The most Slavized Southern Europeans?

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

As the title says. I say Foxy is, atleast judging from here it seems. 😛

[Peter Nirsch]

Serbians

[Sikeliot]

Serbs or Croats.

If you mean between the big 5 -- Spain, Portugal, Italy, Albania, and Greece -- then it is Greece.

[Trun]

Serbs or Croats.

If you mean between the big 5 -- Spain, Portugal, Italy, Albania, and Greece -- then it is Greece.

I thought big 5 is Malta instead of Albania.

[Faklon]

Serbs or Croats.

If you mean between the big 5 -- Spain, Portugal, Italy, Albania, and Greece -- then it is Greece.

What's the big 5?

Sounds like a burger designated for American mongrels.

[Trun]

What's the big 5?

Sounds like a burger designated for American mongrels.

How much do you squat, the Slavometer is waiting.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Serbs or Croats.

If you mean between the big 5 -- Spain, Portugal, Italy, Albania, and Greece -- then it is Greece.

Interesting. I would have thought Greece would be front line between the big 5. After Serbs and Croats.

[Faklon]

How much do you squat, the Slavometer is waiting.

Da fuq is big 5 though?

Do Cape Verdean mixed Euro mongrels in US use such designations to pretend they know a culture?

[Sikeliot]

I thought big 5 is Malta instead of Albania.

No one really knows Malta exists. Albania is a better candidate.

[armenianbodyhair]

What's the big 5?

Sounds like a burger designated for American mongrels.

There is actually a sports outlet store called big 5 here.

[TheGoldenSon]

Slovenes.

[Trun]

Da fuq is big 5 though?

Do Cape Verdean mixed Euro mongrels in US use such designations to pretend they know a culture?

Dunno, probably Sikeliot's interpretation of what Southern Europe is. Big 5 sounds badass. Like people who squat Slavic levels of Adidas.


No one really knows Malta exists. Albania is a better candidate.

And what makes it better candidate than Bulgaria, FYROM, Montenegro?

[Skerdilaid]

Servs, Bosniaks, Slovenians, Bulgarians-Fyromains and Croats are all Slavs you morons.

[Faklon]

Dunno, probably Sikeliot's interpretation of what Southern Europe is. Big 5 sounds badass. Like people who squat Slavic levels of Adidas.



Don't know,something closer to this BIG 5 comes to mind.

http://www.risingmaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/masturbation2.jpg

[Dun93]

Romania if it counts as southern europe if not then it's greece

[Sikeliot]

And what makes it better candidate than Bulgaria, FYROM, Montenegro?

Because the rest of you reject the label Southern Europe on here when others referred to you as such in the past. Anyway Balkan Slavs if included would be first, if not then it would be Greece. I don't think Romania counts as Southern Europe but if so, it'd be somewhere in between.


Romania if it counts as southern europe if not then it's greece

If Balkan Slavs are not counted then this is what I think.

[Trun]

Because the rest of you reject the label Southern Europe on here when others referred to you as such in the past. Anyway Balkan Slavs if included would be first, if not then it would be Greece. I don't think Romania counts as Southern Europe but if so, it'd be somewhere in between.

I think it has nothing more than geographic meaning. People use it in other aspects - such as culture and looks - where it means little.

Slavs can't be Slavicized by the way. I don't know what Slavicized means in a first place. Someone who acts like a Slav, behaves like a Slav maybe? If so, how does a Slav behave and act? Squatting and wearing Adidas?

[Nurzat]

even Balkan Slavs are hardly Slavic in the Russian-Polish way so I think the answer is clearly: NONE

[Sikeliot]

I think it has nothing more than geographic meaning. People use it in other aspects - such as culture and looks - where it means little.

Slavs can't be Slavicized by the way. I don't know what Slavicized means in a first place. Someone who acts like a Slav, behaves like a Slav maybe? If so, how does a Slav behave and act? Squatting and wearing Adidas?

Ok so if Romania does not count as Southern Europe, and Balkan Slavs are not part of the question.... Greece.

[Incal]

What's the big 5?

Sounds like a burger designated for American mongrels.

LMAO

[Shepherd]

What's the big 5?

Sounds like a burger designated for American mongrels.

No its a gyro for Turkish rape babies in Greece ;)

[Faklon]

I think it has nothing more than geographic meaning. People use it in other aspects - such as culture and looks - where it means little.

Slavs can't be Slavicized by the way. I don't know what Slavicized means in a first place. Someone who acts like a Slav, behaves like a Slav maybe? If so, how does a Slav behave and act? Squatting and wearing Adidas?

Hypothetically it may mean influenced by a Slavic culture/population.

Sikeliot is doing Korchak culture and subclades of R1a very hard right now.

[Faklon]

No its a gyro for Turkish rape babies in Greece ;)

What's your place in this?

Did your mongrelness called you by being pred Georgian mongrel and identifying as "Euroamerican"?

Do you use designations like Big Black Mongolian Cock as well?

Georgians also score halpogroup Q (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml) when Greeks do not.

So who knows maybe some cousin of Kipchak Hakan had fun with your grandmother.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

I consider Sikeliot as other exsample, a Slavized Sicilian Greek Like type. :D

[Shepherd]

What's your place in this?

Did your mongrelness called you by being a pred Georgian and identifying as "Euroamerican"?

Do you use pseudo-designations like Big Black Mongolian Cock as well?

Georgians also score halpogroup Q (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml) when Greeks do not.

So who knows maybe some cousin of Kipchak Hakan had fun with your grandmother.

Don't let your 15% SW Asian DNA translate into a fiery Arabian rage, please. I was only kidding

[Faklon]

Don't let your 15% SW Asian DNA translate into a fiery Arabian rage, please. I was only kidding

You're an American mongrel of pred Georgian ancestry and a vast Armenoid facial structure identiying as Dinarid/North Pontid + CM and "Euro(which is a cultural term and a name hailing from Greek mythology)-American".

Being Durkish-raped will only give end to your misery.

[Shepherd]

You're an American mongrel of pred Georgian ancestry and a vast Armenoid facial structure identiying as Dinarid/North Pontid + CM and "Euro(which is a cultural term and a name hailing from Greek mythology)-American".

Being Durkish-raped will only give end to your misery.

Listen up my east-med friend, first of all have you even seen my face? Lol theres not anything Armenoid about it

Anyway, it was your precious Greeks that set the boundaries of Europe at one point including Colchis within that boundary.

Why are you taking a joke so seriously anyway? That insecure about your great grandpa Mehmet?

[Faklon]

Listen up my east-med friend, first of all have you even seen my face? Lol theres not anything Armenoid about it

Anyway, it was your precious Greeks that set the boundaries of Europe at one point including Colchis within that boundary.

Why are you taking a joke so seriously anyway? That insecure about your great grandpa Mehmet?

I've seen your face and you're vastly Armenoid taking pictures under a light bulb like every OWDer here.


Anyway, it was your precious Greeks that set the boundaries of Europe at one point including Colchis within that boundary.

Source?Seems really strange for being so much into what they called Asia Minor but such geographical definition of Europe back in antiquity would be interesting to see.

Herodotus' account of Colchians is interesting.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/a3jm1g.jpg


Why are you taking a joke so seriously anyway? That insecure about your great grandpa Mehmet?

We don't have much Durkish rape jokes here,don't know how you celebrate the Q element in Colchia Euro-Ahmed.

[Shepherd]

I've seen your face and you're vastly Armenoid taking pictures under a light bulb like every OWDer here.



Source?Seems really strange for being so much into what they called Asia Minor but such geographical definition of Europe back in antiquity would be interesting to see.





We don't have much Durkish rape jokes here,don't know how you celebrate the Q element in Colchia Euro-Ahmed.
Lol taking pictures under a lightbulb? Youre fucking nuts man, delusions of the average Wog I guess.

This is the geographical definition I was talking about.
http://i.imgur.com/SPiUwKl.png
Btw, better the Q haplogroup than the North African E found in Greece ;)

[Ballist]

Bosnia, Croatia, Montenegro, and Sandzak.

[Faklon]

Lol taking pictures under a lightbulb? Youre fucking nuts man, delusions of the average Wog I guess.

This is the geographical definition I was talking about.
http://i.imgur.com/SPiUwKl.png
Btw, better the Q haplogroup than the North African E found in Greece ;)

C'mon now man.Every single fucking picture is under a light bulb to show that you can get lighter hair.
Yes,average wog whatever my Armenoid owder.



This is the geographical definition I was talking about.

Interesting,can't recall it.

I only remember that Strabo puts it at Tanais.

Asia is adjacent to Europe, bordering thereon along the Tanaïs River. I must therefore describe this country next, first dividing it, for the sake of clearness, by means of certain natural boundaries. That is, I must do for Asia precisely what Eratosthenes did for the inhabited world as a whole. (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Strab.+11.1)


Btw, better the Q haplogroup than the Balkan E found in Greece ;)

Better be raped Durkish ofshoot than a halpogroup(Ev13) that's shared almost only in Balkans and ancient colonies?

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

That's the inter-rape jokes I can't get.

[Sikeliot]

E1b subclades in the Balkans are Balkan-specific (except for places nearby like western Turkey and southern Italy) and are NOT linked to the subclades in Africa or the Middle East.

[Shepherd]

C'mon now man.Every single fucking picture is under a light bulb to show that you can get lighter hair.
Yes,average wog whatever my Armenoid owder.


Just lol my woggy east med friend, I acknowledge my hair is brown, I don't try to make it any lighter. You probably couldnt even if you tried though because woggish black hair is black even under a lamp :lol:

And wtf do you mean under a lightbulb anyway you paranoid buffoon? I just take them in the bathroom.

[Faklon]

Just lol my woggy east med friend, I acknowledge my hair is brown, I don't try to make it any lighter. You probably couldnt even if you tried though because woggish black hair is black even under a lamp :lol:

And wtf do you mean under a lightbulb anyway you paranoid buffoon? I just take them in the bathroom.

You take your pictures under a light bulb because you're a sneaky sneaky owder.

My hair is admitelly not black but eastmednordishamernoidotronder Zeus forgive me if I go like a sneaky sneaky sneaky OWDer to highlight it on lightbulbs to appear "noble" for anthrocels.

[Shepherd]

You take your pictures under a light bulb because you're a sneaky sneaky owder.

My hair is admitelly not black but eastmednordishamernoidotronder Zeus forgive me if I go like a sneaky sneaky sneaky OWDer to highlight it on lightbulbs to appear "noble" for anthrocels.

Bro youre literally autistic

[Faklon]

Bro youre literally autistic

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55009672.jpg

Anyway,you fit the inbred pshychopathic bankid type despite new world mongrelness.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=55976&d=1426699823

May you have success in life.

[Damião de Góis]

Probably Slovenia.

[Sikeliot]

How does it feel to not belong to it?

I'm R1a, probably from a Greek ancestor. I think I am fine.

[Faklon]

I'm R1a, probably from a Greek ancestor. I think I am fine.

What's the subclade?

[Casandrinos]

I'm R1a, probably from a Greek ancestor. I think I am fine.

Nah

Just Slavs

[Sikeliot]

I get the R1a from my Sicilian side, not my Polish side. Either way it is Indo-European.

[Casandrinos]

I get the R1a from my Sicilian side, not my Polish side. Either way it is Indo-European.

Norman influence probably.

[Faklon]

I get the R1a from my Sicilian side, not my Polish side. Either way it is Indo-European.

WHATS THE SUBCLADE?

Here he speaks about Narentines in Apulia (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=221350).

[Sikeliot]

Norman influence probably.

Not in Messina.

[Faklon]

Not in Messina.

To the Normans, Messina was an essential foothold in their conquest of the island during the eleventh century, though their first ships actually landed at a point on the Ionian coast south of the city in the middle of the night. (http://www.bestofsicily.com/messina.htm)

They even have a Norman Cathedral.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Foto_Duomo_Messina_september_09.jpg/800px-Foto_Duomo_Messina_september_09.jpg
:hrm00000:

[Casandrinos]

To the Normans, Messina was an essential foothold in their conquest of the island during the eleventh century, though their first ships actually landed at a point on the Ionian coast south of the city in the middle of the night. (http://www.bestofsicily.com/messina.htm)

They even have a Norman Cathedral.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Foto_Duomo_Messina_september_09.jpg/800px-Foto_Duomo_Messina_september_09.jpg
:hrm00000:


NOT IN MESSINA!!!!!

[Sikeliot]

My Sicilian side on calculators gets misread as Ashkenazi. Unlikely I have any Norman.

[Jana]

Again, I wonder how many people have been to Europe that comment in this thread. Slovenia Southern European ?:D

Being in Southern half of Europe and being Southern European (culture, climate etc) is not the same thing. About Slavicized, it is hard to say, I begin to think all those meta-ethnicities mean little and have not much specific genes related to them. Maybe they do, but in the end we South Slavs don't cluster wiht Southern Europeans, and naturaly have much-non Slavic admixture...

[Alchemysta]

This thread went full retard

[Jana]

This thread went full retard

Your comment is very helpful

[Alchemysta]

i love you too

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Bump

[Damião de Góis]

What's the big 5?

Sounds like a burger designated for American mongrels.

Where can i try these BIG 5 burgers?

[SupaThug]

Where can i try these BIG 5 burgers?

Only in New World countries.

[Bobby Martnen]

Slovenes.

[xripkan]

I think Serbs and Croats are the most Slavized countries in Southern Europe. Slovenes have a little germanic blood. Bulgarians are slavs mixed with thracians who were one of the most populous tribes in Antiquity.

[Nurzat]

The most Slavized Southern Europeans?

of all the Southern peoples, culturally and genetically the Moldovans are the most Slavic. genetically on par with Croats and Slovenes maybe but unlike those, Moldovans also have a lot of real ethnic Ukrainians and Russians among them or people of real recent East Slavic ancestry. they were also part of the Soviet Union and most speak Russian as native language (bilingual with Romanian).

if you mean most Slavic of the Mediterranean peoples only, it's the Croats.

if you mean most Slavic of the traditionally Mediterranean peoples only, it's the Greeks (how could Italians or Iberians even fit for the question, lol xD), although honestly no Med country qualifies for 'most Slavicized...'

[ooops]

Servs, Bosniaks, Slovenians, Bulgarians-Fyromains and Croats are all Slavs you morons.

exactly

[StonyArabia]

Bulgarians

[Papastratosels26]

Bulgarians-Fyromians imo

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Jana]

Moldovans are not Slavic. And they score lower Baltic than Croats do. Funny how everyone want to be Slavic, Imherad mamy funny claims Hungarians and Romaniams are more Slavic than us hahah xD Well you arent.

[Moje ime]

Serbs and Croats (and Bulgarians) are not Southern but South Eastern Europeans. :picard1: Serbs and Croats are Slavs by haplogroups. The most "Slavized" Southern Europeans are those with E or J haplogroup who today speak Slavic language.

[Pribislav]

The most "Slavized" Southern Europeans are those with E or J haplogroup who today speak Slavic language.

Those are Sandžak muslims.

[Nurzat]

Moldovans are not Slavic. And they score lower Baltic than Croats do. Funny how everyone want to be Slavic, Imherad mamy funny claims Hungarians and Romaniams are more Slavic than us hahah xD Well you arent.

Slavic means akin to Eastern Slavs. as landscape, architecture, socially and culturally, Moldovans are just Romanian-speaking Soviets. Baltic score close enough to the ones of the Croats but that is less important - Rep of Moldova has lots of Ukrainian and Russian ethnic people plus lots of mixed Romanian-Russian folks, and maybe the most important, most people speak Russian as natives and follow Russian media and culture and music etc, so they are culturally Eastern Slavs for the most.

make this test - ask any Russian, Ukrainian or Belarusian who do they feel more Slavic/Soviet, an Orthodox Russian-speaking Moldovan or a Papist Serbian-speaking Croat. 99% will say the Moldovan

[Pubiczar]

Slavic means akin to Eastern Slavs. as landscape, architecture, socially and culturally, Moldovans are just Romanian-speaking Soviets. Baltic score close enough to the ones of the Croats but that is less important - Rep of Moldova has lots of Ukrainian and Russian ethnic people plus lots of mixed Romanian-Russian folks, and maybe the most important, most people speak Russian as natives and follow Russian media and culture and music etc, so they are culturally Eastern Slavs for the most.

make this test - ask any Russian, Ukrainian or Belarusian who do they feel more Slavic/Soviet, an Orthodox Russian-speaking Moldovan or a Papist Serbian-speaking Croat. 99% will say the Moldovan

I know a Moldovan guy who speaks both Romanian and Russian.
I've asked him once how is he identifying himself and he said, I am Moldavian.
He looks very East Slavic, like Ukrainian or something.
I will never mistake him for Romanian.

[Pribislav]

Slavic means akin to Eastern Slavs. as landscape, architecture, socially and culturally, Moldovans are just Romanian-speaking Soviets. Baltic score close enough to the ones of the Croats but that is less important - Rep of Moldova has lots of Ukrainian and Russian ethnic people plus lots of mixed Romanian-Russian folks, and maybe the most important, most people speak Russian as natives and follow Russian media and culture and music etc, so they are culturally Eastern Slavs for the most.

Before Russian/Ukrainian colonization of Moldavia in 19th century Latin speaking people of Moldovia were mostly typical Vlachs.

Most of Moldavian rulers from the middle age looks Vlachic. Some of them had Slavic mames such as Dragos, Mircea, Bogdan...

Dragos of Moldavia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/DragosIofMoldavia.jpg

Bogdan I of Moldavia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Bogdan_I_of_Moldavia.jpg/800px-Bogdan_I_of_Moldavia.jpg

Ioan III the Terrible
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Ioan_Voda.jpg

Bogdan I looks very Aromanian.

[Jana]

Slavic means akin to Eastern Slavs. as landscape, architecture, socially and culturally, Moldovans are just Romanian-speaking Soviets. Baltic score close enough to the ones of the Croats but that is less important - Rep of Moldova has lots of Ukrainian and Russian ethnic people plus lots of mixed Romanian-Russian folks, and maybe the most important, most people speak Russian as natives and follow Russian media and culture and music etc, so they are culturally Eastern Slavs for the most.

make this test - ask any Russian, Ukrainian or Belarusian who do they feel more Slavic/Soviet, an Orthodox Russian-speaking Moldovan or a Papist Serbian-speaking Croat. 99% will say the Moldovan

First of all we dont speak Serbian idiot.
Second I dont give a damn how Soviet (degenerate Jew originated culture that is zero Slavic and that was forced on Moldovans) you are, Tajikistan and Azerbaijan were Soviet too, are they Slavic ? :laugh:

Moldovans are East Europeans and non Slavs with Slavic admixture and influences.

You cant be more Slavic than actual Slavic people because than you are wannabe (you are half Slavic ok). Some Latin speaking group cant be called Slavic in any sense its ridiculous.

Btw Gypsies live in Hungary, does that make them Central European ? xD

Moldovans are even genetically less Slavic than us, even when many samples were probably East slavic admixed because average Romanian Moldovans are not more Slavic than Serbs.

They are not Slavic in any sense and stop making them something they are not.

Fuck your shit Soviet culture. We are Catholic Slavs and proud.

[Jana]

Before Russian/Ukrainian colonization of Moldavia in 19th century Latin speaking people of Moldovia were mostly typical Vlachs.

Most of Moldavian rulers from the middle age looks Vlachic. Some of them had Slavic mames such as Dragos, Mircea, Bogdan...

Dragos of Moldavia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/DragosIofMoldavia.jpg

Bogdan I of Moldavia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Bogdan_I_of_Moldavia.jpg/800px-Bogdan_I_of_Moldavia.jpg

Ioan III the Terrible
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Ioan_Voda.jpg

Bogdan I looks very Aromanian.

I heard many Moldovan East Slavic mixes are present in Rep of Moldova samples, I read it from Russian users on TA, and even these mixes are less Baltic than Croats. Imagine how pure Moldovans are than. El Moldovano himself said they are mostly pontids and alpinids.

[Nurzat]

Before Russian/Ukirainian colonization of Moldavia in 19th century Latin speaking people of Moldovia were mostly typical Vlachs.

Most of Moldavian rulers from the middle age looks Vlachic. Some of them had Slavic mames such as Dragos, Mircea, Bogdan...

Dragos of Moldavia

Bogdan I of Moldavia

Ioan III the Terrible

Bogdan I looks very Aromanian.

ruling class was never indigenous xD especially the first ones that came straight from Marmarosh (north of Transylvania), appointed by the Hungarian king. hundreds of villages entered 20th century Ukrainian-speaking in northern Moldova (Romanian side) and there was never a colonization, those were East Slavic since the Middle Ages and even before the Moldovan state. not even Romanian Moldovans are genetically Vlach to this day more than 1/2 (half Vlach half Old Slavic)

[Jana]

Stears cluster with Rep Moldova exactly because he is less Slavic than many Hungarians and less Slavic than me xD

[Pribislav]

I heard many Moldovan East Slavic mixes are present in Rep of Moldova samples, I read it from Russian users on TA, and even these mixes are less Baltic than Croats. Imagine how pure Moldovans are than. El Moldovano himself said they are mostly pontids and alpinids.

Slavic input in Moldavia is recent, from Russian/Ukrainian colonists in the last 200 years.
Many Moldavians are ethnic Russians and Ukrainians which live in Moldavia. If Russians and Ukrainians would be removed from Moldavia than Moldavians would be "Slavic" in the same level as Romanians.

What Moldavian means? Moldavian are not ethnicity. There is Romanians, Russians, Ukrainians, Tatars, Gagauz, Bulgarians, Jews, Hungarians/Csangos... in Moldavia. Moldavian is person with citizenship of Moldavia, nothing else.

[Coastal Elite]

Slovenia

[Mingle]

Slavic input in Moldavia is recent, from Russian/Ukrainian colonists in the last 200 years.
Many Moldavians are ethnic Russians and Ukrainians which live in Moldavia. If Russians and Ukrainians would be removed from Moldavia than Moldavians would be "Slavic" in the same level as Romanians.

What Moldavian means? Moldavian are not ethnicity. There is Romanians, Russians, Ukrainians, Tatars, Gagauz, Bulgarians, Jews, Hungarians/Csangos... in Moldavia. Moldavian is person with citizenship of Moldavia, nothing else.

I don't think Slavs are included in the Moldovan sample. The Slavic admixture among Moldovans is likely ancient. Have we seen results from Romanian Moldova to compare? I don't think there would be a significant difference. There are more Slavs in Estonia than Moldova yet Estonians plot where they're supposed to based on their geography. Romania also has ethnic minorities like Szeklers, Tatars, etc. so I don't think that Moldova is some special case here. The Slavic admixture among Moldovans is probably ancient and likely exists among people from Romanian Moldova as well.

[Jana]

I don't think Slavs are included in the Moldovan sample. The Slavic admixture among Moldovans is likely ancient. Have we seen results from Romanian Moldova to compare? I don't think there would be a significant difference. There are more Slavs in Estonia than Moldova yet Estonians plot where they're supposed to based on their geography. Romania also has ethnic minorities like Szeklers, Tatars, etc. so I don't think that Moldova is some special case here. The Slavic admixture among Moldovans is probably ancient and likely exists among people from Romanian Moldova as well.

No it isnt. Romanian Moldovans cluster with Serbs on average not with Republic, I posted to you quotes from Romanian user on another forum. So they arent identical.

[Jana]

Slovenia

Has nothing to do with southern Europeans.

[Mingle]

No it isnt. Romanian Moldovans cluster with Serbs on average not with Republic, I posted to you quotes from Romanian user on another forum. So they arent identical.

I thought that was North Romania in general as opposed to specifically the Moldova region of Romania? If Romanians from Romanian Moldova cluster with Serbs, then its probably not ancient.

But what about people like IncelSlayer who are closer to Republic Moldovans & Croats than to Serbs? Surely he isn't a one off and there must be more people like him?

[Pribislav]

I don't think Slavs are included in the Moldovan sample. The Slavic admixture among Moldovans is likely ancient. Have we seen results from Romanian Moldova to compare? I don't think there would be a significant difference. There are more Slavs in Estonia than Moldova yet Estonians plot where they're supposed to based on their geography. Romania also has ethnic minorities like Szeklers, Tatars, etc. so I don't think that Moldova is some special case here. The Slavic admixture among Moldovans is probably ancient and likely exists among people from Romanian Moldova as well.

In the last 100 years there is a lot of mixed marriages between Latin speaking Moldavians (Romanians) and Russian/Ukrainians.

In the middle age Slavs were present in Moldavia. Buit they were only few.
In the middle age before Vlach migrations from the Bulgaria Moldavia was Turkic shifted place with a lot of Tatars and Gagauz.
Most of Slavic element in Moldavia arrived to Moldavia after 1810 with Russian/Ukrainian colonists.

In the late antique period Moldavia was under the Huns, in early middle age Avars and proto-Bulgarians live in Moldavia, in 9th century Magyars settled to Moldavia, after Magyars in Moldova were present Pechenegs and Cumans, and after them Tatars. Vlach people arrived to Moldavia in 14th century, and in the same time Tatar rule was ended.

Before they arrived to Pannonia in 896, Magyars live in present day Moldavia almost 100 years
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Europe_814.png

[Jana]

I thought that was North Romania in general as opposed to specifically the Moldova region of Romania? If Romanians from Romanian Moldova cluster with Serbs, then its probably not ancient.

But what about people like IncelSlayer who are closer to Republic Moldovans & Croats than to Serbs? Surely he isn't a one off and there must be more people like him?

He is very Slavic yes. He claims many Romanians from Moldova are like he but failed to show them. Plus he is very western and has zero mongoloid unlike other Moldavians and match Croatia on 23and me so who know what the hell is he :D

[Nurzat]

He is very Slavic yes. He claims many Romanians from Moldova are like he but failed to show them. Plus he is very western and has zero mongoloid unlike other Moldavians and match Croatia on 23and me so who know what the hell is he :D

one of the two Moldovan friends from northeast Romania that tested with me in 2011 clusters with Moldovans from the Republic too. who knows how many 'Romanian' Moldovans show the same amount of East Slavic blood

[Pribislav]

Atelenau was land of Magyars before they settled to Pannonia.

Atelenau was in present day Moldavia and part of Ukraine near Moldavia.

[Jana]

Why did Albanian Hulu thumb me down ?:confused:

[Nurzat]

Atelenau was land of Magyars before they settled to Pannonia.

Atelenau was in present day Moldavia and part of Ukraine near Moldavia.

the first Vlachs arrived in Moldova in the 13th century - they infiltrated the land in great numbers over about two centuries and then slowly assimilated the local Slavs, Germans, Hungarians and Cumans over the next centuries. at the beginning of the 20th century there were still hundreds of villages not speaking Romanian but Ukrainian (Ruthenian), Russian (Lipovan), Hungarian (Csango) and German. Vlachs imposed their language in whole Moldova only after the creation of the fake Romanian state in the 1850s, that annexed the region. Vlachs are not indigenous to Moldova and genetically they count for less than half the ancestry of random Moldovans and for no ancestry for all the non-Romanian Moldovans (Ruthenian, Csango, Lipovan, German, Cuman etc)

[Hulu]

Why did Albanian Hulu thumb me down ?:confused:

Because you are so rude, why did you call him an idiot? Eskimo is pretty cultured and polite.

[Jana]

Atelenau was land of Magyars before they settled to Pannonia.

Atelenau was in present day Moldavia and part of Ukraine near Moldavia.

Oh now it explain why Stears is genetically more Moldavian than IncelSlayer xD

[Jana]

Because you are so rude, why did you call him an idiot? Eskimo is pretty cultured and polite.

He insulted Croats that is why I called him idiot, otherwise I have no issues with him.

We dont speak Serbian and such claims are pure provocation.

[Mingle]

He is very Slavic yes. He claims many Romanians from Moldova are like he but failed to show them. Plus he is very western and has zero mongoloid unlike other Moldavians and match Croatia on 23and me so who know what the hell is he :DSo were the quotes you showed me from another forum about North Romania in general or was Romanian Moldova specified there too? Cause I don't remember it being specified.

If it wasn't specified, then I think its safe to assume that Northwest Romanians (Maramuresh, Crishana) cluster with Serbs whereas Northeast Romanians (Moldovans) cluster with Bessarabians & Croats based off of IS's result (he's from Romanian Moldova right?) and what Eskimo said just now. My guess is that the North Romanian results on the other forum were mainly based off Northwest Romanian samples.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Sikeliot]

Greece, if South Slavs and Romanians do not count.

[Pribislav]

the first Vlachs arrived in Moldova in the 13th century - they infiltrated the land in great numbers over about two centuries and then slowly assimilated the local Slavs, Germans, Hungarians and Cumans over the next centuries. at the beginning of the 20th century there were still hundreds of villages not speaking Romanian but Ukrainian (Ruthenian), Russian (Lipovan), Hungarian (Csango) and German. Vlachs imposed their language in whole Moldova only after the creation of the fake Romanian state in the 1850s, that annexed the region. Vlachs are not indigenous to Moldova and genetically they count for less than half the ancestry of random Moldovans and for no ancestry for all the non-Romanian Moldovans (Ruthenian, Csango, Lipovan, German, Cuman etc)

Vlachs can not be native in Moldova, because Moldova was never under the Romans.
Only 1/3 of modern Romania was under the Romans and only for 160 years (not enough for latinization of locals).

Vlachs arrived to Romania and Moldova from Bulgaria, southeastern Serbia, Macedonia and norethern Greece in 13th and 14th century.

[Jana]

So were the quotes you showed me from another forum about North Romania in general or was Romanian Moldova specified there too? Cause I don't remember it being specified.

If it wasn't specified, then I think its safe to assume that Northwest Romanians (Maramuresh, Crishana) cluster with Serbs whereas Northeast Romanians (Moldovans) cluster with Bessarabians & Croats based off of IS's result (he's from Romanian Moldova right?) and what Eskimo said just now. My guess is that the North Romanian results on the other forum were mainly based off Northwest Romanian samples.

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It was north Romania altogheder, but you are wrong it included mostly NW Romanians, it included both them and many Romanian Moldovans.

DorkeyMoon himself is Romanian Moldovan and he genetically far apart from IncelOutlier.

[Dick]

Serbs and Croats (and Bulgarians) are not Southern but South Eastern Europeans. :picard1: Serbs and Croats are Slavs by haplogroups. The most "Slavized" Southern Europeans are those with E or J haplogroup who today speak Slavic language.

In a nutshell all Europeans are Indo-Europeanized. Look at the recent genetic study of Iberia where the r1b men killed the indigenous males and bred with their women. We are all “-ized” of something or other.

[Jana]

I think Csango Magyars have Vlach blood.

[Jana]

Slavs were in Moldova before they were in the Balkans but seem they were largerly displaced by later Magyar, Turkic and Vlach migrations, otherwise Moldovans would still speak Slavic natively and they dont.

[Pribislav]

I think Csango Magyars have Vlach blood.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNYtxwvNB-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MCmFCMmkb0

Does Stears has some Csango ancestors?

[Dick]

Slavs were in Moldova before they were in the Balkans but seem they were largerly displaced by later Magyar, Turkic and Vlach migrations, otherwise Moldovans would still speak Slavic natively and they dont.

Well the Huns displaced a lot of people for example the goths fleed them And Rome took hundreds of thousands of them in, recorded stories of goths exchanging their children for food because of starvation, the rest is history. I wonder if Rome would have fell if it wasn’t for that mass migration into their empire thanks to the Huns.

[Pubiczar]

Slavs were in Moldova before they were in the Balkans but seem they were largerly displaced by later Magyar, Turkic and Vlach migrations, otherwise Moldovans would still speak Slavic natively and they dont.

Slavs were never displaced from those places...
They were rather assimilated.
Anyway language =/= ethnicity
Moldavians are genetically more related to the Slavs rather than Latins.
The Irish and the Scots are supposed to be Celts and yet they speak English, a Germanic language.
The languages in the past were spread by the churches and the ruling bodies of the kingdoms and empires.

[Jana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNYtxwvNB-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MCmFCMmkb0

Does Stears has some Csango ancestors?

Very likely, yes.

[Jana]

Slavs were never displaced from those places...
They were rather assimilated.
Anyway language =/= ethnicity
Moldavians are genetically more related to the Slavs rather than Latins.
The Irish and the Scots are supposed to be Celts and yet they speak English, a Germanic language.
The languages in the past were spread by the churches and the ruling bodies of the kingdoms and empires.

Slavic languages were never spreaded by church but by tribal migrations.

If Moldovans were untouched by later migrations they would be more Slavic than Croats and they arent, they are also darker on all pigmentation maps. And they wouldnt speak Romance but they do.

Croatia is SW from Moldova and further from Slavic core yet natives are more Slavic on average.

[Pribislav]

Very likely, yes.

From what I have seen many Csangos looks like Romanians. Not like Slavic looking or Slavic influenced Romanians, but like non-Slavic looking Romanians who have own unique looks.

[Pubiczar]

Slavic lamguages were never spreaded by church but by tribal migrations.

If Moldovans were untouched by later migrations they would be more Slavic than Croats and they arent, they are also darker on all pigmentation maps.

Croaia is SW from Moldova and further from Slavic core yet natives are more Slavic on average.

That's not true...
The Churches played big part in the assimilation of the masses.
That's why big empires like the Byzantine empire and the Bulgarian empire were able to assimilate a lot of people in their ranks, weather they were Slavs, Turkics, Latins or whatever...
How you would then explain the big difference in genetics and phenotypes that exist in the Slavic countries?
And why would the spreading of the Slavic language would be different than that of the Latin?
Remember, neither the Vlachs were originally Latin speaking folk...

[Jana]

That's not true...
The Churches played big part in the assimilation of the masses.
That's why big empires like the Byzantine empire and the Bulgarian empire were able to assimilate a lot of people in their ranks, weather they were Slavs, Turkics, Latins or whatever...
How you would then explain the big difference in genetics and phenotypes that exist in the Slavic countries?
And why would the spreadin of the Slavic language would be different than that of the Latin?
Remember, neither the Vlachs were originally a latin speaking folk...

Roman Empire spread language by elite dominance, primitive Slavs could do it only trough mass migrations.

Catholic Slavs church was Latin speaking btw.

[Jana]

From what I have seen many Csangos looks like Romanians. Not like Slavic looking or Slavic influenced Romanians, but like non-Slavic looking Romanians who have own unique looks.

Stears say that to but he deny Csango ancestors despite many Szekely from his father town married with Csango girls for centuries.

[Pubiczar]

Roman Empire spread language by elite dominance, primitive Slavs could do it only trough mass migrations.

Catholic Slavs church was Latin speaking btw.

Not all Slavs are Catholic and no, Bulgarian Empire was for sure not primitive since was able to conquer such a vast territory, or to establish a Church like the Ohrid archbishop in which the Old Church Slavonic was used!

I don't know how many Moldavians have you met but I have met some and some of them looked straight out Ukrainian and others were somehow dark, but not dark as Southern European but rather Asian influenced...

[Nurzat]

Stears say that to but he deny Csango ancestors despitse many Szekely from his father town married with Csango girls for centuries.

two former work mates were Csango from Csango villages (so they were not people claiming Csango ancestry but came from communities where the dialect is spoken - I visited one of them in his village and heard it myself). both blondish and not looking very Romanian.

one of my best friends is Csango, he looks like a Swedish-Finnish combo.

I'll send photos in PM.

but overall they may look less Central European or less Germanic than Hungarians, of course, since they were never Central Europeans in the first place. and some mixing may have occurred, but I would not call them straight Vlachs

[Jana]

Not all Slavs are Catholic and no, Bulgarian Empire was for sure not primitive since was able to conquer such a vast territory, or to establish a Church like the Ohrid archbishop in which the Old Church Slavonic was used!

I don't know how many Moldavians have you met but I have met some and some of them looked straight out Ukrainian and others were somehow dark, but not dark as Southern European but rather Asian influenced...

Ukrainians and Russians are significant minority in Moldavia. Anyway nobody said they are meds but non Slavic East Europeans.

[Nurzat]

Ukrainians and Russians are significant minority in Moldavia. Anyway nobody said they are meds but non Slavic East Europeans.

but there's a whole lot of Moldovans that can pass as Russian/Malorussian/Belarusian, I think that's what he's pointing at

[Ayetooey]

Out of the South Slavs the most Slavic are either NW Croats or Bosniaks. If you mean out of "Southern Europe" as in Spain, Italy, Greece etc, probably some individuals in Northern Greece?

[Jana]

but there's a whole lot of Moldovans that can pass as Russian/Malorussian/Belarusian, I think that's what he's pointing at
Sure there are, nothing weird about it.


Out of the South Slavs the most Slavic are either NW Croats or Bosniaks. If you mean out of "Southern Europe" as in Spain, Italy, Greece etc, probably some individuals in Northern Greece?

Bosniaks are as Slavic as Dalmatian and Slavonian Croats, not more Slavic at all.

NW Croats are less Slavic and more Celtic just like Slovenians.

[Ayetooey]

Sure there are, nothing weird about it.



Bosniaks are as Slavic as Dalmatian and Slavonian Croats, not more Slavic at all.

NW Croats are less Slavic and more Celtic just like Slovenians.

Maybe, issue is Sandzakians are often included into Bosniak test numbers, even with Sandzakians grouped up Bosniaks are overwhelmingly Slavic by Y dna, I think if Bosniaks from Bosnia were taken as an individual sample they may be the most Slavic. It's kind of unfair to compare regional testing samples of just Slavonian Croats, with all Bosniaks.

Many Bosniak samples also include Pomaks, Goranis, Torbeši etc.

[Jana]

Maybe, issue is Sandzakians are often included into Bosniak test numbers, even with Sandzakians grouped up Bosniaks are overwhelmingly Slavic by Y dna, I think if Bosniaks from Bosnia were taken as an individual sample they may be the most Slavic. It's kind of unfair to compare regional testing samples of just Slavonian Croats, with all Bosniaks.

Many Bosniak samples also include Pomaks, Goranis, Torbeši etc.

No, Bosniaks from Bosnia are most similar to Dalmatian Croats and Western Serbs.

They arent most Slavic and most Slavic group in Bosnia are Bosnian Croats by YDNA.

In Croatia pure Dalmatians are most Slavic (those that arent mixed with Italians which is extremely rare anyway)

[Jana]

Actually in Bosnia all three groups are genetically most similar to each other autosomally.

[Jana]

Btw Slavonian Croats mostly descend from Bosnian Catholics and some assimilated minorities like Czechs.

[Dick]

not much info on them online except for this



A study estimating possible Inner Asian admixture among nearly 500 Hungarians based on paternal lineages only, estimated it at 5.1% in Hungary, at 7.4 in Székelys and at 6.3% at Csangos.[20][21]

[Ayetooey]

No, Bosniaks from Bosnia are most similar to Dalmatian Croats and Western Serbs.

They arent most Slavic and most Slavic group in Bosnia are Bosnian Croats by YDNA.

In Croatia pure Dalmatians are most Slavic (those that arent mixed with Italians which is extremely rare anyway)
By Y dna maybe, I don't believe they are autosomally, they clearly have paleo-Balkan admixture. I think Slavonians are the most Slavic in Croatia, I doubt you have as many dinarids in Slavonia when compared to Dalmatia. Slavonians are probably the same as Bosniaks, though once again most Bosniak samples include Sandzakians and other groups.

Bosnian Croats plot to the south-west of Croatian-Croats according to k36 map, so even though they are heavily Slavic by y dna, it implies more native maternal blood. The gap isn't massive though.

[Ayetooey]

A lot of modern day Bosnian-Serbs have recent roots in Herzegovina and Montenegro btw, I would guess they plot differently to Bosniaks and Bosnian-Croats.

[Jana]

Edit

Only coastal town population has significant Vlach blood, rest of Dalmatians are among most Slavic groups in the region and their genetics show that.

Man could fit easily as Pole and woman fit among East Slavs no problem. My entire family was like that, I made thread about them and most said they looked Slavic as hell :D

[Ayetooey]

Here is how unmixed Dalmatian Croats looked like in the past (my great great grnadparents)http://oi67.tinypic.com/2mmuv5s.jpg

Only coastal town population has significant Vlach blood, rest of Dalmatians are among most Slavic groups in the region and their genetics show that.

Man could fit easily as Pole and woman fit among East Slavs no problem. My entire family was like that, I made thread about them and most said they looked Slavic as hell :D

Aren't you from an island though? I don't think that's a good representation of the whole region. Coastal town population is much more significant, and many of them are quite swarthy. Inlanders often have roots from Herzegovina and don't look that Slavic tbh.

[Jana]

A lot of modern day Bosnian-Serbs have recent roots in Herzegovina and Montenegro btw, I would guess they plot differently to Bosniaks and Bosnian-Croats.

They dont, they plot with muslim and catholic Bosnians Herzegovians on average.

[Jana]

Btw I find many Slavonians darky and Balkan looking. They are most diverse because their region was most mixed in entire Croatia and in Ydna less Slavic than Dalmatians (Croats, Serbs, Hungarians, Germans, Rusyns, Czechs, Slovaks even Italians and Jews etc)

[Mingle]

Does B&H have regional variations in genetics like Serbia and Croatia do or is it uniform throughout the country? And are Slavonian Croats genetically different from B&H people?

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Jana]

Aren't you from an island though? I don't think that's a good representation of the whole region. Coastal town population is much more significant, and many of them are quite swarthy. Inlanders often have roots from Herzegovina and don't look that Slavic tbh.

You obviously have no idea what are you tslkijg about. Most people in towns are not native but from Islands and Hinterland/Wallachia :D

Autochtonous coastal population is low and they are most meddish Dalmatians. Robocop town Zadar is good example of that.

Yes we are from BiH and we look very Slavic. My island is much lighter than most of slavonia. Ask Robocop about pigmentation of Dalmatian Islands (except those with antique roots) and he will tell you the same.

[Ayetooey]

You obviously have no idea what are you tslkijg about. Most people in towns are not native but from Islands and Hinterland/Wallachia :D

Autochtonous coastal population is low and they are most meddish Dalmatians. Robocop town Zadar is good example of that.

Yes we are from BiH and we look very Slavic. My island is much lighter than most of slavonia. Ask Robocop about pigmentation of Dalmatian Islands (except those with antique roots) and he will tell you the same.

Jana, no one cares about random Islands, you can't judge the entire region based on Islands, one town on the coast has a higher population than all your islands put together, you are being disingenous. You should judge the region based of the majority population in the towns and cities, your island has like 2000 people or something lol.

[Jana]

Btw swarthiness of dinaric alps Slavs is brutally exeggerated on these boards.

[Ayetooey]

I think you misread my quoted post, I said INLANDERS not ISLANDERS btw.

[Jana]

Jana, no one cares about random Islands, you can't judge the entire region based on Islands, one town on the coast has a higher population than all your islands put together, you are being disingenous. You should judge the region based of the majority population in the towns and cities, your island has like 2000 people or something lol.

As I said most coastal population isnt native.
In Dalmatia we have strictly divided identities -Islander , Coastal and Hinterlander.

I am Islander so I show Islanders despite our roots are from mainland.

[Ayetooey]

As I said most coastal population isnt native.
In Dalmatia we have strictly divided identities -Islander , Coastal and Hinterlander.

I am Islander so I show Islanders despite our roots are from mainland.

Yeah but you are conflating your small Island population with the entire region, city of Split alone has over 3 times the population of every Dalmatian Island combined, so why should only your small population represent Dalmatia? If you're taking an average, you should judge on the majority population, which is in coastal cities.

[Jana]

Does B&H have regional variations in genetics like Serbia and Croatia do or is it uniform throughout the country? And are Slavonian Croats genetically different from B&H people?

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From my reseach Bosniaks , Western Serbs and all Croats except NW cluster quite close not identical but similar.

NW Croats are different and more like Slovenians with Celtic admixture and less Balkan.

[Jana]

Yeah but you are conflating your small Island population with the entire region, city of Split alone has over 3 times the population of every Dalmatian Island combined, so why should only your small population represent Dalmatia? If you're taking an average, you should judge on the majority population, which is in coastal cities.

Are you aware most of modern Split people hail from hinterland or nearby Islands, only few chakavian natives are left ? Zadar has stronger native element IMO but it exist in Split and Dubrovnik too ofc in Sibenik the least

[Jana]

Many Croats from Zadar are partly Italian according to Robo, I think its less in Split. Quite certain actually.

[Ayetooey]

Are you aware most of modern Split people hail from hinterland or nearby Islands, only few chakavian natives are left ? Zadar has stronger native element IMO but it exist in Split and Dubrovnik too ofc in Sibenik the least

Yes I am aware of this, but my point is when people think of Dalmatian Croats they think of the people who live there, not just the chakavian minority, you can't just dismiss the massive majority population and judge the entire region based on your isolated island populations, these "native" people don't represent the whole region, they are a tiny minority.

Btw, in terms of Bosniaks/Bosniak Croat plotting etc, this is an example of where I've seen them plot https://i.imgur.com/P6I7Tcm.jpg

[Jana]

Yes I am aware of this, but my point is when people think of Dalmatian Croats they think of the people who live there, not just the chakavian minority, you can't just dismiss the massive majority population and judge the entire region based on your isolated island populations, these "native" people don't represent the whole region, they are a tiny minority.

Btw, in terms of Bosniaks/Bosniak Croat plotting etc, this is an example of where I've seen them plot https://i.imgur.com/P6I7Tcm.jpg

It show Bosniaks between Croats and Serbs and that is what I claimed.

[Ayetooey]

It show Bosniaks between Croats and Serbs and that is what I claimed.

You said Bosniaks, Bosnian Croats and Western Serbs plot together on average, this map suggests otherwise. If you have maps with different results feel free to share them, this one may be inaccurate but it's one example.

[Jana]

You said Bosniaks, Bosnian Croats and Western Serbs plot together on average, this map suggests otherwise. If you have maps with different results feel free to share them, this one may be inaccurate but it's one example.

These are useful samples but amateur after all. Open west balkan study and check admixture charts it show almost identical for all 3 nations in BiH. Differences are not very big ...

[Carpatz]

the first Vlachs arrived in Moldova in the 13th century - they infiltrated the land in great numbers over about two centuries and then slowly assimilated the local Slavs, Germans, Hungarians and Cumans over the next centuries. at the beginning of the 20th century there were still hundreds of villages not speaking Romanian but Ukrainian (Ruthenian), Russian (Lipovan), Hungarian (Csango) and German. Vlachs imposed their language in whole Moldova only after the creation of the fake Romanian state in the 1850s, that annexed the region. Vlachs are not indigenous to Moldova and genetically they count for less than half the ancestry of random Moldovans and for no ancestry for all the non-Romanian Moldovans (Ruthenian, Csango, Lipovan, German, Cuman etc)

Nice historical revisionism. The state of Romania came to be after a Moldovan ruler was elected by both ethnic Romanian states, Wallachia and Moldova. There was no forceful annexation involved. You give Lipovans as an example of people native to the region when they settled barely in the 18th century after they were booted from Russia for religious reasons. Hungarians and Germans being native to the region is laughable. Of course you know these things, but you're full of hate for the people of the country you live in, so you feel the need to spread as many lies as possible.

[Pribislav]

A lot of modern day Bosnian-Serbs have recent roots in Herzegovina and Montenegro btw, I would guess they plot differently to Bosniaks and Bosnian-Croats.

Y dna of Herzegovinian Serbs is almost identical as y dna of Bosniaks. Herzegovinian Serbs in y dna are quite more similar to Bosniaks than to Montenegrins.

Y dna of Herzegovinian Serbs - sample 328

https://forum.krstarica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=487276&d=1523881742



Y dna of Bosniaks from Bosnia and Herzegovina (without Sandžaklis) - sample 273

I2 - 43,4%
R1a - 15%
E1b - 11,2%
I1 - 7,9%
J2a - 6,4%

For more details look here https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253441-Bosnian-Muslims-Y-DNA-results-(273-sample)

[Mingle]

Nice historical revisionism. The state of Romania came to be after a Moldovan ruler was elected by both ethnic Romanian states, Wallachia and Moldova. There was no forceful annexation involved. You give Lipovans as an example of people native to the region when they settled barely in the 18th century after they were booted from Russia for religious reasons. Hungarians and Germans being native to the region is laughable. Of course you know these things, but you're full of hate for the people of the country you live in, so you feel the need to spread as many lies as possible.

Do you know when Vlachs/Romanians first arrived in Moldova? The Csangos/Hungarians are said to have been there since at least the 12th century.

[Mingle]

two former work mates were Csango from Csango villages (so they were not people claiming Csango ancestry but came from communities where the dialect is spoken - I visited one of them in his village and heard it myself). both blondish and not looking very Romanian.

one of my best friends is Csango, he looks like a Swedish-Finnish combo.

I'll send photos in PM.

but overall they may look less Central European or less Germanic than Hungarians, of course, since they were never Central Europeans in the first place. and some mixing may have occurred, but I would not call them straight Vlachs

Here are the results of a Csango and Szekler. Saw this posted by RN97 in a different thread.

Csango

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.64
2 North_Atlantic 26.96
3 West_Med 13.81
4 East_Med 10.9
5 West_Asian 7.1
6 Red_Sea 3.8
7 Siberian 3.06
8 Amerindian 1.43
9 East_Asian 1.4
10 South_Asian 0.8
11 Northeast_African 0.72
12 Oceanian 0.38

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.81
2 Serbian 6.22
3 Hungarian 6.35
4 Croatian 7.08
5 Romanian 9.75
6 Austrian 10.14
7 East_German 11.05
8 Bulgarian 12.27
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.32
10 South_Polish 13.11
11 Ukrainian 13.84
12 West_German 16.13
13 Polish 16.46
14 Southwest_Russian 17.22
15 South_Dutch 17.43
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.69
17 French 18.5
18 Russian_Smolensk 18.72
19 Tatar 18.73
20 Estonian_Polish 19.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Kargopol_Russian + 46.5% Tuscan @ 3.12
2 55.1% Finnish + 44.9% West_Sicilian @ 3.35
3 54.3% Estonian + 45.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.47
4 50.5% Southwest_Finnish + 49.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.5
5 56% Finnish + 44% East_Sicilian @ 3.51
6 52.3% Greek_Thessaly + 47.7% Finnish @ 3.52
7 58.7% Southwest_Finnish + 41.3% East_Sicilian @ 3.52
8 58.7% Finnish + 41.3% South_Italian @ 3.53
9 81.8% Serbian + 18.2% East_Finnish @ 3.54
10 57.9% Southwest_Finnish + 42.1% Central_Greek @ 3.61
11 53% Estonian + 47% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.62
12 51.2% North_Italian + 48.8% Erzya @ 3.63
13 53.8% East_Finnish + 46.2% West_Sicilian @ 3.65
14 52.5% East_Finnish + 47.5% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.67
15 55.2% Finnish + 44.8% Central_Greek @ 3.68
16 53.9% Finnish + 46.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.68
17 70.6% Romanian + 29.4% Finnish @ 3.68
18 50.1% Tuscan + 49.9% East_Finnish @ 3.73
19 81.3% Serbian + 18.7% Finnish @ 3.74
20 80% Serbian + 20% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.76

Szekler

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.75
2 North_Atlantic 24.83
3 West_Med 14
4 West_Asian 8.97
5 East_Med 8.79
6 South_Asian 4.13
7 Red_Sea 3.27
8 Siberian 2.18
9 Amerindian 1.43
10 East_Asian 0.66

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 4.19
2 Croatian 6
3 Hungarian 7.96
4 Serbian 8.55
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.52
6 Romanian 11.39
7 Austrian 11.79
8 South_Polish 12
9 East_German 12.02
10 Ukrainian 12.23
11 Bulgarian 13.59
12 Polish 15.05
13 Southwest_Russian 15.46
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.65
15 Russian_Smolensk 16.95
16 Estonian_Polish 17.58
17 Tatar 17.69
18 Kargopol_Russian 18.21
19 Belorussian 18.37
20 West_German 18.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.2% Moldavian + 3.8% Chamar @ 2.96
2 95.8% Moldavian + 4.2% Uttar_Pradesh @ 2.98
3 96% Moldavian + 4% Chenchu @ 2.99
4 96.2% Moldavian + 3.8% Sakilli @ 3
5 95.9% Moldavian + 4.1% Kol @ 3.01
6 96% Moldavian + 4% North_Kannadi @ 3.03
7 96.2% Moldavian + 3.8% Piramalai @ 3.03
8 96.1% Moldavian + 3.9% Dusadh @ 3.04
9 96.1% Moldavian + 3.9% Kurumba @ 3.05
10 95.8% Moldavian + 4.2% Dharkar @ 3.06
11 95.4% Moldavian + 4.6% Bangladeshi @ 3.06
12 95.8% Moldavian + 4.2% Kanjar @ 3.06
13 95.1% Moldavian + 4.9% Brahmin_UP @ 3.08
14 96.3% Moldavian + 3.7% Austroasiatic_Ho @ 3.08
15 96.2% Moldavian + 3.8% Velamas @ 3.11
16 95.5% Moldavian + 4.5% Kshatriya @ 3.12
17 95.6% Moldavian + 4.4% Gujarati @ 3.17
18 88.7% Croatian + 11.3% Afghan_Tadjik @ 3.22
19 90.9% Croatian + 9.1% Burusho @ 3.35
20 89.4% Croatian + 10.6% Aghan_Hazara @ 3.35

Here's a PCA (think it was made by Peterski) that includes some Romanian regional samples:

https://i.imgur.com/5wUn52W.png

[Carpatz]

Do you know when Vlachs/Romanians first arrived in Moldova? The Csangos/Hungarians are said to have been there since at least the 12th century.

There's nothing recorded that suggests a mass immigration of Romanians to Moldova and a displacement of natives.

The earliest record is in the 11th century, when a Viking by the name of Rodfos was killed in the area of Moldova by Vlachs who supposedly betrayed him. In 1164, Byzantine emperor Andronikos I Komnenos was captured by Vlachs in Moldova on his way to Kiev. In 1257, the Vlachs in Moldova, which were named "Bolohoveni" in the Hypatian Chronicle, were defeated by the Ruthenians. Shortly after, the region of Moldova was occupied by the Hungarian Kingdom. Later, a Vlach noble from Maramures named Bogdan had fallen out with his liege, the Hungarian king, so he crossed the Carpathians and took control of the region, founding the medieval kingdom of Moldavia.

[Pribislav]

Vlachs are recorded first time in history in area between Kastoria and Prespa lake (northern Greece) in year 965.

[Mingle]

Vlachs are recorded first time in history in area between Kastoria and Prespa lake (northern Greece) in year 965.According to Wikipedia, Byzantine historiographer Theophylact Simocatta wrote about a people called "Blachernae" in the 7th century in reference to 6th century historical data.

But the history of Romance-speakers in Eastern Europe is much longer than that. They were just called by another name before the name "Vlach" got popular.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Nurzat]

Nice historical revisionism. The state of Romania came to be after a Moldovan ruler was elected by both ethnic Romanian states, Wallachia and Moldova. There was no forceful annexation involved. You give Lipovans as an example of people native to the region when they settled barely in the 18th century after they were booted from Russia for religious reasons. Hungarians and Germans being native to the region is laughable. Of course you know these things, but you're full of hate for the people of the country you live in, so you feel the need to spread as many lies as possible.

Moldova was annexed by Wallachia - people died in the streets of Iași shot dead by Romanian Army following annexation. of course at official level they united the regions but the people of Moldova was against it, it was the 1848 wave of nationalism that plagued the views of the boyars that studied in France and brought that shitty ideology back home, like feminists do today importing this shit from the West. I thought you were from Moldova region - are you such a Moldovan that likes to kiss the feet of the Aromanian Wallachians?

I am in favour of Moldovan independence, that's all, I have no hatred towards Romanians, and only stating the true historic facts doesn't mean more than saying how things were. I think the Moldovan Federation (Moldova + Bucovina + Danube Delta), Transylvanian Federation (Erdély, Máramaros, Székelyföld, Banat, Partium) and Romania (Oltenia + Wallachia + Dobrudja south of the Delta) can be good friends and partners at country level.

[Mingle]

Moldova was annexed by Wallachia - people died in the streets of Iași shot dead by Romanian Army following annexation. of course at official level they united the regions but the people of Moldova was against it, it was the 1848 wave of nationalism that plagued the views of the boyars that studied in France and brought that shitty ideology back home, like feminists do today importing this shit from the West. I thought you were from Moldova region - are you such a Moldovan that likes to kiss the feet of the Aromanian Wallachians?

I am in favour of Moldovan independence, that's all, I have no hatred towards Romanians, and only stating the true historic facts doesn't mean more than saying how things were. I think the Moldovan Federation (Moldova + Bucovina + Danube Delta), Transylvanian Federation (Erdély, Máramaros, Székelyföld, Banat, Partium) and Romania (Oltenia + Wallachia + Dobrudja south of the Delta) can be good friends and partners at country level.

Why are you in favor of Moldovan independence? What's wrong with staying part of Romania? By the way, how come you didn't include Bujak as part of the Moldovan Federation?

In another thread, I recall you saying that Ukraine and Belarus should join Russia. How does it make sense for all that land to belong to Russia but for Romania (which is smaller than Ukraine) under its current borders to be "unjust"? Or did you change your opinion on Pan-East Slavism since then?

Didn't you say before that Partium should join Hungary?

[Carpatz]

Moldova was annexed by Wallachia - people died in the streets of Iași shot dead by Romanian Army following annexation. of course at official level they united the regions but the people of Moldova was against it, it was the 1848 wave of nationalism that plagued the views of the boyars that studied in France and brought that shitty ideology back home, like feminists do today importing this shit from the West. I thought you were from Moldova region - are you such a Moldovan that likes to kiss the feet of the Aromanian Wallachians?

I am in favour of Moldovan independence, that's all, I have no hatred towards Romanians, and only stating the true historic facts doesn't mean more than saying how things were. I think the Moldovan Federation (Moldova + Bucovina + Danube Delta), Transylvanian Federation (Erdély, Máramaros, Székelyföld, Banat, Partium) and Romania (Oltenia + Wallachia + Dobrudja south of the Delta) can be good friends and partners at country level.

I'm afraid your views are extremely fringe and not shared by many. Ukraine not being a historical state but a post-Soviet invention, I think we should partition it between Russia, Romania and Poland. What do you think about that?

[Leto]

I'm afraid your views are extremely fringe and not shared by many. Ukraine not being a historical state but a post-Soviet invention, I think we should partition it between Russia, Romania and Poland. What do you think about that?
Soviet, not post-Soviet. The Bolsheviks created the state in its current borders.

[Carpatz]

Why are you in favor of Moldovan independence?

If you ask anyone from the Moldova region (Eastern Romania) if they want such a thing, they'd look at you the same way someone from Bavaria would if you asked them if they wanted Bavarian independence. Eskimo is an ethnic Ukrainian who puts his nose in affairs that aren't his.

[Mingle]

If you ask anyone from the Moldova region (Eastern Romania) if they want such a thing, they'd look at you the same way someone from Bavaria would if you asked them if they wanted Bavarian independence.

Yeah, that's why I was curious to hear what he was gonna say. Though in all honesty, its likely that this isn't his serious opinion.

[Leto]

@Eskimo is half Romanian, Romanian-born, speaks Romanian, has a Romanian passport. Why can't he talk about his country? Ukrainians are native to that part of Romania too.

[Carpatz]

@Eskimo is half Romanian, Romanian-born, speaks Romanian, has a Romanian passport. Why can't he talk about his country? Ukrainians are native to that part of Romania too.

At this point I don't care what he really is since what he says about himself is inconsistent. The point is that everything that comes from him related to Romania is passive aggressive drivel. You'd be annoyed too if you were from a small country that people don't know many things about, and had a butthurt retard on a dedicated crusade to spread disinformation.

[Leto]

At this point I don't care what he really is since what he says about himself is inconsistent. The point is that everything that comes from him related to Romania is passive aggressive drivel. You'd be irritated too if you were from a small country that people don't know many things about, and had a butthurt retard on a dedicated crusade to spread disinformation.
I think he could move to the Rep of Moldova. With knowledge of Romanian and Ukrainian he would fit there just fine. However they are super poor and massively go to work in Russia and even as far as Portugal.

[Nurzat]

I think he could move to the Rep of Moldova. With knowledge of Romanian and Ukrainian he would fit there just fine. However they are super poor and massively go to work in Russia and even as far as Portugal.

when I say Moldova I usually refer to the region in Romania, not the Republic. I think we could be an independent state within the European Union. I am not a Soviet enthusiast or Russian enthusiast. Moldova the country and Ukraine are too poor and violent to wish to unite to them now. but Moldova from Romania would be way better alone than inside Romania, because Romanians do not invest any money from the taxes in the region. we won't have highways unless we do them. we are kept in a poor state by the southern mobsters. Carpatz is a Romanian nationalist that praises Nazis like Zelea Codreanu - his views are even less popular in Moldova region than my support for Moldovan autonomy or independence.

so I don't consider uniting the two Moldovas in the first phase, we need to rapidly grow economically.

[Pribislav]

According to Wikipedia, Byzantine historiographer Theophylact Simocatta wrote about a people called "Blachernae" in the 7th century in reference to 6th century historical data.

But the history of Romance-speakers in Eastern Europe is much longer than that. They were just called by another name before the name "Vlach" got popular.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

In Herzegovina in the middle age many clans were recorded as "vlachs."

Map of Herzegovinian "vlachs"
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Map_of_medieval_Vlach_families_in_Herzegovina.jpg

Herzegovinian "vlachs" were not Latin speakers, they were "vlachs" by social status and lifestyle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebri

In medieval Serbia "vlach" was synonym for sheperd.

Today we know haplogroups of some Herzegovinian clans which were recorded as "vlachs" in the middle age:

Predojevići - R1a-Z280 and I2-PH908 (Orthodox)
Nikšići - I2-PH908 (Orthodox)
Banjani - N2-P189.2 (Orthodox)
Burmazi - probably R1a-M458 (Orthodox)
Ugarci - R1b-U152 (Orthodox)
Mirilovići - I2-CTS10228 (Orthodox)
Drobnjaci - I1-P109 (Orthodox)
Krmpotići - I2-PH908 (Catholics)
Maleševci - I2-PH908 (Orthodox)
Kriči - J2b1-M205 (Orthodox)
Vlahovići - I2-PH908 (Orthodox)

Only Kriči were Latin speaking clan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči
In 13th and 14th century members of Kriči clan had non-Slavic names. Since 15th century Kriči have Slavic names. Banned Albanian user Dema originated from Vlach Kriči clan. Drobnjaci in early 15th century came from central Bosnia to Durmitor mountain in Old Herzegovina and expelled Kriči. Ancestors of Dema migrated to Albania and joined to Albanian Beriša clan (E-V13). In 18th century Ottoman brought Dema's ancestors to Kosovo.

[Carpatz]

when I say Moldova I usually refer to the region in Romania, not the Republic. I think we could be an independent state within the European Union. I am not a Soviet enthusiast or Russian enthusiast. Moldova the country and Ukraine are too poor and violent to wish to unite to them now. but Moldova from Romania would be way better alone than inside Romania, because Romanians do not invest any money from the taxes in the region. we won't have highways unless we do them. we are kept in a poor state by the southern mobsters. Carpatz is a Romanian nationalist that praises Nazis like Zelea Codreanu - his views are even less popular in Moldova region than my support for Moldovan autonomy or independence.

so I don't consider uniting the two Moldovas in the first phase, we need to rapidly grow economically.

Why are you such a compulsive liar? Moldovan separatists within Romania are completely non-existent, because there's no Moldovan ethnic identity west of the Prut. Corruption is an issue yes, but that's not a reason to carve up a country into a million entities. It's ironic how you complain about nationalists when earlier you were justifying splitting the country over minute differences in regional genetics. This is autism beyond any Stormfront Nazi.

[Aspirin]

Why are you such a compulsive liar? Moldovan separatists within Romania are completely non-existent, because there's no Moldovan ethnic identity west of the Prut.

In the past anti unionist ideas was strong here.

[Carpatz]

In the past anti unionist ideas was strong here.

Maybe in Bessarabia, but never in Romanian Moldova

[Aspirin]

Maybe in Bessarabia, but never in Romanian Moldova

Nope. Only in Romanian Moldova.

https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%C8%99carea_separatist%C4%83_din_Moldova
https://cultural.bzi.ro/miscarea-antiunionista-din-moldova-9668
https://romanialibera.ro/aldine/history/unirea-face-puterea--puterea-centrala--despre-cealata-fata-a-momentului-24-ianuarie-1859-364914
https://www.lovendal.ro/wp52/revolta-sangeroasa-de-la-iasi-din-3-aprilie-1866-despre-care-cartile-oficiale-de-istorie-au-pastrat-secretul-de-ce/

[Mingle]

From most to least Slavic influence:

1. Slovenia
2. Croatia
3. Bosnia & Herzegovina
4. Serbia
5. Romania
6. Montenegro
7. Bulgaria
8. Republic of Macedonia
9. Greek Mainland
10. Albania
11. Greek Islands
12. South Italy

Northeast Italy (Triveneto) also has some Slavic influence, but I wouldn't know where to rank it.

[Token]

Bosnia. I consider Croatia and Slovenia East-Central European countries.

[ixulescu]

Nope. Only in Romanian Moldova.


There used to be anti-unionist movements in Moldova for sure.
But they were mostly payed by Russians and Austro-Hungarians. Neither wanted a unified Romania, because Romania had legitimate claims on their territory.

The unionist movement was much stronger though. Moldova was out of options 150 years ago. It was either be part of Romania or an impoverished Russian gubernia. It's true that today Romanian Moldova gets much less investment than the rest of Romania and it's fucking maddening. But the major part of this investment is foreign, and the government is too weak to dictate where this money goes.

[ixulescu]

From most to least Slavic influence:

1. Slovenia
2. Croatia
3. Bosnia & Herzegovina
4. Serbia
5. Romania
6. Montenegro
7. Bulgaria
8. Republic of Macedonia
9. Greek Mainland
10. Albania
11. Greek Islands
12. South Italy

Northeast Italy (Triveneto) also has some Slavic influence, but I wouldn't know where to rank it.

good post overall, but I would put Croatia first

[Carpatz]

Nope. Only in Romanian Moldova.

https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%C8%99carea_separatist%C4%83_din_Moldova
https://cultural.bzi.ro/miscarea-antiunionista-din-moldova-9668
https://romanialibera.ro/aldine/history/unirea-face-puterea--puterea-centrala--despre-cealata-fata-a-momentului-24-ianuarie-1859-364914
https://www.lovendal.ro/wp52/revolta-sangeroasa-de-la-iasi-din-3-aprilie-1866-despre-care-cartile-oficiale-de-istorie-au-pastrat-secretul-de-ce/

Of course there were a few boyars who weren't happy with having to cede power to the new monarchy, but this wasn't a popular movement.

[pelikarski]

From most to least Slavic influence:

1. Slovenia
2. Croatia
3. Bosnia & Herzegovina
4. Serbia
5. Romania
6. Montenegro
7. Bulgaria
8. Republic of Macedonia
9. Greek Mainland
10. Albania
11. Greek Islands
12. South Italy

Northeast Italy (Triveneto) also has some Slavic influence, but I wouldn't know where to rank it.
Based on what Serb users on this forum say, Bulgarians should look more Slavic than Montenegrins

[Sikeliot]

From most to least Slavic influence:

1. Slovenia
2. Croatia
3. Bosnia & Herzegovina
4. Serbia
5. Romania
6. Montenegro
7. Bulgaria
8. Republic of Macedonia
9. Greek Mainland
10. Albania
11. Greek Islands
12. South Italy

Northeast Italy (Triveneto) also has some Slavic influence, but I wouldn't know where to rank it.


I'd put it in this order:

Slovenia
Croatia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Montenegro
Romania
Macedonia
Bulgaria
Greek mainland
Albania
Greek islands
South Italy

Not sure where NE Italy goes but I would imagine if you mean overall East European affinity, it would be before Bulgaria. If actual Slavic DNA from Slavic speaking ancestors, then probably right after mainland Greece but before Albania.

[brennus dux gallorum]

I'd put it in this order:

Slovenia
Croatia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Montenegro
Romania
Macedonia
Bulgaria
Greek mainland
Albania
Greek islands
South Italy

Not sure where NE Italy goes but I would imagine if you mean overall East European affinity, it would be before Bulgaria. If actual Slavic DNA from Slavic speaking ancestors, then probably right after mainland Greece but before Albania.

South mainland Greece, which makes up half of mainland is not more Slavic mixed than any part of Albania. In fact there are specific areas with significantly less admixture as well

S for the other half, judging by studies that I have seen yes, it likely is more Slavic mixed

[Sikeliot]

South mainland Greece, which makes up half of mainland is not more Slavic mixed than any part of Albania. In fact there are specific areas with significantly less admixture as well

S for the other half, judging by studies that I have seen yes, it likely is more Slavic mixed


Albanians are closer to South Italians on their oracles than Macedonia/Thessaly/Thrace are. Therefore, I would assume Peloponnese and Albania are not that different with regard to amount of Slavic, apart from outlier regions like Mani and Tsakonia which may be similar to Cyclades or something.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Excluding south slavs, from most to least

Romania
Friuli
South Albania
Northern Greece
North Albania
Kosovo
South Greece
Greek Islands

[Kelmendasi]

Excluding south slavs, from most to least

Romania
Friuli
South Albania
Northern Greece
North Albania
Kosovo
South Greece
Greek Islands
South Albania isn't as Slavicized as people think. Culturally there is no notable Slavic input, the only notable thing genetically is the higher I2a1b.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Albanians are closer to South Italians on their oracles than Macedonia/Thessaly/Thrace are. Therefore, I would assume Peloponnese and Albania are not that different with regard to amount of Slavic, apart from outlier regions like Mani and Tsakonia which may be similar to Cyclades or something.

Peloponnese and sterea (known as central Greece, but it's part of South) are equally to slightly less Slavic mixed than Albania, and make up half of mainland population

As for North yes, they likely are more Slavic mixed than north Albania, but equally Slavic mixed as south Albania

Anyway these differences are quite small

[Tauromachos]

Albanians are closer to South Italians on their oracles than Macedonia/Thessaly/Thrace are. Therefore, I would assume Peloponnese and Albania are not that different with regard to amount of Slavic, apart from outlier regions like Mani and Tsakonia which may be similar to Cyclades or something.

Pelponnesians alltogether are closer to South Italians than Albanians

And don't start to post some Northshifted Peloponnesians here to have a point

Its clear what i mean it should be obvious that more South shifted Peloponnesians like those from Deep Mani are closer to South Italians than
Albanians are.

Thus Peloponnese as a whole is not the same with Albania but in between Albania and South Italy
The Mainland Greeks closest to Albanians are Epirotes obviously

[Sikeliot]

Thus Peloponnese as a whole is not the same with Albania but in between Albania and South Italy
The Mainland Greeks closest to Albanians are Epirotes obviously

No, this is false. Peloponnese are close to Albania, and simply further from Bulgaria. There is no comparison between most Peloponnesians and the more Semitic parts of southern Italy.

[brennus dux gallorum]

South Albania isn't as Slavicized as people think. Culturally there is no notable Slavic input, the only notable thing genetically is the higher I2a1b.

What I have noticed among Albanians who live here, those who come from South are, in a weird way more alpine looking than those from North. They give me the impression that they are similar to Western thessalians

[brennus dux gallorum]

Pelponnesians alltogether are closer to South Italians than Albanians

And don't start to post some Northshifted Peloponnesians here to have a point

Its clear what i mean it should be obvious that more South shifted Peloponnesians like those from Deep Mani are closer to South Italians than
Albanians are.

Thus Peloponnese as a whole is not the same with Albania but in between Albania and South Italy
The Mainland Greeks closest to Albanians are Epirotes obviously
If compared to Italy, peloponnesians score (and usually overlap with) central Italian regions like abruzzo, not that much with deep south

Nevertheless there are no peloponnesians close to South slavs

[Tauromachos]

If compared to Italy, peloponnesians score (and usually overlap with) central Italian regions like abruzzo, not that much with deep south

No they overlapp with several Italian populations from Center till the Deep South.
More South shifted Peloponnesians can partialy overlapp with Sicilians too but more so with SE Sicily and Apulia than other parts of Sicily




Nevertheless there are no peloponnesians close to South slavs

Exactly

[Sikeliot]

If compared to Italy, peloponnesians score (and usually overlap with) central Italian regions like abruzzo, not that much with deep south

Nevertheless there are no peloponnesians close to South slavs


To me, Peloponnesians range from being a slightly less Slavic version of Epirotes, to being similar to Apulia.

[Tauromachos]

No, this is false. Peloponnese are close to Albania, and simply further from Bulgaria. There is no comparison between most Peloponnesians and the more Semitic parts of southern Italy.

Peloponnesians the South shifted ones are closer to South Italians than Albanians are who are closer to more Northern Italian groups

This has nothing to do with your fucking Semites

[Sikeliot]

Peloponnesians the South shifted ones are closer to South Italians than Albanians are who are closer to more Northern Italian groups

This has nothing to do with your fucking Semites


Maniots and Tsakonians represent a very small part of the Peloponnesian population...

[Tauromachos]

Maniots and Tsakonians represent a very small part of the Peloponnesian population...

Listen

Majority of Albanians when compared to Italian groups are somewhere were Tuscans are this however is not true for Southern or Central Mainland Greeks as a whole they range from being close to Tuscans till South Italians.

The genetically most similar to Albanians are of course Epirotes not Peloponnesians

Common sense should tell that

[Sikeliot]

Listen

Majority of Albanians when compared to Italian groups are somewhere were Tuscans are this however is not true for Southern or Central Mainland Greeks as whole
the range from being close to Tuscans till South Italians.

The genetically most similar to Albanians are of course Epirotes not Peloponnesians

Common sense should tell that


Peloponnesians barely differ from Thessalians, Epirotes, etc. They are not like Calabrians. Apart from Maniots and Tsakonians they aren't even like Syracusans, Apulians or Trapanese.

[Tauromachos]

Peloponnesians barely differ from Thessalians, Epirotes, etc. They are not like Calabrians. Apart from Maniots and Tsakonians they aren't even like Syracusans, Apulians or Trapanese.

They are intermediate between Thessalians,Epirotes and South Italians

Its not true that the Mainland of Greece as a whole is that North shifted i have seen this been discussed on other fora like Eupedia and they say
something different than you say

Mainland Greeks are not all on par with Tuscans but range from Tuscans till South Italians and Sicilians are not entirely excluded
from overlapping with them


But what to expect from a Jew

[Joso]

Greeks, because of Slavicization