Neanderthal: A Subspecies of Homo sapiens?

[DarknessInside]

Neanderthals are generally classified by biologists as the species Homo neanderthalensis, but a minority considers them to be a subspecies of Homo sapiens (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal)

The origin of Neandertals
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2752594/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14745010/

Who do you think? Your opinion?

[King Claus]

fucking fucktard

[Amud]

Most Neanderthals actually fall into the metrical and morphological range of modern humans, so they really can not be considered anything other than modern Homo Sapiens Sapiens. You will never find a Neanderthal fossil with any features or measurements that are not present in at least some modern humans. In fact, you can find humans alive today who have larger brow ridges than any Neanderthal, larger noses, larger cranial volume, larger facial dimensions, and so on. Neanderthals were not even at the "edge" of the range of modern human variation.

[Linebacker]

No,these theories are idiotic.

The Neanderthal is structurally completely different from the Homo Sapiens.Neanderthals were stubby,stocky with huge rib cages,massive skulls and bones overall.Homo Sapiens were the opposite,tall and lanky,with a much less powerful body and bone structure.

[Katie Karma]

No,these theories are idiotic.

The Neanderthal is structurally completely different from the Homo Sapiens.Neanderthals were stubby,stocky with huge rib cages,massive skulls and bones overall.Homo Sapiens were the opposite,tall and lanky,with a much less powerful body and bone structure.

This is the current problem. Neanderthals were different anatomically from H. sapiens yet they interbred with sapiens giving us non-Africans today. Usually when two divergent groups manage to breed they are considered the same species but then tell tale population artifacts result. There is a hybrid zone between the two groups. But, when more distant relative groups exchange genes, groups we call separate species, there is no hybrid zone and no usual mixing phenotypically. Here selection is rapid, selecting against all but very, very beneficial genes with all hybrids returning to one or both of the original groups. In our case the hybrids returned to the non-Neanderthal group.

There are a couple of new papers detailing just how different Neanderthals were morphologically, causing a reappraisal of the idea we were all one species. Here are treatments in the popular press.

The inner ear of Neanderthals were very different from ours in terms of balance and hearing. This article deals with hearing. Neanderthals heard sound differently than we do, perhaps hearing different ranges of sound. This points to a status as a separate species

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150327091845.htm

This deals with the production of nitric oxide in the sinus cavities of Neanderthals. Homo erectus and Neanderthals had very different sinus configurations than modern man. Theirs were much, much larger. It has been learned that within these sinus cavities nitric oxide is produced. Nitric oxide is now used by bodybuilders and athletes for an energy boost. This article is by an anthropologist who is not on board with the separate species theory. The original research (which I don't have now but have read) says the writers of that article believe Neanderthals and modern humans had a completely different energy basis.


http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/neandertals/anatomy/sinus_nitric_oxide_2006.html

[Black Wolf]

Neanderthals are/were not Homo Sapiens. Their DNA results prove it.

[Linebacker]

This is the current problem. Neanderthals were different anatomically from H. sapiens yet they interbred with sapiens giving us non-Africans today. Usually when two divergent groups manage to breed they are considered the same species but then tell tale population artifacts result. There is a hybrid zone between the two groups. But, when more distant relative groups exchange genes, groups we call separate species, there is no hybrid zone and no usual mixing phenotypically. Here selection is rapid, selecting against all but very, very beneficial genes with all hybrids returning to one or both of the original groups. In our case the hybrids returned to the non-Neanderthal group.

There are a couple of new papers detailing just how different Neanderthals were morphologically, causing a reappraisal of the idea we were all one species. Here are treatments in the popular press.

The inner ear of Neanderthals were very different from ours in terms of balance and hearing. This article deals with hearing. Neanderthals heard sound differently than we do, perhaps hearing different ranges of sound. This points to a status as a separate species

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150327091845.htm

This deals with the production of nitric oxide in the sinus cavities of Neanderthals. Homo erectus and Neanderthals had very different sinus configurations than modern man. Theirs were much, much larger. It has been learned that within these sinus cavities nitric oxide is produced. Nitric oxide is now used by bodybuilders and athletes for an energy boost. This article is by an anthropologist who is not on board with the separate species theory. The original research (which I don't have now but have read) says the writers of that article believe Neanderthals and modern humans had a completely different energy basis.


http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/neandertals/anatomy/sinus_nitric_oxide_2006.html

Those were some interesting facts,especially about the sinus cavity,I also have enlarged sinus bones,to the point where they are actually visible on my forehead.This is probably why I am always so energetic.

[Stimpy]

Well all these classifications like Homo Sapiens etc. predates actual genetics and are slightly vague. Human migrations, genetics etc. are extremely complicated and people who view it as this black and white thing without gray areas are naive. It's just that we're so obsessive with perfectly classifying everything.

There are people alive today, which if their skeletal remains were hypothetically found and dated to x thousand years old, they'd be classified as Neanderthal. Without genetic testing that is.

[coolstorybro]

If a Negro is Homo Sapiens then a Neanderthal certainly is too.

[Stimpy]

If a Negro is Homo Sapiens then a Neanderthal certainly is too.

Even the most negroid negro you can find is closer to you genetically than any neanderthal (at least the ones tested). However that all modern humans in the world could be classified as Homo Sapiens Sapiens (notice the last sapiens), is ridiculous and unscientific.

[Amud]

This Native American man has a skull that could be classified as Neanderthal rather than as anatomically modern.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/50911/small/LPLP_2_117.jpg?1380404428

[coolstorybro]

Valuev is probably the best example of a living neanderthal:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01470/nikolia-valuev_1470003c.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/staticarchive/9d1a380f2e56f4c2c85c59212b055247261233da.jpg