This is what you get ...

[Loki]

... when you (a European country) choose niggers to represent you internationally. No feeling of patriotism whatsoever. Pathetic, the French should hang their heads in shame for capitulating to these disgracefully stupid and arrogant monkeys.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8750302.stm

[Oinakos Growion]

And they still have to play the last game, so there's more time for more "drama"...

[Beorn]

No feeling of patriotism whatsoever.

Patrice Evra is very patriotic. Going by his words I'd say they have quite a team spirit. From the reaction to one of their team members being sent home in disgrace for facing up to an absolute shambles of a manager in Raymond Domenech, only goes to show that their spirit and unity is very real.

I for one back them on principle here.

[Loki]

Patrice Evra is very patriotic. Going by his words I'd say they have quite a team spirit. From the reaction to one of their team members being sent home in disgrace for facing up to an absolute shambles of a manager in Raymond Domenech, only goes to show that their spirit and unity is very real.

I for one back them on principle here.

It's not about them, though, that's the thing. It's about the French people and their national team. That's what they don't get.

Football has become way too commercialized. Wealthy footballers only care about their (super-sized) wallets (and egos).

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Captain Blackbeard
an absolute shambles of a manager in Raymond Domenech

Agreed, completely unprofessional, he’s out of a job at the end of the tournament and he clearly showed he couldn’t give a damn in France’s game against Mexico. He seems a petulant sort, apparently he doesn’t speak to half the squad, what way is that to perform? Whether you agree with the racial make up of the French squad is irrelevant to the point that they have (on paper) a “team” that should have been looking to progress far.

[Beorn]

It's about the French people and their national team.

Sorry, just coming back to the thread to add an outward question, but when you say "their" do you mean that as in 'it is their (white Frenchmen) team and not the players (blacks) team'? Or, do you simply mean they are only the players and they represent the Nation, so to button up and get on with things?


Anyway, the whole subject reminded me of the Dutch team and their famous bust-ups throughout tournament histories. I was looking to see if I could find something online but couldn't.

I remember one bust up involved the team with Cruyff back in the 70s, but wasn't there another one more recently in the 98 WC or the 2000 EC? What was that about?

Just wondering if any of the Dutch members could enlighten me. :)

[Loki]

Sorry, just coming back to the thread to add an outward question, but when you say "their" do you mean that as in 'it is their (white Frenchmen) team and not the players (blacks) team'? Or, do you simply mean they are only the players and they represent the Nation, so to button up and get on with things?


Same thing, really. If one plays for a national team, you support your country 100%, and it's not a personal thing. But yes, I think the fact that half of France's team members are non-French in reality adds massively to the breakdown of national patriotism. They don't really give a fuck about France, we know that very well.

[Guapo]

These French players are definitely not playing for their country. Like Loki said, they only care about their super-sized wallets and egos especially Anelka. Maybe Ireland should have bribed UEFA/FIFA to let them qualify instead of France.

[Falkata]

Well, remember that in 1998 and 2000 they won the World Cup and the Eurocup with many "coloured" players too

[Grumpy Cat]

These French players are definitely not playing for their country. Like Loki said, they only care about their super-sized wallets and egos especially Anelka. Maybe Ireland should have bribed UEFA/FIFA to let them qualify instead of France.

Ireland should have qualified.

http://blog.voucherme.my/images/09/handball.jpg

[Beorn]

Seems the French aren't the only ones attempting to break free from foreign managers.

England divided: how Terry tried to organise coup against Capello (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/england-divided-how-terry-tried-to-organise-coup-against-capello-2006139.html)

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Captain Blackbeard
Seems the French aren't the only ones attempting to break free from foreign managers.

Hmmm the difference being France had a successful team to lose, whilst England have been crap since 1990 (and not particularly brilliant in that tournament, took them all their effort to beat Belgium and Cameroon) regardless of the nationality of the manager.

England’s problem isn’t the manager, it’s the over paid players who seemingly can’t function for a couple of weeks without beer or sex, never mind discipline, fair enough they may be burned out after the domestic season but Terry’s whining proves the point. It’s the arrogance of a country that believes they should win just by virtue of turning up, the rest of world football moved on in the 1960’s, England didn’t. It’s a show piece league of teams built around top foreign talent, which makes our players look good when they are in the league but mediocre on the world stage.

Capello may, or may not, be the man for the job, presumably the FA are just smart enough to not hand over £6 million a season to some fool, but the FA want to start looking at the English ethos and the infrastructure of the game. Besides who is to replace him? Turner the turnip? Hoddle with his army of witch doctors? Other than Venables success on the back of a home crowd in 96 English managers have hardly been a success story have they?

[Beorn]

Hmmm the difference being France had a successful team to lose, whilst England have been crap since 1990

I think you flatter France and deny England an honour there.
Italia 90 was the furthest England had progressed since 66, and when playing the sweeper formation, they were a team to beat. Both Cameroon and Belgium had the fortune to meet that England team without Bryan Robson, who was the lynch pin of that successful sweeper formation which had the Dutch humiliated and the Egyptians reeling.

I wonder how much further England would have gone if Bryan Robson had remained fit and with an England side becoming more and more comfortable playing in the sweeper formation. I certainly consider the Germans to have been a weaker side by comparison at any rate. Ach! All the 'but ifs'.


England’s problem isn’t the managerI tend to disagree. It is the manager that should recognise his greatest team and/or concoct tactics which play to the strength of his given squad.

I won't bore you with historical comparisons, but suffice to say that Capello suffers the same stuttering inability as Sven Goran Erikson to decide with conviction the hopelessness of that bloody 4-4-2 formation.


it’s the over paid players who seemingly can’t function for a couple of weeks without beer or sex, never mind disciplineI'll be the first to say modern players certainly have different motivations than previous generations, but this excuse wears thin after a while. There still does exist the patriotic international player. I consider many in our current squad just as passionate as you or I. I certainly don't think the problem is dedication ... or certainly one that is a major factor.


It’s the arrogance of a country that believes they should win just by virtue of turning up, the rest of world football moved on in the 1960’s, England didn’t. That is mostly gutter press talk building up the team only to sell millions of papers the next in destroying them.


It’s a show piece league of teams built around top foreign talent, which makes our players look good when they are in the league but mediocre on the world stage. We have genuinely world class players. What we don't have is depth in available choices in order to ensure the chosen players know they are only as good as the last game.

How many times have we seen players playing carrying injuries or bad form and not being dropped? A severe lack of depth, I tell you.


but the FA want to start looking at the English ethos and the infrastructure of the game.They do. I would like to see the introduction of 2 foreign player maximum rule. Domestic and European. A reduction in wages, perhaps capped at £5000 a month too. And so much more.


Besides who is to replace him?I would back Roy Hodgeson (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2010/06/21/1987321/fulhams-roy-hodgson-keeping-liverpool-on-hold-until-england) for that honour. A tried and tested international manager with the added bonus of being knowledgeable in club football. And he is English and more aware of the English players and ethos, as it were.

All we need then is the gutter press to stop doing what they do worse/best.


Turner the turnip? Hoddle with his army of witch doctors? Other than Venables success on the back of a home crowd in 96 English managers have hardly been a success story have they?They have been unfortunate. Taylor was hounded at home, office and work, and was terribly undermined by the gutter press. I can't defend his poor choices in tactics and team selection, but hands up here: England weren't exactly overrun with great international players then.

Glenn Hoddle is another manager which managed to create a team with a decent selection of talent, and had better tactical acumen than previous managers, but again, the press hounded him out of the job and again England had to rebuild once more.

Terry Venables was a great manager. Had a real switched on attitude towards English football and knew how to apply the best tactics to get the best out of the squad of players he had. His downfall was FA infighting.

Kevin Keegan, although admittedly terrible for English football in that he relied upon a stagnant 4-4-2 to the detriment of the talent he had at his exposal, was at least honest in his route of going about things. Again, the press was his downfall and England had to start and build again.

It was only with the arrival of Sven, and the FA beginning to realise that steady ships produce greater results, did England start to shine again. The upset of that era was the youthfulness of talent and the inexperience they had combined with old hands having just been put out to pasture. Sven's downfall was his lack of bollocks in the ever tough cauldron of tournament football. He was too scared to attempt something different with his team. So we had the likes of Brazil rolling us over when we were the better team, he just sat there and folded. Injured players that weren't good enough. Introducing players that were carbon copies to ones coming off simply isn't good enough to change games.

Capello is the same. On Wednesday he will field the same team with the same tactics and go out with his bollocks tucked away safely inside.
Hopefully the unrest in the England camp will make him buck his ideas up, just as Sven was made to in the previous WC in regards to his diamond formation.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Captain Blackbeard
I tend to disagree. It is the manager that should recognise his greatest team and/or concoct tactics which play to the strength of his given squad.

Up until two weeks ago Capello could do no wrong…….let’s look at the reality, from a severely limited stock of talent he has lost arguably the two players, David Beckham and Rio Ferdinand, who put any heart into the team, Ferdinand has been a rock in defence and Beckham’s work rate is exceptional. A craftsman is only as good as the material he has to work with. I don’t believe the man is inflexible, he wouldn’t have won trophies otherwise. Presumably he is sticking to methods that guided England through qualification, so what’s changed? Capello himself has admitted that two years work is in danger of going down the toilet….and he doesn’t understand why.


I'll be the first to say modern players certainly have different motivations than previous generations, but this excuse wears thin after a while. There still does exist the patriotic international player. I consider many in our current squad just as passionate as you or I. I certainly don't think the problem is dedication ... or certainly one that is a major factor.

I’m not naïve, their patriotism, or lack of it, doesn’t concern me to much, it’s their ability to perform on the pitch that I wonder about. Love of country sounds nice but it is generally low down on the priorities of most men, I’ve known many who have served in the UK armed forces, Britain came a distant fourth after pay, potential career advancement and comradeship, a good friend of mine is part owner of a building firm, all due to his stint in the Royal Engineers, the reason he joined in the first place. Now undoubtedly many of the players become all teary eyed at the idea of playing for England but I think it is the lure of the world stage and the trophies that count more, hopefully it’s also the urge to win .Yet to get that they need to perform, which requires effort on their part as well as a good manager. What are the conditions in the German, Brazilian, Argentinean and Dutch camps? I don’t know but it might be worth Capello having a look because these teams win games.


That is mostly gutter press talk building up the team only to sell millions of papers the next in destroying them.

I agree for the most part, but you only have to see how England react after they score a goal it’s like they are waiting for the whistle to go, we’re England, we have scored blow the whistle ref! Look at Rooney’s tantrum the other night, look at the reaction to the, justifiable, critic of the English game by Beckenbauer. There is something childish about some of the England squad.


Hopefully the unrest in the England camp will make him buck his ideas up, just as Sven was made to in the previous WC in regards to his diamond formation.

It’s going to need more than Capello rethinking and it’s probably a bit much to ask, if you have a formula that has worked for two years reasonably well and all of a sudden it stutters to a halt then you’re going to need more than a few games to find out why.

[Treffie]

I wonder how many of these guys know the British/English national anthem? I'm always disappointed to see how many don't bother to sing - it's the least they could do, considering how big their wage packets are.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by KEN
I wonder how many of these guys know the British/English national anthem? I'm always disappointed to see how many don't bother to sing - it's the least they could do, considering how big their wage packets are.

To be honest KEN I don’t have any time for it and wouldn't sing it, I don’t consider it an English anthem, it’s a song about the Queen, I’m not a royalist so I have no interest if “God” wishes to save her or not, I don’t wish her any harm but I’m not particularly interested in how long she lives either. Land of Hope and Glory, Jerusalem, I vow to thee my country, all more relevant in my opinion, as a Heathen I would rather hear about Jesus at Glastonbury.

Keep it as a British state anthem if that’s what people want but it’s about time the English had something more relevant.

[Treffie]

To be honest KEN I don’t have any time for it and wouldn't sing it, I don’t consider it an English anthem, it’s a song about the Queen, I’m not a royalist so I have no interest if “God” wishes to save her or not, I don’t wish her any harm but I’m not particularly interested in how long she lives either. Land of Hope and Glory, Jerusalem, I vow to thee my country, all more relevant in my opinion, as a Heathen I would rather hear about Jesus at Glastonbury.

Keep it as a British state anthem if that’s what people want but it’s about time the English had something more relevant.

That's perfectly understandable, but if there was a decent one, it should be sung with gusto, like this :thumb001:

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