Is Balkan mentality closer to that of other Europeans, the Near East or a combination of the two?

[Mortimer]

near east (turkey and surrounding cultures/areas). if you think im trolling then you are racist dumb fuck who takes near east as insult. i dont say that balkans on average look west asian they look more european but culturally and mentally they are a intermediate between austro-hungarian/german/western culture and ottoman culture/mentality. i think in many ways they are close to turkish people. also many balkanites (especially muslims) bond with turks, they like eatch other, not so much on forums maybe but in real life.

[alb0zfinest]

What you explained in the comment section is quite different from the name of the title. You should probably ask a mod to change the title of the thread so that its not misconstrued. You can keep it if you want but you'll probably get trolled and insulted alot for it.

[Mortimer]

What you explained in the comment section is quite different from the name of the title. You should probably ask a mod to change the title of the thread so that its not misconstrued. You can keep it if you want but you'll probably get trolled and insulted alot for it.

how its different i didnt specified in my title in which ways they are closer to turks etc. or europeans. i didnt said are they genetically culturally etc. closer but some mod can change it though.

[alb0zfinest]

how its different i didnt specified in my title in which ways they are closer to turks etc. or europeans. i didnt said are they genetically culturally etc. closer but some mod can change it though.

I know you didn't specify lol, but that is what most people will assume.

Probably change it to something like;

Is the balkan mentality/culture European, near eastern or a combination of the two?

[Mortimer]

I know you didn't specify lol, but that is what most people will assume.

Probably change it to something like;

Is the balkan mentality European, near eastern or a combination of the two?

ok i will change it

[Crn Volk]

Probably closer to other southern Europeans - hot and fiery

[Kastrioti1443]

There is not such thing as ''european'' mentality or mindset, these are inventions of mulattoes and depressed mongrels who try to identity with something which doesn't exist, or even if exists, it is far from being an example to follow.

It is very clear with what ''european' or '' european behavior'' has been associated in the last 70-80 years, especially after 1960 and every clear balkaner must not want to be associated with such term.

Anyway, balkaners have different mindsets on their own, even inside their nations, and only a small part of balkaners have been warriors, the others have been farmers of every kind and perfect subjected people of the empire, who besides producing food, not doing any riot and going to the church on sunday, they also gave a lot of their daughters in harems.

However yes, balkaners, the ones who are proud, do not want to be associated with gay, faggot, subjective, dump, mentally and physically ill ''europeaness'' .

[lameduck]

balkans can be very euro nationalist(for the lack of better word) actually the scenario is that because of being close to Turkey(and that past) resulting in a euro centrist attitude that is more fierce than normal scenario.

[StormBringer]

You don't really see that many Mid Easterners chimping-out (granted there perhaps isn't as many of them as there's Balkanites on this forum), so, on the chimping-out graph we would plot more south eastern than them.

[StormBringer]

Blurgh blurgh blurgh, I'm a retarded little shit from Alburtha who jacks off to thugs and organized crime, see me roll...

[Nurzat]

between Germany and Turkey, Balkans are closer in appearance and mentality and customs and folklore to.. Turkey. closer, but still quite different. but definitely closer to Western Asia than to Western and Northern Europe

[Jana]

It's not a ''European mentality'', honestly.

[Herr Abubu]

It depends, those from the Western Balkans have a mentality and temperament similar to mountaineers from other parts of the world, especially Northern Caucasus. That's changing fast, however. Thinking that it will somehow make them as rich as the West, they try to become as degenerate as the West.

[Linet]

Which one is the European mentality? :chin: ....the French one? The German one? The Spanish one? The Italian one? The Norwegean one? the Maltese one? The Russian? etc etc etc :dizzy: and by balkan mentality which one you mean? The Romanian or the Greek? Because our mentalities are like night and day http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/peach-bush-smiley.gif?1292867651....the Albanian or the Serbian? The Croatian or the Bulgarian? which mentality? ....we are not one thing, we dont come out of a "Balkan maker" factory http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smiley_faces/smilies-maker-smiley-face.gif?1302011424

[dawson]

Euro

[Kastrioti1443]

I am buthurt

You are clearly buthurt about something vlach tomato farmer who infected the lands of bosnia...

[Dorian]

no such thing as "turkish" folklore,appearance,custom and mentality..lol

[Imamudin]

They're more like Europeans.

[Imamudin]

It depends, those from the Western Balkans have a mentality and temperament similar to mountaineers from other parts of the world, especially Northern Caucasus.

:lol00001:

Maybe in your dreams.

[Jana]

From a legal perspective, Balkans can't be grouped as near-eastern like either. Without Byzantine law, especially Corpus Iuris Civil there wouldn't be modern civil law system as we know it today. However, Ottomans brought their ''rules'' in formas of quasi-legal system with them, and it was incompatible with mainstream Europen traditions. Survived until 20th century and left cultural imprint which alienated pasts of southeastern Europe. It's interesting how a legal system, or lack of it influence culture of the region.

But, other parts of Europe have some outliers too. Southern Spain and Italy, bit oriental influence. Extreme northern regions, isolated and speresly populated, also developed culture of their own. So it's hard to answer this question. Differences are smaller now than they were before I think.

[blogen]

Identical with the Near Eastern.

[Hithaeglir]

This comparison would require the existence of an actual "Balkan mentality".

[Cristiano viejo]

Albanians and Bosnians have clearly Middle Eastern mentality. Clothes, culture, gastronomy, religion (they worship to a pederast), language (overall Bosnians), architecture, scientific, historical and sport achievements... and both countries poverty is consistent with that of the Middle Eastern countries. Even there are African and Latin American countries richer than them.

[Nurzat]

Which one is the European mentality? :chin: ....the French one? The German one? The Spanish one? The Italian one? The Norwegean one? the Maltese one? The Russian? etc etc etc :dizzy: and by balkan mentality which one you mean? The Romanian or the Greek? Because our mentalities are like night and day http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/peach-bush-smiley.gif?1292867651....the Albanian or the Serbian? The Croatian or the Bulgarian? which mentality? ....we are not one thing, we dont come out of a "Balkan maker" factory http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smiley_faces/smilies-maker-smiley-face.gif?1302011424

don't worry, Greece is Southern Europe, not Balkans :) you have nothing to worry, we don't refer to Greeks

[blogen]

Albanians and Bosnians have clearly Middle Eastern mentality. Clothes, culture, gastronomy, religion (they worship to a pederast), language (overall Bosnians), architecture, scientific, historical and sport achievements... and both countries poverty is consistent with that of the Middle Eastern countries. Even there are African and Latin American countries richer than them.

The Muslims of the Balkan were mostly wealthy and educated urban citizens, while the Christians were illiterate peasants from the rural lands in the Ottoman times. The social rise was the basis of the islamization in the Ottoman Balkan. Because of this richer culturally Bosnia and Albania until today. And an another reason was significant too, and that was the modernistaion, what was a nationalistic policy in the post-Ottoman states and this nationalism, the cultural uniformity of their nationalist narratives weakened these contries culture too. This increased the Gypsies' role in the Balkanite cultural life, especially in Serbia. They were a periferical society otside the modernist tendencies, and because of this, they preserved and mediated the old, premodern Balkan culture to the modern and postmodern Balkanite society. The simplifying effect of the nationalism did not affect them and their creativeness and sensitivity remained.

But the whole modernisation/westernization was only a glaze on the Balkanite Christians socio-cultural behavior. The old reflexes are untouched in the depth and the Balkan is nothing more than a modernized Christian Near East as some part of Lebanon. They are westernized from outside only.

[Nurzat]

I would call it "Ottoman mentality" and yes, there is:

Bulgaria, Romania, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, Serbia, Western Turkey - yes

Croatia - idk

Slovenia - no

Greece, Cyprus - is South Europe

[blogen]

I would call it "Ottoman mentality" and yes, there is:

What was the clear and direct continuation of the Byzantine traditions.

[Prism]

One of my friends was in Croatia and Montenegro recently and he told me our culture is a mixture between Southern European and Slavic, hes Polish. We love to eat but we also love to drink ;) But yes there is a lot of Turkish input, our cuisine completely ( burek, pita , baklava, ćevapi, etc ), our traditional music has Turkish input and maybe and our hot temper ( which I have too ) i dont know, if its a Turkish influence, Slavic influence or Ilyrian influence.

[Jana]

Croatia has never been Balkan country, despite agressive attempts to put us in that ''region'' . Eh :)

[Kastrioti1443]

:lol00001:

Maybe in your dreams.

You should be honored that he portrayed caucasians as a good example, because people here bash you daily, in a lot of threads.


I would call it "Ottoman mentality" and yes, there is:

Bulgaria, Romania, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, Serbia, Western Turkey - yes

Croatia - idk

Slovenia - no

Greece, Cyprus - is South Europe


There is not such thing as 'ottoman mentality' my friend, never existed and never will exist. You are giving too much credit to a dynasty of 400 tents that brought devastation and backwardness everywhere.




The Muslims of the Balkan were mostly wealthy and educated urban citizens, while the Christians were illiterate peasants from the rural lands in the Ottoman times. The social rise was the basis of the islamization in the Ottoman Balkan. Because of this richer culturally Bosnia and Albania until today. And an another reason was significant too, and that was the modernistaion, what was a nationalistic policy in the post-Ottoman states and this nationalism, the cultural uniformity of their nationalist narratives weakened these contries culture too. This increased the Gypsies' role in the Balkanite cultural life, especially in Serbia. They were a periferical society otside the modernist tendencies, and because of this, they preserved and mediated the old, premodern Balkan culture to the modern and postmodern Balkanite society. The simplifying effect of the nationalism did not affect them and their creativeness and sensitivity remained.

But the whole modernisation/westernization was only a glaze on the Balkanite Christians socio-cultural behavior. The old reflexes are untouched in the depth and the Balkan is nothing more than a modernized Christian Near East as some part of Lebanon. They are westernized from outside only.

I do not know about Bosnia, but albanians didn't get richer during ottoman invasion. Do not confuse some certain albanian rulers with the general population. Ottomans times are the biggest wound and darkest part of albanians' history and besides blood, destruction and total backwardness, ottomans brought nothing else.

[Prism]

Northern Croatia yes thats central Europe but Dalmacija ( where I get my heritage ) is infact the Balkans and the south.

[Jana]

Northern Croatia yes thats central Europe but Dalmacija ( where I get my heritage ) and the south is.

Dalmatia is purely mediterranean, Southern European in culture and history. Only interor highlands (Zagora) recived Balkan influence. Btw, I'm half-Dalmatian too :)

From wiki about Dalmatian identity:

The inhabitants of Dalmatia are culturally subdivided into two or three groups. The urban families of the coastal cities, sometimes known as Fetivi, are culturally akin to the inhabitants of the Dalmatian islands (known derogatorily as Boduli). The two are together distinct, in the Mediterranean aspects of their culture, from the more numerous inhabitants of the Zagora, the hinterland, referred to (sometimes derogatorily) as the Vlaji. The latter are historically more influenced by Ottoman culture, merging almost seamlessly at the border with the Herzegovinian Croats and southern Bosnia and Herzegovina in general.

The former two groups (inhabitants of the islands and the cities) historically included many Venetian and Italian speakers, many of whom identified as Italians (esp. after the Unification of Italy). Their presence, relative to those identifying as South Slavs, decreased dramatically over the course of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century. There remains, however, a strong cultural, and, in part, ancestral heritage among the natives of the cities and islands, who today almost exclusively identify as Croats, but retain a sense of regional identity.

[Sideritis]

Well there is always Zizek. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYnda5JhOMM)

"We in Slovenia are especially sensitive when it comes to this; For us in Slovenia, the Balkans begins here in Croatia. Because during the period of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy we were the Austrian part of it, we were in Middle Europe, in the midst of civilizaition, while Croatia (on the other hand) would be the Balkans. For Croats, the Balkans begins with Bosnia and Serbia, since the Croats are catholics, they're Europe. For Serbians, the Balkans are Albanians, Kosovo and downward - The Serbs are the last fortress, defense of Europe.
But the comedic part of it is that you can do the same thing in the opposite direction - For the Austrians we, the Slovenians are the Balkans.Karavanke, those hills between Slovenia and Austria, that is the border of the Balkans.The comedy goes even further- for the Germans, The Austrians are a sort of the Balkans.???? For French, there is something dark to the Germans, as if they're somehow suspicious. The French are the civilazation. And to go the farthest, for English, all of Europe is somehow the Balkans and Bruxells is the new Konstantinopol etc. Therefore, the Balkans is never right here. It is always somewhere downward, toward the East. "The Balkans are OTHERS." Yes, Yes.But I think this is a really important ideological category - because my friend Mladen Dolar had this wonderful idea that the Balkans functions as the Unconscious of Europe - all of European traumas, everything that Europe isn't willing to admit about itself, the brutality, anti-feminism, militarism, all of this is being projected as the Balkans.

[Highlands]

From what I've seen, Balkanites don't assimilate very well in the west. There is clear "oriental" influence in the culture (let's not take into consideration the young western hipster types which don't represent the majority). Even Indians and Chinese are more westernised than balkanites. You can how those groups assimilate very quickly.

[Nurzat]

Dalmatia is purely mediterranean, Southern European in culture and history. Only interor highlands (Zagora) recived Balkan influence. Btw, I'm half-Dalmatian too :)

From wiki about Dalmatian identity:

The inhabitants of Dalmatia are culturally subdivided into two or three groups. The urban families of the coastal cities, sometimes known as Fetivi, are culturally akin to the inhabitants of the Dalmatian islands (known derogatorily as Boduli). The two are together distinct, in the Mediterranean aspects of their culture, from the more numerous inhabitants of the Zagora, the hinterland, referred to (sometimes derogatorily) as the Vlaji. The latter are historically more influenced by Ottoman culture, merging almost seamlessly at the border with the Herzegovinian Croats and southern Bosnia and Herzegovina in general.

The former two groups (inhabitants of the islands and the cities) historically included many Venetian and Italian speakers, many of whom identified as Italians (esp. after the Unification of Italy). Their presence, relative to those identifying as South Slavs, decreased dramatically over the course of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century. There remains, however, a strong cultural, and, in part, ancestral heritage among the natives of the cities and islands, who today almost exclusively identify as Croats, but retain a sense of regional identity.

we're generalizing here.. if we stay to count all exceptions.. then Romania would be historically and culturally into 3 or 4 different regions (Banat and Wallachia - Balkans, Transylvania, Criș Country, Maramureș - Central Europe, Moldavia - Eastern Europe, Bucovina - Northern Europe....)

within the borders of a country the things get homogenized, standardized, with influence from the capital city and the majority of the inhabitants of the country.. so, disregard prior culture, from Bucharest all the country gets more and more Balkanic. the same must be elsewhere - and Turkey gets more and more European because of Istanbul. so this is how Balkans and Turkey still grow closer more and more

[blogen]

I do not know about Bosnia, but albanians didn't get richer during ottoman invasion. Do not confuse some certain albanian rulers with the general population. Ottomans times are the biggest wound and darkest part of albanians' history and besides blood, destruction and total backwardness, ottomans brought nothing else.

You are so ungrateful! :D

The Albanians would not have been able to spread onto their present residence without the Ottoman invasion. Kosovo would be purely Serbian, Epirus is Vlacho-Greek and Vardar is Vlacho-Bulgarian. Two third the areas with significant Albanian population was not Albanian populated before the Ottoman era.

[Jana]

Well there is always Zizek. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYnda5JhOMM)

"We in Slovenia are especially sensitive when it comes to this; For us in Slovenia, the Balkans begins here in Croatia. Because during the period of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy we were the Austrian part of it, we were in Middle Europe, in the midst of civilizaition, while Croatia (on the other hand) would be the Balkans. For Croats, the Balkans begins with Bosnia and Serbia, since the Croats are catholics, they're Europe. For Serbians, the Balkans are Albanians, Kosovo and downward - The Serbs are the last fortress, defense of Europe.
But the comedic part of it is that you can do the same thing in the opposite direction - For the Austrians we, the Slovenians are the Balkans.Karavanke, those hills between Slovenia and Austria, that is the border of the Balkans.The comedy goes even further- for the Germans, The Austrians are a sort of the Balkans.???? For French, there is something dark to the Germans, as if they're somehow suspicious. The French are the civilazation. And to go the farthest, for English, all of Europe is somehow the Balkans and Bruxells is the new Konstantinopol etc. Therefore, the Balkans is never right here. It is always somewhere downward, toward the East. "The Balkans are OTHERS." Yes, Yes.But I think this is a really important ideological category - because my friend Mladen Dolar had this wonderful idea that the Balkans functions as the Unconscious of Europe - all of European traumas, everything that Europe isn't willing to admit about itself, the brutality, anti-feminism, militarism, all of this is being projected as the Balkans.

Zizek is very interesting guy, he was a guest at my University few times, but here he's joking of course :) Slovenia and Croatia have been part of Austro-Hungary togheder, although Slovenia didn't have authonomy Croatia had. And Dalmatian coast was under Venice, later France for a short period of time and than Austria claimed it. Millitary frontier was carved out of Croatian teritorry to protect Central Europe from Ottomans, and Croatia was never conquered nor included in Ottoman empire. So really, we get very annoyed to be called Balkans when we were never culturally part of it. 1000 years in Central Europe/mediterranean, and only 70 in Yugoslavia, and people forget the past. Religion plays the part too, because Croatia was border between west and east after Roman empire split (on western side of it).

And don't forget, Germans often joke how Balkans starts in Vienna. LOL :D

[Jana]

we're generalizing here.. if we stay to count all exceptions.. then Romania would be historically and culturally into 3 or 4 different regions (Banat and Wallachia - Balkans, Transylvania, Criș Country, Maramureș - Central Europe, Moldavia - Eastern Europe, Bucovina - Northern Europe....)

within the borders of a country the things get homogenized, standardized, with influence from the capital city and the majority of the inhabitants of the country.. so, disregard prior culture, from Bucharest all the country gets more and more Balkanic. the same must be elsewhere - and Turkey gets more and more European because of Istanbul. so this is how Balkans and Turkey still grow closer more and more

Well, I consider Romania Balkanic country culturally, but I'm not Romanian, so if wrong, correct me. Geographicaly it's Eastern Europe though, since it's north of the Danube (just like big part of Croatia is in Balkan peninsula by geography). But I always tought Transylvania to be Central European culturally because it was part of Hungary for centuries.

[Sikeliot]

Greek mentality is very similar to southern Italian.

[blogen]

Greek mentality is very similar to southern Italian.

And the South Italian mentality is similatar to the Near Eastern Mentality. South Iberia, Maghreb, South Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel and the monarchies of the Arabian peninsula are the developed Oriens, while the Balkanite countries, the Caucasian countries, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Lybia and Yemen are the developing Oriens.

[Prism]

Well there is always Zizek. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYnda5JhOMM)

"We in Slovenia are especially sensitive when it comes to this; For us in Slovenia, the Balkans begins here in Croatia. Because during the period of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy we were the Austrian part of it, we were in Middle Europe, in the midst of civilizaition, while Croatia (on the other hand) would be the Balkans. For Croats, the Balkans begins with Bosnia and Serbia, since the Croats are catholics, they're Europe. For Serbians, the Balkans are Albanians, Kosovo and downward - The Serbs are the last fortress, defense of Europe.
But the comedic part of it is that you can do the same thing in the opposite direction - For the Austrians we, the Slovenians are the Balkans.Karavanke, those hills between Slovenia and Austria, that is the border of the Balkans.The comedy goes even further- for the Germans, The Austrians are a sort of the Balkans.???? For French, there is something dark to the Germans, as if they're somehow suspicious. The French are the civilazation. And to go the farthest, for English, all of Europe is somehow the Balkans and Bruxells is the new Konstantinopol etc. Therefore, the Balkans is never right here. It is always somewhere downward, toward the East. "The Balkans are OTHERS." Yes, Yes.But I think this is a really important ideological category - because my friend Mladen Dolar had this wonderful idea that the Balkans functions as the Unconscious of Europe - all of European traumas, everything that Europe isn't willing to admit about itself, the brutality, anti-feminism, militarism, all of this is being projected as the Balkans.

Well if North Croatia IMO is not the Balkans, then Slovenia definitely isnt, I have heard being called Balkan or South Slav is an insult to them ?? Anyway I dont know any Slovenians myslef but my Grandad tells me theyre cold and more like Austrians.

This website explains them well.

http://europeisnotdead.com/video/images-of-europe/european-stereotypes/

I guess....

[Nurzat]

Well, I consider Romania Balkanic country culturally, but I'm not Romanian, so if wrong, correct me. Geographicaly it's Eastern Europe though, since it's north of the Danube (just like big part of Croatia is in Balkan peninsula by geography). But I always tought Transylvania to be Central European culturally because it was part of Hungary for centuries.

grosso modo it is Balkanic. kitsch took on. small places like my region, which are totally Central Euro, don't count in the big picture, which is overly Balkanic and Ottoman

Bucovina, North Romania, former Austrian land (https://www.google.ro/search?q=bucovina&biw=1920&bih=915&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=oswSVaLEEcXj7QbIo4CQBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ)

[Insuperable]

Dalmatia is purely mediterranean, Southern European in culture and history. Only interor highlands (Zagora) recived Balkan influence. Btw, I'm half-Dalmatian too :)

From wiki about Dalmatian identity:

The inhabitants of Dalmatia are culturally subdivided into two or three groups. The urban families of the coastal cities, sometimes known as Fetivi, are culturally akin to the inhabitants of the Dalmatian islands (known derogatorily as Boduli). The two are together distinct, in the Mediterranean aspects of their culture, from the more numerous inhabitants of the Zagora, the hinterland, referred to (sometimes derogatorily) as the Vlaji. The latter are historically more influenced by Ottoman culture, merging almost seamlessly at the border with the Herzegovinian Croats and southern Bosnia and Herzegovina in general.

The former two groups (inhabitants of the islands and the cities) historically included many Venetian and Italian speakers, many of whom identified as Italians (esp. after the Unification of Italy). Their presence, relative to those identifying as South Slavs, decreased dramatically over the course of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century. There remains, however, a strong cultural, and, in part, ancestral heritage among the natives of the cities and islands, who today almost exclusively identify as Croats, but retain a sense of regional identity.

Correct. Dalmatia is a South European in history and culture more or less. Hinterland is really Balkanic and although not a geographically a small part of southern Croatia, it's population makes 6 or 7 % of population of Dalmatia since it is a more mountainous region, I think. Why it says there more numerous?:confused: Wouldn't automatically label southern Croatia as Balkanic (not to mention the entire Croatia since southern Croatian population is one fifth of the population of Croatia) because of it. Pred. South European with Balkanic influences imo.

[Sideritis]

Well if North Croatia IMO is not the Balkans, then Slovenia definitely isnt, I have heard being called Balkan or South Slav is an insult to them ?? Anyway I dont know any Slovenians myslef but my Grandad tells me theyre cold and more like Austrians.

This website explains them well.

http://europeisnotdead.com/video/images-of-europe/european-stereotypes/

I guess....

Geographically they are Balkan. But normally people on the edges of the Balkan have things in common with their bordering countries.

[Nurzat]

Correct. Dalmatia is a South European in history and culture more or less. Hinterland is really Balkanic and although not a geographically a small part of southern Croatia, it's population makes 6 or 7 % of population of Dalmatia. Wouldn't automatically label southern Croatia as Balkanic (not to mention the entire Croatia) because of it. Pred. South European with Balkanic influences imo.

you are right, because Balkanism implies Orthodoxy and/or Islam, while Hungary and Croatia got away from it largely because of the Western contacts and customs they took on with Catholicism

[Nurzat]

we in the Balkans are all a bit Gypsy. but better cool Gypsies than dull and delusional Westerners bored of life and money (Cristiano viejo will so like this post haha)

[Jana]

we in the Balkans are all a bit Gypsy. but better cool Gypsies than dull and delusional Westerners bored of life and money (Cristiano viejo will so like this post haha)

They have los gitanos too :D And we are all just cigani who envy heroic conquistadors :)))

[Nurzat]

They have los gitanos too :D And we are all just cigani who envy heroic conquistadors :)))

nice Gypsy song and video clip from Romania, extreme Balkanizacija


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKanphHHr0g

[Prism]

Geographically they are Balkan. But normally people on the edges of the Balkan have things in common with their bordering countries.

Geographically this is the Balkans :

56124

Anything thats in the coloured zone is the Balkans, people have the same culture and cuisine. Well Vojvodina is the Balkans too and some of Romania. My aunt would tell me Yugoslavia was 25 percent Central European ( N. Croatia and Slovenia ) and 75 percent Balkan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

All the European countries that appear under " Today part of " is the Balkans. This is my opinion and I do not mean to offend anyone, but whats wrong with being Balkanian anyway ??

[♥ Lily ♥]

The question is confusing and I think it needs to be rephrased. Are you referring to any specific country in the Balkans region and any specific country in Western Europe in making comparisons of differences or similarities? Do you mean the cultural differences between various countries in Eastern and Western Europe - such as the general religious, societal, or political views within the different nations for instance?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Balkans have not evolved like other Europeans. Their mentality is very primitive. So they are similar to Middle Easterners in this way.

[Casandrinos]

Balkan is only a geographical term

[Nurzat]

Geographically this is the Balkans :

56124

Anything thats in the coloured zone is the Balkans, people have the same culture and cuisine. Well Vojvodina is the Balkans too and some of Romania. My aunt would tell me Yugoslavia was 25 percent Central European ( N. Croatia and Slovenia ) and 75 percent Balkan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

All the European countries that appear under " Today part of " is the Balkans. This is my opinion and I do not mean to offend anyone, but whats wrong with being Balkanian anyway ??

Greece counts as Southern Europe.. I don't see it as Balkanic.

the Balkanic brotherhood is:

Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Montenegro

[♥ Lily ♥]

Greece counts as Southern Europe.. I don't see it as Balkanic.

the Balkanic brotherhood is:

Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Montenegro

I've never seen Greece as being Balkanic either; I've always thought of Greece as being a Western European nation because it's referred to as the cradle of western civilisation. I think they're culturally more like Western Europe. Before the eurozone crisis happened, Greece had a good economy.

[Sideritis]

Greece counts as Southern Europe.. I don't see it as Balkanic.

the Balkanic brotherhood is:

Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Montenegro

Greece is Balkan, though.

[Cristiano viejo]

Bosnian clothes

http://crystalmethamphetamines.com/wp-content/plugins/exclude-pages/traditional-bosnian-clothes-i10.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRC6altnSJAd3FMRdhP1KpR1m5e9xkeH ghGhgICAsYfmQ2KGPPO

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHZFpOtddORCYzRuFH3Jv1bdm-L6JbDxVllQgbqCXRlMDGWgGEJA

European or Middle Eastern? :rolleyes:

[Jana]

Bosniak noblemen (my ancestor) Pashtun or Swede ??? :rolleyes: )) He considered himself a Turkish citizen by political nationality and was hard-liner muslim. His son married Catholic Croat woman and he disowned him. Son later became Austro-Hungarian officer and was decorated for bravery at Eastern front (Galicia). His children took mother Croat surname as they could never be legally married, moved in Northern Croatia and grew up as Central Europeans. That's story of my dad's side. Bosnia is a Balkanic country no doubt, but by historical reasons I lost ties with it. Still, would never be ashamed of my roots. So Chrisitano, lay off from Bosnia!! Wanted to share a story.
http://i.imgur.com/SkDlWt2.jpg?1

[Insuperable]

Bosniak noblemen (my ancestor) Pashtun or Swede ??? :rolleyes: )) He considered himself a Turkish citizen by political nationality and was hard-liner muslim. His son married Catholic Croat woman and he disowned him. Son later became Austro-Hungarian officer and was decorated for bravery at Eastern front (Galicia). His children took mother Croat surname as they could never be legally married, moved in Northern Croatia and grew up as Central Europeans. That's story of my dad's side. Bosnia is a Balkanic country no doubt, but by historical reasons I lost ties with it. Still, would never be ashamed of my roots. So Chrisitano, lay off from Bosnia!! Wanted to share a story.
http://i.imgur.com/SkDlWt2.jpg?1

You are half Croat, 1/4 Bosniak, 1/4 Schwabian?

[blogen]

Bosnian clothes

http://crystalmethamphetamines.com/wp-content/plugins/exclude-pages/traditional-bosnian-clothes-i10.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRC6altnSJAd3FMRdhP1KpR1m5e9xkeH ghGhgICAsYfmQ2KGPPO

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHZFpOtddORCYzRuFH3Jv1bdm-L6JbDxVllQgbqCXRlMDGWgGEJA

European or Middle Eastern? :rolleyes:

Of course not Europe or more punctually not western or eastern European, but totally identical with the old Serbian clothes:

http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/ea3115b6001c1bcba1487829a497144a.jpg
http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/953d22d48f16b898a0d5e0bd7c47b6d8.jpg
http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/80aac9573a9f6b2c8d4b1b3d78f228ed.jpg
http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/0f564d4be44f8a934495bf2137a465db.jpg
http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/093afbb2dd5fa93b99f2d854d762af68.jpg

As the every other Balkanite folk clothes. There was basically two great Ottoman folklore region in the Balkan:

- Bulgaro-Serbo-Bosniak
- Albano-Vlacho-Greek

If I see their traditional clothings. The Albano-Vlacho-Greek is a little more European or post-Byzantine than the basically full Oriental Bulgaro-Serbo-Bosniak folklore. And yes, the closest relatives of the old Balkanite clothings were the Middle-Eastern clothings.

[Jana]

You are half Croat, 1/4 Bosniak, 1/4 Schwabian?

More or less, yes.

[Insuperable]

More or less, yes.

So much stories from you lately...At least fix your profile.

[Jana]

So much stories from you lately...At least fix your profile.

I am Croatian. Lost ties to others. It's bugging me though.

[Insuperable]

I am Croatian. Lost ties to others. It's bugging me though.

I just know that your stories, your love for more than one country, thing for Oriental music... and your ancestry above all and seeing your profile make me feel weird.

[alb0zfinest]

Of course not Europe or more punctually not western or eastern European, but totally identical with the old Serbian clothes:

http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/ea3115b6001c1bcba1487829a497144a.jpg
http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/953d22d48f16b898a0d5e0bd7c47b6d8.jpg
http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/80aac9573a9f6b2c8d4b1b3d78f228ed.jpg
http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/0f564d4be44f8a934495bf2137a465db.jpg
http://img.ie/images/2015/03/25/093afbb2dd5fa93b99f2d854d762af68.jpg

As the every other Balkanite folk clothes. There was basically two great Ottoman folklore region in the Balkan:

- Bulgaro-Serbo-Bosniak
- Albano-Vlacho-Greek

If I see their traditional clothings. The Albano-Vlacho-Greek is a little more European or post-Byzantine than the basically full Oriental Bulgaro-Serbo-Bosniak folklore. And yes, the closest relatives of the old Balkanite clothings were the Middle-Eastern clothings.

Albanian folk clothing has nothing to do with the ottoman empire.

[Jana]

I just know that your stories, your love for more than one country, thing for Oriental music... and your ancestry above all and seeing your profile make me feel weird.

But what about you, you probably love both Croatia and Herzegovina too.

[Insuperable]

But what about you, you probably love both Croatia and Herzegovina too.

I like people from Herzegovina, Croats that is. Your point is mute.

[Jana]

I like people from Herzegovina, Croats that is. Your point is mute.

Well, you won the debate.

[blogen]

Albanian folk clothing has nothing to do with the ottoman empire.

I don't see the dominant pre-Ottoman elements in the Albano-Vlacho-Greek folklore.

[Highlands]

You are so ungrateful! :D

The Albanians would not have been able to spread onto their present residence without the Ottoman invasion. Kosovo would be purely Serbian, Epirus is Vlacho-Greek and Vardar is Vlacho-Bulgarian. Two third the areas with significant Albanian population was not Albanian populated before the Ottoman era.

That's not true.
If you bother to analyze Albanian genetics, you will see there is a clear "native" marker for Kosovars. The more south you go into Kosovo, the more native paleo-balkan and Mediterranean - which isn't found in other Albanian populations. Albanians have always inhabited Kosovo, especially around the area of Prizren. Compare to Kosovo Serbs who plot almost with Polish people. Not even with Bulgarians.

[alb0zfinest]

I don't see the dominant pre-Ottoman elements in the Albano-Vlacho-Greek folklore.

Except that the xhubleta (Albanian folk dress) is not found anywhere else except amongst Albanians. And neither is this Albanian folk clothing for men. At best you will find the same pants being worn amongst assimilated south slavs bordering Albanians. The same goes for the fustanella. And the same for the plis. I think you just don't know what the Albanian folk clothing looks like
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/Illyrian/xhubleta2-veshje.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Prek_Cali.jpg/220px-Prek_Cali.jpg


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/79/94/15/79941547df7b29e17769f81f3452d531.jpg

[blogen]

Except that the xhubleta (Albanian folk dress) is not found anywhere else except amongst Albanians. And neither is this Albanian folk clothing for men. At best you will find the same pants being worn amongst assimilated south slavs bordering Albanians. The same goes for the fustanella. And the same for the plis. I think you just don't know what the Albanian folk clothing looks like
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/Illyrian/xhubleta2-veshje.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Prek_Cali.jpg/220px-Prek_Cali.jpg


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/79/94/15/79941547df7b29e17769f81f3452d531.jpg

That is a typical Ottoman shuit from the Balkan. All element of this clothing were part of the Ottoman age styles.

[Pjeter Pan]

That is a typical Ottoman shuit from the Balkan. All element of this clothing were part of the Ottoman age styles.

you're a complete fucking moron

[Stears]

near east (turkey and surrounding cultures/areas). if you think im trolling then you are racist dumb fuck who takes near east as insult. i dont say that balkans on average look west asian they look more european but culturally and mentally they are a intermediate between austro-hungarian/german/western culture and ottoman culture/mentality. i think in many ways they are close to turkish people. also many balkanites (especially muslims) bond with turks, they like eatch other, not so much on forums maybe but in real life. Austria-Hungary had no balkan territories, (except bosnia for a short time). Serbia remained a separate state, and it belonged to the Orthodox southern slavic world after the Ottoman era.

[Stears]

That is a typical Ottoman shuit from the Balkan. All element of this clothing were part of the Ottoman age styles. Blogen, your alföld jassic-cuman territory was not able to adopt the Hungarian culture, you learned the Hungarian language, but your customs behavior and material culture remained foreigner in Hungary.

[Minesweeper]

Don't care, just want to be separtated from Stears and the dirty race he belongs to.

[Stears]

I've never seen Greece as being Balkanic either; I've always thought of Greece as being a Western European nation because it's referred to as the cradle of western civilisation. I think they're culturally more like Western Europe. Before the eurozone crisis happened, Greece had a good economy. Wrong. It was the center of hatred towards the western civilization after 1054. Average Orthodox people hated more the western christians (catholic protestants) than the muslism Ottomans. The greek west-hater attitude changed during their independence war against Ottoman Empire, where a lot of western (French British etc...) voluntary helped them to fight against the Ottomans.

[blogen]

you're a complete fucking moron

Even the only not Ottoman origin costume, the Foustanella was trendy in the Ottoman times again in the Greeco-Vlacho-Albanian regions!

[Kastrioti1443]

Even the only not Ottoman origin costume, the Foustanella was trendy in the Ottoman times again in the Greeco-Vlacho-Albanian regions!

Dude you are a subhuman, who thinks hungarians are some kind of lost mongol-turanid people in the middle of central europe and are proud of hungarian porn industry. You use the term ''grek'o'' or ''vlach'' without knowing their meaning.

[Stears]

Don't care, just want to be separtated from Stears and the dirty race he belongs to. Just Look your average dark pigmentation. your weird less european balkan look, your semi-asian orthodox culture, and your less european balkanic gene poll. It is no wonder that Hungarians traditionally call the balkanites as gypsy folks.

[Stears]

Dude you are a subhuman, who thinks hungarians are some kind of lost mongol-turanid people in the middle of central europe and are proud of hungarian porn industry. You use the term ''grek'o'' or ''vlach'' without knowing their meaning. Again, balkanites and you caucasians do not look european, you are swarthy people with non-european genetic-makup and primitive semi-asian culture. Non-white gypsy!

[StormBringer]

We could assimilate Stears.There is potential.

[Stears]

Culturally, both islam and the semi-asian orthodox countries were traditionally west-hater civilizations. Hungary is a Central European country, and part of the Catholic-Protestant western civilization. Hungary is not Eastern European (Orthodox = semi-asian culture) country.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Clash_of_Civilizations_map.png


What is Western Civilization?
The earliest mention of Western civilization “Occidental civilis”
After the Great Schism (The East-West Schism /formally in 1054/, between Western Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christianity.) Hungary determined itself as the easternmost bastion of Western civilisation (This statement was affirmed later by Pope Pius II who wrote that to Emperor Friedrich III, “Hungary is the shield of Christianity and the protector of Western civilization”)
It is not a secret in history, that countries civilizations are/were not in the same level of development.
It is well-known that Western and Central Europe, ( the so-called Western civilization) was always more developed than Orthodox Slavic or Eastern European civilization.
The cultural the societal-system and the economical civilizational (and technological) differences between Orthodox countries and Western Christian (Catholic-Protestant) countries were similar great, as the differences between Northern America (USA Canada) and Southern- (Latino) America.



MEMENTO:
Western things which were not existed in orthodox world:




1. POLITICAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL development: Medieval appearance of parliaments (a legislative body(!), DO NOT CONFUSE with the “councils of monarchs” which existed since the beginning of human history), the estates of the realm, the clergy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clergy), the nobility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility), and the commoners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commoner),




2. SELF GOVERNMENT status of big royal/imperial cities, (local government systems of cities), which are the direct ancestors of modern self/local governmental systems.




3. ECONOMY: The medieval appearance of banking systems and social effects and status of urban bourgeoisie, the absolute dominance of money-economy (when the vast majority of trade based on money and the taxes customs duties were collected in money) from the 12th -13th century, instead of the former primitive bartel-based commerce (barter dominated the economies orthodox world until the 17-18th centuries.)






4. HIGHER EDUCATION: The medieval appearance of universities and the medieval appearance of secular intellectuals,






5. CULTURE: Knights, the knight-culture, chivalric code, (and the technological effects of crusades from the Holy Land,)
Music and literature: courtly love, troubadours, Gregorian chant, Ars nova, Organum, Motet, Madrigal, Canon and Ballata, Liturgical drama, Novellas,
medieval western THEATER: Mystery or cycle plays, morality and passion plays, which developed into the renaissance theater, the direct ancestor of modern theaters.
Philosophy: Scholasticism and humanist philosophy,



6. The medieval usage of Latin alphabet and medieval spread of movable type printing,



7. TECHNOLOGY: The guild system is an association of artisans or merchants, which organized the training education, and directed master's exam system for artisians. Due to the compulsory foreign studies of the artisian master's candidates, the guilds played key role in the fast spread of technologies and industrial knowledge in the medieval Western World.



8. The defence systems & fortifications: The spread of stone/brick castle defense -systems, the town-walls of western cities from the 11th century. (In the orthodox world, only the capital cities had such a walls . The countries of the Balkan region and the territory of Russian states fell under Ottoman/Mongolian rule very rapidly - with a single decesive open-field battle - due to the lack of the networks of stone/brick castles and fortresses in these countries. The only exception was the greek inhabited Byzantine territories which were well fortified.)



9. FINEARTS and ARCHITECTURE: western architecture, sculpture paintings and fine-arts: the Romanesque style, the Gothic style and the Renaissance style.
The orthodox church buildings and „palaces(?)” were very little, they had primitive structure and poor decorations, their style were influenced by non-European arabic and persian influenced Byzantine ornamentics.







The renaissance & humanism , the reformation and the enlightenment did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries.
Before 1870, the industrialization that had developed in Western and Central Europe and the United States did not extend in any significant way to the rest of the world. In Eastern Europe, industrialization lagged far behind, and started only in the 20th century.
Their infrastructural and economic development was also very very slow, many determinant factors of civilization (railways, the electrification of cities, drain & sewer systems, water pipe systems, telecommuncations etc... spreaded many many decades (60-80 years) later. It is no wonder that their contribution in science technology and innovations are completly negligible in Human history by the WESTERN standards.

[Era]

There's no such thing as Balkan mentality. I see no similarities with any of of them.

[Styrian Mujo]

Balkan (east of Croatia) culture is closer to Turkish and Caucasian culture than to western European culture but closer to the later than to the Arab world of course. After all the Balkans is defined by the Ottoman imperial heritage but even before the expansion of the Ottoman empire the majority of what is now considered Balkan was part of the eastern Christian world and not part of the western Frankish and Roman Christendom.

[Styrian Mujo]

There's no such thing as Balkan mentality. I see no similarities with any of of them.
I find that quite the opposite is true.

[Minesweeper]

Just Look your average dark pigmentation. your weird less european balkan look, your semi-asian orthodox culture, and your less european balkanic gene poll. It is no wonder that Hungarians traditionally call the balkanites as gypsy folks.

We share Asian genes brother, let's not fight over few drops of blood. :D

[StormBringer]

Nvm. Misinterpreted the map

[blogen]

Dude you are a subhuman, who thinks hungarians are some kind of lost mongol-turanid people in the middle of central europe and are proud of hungarian porn industry. You use the term ''grek'o'' or ''vlach'' without knowing their meaning.

Dear Albanian goatfucker! Go and fuck your goats! Oh, sorry, the damned Albo refugees don't have goats when they sneak on the Hungarian border into the civilizaton. A short message for your nation from a Hungarian bus station:

http://jarokelo.hu/_data/_media_images/867fed5f0c2e6b22d034accbf2e50e32dbeec3b9.jpg
("Get out with the parasitic garbage migrants, shot a Kosovar rat!")

[Stears]

We share Asian genes brother, let's not fight over few drops of blood. :D

Pffff.

Hungarians are genetically more european than most slavic speaking people (who contain more Asian mongoloid Y and mt.DNA haplogroup markers), but all Northern Germanic nations (incl. Northern Germany too) have higher ratio of Mongolid haplogroup markers . See the ratio of Central Asian haplogroup „Q” and the other mongoloid haplogroup marker „N” (aka. N1C1) markers in the largest genetic database and CHART of European nations:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

And see the high ratio of middle-eastern haplogroup markers (various „J”) and african negroid (E1b1) in all balkan populations (inc. Romania). De facto, these nations populations genetically are less European than Hungarians.







Dodecad Autosomal genetic researches:


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TQi3F5YM3QI/AAAAAAAADDE/fFHcxFpL6gI/s1600/ADMIXTURE_15.png


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3cndwjJ_-Nc/Te9zmB25uKI/AAAAAAAAAhE/Jy_wc5x6tPo/s1600/ADMIXTURE_12.png


That's why balkanites look weird by Western European standards.

[Pahli]

Balkan (east of Croatia) culture is closer to Turkish and Caucasian culture than to western European culture but closer to the later than to the Arab world of course. After all the Balkans is defined by the Ottoman imperial heritage but even before the expansion of the Ottoman empire the majority of what is now considered Balkan was part of the eastern Christian world and not part of the western Frankish and Roman Christendom.

Only Bosniaks, Sandzaks and some muslim Albanians are close to Turkish culture.

[Minesweeper]

Pffff.


Hungarians are genetically more european than most slavic speaking people (who contain more Asian mongoloid Y and mt.DNA haplogroup markers), but all Northern Germanic nations (incl. Northern Germany too) have higher ratio of Mongolid haplogroup markers . See the ratio of Central Asian haplogroup „Q” and the other mongoloid haplogroup marker „N” (aka. N1C1) markers in the largest genetic database and CHART of European nations:




And see the high ratio of middle-eastern haplogroup markers (various „J”) and african negroid (E1b1) in all balkan populations (inc. Romania).





Dodecad Autosomal genetic researches:


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TQi3F5YM3QI/AAAAAAAADDE/fFHcxFpL6gI/s1600/ADMIXTURE_15.png


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3cndwjJ_-Nc/Te9zmB25uKI/AAAAAAAAAhE/Jy_wc5x6tPo/s1600/ADMIXTURE_12.png


That's why balkanites look weird by Western European standards.

Let's honor the great Khans borther! Who cares about Western Europe and the multiculti paradise.

[Stears]

Skin tone map:
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/Map_of_skin_hue_equi.png


Hair color map
http://uclahealthservices.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/hair_color_map_europe.png


Eye color map:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ilng4Lm9CI0/UKoaYrEoD_I/AAAAAAAAATw/8NebRqUEAOk/s1600/eyecolour.png

[Styrian Mujo]

Only Bosniaks, Sandzaks and some muslim Albanians are close to Turkish culture.
Yeah Serbs and Bulgarians are closer to French and German peoples and are completly different from Bosniaks and Albanians:rolleyes:

[pelikarski]

Closer to other Europeans with few exceptions of people with Oriental outlook and behavior

[Dylan]

Sometimes they remind me of Basques, but this has more to do with national conflicts than any real sort of cultural similarities.

[Stears]

Closer to other Europeans with few exceptions of people with Oriental outlook and behavior

And their culture? They are in different (orthodox) civilization.And their genetic.make-up?

[Kastrioti1443]

Only Bosniaks, Sandzaks and some muslim Albanians are close to Turkish culture.

I do not know what 'turkish culture' is since turkish culture is itself a mix of different things, but if on culture we mean dances, national or folk costumes, mythology, legends, language, epic stories, mentality, honor values, muslim Albanians are of course much nearer to other Albanians than anyone else.


bullshit maps not based on any study

A real pigmentation map of Europe done 80 years ago, based totally on native populations from villages. It took 10 years to complete this study.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Map_pigmentation_in_Europe.png

[Imamudin]

Balkan (east of Croatia) culture is closer to Turkish and Caucasian culture than to western European culture but closer to the later than to the Arab world of course. After all the Balkans is defined by the Ottoman imperial heritage but even before the expansion of the Ottoman empire the majority of what is now considered Balkan was part of the eastern Christian world and not part of the western Frankish and Roman Christendom.

The Caucasus is a completely foreign world from Turkey or the Balkans.

[Pahli]

I do not know what 'turkish culture' is since turkish culture is itself a mix of different things, but if on culture we mean dances, national or folk costumes, mythology, legends, language, epic stories, mentality, honor values, muslim Albanians are of course much nearer to other Albanians than anyone else.

Thats only why I wrote some, I guess the majority are closer to Albanians than Turks :)

[Stears]

I do not know what 'turkish culture' is since turkish culture is itself a mix of different things, but if on culture we mean dances, national or folk costumes, mythology, legends, language, epic stories, mentality, honor values, muslim Albanians are of course much nearer to other Albanians than anyone else.



A real pigmentation map of Europe done 80 years ago, based totally on native populations from villages. It took 10 years to complete this study.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Map_pigmentation_in_Europe.png

fantasy map.

[Corporate_Demolisher]

IMO, slightly closer to Near Eastern mentality, especially when conpared to Anglo-Saxon mentality.

[TheMaestro]

IMO, slightly closer to Near Eastern mentality, especially when conpared to Anglo-Saxon mentality.

True, Superior saxons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auiYBtx-Vxw&t=127s&ab_channel=13Cooks

[Benyzero]

True, Superior saxons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auiYBtx-Vxw&t=127s&ab_channel=13Cooks

I really don't get this kind of female behavior, is she likes the attention in some weird way or genuinely pissed, probably the combination of the two. "You don't know me"...-Sure Kelly you are very misterious.

[Chocolate_Hound]

To Turks I would say Balkans share mentality with, Arabs though not at all.

[bvnny]

More like a combination of the two

[Dick]

True, Superior saxons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auiYBtx-Vxw&t=127s&ab_channel=13Cooks

Anglos can act retarded and ghetto as fuck. People from the Balkans are more humble in mentality, probably what westerners were like decades ago. i wouldn't call it southern mentality either since most Italians & Greeks I've met are obnoxious pricks.

[Daco Celtic]

Anglos can act retarded and ghetto as fuck. People from the Balkans are more humble in mentality, probably what westerners were like decades ago. i wouldn't call it southern mentality either since most Italians & Greeks I've met are obnoxious pricks.

Racist and hurtful

[Celestia]

Racist and hurtful

He’s not lying, I can act a little ghetto if the right song comes on.

[Daco Celtic]

He’s not lying, I can act a little ghetto if the right song comes on.

https://i.imgur.com/N6s70BL.jpg

[TheForeigner]

Anglos can act retarded and ghetto as fuck. People from the Balkans are more humble in mentality, probably what westerners were like decades ago. i wouldn't call it southern mentality either since most Italians & Greeks I've met are obnoxious pricks.

Greeks are Balkan too though. I would say the piglet is right though. There is a Turkish/Near Eastern influence in Balkan culture and mentality.

[Dick]

Greeks are Balkan too though. I would say the piglet is right though. There is a Turkish/Near Eastern influence in Balkan culture and mentality.

Greeks are not Balkan, they're the same shit as Italians imo, but then again the term Balkan is iffy also.

[TheForeigner]

Greeks are not Balkan, they're the same shit as Italians imo, but then again the term Balkan is iffy also.

Why did the Fourth Crusade even happen, if Greeks were regarded as similar to Italians. Venetians and French and other Westerners didn't see it like that and it was for centuries that Greeks were seen as Balkan and very Eastern. Only very recently because of EU membership and being in NATO too, they are regarded as Western usually. I remember hearing that there was even some opposition to letting Greece in the EU decades ago because they are Orthodox, but they let them in in light of the legacy of Ancient Greece and other factors.

[Dick]

Why did the Fourth Crusade even happen, if Greeks were regarded as similar to Italians. Venetians and French and other Westerners didn't see it like that and it was for centuries that Greeks were seen as Balkan and very Eastern. Only very recently because of EU membership and being in NATO too, they are regarded as Western usually. I remember hearing that there was even some opposition to letting Greece in the EU decades ago because they are Orthodox, but they let them in in light of the legacy of Ancient Greece and other factors.

Russia is Orthodox, does that make them Balkan? I don't even consider Romania and Bulgaria Balkan. They're more like East Europeans and more similar to Hungarians. In my opinion, the true "Balkans" are Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and northern Albanians.

[TheForeigner]

Russia is Orthodox, does that make them Balkan? I don't even consider Romania and Bulgaria Balkan. They're more like East Europeans and more similar to Hungarians. In my opinion, the true "Balkans" are Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and northern Albanians.

To me all SE Europe is Balkan(Romania + Balkan peninsula but without Slovenia), but they are not all similar. Croatia for instance is more like Central Europe culturally. The rest of the Balkans though has some affinities with Turkey, especially more the Muslim areas and people. Russia and some other ex-Soviet areas are similar to Balkans imo.

[Dick]

To me all SE Europe is Balkan(Romania + Balkan peninsula but without Slovenia), but they are not all similar. Croatia for instance is more like Central Europe culturally. The rest of the Balkans though has some affinities with Turkey, especially more the Muslim areas and people. Russia and some other ex-Soviet areas are similar to Balkans imo.

Well I'm going by "In real life" experience and the people I've met throughout my journeys. I've even visited Bulgaria and they definitely are not the same as Ex-Yugoslavs (the OG Balkanites) for example. The country is like the epitome of the Iron Curtain and full of midgets that look Ukrainian, mind you their women are okay looking.

[TheForeigner]

Well I'm going by "In real life" experience and the people I've met throughout my journeys. I've even visited Bulgaria and they definitely are not the same as Ex-Yugoslavs (the OG Balkanites) for example. The country is like the epitome of the Iron Curtain and full of midgets that look Ukrainian, mind you their women are okay looking.

But not everyone in the Balkans has to be exactly the same, just similar enough. Plus to a large extent it's a geographical term and some countries like Croatia are more different culturally because of Catholicism and their centuries long political and cultural links with Hungary and Habsburg Monarchy. I think Croatia is culturally more like Hungary and Catholic Slavic countries of East-Central Europe.

[ixulescu]

Well I'm going by "In real life" experience and the people I've met throughout my journeys. I've even visited Bulgaria and they definitely are not the same as Ex-Yugoslavs (the OG Balkanites) for example. The country is like the epitome of the Iron Curtain and full of midgets that look Ukrainian, mind you their women are okay looking.

Ukrainians are not midgets, they're taller than Russians.

[Aldaris]

They were never fully cleansed like Spain and some of them still unfortunately bear the influence.

[Perunovsin]

I would not include Romania into balkans for sure, the mentality of these people is unlike Yugoslav, or Bulgarian mentality, but I would include Hungary, they are pretty similar to us, and pretty cool overall

[GDDR6]

...but I would include Hungary, they are pretty similar to us, and pretty cool overall

Don't insult Hungarians comparing them to yourself, they didn't take part in genocide.

[Perunovsin]

Don't insult Hungarians comparing them to yourself, they didn't take part in genocide.

When I come in contact with polish people like you, I definitely want to commit genocide, as do many western people, too .... your inherited fear and magnetic deflection
of change (including improvement) will once again be your downfall, mark my words ...I just hope the small percentage of former nobility survives, or else the entropy will take you all

[GDDR6]

When I come in contact with polish people like you, I definitely want to commit genocide, as do many western people, too .... your inherited fear and magnetic deflection
of change (including improvement) will once again be your downfall, mark my words ...I just hope the small percentage of former nobility survives, or else the entropy will take you all

Listen, I understand your mental ilness but there is a cure for paranoid schizophrenia. Go visit a doctor and save us from your insane thoughts.

[Perunovsin]

Listen, I understand your mental ilness but there is a cure for paranoid schizophrenia. Go visit a doctor and save us from your insane thoughts.

God I hate you guys, Im going to war alongside anyone that will be killing you guys in the future, thats for sure, then ill give you something to fucking fear

[TheMaestro]

God I hate you guys, Im going to war alongside anyone that will be killing you guys in the future, thats for sure, then ill give you something to fucking fear

Did you get gangbanged by Polaks or what? What is your hatred against them coming from.

[Perunovsin]

Did you get gangbanged by Polaks or what? What is your hatred against them coming from.

Man I didnt get no anal penetration, but after working with them for over 7 months, I finally understand that Germans didn't hate them just because propaganda told them to

[rothaer]

Why did the Fourth Crusade even happen, if Greeks were regarded as similar to Italians. Venetians and French and other Westerners didn't see it like that and it was for centuries that Greeks were seen as Balkan and very Eastern.

Yes and even the latter. At that time you had also the Byzantine Empire and the contemporary Greeks were to a big proportion simply not even Europeans, but indigenous Anatolians.

[Peterski]

Yes and even the latter. At that time you had also the Byzantine Empire and the contemporary Greeks were to a big proportion simply not even Europeans, but indigenous Anatolians.

Anatolian Greeks have European Greek admixture, especially if we are talking about Greeks from Western Anatolia and Cappadocian Greeks (I think there is a Cappadocian Greek sample in Global25 so you can check).

[rothaer]

Anatolian Greeks have European Greek admixture, especially if we are talking about Greeks from Western Anatolia and Cappadocian Greeks (I think there is a Cappadocian Greek sample in Global25 so you can check).

There will be a genetic cline, no doubt. So they are not Levantines or Armenians f. i. But what exactly do you mean with European admixture? Will in terms of 23andMe f. i. anything Euopean show up for a Cappadokian? I would be astounded if there would be more than 5% European shown.

In contrast a Thrakian (Thrakia inhabitant) gets some 25 or more % West Asian, I think.

[Peterski]

But what exactly do you mean with European admixture?

I mean admixture from Greek settlers who came from the European part of Greece. They are a mix of Greeks and Anatolians, just like East Germans are a mix of Germanics and Slavs.

I don't know how much European they would score in 23andMe. First of all, how much European do Greeks from Europe score in 23andMe?

For example a Cretan Greek result in 23andMe ???

=====

BTW these Greeks are also interesting, they score very similar to the ancient DNA sample KER1 (from Kerch Peninsula):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_Greek

KER1 is in Global25.

[rothaer]

I mean admixture from Greek settlers who came from the European part of Greece. They are a mix of Greeks and Anatolians, just like East Germans are a mix of Germanics and Slavs.
I don't know how much European they would score in 23andMe. First of all, how much European do Greeks from Europe score in 23andMe?
For example a Cretan Greek result in 23andMe ???

A good question. I don't know, but I guess a Cretean would score kind of 25% West Asian and 75% Greece & Balkan (just a guess).

You say a (antique) Greek from today Greece is European. But in a a genetic sense I don't know if an antique Greek from Rhodos was notably different to an indigenous Lydian at the the couast of Asia Minor. What do you think?

[Peterski]

I wonder how much "European" would a Bronze Age Mycenaean sample submitted to 23andMe score in their algorithm? Or a Minoan?

[Peterski]

You say a (antique) Greek from today Greece is European.

Greek Islanders are still very similar to ancient Greeks, as well as to South Italians (because South Italians are also largely descended from ancient Greeks).

Modern Mainland Greeks are more northern-shifted than ancient Greeks due to mixing with various peoples (including Slavic admixture in Northern Greece), but they still surely have a lot of their ancestry from ancient Greeks.


But in a a genetic sense I don't know if an antique Greek from Rhodos was notably different to an indigenous Lydian at the the couast of Asia Minor. What do you think?

Hard to say, we don't have any Lydian samples.

But I think they could be noticeably different.

Lydians could be like modern Cypriots, which still makes them different from Insular Greeks.

[catgeorge]

Ancient Lydians are the people from Smyrna and Ephesus.

They were highly cultured and wealthy and established majority of industry on mainland Greece.

[GDDR6]

God I hate you guys, Im going to war alongside anyone that will be killing you guys in the future, thats for sure, then ill give you something to fucking fear

Oh, I am scared now. Do you or your family still keep some srbosjek, a main croatian weapon from the WW2?

[Blondie]

I would not include Romania into balkans for sure, the mentality of these people is unlike Yugoslav, or Bulgarian mentality, but I would include Hungary, they are pretty similar to us, and pretty cool overall

Wrong, croats are similar to central euros like hungarians, but hungarians are not similar to balkanites.

[Carpatz]

Wrong, croats are similar to central euros like hungarians, but hungarians are not similar to balkanites.

Even the Croat agrees that I'm more central europen than u :p

[rothaer]

I wonder how much "European" would a Bronze Age Mycenaean sample submitted to 23andMe score in their algorithm? Or a Minoan?

It would be my ultimate desiderate to have 23andMe's ancestry composition calculator as an off-line tool that you can feed with whatever raw data!! (Including their performance to phase, if you also have the raw data of one or two parents.)

[rothaer]

Oh, I am scared now. Do you or your family still keep some srbosjek, a main croatian weapon from the WW2?

I first had a bad consciousness for getting off topic by eventually discussing heritage calculations with Tomenable, but when I see these derailings I feel less guilty. :thumb001: :)

[Perunovsin]

Wrong, croats are similar to central euros like hungarians, but hungarians are not similar to balkanites.

Wrong

[Perunovsin]

I first had a bad consciousness for getting off topic by eventually discussing heritage calculations with Tomenable, but when I see these derailings I feel less guilty. :thumb001: :)

Never feel bad for a pole

[Benyzero]

Wrong

wlong

[Blondie]

Wrong

What wrong? Austria-Hungary was the definition of Central Europe, hungarians are catholic, and genetically closest to other central euros, just like culturally.

[GDDR6]

I first had a bad consciousness for getting off topic by eventually discussing heritage calculations with Tomenable, but when I see these derailings I feel less guilty. :thumb001: :)

See his posts insulting my country and my nation then you will see why I'm here saying this.

[Axrael]

See his posts insulting my country and my nation then you will see why I'm here saying this.

But you are Japanese. What do you care about ching chong?

[GDDR6]

But you are Japanese. What do you care about ching chong?

I'm Europid

[Axrael]

Even the Croat agrees that I'm more central europen than u :p

You are the Central Europeanest, homie.

[Archduke]

Most are much closer to Turks. The Balkans up to Bosnia were 500 years part of one very important geopolitical structure called the Ottoman empire. Most of these 500 years, all Balkanites were part of another structure within the Ottoman empire which was called Rum Millet. This Rum Millet structured our culture as we see it today and it is definitely not European. If someone says otherwise, he is not realistic and lives in his own world.

During the 20th century things have changed, as the new Balkan states joined different geopolitical structures (part of the Eastern Block, puppets of Western Europe, or in between). During the 21th century, all of us struggle to be part of another structure, the EU (except Serbia).

Nevertheless, 150-200 years being closer to Europe, cannot be influental. 5 centuries (some even longer) being part if a geopolitical structure which is muslim and oriental is still very much relevant even today

[Italicus]

Anglos can act retarded and ghetto as fuck. People from the Balkans are more humble in mentality, probably what westerners were like decades ago. i wouldn't call it southern mentality either since most Italians & Greeks I've met are obnoxious pricks.

C'mon bro, I'm only kind of an obnoxious prick

[Axrael]

A wise man once said that Balkans are an extention of Middle East.

[Hulu]

Most are much closer to Turks.

Maybe it was different for Albania but there was never any connection with the Turks because even the local rulers were Albanian. Add to that our lose connection to islam it didn't affect us. I would think it should have affected you less because of the religion. So you get this vague mass of people who barely have any contact with Turks or Europeans to be influenced on for centuries. People went by instinct so that didn't allow for outside influences. The Albanian monarchy who came after Ottoman Empire tried to be European but with a local flavor nonetheless. So did communism, we were isolated except for a brief period in the 50s with the Soviet Union so not a chance to be influenced much.
All this being said, we were different with one another as well. I see a big difference in lifestyle and mentality between neighboring regions of central Albania, the ghegs just above the river Shkumbin and the tosks just below it. And forget about differences with Kosovo after they emerged from ex Yugoslavia.

https://wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/7/7c/Albania_Regions_map.png/450px-Albania_Regions_map.png

[Axrael]

Maybe it was different for Albania but there was never any connection with the Turks because even the local rulers were Albanian. Add to that our lose connection to islam it didn't affect us. I would think it should have affected you less because of the religion. So you get this vague mass of people who barely have any contact with Turks or Europeans to be influenced on for centuries. People went by instinct so that didn't allow for outside influences. The Albanian monarchy who came after Ottoman Empire tried to be European but with a local flavor nonetheless. So did communism, we were isolated except for a brief period in the 50s with the Soviet Union so not a chance to be influenced much.
All this being said, we were different with one another as well. I see a big difference in lifestyle and mentality between neighboring regions of central Albania, the ghegs just above the river Shkumbin and the tosks just below it. And forget about differences with Kosovo after they emerged from ex Yugoslavia.

Cope, and I fuck Albos.

[Insuperable]

Culturally can be understood, but in what other way mentally?

[Hulu]

Cope, and I fuck Albos.

shush incel

[Arūnas]

can't decide


https://youtu.be/fzOvk2hzTeM

[E1b1b]

They had a Near Eastern mentality but the younger generations are slowly adopting western cuck-simp values.

I would say Serbs, Albanians, and Montenegrins are the most resistant to this change.

[Axrael]

shush incel

I fucked your mom, not so much of an incel. Stfu and reflect. Reflect on your pussy ass lmfao.

[Archduke]

Maybe it was different for Albania but there was never any connection with the Turks because even the local rulers were Albanian. Add to that our lose connection to islam it didn't affect us. I would think it should have affected you less because of the religion. So you get this vague mass of people who barely have any contact with Turks or Europeans to be influenced on for centuries. People went by instinct so that didn't allow for outside influences. The Albanian monarchy who came after Ottoman Empire tried to be European but with a local flavor nonetheless. So did communism, we were isolated except for a brief period in the 50s with the Soviet Union so not a chance to be influenced much.
All this being said, we were different with one another as well. I see a big difference in lifestyle and mentality between neighboring regions of central Albania, the ghegs just above the river Shkumbin and the tosks just below it. And forget about differences with Kosovo after they emerged from ex Yugoslavia.

https://wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/7/7c/Albania_Regions_map.png/450px-Albania_Regions_map.png

Sorry but what you say is totally unrealistic. Isolated on the Balkans would be probably only some Greek islands. Albanians along with Bosniaks are the most oriental on the Balkans culturally. The fact that you accepted Islam makes you totally open to the Ottomans and definitely not isolated.

Local rulers were Albanians because they copy/pasted Ottoman way of life. If they were isolated as you say, Albanians would have fought for their independence long before the Balkan wars.

[Archduke]

They had a Near Eastern mentality but the younger generations are slowly adopting western cuck-simp values.

I would say Serbs, Albanians, and Montenegrins are the most resistant to this change.

You can check Greeks if you want to see other Balkanites in few decades. But still, Greeks are also very much oriental.

[Axrael]

You can check Greeks if you want to see other Balkanites in few decades. But still,Greeks are also very much oriental.

But you have tsifteteli in you, wouldn't your Oriental statements upset the other Greekos?

[Hulu]

Sorry but what you say is totally unrealistic. Isolated on the Balkans would be probably only some Greek islands. Albanians along with Bosniaks are the most oriental on the Balkans culturally. The fact that you accepted Islam makes you totally open to the Ottomans and definitely not isolated.

Local rulers were Albanians because they copy/pasted Ottoman way of life. If they were isolated as you say, Albanians would have fought for their independence long before the Balkan wars.

But they did, Ali Pashe Tepelena in the south and Bushatli in the north rebelled eventually. And turks fought them mercilessly. But they did have some autonomy before they tried to break it off. Which was the reason why it lasted so long. Things weren't that bad to warrant national uprising, they were local ones. And Albanians were greedy with personal power to get organized in a national level. The rest of you were in worse conditions that's why you fought harder.

[Axrael]

But they did, Ali Pashe Tepelena in the south and Bushatli in the north rebelled eventually. And turks fought them mercilessly. But they did have some autonomy before they tried to break it off. Which was the reason why it lasted so long. Things weren't that bad to warrant national uprising, they were local ones. And Albanians were greedy with personal power to get organized in a national level. The rest of you were in worse conditions that's why you fought harder.

Give me a hot brunette Gheg girl that is completely traditional and faithful and I would protect her and have babies with her all my life.

[Hulu]

You can check Greeks if you want to see other Balkanites in few decades. But still, Greeks are also very much oriental.

But greeks were closer to them, there was a lot of back and forth movements during Byzantine and Ottoman empires.

[Hulu]

Give me a hot brunette Gheg girl that is completely traditional and faithful and I would protect her and have babies with her all my life.

I said shush. Gheg girls dont go for incels.

[Dušan]

Most are much closer to Turks. The Balkans up to Bosnia were 500 years part of one very important geopolitical structure called the Ottoman empire. Most of these 500 years, all Balkanites were part of another structure within the Ottoman empire which was called Rum Millet. This Rum Millet structured our culture as we see it today and it is definitely not European. If someone says otherwise, he is not realistic and lives in his own world.


Actually, except of N. Macedonia, the rest of west Balkans was less than 500 years part of Ottoman empire.

https://i.imgur.com/Icl9vPj.jpg

[Axrael]

I said shush. Gheg girls dont go for incels.

I am not an incel. I don't like Serbian girls they have a gypsy horse face.

[Archduke]

But they did, Ali Pashe Tepelena in the south and Bushatli in the north rebelled eventually. And turks fought them mercilessly. But they did have some autonomy before they tried to break it off. Which was the reason why it lasted so long. Things weren't that bad to warrant national uprising, they were local ones. And Albanians were greedy with personal power to get organized in a national level. The rest of you were in worse conditions that's why you fought harder.

If it makes you happy to think that you were isolated and that the Ottoman influence was minimal, then let it be like that.

[Harkonnen]

they are wot

[Hulu]

King Zog and his sisters, 1920s. This is how we emerged from Ottoman empire. Did Bosnia have anything like it at the time?

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/king-zog-of-albania-photographed-in-the-royal-palace-with-his-sisters-picture-id79668615?s=612x612

[Archduke]

But you have tsifteteli in you, wouldn't your Oriental statements upset the other Greekos?

If they do that, they would run from themselves. Some people are aware that the most you run from somethig, the more it appears in your life.

[Archduke]

King Zog and his sisters, 1920s. This is how we emerged from Ottoman empire. Did Bosnia have anything like it at the time?

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/king-zog-of-albania-photographed-in-the-royal-palace-with-his-sisters-picture-id79668615?s=612x612

See the towns and the villages during that time around the Balkans - even in the twenties, they looked more or less oriental. All Balkan states demolished Ottoman buildings and tried to make their cities more European.

Especially Albanian towns and villages in Macedonia still in the 21th century do look oriental. You see mosqu. Houses have big fences, as tradition, before it was useful as they wanted to hide the women. Albanians want to show to the others how much money they have, all of them want Mercedes, Audi, Bmw. When they work in the west and start eventually to have money, they build huge houses in their home village (doesnt matter that they go there twice in 5 years), again to show how good they are to others. These and many other things describe the typical oriental mentality.

[Dušan]

Bosnian Muslims were completly Oriental in way of life, until communism 1945.
But Christians were not.

This is video from 1941.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFSx2QKiOrU

In first part are Bosnian Muslims, from 3:45 Bosnian Serbs (with two Gipsy musician).

Completely different behaviour and way of life.
Just compare difference in clothing, the position of women in society...

[Archduke]

Actually, except of N. Macedonia, the rest of west Balkans was less than 500 years part of Ottoman empire.

https://i.imgur.com/Icl9vPj.jpg

Actually Slovenia and most of Croatia were not part of this Ottoman geopolitical sphere of influence. Unfortunately for them, they became part of Yugoslavia, which was practically an offspring of the Ottoman sphere.

[Hulu]

See the towns and the villages during that time around the Balkans - even in the twenties, they looked more or less oriental. All Balkan states demolished Ottoman buildings and tried to make their cities more European.

Especially Albanian towns and villages in Macedonia still in the 21th century do look oriental. You see mosqu. Houses have big fences, as tradition, before it was useful as they wanted to hide the women. Albanians want to show to the others how much money they have, all of them want Mercedes, Audi, Bmw. When they work in the west and start eventually to have money, they build huge houses in their home village (doesnt matter that they go there twice in 5 years), again to show how good they are to others. These and many other things describe the typical oriental mentality.

We didn't inherit any mosques except the one in the center of Tirana which was preserved. The rest were built after 1990s. And I wish they built something but they didn't. A tiny bridge in some corner of Tirana is their biggest legacy :lol: Their attitude was more like "kill yourselves".

[Dušan]

Actually Slovenia and most of Croatia were not part of this Ottoman geopolitical sphere of influence. Unfortunately for them, they became part of Yugoslavia, which was practically an offspring of the Ottoman sphere.

Some 60-70% of Croatia was part of Ottoman empire for at least 100 years, as you can see on map.

[Arūnas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVLma25g6Pk

[Archduke]

Some 60-70% of Croatia was part of Ottoman empire for at least 100 years, as you can see on map.

It's good that you like the details. But...

Besides these "at least 100 years", Croats existed also outside them. And they were part of a culture which was non existent in Serbia for example (except in Vojvodina).

They are also Catholic and weren't part of Rum Millet.

[Varda]

It's good that you like the details. But...

Besides these "at least 100 years", Croats existed also outside them. And they were part of a culture which was non existent in Serbia for example (except in Vojvodina).

They are also Catholic and weren't part of Rum Millet.

Catholics (today Croatians) of Bosnia and Herzegovina lived under the Ottoman rule about 400 years. Some parts of modern Croatia were up to 200 years or even more under the Ottomans. For example Imotski was under the Otooman from 1492 to 1717 (225 years) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imotski#History
Percentage of Croatians in Croatia who have origin from BiH only in the last 100 years is huge.

[Dušan]

They are also Catholic and weren't part of Rum Millet.

So?
Bosnian Croats Catholic mass.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Catholic_mass_in_Bosnia%2C_illustration%2C_1901.jp g

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Catholic_mass_in_Bosnia,_illustration,_1901.j pg


Way more Oriental than Bosnian Serbs, and closer to Bosnian Muslims.

[Varda]

Catholics (today Croatians) of Bosnia and Herzegovina lived under the Ottoman rule about 400 years. Some parts of modern Croatia were up to 200 years or even more under the Ottomans. For example Imotski was under the Otooman from 1492 to 1717 (225 years) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imotski#History
Percentage of Croatians in Croatia who have origin from BiH only in the last 100 years is huge.

Imotski was 225 years under the Ottomans, 80 years under the Venetians (1717-1797), 112 years under the Habsburgs (1797-1805, 1814-1918) and 9 years under the French rule (1805-1814). It was almost almost 3 times longer Ottoman than Venetian, and more Ottoman than Venetian, Habsburg and French together.

[Insuperable]

So?
Bosnian Croats Catholic mass.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Catholic_mass_in_Bosnia%2C_illustration%2C_1901.jp g

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Catholic_mass_in_Bosnia,_illustration,_1901.j pg


Way more Oriental than Bosnian Serbs, and closer to Bosnian Muslims.

Haha, more oriental than Bosnian Serbs. Serbs living in a fantasy world.

[Dušan]

Haha, more oriental than Bosnian Serbs. Serbs living in a fantasy world.

Feeling offended? Not my problem.
We have videos and photos of 80-100 years ago. They tell everything.

[Insuperable]

Feeling offended? Not my problem.
We have videos and photos of 80-100 years ago. They tell everything.

Serbs very funny.

[Insuperable]

Imotski was 225 years under the Ottomans, 80 years under the Venetians (1717-1797), 112 years under the Habsburgs (1797-1805, 1814-1918) and 9 years under the French rule (1805-1814). It was almost almost 3 times longer Ottoman than Venetian, and more Ottoman than Venetian, Habsburg and French together.

225 or so years is max for Croatian lands yet Imotski and people feel unoriental.

[Archduke]

Imotski was 225 years under the Ottomans, 80 years under the Venetians (1717-1797), 112 years under the Habsburgs (1797-1805, 1814-1918) and 9 years under the French rule (1805-1814). It was almost almost 3 times longer Ottoman than Venetian, and more Ottoman than Venetian, Habsburg and French together.

So the conclusion is that the last time a Turk set foot there was around 300 years ago. Then up to 1918 it was exclusively part of the Western sphere of influence (201 years). After that it was part of the Balkan-Ottoman based Yugoslavia.

Nish for example didn't have even one day being part of the western sphere of influence.

[Varda]

So the conclusion is that the last time a Turk set foot there was around 300 years ago. Then up to 1918 it was exclusively part of the Western sphere of influence (201 years). After that it was part of the Balkan-Ottoman based Yugoslavia.

Nish for example didn't have even one day being part of the western sphere of influence.

Serbian army liberated Niš from Ottomans on January 11, 1878 (not some western power), and since then Niš is parts of modern Serbia.

Parts of present day Serbia which were the shortest period under the Ottomans are Bačka 161 years (1526-1687) and Banat 165 years (1551-1716). Bačka was under the Habsburgs 231 years (1687-1918), and Banat 202 years (1716-1918).

[Varda]

So the conclusion is that the last time a Turk set foot there was around 300 years ago. Then up to 1918 it was exclusively part of the Western sphere of influence (201 years). After that it was part of the Balkan-Ottoman based Yugoslavia.

Nish for example didn't have even one day being part of the western sphere of influence.

Yugoslavia was not Balkan-Ottoman based. Both kingdom of Yugoslavia and communist Yugoslavia were pro-western, and anti-Soviet (except in the short period from 1945 to 1948). Kingdom of Yugoslavia was pro-French (and pro-British to some degree), and communist Yugoslavia was pro-British/American and western "Trojan Horse" in communist block. Because of that the United States has pumped several hundred billion $ in Yugoslavia from 1950 to 1970. Due to this money Yugoslavia was industrialized, the standard has risen, and YU became military the strongest Balkan country. Standard in communist Yugoslavia was quite higher than in Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, Hungary, Soviet Union etc. Country was open towards the west culturally, for example Yugoslavian pop and rock scene were the richest in the world after American and British. Non-Aligned Movement founded by Yugoslavian dictator Josip Broz Tito was one of the his anti-Soviet operations secretly arranged with Brits and Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement

[Archduke]

Yugoslavia was not Balkan-Ottoman based. Both kingdom of Yugoslavia and communist Yugoslavia were pro-western, and anti-Soviet (except in the short period from 1945 to 1948). Kingdom of Yugoslavia was pro-French (and pro-British to some degree), and communist Yugoslavia was pro-British/American and western "Trojan Horse" in communist block. Because of that the United States has pumped several hundred billion $ in Yugoslavia from 1950 to 1970. Due to this money Yugoslavia was industrialized, the standard has risen, and YU became military the strongest Balkan country. Standard in communist Yugoslavia was quite higher than in Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, Hungary, Soviet Union etc. Country was open towards the west culturally, for example Yugoslavian pop and rock scene were the richest in the world after American and British. Non-Aligned Movement founded by Yugoslavian dictator Josip Broz Tito was one of the his anti-Soviet operations secretly arranged with Brits and Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement

Don't forget that we tallk about mentality here. The way Yugoslavia was ruled during the years doesn't really matter.

You can count the years of Ottoman domination in each town in former Yugoslavia if you want. At the end, ex-yugo countries are closer to other Balkan states and Turkey. As I said, we can exclude Slovenia and more or less Croatia, but today they are heavily Balkan influenced because of Yugoslavia.

[Varda]

Don't forget that we tallk about mentality here. The way Yugoslavia was ruled during the years doesn't really matter.

You can count the years of Ottoman domination in each town in former Yugoslavia if you want. At the end, ex-yugo countries are closer to other Balkan states and Turkey. As I said, we can exclude Slovenia and more or less Croatia, but today they are heavily Balkan influenced because of Yugoslavia.

You said Yugoslavia was Ottoman based. It wasn't. Acually modernization and westernization of many Serbs, Bosniaks, Croatians etc, even Albaniabs to some degree happened in Yugoslavia. For example Bosniaks were almost fully Middle Eastern culturally, by way of life etc. and Yugoslavia (especally communist one) converted them to European like people. Mass education of all ethnicities started in communist Yugoslavia including Muslims women who were 100% illiterate before 1945 and whose only sense of existence was to produce children and to be some kind of slave for husband.