Genocide and Germany

[Jarl]

I have read a certiain website advertised by Zyklop recently:

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archivesindex.html


But since I don't like double-measures and too much of shameless finger pointing at others... I think before we move to blaming lets carefully look at the whole image. Here is another thread from the series of inconvenient subjects, after "Polish concentration camps" and "Video of Czech atrocities":



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/Sgsmk8iuKeI/AAAAAAAAAaw/jMIKC7Lg_bE/s1600/A%2BGerman%2Bpoliceman%2Bshoots%2Bindividual%2BJew ish%2Bwomen%2Bwho%2Bremain%2Balive%2Bin%2Bthe%2Bra vine%2Bafter%2Bthe%2Bmass%2Bexecution.%2B(1942).jp g

A German policeman shoots individual Jewish women who remain alive in the ravine after the mass execution. (1942).


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/STrX4uGa-4I/AAAAAAAAACk/LMj-NOcCAN8/s1600/Ukrainian%2BJews%2Bwho%2Bwere%2Bforced%2Bto%2Bundr ess%2Bbefore%2Bthey%2Bwere%2Bmassacred%2Bby%2BEins atzgruppe%2Bdetachments.jpg

Ukrainian Jews who were forced to undress before they were massacred by Einsatzgruppe detachments.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/ShtMwcit-MI/AAAAAAAAAbI/vWu_LIcIOng/s1600/German%2Bpolice%2Band%2BUkrainian%2Bcollaborators% 2Bin%2Bcivilian%2Bclothes%2Blook%2Bon%2Bas%2BJewis h%2Bwomen%2Bare%2Bforced%2Bto%2Bundress%2Bbefore%2 Btheir%2Bexecution..jpg

German police and Ukrainian collaborators in civilian clothes look on as Jewish women are forced to undress before their execution


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/STrXl99sY2I/AAAAAAAAACM/xK1IPZEMIQk/s1600/Jewish%2Bwomen%2Bfrom%2Bthe%2BMizocz%2BGhetto%2Bin %2Bthe%2BUkraine,%2Bwhich%2Bheld%2Broughly%2B1,700 %2BJews.%2BSome%2Bare%2Bholding%2Binfants%2Bas%2Bt hey%2Bare%2Bforced%2Bto%2Bwait%2Bin%2Ba%2Bline%2Bb efore%2Btheir%2Bexecution%2Bby%2BGermans%2Band%2BU krainian%2Bcollaborators.jpg


Mizocz Ghetto Ukraine


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/STrXli-q38I/AAAAAAAAAB0/HV7c9z9W7UE/s1600/A%2BLatvian%2Bpoliceman%2Bleads%2Ba%2Bgroup%2Bof%2 BJewish%2Bwomen%2Bto%2Bthe%2Bexecution%2Bsite%2Bin %2BLatvia.jpg

A Latvian policeman leads a group of Jewish women to the execution site in Latvia.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/STrW9gYz6bI/AAAAAAAAABs/JbLZOBhEDDU/s1600/A%2Bgroup%2Bof%2Bnaked%2BJewish%2Bwomen%2Band%2Bgi rls%2Bwalk%2Bto%2Bthe%2Bexecution%2Bsite%2Bon%2Bth e%2Bbeach%2Bnear%2BLiepaja.jpg

Liepaja, Latvia


http://www.schularena.com/geschichte/themen/fotos/zwischenkriegszeit_nationalismus/holocaust/MedExp01.jpg

Children in concentration camp


http://www.schularena.com/geschichte/themen/fotos/zwischenkriegszeit_nationalismus/holocaust/Pit.jpg


http://www.schularena.com/geschichte/themen/fotos/zwischenkriegszeit_nationalismus/holocaust/Maidan01.jpg


http://www.schularena.com/geschichte/themen/fotos/zwischenkriegszeit_nationalismus/holocaust/holocaust-child.gif


http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/ivangorod.jpg

German soldier shooting a woman with a child


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Bundesarchiv_Bild_192-208%2C_KZ_Mauthausen%2C_Sowjetische_Kriegsgefangen e.jpg


http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/25655-2/Russia-partisanen02


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Execution_of_Poles_by_German_Einsatzkomanndo_Oktob er1939.jpg

Execution of Poles by Einsatzkommando

[Murphy]

I would not advocate genocide against the Germans no. At least not all Germans.. Catholic Germans aren't so bad ;).

[Grumpy Cat]

I wouldn't advocate genocide against Germans or any group for that matter. Genocide and ethnic cleansing are deplorable.

[Pallantides]

No.

[Vasconcelos]

Whoever voted "yes" can only be referring to Martians or other Aliens - Mercurians are ugly too. I hope.

[Bridie]

God help humanity. :cry2

[Grumpy Cat]

Well the people who voted "yes" would be singing a different tune if their people survived a genocide or ethnic cleansing.

My people did 250 years ago, so I didn't live through it obviously, but it's still enough for me to condemn such actions, because events such as that change the culture forever, and not in a positive way.

[Guapo]

God help humanity. :cry2

Most humans are disgusting. That's what happens when you vote for a paranoid schizophrenic Viennese house painter using all the resources of modern propaganda and mass hypnosis.

[nisse]

I think there should be total war or a plague/natural disaster, so some people just naturally die off, but useless killing of people without any intra- or intergroup selection other than bias on the part of those in power is unfair and shouldn't happen IMO.

[Bridie]

I should ask, in regards to the poll question : Is Genocide the way.... to what exactly??? Hell on earth? Yes it is. But that's about all.

[Vasconcelos]

Wish people who voted yes tried to place themselves on the side of the victim. Like imagining an African/Arab invasion with mass executions.
Fun eh? :(

[SwordoftheVistula]

That's what happens when you vote for a paranoid schizophrenic Viennese house painter

Other than living in Vienna for a short time period after growing up in Linz, I don't think any of this is true. He painted postcards and stuff, never houses afaik.

Now, as to the general topic, if you live in a 'kill or be killed' world and don't want to be killed...

[Inese]

http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/ivangorod.jpg


The photo is made up and wrongly used ---- yes i have seen the full original photo a time ago and there is something cut off in your photo. The soldier is not pointing at the woman but elsewhere!! If you see the full photo you can see it. the photo is total misleading deliberatly.

[Eldritch]

Here we go again. Another pointless trolling thread that'll stretch out 30 pages, will alienate quality members, add nothing of value to the forum, and continue to live on in the form of endless bickering and infighting among forum members in both split-off and completely unrelated threads long after this one is eventually locked. Cheers.

[Cail]

As regarding to modern situation, i would not advocate the genocide of Arabs-Turks-Negroes etc... Just sterilize all of them, much more humane. The planet shall become a much nicer place in several generations.

[Jarl]

The photo is made up and wrongly used ---- yes i have seen the full original photo a time ago and there is something cut off in your photo. The soldier is not pointing at the woman but elsewhere!! If you see the full photo you can see it. the photo is total misleading deliberatly.

Full version for you Inese:


http://www.codoh.com/graphics2/daspiktur2full.jpg

[The Lawspeaker]

Full version for you Inese:


http://www.codoh.com/graphics2/daspiktur2full.jpg
I wonder where he is aiming at as he isn't aiming at them. If you look at the picture then that's very clear.

Anyway it's another pointless troll thread because you simply want to alienate German members even further.

[Jarl]

I wonder where he is aiming at as he isn't aiming at them. If you look at the picture then that's very clear.

Look at the sun and you will know.


Anyway it's another pointless troll thread because you simply want to alienate German members even further.



Sure. But when Zyklop posts on alleged "Polish" concentration camps or Czech atrocities and then advertises a German pro-Nazi website selling some home-made books full of lies on how Germans were mistreated, then that is not "pointless" and that is NOT ALIENATING other members? Spare me the sermon. Go and thank his other posts like you always do.


If he does it, then why shouldn't he face other subjects, this time more unpleasant. Why not start from ones backgarden - each one.


Here's especially for you Asega, you Rotterdam Blitz "not a war crime" justifier:

GpN_myTHXc8


AiQsptKV7ho


And this was a war crime? What do you think? Watch it. Don't avert your eyes.

[The Lawspeaker]

So.. why not tell us what happened at Bromberg?

[Jarl]

I should ask, in regards to the poll question : Is Genocide the way.... to what exactly??? Hell on earth? Yes it is. But that's about all.

Is it the way... a means to solve a problem, which you personally would consider.



Here we go again. Another pointless trolling thread that'll stretch out 30 pages, will alienate quality members, add nothing of value to the forum, and continue to live on in the form of endless bickering and infighting among forum members in both split-off and completely unrelated threads long after this one is eventually locked. Cheers.


I expect allergic, knee-jerk responses. It will be sad if it gets locked. If people cannot discuss things like genocide in a cultural manner then it will come as a disappointment.



So.. why not tell us what happened at Bromberg?



You tell us sherlock. You sound as if you knew what happened in every detail. I already had a discussion on Bromberg in this forum. And answer my question if you may... is this a war crime:

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/camp_children1.jpg

...or is it not?

[The Lawspeaker]

I will repeat my question: What happened at Bromberg ?
I know what happened.. but you tell us.

[Bridie]

Is it the way... a means to solve a problem, which you personally would consider.
I'll have to take that as a rhetorical question then...

[lei.talk]

I have as my theme that violence is the last resort of the incompetent.
In other words, a good leader gets his way without war.

an echo (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=861451#post861451)

[lei.talk]

I will repeat my question: What happened at Bromberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromberg_Bloody_Sunday#The_debate_in_scholarship)?
I know what happened.. but you tell us.


is the contention that these are all lies (http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archivesindex.html)?

there appears to be extensive documentation.



http://i48.tinypic.com/jhe991.jpg (http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/deathinpoland/dp00.html)

[Allenson]

Perhaps it's easy for me to say from this side of the Atlantic, but I really do think it's time to move on.

70 or so years have passed since the last great Fratricide broke out. The world has changed tremendously since then and in my opinion, there are clearly more pressing matters to attend to than rehashing old fights.

Again, it might be easier for me to say these sorts of things from the standpoint that I have. By no means do I intend to minimize losses & injustices felt by either side of the issue. I'm just not sure this sort of discussion is particularly productive at this moment in time.

[Arrow Cross]

Is this the only topic you come to this forum for, "Jarl"?

[Agrippa]

I want just to add that you have to consider the supply and infectious diseases at the end of the war. Many people which were gathered in relatively small places got problems on all sides and many of these died or looked quite haggard because the lack of supplies and diseases led to this condition.

It's something different if the people were starved to death deliberately - again something all sides did at times - partly because a lack of supply though, which was the least true for the USA, which had the greatest reserves and least stress, but still led many Germans starve to death after the end of the war - which changed only when the decision was made to care for the Germans and build them up as a European colony of the US-system.


In 1947 the U.S. Congress warned that the continuation of the present policies

...can only mean one of two things, (a) That a considerable part of the German population must be "liquidated" through diseases, malnutrition, and slow starvation for a period of years to come, with the resultant dangers to the rest of Europe from pestilence and the spread of plagues that know no boundaries; or (b) the continuation both of large occupying forces to hold down "unrest" and the affording of relief mainly drawn from the United States to prevent actual starvation

Conditions in Germany reached their lowest point in 1947. Living conditions were considered worse in 1947 than in 1945 or 1946. At an average ration of 1040 calories a day, malnutrition was at its worst stage in post-war Germany. Herbert Hoover asserted that this amount of rations was hardly more than the amount which caused thousands in the Nazi concentration camps to die from starvation


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan#Partial_rejection_of_the_plan

Also compare:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=205547&postcount=50

Otherwise I might just add that war is war, there is no clean war, no nice war, people kill and mutilate each other, destroy the other's property and drive them out of their homes - and is it really better to burn a soldier with phosphor than killing a family in an explosion? Well, many difficult questions which lead to no meaningful result but that one should prevent war if possible and violence is in any case just the ultima ratio - on a personal as well as on a collective (war) level.

You don't fight a war for no good reason and the best and most just goal for a war is to secure the vital interests of the own people and race, spreading ideas and a system which makes life for the people and chances for the survival of the own and related groups, finally all of mankind, on a high level, more likely.

Europeans failed, because they sold their souls to the devil and the Plutocratic Oligarchy devours itself on the European people. That must be stopped and IS A GENOCIDE!

If we look at the definition of "genocide", like we can find it on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

1943 Lemkin made up a definition of "genocide":

Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.

By that definition, the German people and the European people being now the victim of a genocide!

Another definition:

...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
– Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article II


When the Convention was drafted, it was already envisaged that it would apply not only to then existing forms of genocide, but also "to any method that might be evolved in the future with a view to destroying the physical existence of a group

Like Re-education with destructive "moral values" which undermine the very base of a people and destroy its social structures and cultural traditions by force, the spread of ideologies and socio-economic rules which result in diminishing birth rates and of course the mass immigration of non-integrable foreigners.


For genocide to happen, there must be certain preconditions. Foremost among them is a national culture that does not place a high value on human life. A totalitarian society, with its assumed superior ideology, is also a precondition for genocidal acts.[59] In addition, members of the dominant society must perceive their potential victims as less than fully human: as “pagans,” “savages,” “uncouth barbarians,” “unbelievers,” “effete degenerates,” “ritual outlaws,” “racial inferiors,” “class antagonists,” “counterrevolutionaries,” and so on.[60] In themselves, these conditions are not enough for the perpetrators to commit genocide. To do that—that is, to commit genocide—the perpetrators need a strong, centralized authority and bureaucratic organization as well as pathological individuals and criminals. Also required is a campaign of vilification and dehumanization of the victims by the perpetrators, who are usually new states or new regimes attempting to impose conformity to a new ideology and its model of society.[61]

– M. Hassan Kakar[62]


The problem is that ethnicities are not just neutral, after all, every group of people has a genetic (biological) and memetic (cultural) code or tradition.

The real question is, what kind of code either is and what consequences it has on other people and finally mankind as a whole, like potential for progress or not - and of course, the code can change through biological or cultural selection.

If it's about the Jews and the current state of "the West" under the Plutocratic rule, it's necessary to know that:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216653&postcount=16

I myself am no Antisemite without differentiation, because I don't think it's to blame all Jewish people for what the Jewish Bolsheviks, Cultural Marxists, Liberals, speculators, hypocritical "intellectuals", lawyers, writers, artists, politicians, Jewish group leaders, media tycoons and finally bankers and plutocrats did to Europe, the European nations and the German people.

Yet, one thing is for sure, we wouldn't be in that situation as Europeans and for sure not my German people without the Jews and the Jewish people, at least individually and to a large extend caused by their "special memetic background" and "sociocultural traditions", just secondarily by their biological characteristics or anything else.

It is not about me to care more for others than for my own people and those which are closer kin - or at least pose no threat, are probably even useful friends and for sure I'm no Christian inspired moron who "loves his enemies". I care for all people and humans, but there are priorities.

It's a disease spread by Cultural Marxism and Neo-Christian "moral teachings" to think otherwise. Who is here to care more for others, even if they do harm, than for the own people? And only the Europeans do, because they are brainwashed now, why their blood runs out of their body!

What happend is history and many crimes happened during the last great War, from all sides. I'm not here to justify unnecessary cruelty of any sort, yet I care more for the future.

And for the Poles and Czechs: What has this to do with the Jews? Regardless of what happened to the Jews, how does this justify anything of what they did to the Germans?

The Poles and Czechs were not treated fair all the time by the Germans, I know that very well, but don't tell me they were treated much worse than the Germans in the hands of the Poles and Czechs at the end of the war!

Why do you even come up with the Jews, when it was a German-Polish and German-Czech thing?

Did the Germans do such things, without drastic provocations (like the murder of Heydrich f.e.) to Poles and Czechs? Rather the Soviets did, like in Katyn!

Just watch the Katyn movie who tells the truth and shows clearly the difference between the Germans and Soviets - a Polish movie!

Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM1zyQ_zffM&feature=related

What did the Soviet and Jewish inspired Bolsheviks to the Poles, the Lithuanians, the Estonians, the Latvians, the Romanians and Germans in Bessarabia? They would have done the same in Finland, if they could have made it and they would have went on to the Atlantic coast if they could and Germany wanted to prevent that - the Poles did so before 1919-1921...

After 1945, they already had a plan and were more careful because of "public relations", but if they would have conquered Europe 1941, Katyn would have been just a small step and they would have done what they did to the Russian Empire's people to all of Europe!

What did the Bolsheviks in Eastern Europe?

Let's look into the Ukraine f.e. at the time of 1932-1933 and the famine they caused:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOTVsFLX_ms&feature=related

Bolshevism caused millions of deaths and part of the programs were really anti-European and made up by Jewish leaders which hated Europe and the old Russia. So they combined meaningful programs and ideas with very destructive ones, partly because of incompetence and ideological fallacies, but also because they simply wanted to destroy "old Europe".

And if partisans or "resistance fighters" were hanged - well, partisans were hanged, shot or worse by all sides, as they were irregular combattants and current law would describe them as simple "terrorists" and "criminals", that was the state of martial law at that time, especially plotting assasinations, bomb attacks, torturing prisoners of war and the like was a clear crime and still is. Germans or allied groups which acted in a similar way behind enemy lines or even on their own territory ("Werwolf" f.e.) were executed - even many minors which tried to fight for the freedom of their homeland were killed without pardon by all Allied authorities, including that of the French, US and British - Soviets anyway, they killed a lot of people, including actors like Heinrich George - who was a big man, but when he died he had the weight of a child!

Even normal, regular units, were often killed, like f.e. members of the SS-Division Charlemagne and all people they could get which were related to National Socialism or just "Bourgeois" or aristocrats were deported from many areas.

And I'm not even talking about Jewish influenced (mostly rather Communist) partisan groups, because what they did to prisoners of war and all Germans they could get is beyond imagination.

A clear and fast shot in the head would have been a great humane gesture in those cases, because THEY DID MUCH WORSE!

War is a terrible thing, but even without a war, terrible things can happen and in the current system larger parts of the German and other European people die off - relatively slower and more peaceful, but that's it, than in the 2nd World War - with no chance of recovery, because of the strong system-caused contraselection and the mass immigration of non integrable foreigners.

Thats the Genocide I have to care for RIGHT NOW because it happens NOW and TO MY PEOPLE!

[Zyklop]

This thread surely is the first time people heard about the holocaust.

I don't get the intention either. Zyklop posting an article about atrocities against German civilians after WW2 and Jarl, in his dislike for double-measure and finger pointing, justifies them by showing German atrocities beforeheand?

Regarding the photos, some years ago, German tobacco millionaire Jan Phillip Reemtsma (West, Gauloises, Stuyvesant), whose cigarettes probably killed more people than the whole Wehrmacht in WW2, started an exhibition called "Verbrechen der Wehrmacht" (crimes of the Wehrmacht). Millions of German schoolchildren were forcibly dragged there to pay and watch and be told that their grandfathers were criminals, until the respectable Polish(!) historian Bogdan Musial, and his Hungarian colleague Krisztián Ungváry exposed a good part of the documents and photos as fakes. The exhibition had to close down afterwards, until revision and overhaul some time later.

[Psychonaut]

Well the people who voted "yes" would be singing a different tune if their people survived a genocide or ethnic cleansing.

My people did 250 years ago, so I didn't live through it obviously, but it's still enough for me to condemn such actions, because events such as that change the culture forever, and not in a positive way.

Seconded.

And, fuck those English faggots! :)

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0809/english-faggots-england-faggot-british-demotivational-poster-1222233346.gif

P.S. Just kidding guys. You know the English are my favorite Eurofags.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Psychonaut
And, fuck those English faggots!

Is this a fantasy of yours?:p:D

[Psychonaut]

Is this a fantasy of yours?:p:D

:embarrassed

[Lithium]

I want genocide of all muslims, jews, gypsies and niggers in Europe...I can't watch them anymore, destroying my country...

[Svanhild]

The thread is not worth my time. So is Jarl.

[Jarl]

I will repeat my question: What happened at Bromberg ?
I know what happened.. but you tell us.


What happened? Armed German militias harassed Polish troops at 10 am on 3rd of September, shooting at soldiers passing through the cities from the windows of buildings lined up along Gdanska and Kamienna streets. At the crossroads near Jagiellonska and Gdanska 5 civilains were killed by the 5th column. Testimonies after the war indicate that the soldiers were shot at from 45 different buildings in Bydgoszcz/Bromberg.

In response general Przyjałkowski and major Wojciech Albrycht took one battalion to quench the unrest. Shootings evolved into scattered skirmishes in the town that lasted until evening. Polish civilians and skauts aided the soldiers. By the end of the day there were some 30-45 killed Polish soldiers and 90-110 Germans. Polish troops left the city overnight. On this first day Germans found with weapons shooting at the civilians and soldiers were tried or executed according to the martial law.

Overnight Germans attacked the withdrawing 61 regiment on the outskirts of Bydgoszcz and other regimetsfrom the 15th Division. There were no Polish soldiers in the town by 5th September. Only People's Militia. Throught 4th of September Miltia irregulars would fight German 5th column in the city. Hardest fighting took place in Szwedorowo. Polish militias did not allow the German 123 regiment (50th division) to take the city.


In the end 365 died on those two days. 33 were unidentified, 263 were citizens of Bydgoszcz. About 254 were Lutherans (mstly Germans), about 86 were Catholics (mostly Poles). To this add in some 20 Polish soldiers. Modern histriography points out it was mostly a fighting between civilian militias and German 5th column. This is what German historians say as well (Günter Schubert).


This was taken up by Goebbels to justify massacres of Poles. After Germans took the city Wehrmachtu Einsatzgruppen shot 400-600 Polish civilians on the city market, and murdered some 1200-3000 Jews and Poles in the Fordon district (Selbstschutzu and Einsatzkommando 16 in the operation Tannenberg).




is the contention that these are all lies (http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archivesindex.html)?

there appears to be extensive documentation.



http://i48.tinypic.com/jhe991.jpg (http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/deathinpoland/dp00.html)


Yes... very extensive... like on the alleged Polish camp in "Chocen" noone ever heard about... Did you read that website?



back to the subject.... lit of massacres:






KRISTALLNACHT (Night of Broken Glass) (November 9/10, 1938) (Jews)


Demonstrations against Jews and Jewish property was widespread throughout Germany on November 9/10, 1938. On Nov.12, Heydrich reported to the Propaganda Minister, Joseph Goebbels, that 101 Jewish Synagogues had been burned down and 76 others demolished. Over 815 shops and businesses were destroyed including the huge Margraf department store on Berlin's Unter-den-Linden which was totally ransacked. This orgy of anti-Jewish violence was the result of the assassination of a German Embassy official, Ernst von Rath, in Paris by a 17-year old Polish Jew in an act of protest against the deportation of his parents from Germany. Thirty six Jews were killed and around 20,000, in particular the more wealthy Jews, arrested and transported to concentration camps. The cost of shattered glass alone throughout the Reich was estimated at six million marks. The whole cost of Kristallnacht (night of glass) had to be paid by the Jews themselves, the Nazis confiscating their insurance money and imposing a collective fine of one billion marks!





THE SKIATAWA MASSACRE (Sunday November 30, 1941) (Jews)


The prime mover behind the expulsion of Berlin's Jews was Albert Speer, Hitler's chief architect who had been given the task of rebuilding Berlin. A close friend of Joseph Goebbels, together in 1941, they planned for the clearance of the Jewish slum areas in the western part of the city. In doing so, Speer could then take control of around 34,000 houses and apartments and start his demolishing and rebuilding programme. The first trainload of these expelled Jews left Berlin on October 18, 1941. There were to be 130 trainloads altogether. On November 7, a train, No. Do-26, loaded with 943 Jews left the city bound for Riga in Latvia. Arriving at 9.30am in Skiatawa , about eight kilometres outside Riga, in zero temperatures and three inches of snow on the ground, they were forced out of the train and shot into deep trenches previously dug in a strip of the Rumbula Forest. The executions were supervised by SS Major Rudolf Lange but the actual shooting was carried out by the local Latvian SS troops. Later that day around 4,000 local Jews from Riga itself were transported by trucks to the forest and murdered in the same way at the same spot on the orders of the local SS Commander Friedrich Jeckeln. (By the beginning of 1942, Jeckeln was credited with reducing the Jewish population of Riga from 29,500 to 2,600) This massacre was witnessed by Major General Walter Bruns, a 54 year old German Army bridge building engineer whose testimony is on file at the Public Records Office in London. At the 'Wolf's Lair', Hitler had given instructions to Himmler that the Berlin Jews were not to be liquidated but they were all dead by the time the order came through.





RUSSIAN P.O.W. MURDERS (Russians)


The first 3,000 Soviet prisoners of war arrived at the Buchenwald Concentration Camp during September 1941. After months of marching hundreds of miles they finally entered the camp completely exhausted and emaciated into mere skeletons. They had received almost nothing to eat during the march. Some weeks later another 4,000 arrived and during the ten kilometre march from the station in Weimar to the camp, 417 collapsed and died. In the camp, one of the most vile cold-blooded war crimes took place in a facility hastily constructed inside the camp's horse stables. When no longer able to work in the stone quarry the prisoners were taken to the stable and ordered into the shower-room eight at a time. The door was then closed and through a slit in the door the unsuspecting victims were simply shot down by an automatic pistol. To cover the cries of the dying loud music was played over loudspeakers. After the killings the showers were turned on but only to wash away the blood. Another method used was for the prisoner to stand against a measuring device to measure his height. Concealed behind the device was a small cubicle in which stood the SS murderer who then fired a shot into the neck of the prisoner through a slot in the partition. One such murderer was a Horst Dittrich an SS member of Kommando 99 at Buchenwald who confessed to having shot at least thirty-eight Russians POWs this way. Around 500 killings a day was achieved through these methods. In all, about 7,200 Russian POWs were murdered in Buchenwald.





THE SAGAN EXECUTIONS (March, 1944) (Brits)


The Gestapo’s most cold blooded act of butchery was the murder of 50 RAF officers from the POW camp, Stalag Luft III at Sagan in Silesia. Hundreds of officers had a hand in the building of a tunnel, 28ft down below one of the huts in the British north compound. It ran for 360 feet, passing under the wire at a depth of 20ft. The breakout on March 24th. 1944, saw the escape of 79 men before the tunnel was discovered. The last three men out gave themselves up to the guards in the hope that they could delay the search for the rest. Hitler issued a personal order that fifty escapees were to be shot on recapture. Within weeks, all had been recaptured, except three who eventually managed to reach England. After their capture, the officers were confined to various jails near where the arrests took place. Early in the morning they were taken out of their cells and in groups of two or three, were bundled into cars in company with their guards, and driven out into the country. On the autobahn, near a wood, the car would stop and the prisoners allowed out to relieve themselves. While performing this natural function, the guards would sneak up behind them and shoot them in the neck. Their bodies were then taken to the nearest crematorium. Any money the officers had on them were taken to help pay for the cremation. When the urns containing the ashes of the murdered officers began arriving at Stalag Luft III, the enormity of the massacre was revealed. Most urns had the officers name, date cremated and place-names such as Gorlitz, Brux, Breslau , Liegnitz, Kiel, Munich, Saarbrucken and Danzig. Most urns had the dates, 29th, 30th and 31st March, 1944. Official Gestapo files noted that the officers were ‘shot while trying to escape’. After the war, the RAF Special Investigation Branch, led by Squadron Leader Francis P. McKenna, ex 622 Squadron from Mildenhall, began its search for the culprits. It took over three years to bring the murderers to justice. Of the 72 culprits traced, 21 were found guilty and hanged, 17 imprisoned, 11 committed suicide, the rest died, disappeared or were acquitted.





THE DORTMUND KILLINGS (March 7 to April 12, 1945)


On instructions from their head office, Gestapo officers in Dortmund rounded up 300 persons, slave labourers, prisoners of war, and anti-Nazi resistance fighters and locked them up in the Gestapo prison cells on Benminghoferstrasse. These prisoners were of seven different nationalities including Dutch, Belgian, French, Polish, Russian and Yugoslavian. Starting on the 7th of March, and assisted by some fanatical Nazi Party civilians, the Gestapo officers marched their prisoners in groups to some fields in the Rombergpark and Bittermark suburbs of Dortmund. There, they were all shot to death. The killings continued till April 12 just when US Forces were approaching the city. The Gestapo execution squad then fled the city and disappeared. In 1951, twenty-seven of them were apprehended and brought to trial. Twelve were found guilty of being accomplices to murder and received between two and twelve years in Prison. Fifteen were found not guilty and released.





THE WEBLING ATROCITY (April, 1945)


On the same day that the Dachau Concentration Camp was discovered, a massacre took place in the little hamlet of Webling about ten kilometres from the camp. A Waffen-SS unit had arrived at the hamlet, which consisted of about half a dozen farm houses, barns and the Chapel of St. Leonhard, to take up defensive positions in trenches dug around the farms by French P.O.W. workers. Their orders were to delay the advance of American tanks of the 20th Armoured Division and infantry units of the 7th US Army which was approaching Dachau. The farms, mostly run by women (whose husbands were either dead, prisoners of war or still fighting) with the help of French POWs, came under fire on the morning of 29th April causing all inhabitants to rush for the cellars. One soldier of Company F of the US 222nd Infantry Regiment of the 42nd Rainbow Division, was killed as they entered the hamlet under fire from the Waffen-SS unit. The first German to emerge from the cellar was the owner of the farm, Herr Furtmayer. Informed by the French POWs that only civilians, not SS, were in hiding in the cellers, the GIs proceeded to round up the men of the SS unit. First to surrender was an officer, Freiherr von Truchsess, heading a detachment of seventeen men. The officer was immediately struck with a trenching tool splitting his head open. The other seventeen were lined up in the farmyard and shot. On a slight rise behind the hamlet, another group of eight SS were shot. Their bodies were found lying in a straight line with their weapons and ammunition belts neatly laid on the ground. This would suggest that the men were shot after they surrendered. Altogether, one SS officer and forty one men lay dead as the infantry regiment proceeded on their way towards Dachau. Next day the local people, with the help of the French POWs, buried the bodies in a field to be later exhumed by the German War Graves Commission and returned to their families.





HARTHEIM SCHLOSS


Built in 1600, it was once used as an Institute for the mentally handicapped under the protection of the sisters of the Order of St Vincent of Paul. Taken over by the Nazi regime in 1938/39 it was turned into a Euthanasia Centre. In 1942, a total of 3,166 civilian prisoners from Dachau and Mauthausen were transported to this place, situated just over the German border near Linz in Austria and there put to death by gassing. They were classified as 'unfit to work'. Schloss Hartheim, under the administration of the Mauthausen Concentration Camp, was the only prison from which there were no survivors. Used in the SS Euthanasia Programme, 18,269 mentally retarded and crippled children were murdered here. Their bodies were then cremated and the ashes spread over the waters of the Danube and Traun rivers. Five such establishments were set up in Germany, including the infamous Hadamar Psychiatric Clinic in Hessen-Nassau where between 40 and 70 patients arrived daily and where 476 Polish and Russian nationals were put to death within days of their arrival. Since the program began in 1939, a total of 72,424 mentally retarded people were murdered in these centres. A total of 772 children from Vienna were put to death and their brains preserved in glass jars. Around 80 persons were employed at Hartheim encouraged by extra pay and a good alcohol allowance. The director of the program was psychiatrist, Dr. Rudolf Lonauer, of Linz, who committed suicide by poison in May, 1945.

After the war, the Schloss (Castle) was converted into flats housing 22 families. In 1999, the families were moved and the Schloss refurbished and opened as a Memorial Site and Holocaust Learning Centre for students and the public.

In the spring of 1939, the "Reich Committee for Scientific Research of Hereditary and Severe Constitutional Diseases" was set up. Headed by SS-Obergruppenführer Philipp Bouhler, it operated out of his headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4, in Berlin, hence its code name T-4. From all over Germany, deformed children, incurably sick and mentally retarded patients were transported from their hospitals and institutions to the euthanasia killing centres of which there were six, (Brandenburg, Grafeneck, Hadamar, Hartheim, Sonnenstein and Bernberg). At these centres the patients were put to death individually, usually by injection. Later, to speed up the process, cyanide gas, known as Zyklon B, was used. At Hartheim, carbon-monoxide gas was the method used. In November, 1942, 1,200 German political prisoners were taken from Mauthausen and transported to Bernberg and put to death by gassing. Documents discovered after the war listed 70,273 deaths at these six centres. The first centre to be so equipped was Brandenburg in late 1939. The procedure was for groups of twenty or thirty to be ushered into a room camouflaged as a shower room into which gas piping had been laid. The equipment to operate the gas was located outside and operated by the doctor on duty. When the euthanasia program wound down in late 1941, the gassing equipment in these centres was dismantled and transferred to the concentration camps of Belize, Majdenek and Treblinka in Poland in preparation for the forthcoming 'Final Solution' of the Jewish question. It is estimated that between 200 and 250 thousand persons were murdered under the T-4 program.






List of murders of children by Nazi Germany
This list of murders of children by Nazi Germany is a list of child murders or infanticide by Nazi German military units (for example the Wehrmacht, the SS etc.), organizations, Nazi collaborators, their units, or organizations.




Chosen crimes and murder of children:

1939

October – August 1941, Aktion T4 (70,273 people, including children)

1940

27 May, Vinkt Massacre (86 people, including children)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Warsaw_ghetto_-_infant_corpse.jpg

1941

June, Czechow massacre (6 children)
13 July – 21 August Daugavpils massacre by Einsatzkommando 3 and Lithuanian partisans (9,585 people, including children)[4]
July – August 1944, Ponary massacre (ca. 100,000 people, including children)
18 August – 22 August, Kreis Rasainiai massacre (1,020 children)
19 August, Ukmerge massacre (88 children)
Summer-autumn-winter, Complete murder of native Jewish population in Estonia (900 individuals, including 101 children)
1 September, Marijampolė massacre (1,404 children)
2 September, Wilno massacre (817 children)
4 September, Čekiškė massacre (60 children)
4 September, Seredžius massacre (126 children)
4 September, Veliuona massacre (86 children)
4 September, Zapyškis massacre (13 children)
6 September – 8 September, Raseiniai massacre (415 children)
6 September – 8 September, Jurbork massacre (412 people, including children)
28 September – 17 October, Pleszczenice-Bischolin-Szack (Šacak)-Bobr-Uzda (White Ruthenia) massacre (1,126 children)
29 – 30 September, Babi Jar massacre (33,771 people, including children: List of victims of the Babi Yar massacre)
2 October, Žagarė massacre (496 children)
29 October, Kaunas massacre (4,273 children)
2 November, Mass murder of children in Pärnu synagogue (34 children)
25 November, Kauen-F.IX massacre (175 children)
30 November and 8 December, Rumbula massacre (25,000 people, including children)[5]
German war crimes during the Battle of Moscow
German holokaust crimes against Soviet Jews
German war crimes against Soviet civilians


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Stroop_Report_-_Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising_06b.jpg

1942

26 March – 6 April, Operation Bamberg (Hłusk, Bobrujsk; 4,396 people, including children)
27 March Murder of Pliner children (Holocaust in Estonia; 3 children)
9 – 12 May, Kliczów-Bobrujsk massacre (520 people, including children)
Beginning of June, Słowodka-Bobrujsk massacre (1,000 people, including children)
15 June Borki (powiat białostocki) massacre (1,741 people, including children)
21 June Zbyszin massacre (1,076 people, including children)
25 June Timkowiczi massacre (900 people, including children)
26 June Studenka massacre (836 people, including children)
2 July, murder of children of Lidice in the Kulmhof extermination camp (82 children)
18 July, Jelsk massacre (1,000 people, including children)
15 July – 7 August, Operation Adler (Bobrujsk, Mohylew, Berezyna; 1,381 people, including children)
14 – 20 August, Operation Greif (Orsza, Witebsk; 796 people, including children)
22 August – 21 September, Operation Sumpffieber (White Ruthenia; 10,063 people, including children)
August, Bereźne massacre
22 September – 26 September, Małoryta massacre; 4,038 people, including children)
23 September – 3 October, Operation Blitz (Połock, Witebsk; 567 people, including children)
11 – 23 October, Operation Karlsbad (Orsza, Witebsk; 1,051 people, including children)
23 – 29 November, Operation Nürnberg (Dubrowka; 2,974 people, including children)
10 – 21 December, Operation Hamburg (Niemen River-Szczara River; 6,172 people, including children)
22 – 29 December, Operation Altona (Słonim; 1,032 people, including children)


1943

6 – 14 January, Operation Franz (Grodsjanka; 2,025 people, including children)
10 – 11 January, Operation Peter (Kliczów, Kolbcza; 1,400 people, including children)
18 – 23 January, Słuck-Mińsk-Czerwień massacre (825 people, including children)
28 January – 15 February, Operation Schneehase; Połock, Rossony, Krasnopole; 2,283 people, including children); 54; 37
Until 28 January, Operation Erntefest I (Czerwień, Osipowicze; 1,228 people, including children)
Jaanuar, Operation Eisbär (between Briańsk and Dmitriev-Lgowski)
Until 1 February, Operation Waldwinter (Sirotino-Trudy; 1,627 people, including children)
8 – 26 February, Operation Hornung (Lenin, Hancewicze; 12,897 people, including children)
Until 9 February, Operation Erntefest II (Słuck, Kopyl; 2,325 people, including children)
15 February – end of March, Operation Winterzauber (Oświeja, Latvian border; 3,904 people, including children)
22 February – 8 March, Operation Kugelblitz (Połock, Oświeja, Dryssa, Rossony; 3,780 people, including children)
12 March, Murder of Czesława Kwoka in KZ Auschwitz-Birkenau (1 child)
Until 19 March, Operation Nixe (Ptycz, Mikaszewicze, Pińsk; 400 people, including children)
Until 21 March, Operation Föhn (Pińsk; 543 people, including children)
21 March – 2 April, Operation Donnerkeil (Połock, Witebsk; 542 people, including children)
1 – 9 May, Operation Draufgänger II (Rudnja and Manyly forest; 680 people, including children)
17 – 21 May, Operation Maigewitter (Witebsk, Suraż, Gorodok; 2,441 people, including children)
20 May – 23 June, Operation Cottbus (Lepel, Begomel, Uszacz; 11,796 people, including children)
23 May, Kielce cemetery massacre (45 children)
27 May – 10 June, Operation Weichsel (Dniepr-Prypeć triangle, South-West of Homel; 4,018 people, including children)
13 – 16 June, Operation Ziethen (Rzeczyca; 160 people, including children)
25 June – 27 July, Operation Seydlitz (Owrucz-Mozyrz; 5,106 people, including children)
30 July, Mozyrz massacre (501 people, including children)
Until 14 July, Operation Günther (Woloszyn, Lagoisk; 3,993 people, including children)
13 July – 11 August, Operation Hermann (Iwie, Nowogródek, Woloszyn, Stołpce; 4,280 people, including children)
3 August, Szczurowa massacre (93 people, including children)
24 September – 10 October, Operation Fritz (Głębokie; 509 people, including children)
29 September, Ostrówki massacre (246 children)
29 September, Wola Ostrowiecka massacre (220 children)
9 October – 22 October, Stary Bychów massacre (1,769 people, including children)
1 November – 18 November, Operation Heinrich (Rossony, Połock, Idrica; 5,452 people, including children)
December, Spasskoje massacre (628 people, including children)
December, Biały massacre (1,453 people, including children)
20 December – 1 January 1944, Operation Otto (Oświeja; 1,920 people, including children)


1944

14 January, Oła massacre (1,758 people, including children)
22 January, Baiki massacre (987 people, including children)
3 – 15 February, Operation Wolfsjagd (Hłusk, Bobrujsk; 467 people, including children)
5 – 6 February, Baryczi (Buczaczi lähedal) massacre (126 people, including children)
28 February, Huta Pieniacka massacre
28 – 29 February, Korosciatyn Massacre (ca. 150 people, including children)
Until 19 February, Operation Sumpfhahn (Hłusk, Bobrujsk; 538 people, including children)
Beginning of March, Berezyna-Bielnicz massacre (686 people, including children)
7 – 17 April, Operation Auerhahn (Bobrujsk; ca. 1,000 people, including children)
17 April – 12 May, Operation Frühlingsfest (Połock, Uszacz; 7,011 people, including children)
25 May – 17 June, Operation Kormoran; Wilejka, Borysów, Mińsk; 7,697 people, including children)
2 June, Murder of Yekusiel Yehudah Halberstam's children (9 children)
2 June – 13 June, Operation Pfingsrose (Talka; 499 people, including children)
10 June, Distomo massacre (218 people, including children)
10 June, Oradour-sur-Glane massacre (205 children)
29 June, Civitella-Cornia-San Pancrazio massacre (Toscana; 203 people, including children)
June, Operation Pfingstausnlug (Sienno; 653 people, including children)
June, Operation Windwirbel (Chidra; 560 people, including children)
4–August 25, Ochota massacre (ca. 10,000 people, including children)
5 – 8 August, Wola massacre (40,000 [6] up to 100,000 [7] people, including children)
12 August, Sant'Anna di Stazzema massacre (560 people, including children)
29 September – 5 October, Marzabotto massacre (250 children)
5 November, Heusden Town Hall Massacre (134 people, including 74 children)


1945


8 April - The Celle Massacre
13 April - Gardelegen Massacre
20 April - Murder of 20 children by Alfred Trzebinski
[edit] 1940s
Borów massacre (103 children)
Krasowo-Częstki massacre (83 children)
Michniów massacre (48 children)
Murders of children in the Hadamar Clinic (NS-Tötungsanstalt Hadamar) mostly by Irmgard Huber
Szczecyn massacre (71 children)
[edit] Generally
Anti-partisan operations in Belarus
Jäger Report
Kidnapping of Polish children by Nazi Germany
Massacres of Poles in Volhynia
Murder of children of Jewish Children's Home in Oslo
Murders of children by Heinrich Gross
Murders of children by Karl Linnas
Murders of children by Josef Mengele
Murders of children by Carl Hans Heinze Sennhenn
Murders of children in the Drancy internment camp
Nazi human experimentation
Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer#Involvement in Nazi human experimentation
Pacification operations in German-occupied Poland






Mass Murders in Piasnica:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_murders_in_Pia%C5%9Bnica


The mass murders in Piaśnica were a set of mass executions carried out by Germans, during World War II, between the fall of 1939 and spring of 1940 in Piasnica Wielka (Groß Piasnitz) in the Darzlubska Wilderness near Wejherowo. Standard estimates put the number of victims at between twelve thousand and fourteen thousand. Most of them were Polish intellectuals from Gdańsk Pomerania, but Poles, Jews, Czechs and German inmates from mental hospitals from General Government and the Third Reich were also murdered. After the Stutthof concentration camp, Piaśnica was the largest site of killings of Polish civilians in Pomerania by the Germans, and for this reason is sometimes referred to as the "second" or "Pomeranian" Katyn.[1] It was also the first large scale Nazi atrocity in occupied Poland and a harbinger of things to come.[2]


Due to the fact that in 1944, the Germans exhumed and burned many of the corpses in an attempt to hide the crime, the exact number of victims is not known, and as are not many of the names and their national origins. From investigations carried out after the war, three different groups of victims can be identified:

The first group of about two thousand persons, mostly Poles and Kashubians from Gdańsk Pomerenia, arrested in September and October 1939 and subsequently held in prisons in Wejherow, Puck, Gdańsk, Kartuzy, and Kościerzyn.[1]

Second group, the largest, of ten to twelve thousand people, consisted of Polish, Czech and German families who had been transported from other areas of General Government and the Third Reich. This group also included many Polish workers who had migrated to Germany for economic reasons in the interwar period. The estimated number is based on the mass graves that had been found and on eyewitness reports by railroad men who observed the arriving transports.[1]

The third group included about 1,200 (some sources give 2,000) mentally ill patients, transported from hospitals in Stralsund, Ueckermünde, Altentreptow and Lauenburg (Lębork).[2]

Investigations carried out so far have established the names of about 600 of the 14,000 murdered.[1]

[Jarl]

...

[Zyklop]

Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is a psychiatric anxiety disorder that includes distressing, intrusive thoughts and related compulsions (tasks or "rituals") to neutralize the obsessions. Obsessions are usually upsetting and the compulsions lead to temporary feelings of relief. To be diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder, one must have either obsessions or compulsions alone, or obsessions and compulsions together, but most people with OCD have both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder

[Jarl]

Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is a psychiatric anxiety disorder that includes distressing, intrusive thoughts and related compulsions (tasks or "rituals") to neutralize the obsessions. Obsessions are usually upsetting and the compulsions lead to temporary feelings of relief. To be diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder, one must have either obsessions or compulsions alone, or obsessions and compulsions together, but most people with OCD have both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder




Ansprache Hitlers vor den Oberbefehlshabern der Wehrmacht auf dem Obersalzberg 22. August 1939:


Unsere Stärke ist unsere Schnelligkeit und unsere Brutalität. Dschingis Khan hat Millionen Frauen und Kinder in den Tod gejagt, bewußt und fröhlichen Herzens. Die Geschichte sieht in ihm nur den großen Staatengründer. Was die schwache westeuropäische Zivilisation über mich behauptet, ist gleichgültig. Ich habe den Befehl gegeben – und ich lasse jeden füsilieren, der auch nur ein Wort der Kritik äußert – daß das Kriegsziel nicht im Erreichen von bestimmten Linien, sondern in der physischen Vernichtung des Gegners besteht. So habe ich, einstweilen nur im Osten, meine Totenkopfverbände bereitgestellt mit dem Befehl, unbarmherzig und mitleidslos Mann, Weib und Kind polnischer Abstammung und Sprache in den Tod zu schicken. Nur so gewinnen wir den Lebensraum, den wir brauchen. Wer redet heute noch von der Vernichtung der Armenier?










Our strength is our quickness and our brutality. Genghis Khan had millions of women and children hunted down and killed, deliberately and with a gay heart. History sees in him only the great founder of States.


What the weak Western European civilization alleges about me, does not matter. I have given the order - and will have everyone shot who utters but one word of criticism - that the aim of this war does not consist in reaching certain geographical lines, but in the enemies' physical elimination.


Thus, for the time being only in the east, I put ready my Death's Head units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of the Polish race or language. Only thus will we gain the living space that we need. Who still talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?

[Zyklop]

Ansprache Hitlers vor den Oberbefehlshabern der Wehrmacht auf dem Obersalzberg 22. August 1939:Funny that you mention this speech, as the International Military Tribunal in Nuremburg considereded it a forgery and didn't permit it as evidence. But it demonstrates all to clearly how Polish propaganda works:


Bei diesem Prozess kursierte eine weitere, offenkundig gefälschte Version der Rede, die sogenannte Dschingis-Khan-Rede (IMT-Dokument L-003). Sie enthält unglaubwürdige, besonders brutale und blutrünstige Redewendungen. Sie wurde in deutschen Widerstandskreisen erstellt, um die britische Regierung vor Hitler zu warnen. Diese Fälschung wurde auf Veranlassung von Generalstabschef Generaloberst Ludwig Beck (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Beck_%28Offizier%29) an den britischen Journalisten Louis Lochner (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Paul_Lochner) übergeben, der sie spätestens am 25. August 1939 an die Britische Botschaft in Berlin (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britische_Botschaft_in_Berlin) weiterleitete. Der Militärgerichtshof lehnte diese Version als Beweisstück ab.

[Jarl]

Funny that you mention this speech, as the International Military Tribunal in Nuremburg considereded it a forgery and didn't permit it as evidence. But it demonstrates all to clearly how Polish propaganda works:


Funny you mention compulsive disorders while it is you constantly making Polish/Czech genocide threads and putting those dubious minor Polish nationalits quotations in your sig... OCD Zyklop??? ;)


Funny that you mention this speech, as the International Military Tribunal in Nuremburg considereded it a forgery and didn't permit it as evidence. But it demonstrates all to clearly how Polish propaganda works:



LOL! Zyklop! Don't even mention to me Nurmberg!

The symbol of those terrible injustices commited on Germans by the wicked Allies and Jews... made up Holocaust, made up allegations, puppet trial! You believe them??? :D



Hey, Zyklop, how about that:


Statements by Hitler and Senior Nazis
Concerning Jews and Judaism


Speech delivered by Hitler in Salzburg, 7 or 8 August 1920. (NSDAP meeting)

The following quotation is from a shorthand transcript.

"This is the first demand we must raise and do [reversal of the Versailles Treaty provisions]: that our people be set free, that these chains be burst asunder, that Germany be once again captain of her soul and master of her destinies, together with all those who want to join Germany. (Applause)

And the fulfillment of this first demand will then open up the way for all the other reforms. And here is one thing that perhaps distinguishes us from you [Austrians] as far as our programme is concerned, although it is very much in the spirit of things: our attitude to the Jewish problem.

For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever really be eradicated. Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst. (Applause)

Source: D Irving, The War Path: Hitler's Germany 1933-1939. Papermac, 1978, p.xxi

Hitler's Conversation with Josef Hell, 1922

When Hell asked Hitler what he intended doing if he ever had full freedom of action against the Jews, his response was:

"If I am ever really in power, the destruction of the Jews will be my first and most important job. As soon as I have power, I shall have gallows after gallows erected, for example, in Munich on the Marienplatz-as many of them as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged one after another, and they will stay hanging until they stink. They will stay hanging as long as hygienically possible. As soon as they are untied, then the next group will follow and that will continue until the last Jew in Munich is exterminated. Exactly the same procedure will be followed in other cities until Germany is cleansed of the last Jew!" (quoted in John Toland, Adolf Hitler. London: Book Club Associates, 1977, p.116)

Hitler, Adolf- "Nation and Race". Chapter XI of Mein Kampf [My Struggle]

The document referenced by the above link is Chapter 11 of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf [My Struggle], which dwells especially on his views on the significance of race in culture and social systems, and particularly on his perception of the role of Aryans and Jews in culture creation and/or destruction. Mein Kampf appeared in two volumes, published in 1925 and 1927. This chapter features in the first, and more significant volume, and was written during 1924 when Hitler was incarcerated in Landsberg prison, Bavaria, following the unsuccessful Beer Hall Putsch (small uprising) of 1923. Mein Kampf sets forth Hitler's views on a very wide range of topics, Hitler being one of those individuals who felt able to expound on virtually any subject. In the context of the Final Solution to the Jewish Question, the views he expressed in this book on Jews are especially important as his ultimate intentions towards them can only be inferred from publicly known statements, no written orders relating to their extermination having been found.

Despite the fact that it has been dubbed "turgid, repetitious, wandering, illogical" [EB, CD-ROM, 1998], it was an extremely important document because of its widespread appeal to certain sections of society in Germany and elsewhere. By 1939 it had been translated into eleven languages and had sold more than five million copies. Today it is still in print and can be found reproduced at various sites on the Internet.

Hitler Interview in the New York Staatszeitung, 1933.

"Why does the world shed crocodile’s tears over the richly merited fate of a small Jewish minority? … I ask Roosevelt, I ask the American people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these well-poisoners of the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We would willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a thousand-mark note for travelling expenses, if we could get rid of them." (Quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.727-28)

Hitler Speech to the Doctors’ Union in April 1933 on racial purification of the German people.

"The greatest achievements in intellectual life can never be produced by those of alien race but only by those who are inspired by the Aryan or German spirit. In view of the narrowness of the space within which German intellectual work and German intellectual workers have to live they had a natural moral claim to precedence and preference. If the number of foreigners admitted to take part in German intellectual life was out of proportion to the number of native Germans sharing in that life foreigners might interpret this as a recognition of the intellectual superiority of other races." (Quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.728)

Rosenberg, Alfred

"Anti-Semitism is the unifying element of the reconstruction of Germany."

(Referred to at the Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Vol.3, Nuremberg, 1947, p. 35)

"Germany will regard the Jewish question as solved only after the very last Jew has left the greater German living space... Europe will have its Jewish question solved only after the very last Jew has left the continent." (Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Vol.3, Nuremberg, 1947, p. 35)

Ley, Robert

"We swear we are not going to abandon the struggle until the Last Jew in Europe has been exterminated and is actually dead. It is not enough to isolate the Jewish enemy of mankind-the Jew has got to be exterminated." (Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Vol.3, Nuremberg, 1947, p. 36)

"The second German secret weapon is anti-Semitism, because if it is consistently pursued by Germany, it will become a universal problem which all nations will be forced to consider." (Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Vol.3, Nuremberg, 1947, p. 36)

Hitler's Reasons for Nuremberg Legislation (Reich Citizenship Law, Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor)

"One of the principle reasons for the legislation in Germany is the necessity to combat Bolshevism. This legislation is not anti-Jewish, but pro-German. The rights of Germans are thereby to be protected against destructive Jewish influences.

… the Jews who formed less than one per cent. of the population tried to monopolize the cultural leadership of the people and flooded the intellectual professions, such as, for example, jurisprudence and medicine. The influence of this intellectual Jewish class in Germany had everywhere a disintegrating effect . For this reason in order to bar the spread of this process of disintegration it became essential to take steps to establish a clear and clean separation between the two races.

He stressed [that these legislative measures] served to protect the Jew, and this was proved by the fact that since the passing of the restrictive measures anti-Jewish sentiment in the country decreased. (Interview with Mr Baillie of the United Press, quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.732)

Hitler's Closing speech at the Nuremberg Party Conference, 1938 (12 September)

"When the question is still put to us why National Socialism fights with such fanaticism against the Jewish element in Germany, why it pressed and still presses for its removal then the answer can only be: Because National Socialism desires to establish a true community of the people…. Because we are National Socialists we can never suffer an alien race which has nothing to do with us to claim the leadership of our working people." (Adolf Hitler, quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.735)

Hitler's Speech to Party Congress at Nuremberg, September 12, 1938

Hitler commented, inter alia, on what he perceived as the self-righteous and hypocritical attitude of the democratic countries toward the plight of Jews under German control:

"They complain… of the boundless cruelty with which Germany-and now Italy also-seek to rid themselves of their Jewish elements. All these great democratic empires taken together have only a handful of people to the square kilometre. Both in Italy and Germany there are over 140. Yet formerly Germany, without blinking an eyelid, for whole decades admitted these Jews by the hundred thousand. But now… when the nation is no longer willing to be sucked dry by these parasites, on every side one hears nothing but laments. But lamentations have not led these democratic countries to substitute helpful activity at last for their hypocritical questions; on the contrary, these countries with icy coldness assured us that obviously there was no place for the Jews in their territory. … So no help is given, but morality is saved. (Source: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Edited by N H Haynes. Volume I, pp.719-720 Oxford University Press, 1942)

Hitler saw the justification for these remarks in the reluctance of many countries in Europe, the Americas and elsewhere to accommodate the large numbers of Jews who by this time were prepared to emigrate at any cost. In particular he undoubtedly had in mind the lack of substantive action that was manifest in the deliberations and conclusions of the Evian conference.

Das Schwarze Korps [SS Newspaper] 24 November 1938

"So, we are now going to have a total solution to the Jewish question. The programme is clear. It reads: total separation, total segregation! What does this mean? It does not only mean the total exclusion of the Jews from the German economic system... It means much more! No German can be expected to live under the same roof as Jews. The Jews must be chased out of our houses and our residential districts and made to live in rows or blocks of houses where they can keep to themselves and come into contact with Germans as little as possible. They must be clearly identified.... And when we compel the rich Jews to provide for the `poor' of their race, which will certainly be necessary, they will all sink together into a pit of criminality. As this happens, we will be faced with the harsh necessity of eradicating the Jewish underworld, just as we root out criminals from our own orderly state: with fire and sword. The result will be the certain and absolute end of Jewry in Germany; its complete annihilation!" [Source: Benno Müller-Hill. Murderous Science. New York: CSHL Press, 1998, p.48]

Extracts from "The Poisonous Mushroom", antisemitic Der Stuermer Tract, 1938

Hitler's Speech to the Reichstag, 30 January, 1939:

"Europe cannot find peace until the Jewish question has been solved. …One thing I should like to say on this day [the sixth anniversary of his being appointed Chancellor of the Reich] which may be memorable for others as well as for us Germans. In the course of my life I have very often been a prophet and have usually been ridiculed for it. … Today I will once more be a prophet: if the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshivization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe."

This statement has been taken as being particularly significant by many scholars, signposting the general trend of Hitler’s views on the ultimate fate of Jews who fell under German hegemony.

Hitler's Speech in Munich, 24 February, 1939

"the Jewish question today was no longer a German problem: it had become a world problem." quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.743)

Hitler's Speech in Wilhelmshaven, 1 April, 1939

"Only when this Jewish bacillus infecting the life of peoples has been removed can one hope to establish a co-operation amongst the nations which shall be built up on a lasting understanding." quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.743)

Reinhard Heydrich's Instructions to Einsatzgruppen leaders, 21 September, 1939

During and following the invasion of Poland, special tasks concerning control of the occupied Polish population, both Christian and Jewish, were entrusted to special SS units known as Einsatzgruppen, or task forces, of which there were, during the period preceding the invasion of the Soviet Union, five. A significant set of instructions to their commanders was issued by Reinhard Heydrich, SS-Lieutenant-General and head of the Reich Main Security Office, on September 27, 1939. Their significance lay in the setting out of a policy for concentrating the Jews in particular locations in preparation for some subsequent and unspecified "final goal" relating to their eventual disposition. The instructions stipulated that

"A distinction must be made between:

the final goal (which will require a lengthy period) and
the stages toward the achievement of this final goal (which can be carried out on a short-term basis).
… The following instructions and directives serve simultaneously the purpose of encouraging the chiefs of the Einsatzgruppen to reflect on the practical issues.

The first preliminary measure for achieving the final goal is the concentration of the Jews from the countryside in the larger cities. It must be speedily implemented. … as few concentration points as possible should be established so that only those cities are designated which are either railway junctions or at least lie on a railway line. As a matter of principle, Jewish communities of under 500 are to be dissolved and transferred to the nearest concentration city. …

It must be ensured that the economic exploitation of the occupied territories does not suffer as a result of these measures." (quoted in J Noakes and G Pridham (eds.) Nazism 1919-1945: A Documentary Reader. Vol. 3 Exeter: University of Exeter Press, 1988, pp.1051-1053)

These instructions feature importantly in debates concerning the objectives of German Jewish policy at this particular historical juncture. In particular, what interpretation should be placed on the phrase "the final goal" which will require "a lengthy period" and the "stages towards the achievement of this final goal (which can be carried out on a short-term basis)? Does this imply, as some historians contend, that by September 1939 Nazi decision-makers already presaged the extermination of European Jewry, "the final goal"? Alternatively, as other historians contend, was the "final goal", at this time, still construed as "resettlement" in Eastern Poland or elsewhere? Concentration near railway junctions would be compatible with either policy. Reference to the need to ensure the economic exploitation of the occupied territories, on the other hand, would not be inconsistent with a policy of resettlement. (cf. A J Mayer, L Davidowicz and C Browning, among others.)

Heinrich Himmler, 25 November 1939

The contrary thrusts of German Jewish policy are evident, also, in a statement made by Heinrich Himmler, Reich Leader of the SS and Chief of the German Police, on 25 November 1939.

"We won’t waste much time on the Jews. It’s great to get to grips with the Jewish race at last. The more they die the better… We want to put half to three-quarters of all Jews east of the Vistula. We will crush these Jews wherever we can. … Get the Jews out of the Reich… We have no use for Jews in the Reich. Probably the line of the Vistula, behind this line no more. We are the most important people here…" (Source: J Noakes, G Pridham. Nazism, 1919-1945: A Documentary Reader. Volume 3. p.1055. University of Exeter Press, 1991)

At the time that this statement was made Himmler had embarked on an ambitious policy of demographic restructuring involving the transfer of ethnic Germans to portions of Poland that had been annexed by the Reich, known as the Reichsgau Wartheland (in western Poland, bordering Germany), movement of Poles who had been resident in this area to the remainder of German occupied Poland, known as the General Government, and movement of Jews from the Reich and the Wartheland to Eastern Poland.

Himmler Memorandum "Some thoughts about the treatment of foreign peoples in eastern territories." 23 March 1941

"I hope to see the very concept of Jewry completely obliterated."

Hitler’s Table Talk, October 1941

"From the rostrum of the Reichstag, I prophesied to Jewry that, in the event of war’s proving inevitable, the Jew would disappear from Europe. That race of criminals has on its conscience the two million dead of the First World War, and now already hundreds and thousands more. Let nobody tell me that all the same we can’t park them in the marshy parts of Russia! Who’s worrying about our troops? It’s not a bad idea, by the way, that public rumor attributes to us a plan to exterminate the Jews. Terror is a salutary thing." (quoted in John Toland, Adolf Hitler. London: Book Club Associates, 1977, p.702-3)

Toland speculates that at this stage Hitler had already taken the decision to exterminate European Jewry, and "began making overt remarks during his table conversations, perhaps as an experiment in revelation." (ibid, p.702)

Speech by Hans Frank, Governor General of the General Government, Poland, April 12, 1940

...

if the authority of the National-Socialist Reich is to be upheld, then it is unacceptable that representatives of the Reich should be obliged to meet Jews when they enter or leave the house, and are in this way liable to infection with epidemics. [I] therefore [intend] to clear the city of Cracow [the seat of the Governor-General of the General Government] of Jews, as far as at all possible, by November 1, 1940. There will be a major operation to move the Jews, on the grounds that it is absolutely intolerable that thousands upon thousands of Jews should go slinking around and occupy apartments in the city which the Führer has granted the great honor of becoming the seat of a high Reich Authority... [Source: Y Arad, et.al. Documents on the Holocaust. London: Pergamon Press, 1981,pp.197-98]

Address by Hans Frank, Governor-General of the General Government, Poland, to senior members of his administration, December 16, 1941.

"Let me tell you quite frankly: in one way or another we will have to finish with the Jews. The führer once expressed it as follows: should Jewry once again succeed in inciting a world war, the bloodletting could not be limited to the peoples they drove to war but the Jews [themselves] would be done for in Europe. …if the Jewish tribe survives the war in Europe while we sacrifice our blood for the preservation of Europe, this war will be but a partial success. Basically, I must presume, therefore, that the Jews will disappear. … To that end I have started negotiations to expel them to the east. … In any case, there will be a great Jewish migration.

But what is to become of the Jews? Do you think that they will be settled in villages in the conquered eastern territories? In Berlin we have been told not to complicate matters: since neither these territories [nor our own] have any use for them, we should liquidate them ourselves! Gentlemen, I must ask you to remain unmoved by pleas for pity. We must annihilate the Jews wherever we encounter them and wherever possible, in order to maintain the overall mastery of the Reich here….

For us the Jews are also exceptionally damaging because they are being such gluttons. There are an estimated 2.5 million Jews in the General Government, perhaps…. 3.5 million. These 3.5 million Jews, we cannot shoot them, nor can we poison them. Even so, we can take steps which in some way or other will pave the way for [their] destruction, notably in connection with the grand measures to be discussed in the Reich. The General Government must become just as judenfrie [free of Jews] as the Reich." (quoted in A J Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken: The "Final Solution" in History. London: Verso, 1990, pp. 302-03)

This statement was made some five weeks before the meeting of senior officials at 56-58 Grosser Wannsee, Berlin, on January 20, 1942, where the final administrative details concerning the Final Solution of the Jewish question were discussed in detail. The conference had originally been planned for December 9, 1941.

Statement by Reinhard Heydrich at the Wannsee Conference, 20 January, 1942, Berlin

"To take the place of emigration, and with the prior approval of the führer, the evacuation of the Jews to the East has become another possible solution.

Although both courses of action [emigration and evacuation] must, of course, be considered as nothing more than … temporary expedients, they do help to provide practical experience which should be of great importance in view of the coming Endlösung (final solution) of the Jewish question." (quoted in A J Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken: The "Final Solution" in History. London: Verso, 1990, p. 304)

Speech By Adolf Hitler, Berlin, September 30, 1942

"There was a time when the Jews in Germany also laughed at my prophecies. I do not know whether they are still laughing today, or whether they have been cured of laughter. But take my word for it: they will stop laughing everywhere." (quoted in A J Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken: The "Final Solution" in History. London: Verso, 1990, p. 344)

Statement by Hitler, March 20, 1943

"By now it is clear that [the conflict between Germany and the USSR] has … gradually assumed the characteristics of a struggle that can only be compared to the greatest historical events of the past. The pitiless and merciless war that has been forced upon us by external Jewry will lay the entire Continent in ruins unless the forces of [eastern] destruction can be stopped before reaching Europe’s borders. [Should they break through], the worst consequences would be not burned cities and wrecked cultural monuments but the bestial massacres of masses of human beings comparable to those that followed the invasions of the Huns and Mongols out of inner Asia." (quoted in A J Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken: The "Final Solution" in History. London: Verso, 1990, p. 346)

Adolf Hitler's Political Testament, 29 April, 1945



That's fake too? How about that:




Hitler on the Result of the War

“And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews.”


Sources: Adolf Hitler speaking to a crowd at the Sports Palace in Berlin, January 30, 1942

[Jarl]

"All Poles will disappear from the world. [...] It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles."




On September 1, 1939, Hitler invaded Poland from three directions. Hitler's invincible troops attacked from the west, the north and the south. Poland never had a chance. By October 8, 1939, Polish Jews and non-Jews were stripped of all rights and, were subject to special legislation. Rationing, which allowed for only bare sustenance of food and medicine was quickly set up.

Young Polish men were forcibly drafted into the German army.
The Polish language was forbidden. Only the German language was allowed.
All secondary schools and colleges were closed.
The Polish press was liquidated. Libraries and bookshops were burned.
Polish art and culture were destroyed.
Polish churches and snyagogues were burned.
Most of the priests were arrested and sent to concentration camps.
Street signs were either destroyed or changed to new German names. Polish cities and towns were renamed in German.
Ruthless obliteration of all traces of Polish history and culture.

Hitler's Goal: Terrorize Polish People Into Subservience.

Hundreds of Polish community leaders, mayors, local officials, priests, teachers, lawyers, judges, senators, doctors were executed in public.

Much of the rest of the so-called Intelligentsia, the Polish leading class, was sent to concentration camps where they later died.

The first mass execution of World War II took place in Wawer, a town near Warsaw, Poland on December 27, 1939 when 107 Polish non-Jewish men were taken from their homes in the middle of the night and shot.

This was just the beginning of the street roundups and mass executions that continued throughout the war.

At the same time, on the eastern border of Poland, the Soviet Union invaded and quickly conquered. Germany and the Soviet Union divided Poland in half. The western half, occupied by the Nazis, became a new German territory: "General Gouvernment". The eastern half was incorporated within the adjoining Russian border by Soviet "elections". This new border "realignment" conferred Soviet citizenship on its new Polish inhabitants. And all young Polish men were subject to being drafted into the Soviet army.

Just like the Nazis the Soviets also reigned terror in Poland. The Soviets took over Polish businesses, Polish factories and destroyed churches and religious buildings. The Polish currency (zloty) was removed from circulation. All Polish banks were closed and savings accounts were blocked.

During the period of the Holocaust of World War II, Poland lost:


45% of her doctors,
57% of her attorneys
40% of her professors,
30% of her technicians,
more than 18% of her clergy
most of her journalists.
Poland's educated class was purposely targeted because the Nazis knew that this would make it easier to control the country.

Non-Jews of Polish descent suffered over 100,000 deaths at Auschwitz. The Germans forcibly deported approximately 2,000,000 Polish Gentiles into slave labor for the Third Reich. The Russians deported almost 1,700,000 Polish non-Jews to Siberia. Men, women and children were forced from their homes with no warning. Transferred in cattle cars in freezing weather, many died on the way. Polish children who possessed Aryan-looking characteristics were wrenched from their mother's arms and placed in German homes to be raised as Germans.



http://www.warsawuprising.com/paper/jankowski1.htm

[Agrippa]

"Our strength is our quickness and our brutality. Genghis Khan had millions of women and children hunted down and killed, deliberately and with a gay heart. History sees in him only the great founder of States.

What the weak Western European civilization alleges about me, does not matter. I have given the order - and will have everyone shot who utters but one word of criticism - that the aim of this war does not consist in reaching certain geographical lines, but in the enemies' physical elimination.

Thus, for the time being only in the east, I put ready my Death's Head units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of the Polish race or language. Only thus will we gain the living space that we need. Who still talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians? "

That speech you constantly present to us in your signature is a proven fake!


Bei diesem Prozess kursierte eine weitere, offenkundig gefälschte Version der Rede, die sogenannte Dschingis-Khan-Rede (IMT-Dokument L-003). Sie enthält unglaubwürdige, besonders brutale und blutrünstige Redewendungen. Sie wurde in deutschen Widerstandskreisen erstellt, um die britische Regierung vor Hitler zu warnen. Diese Fälschung wurde auf Veranlassung von Generalstabschef Generaloberst Ludwig Beck an den britischen Journalisten Louis Lochner übergeben, der sie spätestens am 25. August 1939 an die Britische Botschaft in Berlin weiterleitete. Der Militärgerichtshof lehnte diese Version als Beweisstück ab.


Zu dieser Rede sind im Wesentlichen zwei Aufzeichnungen überliefert, die sie vollständig wiedergeben. Keine stellt allerdings ein wortwörtliches Protokoll der Ansprache dar.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansprache_Hitlers_vor_den_Oberbefehlshabern_am_22. _August_1939

It was fabricated by the German enemies of National Socialism and German national freedom to manipulate and "warn" the British. This version was rejected as a fabrication EVEN AT THE NUREMBERG TRIALS!

Even the other documents are not beyond doubt, considering the role of Canaris (who came in a concentration camp later for treason) and the presentation in the Nuremberg trials, as well as the fact that none of the notes has the original wording! Those are re-interpreted phrases open to manipulation.

If the quality of this quote stands for the quality and honesty of all things you say about "German crimes", the level is pretty low actually...

[Troll's Puzzle]

.................................................. ...

[Jarl]

Hans Frank:

"Once we have won the war, all these Poles, Ukranians, Russians and anything else that still may be roaming around here can be truned into mincemeat as far as I'm concerned, unless anyone else has any other ideas for them"

"In Prague, for instance, big red posters were put up saying that seven Czechs had been shot that day. I said to myself, if we had to put up a poster for every seven shot Poles, the forests of Poland would not be sufficient to provide the paper for such posters."

http://comicism.tripod.com/390822.html


Hitler makes a second address this day (notes): "It may also turn out differently regarding England and France. One cannot predict it with certainty. I figure on a trade-barrier, not on blockade, and with severance of relations. Most iron determination on our side. Retreat before nothing. Everybody shall have to make a point of it that we were determined from the beginning to fight the western powers. Struggle for life or death. Germany has won every war as long as she was united. Iron, unflinching attitude of all superiors, greatest confidence, faith in victory, overcoming of the past by getting used to heaviest strain. A long period of peace would not do us any good. Therefore it is necessary to expect everything. Manly bearing. It is not machines that fight each other, but men. We have the better quality of men. Mental factors are decisive. The opposite camp has weaker people. In 1918, the Nation fell down because the mental prerequisites were not sufficient.

Frederic the Great secured final success only through his mental power. Destruction of Poland in the foreground. The aim is elimination of living forces, not the arrival at a certain line. Even if war should break out in the West, the destruction of Poland shall be the primary objective. Quick decision because of the season. I shall give a propagandistic cause for starting the war, never mind whether it be plausible or not. The victor shall not be asked, later on, whether we told the truth or not. In starting and making a war, not the Right is what matters but Victory. Have no pity. Brutal attitude. 80,000,000 people shall get what is their right. Their existence has to be secured. The strongest has the Right. Greatest severity.

Quick decision necessary. Unshakable faith in the German soldier. A crisis may happen only if the nerves of the leaders give way. First aim: advance to the Vistula and Narew. Our technical superiority will break the nerves of the Poles. Every newly created polish force shall again be broken at once. Constant war of attrition. New German frontier according to healthy principle. Possibly a protectorate as a buffer. Military operations shall not be influenced by these reflections. Complete destruction of Poland is the military aim. To be fast is the main thing. Pursuit until complete elimination. Conviction that the German Wehrmacht is up to the requirements. The start shall be ordered, probably by Saturday morning."

[Jarl]

That speech you constantly present to us in your signature is a proven fake!


PROVEN??? By whom? German wiki?



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Hitler_Armenian_Quote.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_quote

The Armenian quote is a paragraph allegedly included in a speech by Adolf Hitler to Wehrmacht commanders at his Obersalzberg home on August 22, 1939, a week before the German invasion of Poland.[1]

The authenticity of the quote has been disputed. The key area of contention regarding the "Armenian quote" is a reference to the Armenian Genocide, an episode during World War I in the Ottoman Empire, during which an estimated one to one-and-a-half million ethnic Armenians were killed.[2][3][4] The authenticity of the quote has become hotly contested between Turkish and Armenian political activists. The quote is now inscribed on one of the walls of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C..



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Adolf Hitler's alleged statement about how the world forgot the Armenian GenocideThe Armenian quote is a paragraph allegedly included in a speech by Adolf Hitler to Wehrmacht commanders at his Obersalzberg home on August 22, 1939, a week before the German invasion of Poland.[1]

The authenticity of the quote has been disputed. The key area of contention regarding the "Armenian quote" is a reference to the Armenian Genocide, an episode during World War I in the Ottoman Empire, during which an estimated one to one-and-a-half million ethnic Armenians were killed.[2][3][4] The authenticity of the quote has become hotly contested between Turkish and Armenian political activists. The quote is now inscribed on one of the walls of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C..

Contents [hide]
1 Origin of the document
2 German and English wording
3 Contesting interpretations
4 See also
5 References
6 External links


[edit] Origin of the document
According to the American journalist Louis P. Lochner, while stationed in Berlin he received a copy of a speech by Hitler from his "informant", which he published (in English translation) in his book What About Germany? (New York: Dodd, Mead & Co., 1942) as being indicative of Hitler's desire to conquer the world. In 1945, Lochner handed over a transcript of the German document he had received to the prosecution at the Nuremberg trials, where it was labeled L-3. Hence it is known as the L-3 document.

The Times of London quoted from Lochner's version in an unsigned article titled The War Route of the Nazi Germany on November 24, 1945. The article stated that it had been brought forward by the prosecutor on November 23, 1945, (i.e. the previous day), as evidence. However, according to the Akten zur deutschen auswärtigen Politik (ser. D, vol. 7, 1961), the document was not introduced as evidence before the International Military Tribunal and is not included in the official publication of the documents in evidence. Two other documents containing minutes of Hitler's Obersalzberg speech(es) had been found among the seized German documents and were introduced as evidence; neither, however, contains the Armenian quote.

In Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression (colloquially also known as "the Red Set"), a collection of documents relating to the Nuremberg trials prepared by the prosecutorial team, the editors describe the relation between the documents concerned as follows:[5]

Just one week prior to the launching of the attack on Poland, Hitler made an address to his chief military commanders, at Obersalzberg, on 22 August 1939. [Three reports of this meeting are available: (L-3; 798-PS and 1014-PS). The first of the three documents (L-3) was obtained through an American newspaperman, and purported to be original minutes of the Obersalzberg meeting, transmitted to the newspaperman by some other person. There was no proof of actual delivery to the intermediary by the person who took the notes. That document (L-3) therefore, merely served as an incentive to search for something better. The result was that two other documents (798-PS) and (1014-PS) were discovered in the OKW files at Flensberg [sic]. These two documents indicate that Hitler on that day made two speeches, one apparently in the morning and one in the afternoon. Comparison of those two documents with the first document (L-3) led to the conclusion that the first document was a slightly garbled merger of the two speeches, and therefore was not relied upon.]
[edit] German and English wording
The third paragraph of the L-3 document is as follows:

Unsere Stärke ist unsere Schnelligkeit und unsere Brutalität. Dschingis Khan hat Millionen Frauen und Kinder in den Tod gejagt, bewußt und fröhlichen Herzens. Die Geschichte sieht in ihm nur den großen Staatengründer. Was die schwache westeuropäische Zivilisation über mich behauptet, ist gleichgültig. Ich habe den Befehl gegeben — und ich lasse jeden füsilieren, der auch nur ein Wort der Kritik äußert — daß das Kriegsziel nicht im Erreichen von bestimmten Linien, sondern in der physischen Vernichtung des Gegners besteht. So habe ich, einstweilen nur im Osten, meine Totenkopfverbände bereitgestellt mit dem Befehl, unbarmherzig und mitleidslos Mann, Weib und Kind polnischer Abstammung und Sprache in den Tod zu schicken. Nur so gewinnen wir den Lebensraum, den wir brauchen. Wer redet heute noch von der Vernichtung der Armenier?
The above is a verbatim rendering of that paragraph, as included in a footnote in the Akten zur deutschen auswärtigen Politik (ser. D, vol. 7, 1961, p. 193).

In his book What about Germany?, Lochner offered the following English translation of the document then in his possession:

Our strength consists in our speed and in our brutality. Genghis Khan led millions of women and children to slaughter—with premeditation and a happy heart. History sees in him solely the founder of a state. It’s a matter of indifference to me what a weak western European civilization will say about me. I have issued the command—and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad—that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness—for the present only in the East—with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks to-day of the annihilation of the Armenians?
—p. 11–12
A variety of different wordings have been published since World War II, mostly retaining linguistic accuracy nevertheless. The following tries to be closer to the original:

Our strength is our quickness and our brutality. Genghis Khan had millions of women and children hunted down and killed, deliberately and with a gay heart. History sees in him only the great founder of States. What the weak Western European civilization alleges about me, does not matter. I have given the order—and will have everyone shot who utters but one word of criticism—that the aim of {translator: this} war does not consist in reaching certain {translator: geographical} lines, but in the enemies' physical elimination. Thus, for the time being only in the east, I put ready my Death's Head units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of the Polish race or language. Only thus will we gain the living space that we need. Who still talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?



On the other side, Dr. Kevork B. Bardakjian, in a publication entitled Hitler and the Armenian Genocide, published by the Armenian-American Zoryan Institute for Contemporary Armenian Research and Documentation, argues that the L-3 document originates in the notes secretly taken by Wilhelm Canaris during the meeting of August 22, 1939:

To conclude, although its author is unknown, L-3 and its unsigned counterparts 798-PS and 1014-PS originate from the notes Wilhelm Canaris took personally as Hitler spoke on 22 August, 1939. ... Although not an “official” record, L-3 is a genuine document and is as sound as the other evidence submitted at Nuremberg.[7] The quote is now inscribed on one of the walls of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C..




WHO's disproven it???


According to the American journalist Louis P. Lochner, while stationed in Berlin he received a copy of a speech by Hitler from his "informant", which he published (in English translation) in his book What About Germany? (New York: Dodd, Mead & Co., 1942) as being indicative of Hitler's desire to conquer the world. In 1945, Lochner handed over a transcript of the German document he had received to the prosecution at the Nuremberg trials, where it was labeled L-3. Hence it is known as the L-3 document.

The Times of London quoted from Lochner's version in an unsigned article titled The War Route of the Nazi Germany on November 24, 1945. The article stated that it had been brought forward by the prosecutor on November 23, 1945, (i.e. the previous day), as evidence. However, according to the Akten zur deutschen auswärtigen Politik (ser. D, vol. 7, 1961), the document was not introduced as evidence before the International Military Tribunal and is not included in the official publication of the documents in evidence. Two other documents containing minutes of Hitler's Obersalzberg speech(es) had been found among the seized German documents and were introduced as evidence; neither, however, contains the Armenian quote.



More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Armenian_quote#This_article_based_on_falsific ation

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/A-Hitler-08-22-1939-at-Obersalzberg-on-extermination-of-the-Armenians.pdf

[Zyklop]

If the quality of this quote stands for the quality and honesty of all things you say about "German crimes", the level is pretty low actually...Has it ever been high?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=147483&postcount=49

[Agrippa]

The quote of Hitler sounds at least more real, can't say too much about the source, but:


Complete destruction of Poland is the military aim.

Well, that could be very well interpreted as the political-military enemy - the state of Poland, it says nothing about the destruction of the Polish people, especially nothing about any sort of physical destruction.

In the state of war, do you know what the USA, Great Britain, France, Soviet Union AND Poland said about Germany? Do you?

Much worse, much worse and in a way which can't be interpreted in a similar way, in a military context alone...

And about the "Armenian quote":

GenocideThe Armenian quote is a paragraph allegedly included in a speech by Adolf Hitler to Wehrmacht commanders at his Obersalzberg home on August 22, 1939, a week before the German invasion of Poland

Do you have to rely on "alleged" sources?

And after what I said, you can think about how valuable this "alleged" source is, it's a face, simple as that and was rejected EVEN at the Nuremberg Trials, were the judges were not really that picky about "proofs" for German crimes.

By the way, innocent German soldiers were exectued for the Katyn crimes which were perpetrated by the Soviet Bolsheviks.

This was also "proven" until it was "disproven" and we can all be very thankful that the Germans were able to investigate in this case, so that at least 50 years later the truth came up. Just imagine the Germans wouldn't have found the mass graves of Katyn and made no investigations, the Germans soldiers would have executed too most likely AND NOBODY would ever get to know the truth about the massacre on the Polish elite officers.

"Another German crime" in the annals of history...but AT LEAST IN THIS CASE the truth came up, because the Germans were able to investigate THEMSELVES.

History being written by the victors...

Yet even those victors have to keep a certain niveau usually, for being not totally noncredible. In your case this was forgotten many posts ago it seems...

[Jarl]

Has it ever been high?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=147483&postcount=49



Certainly not:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16915


Those 40 or so concentration camps were proven to be paper origami contructed by Jews and Allies... and the corpses were rubber....

[Zyklop]

Yet even those victors have to keep a certain niveau usually, for being not totally noncredible. In your case this was forgotten many posts ago it seems...

Many months ago, actually.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=162736&postcount=16

[Agrippa]

Those 40 or so concentration camps were proven to be paper origami contructed by Jews and Allies... and the corpses were rubber....

People died in various camps during the war, many because of starvation in a time in which supplies lacked or because of diseases. Many others were shot or killed otherwise.

But how can YOU know what these pictures show exactly and how these people died? Especially if they are very thin and haggard, isn't it more likely that they died because of a lack of supply - in a wartime nothing surprising - or diseases?

In fact, people which would have been shot or gassed immediately would be in a much better shape usually, unless they come from one of the few Ghettos which had worse conditions.

Just look at the people in the photograph which allegedly presents Jewish women which were shot - they were all well nourished, many rather fat actually.

Those corpses they show in the camps are usually very haggard though - so weak they couldn't have worked for sure nor were they killed immediately after being brought into the camps.

So even if those were Jewish prisoners and they died in a concentration camp, how do you know anything about the cause of their death?

Do you know how people with Cholera, Typhus and other infectious diseases look in a short period of time?

http://rehydrate.org/dd/img3/su521.jpg

I'm not saying mass killings didn't take place, I'm not competent enough to argue about that on a high level and I don't want it for many reasons, including legal ones.

Yet one thing is for sure, if you look at corpses on a photograph, some questions must be raised at least:
- Who made the picture
- What was the intention of the photographer
- Was the picture manipulated or even fabricated
- What does it really show
- Where was the picture made
- When was the picture made
- Who were those people
- What were the causes of their death
- What were the reasons for their situation and the outcome


etc., etc.

Unless you don't ask those question in a serious matter, any debate is fruit- and useless.

And not to forget: Critial thinking and a healthy suspiciousness is definitely a good trait, never underestimate that in a time of War and propaganda, lasting to this day, because in the end, the war is not over, the Plutocrats want go further and even further...

[Baron Samedi]

Kill faggots.

[Jarl]

And about the "Armenian quote":


Do you have to rely on "alleged" sources?

And after what I said, you can think about how valuable this "alleged" source is, it's a face, simple as that and was rejected EVEN at the Nuremberg Trials, were the judges were not really that picky about "proofs" for German crimes.

By the way, innocent German soldiers were exectued for the Katyn crimes which were perpetrated by the Soviet Bolsheviks.

This was also "proven" until it was "disproven" and we can all be very thankful that the Germans were able to investigate in this case, so that at least 50 years later the truth came up. Just imagine the Germans wouldn't have found the mass graves of Katyn and made no investigations, the Germans soldiers would have executed too most likely AND NOBODY would ever get to know the truth about the massacre on the Polish elite officers.

"Another German crime" in the annals of history...but AT LEAST IN THIS CASE the truth came up, because the Germans were able to investigate THEMSELVES.

History being written by the victors...

Yet even those victors have to keep a certain niveau usually, for being not totally noncredible. In your case this was forgotten many posts ago it seems...


Armenian quote might be controversial. Who disproved the "Polish quote"?



The quote of Hitler sounds at least more real, can't say too much about the source, but:

Well, that could be very well interpreted as the political-military enemy - the state of Poland, it says nothing about the destruction of the Polish people, especially nothing about any sort of physical destruction.

In the state of war, do you know what the USA, Great Britain, France, Soviet Union AND Poland said about Germany? Do you?

Much worse, much worse and in a way which can't be interpreted in a similar way, in a military context alone...


You read Hans Frank and Himmler? Seriously Agrippa... have a read:

http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/poles.pdf




GERMAN OCCUPATION POLICY IN POLAND

You know that within the Party the line which is gen- erally adopted is that our Polish policy consists of the deportation of the Poles, their destruction, , or their treatment as a mere source of labor. You are also aware that the policy has been largely put into practice.


Now, however, things are becoming tremendously complicated in this sphere. The problem arises above all from the fact that the Reich is being forced to transfer large sections of industry from the areas threatened by air attack to the General Government. On the other hand, there is a necessity to ensure the supply of local labor for the plants which are already in the General Government at all costs, to maintain the transport system and the whole administrative apparatus, and ensure the harvest etc. . . . .


It would be desirable if the Reich ministries, the Party agencies, and the territorial authorities could finally decide on a course of action. It simply will not do for some people to say all Poles of whatever sort will be exterminated, and for others to say all Poles of whatever kind, if they are fit for work, must be put to work. There is a complete contradiction here....


Should we exterminate or build things up, should the work be created here or in the Reich, should we give up workers or keep them here, should we let the Poles starve or should we feed them?






No, they were not going to spare the Poles...

http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/poles.php



THE INVASION AND OCCUPATION OF POLAND
German forces invaded Poland on September 1, 1939. Polish troops fought valiantly in the face of vastly better equipped forces, with fierce engagements around Warsaw. Exhausted of food and water, the besieged capital surrendered on September 27, and fighting by regular Polish army units ended in early October.

Hitler's pretext for military expansion eastward was the "need" for more Lebensraum, "living space," for the German nation. On the eve of the invasion he reportedly stated in a meeting of high officials:
I have issued the command and I'll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by firing squad-that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness—for the present only in the East— with orders to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space that we need.

In 1939 Germany directly annexed bordering western and northern Poland, disputed lands where many ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) resided. In contrast, the more extensive central and southern areas were formed into a separate "General Government," which was ruled by German civil administrator Hans Frank. Cracow became the capital of the General Government, as the Germans planned to turn the Polish capital of Warsaw into a backwater town. After Germany invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, Germany also seized eastern Poland. (This territory had been invaded and occupied by the Soviets in September 1939, in accordance with the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact of August 1939 that divided Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union.)

One aspect of German policy in conquered Poland aimed to prevent its ethnically diverse population from uniting against Germany. "We need to divide [Poland's many different ethnic groups] up into as many parts and splinter groups as possible," wrote Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS, in a top-secret -memorandum, "The Treatment of Racial Aliens in the East," dated May 25, 1940. According to the 1931 census by language, 69% of the population totaling 35 million inhabitants spoke Polish as their mother tongue. (Most of them were Roman Catholics.) Fifteen per cent were Ukrainians, 8.5% Jews, 4.7% Belorussians, and 2.2% Germans. Nearly three-fourths of the population were peasants or agricultural laborers, and another fifth, industrial workers. Poland had a small middle and upper class of well-educated professionals, entrepreneurs, and landowners.

In contrast to Nazi genocidal policy that targeted all of Poland's 3.3 million Jewish men, women, and children for destruction, Nazi plans for the Polish Catholic majority focused on the murder or suppression of political, religious, and intellectual leaders. This policy had two aims: first, to prevent Polish elites from organizing resistance or from ever regrouping into a governing class; second, to exploit Poland's leaderless, less educated majority of peasants and workers as unskilled laborers in agriculture and industry.

TERROR AGAINST THE INTELLIGENTSIA AND CLERGY
During the 1939 German invasion of Poland, special action squads of SS and police (the Einsatzgruppen) were deployed in the rear, arresting or killing those civilians caught resisting the Germans or considered capable of doing so as determined by their position and social status. Tens of thousands of wealthy landowners, clergymen, and members of the intelligentsia—government officials, teachers, doctors, dentists, officers, journalists, and others (both Poles and Jews)—were either murdered in mass executions or sent to prisons and concentration camps. German army units and "self-defense" forces composed of Volksdeutsche also participated in executions of civilians. In many instances, these executions were reprisal actions that held entire communities collectively responsible for the killing of Germans.

During the summer of 1940, the SS rounded up members of the intelligentsia in the General Government. In this so-called A-B Aktion (Extraordinary Pacification Operation), several thousand university professors, teachers, priests, and others were shot. The mass murders occurred outside Warsaw, in the Kampinos forest near Palmiry, and inside the city at the Pawiak prison.

As part of wider efforts to destroy Polish culture, the Germans closed or destroyed universities, schools, museums, libraries, and scientific laboratories. They demolished hundreds of monuments to national heroes. To prevent the birth of a new generation of educated Poles, German officials decreed that Polish children's schooling end after a few years of elementary education. "The sole goal of this schooling is to teach them simple arithmetic, nothing above the number 500; writing one's name; and the doctrine that it is divine law to obey the Germans. . . . I do not think that reading is desirable," Himmler wrote in his May 1940 memorandum.

In the annexed lands, the Nazis' goal was complete "Germanization" to assimilate the territories politically, culturally, socially, and economically into the German Reich. They applied this policy most rigorously in western incorporated territories—the so-called Wartheland. There, the Germans closed even elementary schools where Polish was the language of instruction. They renamed streets and cities so that Lodz became Litzmannstadt, for example. They also seized tens of thousands of Polish enterprises, from large industrial firms to small shops, without payment to the owners. Signs posted in public places warned: "Entrance is forbidden to Poles, Jews, and dogs."

The Roman Catholic Church was suppressed throughout Poland because historically it had led Polish nationalist forces fighting for Poland's independence from outside domination. The Germans treated the Church most harshly in the annexed regions, as they systematically closed churches there; most priests were either killed, imprisoned, or deported to the General Government. The Germans also closed seminaries and convents, persecuting monks and nuns. Between 1939 and 1945 an estimated 3,000 members of the Polish clergy were killed; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps, 787 of them at Dachau.

EXPULSIONS AND THE KIDNAPPING OF CHILDREN
The Germanization of the annexed lands also included an ambitious program to resettle Germans from the Baltic and other regions on farms and other homes formerly occupied by Poles and Jews. Beginning in October 1939, the SS began to expel Poles and Jews from the Wartheland and the Danzig corridor and transport them to the General Government. By the end of 1940, the SS had expelled 325,000 people without warning and plundered their property and belongings. Many elderly people and children died en route or in makeshift transit camps such as those in the towns of Potulice, Smukal, and Torun. In 1941, the Germans expelled 45,000 more people, but they scaled backed the program after the invasion of the Soviet Union in late June 1941. Trains used for resettlement were more urgently needed to transport soldiers and supplies to the front.

In late 1942 and in 1943, the SS also carried out massive expulsions in the General Government, uprooting 110,000 Poles from 300 villages in the Zamosc-Lublin region. Families were torn apart as able-bodied teens and adults were taken for forced labor and elderly, young, and disabled persons were moved to other localities. Tens of thousands were also imprisoned in Auschwitz or Majdanek concentration camps.

During the Zamosc expulsions the Germans seized many children from their parents to be racially screened for possible adoption by German parents in the SS Lebensborn ("Fount of Life") program. As many as 4,454 children chosen for Germanization were given German names, forbidden to speak Polish, and reeducated in SS or other Nazi institutions, where many died of hunger or disease. Few ever saw their parents again. Many more children were rejected as unsuitable for Germanization after failing to measure up to racial scientists' criteria for establishing "Aryan" ancestry; they were sent to children's homes or killed, some of them at Auschwitz of phenol injections. An estimated total of 50,000 children were kidnapped in Poland, the majority taken from orphanages and foster homes in the annexed lands. Infants born to Polish women deported to Germany as farm and factory laborers were also usually taken from the mothers and subjected to Germanization. (If an examination of the father and mother suggested that a "racially valuable" child might not result from the union, abortion was compulsory.)

The Zamosc expulsions spurred intense resistance as the Poles began to fear they were to suffer the same fate as the Jews—systematic deportation to extermination camps. Attacks on ethnic German settlers by members of the Polish resistance, whose ranks were filled with terrorized peasants, in turn provoked mass executions or other forms of German terror.

Throughout the occupation, the Germans applied a ruthless retaliation policy in an attempt to destroy resistance. As the Polish resistance grew bolder in 1943 after the German defeat at Stalingrad, German reprisal efforts escalated. The Germans destroyed dozens of villages, killing men, women, and children. Public executions by hanging or shooting in Warsaw and other cities occurred daily. During the war the Germans destroyed at least 300 villages in Poland.

FORCED LABOR AND TERROR OF THE CAMPS
Between 1939 and 1945 at least 1.5 million Polish citizens were transported to the Reich for labor, most of them against their will. Many were teenaged boys and girls. Although Germany also used forced laborers from western Europe, Poles, along with other eastern Europeans viewed as inferior, were subject to especially harsh discriminatory measures. They were forced to wear identifying purple P's sewn to their clothing, subjected to a curfew, and banned from public transportation. While the actual treatment accorded factory workers or farm hands often varied depending on the individual employer, Polish laborers as a rule were compelled to work longer hours for lower wages than western Europeans, and in many cities they lived in segregated barracks behind barbed wire. Social relations with Germans outside work were forbidden, and sexual relations with them were considered "racial defilement" punishable by death. During the war hundreds of Polish men were executed for their relations with German women.

Poles were prisoners in nearly every camp in the extensive camp system in German-occupied Poland and the Reich. A major camp complex at Stutthof, east of Danzig, existed from September 2, 1939, to war's end, and an estimated 20,000 Poles died there as a result of executions, hard labor, and harsh conditions. Auschwitz (Oswiecim) became the main concentration camp for Poles after the arrival there on June 14, 1940, of 728 men transported from an overcrowded prison at Tarnow. By March 1941, 10,900 prisoners were registered at the camp, most of them Poles. In September 1941, 200 ill prisoners, most of them Poles, along with 650 Soviet prisoners of war, were killed in the first gassing experiments at Auschwitz. Beginning in 1942, Auschwitz's prisoner population became much more diverse, as Jews and other "enemies of the state" from all over German-occupied Europe were deported to the camp.

The Polish scholar Franciszek Piper, the chief historian of Auschwitz, estimates that 140,000 to 150,000 Poles were brought to that camp between 1940 and 1945, and that 70,000 to 75,000 died there as victims of executions, of cruel medical experiments, and of starvation and disease. Some 100,000 Poles were deported to Majdanek, and tens of thousands of them died there. An estimated 20,000 Poles died at Sachsenhausen, 20,000 at Gross-Rosen, 30,000 at Mauthausen, 17,000 at Neuengamme, 10,000 at Dachau, and 17,000 at Ravensbrueck. In addition, victims in the tens of thousands were executed or died in the thousands of other camps-including special children's camps such as Lodz and its subcamp, Dzierzazn—and in prisons and other places of detention within and outside Poland.

POLISH RESISTANCE
In response to the German occupation, Poles organized one of the largest underground movements in Europe with more than 300 widely supported political and military groups and subgroups. Despite military defeat, the Polish government itself never surrendered. In 1940 a Polish government-in-exile became based in London. Resistance groups inside Poland set up underground courts for trying collaborators and others and clandestine schools in response to the Germans' closing of many educational institutions. The universities of Warsaw, Cracow, and Lvov all operated clandestinely. Officers of the regular Polish army headed an underground armed force, the "Home Army" (Armia Krajowa—AK). After preliminary organizational activities, including the training of fighters and hoarding of weapons, the AK activated partisan units in many parts of Poland in 1943. A Communist underground, the "People's Guard" (Gwardia Ludowa), also formed in 1942, but its military strength and influence were comparatively weak.

With the approach of the Soviet army imminent, the AK launched an uprising in Warsaw against the German army on August 1, 1944. After 63 days of bitter fighting, the Germans quashed the insurrection. The Soviet army provided little assistance to the Poles. Nearly 250,000 Poles, most of them civilians, lost their lives. The Germans deported hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children to concentration camps. Many others were transported to the Reich for forced labor. Acting on Hitler's orders, German forces reduced the city to rubble, greatly extending the destruction begun during their suppression of the earlier armed uprising by Jewish fighters resisting deportation from the Warsaw ghetto in April 1943.

CONCLUSION
The Nazi terror was, in scholar Norman Davies's words, "much fiercer and more protracted in Poland than anywhere in Europe." Reliable statistics for the total number of Poles who died as a result of Nazi German policies do not exist. Many others were victims of the 1939-1941 Soviet occupation of eastern Poland and of deportations to Central Asia and Siberia. Records are incomplete, and the Soviet control of Poland for 50 years after the war impeded independent scholarship.

The changing borders and ethnic composition of Poland as well as vast population movements during and after the war also complicated the task of calculating losses.

In the past, many estimates of losses were based on a Polish report of 1947 requesting reparations from the Germans; this often cited document tallied population losses of 6 million for all Polish "nationals" (Poles, Jews, and other minorities). Subtracting 3 million Polish Jewish victims, the report claimed 3 million non-Jewish victims of the Nazi terror, including civilian and military casualties of war.

Documentation remains fragmentary, but today scholars of independent Poland believe that 1.8 to 1.9 million Polish civilians (non-Jews) were victims of German Occupation policies and the war. This approximate total includes Poles killed in executions or who died in prisons, forced labor, and concentration camps. It also includes an estimated 225,000 civilian victims of the 1944 Warsaw uprising, more than 50,000 civilians who died during the 1939 invasion and siege of Warsaw, and a relatively small but unknown number of civilians killed during the Allies' military campaign of 1944—45 to liberate Poland.



In December 1942 Hans Frank advised mass-extermination of Poles as a solution to overburdened concentration camps... It's all in here, have a read:

http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/poles.pdf


http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/images/51597.gif

- One eyewitness of the kidnapping of children at Zamosc later recalled: "I saw children being taken from their mothers; some were even torn from the breast. It was a terrible sight: the agony of the mothers and fathers, the beating by the Germans, and the crying of the children." — Institute of National Memory


http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/images/17362.gif

- Some children ultimately rejected for Germanization were interned in the Dzieyzazn children's camp, where the mortality rate was very high.
— Institute of National Memory


http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/images/51182.gif


Expulsion of Poles from their village in territory annexed by Germany.
— Institute of National Memory





Account by a Mrs. J. K. of her expulsion to the General Government from the port city of Gdynia, part of the Polish lands annexed directly to Germany in 1939. This deposition appeared in the Black of Poland, a publication that chronicled Polish suffering under German occupation.

On 17 October 1939, at 8 A.M. I heard someone knocking at the door of my flat. As my maid was afraid to open it, I went to the door myself. I found there two German gendarmes, who roughly told me that in a few hours I had to be ready to travel with my children and everybody in the house. When I said that I had small children, that my husband was a prisoner of war, and that I could not get ready to travel in so short a time, the gendarmes answered that not only must I be ready, but that the flat must be swept, the plates and dishes washed and the keys left in the cupboards, so that the Germans who were to live in my house should have no trouble. In so many words, they further declared that I was entitled to take with me only one suitcase of not more than fifty kilograms in weight and a small handbag with food for a few days.


At 12 noon they came again and ordered us to go out in front of the house. Similar groups of people were standing in front of all the houses. After some hours' waiting, military lorries drove up and they packed us in one after the other, shouting at us rudely and also striking us. Then they took us to the railway station, but only in the evening did they pack us into filthy goods trucks, the doors of which were then bolted and sealed. In these trucks, most of which were packed with forty people, we spent three days, without any possibility of getting out. I hereby affirm that in my truck there were six children of under ten years of age and two old men, and that we were not given any straw, or any drinking utensils, that we had to satisfy our natural needs in the tightly packed truck, and that if there were no deaths in our transport it was only because it was still comparatively warm and we spent only three days on the journey. We were unloaded, half dead at Czestochowa, where the local population gave us immediate help, but the German soldiers who opened the truck exclaimed "What! Are these Polish swine still alive?'

[Agrippa]

You know too that many Poles worked together with the Germans and some even hated the Jews much more than the Germans actually - as the Kielce massacre after the end of the war has proven:


The Kielce pogrom was an outbreak of violence against the Jewish community of Kielce, Poland on July 4, 1946. It was perpetrated by a mob of local townsfolk[1], including police and soldiers[citation needed]. Following a false tale of child kidnapping, including allegations of blood libel[2] which led to a police investigation, violence broke out which resulted in 42[3][dubious – discuss] dead (39 Jews and 3 non-Jewish Poles), and 40 more injured.

Polish courts tried and condemned nine people to death for their crimes. The communist government of Poland sought to lay blame on Polish nationalists, especially the anti-communist partisans backing Colonel Anders and the Polish government-in-exile.[4]. Further investigation into the circumstances of the pogrom were inhibited by the communist government until the era of Solidarnosc, when in December 1981 an article was published in the newspaper Tygodnik Solidarność (Solidarity Weekly).[5] However the return of repressive government meant that files could not be accessed for historical research until after the fall of communism in 1989, by which time many eye-witnesses had died. It was then discovered that many documents relating to the pogrom had been destroyed by fire (in unclear circumstances) or deliberately by military authorities.[6]

For these reasons debate about the origins of the pogrom has remained controversial. Some claim it was a deliberate provocation by the communists to discredit the nationalists. Some claim that it was an anti-semitic event that was later exploited by the Government. Others accuse the Polish Roman Catholic hierarchy of passivity during the pogrom and its aftermath. The fact that a number of Jews held important positions in the Polish communist party also affected popular sentiment. The absence of clear documentary evidence complicates analysis.[7]

The deadliest pogrom against Polish Jews,[8] the incident was a significant point in the post-war history of Jews in Poland. The Kielce event took place only a year after the end of World War II and the Holocaust, shocking Jews in Poland, many Poles, as well as the international community. It has been considered a catalyst for the flight of most Jewish survivors from Poland.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielce_pogrom

Particularly interesting:

that files could not be accessed for historical research until after the fall of communism in 1989, by which time many eye-witnesses had died. It was then discovered that many documents relating to the pogrom had been destroyed by fire (in unclear circumstances) or deliberately by military authorities

Well, the Poles, the US of A, Great Britain and of course the Soviet Union, all could change their records, manipulate sources - the Germans couldn't, they couldn't even make independent investigations, that's why the victors write history.

Even your biased source says it:

Nazi plans for the Polish Catholic majority focused on the murder or suppression of political, religious, and intellectual leaders.

Of course, they would help the Polish elite to organise the resistance in a desperate war in which they could need more Polish attacks...

How many were really killed just because they were part of the elite and for no real actions or reprisals after assasinations and the like?

I guess not more than the Soviets just killed in Katyn ONLY and most likey much less!

That vast majority of Poles obviously died for one reason only:

In response to the German occupation, Poles organized one of the largest underground movements in Europe with more than 300 widely supported political and military groups and subgroups.

Don't want to know what the Poles would have done in the same situation. Even in Bromberg would have been an ethnic German uprising and a 5th column, the Poles harsh in all cases of resistance and they treated innocent German people and civilians like dirt in an animalistic manner.

Not all Poles of course, but it happened to many Germans. So they were just considered hostile, but does it wonder you?

Also you say that the Poles should be "exterminated" and that this program was already running or the like - how many Poles were killed deliberately in a context not related to assasinations, crimes, uprisings or the like?

Do you know? Real ethnic Poles I mean.

Yes they had to work - but ok, Germans had to work in various areas under allied control as well and many hundreds of thousands died in various "work and death camps", especially under Soviet control.

It was a fight for survival and most able-bodied German men had to fight, risk their life on the front, so the Poles and other people were just used to strengthen the fight against the Soviet Bolsheviks in particular. Forced labour, yes, but only because it was needed, needed desperately by the German people and economy. And even if it was no nice experience, surely not, I knew Poles which relatives worked for the Germans, well, no good time, for sure not, but they all survived, many Germans on the front not and many Germans in the hands of the Poles neither.

So what?

Not forgetting, that if the Poles would have agreed on a compromise, the whole world would have been different and the war probably even prevented, but the Poles wanted to conquer more of Germany and trusted in Western promises, which were just made to start the war to begin with - with the Americans being involved from the start in this scheme.

[Jarl]

Do you know? Real ethnic Poles I mean.


Agrippa, have you ever been to that country? The whole place is dotted with memorials, plaques and monuments... How many??? God knows! 12 000 murdered in Piasnica Wielka alone in September 1939, 150 000 -200 000 civilians alone in Warsaw Uprising.... How many more in Majdanek, Sobibór, Auschwitz (150 000), Dachau and Treblinka? God knows... 20% population, even if you not count the Jews in (which is odd coz they were Polish citizen anyway so whats the issue?), then it still a massive amount. Here is a recena article:

http://www.nto.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090828/REPORTAZ/545367516

5,4-5,8 mln according to National Rememberance Institute. I don't know how many MILLIONS are Jews and how many are Poles - the proportion changes nothing. It were still MILLIONS.

http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/images/50840.gif

A Polish priest, Father Piotr Sosnowski, before his execution by German Security Police, near the city of Tuchola, October 27, 1939.
— Institute of National Memory

"Poles may have only one master – a German. Two masters cannot exist side by side, and this is why all members of the Polish intelligentsia must be killed." –Adolf Hitler (1940)


http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/images/50069.gif


Polish women being led to a German execution site in the Palmiry forest, near Warsaw late 1939.
— Institute of National Memory

[Agrippa]

150 000 -200 000 civilians alone in Warsaw Uprising....

Well, more Germans died in allied air attacks. How many of those were innocent people shot just because they were Poles and for no other reason?


A Polish priest, Father Piotr Sosnowski, before his execution by German Security Police, near the city of Tuchola, October 27, 1939.
— Institute of National Memory

The Germans executed some German priests too, that was no crime against the Poles, but a political action. Also many Poles organised the resistance around the Catholic church, you know that very well.

Every German which did the same as the Poles, being active in hostile acts, would have been exectued or interned also.

Even more so actually, because of treason.


"Poles may have only one master – a German. Two masters cannot exist side by side, and this is why all members of the Polish intelligentsia must be killed." –Adolf Hitler (1940)

Source?


Polish women being led to a German execution site in the Palmiry forest, near Warsaw late 1939.
— Institute of National Memory

Again, how do you know for sure what the pictures are showing?

And if talking about the AB-Aktion, even if accepting the current historical status, this was an action to secure the peace in occupied Poland and not directed against the Polish people as such.


the causes of death of the Polish intelligentsia members in German captivity, are often contested by other European historians who dismiss a similarity with the Katyn massacres.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AB_Action

Even if going after the Polish sources, which seem to be highly overestimated, this was only a small portion of what the Soviets did Poland or what the Poles did to German people before, during and especially after the war.

In a situation in which these innocent German people posed no threat to the Polish nation of any sort, unlike Polish leading resistance elements during occupation to the Germans - which were mostly interned AND NOT KILLED deliberately.


God knows... 20% population, even if you not count the Jews in (which is odd coz they were Polish citizen anyway so whats the issue?), then it still a massive amount. Here is a recena article:

Jews are no ethnic Poles, that's it. And talking about citizenship and domiciles, who cared about that if it was about ethnic Germans? Nobody.

Citizenship is just a piece of paper and it's value being determined by the circumstances. What really matters is a person's status.

[Jarl]

Well, more Germans died in allied air attacks. How many of those were innocent people shot just because they were Poles and for no other reason?

The Germans executed some German priests too, that was no crime against the Poles, but a political action. Also many Poles organised the resistance around the Catholic church, you know that very well.

Every German which did the same as the Poles, being active in hostile acts, would have been exectued or interned also.

Again, how do you know for sure what the pictures are showing?

And if talking about the AB-Aktion, even if accepting the current historical status, this was an action to secure the peace in occupied Poland and not directed against the Polish people as such.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AB_Action

Even if going after the Polish sources, which seem to be highly overestimated, this was only a small portion of what the Soviets did Poland or what the Poles did to German people before, during and especially after the war.

In a situation in which these innocent German people posed no threat to the Polish nation of any sort, unlike Polish leading resistance elements during occupation to the Germans - which were mostly interned AND NOT KILLED deliberately.

Jews are no ethnic Poles, that's it. And talking about citizenship and domiciles, who cared about that if it was about ethnic Germans? Nobody.

Citizenship is just a piece of paper and it's value being determined by the circumstances. What really matters is a person's status.




Agrippa... dear me... :) My aim was not to open a race for the highest genocide bet. Seriously. I only wanted to remind a few people not to point their finger at others too often, trying to prove their sins if they themselves do not have a clear conscience.


The quotes, pics and facts from previous post are taken from the US National Memory Museum. Have a read. I don't doubt that Germans suffered under the regime too. It was the regime that in the end brought the downfall of Germans in the East.



And there is no doubt that the ultimate aim was to eradicate the Polish nation alltogether. General Government was to be a sort of "Indian reserve" where uneducated Poles would be kept for some time. There were mass expulsions, mass shootings (like in Piasnica Wielka), sending people to concentration camps in by 100s of 1000s, or to Germany's labour camps. Of course the total death toll will always be approximate. If numbers reach millions, then no 100% accuracy can ever be achieved.


These are deep waters, and wherever you place your net, you will fish something out. Have a read about the concentration camps, about Piasnica and similar mass-executions. About German occupation "laws". The civilian death toll was high.

Currently an online database is being prepared by the National Rememberance Intitute of civilians and people executed (by their surnames):

http://www.straty.pl/

The data will be verified. According to the Institute it's 5.4 - 5.8 mln. This is CIVILIANS. Poles make up some 2,4 mln according to Wiki.

[Guapo]

I want genocide of all muslims, jews, gypsies and niggers in Europe...I can't watch them anymore, destroying my country...

Your own people are destroying your country, that goes for Serbia and all other European countries. Enough immature scapegoating for fuck sakes people and start blaming ourselves.

[Agrippa]

Agrippa... dear me... :) My aim was not to open a race for the highest genocide bet. Seriously. I only wanted to remind a few people not to point their finger at others too often, trying to prove their sins if they themselves do not have a clear conscience.


The quotes, pics and facts from previous post are taken from the US National Memory Museum. Have a read. I don't doubt that Germans suffered under the regime too. It was the regime that in the end brought the downfall of Germans in the East.

The "downfall in the East" was the result of a lost war and a major cause for this war was the scheme of the Western powers and the Polish reluctance to accept a fair compromise.

Obviously the city of Danzig was a German town, even after international law it was disputed what happened there and large portions of Eastern Germany, which were just robbed by the Poles after World War 1, were predominantely German by all ethnocultural standards.

Not all areas, so one could have discussed those areas which were pred. Polish or at best made a fair vote of the people, region by region in a meaningful manner, to which state they want to belong.

Such a votum never took place and therefore it was about German people suppressed by the Polish state and even worse, the Poles refused any cooperaton with the Germans and to give back the city of Danzig.

Talking about the pre-text, the Poles themselves took their part of Czechoslovakia, so this was hardly a reason for either the Western powers or Poland to be hostile against the Germans neither, since they allied up with Poland, but made Germany an enemy.

The only problematic move of Germany in the East until the war broke out was the occupation of Czech territory and even that can be questioned and seen from many perspectives, because it was no easy situation in that area.

I would never say the Germans were "innocent", nobody is totally "innocent", it's all about interests and actions, but people can be innocent in a certain context and that was definitely true for the vast majority of Germans in the East.

They were not just displaced, but treated in an animalistic way, even days after Germans and Poles lived side by side and the Germans didn't do such cruel acts, with some exceptions, to the Poles.

But in the Polish territories, extreme cruelty happened practically everywhere and not just by some individuals or because of orders, but in a really malicious way.

That's part of the reasons why Germans can't forget that, it's not just about being displaced and the land robbed, the cause of the war and the cruel fights, but also this malicious treatment of helpless and innocent people - after the Germans treated the vast majority of Poles and Czechs not that good, but if considering the situation in an "ok manner" largely, especially on a personal level - not just talking about politics and military-police units from abroad, but the people in the neighbourhood.

Some even treated their neighbours better than the official policy recommended, but how did the Poles and Czechs thank it?

That's why it's hard to forget - they were soon defeated, but once they got a chance they treated the Germans extremely malicious. I know many cases which are just awful...

It's not just expulsion or the "clean killing" of some involved individuals, but real human sadism on the lowest level by the mob.

But you are right, it's a bloody history and war is hell. Most perpetraitors on either side died, yet one thing is for sure: As much wrong as the Germans did, the Poles and Czechs had no right whatsoever to treat the Germans like that, especially not normal people and neighbours which did nothing to them, often were rather fair considering the circumstances to non-Germans on a personal level, still they were treated like lowest animals once some lowest element Poles and Czechs got the chance to.

I say clearly "lower elements", because I know also of some Poles and Czechs in particular which regretted what this scum did to the German people in their area and not all participated in this cruel crimes.

Yet the mob situation was far more serious than everything which Germans did outside of a political or military action, which is close to nothing in comparison.

I mean, how often did common German people, without a clear reason or order, just like that, start to humiliate, rape, torture and kill Poles? I mean common people on the street, neighbours and simple people not in a "special context"?

When did Germans ever do such things? Very rare, very rare if ever...

[Jarl]

The "downfall in the East" was the result of a lost war and a major cause for this war was the scheme of the Western powers and the Polish reluctance to accept a fair compromise.


LOL! This made me laugh. A fair compromise??? After 5 years of war and genocide... you must be joking!


As for 1919 - what was unfair on Germany? Danzig??? Ok, but not much else.


Obviously the city of Danzig was a German town, even after international law it was disputed what happened there and large portions of Eastern Germany, which were just robbed by the Poles after World War 1, were predominantely German by all ethnocultural standards.

Not all areas, so one could have discussed those areas which were pred. Polish or at best made a fair vote of the people, region by region in a meaningful manner, to which state they want to belong.

Such a votum never took place and therefore it was about German people suppressed by the Polish state and even worse, the Poles refused any cooperaton with the Germans and to give back the city of Danzig.



All areas predominantly German remained in Germany - East Prussia, West Pomerania, most of Silesia (even though in parts German were minority). Even bits of Posen and West Prussia (Grenzmark). Greater Poland and Pomerelia were not German ethnoculturally and Germans were in minority in almost all the areas annexed into Poland. Rest became Grenzmark.

Dont forget that Prussian Colonial comisiion shipped in some 150 000 German into Posen WestPreussen within 30 years between late 1880s and WW I.




Talking about the pre-text, the Poles themselves took their part of Czechoslovakia, so this was hardly a reason for either the Western powers or Poland to be hostile against the Germans neither, since they allied up with Poland, but made Germany an enemy.

The only problematic move of Germany in the East until the war broke out was the occupation of Czech territory and even that can be questioned and seen from many perspectives, because it was no easy situation in that area.

I would never say the Germans were "innocent", nobody is totally "innocent", it's all about interests and actions, but people can be innocent in a certain context and that was definitely true for the vast majority of Germans in the East.



We had the discussion about Poland and Czechoslovakia. Its not that simple. The area was predominantly Polish and Czechs attempted to take it in spite of planned plebiscite. Both states felt into a conflict right in 1918 so Polish annexation in 1938 of already sapped Czechslovaka had no greater significance on relations.



They were not just displaced, but treated in an animalistic way, even days after Germans and Poles lived side by side and the Germans didn't do such cruel acts, with some exceptions, to the Poles.

But in the Polish territories, extreme cruelty happened practically everywhere and not just by some individuals or because of orders, but in a really malicious way.

Did not do cruel things???

Read about Polish minority in East Prussia and Silesia. How people were treated for the fact of being Polish. Really Agrippa, cruelty was hapenning long before that.

It was not Poland who could not make the deal. It was Germany who could not accept that Posen and West Prussia were for 1000 and 500 years respectively part of Poland with Polish majority.


That's part of the reasons why Germans can't forget that, it's not just about being displaced and the land robbed, the cause of the war and the cruel fights, but also this malicious treatment of helpless and innocent people - after the Germans treated the vast majority of Poles and Czechs not that good, but if considering the situation in an "ok manner" largely, especially on a personal level - not just talking about politics and military-police units from abroad, but the people in the neighbourhood.

Some even treated their neighbours better than the official policy recommended, but how did the Poles and Czechs thank it?

That's why it's hard to forget - they were soon defeated, but once they got a chance they treated the Germans extremely malicious. I know many cases which are just awful...

It's not just expulsion or the "clean killing" of some involved individuals, but real human sadism on the lowest level by the mob.

But you are right, it's a bloody history and war is hell. Most perpetraitors on either side died, yet one thing is for sure: As much wrong as the Germans did, the Poles and Czechs had no right whatsoever to treat the Germans like that, especially not normal people and neighbours which did nothing to them, often were rather fair considering the circumstances to non-Germans on a personal level, still they were treated like lowest animals once some lowest element Poles and Czechs got the chance to.

I say clearly "lower elements", because I know also of some Poles and Czechs in particular which regretted what this scum did to the German people in their area and not all participated in this cruel crimes.


Agrippa. Read about what was going on in Silesia and Masurenland in 1918 and during Nazi regime. You think innocent people did not suffer? Yes they did! And so they did in 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944 and 1945...

Yes. I have read many stories of what was hapenning in Pomerania or East Prussia. I posted some in here too. In every nation you do get "scum". I am not pardoning any crime. Whether commited by Poles or German.


What DOES make me feel concerned however is the fact that Germans NEVER recognised that whole Prussia was not German. And not every Prussian province was German ethnoculturally. Royal (West) Prussia and Silesia were not. Greater Poland was as Polish as one could be. Annexed by Prussia Germany as late as 1815/1848.

West Prussia? Formerly just Pomorze or Royal Prussia. by and large Polish until 1308, then German until 1454, then Polish until 1773/1793. By xxth century it was mixed, with interiror (Corridor) predominantly Polish and Danzig + some Vistulan towns German.


But even German censuses of 1905 show that West Prussia was Polish in majority.


Yet the mob situation was far more serious than everything which Germans did outside of a political or military action, which is close to nothing in comparison.

I mean, how often did common German people, without a clear reason or order, just like that, start to humiliate, rape, torture and kill Poles? I mean common people on the street, neighbours and simple people not in a "special context"?

When did Germans ever do such things? Very rare, very rare if ever...


Have a read of my "Pomorze, Pomerania, Pommern" thread. Ordinary people were perhaps involved too, but certainly much of it was due bands of marauding insurgents, Red Army deserters. The violence that occured was mostly soldier on civilians - both in case of German occupation or Red Army take over. I agree this civilian on civilian violence happened. But it did happen before and it was happening since WW I. Tensions were there since ever. And what would you expect after 150-100 years of German domination, germnisation, colonisation and land buying by Prussian colonial commisiion? People were fed up. Nationalisms were strong on both sides.

[Jarl]

I don't get the intention either. Zyklop posting an article about atrocities against German civilians after WW2

I was sure you will not get it... ;)


and Jarl, in his dislike for double-measure and finger pointing, justifies them by showing German atrocities beforeheand?

I am not justifing anything. I am only giving ppl a broader framed-picture than your Nazi POV could ever do. And sure! What does it matter what the Germans did beforehand?

What Germans did for 5 bloody years of WW II should have no significance for how the Germans were treated when they lost the war. None whatsoever. That's what probably the outraged Nazis thought while being expelled. The kind of "justice" they believed in.

[Agrippa]

LOL! This made me laugh. A fair compromise??? After 5 years of war and genocide... you must be joking!

I meant BEFORE THE WAR obviously, in the last trials for a peaceful solution - with a fair compromise like Danzig and a Prussian corridor, just for having a connection with East Prussia, even if it would have been just an extraterritorial high- and railway.

The only reason why Poland got the corridor was because the allies wanted to weaken Germany, Poland was aggressive and they argued Poland needed an access to the sea, the people in question were never a question and more than a million Germans fled from the "tolerant Polish state" because of the oppression.

Still Germany was ready to make a fair compromise!


In the period leading up to the East Prussian plebiscite in July 1920, the Polish authorities tried to prevent traffic through the Corridor, interrupting postal, telegraphic and telephone communication.[64] On March 10, 1920, the British representative on the Marienwerder Plebiscite Commission, H.D. Beaumont, wrote of numerous continuing difficulties being made by Polish officials and added "as a result, the ill-will between Polish and German nationalities and the irritation due to Polish intolerance towards the German inhabitants in the Corridor (now under their rule), far worse than any former German intolerance of the Poles, are growing to such an extent that it is impossible to believe the present settlement (borders) can have any chance of being permanent.... It can confidently be asserted that not even the most attractive economic advantages would induce any German to vote Polish. If the frontier is unsatisfactory now, it will be far more so when it has to be drawn on this side (of the river) with no natural line to follow, cutting off Germany from the river bank and within a mile or so of Marienwerder, which is certain to vote German. I know of no similar frontier created by any treaty."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Corridor#Impact_on_the_East_Prussian_plebis cite


The situation regarding the Free City and the Polish Corridor created a number of headaches for German and Polish Customs.[78] The Germans requested the construction of an extra-territorial highway (to complete the Reichsautobahn Berlin-Königsberg) and railway through the Polish Corridor, connecting East Prussia to Danzig and Germany proper. If Poland agreed, in return they would extend the non-aggression pact for 25 years.


In 1939, Nazi Germany made another attempt to renegotiate the status of Danzig;[77][83][84] Poland was to retain a permanent right to use the seaport if the route through the Polish Corridor was to be constructed.[83] However, the Polish administration distrusted Hitler and saw the plan as a threat to Polish sovereignty, practically subordinating Poland to the Axis and the Anti-Comintern Bloc while reducing the country to a state of near-servitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Corridor#Nazi_German_and_Polish_diplomacy

What Wikipedia missed to mention is the Western intervention. Great Britain in particular made it absolutely clear that if Poland would subscribe to such a treaty and alliance with Germany, it would be without any support, no matter what happens next and actually treated hostile, while if making Germany its enemy, it would get full support and the Poles thought they could conquer even more of Germany than what they already got!

There was definitely British pressure on Poland NOT to ally up with Germany and the Poles themselves were, anti-German and West-expansionist.


All areas predominantly German remained in Germany - East Prussia, West Pomerania, most of Silesia (even though in parts German were minority). Even bits of Posen and West Prussia (Grenzmark). Greater Poland and Pomerelia were not German ethnoculturally and Germans were in minority in almost all the areas annexed into Poland. Rest became Grenzmark.

Dont forget that Prussian Colonial comisiion shipped in some 150 000 German into Posen WestPreussen within 30 years between late 1880s and WW I.


If they were so sure about it and everything was so fair, why no official referendum for all regions under an international commission?


would you expect after 150-100 years of German domination

At least no inhumane rapes, torturing, murder, thievery, humiliation, destruction, treason etc.

I'm not saying Germans were angels, surely they were not, and there were conflicting interests, but to say Germans were the only ones to blame for the war and violence, especially in the case of Poland, is ridiculous.

[Jarl]

At least no inhumane rapes, torturing, murder, thievery, humiliation, destruction, treason etc.

Rapes or mass-murder were commited mainly by deserters or Red Army soldiers. I have not come across stories of Polish civilians raping or murdering German civilians, even though I have read many accounts. Certainly incidents like those did happen among civilians too. But they were relatively rare. They were also commited on pro-Polish Masurians or Silesians. However, from the accounts I read the main whirlwind came with the armies. That was the time most raping, pillaging and murder occured. Everywhere there were bands of marauders terrorising the countryside.

Polish settlers came onto German lands in several waves afterwards. Thefts, humiliation happened indeed. But it was there during occupation, during interbellum and during XIX century Prussian-German Kulturkampf too.


I'm not saying Germans were angels, surely they were not, and there were conflicting interests, but to say Germans were the only ones to blame for the war and violence, especially in the case of Poland, is ridiculous.


If we would really follow this string, it would take us back to XIX century and the Congress of Vienna 1815. Duchy of Warsaw was abolished. Or even further back to 1795 and the last division of Poland between Russia, Prussia and Austria. It was a spiral of injustice indeed. Action brought reaction, and opression brought retribution.

[Jarl]

I meant BEFORE THE WAR obviously, in the last trials for a peaceful solution - with a fair compromise like Danzig and a Prussian corridor, just for having a connection with East Prussia, even if it would have been just an extraterritorial high- and railway.

The only reason why Poland got the corridor was because the allies wanted to weaken Germany, Poland was aggressive and they argued Poland needed an access to the sea, the people in question were never a question and more than a million Germans fled from the "tolerant Polish state" because of the oppression.

Still Germany was ready to make a fair compromise!


That is a difficult judgement for an uninformed person like me. If compromise was possible I do not know. I'd love to believe that it was only about ex-territorial railway/highway... But was this really a matter of life and death??? It does not seem so to me. I know times were different and the tensions were very high. This was a rather strange ultimatum at that time.



If they were so sure about it and everything was so fair, why no official referendum for all regions under an international commission?


In Greater Poland, Poles took arms en masse since the situation here was extremely hostile and Germans were in clear minority. There was no referendum, but the Powers let Germany keep most of the areas with German majority as Grenzmark Posen-Westpreussen. A similar case occured in Silesia, where pro-Polish locals took arms. Here however the settlement was different. Most area stayed with Germany, including some regions with Polish majority. Many people from Silesia swapped sides. Pro-Polish went to Polish Silesia, pro-German to the German part.


West Prussia - Corridor is a different story. There was indeed no referendum and the case was decided arbitrarily by the Entente on tha basis of ethnic majority. Most of West Prussia was Polish and German majority was clustered in Vistulean towns - Gdansk/Danzig, Tczew/Dirschau, Starogard, Grudziadz/Graudenz etc. For Poland it was not only the last chance to hold on to this piece of land before its germanisation, but also of utmost strategic importance. More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Corridor


The decision was mainly due to:

- Polish ethnic majority

- strategic importance - acess to the sea


The country was extremely rural. Poland had to built a whole new harbour from scratch in Gdynia. Now definitely Germans lost some territory but for them it was mostly a matter of prestige. For Poland it was a matter of independence and viability - to which after 100 years of opression the nation had every right to...


It is true many Germans left the Corridor and Greater Poland after WW I, but on the other hand at least 150 000 came in there from mainland Germany as German settlers forcefully grafted onto Polish soil (grabbed from poor Polish farmers by the Prussian Colonial Comission).


Now you can't expect that people who actively participated in germanisation of the country, took land of expropriated Poles or beat the children in schools for speaking Polish would stay... They had to leave.


The country was in flames, people enraged. Greater Poland had to be freed by force, as the Germans would not give it up. Germany promised re-creation of the Kingdom of Poland in 1916, yet would not hold onto her promises. Ceratinly injustices were made. Not all the German families who had to leave were anti-Polish or champions of Kulturkampf, but this was the price they had to pay for living on a Polish soil that was occupied by Germans since 1815 - arena of germanisation and struggle between nationalisms.


I dont know how many left. But those 150 000 champions of Ostsiedlung filling their bellies and sitting on other peoples' property had to go. So did all the German troops, garrisons, soldiers and their families. Policemen, teachers, administration... But were they expelled? I don't think there were many forced expulsions after WW I. Most Germans left because of Uprising and fightings, later they did not want to live in Poland. Yet majority still remained.

[Agrippa]

Even the rather anti-German Wikipedia article states about the expulsion of German people in the East (not just Poland):

The movement of Germans involved a total of at least 12 million people, with some sources putting the figure at 14 million, and was the largest movement or transfer of any single ethnic population in modern history.


The events have been variously described as population transfer, ethnic cleansing or democide.


Many deaths were attributable to the flight and expulsions, with estimates ranging from 500,000 to 2.0 million, where the higher figures include deaths from famine and disease as well as from violent acts. Many German civilians were also sent to internment and labor camps.



Almost the complete male German population remaining east of the Oder and Neisse, numbering several tens of thousands, were arrested as "Hitlerists" by the Soviet secret police, NKVD.[67] Only a minority were Nazi party members.


Subsequently, most remaining Germans were expelled from pre-war Poland and the 'recovered territories' (formerly eastern Germany) to the territory west of the Oder-Neisse Line. Some, prior to their expulsion, were used as forced labor in communist-administered camps[40] such as those run by Salomon Morel and Czesław Gęborski. These included Central Labour Camp Jaworzno, Central Labour Camp Potulice, Łambinowice and Zgoda labour camp. Besides these large camps, numerous other forced labor, punitive and internment camps, urban ghettos and detention centres, sometimes consisting only of a small cellar, were set up.[76] Germans considered "indispensable" for the Polish economy were retained until the early 1950s,[76] though virtually all had left by 1960.[75] Close to 165,000 Germans were transported to the Soviet Union for forced labor, where most of them perished.[76] According to Reichling [80] 520 000 were transported, 185 000 of them died.


About the personal conduct of Poles:

Some engaged in looting and various crimes, including murders, beatings and rapes, against Germans

Source:

Matthew J. Gibney, Randall Hansen, Immigration and Asylum: From 1900 to the Present, 2005

Also:

In territories that belonged to Poland before the war, Germans were treated even more harshly than in the former German territories[62]. Deprived of any citizen rights, many were used as forced labor prior to their expulsion, sometimes for years, in labor battalions or in labour camps[63][64] such as Glaz, Milecin, Gronowo, Sikawa, Central Labour Camp Jaworzno, Central Labour Camp Potulice, Łambinowice (run by Czesław Gęborski), Zgoda labour camp and others. The death toll was between twenty and fifty percent[65], and as the guards were not paid regular salary they forcefully extracted their wage from the inmates


Zayas states that "in many internment camps no relief from outside was permitted. In some camps relatives would bring packages and deliver them to the Polish guards, who regularly plundered the contents and delivered only the remains, if any. Frequently, these relatives were so ill-treated that they never returned. Internees who came to claim their packages were also mistreated by the guards, who insisted the internees should speak Polish, even if they were Germans born in German-speaking Silesia or Pomerania


After the Potsdam Conference, Poland was officially in charge of the territories east of the Oder Neisse line. Despite the fact that article 8 of Potsdam agreement from August 2, 1945 stated that "population transfer" should be performed in ordered and humane manner, and should not commence until after the creation of an expulsion plan approved by the Allied Control Council, the expulsions continued without rules and were associated with many criminal acts.


Another problem the Germans and, to a lesser extent, even the newly arrived Poles were facing was an enormous crime wave, most notably theft and rape, committed by gangs not only consisting of regular criminals but also Soviet soldiers, deserters or former forced laborers (Ostarbeiter), coming back from the west[86]. In Upper Silesia, a party official complained about some Polish security forces and militia raping and pillaging the German population and a general loss of sense for right and wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_from_Poland_during _and_after_World_War_II

And this are just the rather objective to Anti-German descriptions of the mere facts, just hear victims of the atrocities and what the Poles and Czechs did to them and how many died...

Also with some "neighbour stories" - even though asocial scum, militias, Communists and Jews were highly responsible for the atrocities.


That is a difficult judgement for an uninformed person like me. If compromise was possible I do not know. I'd love to believe that it was only about ex-territorial railway/highway... But was this really a matter of life and death??? It does not seem so to me. I know times were different and the tensions were very high. This was a rather strange ultimatum at that time.

In fact, the Poles treated the Germans like the Israelis treat the Palestinians right now, thats really comparable.

The major difference is just that unlike the Palestinians, the Germans had a strong nation which could force the Poles to comply, if they don't want to.

The Poles didn't want to, like I said because they already planned the West expansion and Britain-USA wanted no German sphere of interest in all of Eastern Europe, but destroy it, because it was an independent power and freed itself from the plutocratic rule - no gold standard, no dependence from the international stock exchange, expanding trade and influence in America, Asia and especially East-South East Europe.

They wanted to destroy that German approach, "Nazi or not Nazi", "Hitler or no Hitler" - they wanted their Capitalist rule over the World and knew very well, that National Socialist Germany was a greater threat to them than Bolshevik Russia under Stalin.

That's it, or why else did they declare war only on Germany but not on the Soviet Union, even though the Soviet Union annexed and/or attacked Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Eastern Poland, Bessarabia etc...

And Poland was asked by Germany: Are you our enemy?

Of course it was also about Danzig and the corridor, that was a question of national pride and souvereignty, to get AT LEAST THIS! But as you can see, with this great and generous offer, Germany was ready for a fair compromise.

Poland said yes and that they will conquer Germany with the help of Great Britain and France. That's why the war started, because the Poles were abused to start the war with Germany - with little chance of success, though the allies thought Poland would make it some time longer and weaken Germany more...

As for the ethnic majorities: There are different statistics and many areas were definitely pred. German and directly at the German border, so that it wouldn't have been any problem to leave them with Germany.

The Poles just wanted to get as much from Germany as possible, regardless of the consequences or inhabitants!


The country was in flames, people enraged. Greater Poland had to be freed by force, as the Germans would not give it up. Germany promised re-creation of the Kingdom of Poland in 1916, yet would not hold onto her promises.

First of all: What was Poland before? It was a Russian province!

And the Germans finally helped the Poles to form their new state!

The Poles thanked it the way we discussed it - by taking away German lands!


Not all the German families who had to leave were anti-Polish or champions of Kulturkampf, but this was the price they had to pay for living on a Polish soil that was occupied by Germans since 1815 - arena of germanisation and struggle between nationalisms.

In the end, the Poles in Germany and Austria had a much better life than in Poland! And yes, the authorities wanted to make them "good Germans", many Poles are Polonised Germans too as well, but even though that was "not fair" to the Poles, the situation in the 1st World War was generally speaking not hostile to the Poles and with German help they founded their state - the rest...

If Pilsudski would have ruled Poland, chances would have been higher for a treaty between Germany and Poland, and peace secured between those two nations.
I'm pretty sure about that.

As for the German-Polish cooperation, compare with the Polish Legions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Legions_in_WWI

[Jarl]

Source:

Also:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_from_Poland_during _and_after_World_War_II

And this are just the rather objective to Anti-German descriptions of the mere facts, just hear victims of the atrocities and what the Poles and Czechs did to them and how many died...

Also with some "neighbour stories" - even though asocial scum, militias, Communists and Jews were highly responsible for the atrocities.

Sure. But you need to remember that all prisons all police forces in Poland were run by the NKVD. Some camps were run directly by the Soviets. Others by "Poles". Ultimately it was all totally steered from Moscow. Just like the whole country and the puppet government. Even within the "Polish Army", half of the officers were simply Russians.


And like it says:


Another problem the Germans and, to a lesser extent, even the newly arrived Poles were facing was an enormous crime wave, most notably theft and rape, committed by gangs not only consisting of regular criminals but also Soviet soldiers, deserters or former forced laborers (Ostarbeiter), coming back from the west[86]. In Upper Silesia, a party official complained about some Polish security forces and militia raping and pillaging the German population and a general loss of sense for right and wrong

Marauding bands of soldiers often terrorised both sides. Do you think there were no rapes or thefts in the East where Poles were expelled from? Poles filled the NKVD prisons too. In smaller proportions than the Germans, yet still substantial.


People like Geborski or Salomon Morel were pawns. The camps, the police the whole force was run by people like Bierut - people who have 20-30 year gaps in their biographies, several birthplaces and whom noone really knows where they came from. Or Moczar half Ukrainian Bolshevik and NKVD agent (finished his NKVD training in Gorky in 1941). Some like Rokossowski or Popławski could hardly speak Polish. In all cases they were trusted NKVD agents and Soviets.


Definitely there was enmity and there was unrest. After 5 years of war what one could expect? However I really do not think civilians were the main group involved in serious atrocities like murder or rape.





Polish 1st Army:

Almost 40% of officers and technical specialists were Soviets[1], while for command staff and training officers the proportion reached 70 to 85%.


You think the Soviets allowed any POLISH force to run lose without control? Don't be naive. They held the whole country tightly by the neck. AK soldiers were as ruthlessly persecuted as Nazis.


And in the end... the issue of borders and expulsions was decided by the big three. Mainly by Stalin who even sketched the maps by his own hand. And this was it. No matter what would then happen. This was the political objective given by the Politburo and it was no Moczar's or Bierut's role to ask question. Their role was to supervise it and do it. Or get a bullet in the head (which Bierut got anyway in the end).

[Wintersun]

Polacks suck.

[Äike]

Genocide is bad, my people have suffered from it quite recently.

[spearofperun]

highly effective dead men dont walk, dont talk, dont breed and they dont kill. Tolerance on the other look to the ex yugo and see what it gets you. instead of you being the one doing the genocide the oppostie happens your people get genocided.

as far a germans go they can kill all the jews and gypsys they want good for them. i applaud it. but when they started killing slavics retaliation is highly justified.

[AndreasMeyer]

I have read a certiain website advertised by Zyklop recently:

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archivesindex.html


But since I don't like double-measures and too much of shameless finger pointing at others... I think before we move to blaming lets carefully look at the whole image. Here is another thread from the series of inconvenient subjects, after "Polish concentration camps" and "Video of Czech atrocities":



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/Sgsmk8iuKeI/AAAAAAAAAaw/jMIKC7Lg_bE/s1600/A%2BGerman%2Bpoliceman%2Bshoots%2Bindividual%2BJew ish%2Bwomen%2Bwho%2Bremain%2Balive%2Bin%2Bthe%2Bra vine%2Bafter%2Bthe%2Bmass%2Bexecution.%2B(1942).jp g

A German policeman shoots individual Jewish women who remain alive in the ravine after the mass execution. (1942).


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/STrX4uGa-4I/AAAAAAAAACk/LMj-NOcCAN8/s1600/Ukrainian%2BJews%2Bwho%2Bwere%2Bforced%2Bto%2Bundr ess%2Bbefore%2Bthey%2Bwere%2Bmassacred%2Bby%2BEins atzgruppe%2Bdetachments.jpg

Ukrainian Jews who were forced to undress before they were massacred by Einsatzgruppe detachments.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/ShtMwcit-MI/AAAAAAAAAbI/vWu_LIcIOng/s1600/German%2Bpolice%2Band%2BUkrainian%2Bcollaborators% 2Bin%2Bcivilian%2Bclothes%2Blook%2Bon%2Bas%2BJewis h%2Bwomen%2Bare%2Bforced%2Bto%2Bundress%2Bbefore%2 Btheir%2Bexecution..jpg

German police and Ukrainian collaborators in civilian clothes look on as Jewish women are forced to undress before their execution


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/STrXl99sY2I/AAAAAAAAACM/xK1IPZEMIQk/s1600/Jewish%2Bwomen%2Bfrom%2Bthe%2BMizocz%2BGhetto%2Bin %2Bthe%2BUkraine,%2Bwhich%2Bheld%2Broughly%2B1,700 %2BJews.%2BSome%2Bare%2Bholding%2Binfants%2Bas%2Bt hey%2Bare%2Bforced%2Bto%2Bwait%2Bin%2Ba%2Bline%2Bb efore%2Btheir%2Bexecution%2Bby%2BGermans%2Band%2BU krainian%2Bcollaborators.jpg


Mizocz Ghetto Ukraine


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/STrXli-q38I/AAAAAAAAAB0/HV7c9z9W7UE/s1600/A%2BLatvian%2Bpoliceman%2Bleads%2Ba%2Bgroup%2Bof%2 BJewish%2Bwomen%2Bto%2Bthe%2Bexecution%2Bsite%2Bin %2BLatvia.jpg

A Latvian policeman leads a group of Jewish women to the execution site in Latvia.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_daUb0TxWVeU/STrW9gYz6bI/AAAAAAAAABs/JbLZOBhEDDU/s1600/A%2Bgroup%2Bof%2Bnaked%2BJewish%2Bwomen%2Band%2Bgi rls%2Bwalk%2Bto%2Bthe%2Bexecution%2Bsite%2Bon%2Bth e%2Bbeach%2Bnear%2BLiepaja.jpg

Liepaja, Latvia


http://www.schularena.com/geschichte/themen/fotos/zwischenkriegszeit_nationalismus/holocaust/MedExp01.jpg

Children in concentration camp


http://www.schularena.com/geschichte/themen/fotos/zwischenkriegszeit_nationalismus/holocaust/Pit.jpg


http://www.schularena.com/geschichte/themen/fotos/zwischenkriegszeit_nationalismus/holocaust/Maidan01.jpg


http://www.schularena.com/geschichte/themen/fotos/zwischenkriegszeit_nationalismus/holocaust/holocaust-child.gif


http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/ivangorod.jpg

German soldier shooting a woman with a child


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Bundesarchiv_Bild_192-208%2C_KZ_Mauthausen%2C_Sowjetische_Kriegsgefangen e.jpg


http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/25655-2/Russia-partisanen02


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Execution_of_Poles_by_German_Einsatzkomanndo_Oktob er1939.jpg

Execution of Poles by Einsatzkommando

And you verified those dubious pictures void of any probative value, right?

May I see how you've done that?