Eurogenes K8 ranking for Southern Europeans: WHG, ANE and Near East.

[Sikeliot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml


Observations... southeastern Spain and Balearics do have slightly more Near Eastern and less WHG than the rest of Spain.


Near Eastern:
Cyprus: 78.02
Sephardi: 72.46
South Italian: 69.32
Ashkenazi: 68.10
Central Sicily: 67.54
East Sicily: 67.01
West Sicily: 66.09
Abruzzo: 65.24
Sardinian: 64.69
Central Greece: 63.32
Greece composite: 63.31
Tuscany: 60.78
Greece_Thessaly: 59.60
North Italian: 56.62
Murcia: 53.57
Balearics: 53.27
Canarias: 53.19
Andalusia: 52.69
Castilla La Mancha: 52.17
Castilla y Leon: 51.57
Extremadura: 51.30
Aragon: 51.30
Valencia: 50.85
Galicia: 50.18
Cantabria: 49.78
Catalonia: 49.50
Basque Country: 47.37
French: 45.65




Western Hunter-Gatherer:
Basque Country: 44.92
French: 41.66
Cantabria: 40.75
Aragon: 40.23
Catalonia: 40.14
Valencia: 39.91
Castilla La Mancha: 38.78
Castilla y Leon: 38.11
Extremadura: 37.67
Andalusia: 37.28
Balearics: 36.76
Murcia: 35.38
Canarias: 34.84
Sardinia: 34.54
North Italy: 34.34
Tuscany: 29.25
Greece_Thessaly: 28.04
Greece composite: 25.43
Central Greece: 24.42
Abruzzo: 23.66
West Sicily: 22.56
Eastern Sicily: 21.52
Central Sicily: 21.14
South Italy: 19.20
Ashkenazi: 18.55
Sephardi: 15.51
Cyprus: 11.37



Ancient North Eurasian:
Greek_Thessaly: 10.76
Central Greece: 10.55
Greek composite: 9.89
Abruzzo: 9.29
Tuscany: 8.75
Ashkenazi: 8.44
North Italy: 8.23
West Sicily: 8.09
South Italy: 8.08
Cyprus: 7.95
Catalonia: 7.73
East Sicily: 7.72
Balearics: 7.57
Central Sicily: 7.52
Extremadura: 7.38
Valencia: 7.34
Sephardi: 7.34
Cantabria: 7.30
Galicia: 7.18
Andalusia: 6.85
Castilla La Mancha: 6.85
Castilla y Leon: 6.84
Aragon: 6.80
Basque Country: 6.72
Murcia: 6.13
Canarias: 5.02
Sardinia: 0.03

[Longbowman]

ANE is Ancient North Eurasian ;)

[Black Wolf]

The last component that you list here is not called ''Ancestral North European''. It is actually called Ancient North Eurasian.

[Sikeliot]

Ok, it is now fixed.

[Nurzat]

are they different from the ANE K7 that we can run on GedMATCH? there I'm 55% WHG-UHG, 25% ENF, 16% ANE, 2.5% East_Eurasian. no calculator for K8 yet

[Mark]

Although negligible, I'm surprised that the S. Italian population has more Near East than the Sicilian reference groups used.

[Longbowman]

are they different from the ANE K7 that we can run on GedMATCH? there I'm 55% WHG-UHG, 25% ENF, 16% ANE, 2.5% East_Eurasian. no calculator for K8 yet

They are different, yes.

To get your K8 results, mail Eurogenes and pay them $20.

[Sikeliot]

Although negligible, I'm surprised that the S. Italian population has more Near East than the Sicilian reference groups used.

"South Italy" on a lot of these runs means Calabria. Minor as it might be, there was almost no recent northern influences into Calabria, and as such they are even more Near Eastern than Sicilians.

Interesting thing is Central Sicily here comes out more Near Eastern and less WHG than any other part of Sicily, but phenotypically they seem lighter than the rest of the island to me.

From my understanding on this run, "East Sicily" is Syracuse, "West Sicily" is Trapani, and "Central Sicily" I have heard is actually Caltanissetta or Palermo, not Enna. This would make sense.

[Longbowman]

"South Italy" on a lot of these runs means Calabria. Minor as it might be, there was almost no recent northern influences into Calabria, and as such they are even more Near Eastern than Sicilians.

Interesting thing is Central Sicily here comes out more Near Eastern and less WHG than any other part of Sicily, but phenotypically they seem lighter than the rest of the island to me.

Actually I made this table and I can tell you the population was enumerated as 'South Italian,' not specifically Calabria.

[Sikeliot]

Actually I made this table and I can tell you the population was enumerated as 'South Italian,' not specifically Calabria.

I forget who but someone else told me it was Calabria. It is definitely not Apulia, because Apulians on 23andme plot nearer mainland Greeks, and not as far south as Sicilians.

[Bagot]

Although negligible, I'm surprised that the S. Italian population has more Near East than the Sicilian reference groups used.

Agreed. This proves that choice of sample must still be improved. Margin of error on small percentage can still be very high.

[Sikeliot]

Agreed. This proves that choice of sample must still be improved. Margin of error on small percentage can still be very high.

I think it shows there is minor Lombard or Norman in Sicily and that without it, they'd be more like the South Italy sample (which, to the best of my knowledge is Calabria). Apulians I have seen results for are more Greek-like.

[Longbowman]

Agreed. This proves that choice of sample must still be improved. Margin of error on small percentage can still be very high.

I don't think it's that, mate. In total 30 Sicilians and 18 Southern Italian were sampled. The results aren't really surprising.

[Sikeliot]

In general on these samples, this is what each usually means, from what I have been told.

"Greek Islands" = Dodecanese
"West Sicily" = Trapani
"East Sicily" = Syracuse
"South Italy" = Calabria

Dodecanese and Calabria always come out close together, and then Cretans and Sicilians a marginal amount north shifted from both. Then comes all of the mainland Greeks, other Italians etc. The same is true on 23andme.

[Argentano]

what is this near eastern? is this very ancient? i dont get how English are 40% Near Eastern

[Nurzat]

so all Mediterraneans are 50 to 70% Near Eastern, 20 to 40% Western Hunter-Gatherer and 5 to 10% Ancient North Eurasian (minus Sardinia, which has none)

also excluding French, Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Cypriot scores, for obvious reasons (too Northern, too Eastern, too mixed)

[Sikeliot]

what is this near eastern? is this very ancient? i dont get how English are 40% Near Eastern

Neolithic.

[Longbowman]

what is this near eastern? is this very ancient? i dont get how English are 40% Near Eastern

Mainly Neolithic, recent papers have shown the Indo-Europeans also carried a small amount.

[Bagot]

I think it shows there is minor Lombard or Norman in Sicily and that without it, they'd be more like the South Italy sample (which, to the best of my knowledge is Calabria). Apulians I have seen results for are more Greek-like.

You're right, Sicily was partially repopulated and this could be a reason. If the South Italy sample is from Calabria is obvious that S. Italian population has more Near East than the Sicilian reference groups, because it works to me that Calabria can have more NE than Sicily. Anyway Calabria I don't think is a good proxy for all south Italy, because is closer to Sicily than anything else in my opinion (and Calabria wasn't repopulated like Sicily).

[Bagot]

what is this near eastern? is this very ancient? i dont get how English are 40% Near Eastern

Neolithic farmers mostly.

[Bagot]

In general on these samples, this is what each usually means, from what I have been told.

"Greek Islands" = Dodecanese
"West Sicily" = Trapani
"East Sicily" = Syracuse
"South Italy" = Calabria

Dodecanese and Calabria always come out close together, and then Cretans and Sicilians a marginal amount north shifted from both. Then comes all of the mainland Greeks, other Italians etc. The same is true on 23andme.

Is there any sample from Crete?

[Sikeliot]

You're right, Sicily was partially repopulated and this could be a reason. If the South Italy sample is from Calabria is obvious that S. Italian population has more Near East than the Sicilian reference groups, because it works to me that Calabria can have more NE than Sicily. Anyway Calabria I don't think is a good proxy for all south Italy, because is closer to Sicily than anything else in my opinion (and Calabria wasn't repopulated like Sicily).

But as we see, they are very similar -- the South Italy and Sicily samples. The difference is minor, so repopulation must not have been as large as we think. Consider also that the primary repopulation of Sicily came from the southern Italian mainland. There are some parts of Sicily I have seen have similar results to Calabria. Messina, and part of Palermo.

I don't think any part of Sicily or Calabria would score like mainland Greece. Apulia would, I think.

[Longbowman]

You're right, Sicily was partially repopulated and this could be a reason. If the South Italy sample is from Calabria is obvious that S. Italian population has more Near East than the Sicilian reference groups, because it works to me that Calabria can have more NE than Sicily. Anyway Calabria I don't think is a good proxy for all south Italy, because is closer to Sicily than anything else in my opinion (and Calabria wasn't repopulated like Sicily).

Again, I put it together, it's pure speculation to say 'South Italian' = Calabria.

[Bagot]

I don't think it's that, mate. In total 30 Sicilians and 18 Southern Italian were sampled. The results aren't really surprising.

Well, that Sicily can have less NE than Campania and Apulia is surprising in my opinion.

[Sikeliot]

Is there any sample from Crete?

When Crete is a reference sample on some calculators, Sicilians score it second, or some even score it before Sicilian. Which means they are very similar.

[Sikeliot]

Well, that Sicily can have less NE than Campania and Apulia is surprising in my opinion.

But they don't. I have seen Apulian results on 23andme and on Dodecad and whatnot, and they score less than both Calabria and Sicily. It only makes sense for South Italy on these runs to be Calabria.

[Longbowman]

Well, that Sicily can have less NE than Campania and Apulia is surprising in my opinion.

Surprising until you examine Sicilian history a little more.

Anyhow, here's my original work, with maps.

Europe (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?154160-Selected-population-averages-for-K8)
The world (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?155723-K8-All-Populations-Spreadsheet)

[Bagot]

Again, I put it together, it's pure speculation to say 'South Italian' = Calabria.

Ok, it's speculation, but does someone know this south Italian sample where comes from?

[Sikeliot]

Surprising until you examine Sicilian history a little more.

Except no. Apulia and Campania would not score more Near East than Sicily. They don't on 23andme, and individual results I have seen on Dodecad also do not.

Calabria is the only region of southern Italy with such scores. Apulians are shifted toward mainland Greece.

[Longbowman]

Ok, it's speculation, but does someone know this south Italian sample where comes from?

You'd have to ask Davidski over at Eurogenes or ABF.

[Sikeliot]

Ok, it's speculation, but does someone know this south Italian sample where comes from?

It was said in one of the threads either here or on Forumbiodiversity that it is Calabria.

[Bagot]

Surprising until you examine Sicilian history a little more.

Anyhow, here's my original work, with maps.

Europe (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?154160-Selected-population-averages-for-K8)
The world (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?155723-K8-All-Populations-Spreadsheet)

Sorry but I agree with Sikeliot


But they don't. I have seen Apulian results on 23andme and on Dodecad and whatnot, and they score less than both Calabria and Sicily. It only makes sense for South Italy on these runs to be Calabria.

[Sikeliot]

Sorry but I agree with Sikeliot

Calabria has more Near Eastern than Sicily, but the rest of southern Europe has more North Euro affinity and less Near Eastern than both.

[Alessio]

Actually I made this table and I can tell you the population was enumerated as 'South Italian,' not specifically Calabria.

Don't say that because you'll upset Sikeliot with confronting him with the fact that Sicilians are more 'northern' than Southern Italians are :p

[Sikeliot]

Don't say that because you'll upset Sikeliot with confronting him with the fact that Sicilians are more 'northern' than Southern Italians are :p

It's only like, 2%, hardly anything major. But I told you why. That South Italy sample is very clearly from Calabria.

[Bagot]

Calabria has more Near Eastern than Sicily, but the rest of southern Europe has more North Euro affinity and less Near Eastern than both.

This works well for me: Calabria has more Near East than Sicily due to the migrations from mainland Italy to Sicily.

But that Sicily has less Near East than Apulia, Campania, Basilicata, Molise, Abruzzo sounds very strange to me.

[Sikeliot]

But that Sicily has less Near East than Apulia, Campania, Basilicata, Molise, Abruzzo sounds very strange to me.

Abruzzo, Campania, and Apulia are alike, and as you see, Abruzzo scores less than Sicily.

[Alessio]

It's only like, 2%, hardly anything major. But I told you why. That South Italy sample is very clearly from Calabria.

Okay I'll be fair and share what I know about the samples Davidski uses from Southern Italy - and that is that most samples were indeed from Calabria in the case of the Ancestry Detective service he provided, although we can't know for sure as for the K=8 run.

[Alessio]

Abruzzo, Campania, and Apulia are alike, and as you see, Abruzzo scores less than Sicily.

I won't say so that Southern Italians on the western side of the peninsula look identical to those on the eastern side honestly in part due to the Apennines that divided pocket populations thus changing some of the genetic structure of the 2 regions as for Puglia and Campania

[Sikeliot]

I won't say so that Southern Italians on the western side of the peninsula look very similar to those on the eastern side honestly.

No, but genetically their rates of Northern to Near East are similar from what I see.

Apulia and Abruzzo look a bit more Greek-like (Balkan influence) and Campanians look a bit more western. But all in all, the differences are not huge scale.

[Alessio]

No, but genetically their rates of Northern to Near East are similar from what I see.

Apulia and Abruzzo look a bit more Greek-like (Balkan influence) and Campanians look a bit more western. But all in all, the differences are not huge scale.

''But all in all, the differences are not huge scale''

I agree.

[Bagot]

Abruzzo, Campania, and Apulia are alike, and as you see, Abruzzo scores less than Sicily.

Yes, I have seen right now. I still think that Abruzzo, Campania, and Apulia must be the sample for south Italy and not Calabria. And I guess you agree with me.

Of course we aren't talking about huge differences.

[Alessio]

Yes, I have seen right now. I still think that Abruzzo, Campania, and Apulia must be the sample for south Italy and not Calabria. And I guess you agree with me.

Of course we aren't talking about huge differences.

Definitely not.

I believe that most Southern Italian samples were indeed like Sikeliot suggests extracted from Calabresi and thus makes all Southern Italians together score higher Near Eastern on average.

My guess would be that Campanians, Abruzzesi and Pugliesi alike would score similar to West Sicilians as for Near Eastern.

[Bagot]

Definitely not

Why not? Even between northern Calabria and southern Calabria there are slight differences.



My guess would be that Campanians, Abruzzesi and Pugliesi alike would score similar to West Sicilians as for Near Eastern.

Ok, this is your guess but supported by what?

[Alessio]

Why not? Even between northern Calabria and southern Calabria there are slight differences.

Read again

[Alessio]

Why not? Even between northern Calabria and southern Calabria there are slight differences.




Ok, this is your guess but supported by what?

Supported by what I said a few comments back.

[Bagot]

They would probably be like Greek_Thessaly. (which counts for everything north of the Athens line/central greece region)

Athens is considered central Greece, right? Is there any sample from Crete?

[Bagot]

Supported by what I said a few comments back.

Where? Could you please post me the link to your comment?

[Graham]

The difference in Sicily & South Italy is small. You guys are splitting hairs. Sicily has some more non-Euro ancestry & a little more WHG perhaps being an Island population, which gives a little difference.

The sample size isn't big also, pointed out.

[Bagot]

"Greek" is used for all island samples, so crete is in there. From what Sikeliot has shown so far they seem to be quite southward plotting, quite so compared to all mainlanders.

And yes, Central Greece refers to Peloponnesus and this region. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Greece#/media/File:Location_map_of_CentralGreece_%28Greece%29.sv g) Everything to the north is Greek_Thessaly.

Thx

[Sikeliot]

"Greek" is used for all island samples, so crete is in there. From what Sikeliot has shown so far they seem to be quite southward plotting, quite so compared to all mainlanders.

And yes, Central Greece refers to Peloponnesus and this region. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Greece#/media/File:Location_map_of_CentralGreece_%28Greece%29.sv g) Everything to the north is Greek_Thessaly.


"Greek" on there is an island composite? If so they are less Near Eastern than the Sicilians, and probably also include a lot of the more northern islands like Chios, Samos and Lesbos.

I don't see how anyone could expect Apulia to be more Near Eastern than Sicily. I think the Apulians would be similar to the Central Greece sample.

[lameduck]

even the europeans with the highest Near Eastern Component have combo of WHG+ANE=~30% a combination+percentage that is only possible in Europe by (huge margin) that makes European distinct.

[Thrax]

My results (north Greece):

ANE 10.85
Near Eastern 61.18
WHG 26.7

[Mario]

South Italians in this run come from Crotone, Calabria.

I've seen Eurogenes results from Campania and they are the same as Abruzzo.

[Stimpy]

Mainly Neolithic, recent papers have shown the Indo-Europeans also carried a small amount.

Is there any info on what amounts of WHG/ANE/Near eastern etc. original Indo-Europeans had?

[Graham]

Is there any info on what amounts of WHG/ANE/Near eastern etc. original Indo-Europeans had?

Depends where you want to start. The reason those 3 were picked as the main contributors European ancestry, as are quite different.

The Hunter Gatherer found in Spain was majority WHG & closer to a Lithuanian. WHG is the oldest.

The Neolithics and Near Eastern DNA has been in Europe for thousands of years, they match closest with Sardinia.

ANE most likely comes from R1b Yamnaya types. The ancestor of large part of Modern Y-DNA signatures all over Western Europe. Yamnaya interestingly found largely in modern Udmurts, whom have lots of red hair.


Europe has been molded well after these people came in. It would be difficult to say who was most European. It is more of a cultural construct.


EDit: Sorry here is the latest paper to look through.
http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2015/02/10/013433.full.pdf

[Longbowman]

Is there any info on what amounts of WHG/ANE/Near eastern etc. original Indo-Europeans had?

Seems to be a little over 50% WHG, around 35% ANE, some South Asian/SEA and a small degree of Near Eastern.

[Sikeliot]

South Italians in this run come from Crotone, Calabria.

I've seen Eurogenes results from Campania and they are the same as Abruzzo.

Thought so.

So Campanians (and probably Apulians) are closer to the Abruzzo sample than the Sicilians. Which means what was said before: if you removed the more recent northern influences out of Sicily, they'd be like Calabria.

[Alessio]

South Italians in this run come from Crotone, Calabria.

I've seen Eurogenes results from Campania and they are the same as Abruzzo.

Post them here so we can see as well; I don't take your word for it.

They'd definitely be closer to samples from Abruzzo than to those from either Calabria and/or Sicily.

[Alessio]

The difference in Sicily & South Italy is small. You guys are splitting hairs. Sicily has some more non-Euro ancestry & a little more WHG perhaps being an Island population, which gives a little difference.

The sample size isn't big also, pointed out.

There needs to be a more varied sample size I'd say though.

[Sikeliot]

I will also point out that some regions of Sicily would score like Calabria. Others less so. I have seen people from Trapani scoring elevated northern input (thus placing them near Abruzzo probably) and some people from Palermo and Messina scoring more like Calabrese.

[Stimpy]

Seems to be a little over 50% WHG, around 35% ANE, some South Asian/SEA and a small degree of Near Eastern.

Intresting that they had so high WHG and ANE. Does that mean ''Indo-Europeans'' might actually have brought back a bit of mesolithic European HG ancestry retained in their urheimat to some parts of Europe?

I know alot of people have previously thought of Indo-Europeans as some kind of southern, neolithic, recent arrivals almost a bit ''non-european'' as implied by ''Indo'' in the name. I remember learning in school back in the day that Indo-Europeans were thought of as some kind of recent, almost colonialistic people to Europe, guess they were very wrong in that regard.

[Alessio]

:worried1:

[Longbowman]

Intresting that they had so high WHG and ANE. Does that mean ''Indo-Europeans'' might actually have brought back a bit of mesolithic European HG ancestry retained in their urheimat to some parts of Europe?

I know alot of people have previously thought of Indo-Europeans as some kind of southern, neolithic, recent arrivals almost a bit ''non-european'' as implied by ''Indo'' in the name. I remember learning in school back in the day that Indo-Europeans were thought of as some kind of recent, almost colonialistic people to Europe, guess they were very wrong in that regard.

It means exactly that. Even neolithic remains from Sweden - Gokhem remains - resemble modern day Sardinians. The Indo-Europeans as they were in Europe were WHG, ANE and some South Asian (SEA) + Neolithic.

[Longbowman]

It was just one population out of 3 that was very ancestral to europeans everywhere in different proportions. Would be kinda hard to model their autosomal makeup in exact comparison with our own.

Yeah but some lovely people have done analysis on ancient remains, which is where I'm getting my stats from.

[Stimpy]

It means exactly that. Even neolithic remains from Sweden - Gokhem remains - resemble modern day Sardinians. The Indo-Europeans as they were in Europe were WHG, ANE and some South Asian (SEA) + Neolithic.

That's actually really cool. Would make for a decent movie plot. ''The Mesolithic Man's Revenge''

Those neolithic ''sardinian like'' remains didn't really bring a complete demographical change though. There were still majority WHGs at the same time in Scandinavia, right? I wonder if they lived there for long without mixing or interfering much with eachother.

[Kazbolat]

"Greek" is used for all island samples, so crete is in there. From what Sikeliot has shown so far they seem to be quite southward plotting, quite so compared to all mainlanders.

And yes, Central Greece refers to Peloponnesus and this region. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Greece#/media/File:Location_map_of_CentralGreece_%28Greece%29.sv g) Everything to the north is Greek_Thessaly.

Oh god not this shit again. "greek" doesnt stand for only islanders. arent you tired of trying to nordify your people? you want only thessaly_greek samples to represent greece dont you? because other "greek" samples are more near eastern and not northern enough. i know greeks are mish mash of everything and ethnicity in name only but greeks on this forum are too fucking obsessed with being "northerner" although they are tge woggiest nation in europe along with sicilians lol

[Highlands]

My results are identical to Greek_Thessaly so this was helpful. Thanks mate!

[Kazbolat]

"Greek" is composite for islands in your wet dreams. they are probably from all over the country thus named "greek".

In your nordic dreamland greek stands for subhuman dirty islanders and "german" stands for real mainlander greeks right? greek are as near eastern as north africans. Cry me a river

[Kazbolat]

greek samples should be collected from northernmost territories because greek members dont want subhuman central or southern greeks to represent them in spreadsheets. not to mention fucking inferior islanders who should be exterminated according to nordicist greek members LOL.


Why dont you just hire some german men to fuck your women? that would put an end to this embarassment LOL

[Sikeliot]

1) Thessaly is not in northern Greece. It's centrally located.
2) The VAST majority of Greeks live on the mainland and are thus closer to Thessalians than to Cretans and Rhodians, who combined make up like 5% of the Greek population.

[Longbowman]

1) Thessaly is not in northern Greece. It's centrally located.
2) The VAST majority of Greeks live on the mainland and are thus closer to Thessalians than to Cretans and Rhodians, who combined make up like 5% of the Greek population.

No? Thessaly is in the north. But yes, most Greeks are mainlanders. Central Greece would apply to them too.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Periferia_Thessalias.png

[Sikeliot]

No? Thessaly is in the north. But yes, most Greeks are mainlanders. Central Greece would apply to them too.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Periferia_Thessalias.png


If we had Cretans and Rhodians, they'd come out similar, respectively (IMO) to "East Sicily" and "South Italy".

[Graham]

Since populations were brought up. Thought i'd post where most are located. Whatever this means.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2565/3987855502_70aaea294d.jpghttp://popdensitymap.ucoz.ru/68.Population_density-administrative_boundaries-ma.png

[Sikeliot]

The lower half of the mainland (central_greek) is exactly the same as the island/generalized greek cluster though.

Ok so Thessaly is probably representative of northern Greeks (and apparently close to Albanians), and southern Greece would be somewhere between Albanians and the Sicilians (probably like the Abruzzese results). Then islanders would be more like the Sicilians and southern Italian sample.

[Sikeliot]

Possibly. I'd wait for better structured samples though.

It's likely to be the case considering that on MDLP and other runs where Cretan is a choice, Sicilians often get that as their second, and sometimes even their first, option. But my point was that the majority of Greeks score closer to the Thessalian and Central Greek sample, since islanders are literally a drop of water in a bucket as far as the Greek population goes.