any Spaniard.

[Ibericus]

https://you.23andme.com/published/reports/ddd1aa54c5b74d44/?share_id=146bf3e5f6e14ebc

Let's see if it worked now; I used the option "share" from the website. There are no regional reports, only Spain. So far as I know, all my ancestry from Mallorca, with Catalan surnames.
you can download your raw data and upload for free in gedmatch.com, and then post your results.

As for the french results is not literal french, is just overlapping and common genetics with our neighbors

[Autrigón]

I have always asked to myself, how is possible Spaniards usually score so low in Italian? If we take history how is possible score more French-German or even Irish than Italian? I mean, The Roman Empire give us their culture and language, It's well known that sometimes Roman legionaries settled in ancient Hispania. So why?

[Sp_loa]

you can download your raw data and upload for free in gedmatch.com, and then post your results.

As for the french results is not literal french, is just overlapping and common genetics with our neighbors

It shouldn't show "Grand Est" for France if so.
Never saw a Spaniard with 20% France. Either 23andme is wrong big time either she isn't full Iberian.

[albie]

I have always asked to myself, how is possible Spaniards usually score so low in Italian? If we take history how is possible score more French-German or even Irish than Italian? I mean, The Roman Empire give us their culture and language, It's well known that sometimes Roman legionaries settled in ancient Hispania. So why?

I don't know, but I read that during the Middle Ages some people from France, Flanders, and even Germany came to Spain to settle the almost desert lands of New Castile and Extremadura. The Christian Kings needed men to guard the borders with the Moors, and they didn't have enough men. The last such settlement was made in the XVIII century during the reign of Charles III, who settled vast areas of Sierra Morena with southern Germans.

As for the British, ever since England split from Rome and became Protestant, there were Irish people (Ireland is the most ancient English colony) who settled in Spain. Nowadays you can find fully Spanish people with surnames like O'Donovan, O'Donell, etc, like this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldo_O%27Donnell,_1st_Duke_of_Tetuan

[FilhoV]

Definitely some French Ancestry

The French is very high and the Iberian is too low imo

[albie]

Definitely some French Ancestry

The French is very high and the Iberian is too low imo

It is possible, but I would say Catalans score higher in French admixture than the Portuguese :)

[Cristiano viejo]

Definitely some French Ancestry

The French is very high and the Iberian is too low imo

His Iberian ancestry is 3times what his French one...

[Damião de Góis]

I think French & German increased a bit for iberians after this update and catalans and balearics are the iberians who score it the most. Nevertheless, it would be better to check Eurogenes k13 or k15, so you should try gedmatch.

[Sp_loa]

It is possible, but I would say Catalans score higher in French admixture than the Portuguese :)

Another full Baleric 23andme was posted here and there wasn’t such a high French and id didn’t give any region...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Ibericus has a point, Eastern Iberians tend to score higher French/German than their Western counterparts. Among Portugueses it is the opposite, we usually score substantially more Irish/British.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I think French & German increased a bit for iberians after this update and catalans and balearics are the iberians who score it the most. Nevertheless, it would be better to check Eurogenes k13 or k15, so you should try gedmatch.

Interestingly after the update Portugueses are the Iberians who are scoring higher percentages of Iberian ancestry among all Iberians (with perhaps the exception of Basques but I haven't seen 23andMe reports from native Basques after the update yet). Browsing through my and my girlfriend DNA relatives I am astonished by the staggering amount of Portugueses who are scoring 90% Iberian.

[albie]

Interestingly after the update Portugueses are the Iberians who are scoring higher percentages of Iberian ancestry among all Iberians (with perhaps the exception of Basques but I haven't seen 23andMe reports from native Basques after the update yet). Browsing through my and my girlfriend DNA relatives I am astonished by the staggering amount of Portugueses who are scoring 90% Iberian.

I always regarded the Basques as the only "pure" Iberians. Interesting...

[albie]

Interestingly after the update Portugueses are the Iberians who are scoring higher percentages of Iberian ancestry among all Iberians (with perhaps the exception of Basques but I haven't seen 23andMe reports from native Basques after the update yet). Browsing through my and my girlfriend DNA relatives I am astonished by the staggering amount of Portugueses who are scoring 90% Iberian.

I always regarded the Basques as the only "pure" Iberians. Interesting...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I always regarded the Basques as the only "pure" Iberians. Interesting...

I am mentioning 23andMe autosomals though. In Gedmatch runs Basques will still be considerably different from the other Iberian regions. You should try Gedmatch by uploading your raw data.

[Cristiano viejo]

I am mentioning 23andMe autosomals though. In Gedmatch runs Basques will still be considerably different from the other Iberian regions. You should try Gedmatch by uploading your raw data.

Basques are as different of other Iberians regions as any other Iberian region is.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Basques are as different of other Iberians regions as any other Iberian region is.

Other Iberians regions are way closer to one another than Basques. Basques are the outliers of the peninsula.

[Damião de Góis]

Interestingly after the update Portugueses are the Iberians who are scoring higher percentages of Iberian ancestry among all Iberians (with perhaps the exception of Basques but I haven't seen 23andMe reports from native Basques after the update yet). Browsing through my and my girlfriend DNA relatives I am astonished by the staggering amount of Portugueses who are scoring 90% Iberian.

I haven't seen many spanish results after the update. But i would think "iberian" increased for everyone?
My yeah mine increased some 15%.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I haven't seen many spanish results after the update. But i would think "iberian" increased for everyone?
My yeah mine increased some 15%.

And mine increased 21,5% while my Italian decreased to half of what it was.

[FilhoV]

His Iberian ancestry is 3times what his French one...

Yes but Native Iberians score much higher I for one score almost 75% not to mention another 10% Broadly Southern European.

I have a few Gedmatch kits from Mallorca and the islands that score weird oracles like

65% Extremadura and 35% Dutch

I’ll post it later

[Ibericus]

It shouldn't show "Grand Est" for France if so.
Never saw a Spaniard with 20% France. Either 23andme is wrong big time either she isn't full Iberian.

I have seen many spaniards score around 15-20% France, is not that uncommon, anyways my personal opinion I don't like 23andMe, is much more informative the third party tools like Gedmatch

[FilhoV]

Mine stayed the same

https://i.imgur.com/kiYAPfd.jpg

[FilhoV]

I have seen many spaniards score around 15-20% France, is not that uncommon, anyways my personal opinion I don't like 23andMe, is much more informative the third party tools like Gedmatch

Totally agree

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I have seen many spaniards score around 15-20% France, is not that uncommon, anyways my personal opinion I don't like 23andMe, is much more informative the third party tools like Gedmatch

Isn't 23andMe the best autosomal test in the market nonetheless? Seems to be pretty accurate to me. MyHeritage, Ancestry DNA and FTDNA seem to be way more inaccurate for Iberians, though you might argue that some of them still use chips that run more SNPs if your ultimate goal is to only obtain the raw data.

[Sp_loa]

Isn't 23andMe the best autosomal test in the market nonetheless? Seems to be pretty accurate to me. MyHeritage, Ancestry DNA and FTDNA seem to be way more inaccurate for Iberians, though you might argue that some of them still use chips that run more SNPs if your ultimate goal is to only obtain the raw data.

23andme most accurate at the moment

[Ibericus]

This is for example the results of a 100% Catalan person:

https://i.ibb.co/g3rtLNv/catalan.png

[Cristiano viejo]

Other Iberians regions are way closer to one another than Basques. Basques are the outliers of the peninsula.

No, they are not. Maybe for you Portuguese. Not for the rest of Spaniards.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

No, they are not. Maybe for you Portuguese. Not for the rest of Spaniards.

This is common knowledge among the genetic community. Basques are a population isolate, like Sardinians per example. You're clueless about anything genetic related.

[albie]

No, they are not. Maybe for you Portuguese. Not for the rest of Spaniards.

Lol, Basques stand out among Iberians, everybody knows that. Why do you think they have retained their ancestral language and culture while the rest of the country has not? Because they have been almost untouched by any of the invasions that our country suffered (Romans, Goths, Berbers, etc). I wouldn't be surprised if they score 90-100% Iberian on average.

[Cristiano viejo]

Lol, Basques stand out among Iberians, everybody knows that. Why do you think they have retained their ancestral language and culture while the rest of the country has not? Because they have been almost untouched by any of the invasions that our country suffered (Romans, Goths, Berbers, etc). I wouldn't be surprised if they score 90-100% Iberian on average.

Have they retained their ancestral language? really? is that why they speak Castilian daily?

Please, dont show such ignorance... untouched by invasions? Romans founded Pamplona, Visigoths founded Vitoria, Berbers ruled great part of Navarra for centuries...

[albie]

Have they retained their ancestral language? really? is that why they speak Castilian daily?

Please, dont show such ignorance... untouched by invasions? Romans founded Pamplona, Visigoths founded Vitoria, Berbers ruled great part of Navarra for centuries...

I said "almost". Last time I checked there were like 700.000-800.000 people speaking Basque on a daily basis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language

Neither Vitoria nor Pamplona have been Basque.speaking for centuries. Like, MANY centuries. By your logic, Burgos, Rioja, Northern Aragon and Catalonia should also be considered "Basque", since they spoke Basque in ancient times.

[Cristiano viejo]

I said "almost". Last time I checked there were like 700.000-800.000 people speaking Basque on a daily basis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language

Neither Vitoria nor Pamplona have been Basque.speaking for centuries. Like, MANY centuries. By your logic, Burgos, Rioja, Northern Aragon and Catalonia should also be considered "Basque", since they spoke Basque in ancient times.
You are crazy if you think the half of the Basque population speaks Euskera daily :picard1:
Probably not even the 10% understand it, let alone speak it.

[albie]

You are crazy if you think the half of the Basque population speaks Euskera daily :picard1:
Probably not even the 10% understand it, let alone speak it.

My sister studied in Bilbao for a year when she was at the University, and she travelled quite a lot around the area; she definetly doesn't agree with you. Of course in Bilbao most people speak Spanish, but when you leave the city is a completetly different story... De Guipuzkoa ya ni te cuento...
Anyway, you should know that nowadays in Euskadi Basque language is a subject in the curricula, both in primary and secondary school, just like English is. All the younger generation in that area can speak Basque, at least at an intermediate level.

[Cristiano viejo]

My sister studied in Bilbao for a year when she was at the University, and she travelled quite a lot around the area; she definetly doesn't agree with you. Of course in Bilbao most people speak Spanish, but when you leave the city is a completetly different story... De Guipuzkoa ya ni te cuento...
Anyway, you should know that nowadays in Euskadi Basque language is a subject in the curricula, both in primary and secondary school, just like English is. All the younger generation in that area can speak Basque, at least at an intermediate level.

Y de Álava y Pamplona tampoco me cuentes :rolleyes:

The younger generation is forced to learn Basque, true. That does not mean they speak it daily. Castilian is the only one language that Basques speak daily.
Unless you think just saying kaixo and agur at the start and the finish of a conversation means they speak Basque :rolleyes:

And ah! me myself have Basque ancestry and a lot of family there, plus a lot of Basque friends and acquaintances, if you know what I am wanting to mean :rolleyes:

[albie]

Y de Álava y Pamplona tampoco me cuentes :rolleyes:

The younger generation is forced to learn Basque, true. That does not mean they speak it daily. Castilian is the only one language that Basques speak daily.
Unless you think just saying kaixo and agur at the start and the finish of a conversation means they speak Basque :rolleyes:

And ah! me myself have Basque ancestry and a lot of family there, plus a lot of Basque friends and acquaintances, if you know what I am wanting to mean :rolleyes:

Ok, so...

- Those 750.000 native Basque speakers have been just made up by Wikipedia. Basque people and language don't exist, we have been told a lie throughout History for the last 2.000 years or so.
- My sister was abducted and forced to take some drug while in Bilbao, which made her dream about towns and villages where most people were Basque and spoke Basque.

Es que a algunos, hay que darles la razón como a los tontos, aunque no sean necesariamente tontos, son de ideas fijas....

[Cristiano viejo]

Ok, so...

- Those 750.000 native Basque speakers have been just made up by Wikipedia. Basque people and language don't exist, we have been told a lie throughout History for the last 2.000 years or so.
- My sister was abducted and forced to take some drug while in Bilbao, which made her dream about towns and villages where most people were Basque and spoke Basque.

Es que a algunos, hay que darles la razón como a los tontos, aunque no sean necesariamente tontos, son de ideas fijas....

Yourself is saying Bilbao is Castilian-speaker, so I dont get your point claiming other points of Vascongadas are Euskera-speakers just with the testimony of your sister... who lived in Bilbao.

Wikipedia means nothing, are you serious??

You live in Spain, for God sake. How is possible that you dont know Basques use Castilian as first language, ALWAYS, and that only a few of them know how to speak Euskera??

[albie]

Yourself is saying Bilbao is Castilian-speaker, so I dont get your point claiming other points of Vascongadas are Euskera-speakers just with the testimony of your sister... who lived in Bilbao.

Wikipedia means nothing, are you serious??

You live in Spain, for God sake. How is possible that you dont know Basques use Castilian as first language, ALWAYS, and that only a few of them know how to speak Euskera??

I am Spanish, but I don't live in Spain. And I have never been in Basque country, so I have no first-hand knowledge of what language do most of the people there speak. I am not that interested in the issue anyway. They can speak Hungarian if they want for all I care...
Yes, I said Bilbao is Spanish-speaking because that is what my sister told me. And I say it again.

[Cristiano viejo]

I am Spanish, but I don't live in Spain. And I have never been in Basque country, so I have no first-hand knowledge of what language do most of the people there speak. I am not that interested in the issue anyway. They can speak Hungarian if they want for all I care...
Yes, I said Bilbao is Spanish-speaking because that is what my sister told me. And I say it again.

You seemed to interest when you claimed they had retained their ancestral language and culture while the rest dont (what is partially false; Basques speaking Castilian, and absorving a looooooooooot of non-Basque culture from the rest of Spain, plus the rest of Spaniards retaining a lot of things from their ancestral culture same than Basques do, disagree with that sentence).

And just for curiosity:


Bilbao. Fundación

Fue una de las primeras villas que nacieron de un gran impulso fundacional llevado a cabo por la Corona de Castilla durante el siglo XIV que creó el 70 % de las villas vizcaínas, entre ellas Portugalete —1323—, Ondárroa —1327—, Lequeitio —1335—, Munguía y Larrabezúa —1376—.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilbao#Historia

[albie]

You seemed to interest when you claimed they had retained their ancestral language and culture while the rest dont (what is partially false; Basques speaking Castilian, and absorving a looooooooooot of non-Basque culture from the rest of Spain, plus the rest of Spaniards retaining a lot of things from their ancestral culture same than Basques do, disagree with that sentence).

And just for curiosity:



https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilbao#Historia

Look, that the Basque country has been an isolated and difficult to access land throughout History is a fact reported since there is knowledge of the existence of the Basque people. It is something emperor Augustus reported, who didn't manage to romanize and pacify the area, it is something the Visigothic Kings reported, who constantly needed to fight them, it is something the Kings of Castile reported, who were forced to accept their charters and privileges or else be stripped from their dignity as Lords of Biscay.
Has all this contributed to the Basque people being "sui generis" and unique, culturally and genetically, from the rest of Iberian populations? Undoubtedly, and is something that has been noted by many studies and scholars, as much as you want to ignore it:

http://www.expansion.com/2010/05/10/entorno/1273509469.html

It is only one example.
Even 23andme has the Basques as an ethnic group.

[Cristiano viejo]

Look, that the Basque country has been an isolated and difficult to access land throughout History is a fact reported since there is knowledge of the existence of the Basque people. It is something emperor Augustus reported, who didn't manage to romanize and pacify the area, it is something the Visigothic Kings reported, who constantly needed to fight them,
That applies to Asturias and Cantabria too, so what?


it is something the Kings of Castile reported, who were forced to accept their charters and privileges or else be stripped from their dignity as Lords of Biscay.
Has all this contributed to the Basque people being "sui generis" and unique, culturally and genetically, from the rest of Iberian populations? Undoubtedly, and is something that has been noted by many studies and scholars, as much as you want to ignore it:

http://www.expansion.com/2010/05/10/entorno/1273509469.html
Pardon? it was exactly the opposite, Basques themselves asked to join the crown of Castile

La verdadera historia del País Vasco: así se unieron Álava, Vizcaya y Guipúzcoa a Castilla
https://www.abc.es/historia/abci-verdadera-historia-pais-vasco-unieron-alava-vizcaya-y-guipuzcoa-castilla-201806210117_noticia.html



It is only one example.
Even 23andme has the Basques as an ethnic group.

23andme considers Jews as Europeans, it is not the best example of anything. Castilians, Galicians, Catalans, almost every Spanish region can be differentiated genetically. That does not mean they are isolated groups, or different.

How can you talk about an own ethnic group, when Basques are super-mixed with the rest of Spaniards, and most of them have any non-Basque origin?

[albie]

That applies to Asturias and Cantabria too, so what?


Pardon? it was exactly the opposite, Basques themselves asked to join the crown of Castile

La verdadera historia del País Vasco: así se unieron Álava, Vizcaya y Guipúzcoa a Castilla
https://www.abc.es/historia/abci-verdadera-historia-pais-vasco-unieron-alava-vizcaya-y-guipuzcoa-castilla-201806210117_noticia.html




23andme considers Jews as Europeans, it is not the best example of anything. Castilians, Galicians, Catalans, almost every Spanish region can be differentiated genetically. That does not mean they are isolated groups, or different.

How can you talk about an own ethnic group, when Basques are super-mixed with the rest of Spaniards, and most of them have any non-Basque origin?

There are many studies that point out Basques as being a separated group, just like the one I posted, it's with the scientists you need to argue, not with me. We are going astray from the topic in this forum, by the way, which are the 23andme results of Spaniards and Portuguese in general.

[alnortedelsur]

wrong thread

[Morena]

I think French & German increased a bit for iberians after this update and catalans and balearics are the iberians who score it the most. Nevertheless, it would be better to check Eurogenes k13 or k15, so you should try gedmatch.

This is what happened to me - by a significant amount.

[Vasconcelos]

This is what happened to me - by a significant amount.

Well I have 0%, same with British & Irish. In fact, besides Iberian I only get 2% Italian and that's it. It seems particularly good at picking up Iberian ancestry and getting rid of the rest. If east Iberians (Catalans) have excess French & German, it might be because there is some real ancestry from there, perhaps from the repopulation during the Reconquista in which people from southern France crossed the border

[albie]

I have the feeling that we Iberians are more homogeneous than other countries in Europe. For example, I have seen many fully British people to score only 50% or even 40% British/Irish, and the rest a combination of French/German, Scandinavian, Iberian, Eastern European, etc, whereas a Spaniard or Portuguese would typically be 70-90% Spanish.

[Sikeliot]

Are any mainland Iberians scoring "Senegambian and Guinean" with the 23andme update?

Almost all Madeirans and Azoreans I have seen score bits of it, as well as in some cases Nigerian and the Ghana/Sierra Leone -- but most of the minor SSA is Senegambian. I have not yet seen anyone with Congolese, which is interesting considering that there were a small number of Congolese and Angolan slaves brought there.

[albie]

Could be; Guinea was a Spanish colony for a looooong period of time, and some people from there came to Spain. So, there may be a tiny number of Spaniards with some ancestry from there.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Are any mainland Iberians scoring "Senegambian and Guinean" with the 23andme update?

Almost all Madeirans and Azoreans I have seen score bits of it, as well as in some cases Nigerian and the Ghana/Sierra Leone -- but most of the minor SSA is Senegambian. I have not yet seen anyone with Congolese, which is interesting considering that there were a small number of Congolese and Angolan slaves brought there.

Majority of people who I have seen that scored SSA is getting only "Broadly SSA" but basically the countries you mentioned are the ones that usually appear when they attribute a location.

[albie]

Well I have 0%, same with British & Irish. In fact, besides Iberian I only get 2% Italian and that's it. It seems particularly good at picking up Iberian ancestry and getting rid of the rest. If east Iberians (Catalans) have excess French & German, it might be because there is some real ancestry from there, perhaps from the repopulation during the Reconquista in which people from southern France crossed the border

I highly doubt that 23andme can detect ancestry from 700 or 800 years ago, which was when the Reconquista took place. By their statement, the results reflect where your ancestors lived in the last 500 years.

[Vasconcelos]

I highly doubt that 23andme can detect ancestry from 700 or 800 years ago, which was when the Reconquista took place. By their statement, the results reflect where your ancestors lived in the last 500 years.

It depends on the amount of ancestry we're talking about

[Vasconcelos]

Majority of people who I have seen that scored SSA is getting only "Broadly SSA" but basically the countries you mentioned are the ones that usually appear when they attribute a location.

I've seen many cases of Iberians (Spanish too) scoring non-broadly, with the exception of islanders it's usually just a couple of decimals of a percent, but pretty common. I've seen mainland Portuguese - both from north and south Portugal - samples with ~1% distributed over a few categories, but these are not very usual and the individual segments are probably small.
Normally it's Senegambian & Guinean but you also find Sudanese, Nigerian, Southern East African and Congolese - I found all these amongst Spanish individuals whom I can see on two account matches - but keep in mind that the recall rate of some of these populations isn't very high.

Occasionally you also see "North African and Arabian", usually in higher %

[Cristiano viejo]

Could be; Guinea was a Spanish colony for a looooong period of time, and some people from there came to Spain. So, there may be a tiny number of Spaniards with some ancestry from there.

Long period? it was a Spanish colony since 1926 until 1968. Literally not even a fuckin Spaniard has some ancestry from there. You can find blacks from there or mulattos, not ethnic Spaniards with such ancestry.