View Full Version : Caucasian Middle eastern peoples
I wanted to see how the majority of the users here view the Caucasian people of places like Lebanon, Syria, palestine, Iran, ect.
I know many people of middle eastern background who i would consider white/Caucasian from a racial perspective the same way many greeks and Italians are considered white.
there are many people from lebanon who can trace there direct anncestory to greek blood.
Also i find from a cultural perspective many Christian middle eastern people have alot in common with the people of southern Europe.
Does anyone agree?
I find alot of European whites make genral statements saying all people of the middl east are ((ARAB)) or Muslim when in fact there are many who could be considered caucasian and non arab and there still are millions who are christians.
nisse
07-01-2010, 04:10 AM
Where you live has a huge impact on who you are, like it or not. Having arab/muslim neighbours for centuries rubs off. That's when we are talking generalizations.
Nodens
07-01-2010, 04:11 AM
Don't go here, trust me.
yes but there are whites in places like the west indies, south and central america and africa who are still white and proud of there heritage and keep there ethnic distinctions strong,
I dont think you can write off a whole demographic of people.
Iknow many Christian phonecian Lebanese who are offended if you call them Arab or muslim, they are very proud of there distinction as Christian Phonecian people
Where you live has a huge impact on who you are, like it or not. Having arab/muslim neighbours for centuries rubs off. That's when we are talking generalizations.
its just a question man i know many people want to get all bright and feisty over things but i just wanted peoples opinion.
I am speaking of a certain group of people that can be found within the middle east that i have a interest in.
Don't go here, trust me.
nisse
07-01-2010, 04:19 AM
Iknow many Christian phonecian Lebanese who are offended if you call them Arab or muslim, they are very proud of there distinction as Christian Phonecian people
I know many Chinese people who are offended when you call them Chinese. So?
And the lebanese are notorious for trying to pass off for "white"...a friend of mine had one woman (bottle blond) trying to convince her that most lebanese are naturally blond :D (btw, this was essentially unprovoked, and we had to listen to a very long (and unbelievable) lecture).
you are speaking of Haka chinese and loas ect, those are ethnic groups, i am talking about racial distinction, what is an Arab? i am asking becuase what defines someone as Arab? from a racial stand point,
and what makes someone Arab from a cultural standpoint?
I know many Chinese people who are offended when you call them Chinese. So?
And the lebanese are notorious for trying to pass off for "white"...a friend of mine had one woman (bottle blond) trying to convince her that most lebanese are naturally blond :D (btw, this was essentially unprovoked, and we had to listen to a very long (and unbelievable) lecture).
Nodens
07-01-2010, 04:29 AM
its just a question man i know many people want to get all bright and feisty over things but i just wanted peoples opinion.
I am speaking of a certain group of people that can be found within the middle east that i have a interest in.
This is the type of discussion that is virtually guaranteed to turn ugly.
My take: They form a distinctly Semitic cultural group. 'White' is generally viewed as European (culturally) and Europoid (genotypically/phenotypically). So, regardless of their biology, they are not 'white' unless they were to assimilate into a European culture. Christianity does not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Orthodox) a white European make.
As to immigration, in reasonable numbers, the only objection I have to non-European Caucasoids is the frequently significant chance of Congoid or Australoid influence/admixture. And, of course, numerous cultural incompatibilities.
I say Christian because from a cultural perspective there is a distinction but also many people think one of the biggest problems with anyone from the middleast is islam and how it is seen as a threat to white culture.
This is the type of discussion that is virtually guaranteed to turn ugly.
My take: They form a distinctly Semitic cultural group. 'White' is generally viewed as European (culturally) and Europoid (genotypically/phenotypically). So, regardless of their biology, they are not 'white' unless they were to assimilate into a European culture. Christianity does not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Orthodox) a white European make.
As to immigration, in reasonable numbers, the only objection I have to non-European Caucasoids is the frequently significant chance of Congoid or Australoid influence/admixture. And, of course, numerous cultural incompatibilities.
Murphy
07-01-2010, 05:17 AM
They're not European.. but there are still the same race as we. Racialists should welcome them on bended knee.
Austin
07-01-2010, 05:54 AM
Towel heads shower twice a week and use lots of perfume. They are certainly not similar in culture on any level. I don't believe they are white really. The same with you Europeans anti-Jew thing even with the whites ones, I would apply the same to these "whites".
again this is a general statement, the people i know of middleastern background are very clean and when you say (( towel heads)) you are talking about muslims.
I made a distinction when i said Christian. I am not european and i am not against all jews. I sometimes wonder if there are jews that could be considered white but i know most wold not consider themselves as such for cultural reasons but that is another topic.
but lets say if someone from the middleast grew up removed from this culture could you then except them as Caucasian or having ((white)) traits?
Towel heads shower twice a week and use lots of perfume. They are certainly not similar in culture on any level. I don't believe they are white really. The same with you Europeans anti-Jew thing even with the whites ones, I would apply the same to these "whites".
Austin
07-01-2010, 06:50 AM
again this is a general statement, the people i know of middleastern background are very clean and when you say (( towel heads)) you are talking about muslims.
I made a distinction when i said Christian. I am not european and i am not against all jews. I sometimes wonder if there are jews that could be considered white but i know most wold not consider themselves as such for cultural reasons but that is another topic.
but lets say if someone from the middleast grew up removed from this culture could you then except them as Caucasian or having ((white)) traits?
Na not really I nor most would actually consider anyone from the middleast as white or at least not in a pure sense. My perspective though is the common one, I don't have a purist view of there being legitimate whites in the middleast though I know that the more serious would insist that there are.
As I see it anyone native to the middleast is not by any means white even if they are lighter than the others there, I don't see a visible relation even in such cases.
Used to go drinking with a friend from Saudi on a scholarship. He smelled terrible because he only showered like twice a week and when he'd go out he would pour on the cologne.
Yes i know i have met people from eastern regions that have a horrible smell as you mention but i never have encountered people with cleanliness problems from the middleast in places like the west indies who are born citizens, and all the those who have migrated to the west that i know are not unclean, but this is getting way off topic.
I said Caucasian. I dont want to get into semantics saying ((white))
no by american/northern european standards most all people would say they are non white, i am saying from a more of a racial scientific stand point could they be viewed as caucasian.
and i am speaking of a minority when i say non mixed Caucasian christians but they number in the millions.
Na not really I nor most would actually consider anyone from the middleast as white or at least not in a pure sense. My perspective though is the common one, I don't have a purist view of there being legitimate whites in the middleast though I know that the more serious would insist that there are.
As I see it anyone native to the middleast is not by any means white even if they are lighter than the others there, I don't see a visible relation even in such cases.
Used to go drinking with a friend from Saudi on a scholarship. He smelled terrible because he only showered like twice a week and when he'd go out he would pour on the cologne.
Austin
07-01-2010, 08:41 AM
Yes i know i have met people from eastern regions that have a horrible smell as you mention but i never have encountered people with cleanliness problems from the middleast in places like the west indies who are born citizens, and all the those who have migrated to the west that i know are not unclean, but this is getting way off topic.
I said Caucasian. I dont want to get into semantics saying ((white))
no by american/northern european standards most all people would say they are non white, i am saying from a more of a racial scientific stand point could they be viewed as caucasian.
and i am speaking of a minority when i say non mixed Caucasian christians but they number in the millions.
Oh yea no I hear ya, ask Agrippa he is da-bomb with that kind of stuff. Also I am the "a tight rope is a fair rope" type Christian not the progressive-moralist-all-inclusive type, more in the religious camp for cultural reasons than for rigid faith-adherence ones. I certainly don't believe in equality in the slightest or much of the dogma.
nisse
07-01-2010, 01:40 PM
you are speaking of Haka chinese and loas ect, those are ethnic groups, i am talking about racial distinction, what is an Arab? i am asking becuase what defines someone as Arab? from a racial stand point,
and what makes someone Arab from a cultural standpoint?
No, I am speaking of second generation Chinese-Canadian hipsters ;). When there are negative stereotypes assocaited with a particular ethnic group, you belong to it, but can make the case for not belonging to it (i.e. said hipsters or "white" lebanese) quite often you'll make that case and deny or try to lessen the links between you and that ethnic group.
I don't see the point of defining some sort of racial vs cultural distinctions between arabs and europeans, what would that give you?
Ibericus
07-01-2010, 02:18 PM
They are genetically very distinctive from the rest of europeans (northern or southern). They are semites, mid-easterns, So no, they are not european or 'white'.
Btw, are you Lebanese ? :rolleyes:
Beorn
07-01-2010, 02:25 PM
Towel heads shower twice a week and use lots of perfume. They are certainly not similar in culture on any level.
I didn't realise taking a shower and applying perfume was a cultural phenomena.
If this is the case I am a Towel Head. I am getting married in the morning.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/bloodylamer/bastardly-photos/0505/album49/samia-smith-12090602.jpg
Because again i am not speaking of Arabs? i am actually trying to figure out aht you consider an Arab. is it someone who speaks Arabic? is it someone of the middleast that is muslim who is dark skinned and has subsuharan black genes in there blood line or mixed with asian genes?
do you consider Greeks and Italians to be the same as Arabs? because in lebanon and other places there are those who have the same genetic make up as southern meds.
I have always been confused when people see all people of the middleast as Arab.
yes the majority of people in the middleast are non white and non Caucasian but I am speaking of those who racially look white/Caucasian.
No, I am speaking of second generation Chinese-Canadian hipsters ;). When there are negative stereotypes assocaited with a particular ethnic group, you belong to it, but can make the case for not belonging to it (i.e. said hipsters or "white" lebanese) quite often you'll make that case and deny or try to lessen the links between you and that ethnic group.
I don't see the point of defining some sort of racial vs cultural distinctions between arabs and europeans, what would that give you?
a chinese canadian may not be chinese from a ehtnic standpoint but is chinese from a racial stand point that has nothing to do with what i am speaking of.
[QUOTE=nisse;232455]No, I am speaking of second generation Chinese-Canadian hipsters ;).
no my my ethnic background is as stated on my profile,
I am asking because i know many people who are of lebanese, and other middleastern background who dont look much different from many people of southern european decent. And when i meet those who are of Christian backgrounds i dont see nay massive cultural difference between the my culture and there culture. Mind you i only know a few who have migrated from the middleast most everyone elese i know are from several generations born in the west
They are genetically very distinctive from the rest of europeans (northern or southern). They are semites, mid-easterns, So no, they are not european or 'white'.
Btw, are you Lebanese ? :rolleyes:
Ibericus
07-01-2010, 03:45 PM
because in lebanon and other places there are those who have the same genetic make up as southern meds.
well, this is not true. Just look at the autosomal genetic make up of lebanese compared to outher europeans (southern or not) :
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/46730767.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TBDgV2r3hxI/AAAAAAAACck/sYi1shNB8bc/s1600/westeurasianpca.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TA_tjcMrcnI/AAAAAAAACb0/iMP8YJM3D8E/s1600/pca.jpg
well good point. though let me share something less scientific this is from the article Caucasian race on wiki,
The term Caucasian race (or Caucasoid, sometimes also Europid, or Europoid[1]) (Not to confuse Northcaucasian race) denotes the race or phenotypes of some or all of the indigenous human populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia, and South Asia.[2][3]
In common use in American English, the term "Caucasian" (rarely supplemented with the word "race") is sometimes restricted to Europeans and other lighter-skinned populations within these areas, and may be considered equivalent to the varying definitions of white people. The term continues to be widely used in many scientific and general contexts, usually with its more restricted sense of "white", specifically White American in a US context.
so it seems there are different definitions on white depending on who you ask and i would not count many people of eastern background as white i am simply saying there is a portion who could pass for white or southern european based on there physical looks.
well, this is not true. Just look at the autosomal genetic make up of lebanese compared to outher europeans (southern or not) :
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Zyklop/46730767.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TBDgV2r3hxI/AAAAAAAACck/sYi1shNB8bc/s1600/westeurasianpca.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TA_tjcMrcnI/AAAAAAAACb0/iMP8YJM3D8E/s1600/pca.jpg
Ibericus
07-01-2010, 04:11 PM
Yes, but Caucasian is not the same as european or 'white'. Caucasian is based on anthropological classifications of the skull. Genetically, europeans form a sepparate cluster from non-european Caucasians, as you can see in the admixture autosomal study that I posted.
All good points and i agree with you that Caucasian is a very broad term and some people under the classification of Caucasian are not white.
But then why are there those on the middleast that look the same as many european caucasians?
Yes, but Caucasian is not the same as european or 'white'. Caucasian is based on anthropological classifications of the skull. Genetically, europeans form a sepparate cluster from non-european Caucasians, as you can see in the admixture autosomal study that I posted.
Bridie
07-01-2010, 04:23 PM
I wanted to see how the majority of the users here view the Caucasian people of places like Lebanon, Syria, palestine, Iran, ect. Scary foreigners. Weirdos. Savages. Too different to understand or form any kind of bond or connection with.... same goes for Asians, Africans, Australian aborigines etc.
I can see how you would feel that aborigines, Asians, Black Africans are very different from you in a physical way and cultural way but i never felt shocked by civilized refined middleastern peoples, I have never been to the middleast but I know its very savage and brutal there at this point in history in many of the countries located in that region,
Scary foreigners. Weirdos. Too different to understand or form any kind of bond or connection with.... same goes for Asians, Africans, Australian aborigines etc.
Ibericus
07-01-2010, 04:28 PM
All good points and i agree with you that Caucasian is a very broad term and some people under the classification of Caucasian are not white.
But then why are there those on the middleast that look the same as many european caucasians?
I have never personally seen a middle-eastern looking european, they are a minority, and probably due to european admixture.
Bridie
07-01-2010, 04:34 PM
I can see how you would feel that aborigines, Asians, Black Africans are very different from you in a physical way and cultural way but i never felt shocked by civilized refined middleastern peoples,
"Refined" isn't a word that comes to mind when I think of the Middle Easterners I've had contact with. With no exception, the men are sleazy, creepy, offensive and constantly engage in sexually inappropriate behaviours (ie, inappropriate touching and sexual aggressiveness). They don't understand us and we don't understand them... I'm sure this must be why the men consistently invade the personal boundaries of "Western" women and think they have every entitlement to do so.... it is the result of a clash of cultures (and a lack of respect on their behalf).
It makes me smile the fact that Iberia post those complicated graphs and tables and then say "can you see?" as if it were a simple subjetc that even children would get...
the first graph for instance , what does it mean?
what the numbers up mean?haplogorups or MtDNA?and wich ones?
As regards Middle Eastern people , they're mixed , since at least say 3000 years ago , those who show Caucasoid features probably don't come from an original uninterrupted line of Europid people but just have the luck to inherit those traits, that pop up here and there over the time according to DNA transmission rules.
We've gotta be careful , along with the cultural difference thing , probably the most integrable , both culturally and ethnically , are the christians from Lebanon-Syiria-Iraq.
your experince in Australia is something i heave heard alot about,
i think the problem is you are getting every kind of tom dick and ahkmed from the Middleast flood into your country.
I think the massive wave of low class has kept you from meeting the decent people of the middleast, where i am its much more exclusive and a different sect of middleastern people
"Refined" isn't a word that comes to mind when I think of the Middle Easterners I've had contact with. With no exception, the men are sleazy, creepy, offensive and constantly engage in sexually inappropriate behaviours (ie, inappropriate touching and sexual aggressiveness). They don't understand us and we don't understand them... I'm sure this must be why the men consistently invade the personal boundaries of "Western" women and think they have every entitlement to do so.... it is the result of a clash of cultures (and a lack of respect on their behalf).
This is the former prime minister of Jamaica he is half lebaneese and half scottish,
http://www.jis.gov.jm/special_sections/Independence/images/seaga.gif
I have never personally seen a middle-eastern looking european, they are a minority, and probably due to european admixture.
this is a pic of Nader. he is a political activist in the USA and both of his parents were from lebanon.
http://mrmodernguy.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/ralphnader.jpg
I have never personally seen a middle-eastern looking european, they are a minority, and probably due to european admixture.
Bridie
07-01-2010, 04:50 PM
your experince in Australia is something i heave heard alot about,
i think the problem is you are getting every kind of tom dick and ahkmed from the Middleast flood into your country.
I think the massive wave of low class has kept you from meeting the decent people of the middleast, where i am its much more exclusive and a different sect of middleastern peopleWell, that's a nice theory, but I don't think all of the Middle Easterners that I've come into contact with have been from the lowest classes. One of them was even some kind of Prince or something ("apparently" - in reality he was probably just some pompous, rich, spoiled Mummy's boy who thought it would be impressive hire body guards to follow him around). He too was disgusting.
Besides that, not all of the Middle Easterners that I've interacted with have been in Australia. I've traveled around a bit.
Ibericus
07-01-2010, 04:59 PM
It makes me smile the fact that Iberia post those complicated graphs and tables and then say "can you see?" as if it were a simple subjetc that even children would get...
the first graph for instance , what does it mean?
It's not that complicated. The first one is an admixture study based on Autosomal markers. You can see the Africans have mostly a Red component, then middle-easterns and north africans have the most green, purple and light blue component, Asians have the most yellow and light yellow components and so on. If you see Europeans have mostly the dark-blue component.
If you see the Lebanese, they fit with the rest of Levantines and their neibourhs (Syrians, Jordanians, Bedouins, etc)
what the numbers up mean?haplogorups or MtDNA?and wich ones?
No, it's autosomal dna. The numbers are the K plots. In the global dataset most of the major structure is observable already at from K=8.
nisse
07-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Because again i am not speaking of Arabs? i am actually trying to figure out aht you consider an Arab. is it someone who speaks Arabic? is it someone of the middleast that is muslim who is dark skinned and has subsuharan black genes in there blood line or mixed with asian genes?
a chinese canadian may not be chinese from a ehtnic standpoint but is chinese from a racial stand point that has nothing to do with what i am speaking of.
One answer to both comments: both Chinese and Arab (to me) are cultural and physiological. Being either culturally or physically associated with said regions would make you "Chinese" or "Arab".
so you are talking about Arabs. not the people in those photos that i posted because neither would fit the classification you are giving people of the middle east, neither of them speak arabic to my knowledge, both can pass as white from a physical stand point, and neither are part of the middle east culture and both are born citizens of western countries.
But yes they could be grouped into a certain middleastern clasification if they so wished or if others wish to classify them as such.
but a chinese born and raised in cannada who does not speak chinese has to be considered something other than chinese, from a ethnic stand point not speaking of racial physical difference.
One answer to both comments: both Chinese and Arab (to me) are cultural and physiological. Being either culturally or physically associated with said regions would make you "Chinese" or "Arab".
nisse
07-01-2010, 06:52 PM
so you are talking about Arabs. not the people in those photos that i posted because neither would fit the classification you are giving people of the middle east, neither of them speak arabic to my knowledge, both can pass as white from a physical stand point, and neither are part of the middle east culture and both are born citizens of western countries.
But yes they could be grouped into a certain middleastern clasification if they so wished or if others wish to classify them as such.
but a chinese born and raised in cannada who does not speak chinese has to be considered something other than chinese, from a ethnic stand point not speaking of racial physical difference.
There is a difference between "sufficient to exclude" and "required to include". If I were to define what is required to be, say, Ukrainian, I would say both blood and culture are a must. If I were to define what it takes to be non-Ukrainian, I would say lacking either. The foreign contribution than become the ethnicity of the excluded person. IMO this generalizes.
i.e. a 2nd generation Chinese-Canadian may not be Chinese to a Chinese, but is Chinese to an Anglo-Canadian.
As for the examples you gave, while their looks are debatable, I don't for a second believe that their parents didn't pass on *any* lebanese culture/traditions to them.
Well again i was more interested in talking about physical features than culture, but in the case of seaga, i would say he is as Jamaican as you can get when talking about the upper class elite of white background in Jamaica.
i can say both hold attributes that many of the Lebanese i know carry with them that includes very good business sense and they embrace education.
though in the case of nader he has alot of left wing politics and seaga is more conservative.
but yes i agree someone who looks diffrent than the general populace in the end is diffrent in other regards as well so i dont disagree with you on this point. Just because i live around black people does not make me like them just because i speak there language.
There is a difference between "sufficient to exclude" and "required to include". If I were to define what is required to be, say, Ukrainian, I would say both blood and culture are a must. If I were to define what it takes to be non-Ukrainian, I would say lacking either. The foreign contribution than become the ethnicity of the excluded person. IMO this generalizes.
i.e. a 2nd generation Chinese-Canadian may not be Chinese to a Chinese, but is Chinese to an Anglo-Canadian.
As for the examples you gave, while their looks are debatable, I don't for a second believe that their parents didn't pass on *any* lebanese culture/traditions to them.
spearofperun
07-01-2010, 08:56 PM
white= people of native european descent regardless of where in the world they live. middle easterners are definately not the same as europeans!!! arabic or not many of them look and act like arabs its the middle eastern mentatily jsut like evn though there are differences amoung the europeans there are still base similarities in look culture etc... except in europe the big difference is hair and eye color difference in the middle east the vast majoirty have uniform black hair and eyes
blan,
"White" Arabs aren't Europeans, end of story, so let's stop pretending that this is the case. This forum is for the PRESERVATION of European-descended peoples (and don't pretend you don't know what this means), not Arabs who get passed off as white by either themselves or as being some sort of vague governmental statistic.
theres no need for your hostility and accusations.
i was not pretending anything i was stateing facts and asking opinions, thats all your attitude is overly hostile without reason, yes i am well aware of what european preservation means and i was not wanting this internet forum to change there format. it was a question that dealt with people who have physical racial traits that many people of europe share and i was wondering what the racial connections and links are between the two if any.
blan,
"White" Arabs aren't Europeans, end of story, so let's stop pretending that this is the case. This forum is for the PRESERVATION of European-descended peoples (and don't pretend you don't know what this means), not Arabs who get passed off as white by either themselves or as being some sort of vague governmental statistic.
could you look at the two photos i posted and tell me what the biggest difference from a physical look those two men have in compared to europeans?
white= people of native european descent regardless of where in the world they live. middle easterners are definately not the same as europeans!!! arabic or not many of them look and act like arabs its the middle eastern mentatily jsut like evn though there are differences amoung the europeans there are still base similarities in look culture etc... except in europe the big difference is hair and eye color difference in the middle east the vast majoirty have uniform black hair and eyes
well i wont speak of theory but i will speak of my personal encounters and relationships however i am not a woman so your encounters are different than mine, personally i would not tolerate any man treating a woman in a bad manner.
but what you mention is not what i have seen with all males of middleastern background i know several that are gentlemen but i dont deny the mindset you speak of is common with many of them except for touching woman as you speak of but it does not shock me im sure many do this but it is not my experice with nay i know.
alot of countris that are less progressive than eropean based places men often treat women in a lower manner but this happens with many races including some whites of european background
Well, that's a nice theory, but I don't think all of the Middle Easterners that I've come into contact with have been from the lowest classes. One of them was even some kind of Prince or something ("apparently" - in reality he was probably just some pompous, rich, spoiled Mummy's boy who thought it would be impressive hire body guards to follow him around). He too was disgusting.
Besides that, not all of the Middle Easterners that I've interacted with have been in Australia. I've traveled around a bit.
Bridie
07-02-2010, 08:01 AM
well i wont speak of theory but i will speak of my personal encounters and relationships however i am not a woman so your encounters are different than mine, personally i would not tolerate any man treating a woman in a bad manner.
but what you mention is not what i have seen with all males of middleastern background i know several that are gentlemen but i dont deny the mindset you speak of is common with many of them except for touching woman as you speak of but it does not shock me im sure many do this but it is not my experice with nay i know.
alot of countris that are less progressive than eropean based places men often treat women in a lower manner but this happens with many races including some whites of european backgroundAh well, like I said, it seems to just be a clash of cultures. Misunderstandings. I'm sure many of these Middle Easterners watch American or European films, porn, music videos etc and come to the conclusion that all "Westernised" women are cheap trash that deserve no better than to be treated like whores. And you know, if I were Middle Eastern, I am SURE that I would come to the same conclusion. What can be expected with all the degenerative behaviour and generalised scum being portrayed "normal" and socially acceptable in the mass media these days? Any foreigners would be bound to think that such self-destructive behaviours, lack of manners, lack of integrity, rampant immorality and crude hyper-sexualisation are normal among Europeans and Americans (and other less significant post-colonial countries). And for the most part, they're probably right. Although it certainly wasn't always this way. In fact, it's relatively a very recent development.
We live in a day and age where for the first time in history, "ghetto life" is glorified and idealised by masses of brainwashed youth.
So I don't really blame those rude Middle Eastern men that I've encountered for their inappropriate behaviour actually... I blame modern pop culture and the powerful leaders of "the West" who are failing us all - especially the women and children.
Austin
07-02-2010, 09:35 AM
Ah well, like I said, it seems to just be a clash of cultures. Misunderstandings. I'm sure many of these Middle Easterners watch American or European films, porn, music videos etc and come to the conclusion that all "Westernised" women are cheap trash that deserve no better than to be treated like whores. And you know, if I were Middle Eastern, I am SURE that I would come to the same conclusion. What can be expected with all the degenerative behaviour and generalised scum being portrayed "normal" and socially acceptable in the mass media these days? Any foreigners would be bound to think that such self-destructive behaviours, lack of manners, lack of integrity, rampant immorality and crude hyper-sexualisation are normal among Europeans and Americans (and other less significant post-colonial countries). And for the most part, they're probably right. Although it certainly wasn't always this way. In fact, it's relatively a very recent development.
We live in a day and age where for the first time in history, "ghetto life" is glorified and idealised by masses of brainwashed youth.
So I don't really blame those rude Middle Eastern men that I've encountered for their inappropriate behaviour actually... I blame modern pop culture and the powerful leaders of "the West" who are failing us all - especially the women and children.
The middle east has no feminism and their women are respectful/respected......................................... .................................................. .................................................. ........................................the West has feminism and it's women are whored/disrespected internationally........hmmmm..........I wonder........
Bridie
07-02-2010, 10:42 AM
The middle east has no feminism and their women are respectful/respected......................................... .................................................. .................................................. ........................................the West has feminism and it's women are whored/disrespected internationally........hmmmm..........I wonder........
I think you must have a comprehension problem Austin. I just explained why "Western" women are often portrayed as whores, sometimes behave like whores and are widely disrespected (and unrespectable). Is it the feminist movement that controls mass media? I think you'll find that the ones in charge are (supposedly) govts and (most definitely) private enterprise (with govts often being funded by private enterprise.... so in a world where those with the money have all the power, it is the wealthiest companies that control the govts).
It was not feminism, per se, that led to the media driven demise of women (and as a consequence, all "Western" society). In fact, feminism played a minor role compared to commercialism, libertarianism, materialism, secularism and capitalism in opening the way for women (and men and children) to be used and exploited, often as commodities, in such a sick and destructive fashion all in the name of "meeting public demands in the market". And so, the lowest of the low in our populations and people's darkest, most destructive desires have come to shape our societies. Why? Because that's where the profits lay. Now we have destructive, degenerative "industries", such as the MASSIVE pornography industry, that could not exist if it weren't for private enterprise being given free reign to sell ANYTHING, (no matter how damaging it is) simply if there is a demand for it and they can make some cash.
We live in a time when the worship of money has replaced the worship of God. You cannot point your finger at feminism for all of that. Feminism helped to weaken the position of women, men and children... it acted as an aid to deconstruct traditional social organisation models... but it was just one of many tools that were used in the construction of the social, economic, political and spiritual nightmare that we see today.
And no, in the Middle East women are not respected.... it is just that they are not actively attacked if they completely submit to controlling patriarchal, misogynistic authority and if they remain invisible in the public sphere. Not being attacked if you submit is not the same thing as being respected, Austin.
all Caucasians need to strip away this modern media brainwash and get back to the more noble roots of our cultures.
Ah well, like I said, it seems to just be a clash of cultures. Misunderstandings. I'm sure many of these Middle Easterners watch American or European films, porn, music videos etc and come to the conclusion that all "Westernised" women are cheap trash that deserve no better than to be treated like whores. And you know, if I were Middle Eastern, I am SURE that I would come to the same conclusion. What can be expected with all the degenerative behaviour and generalised scum being portrayed "normal" and socially acceptable in the mass media these days? Any foreigners would be bound to think that such self-destructive behaviours, lack of manners, lack of integrity, rampant immorality and crude hyper-sexualisation are normal among Europeans and Americans (and other less significant post-colonial countries). And for the most part, they're probably right. Although it certainly wasn't always this way. In fact, it's relatively a very recent development.
We live in a day and age where for the first time in history, "ghetto life" is glorified and idealised by masses of brainwashed youth.
So I don't really blame those rude Middle Eastern men that I've encountered for their inappropriate behaviour actually... I blame modern pop culture and the powerful leaders of "the West" who are failing us all - especially the women and children.
Ibericus
07-02-2010, 04:41 PM
I think you must have a comprehension problem Austin. I just explained why "Western" women are often portrayed as whores, sometimes behave like whores and are widely disrespected (and unrespectable). Is it the feminist movement that controls mass media? I think you'll find that the ones in charge are (supposedly) govts and (most definitely) private enterprise (with govts often being funded by private enterprise.... so in a world where those with the money have all the power, it is the wealthiest companies that control the govts).
It was not feminism, per se, that led to the media driven demise of women (and as a consequence, all "Western" society). In fact, feminism played a minor role compared to commercialism, libertarianism, materialism, secularism and capitalism in opening the way for women (and men and children) to be used and exploited, often as commodities, in such a sick and destructive fashion all in the name of "meeting public demands in the market". And so, the lowest of the low in our populations and people's darkest, most destructive desires have come to shape our societies. Why? Because that's where the profits lay. Now we have destructive, degenerative "industries", such as the MASSIVE pornography industry, that could not exist if it weren't for private enterprise being given free reign to sell ANYTHING, (no matter how damaging it is) simply if there is a demand for it and they can make some cash.
We live in a time when the worship of money has replaced the worship of God. You cannot point your finger at feminism for all of that. Feminism helped to weaken the position of women, men and children... it acted as an aid to deconstruct traditional social organisation models... but it was just one of many tools that were used in the construction of the social, economic, political and spiritual nightmare that we see today.
And no, in the Middle East women are not respected.... it is just that they are not actively attacked if they completely submit to controlling patriarchal, misogynistic authority and if they remain invisible in the public sphere. Not being attacked if you submit is not the same thing as being respected, Austin.
Sorry, but Arab societies are more degenerated than us. To cover up a woman, because males cannot handle their sexual attractiveness is more sick and degenerated
again you are talking about muslims this was the point i was trying to avoid i really did not want to talk about culture but physical traits and not one person has even given the pics i posted any attention it simply comes back to ((all arabs are part of a savage culture)) i said Christian to make a cultural distinction and they are not required in there own faith to be covered from head to toe but it keeps getting way off topic.
I posted two pics of two men of Lebanese background, they appear to be white/Caucasian in my eyes. but as some here say that could be a result of european genes happening to hit them from mixture down there lineage though i would debate that point
Sorry, but Arab societies are more degenerated than us. To cover up a woman, because males cannot handle their sexual attractiveness is more sick and degenerated
Stefan
07-03-2010, 05:19 AM
Many of them aren't phenotypically divergent from European Europids. So in a sense, if "white" is to be used purely as a physically biological term, then yes they are of the same race as Europeans. Now if we were to get into specifics such as genetics, we'll find a difference in terms of affinities and clusters, but surely not one to make it racial, but more of an ethnic or macro-ethnic divide; although that depends a lot on which groups were to be referenced. So I think it is safe to say that many middle easterners are of the same biological race as European populations; or rather there has been ancient geneflow between the two regions of the world enough to make the people similar enough to be of the same race; however this forum is about ethnicity, and that is one requirement that is not suitable for many "Middle Eastern" populations. And considering how "White" is an ever-changing colonial word that originated as an ethnic description based off of racial distinction, but progressed to an ambiguous term that covers a wide-range dependent on the person; they are "White" or not depending on whom you ask. I'm sure if I asked my mother, who only sees people in these ambiguous terms like black, white, hispanic, etc; whether or not some Middle Eastern people are "white" she would probably say yes or no depending on the individual's phenotype. Anyway, that is getting besides the point. I could shorten this whole paragraph into one sentence "White they may be, but European they are not."
I agree with your statement 100 percent.
I guess that my question was answered some people see the few that i speak of as Caucasians with common physical traits as many europeans others do not for a wide array of reasons some people here have good reasons others do not simply because they are not aware of the middleast people who are of unmixed Caucasian background others do not see them as caucasian because they hate there culture so much and they assume all people of the middleast are muslims who follow the same cultural understanding as the ones they see flood there country or what the news media betrays them as.
its rare that all people agree on any subject anyways
Many of them aren't phenotypically divergent from European Europids. So in a sense, if "white" is to be used purely as a physically biological term, then yes they are of the same race as Europeans. Now if we were to get into specifics such as genetics, we'll find a difference in terms of affinities and clusters, but surely not one to make it racial, but more of an ethnic or macro-ethnic divide; although that depends a lot on which groups were to be referenced. So I think it is safe to say that many middle easterners are of the same biological race as European populations; or rather there has been ancient geneflow between the two regions of the world enough to make the people similar enough to be of the same race; however this forum is about ethnicity, and that is one requirement that is not suitable for many "Middle Eastern" populations. And considering how "White" is an ever-changing colonial word that originated as an ethnic description based off of racial distinction, but progressed to an ambiguous term that covers a wide-range dependent on the person; they are "White" or not depending on whom you ask. I'm sure if I asked my mother, who only sees people in these ambiguous terms like black, white, hispanic, etc; whether or not some Middle Eastern people are "white" she would probably say yes or no depending on the individual's phenotype. Anyway, that is getting besides the point. I could shorten this whole paragraph into one sentence "White they may be, but European they are not."
Bridie
07-04-2010, 12:50 PM
Sorry, but Arab societies are more degenerated than us. To cover up a woman, because males cannot handle their sexual attractiveness is more sick and degeneratedI don't think they cover them up because they can't handle their sexual attractiveness, but rather because they fear their wives, sisters and daughters will have extra-marital affairs should they be in possession of personal freedoms and be able to show their beauty to the world (and not just physical beauty either - remember that in Muslim cultures it is common for women to be barred from public life). So at a more basic level, it's due to Muslim men's own insecurities. If all the women are out of sight and mind, they feel secure and in control.
Germanicus
07-04-2010, 12:58 PM
I don't think they cover them up because they can't handle their sexual attractiveness, but rather because they fear their wives, sisters and daughters will have extra-marital affairs should they be in possession of personal freedoms and be able to show their beauty to the world (and not just physical beauty either - remember that in Muslim cultures it is common for women to be barred from public life). So at a more basic level, it's due to Muslim men's own insecurities. If all the women are out of sight and mind, they feel secure and in control.
From personal experience, the only women men can trust is their mothers, the rest of them will betray you...:(
Bridie
07-04-2010, 01:15 PM
From personal experience, the only women men can trust is their mothers, the rest of them will betray you...:(Finding someone you can truly trust and who loves you enough to never betray you or hurt you, no matter what comes to pass, is like finding the most precious of gems.... Rare and more valuable than anything else.
But that applies to females as well as to men....
From personal experience, the only women men can trust is their mothers, the rest of them will betray you...:(
We start talking about Middle Easterners and we end up in lack of fidelity... interesting.
For betrayal there is only one solution:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/pixmac-preview/axe-in-tree-stump-2.jpg
Ibericus
07-04-2010, 01:54 PM
I don't think they cover them up because they can't handle their sexual attractiveness, but rather because they fear their wives, sisters and daughters will have extra-marital affairs should they be in possession of personal freedoms and be able to show their beauty to the world (and not just physical beauty either - remember that in Muslim cultures it is common for women to be barred from public life). So at a more basic level, it's due to Muslim men's own insecurities. If all the women are out of sight and mind, they feel secure and in control.
Well that's already more degenerated than any western society..
Bridie
07-05-2010, 03:38 AM
Well that's already more degenerated than any western society..It's pretty dysfunctional, that's for sure.
I wanted to see how the majority of the users here view the Caucasian people of places like Lebanon, Syria, palestine, Iran, ect.
I know many people of middle eastern background who i would consider white/Caucasian from a racial perspective the same way many greeks and Italians are considered white.
there are many people from lebanon who can trace there direct anncestory to greek blood.
Also i find from a cultural perspective many Christian middle eastern people have alot in common with the people of southern Europe.
Does anyone agree?
I find alot of European whites make genral statements saying all people of the middl east are ((ARAB)) or Muslim when in fact there are many who could be considered caucasian and non arab and there still are millions who are christians.
Italians and Greeks like Lebaneses???
Don't make me laugh.
why are you laughing?? do you have anything more constructive to add or is that the best you got to offer?
Italians and Greeks like Lebaneses???
Don't make me laugh.
if you research you will find there was threw out history up to recent times migration from greeks into places threw out the middleast,
Italians and Greeks like Lebaneses???
Don't make me laugh.
San Galgano
07-15-2010, 12:25 PM
Well, that imply the fact that they are ethnically greeks or descendandts of the greeks.
There is a difference to claim out that Lebaneses are similar to greeks and italians.
Well, that imply the fact that they are ethnically greeks or descendandts of the greeks.
There is a difference to claim out that Lebanese are similar to greeks and italians.
I said some of them physically from a racial look but i did not say from a cultural perspective, i find the lebs i know to be not much different from me on a cultural level, we have the same religon, we like alot of the same music, we are both intrested in buisness, learning other languages, embrace education, ethnic pride, ect.
d3cimat3d
07-15-2010, 05:00 PM
Only Georgians, Armenians, and Azeris can pass as European in most cases. Those three countries are the Scandinavia of the Mid-east, with Azerbaijan being comparable to Finland because of the Asian admix. :D
San Galgano
07-15-2010, 08:06 PM
I said some of them physically from a racial look but i did not say from a cultural perspective, i find the lebs i know to be not much different from me on a cultural level, we have the same religon, we like alot of the same music, we are both intrested in buisness, learning other languages, embrace education, ethnic pride, ect.
Phisycally you can find lebanese people who cover a big spectrum of phenotypes, so yes some can look like some southern italians or greeks but it is not the rule.
From a cultural perspective you will find out that every young boy and girl of the world has more or less the same interests.
Who is not interested in learning language, meet people, travel the world and listen to music?
Curtis24
07-16-2010, 03:55 AM
The lack of geographical boundaries in the Fertile Crescent would mean that the area would become genetically homogenous, despite the number of numerous invasions throughout history. Think of what happens if you mix a bunch of colors together. The result is not diversity, but rather the creation of a single color. Any diversion from this single racial makeup would likely be in geographically isolated areas.
Carleton Coon's theories on the racial makeup of the Mideast reflect the above. Coon lumped the majority of people in Arab countries into the "Meditarranid" phenotype. Coon essentially argued that Arabs and other Mideastern people are the same basic racial type as Spaniards, Greeks, and Southern Italians. The exception would be the Turks, who are classified as mostly "Armenid", and the Iranians, classified as "Irano-Afganid". Interestingly, both Turkey and Iran are separated from the rest of the Mideast by geographical boundaries. According to this theory, Arabs are merely a variation of the Meditarranid race, and in fact the Arab invasions after the advent of Islam changed the racial make-up of the Mideast little.
Some scholars also argue that speakers of Semitic languages spread out of Arabia. Populations from Arabia thoroughly populated the rest of the Mideast(except Iran and Turkey) throughout the Bronze Age, correlating with the spread of Semitic languages. If this is true, than most of the populations of Arab-speaking countries were already racially similar to the Arabs, prior to the spread of Islam and Arab culture.
As to what extent I agree with the above, I am not sure. I think Coon and some other physical anthroplogists made a mistake in lumping everyone into the same "mediterranid category". Saudi Arabians do not look like Spaniards, for instance, yet both are supposedly to be basically Meditarrinid.
Too bad yall nasty niggas drove the sweet [Lebanese] Farah off of posting on the board (she lurks from time to time, which is a shame, since she's got more worth in one pinky than 10 self-professed Aryo-Hyperborean turds combined), otherwise we'd have an actual Middle Easterner who thinks of herself as caucasian and able to offer some firsthand imput. All that I can say for certain is that she once told me that the ME is more ethnically diverse than non-ME people think it is and that ME people don't get hung up on ethnicity and race like, say, Europeans and Americans do.
Curtis24
07-16-2010, 04:08 AM
Too bad yall nasty niggas drove the sweet [Lebanese] Farah off of posting on the board (she lurks from time to time, which is a shame, since she's got more worth in one pinky than 10 self-professed Aryo-Hyperborean turds combined), otherwise we'd have an actual Middle Easterner who thinks of herself as caucasian and able to offer some firsthand imput. All that I can say for certain is that she once told me that the ME is more ethnically diverse than non-ME people think it is and that ME people don't get hung up on ethnicity and race like, say, Europeans and Americans do.
Right, they get up hung up on tribal/religious divisions instead :P
Seriously, that makes sense coming from someone from the Mideastern upper class, but what are we to make of the hatred between Shiites and Sunnis, between Turks and Kurds, between Fatah and Hamas, between the Iranians and everyone else? Or that, with the exception of Egypt, the Arab countries are still politically organized on a tribal level? Europeans may get hung up on racial divisions, but they are not killing each other...
Right, they get up hung up on tribal divisions instead :P
Probably so, but not all of the people in the ME are so bronze-aged in their thinking. They have to lay low or else risk the ire of their cretinous fellows.
Curtis24
07-16-2010, 04:11 AM
haha, you're fast, read my reedited post :p
Right, they get up hung up on tribal/religious divisions instead :P
Seriously, that makes sense coming from someone from the Mideastern upper class, but what are we to make of the hatred between Shiites and Sunnis, between Turks and Kurds, between Fatah and Hamas, between the Iranians and everyone else? Or that, with the exception of Egypt, the Arab countries are still politically organized on a tribal level? Europeans may get hung up on racial divisions, but they are not killing each other...
Two world wars did that, to the body count of tens of millions.
many people are not interested in education or travel for reasons beyond making money, i know many people who do not want to learn other languages,
there are many people in this world who are willfully stupid and others who are just savage beyond reason.
my point was if you read the my older posts on this thread is on people who are not the general rule, i was not talking about the whole middleast i was talking about minorities within the region,
Phisycally you can find lebanese people who cover a big spectrum of phenotypes, so yes some can look like some southern italians or greeks but it is not the rule.
From a cultural perspective you will find out that every young boy and girl of the world has more or less the same interests.
Who is not interested in learning language, meet people, travel the world and listen to music?
thats why i make the distinction of christian arabs/christians of the middleast because they are culturaly different from the people in there home lands in many cases and it is evident of there difference because so many have been killed and run out over the past 100 plus years,
Right, they get up hung up on tribal/religious divisions instead :P
Seriously, that makes sense coming from someone from the Mideastern upper class, but what are we to make of the hatred between Shiites and Sunnis, between Turks and Kurds, between Fatah and Hamas, between the Iranians and everyone else? Or that, with the exception of Egypt, the Arab countries are still politically organized on a tribal level? Europeans may get hung up on racial divisions, but they are not killing each other...
Two world wars did that, to the body count of tens of millions.
not to mention the ottoman empire bent on destroying the christian populace
Curtis24
07-16-2010, 05:45 AM
Two world wars did that, to the body count of tens of millions.
True, but the fact remains that those two world wars did genuinely change and civilize European culture. Whereas, many Mideastern peoples have not been changed in such a way..
True, but the fact remains that those two world wars did genuinely change and civilize European cultthey at one time were, babure. Whereas, many Mideastern peoples have not been changed in such a way..
well at one time they were more civil and advanced that those of many parts of europe, the babylonians were on the top and were creating engineering that amazes people to this day,
babylon being modern day iraq
Curtis24
07-16-2010, 05:51 AM
True enough, and the Europeans were savage all the way up to WWII, but this doesn't change the current reality..
San Galgano
07-16-2010, 01:00 PM
many people are not interested in education or travel for reasons beyond making money, i know many people who do not want to learn other languages,
there are many people in this world who are willfully stupid and others who are just savage beyond reason.
my point was if you read the my older posts on this thread is on people who are not the general rule, i was not talking about the whole middleast i was talking about minorities within the region,
Ok then.
We were talking more or less about the same things.
Minorities of people(appearence), some interested in a large scale of interests for reasons beyond the mere money and some not.
not to mention the ottoman empire bent on destroying the christian populace
What's odd is that, a couple of centuries before, the Mongols were attempting to form alliances with the Christian kingdoms against the Muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Mongol_alliance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Mongol_alliance
"Franco-Mongol relations were established in the 13th century, as attempts were made towards forming a Franco-Mongol alliance between the Christian Crusaders and the Mongol Empire against various Muslim empires. Such an alliance would have seemed a logical choice: the Mongols were sympathetic to Christianity as they had many influential Nestorian Christians in the Mongol court..."
IIRC, one of the wives of the Great Khan himself was a Nestorian and several of his [many] soons also married Nestorians. Nestorians made a lot of headway along the old Silk Road, even establishing a presence in China during the Tang Dynasty. Temujin himself was a Tengrist, but he was very tolerant of other religions, but he did often claim that, when he trashed Muslim armies, that Allah was punishing them [the Muslims] by granting the Mongols victory. :rofl:
When conquering Muslims, Genghis Khan always announced that Allah willed the Mongol victory as divine punishment; to resist the Mongols was to defy the will of God.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-weather29dec29,0,1542169.story
Ibericus
07-16-2010, 01:14 PM
Carleton Coon's theories on the racial makeup of the Mideast reflect the above. Coon lumped the majority of people in Arab countries into the "Meditarranid" phenotype. Coon essentially argued that Arabs and other Mideastern people are the same basic racial type as Spaniards, Greeks, and Southern Italians.
Genetically, an Arab has nothing to do with spaniards or italians...
As to what extent I agree with the above, I am not sure. I think Coon and some other physical anthroplogists made a mistake in lumping everyone into the same "mediterranid category". Saudi Arabians do not look like Spaniards, for instance, yet both are supposedly to be basically Meditarrinid.
LOL, since when are Arabs mediterranids ?? Btw, the majority of spaniards are Atlanto-Mediterranids, Paleo-Atlantids,
San Galgano
07-16-2010, 01:56 PM
Genetically, an Arab has nothing to do with spaniards or italians...
LOL, since when are Arabs mediterranids ?? Btw, the majority of spaniards are Atlanto-Mediterranids, Paleo-Atlantids,
Indeed.
Coon also said that the last true mediterranean were to be found in Wales.
I found it difficult a welsh looking like a "mediterranean" of the arab peninsula.
i think many times the word mediterranean is over abused especially in old surveys and anthropological books.
Curtis24
07-16-2010, 03:18 PM
Indeed.
Coon also said that the last true mediterranean were to be found in Wales.
I found it difficult a welsh looking like a "mediterranean" of the arab peninsula.
i think many times the word mediterranean is over abused especially in old surveys and anthropological books.
I never said I agreed with him about Arabs being the same as South Europeans.
San Galgano
07-16-2010, 03:41 PM
I was agreeing with you and Iberia and the over abused "mediterranean" word by Coon.
Anyway i think he included many more Europeans than only southern ones in the "mediterranean" word.
Ibericus
07-16-2010, 04:01 PM
I don't believe there is such thing as 'mediterranean". Only because of dark-hair and dark complexion, somebody created this stupid subtype. An arab has nothing in common with an Italian/Spaniard /Welsh, both genetically and phenotype
I don't believe there is such thing as 'mediterranean". Only because of dark-hair and dark complexion, somebody created this stupid subtype. An arab has nothing in common with an Italian/Spaniard /Welsh, both genetically and phenotype
then why are there southern europeans that look like they could be from the middle east? and why are there those from the middle east who like like they could be from europe?
San Galgano
07-16-2010, 07:55 PM
then why are there southern europeans that look like they could be from the middle east? and why are there those from the middle east who like like they could be from europe?
The magical word we can apply is "SOME".
Some southern europeans
Some middle easterners
Some europeans in general.
Anyway where for SOME southern euros a middle eastern phenotype(i mean facial structure rather than skin colour)is an extreme phenotype and quite rare, in the middle east is the opposite, that is the western phenotype is more rare.
Curtis24
07-16-2010, 08:12 PM
I was agreeing with you and Iberia and the over abused "mediterranean" word by Coon.
Anyway i think he included many more Europeans than only southern ones in the "mediterranean" word.
He did include some light-skinned British and Spanish("Atlanto-mediterraneans"), as well as Ukrainians around the Black Sea area("Pontic-Mediterranean"). It seemed Coon used Mediterranid the same way we use Caucasoid or Mongoloid - to encompass a huge breadth of different races.
I honestly don't really know how the Arab "look" differs from dark-skinned Europeans. However, it makes sense that since the Arabs spent a long time geographically isolated from both Europe and the Mideast, they would develop very differently than any European and most Mideasterners. Of course this assumes that the theory of most Semitic speakers coming from the Arabian peninsula is false.
Ibericus
07-16-2010, 08:31 PM
I honestly don't really know how the Arab "look" differs from dark-skinned Europeans.
Are you fucking serious ?
Curtis24
07-18-2010, 05:19 AM
I believe there are differences, but I don't know enough to distinguish them. Its hard because most of the Arabs I've seen(mostly on television, I'll admit) were bearded, hence hiding many of their facial features.
Murphy
07-18-2010, 11:24 AM
Curtis, you are right to an extent. I personally consider Arabids another branch of the Mediterranid race. That doesn't make Spaniards non-European or Arabs European though.. because race isn't what makes Europe. The Spaniards could be coal-black negroes for all it matters.. they are one of the pillars of Europe.
Ibericus
07-18-2010, 02:56 PM
There is no such thing as "mediterranid race". Plus arabs are not in the mediterranean, they are Semites.
Murphy
07-18-2010, 03:13 PM
There is no such thing as "mediterranid race".
I believe there is a stronger case to be made for the Mediterranid race than most others.
Plus arabs are not in the mediterranean, they are Semites.
Arabs have been major players in the Mediterranean world for centuries, to deny they are a part of it is foolish.
Ibericus
07-18-2010, 03:16 PM
I believe there is a stronger case to be made for the Mediterranid race than most others.
Define me mediterrranid race, and relate it with genetics. Otherwise I dont believe in it...
rabs have been major players in the Mediterranean world for centuries, to deny they are a part of it is foolish.
What is Arab for you, the arabs live in the Arabian peninsula. The northafricans are not arabs, they are mixed with berbers. The levents are not arabs, they are a mix of ancient semitics and arabs. Its not that simple as to put all them in a bag called Arabs
Define me mediterrranid race, and relate it with genetics. Otherwise I dont believe in it...
What is Arab for you, the arabs live in the Arabian peninsula. The northafricans are not arabs, they are mixed with berbers. The levents are not arabs, they are a mix of ancient semitics and arabs. Its not that simple as to put all them in a bag called Arabs
thank you this is waht i have been saying all along.
but it seems most people think if you are from the middleast then you must be arab and muslim and with your culture and genes,
im shocked that after i specified the type of person i was talking about people continued on talking about arab this arab that muslim this muslim that.
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